good day 37. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. in virginia an outpouring of

anger, frustration and pain as parents plea for help and demand changes after a 6-year-old shot his teacher in the middle of class. >> i send my kids to school and find myself praying to god they will return home safely. >> we'll ask if there's any way to reduce number of school shootings that are up tenfold in the past ten years. in ukraine, key government officials including some helping run the war, killed in a helicopter crash. the tragedy compounded by more victims on the ground including parents taking their kids to school. and the stunning lengths some families have to glo after their water supply was cut off. skipping showers, flushing toilets with rain water and more. my live interview with the the head of one family trying to make it work, later in the show. but we begin with that incredibly intense and emotional school board meeting in newport

news, virginia. it's the first since the 6 sheerld shot his teacher. several hundred parents showed up filling the main room, several overflow rooms filled as well, taking turns lashing out at the school and president board for failing to keep their kids safe. some were in tears as they pleaded for answers that the entire country has unable to answer. >> what are our government officials doing for us? what are y'all doing for us? >> i am disgraced. i am disgusted. and i am exhausted. >> i don't feel comfortable in hi own school. it's gotten to the point i'm purchasing a bullet proof insert for my backpack. >> i don't want to have a family dinner where i talk about where my kids will hide in their school. >> what will it take? i pray it's not a fourth shooting. because that blood will be on your hands.

>> some of us, scared. some of us, angry. some of us, trying to figure out don't think i want this job anymore. >> i personally demand that the tears of all the students scared to go through the day and the system that you are charged with protecting will haunt you until you make this right. >> i have a 4-year-old, a 6-year-old who cannot effectively hide i love them to bits and pieces, but when you have children who think you can't see them when they are under a blanket, how are they going to be able to survive these situations. >> those parents aren't alone. go back to 2013 and there were about 30 to 40 school shootings in k-12 every year. that has skyrocketed. now more than 300 last year. that's not counting more than a dozen so far this year. josh sugarman is the executive director of the vie listens policy center, and joe walsh is a former congressman from illinois. i saw one article about that

meeting describing it as a mass catharsis. there has been a sense many times notably in town that things will change. do you see any sign that a 6-year-old with a gun or these emotional pleas from parents last night will change anything? >> unfortunately, things will not change until we focus on the gun industry itself looking at the guns they are marketing, who they are marketing them to, and that's when we'll start having real change. unfortunately, we saw in virginia what's played across this country day in and day out. that's the price we're paying for how they are marketing weapons. >> whether it's a belief in the right for people to have guns in lots of different circumstances, or whether it's an acknowledgment that trying to get that change hasn't worked, they are talking about other

things. in virginia they are talking about installing metal detech torss. it costs to staff them and how it might impact the kids' psyches and more training for teachers. is there any indication that kind of thing can work? >> all those measures have impact. we have seen that as cross the country. until we look upstream to the industry itself, we're all just paying the price on a daily basis. we have to stop making children pay the price for the gun industry's marketing efforts the types of guns they are marketing. we have to look at the end of the line and look at the people who are causing the problem. that's the firearms industry and how it exploits the lack of health and safety regulation in this nation. >> i know you're an advocate of gun rights, but you have also said that our gun laws won't change until responsible gun owners like me get up, get organized, get mobilized and pressure republicans. so you have a 6-year-old

shooting a teacher. there was also this video that's gone viral. a 4-year-old with a loaded gun in an apartment hallway. what's the definition of responsible here? do there have to be laws about securing weapons around children? tell me what's responsible gun ownership looks like. >> start here. think about what we are talking about right now. in america last week, a 6-year-old walked into his classroom with a gun and shot his teacher. a 6-year-old. i am as strident a gun rights advocate, but if that doesn't get me and every gun owner in this country to pause and to think and to say, oh my god, we have to look at everything. i agree with josh. you listen to those parents. metal detectors, more security

at school, more discipline for the kids, that all matters. but we have to look at the gun too. josh is right. look at this case. here's something that 6-year-old's mother legally purchased that gun. how aubt liability for an adult for negligent storage of that firearm when a minor is there. it's moments like this where we could sit down and find two to three things we agree on. >> let me see if there's another one. you mentioned the guns that are being marketed by the industry. and against this backdrop, you have this company called we won marketing child-sized assault rifles. and it's an ar-15 style assault rifle. it's made for kids. they call it a jr-15. it's being marked for gun marketers in las vegas. we reached out to the company.

they did not get back to us. it has actually in that gun a skull and the skull is wearing a pacifier. put into context for us, if you can, a world in which this is being marketed toward a child or toward the parent of a child. >> i think you need to focus on what you said. we're talking about marketing a gun designed for the military to use in warfare that is now being marketed to children. in the original marketing for the jr-15, the company said it's just like mom and dad's gun. and as you may know, this gun originally was marketed with cartoons of skull and bones of kids with it being to be an edgy campaign to create the wow factor with the kids.

after national revulsion, this happened last year. they came out with a kinder, gentler version of their advertising campaign. but what's happened is it's still the same gun that is used across this country in mass shootings. the adult version. now we're talking about putting this gun into the hands of children. once again, i think this is an area that we could agree on that you should not be marketing guns to children directly and certainly not assault rifles. >> i went on to the website. one of the questions that it asked was can you buy magazines for this little kids ar. it said, yes. it said which kinds of magazines you could buy. do you think this is an area of agreement, does any child need this weapon? >> i do think it's a potential area of agreement. i'm weirdly pretty optimistic when it comes to gun safety

reform. i work with an organization called 97% u.s. responsible gun owners, what they would support. and i think josh would agree, if we focus on doing everything we can do up front to make sure somebody who shouldn't have a gun doesn't get a gun, universal background checks, mandating permitting and training for people who conceal carry. i agree. looking at this marketing to kids, i really do believe the vast majority of gun owners like me want to sit at that table and discuss these reforms. i really do. >> let's hope it happens. congressman, you're going to stay with me. josh, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today. now to congress, where among the members with important new committee assignments is marjorie taylor greene, who once claimed that some school shootings were staged. she is one of several far right

conservatives and election deniers, including scott perry, lauren boebert, mark green, byron donalds, all given coveted committee assignments, many believe to be in exchange for backing kevin mccarthy as speaker. ali vitali is on capitol hill. congressman walsh is still with us. ali, how do you see these conservatives changing the way business gets done or what gets done on capitol hill? >> reporter: there's a lesson to be learned from this too. you can go and challenge, at that point, likely speaker, now current speaker kevin mccarthy, and not face any retribution when it comes to being on these committees. that was baked into the negotiating cake a few weeks ago when the conservative holdouts were negotiating with the camp and allies. the fact that they are on these committees is important from that perspective. but also in terms of the way that things get done, you look

at the fact that we are probably going to be covering a lot of hearings from the judiciary and oversight committee with had of those members who you just referenced. many of whom were election deniers. some of whom were involved around january 6th and the january 6th committee highlighted some of the things they were doing. you look at scott perry as an example. he's someone who jeffrey clark atop the department of justice in the weeks leading up to the insurrection. so all of these parts of context are important when you consider the people who are going to be on these key committees that are going to have a lot of visibility and are going to be going after the biden administration on everything from how covid funds were used to the afghanistan withdrawal. certainly, to the new biden documents that we have seen come forward and come to light in the past few weeks. that's going to be important. but then you also look at things like foreign affairs and the appropriations committee. many of these holdouts were budget hawks. so watching the way that money

moves through this congress is going to be really important. is there extra funding given to ukraine, what happens on things like the debt ceiling and government funding battle, all of those are going to be really important. while we're tracking these committees, it might seem like it's inside baseball, but it impacts how things get done in congress. >> all of at least the vast majority of which will impact every american. so congressman, not a prime committee, but we do know that freshman republican george santos who has been mired in controversy did get a couple committee assignments. now patch.com reports that back in 2016, a homeless disabled veteran was looking for treatment for his dog's stomach tumor when he was connected to a man named anthony devulder. long story short, santos raised thousands of dollars for the dog's surgery through a gofundme page, but then reportedly

refused to hand over that money and, sadly, the dog ended up dying. nbc has not confirmed this it. santos has not responded to our request for comment, but the new media site said santos did respond to them calling the report fake in spite of the fact there are contemporaryist texts and postings that corroborate this story. it's just the late restest. how low can you go? but after months of this, do you see any tipping point? >> no, chris, and it that story is true, george santos is shouldn't be on any committee. that should be the last straw, it there's a last straw. but chris, this is today's republican party. this is trump's republican party. there's zero decency and zero shame. what every republican in that house conference has learned

from trump is you double down, you fight back, you never apologize. and to never acknowledge wrong doing, which is why they will put santos on committees and just keep plugging ahead. never acknowledging any of the wrong doings he's done. >> former congressman joe walsh, ali vitali, thank you both so much. another tragedy that's rocking ukraine after a helicopter crash kills 14, including a high-ranking government official and little kids on the ground hurt on their way to school. we'll head to the scene. in about two hours, solomon pena, the cant accused of shooting at homes, makes his first court appearance. what we can expect. and imagine having to choose between taking a shower or doing the laundry. that's the reality for one community right now. you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc.

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a horrifying scene in ukraine where a helicopter carrying government officials crashed in a suburb of kyiv this morning. right near a kindergarten as parents were dropping off their kids. at least 14 people are dead, including four children. and ukraine's interior minister, the highest ranking official to die since the start of the war. raf sanchez reported from the scene. he's now back in kyiv. tell us a little bit about what you saw. any indication what might have caused that crash? sglz. >> reporter: we spent all day at the crash site, this is a very normal suburb this a country at war. as you said, the helicopter went down at 8:20 a.m. just as parents were dropping their kids off at that kindergarten. you can see some of the carnage on your screen there.

at least one child killed when that helicopter went crashing down. debris sprayed all over the site. as for the investigation into the cause of the crash, it's being led by ukraine's state security agency and they say at this point, they are not ruling anything out. they are investigating the possibility that this was a pilot error. they are looking into whether this could have been some kind of technical malfunction on board this aircraft. but they are also not ruling out that this could have been a deliberate act. now i will say at this point, there's no indication this helicopter was shot down by the russian forces. we haven't seen any russian aircraft today. we haven't seen any russian missile activity. but you can understand when a figure as senior as the ukrainian interior minister is killed along with several of his aids, that the security services want to run down any leads to find out if there's any chance

that this was some kind of deliberate sabotage. 2340u we heard from president zelenskyy addressing leaders at the davos world economic forum. he called for a moment of silence for both the civilians and the government officials who were killed today. but he has a major hole now right at the top of his wartime government. the interior minister, that's a position kind of similar to the u.s. secretary of homeland security, this was the official in charge of police. this was the official in charge of internal security. we drove to the chernobyl site we passed through nearly a dozen ukrainian check points on the way. many of those manned by forces from the ministry of the interior. the government has already appointed a temporary replacement. we're expecting the parliament to vote on a permanent replacement some time in the

coing days. but this is a crash that has rocked not only the ukrainian capital, but also the government. >> raf sanchez, thank you for being there. lawyers for derek chauvin, the former police officer convicted of the murder of george floyd, asked an appeals court today to throw out that conviction and grant a new trial. the lawyers argued multiple legal and procedural errors prevented chauvin from getting a fair trial. the court will deliver its decision in writing within 90 days. chauvin found guilty back in 2021 after kneeling on george floyd's neck for nine and a half minutes. white house messaging about the classified documents clashing with what the department of justice is telling nbc news. could the administration's communications strategy backfire. that's next. communications strategy backfire that's next. here's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪

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disclose. but a law enforcement official tells nbc news the justice department did not ask the white house thot to answer questions about the facts of this case. i want to bring in carol lee at the white house, jeff bennett, an msnbc political contributor, and former congresswoman donna edwards, also an msnbc political analyst. so carol, do we know why the president has been refusing to take questions on this? i think yesterday peter said was day five. does the white house think if he answers questions it will give the story more oxygen? what are you hearing? >> reporter: what we know is that this initial approach that the white house took to this, which was to not get out in front of it and not disclose things before they were disclosed by the news media, that's largely been maintained. we did hear a few disclosures from the white house and the personal counsel on things that transpired and last few days

since the special counsel was named, but they still have maintaining this position that they don't want to get too ahead of the investigation. they don't want to appear as though they are influencing it. they are limited in what they say. as you note, the justice department did not tell the white house that they can't talk about the details of this publicly. so the white house is making that choice. that is their legal strategy. they seem to largely be adhering to that. what we have seen is a slight shift in their political strategy at least this that they had somebody come out yesterday and take questions from reporters specifically only on this issue. there weren't a lot of answers, but what we have seen is that the white house is increasingly willing to push back on republican criticism of the president's handling of classified documents. we have seen that ramp up in the past couple days. so politically speaking, they seem to be sharpening their elbows a little bit. but on the legal strategy about why the president isn't answering questions when he's been asked about this, they

don't seem clearly to want him to be answering these questions. >> yesterday our friend peter alexander had an exchange with the white house press secretary. let me play a little bit of that. >> the white house says republicans are faking outrage on this issue. why shouldn't americans be outraged about classified documents being found in a garage? >> that's where the american people to decide. that's for you all or i'm sure going to talk to many folks out there and have that conversation. >> i'm wondering what you're hearing from your sources about this strategy? does the white house think the american people won't care? or to answer questions acknowledges some sort of culpability? what are you hearing? >> what's really interesting is what i'm hearing from democrats. friends of the white house, who have criticized the way in which white house officials have handled this situation to this point. because they make the case in my conversations with them that it gives the impression to american

voters that the president has something to hide. and what's really interesting is that often times in cases like this, there is a tension between the president's lawyers who are obligated to shield him from legal exposure, and the interest from a communications team that has had a more public relations focus, and their main aim is to blunt the political damage. so you can understand from a legal perspective, it might have made sense to say nothing about the discovery of these documents until it was reported be by a news outlet. but from a messaging standpoint, that is unsustainable. and the way that we know that that is true is because the white house, to carol's point, has shifted strategies. not offering anything new or noteworthy about the underlying case, but to give a deeper sense about the white house's thinking. the white house has made clear they have released thfgs that they deem as appropriate and what they were trying to guard against is this piecemeal

approach putting information out to the public realm that might not be complete, given that this investigation is in its early days. >> so donald trump's defense, and we know his situation is very different from the situation, the president is in, has been maybe you call it a kind of shrug. i want to read to you part of what he just posted. that his case involved just ordinary inexensive folders with various words printed on them that they were a cool keepsake. is all this baked in, frankly, unless one of these ends up being something we talked a lot about was a lot of nothing? tell me what you make of all this. >> these are just so completely different circumstances. the former president trump left the white house with what we know to be about 300 documents

that the national archives made a request from them numerous requests for them until the fbi finally got involved because the former president wasn't complying. in the case of president biden, they uncovered the documents. they turned them over to the national achives and the fbi. they have been cooperating, and i think for the president, it's about getting the handle over what happened and how because they have had a messy approach to this over the last several days and weeks where things have come out piecemeal. some of them partially accurate and then more acurate. i think what they want to do is take this oat of the press briefing room to get a full handle on what happened, how many documents were involved and then allow the cooperation, which i believe they will do, and they have done thus far with

the special counsel's office to bring this investigation to a close. but it has been messy. >> tomorrow the u.s. could hit its debt limit. but there doesn't seem to be a real plan to deal with it. you were in congress the last time the debt ceiling the negotiations reached what was really a critical stage. do you think we might be looking at that same situation now? honestly, the american people want to know why does congress always wait so long? >> it's not dish don't think it's that. right now, we know there are probably a couple months before it really is anut crisis. away we doe know is you can't negotiate over this. even in 2011 when republicans put us at the brink of reaching the debt ceiling and blowing past that to put the economy in

free falls, we lost our credit rating. it cost taxpayers about $1.3 billion. and so that's a real threat. i think kevin mccarthy is going to have to do what john boehner did beforehand. which is negotiate with democrats to make sure that we don't blow away the economy and ending up costing taxpayers and could cost more this time around. i don't think those are any negotiation on this. we need to pay our interest on the debt. and then move on to other conversations in the appropriations and budget process about what spending is doing to be. these are completely different conversations. if kevin mccarthy wants to show some real leadership, he will get to work negotiating this with democrats. >> donna edwards, carol lee, jeff bennett, thank you all. the district attorney's office moving to the next chapter in the trump investigation. what that could mean for the

former president. and troubling new details about failed gop candidate solomon pena as he heads to court. that's all next.

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meeting, he called into the show here on msnbc to say he doesn't think this will be the last meeting at brag's office. brag got a conviction in the tax fraud case against trump org. what do you imagine is happening now? and let me throw something else at you. yesterday apparently was the first time in all of these meetings he met with alvin brag himself, should we read anything into that? >> i do think it's significant that michael cohen was meeting with alvin himself. it says to me he wants to personally put eyes on him, personally assess his credibility. the key to this case is someone who has not always told the truth publicly. michael cohen. so i think prosecutors are right to be skeptical about the case around him. it was michael cohen who was on the inside and first told congress about donald trump's practices of lying about the value of assets to advantage his own strategies, whether it was

reducing tax bill or obtaining loans or assurance or about the hush money paid to stormy danlss. the case really does require michael cohen as a witness. it doesn't require only michael cohen as a witness. i imagine what they have been doing since the time this case first looked like it was over to today, it's trying to build a case up around it with documents and other witnesses. but at the end of the day, it seems essential that michael cohen be there to explain what all of these documents mean and alvin brag wanted to satisfy himself this was a witness we could sponsor as telling truthful testimony and that a jury will believe. >> that seems to be moving forward. i know you haven't had a chance to look at this because it just posted, but i want to read it to you. manhattan da alvin brag is concerned about a former prosecutor who wrote a book about his time investigating donald trump that could jeopardize the office's

continuing probe pap that form investigator was put on special assignment on the trump case by brag's predecessor. en wouldn't that or could that violate some sort of, if not ethics rules, legalities? can a former investigator write a book about an ongoing case? >> absolutely should not be doing that. all lawyers owe a duty of loyalty to their client. that includes keeping their confidences confidential. to share information about an investigation before it is complete would be a breach of that ethical duty. i haven't read the book so i don't know what he says in that book. i know he was satisfied with some of the decisions made by alvin brag when he walked off the case at some point, but if he's disclosing confidential information about witnesses or

evidence or even private conversations while the investigation is pending, that would violate the ethical duty of loyalty to a client ask to maintain a client's confidence. >> at least it's enough that alvin brag is concerned about it. barbara, thank you for taking that curveball from us appreciate it. even more shocking new details emerging about solomon pena, who will be in court in new mexico in just a few hours. he's accused of paying four men to carry out shootings at the homes of four opponents after losing his election, including county commissioner adrian barboa. >> two shots in my vehicle, so it was shocking and scary. >> you said you were with your granddaughter just hours before. >> that was the most terrifying. i kept thinking this is through our front door. you could see the direct path where it went out my back-door. i had literally been there playing with my granddaughter just two hours before. >> even before those shootings,

he reportedly went to three homes. take a look at this video of pena from one of the politician's former addresses this is a doorbell camera. fortunately, no one was hurt in any of those shootings. i want to bring in vaughn hillyard from albuquerque, new mexico. i go the got to say that video is probably pretty terrifying it your one of the people on that list. now knowing what he's accused of or finding bullet holes at your house, what more are we learning about solomon pena? >> reporter: this is a man who was intent on overturning his election. one that he lost by 50%. i got back from one of the county commissioners who was targeted by solomon pena, who who sustained 12 bullet holes in the side of her home. when you're looking there, that's when it becomes a lot more real. this is a rag tag conspiracy,

clearly, one had in which the arresting documents show that there are text messages exchanged between pena and the individuals who he paid to go through with these shootings. yet when you're looking at the lengths of a martinez, who is the incoming speaker of the house here in the state of new mexico, it's quite clear the impications political violence has, especially at a community level like this. take a listen to what martinez said. >> my family came here from mexico. a place where politics and journalism can get you killed. and the fact that this happened not only in our country but it happened in our own backyard is terribly disappointing. it's also a good reminder that our democracy is fragile and our democracy is not free we have to work hard for it. >> reporter: this was two-month investigation for authorities that ultimately led to the ars

this week. now this appearance that's slated to begin in just under two hours from now. pena is facing 15 counts, including a felon in possession of a firearm, shooting at an occupied dwelling, shooting from a motor vehicle, attempted battery with an aggravated weapon, conspiracy and criminal solicitation, these are serious charges. when you hear from law makers and their families, it's very understandable why. >> take a look at this video. they pull up to a drive through and try to drag through the window and into husband car. he even tried to lasso a looped zup tie around her neck to yank her out. all this happened in washington state on monday. she did manage to get away. police say the man you see in this video did not. they arrested him on tuesday. an arizona community in crisis as families are having to choose between washing the dishes and taking a shower. now one resident fears his water bill could be higher than his

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water is scarce at your house, so you eat off of paper plates and drink out of plastic cups, when you do actually use the dishes, instead of doing them right away, you wait four days to clean them and left them stack up and when it's time to shower or do your laundry, you've got to hop in the car and head to your parent's. every single time. this is the reality for our next guest whose family of five is making sacrifices to save water after the city of scottsdale cut off their community of more than 2400 people from the municipal water supply amid extreme drought. now, the real verde foothills suburb is suing. joining me from arizona is resident cody. cody, first can i just ask the obvious question, is it as bad as it sounds? >> yeah, thanks for having me, thank you for hearing this. it is very important that the word gets out.

we need the to change right now. we're on the cusp of a very, very dire emergency. this community is a community in crisis. we need our governor to help. our governor has a water task force. she has made it one of her top priorities, i would ask that the govern we're sit down with our local legislative representative and try to work out some solutions. we are going to need some emergency aid here if nothing happens this week. >> let me ask you -- >> state level and possibly at a federal level. >> let me ask you about your personal situation, your family situation, by the way i saw a picture of your family, your kids incredibly cute, look at, that she is just beautiful, but we have you with video showing your water tank at home, how bad has it gotten and what do you tell your kids? >> yes, so if you think about that water tank as a battery, that battery was charged prior

to january 1st, so there's still some water in there, i had a friend gift me some water, but that was it, that bought us about another week or two. by the end of the week, i would think a week, maybe two, we will be out of that re-charge that we got. and from there, you know, i don't really know where it goes, but it just shows that it can happen to anyone in rural america, and it's my goal to make sure that this does not happen ever again in the state of arizona, and with the right help, hopefully anywhere in america. >> those videos, a beautiful home you have by the way, and i understand it was a dream home you bought just a couple of years ago, the scottsdale community is just 20 miles away, what is your message to them, to state officials, to federal officials, and i know you said you need help, but big picture, what do you need them to do and right now? >> so yes, the community is very united. we have a few outlying people that are trying to cause some

division, and that is unwarranted and unjustified right now. we need to unite against the common goal of we need a long-term water solution. the only solution that is viable that is on the table right now is a private water utility company knowned a epcor, they are on docket with the arizona corporation commission to be heard, that hearing was postponed by a member of the community filing a letter of intervention. they were supposed to be heard january 23rd, and now it's been postponed to sometime in april, which is time that we do not have. blame is being placed on wrong people. you know, incorrectly. the blame goes solely on the mayor of scattered showers. water was brought to scottsdale outside of its portfolio to use for rio verde so scottsdale did not have to use their resources and they deny the offers and that's what put it in this situation. mayor ortega of scottsdale is fully responsible for the community situation at this point. 18 days without water.

>> i can't imagine being in that situation. cody reim, we wish you well and we will be on top of the story. >> thank you very much, chris. i appreciate it. >> we appreciate it, too. before we go, a french nun who was believed to be the world's oet oldest person has died, just a few weeks shy of her 119th birthday. and what a life she lived. she is otherwise known as sister andre born in the south of fran in 1904 one of the oldest survivors of covid-19. and when asked about her secret to longevity, she told french media, quote, working makes you live. i worked until i was 108. but that advice might not be for everyone. so what else fueled her long and fruitful life? she said a daily glass of wine and chocolate. that does it for us this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday, 1:00 eastern time, right here on msnbc. katy tur, who scoffed at the

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