here for 20-plus years who many of us are married, have children -- >> you don't know any other country. >> we went to school with your children. many of us are teaching your children. we stepped up during the beginning of the pandemic as nurses, others who were part of making sure this country and the american public was able to get through this really tough moments that we face together. we're so integral, we're all over society and how are you going to look us in the eye and say, sorry, you have to be deported or you can no longer work, we don't know what your future holds. how are you going to look at a daca recipient who has a usa-born child and tell them that they might be separated from their kids. >> let's not spend nine years between conversations. let's continue your conversation. >> of course, jose. >> thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. more to talk about on this issue. we're not going to forget it.

that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. lindsey reiser picks up with more news right now. good morning. i'm lindsey reiser at msnbc headquarters in new york. and right now we're watching for a major decision set to come any moment now about the deadly shooting on the set of the movie "rust." it's been 15 months since cinematographer halyna hutchins was struck and killed by a live round fired from a prop gun by actor alec baldwin. now a new mexico district attorney is about to announce whether any charges in the case will be filed. i want to get right to nbc's vaughn hillyard in new mexico. what do we know so far? >> reporter: yeah, lindsey, we're talking about a tragic case here in which there was a certain level of intelligence, several layers of negligence on the part of alec baldwin and individuals who were a part of the crew on this western set here of "rust" which was being

shot just outside of santa fe. but the extent to which the intelligence were to meet criminality, that is what the district attorney and the special prosecutor here any moment now are set to make the case on. they would then take and file these charges in the coming days against these individuals and then this would play out in the court of law. yes, alec baldwin is one of these individuals who could be facing charges. alec baldwin has denied pulling the trigger of that colt .45. he said when -- and i believe i'm getting in my ear here that the charges just dropped. lindsey, this is playing out here as we're looking in realtime. if you can bare with us here. as we kind of look through what these charges are, lindsey, i'll set up what we're expecting here. with alec baldwin, when he was on the set, he pulled out that colt .45. he said he never pulled the trigger. the fbi --

>> i'm sorry to interrupt you. this is -- this is happening as you're literally talking, vaughn. we have news, just into our newsroom, that actor and producer alec baldwin and the armorer will be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter. vaughn, i'm sorry to interrupt you. assistant director david halls signing a plea agreement. no charges will be filed for the director joel sousa. in these initial reactions, huge news here, alec baldwin has already settled -- he and other producers of the film with the widower, the family of halyna hutchins. but big news here in terms of the criminal aspect now. >> reporter: right in the case of alec baldwin, alec baldwin has denied that he pulled the trigger of that colt .45. but the forensics team, when they did an investigation, they

said there was no way possible that the functioning of that gun could have fired without him pulling the trigger. as for hannah gutierrez reed, she was the armorer in the case. she was the individual who put the ammunition inside of that firearm. now, gutierrez reed said to her defense there should have been no live ammunition on the set of "rust" and that is where she filed the lawsuit against the likes of the ammunition supplier who she said wrongfully sent live ammunition. that is still an outstanding question at play. but what the district attorney is doing is bringing involuntary manslaughter charges against gutierrez reed who has denied knowingly putting in live ammunition into that firearm. that firearm was then transferred from hannah gutierrez reed to the first assistant director dave halls who per the district attorney reached a plea agreement.

dave halls was the individual who handed that firearm to alec baldwin on the set. and when he did so, he yelled out on set that it was cold. meaning, there was no live ammunition. that's where you've seen in these counter lawsuits between these individuals here discrepancy over the level of negligence and who ultimately bared responsibility. everybody involved here has agreed that this was a tragedy, that it was a mistake. halyna hutchins, as a result, though, is dead. she was the lead -- the director of photography, the cinematographer here. she was shot and killed by that bullet as well as the director here who that one bullet, joel souza, once it passed through halyna hutchins then struck joel souza into the shoulder. this is a tragic play here and one that ultimately, it will be up to the courts to determine the level of guilt that these individuals incurred. it was matt hutchins who is the husband of halyna hutchins who

spoke several months ago with our hoda kotb in which he laid out frustration over alec baldwin shifting responsibility onto these different crew members here saying that ultimately he does bare responsibility, that he was the one who had the firearm. there was a crew member in the days before the shooting incident in october of 2021 who actually resigned from the crew writing in an email to several producers that they played fast and loose with the following protocols, and even mentioned concern about the lack of gun safety training here. this is a tragic incident that will now play out in the court of law, lindsey. >> vaughn, i want you to stick around. i want to bring in two legal analysts. both of you, thank you for being with us here. pretty shocking details. first, kristen, let's go to you and your initial reaction here

of the involuntary manslaughter charges for gutierrez reed and baldwin. >> initially when the news first broke in 2021, i would have been absolutely surprised by this. but given the facts that have unfolded from the release of the police report from the santa fe sheriff's office as well as the fbi report which indicated that alec baldwin did, in fact, pull the trigger, i'm not surprised. of course, it's not a homicide charge where you see intent. it's an involuntary manslaughter where there's criminal negligence which is very clear, it's a killing that results from recklessness and in this case where there were two other incidents, of prior misshootings, where there wasn't proper safety laws followed, as well as there was indications and rumors that there were low budgets and people who were not trained to look at these guns and the different props that were utilized in the deadly weapons. i'm not surprised that the

government feels as though they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was disregard, willful disregard of the rights and safety of others which is a necessary element for involuntary manslaughter. >> danny, your reaction and crucially here in this kind of a charge, no malice needs to be proven. >> i expected these charges. it's a bad idea to charge alec baldwin with involuntary manslaughter. it was the only option because all the sides agree, probably even the state would agree, that alec baldwin did not intentionally shoot anyone. so that really only leaves involuntary manslaughter and several parts -- several options under involuntary manslaughter are basically excluded. there are other two options here. one is that he committed a lawful act which was using the gun on a movie set, but in a reckless manner. the statute speaks of lack of ordinary clear, but they make it clear that it's a recklessness standard. that means that baldwin must have disregarded a known risk. but the other option is using a

weapon in merely a negligent manner. all that requires is showing a lack of -- under the applicable standard, whatever that is for operating a prop gun, i don't know. but the reason that this is going to be a misstep, i think, for the prosecution is that alec baldwin will argue that he never believed he was holding an actual gun. he might as well have believed he was holding a block of wood. it's not unsafe to point a block of wood at someone. the first rule of gun safety is never point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy. but what if you don't think you have a gun? what if an expert in the form of the first ad or the armorer have assured you that what you're holding in your hand is not the equivalent of a gun, it's a toy. well, then, in that case, i'm not sure the prosecution here gets to reasonable doubt, even with a very permissive negligent standard because i'm not so sure he was operating a weapon as

contemplated by the statute. >> danny, before we let you go, no charges will be filed specifically to the nonfatal shooting of the rust director joel souza. explain that that these are only in relation to halyna hutchins who tragically died. >> they probably considered assault, but assault is a little different. it does require specific intent. and maybe there might have been some other -- they could have -- i think they could have feasibly charged that shooting as well, but then you have challenges with the fact that while he was pointing at hutchins and the other guy was kind of behind her. do you transfer that intent? i think maybe they're looking for what they think they can certainly prove as opposed to going and stretching out on a shooting that they may not feel as confident about. but, again, it's my opinion, and just my opinion as a possibly biased criminal defense attorney, that this was -- this is an overcharging and that alec baldwin, if this goes to trial, could get an acquittal.

>> we'll let you go. again, for anybody who is just joining us here, we are talking about the breaking news out of santa fe, the district attorney charging alec baldwin and armorer on the set of "rust" hannah gutierrez reed with involuntary manslaughter. kristen, let's talk about that plea deal here with dave halls. is it likely that gutierrez reed and baldwin were never offered a plea deal? >> that's very likely. in these types of cases, these very serious cases, particularly homicides, sexual violence, some of the main actors are not offered the plea deals that other individuals are. and in this case, it makes sense for halls to be offered a plea deal for the negligent use of a deadly weapon. number one, it's very clear

based on his role that -- at least in my opinion -- that that charge would easily be proven against halls. that's one. but secondarily, he may possess information that can be used against gutierrez reed's involvement. and so he most likely as part of this plea deal will be required to testify truthfully in either one or both of their trials. >> vaughn, talk to me about the jury's role in all of this and what will be in front of them once this does go to trial. >> reporter: these are going to go to a jury to determine whether to acquit or weather to convict, not only gutierrez reed but baldwin here. and the district attorney lays out that it will be left up to the jury to determine the extent to which the manslaughter applies to both of these individuals. and as i'm reading here this report, the charges and the extent to which sentencing would

be incurred by baldwin and gutierrez reed, it would punishable with up to 18 months and jail and a fine. but if the jury were to find that relevant to both individuals, they could be punished up to a mandatory five years in jail here. so there is a lot on the line for baldwin and gutierrez reed. again, lindsey, everybody involved here has acknowledged that this was a mistake, that there was no ill intent involved here, but it was a matter of who bared the responsibility for what took place. that there should have never been live ammunition on set. but at the same time, it was the role of hannah gutierrez reed to make sure as lead armorer, that she knew what she was putting in the firearm and what the prosecution will be laying out is the fact that she put in

bullets that were not dummy bullets, they were not props, and handed that to dave hall, who has taken the plea agreement. he was under the impression that the firearm was secure, but then as part of his role as first assistant director announced on set that it was a cold weapon. meaning that it was not live. and that is when he handed the weapon to alec baldwin. he was trying to pull off a move -- or practice a move, i should say called the cross draw. he denies pulling the trigger here. but when the fbi forensics team went through here, they would there was no way that it could have fired off without the trigger. baldwin says he did not pull the trigger, but when he released the hammer, that is how the bullet fired. and he did not come to grips with the idea that it was a live bullet that fired until well after halyna hutchins was on the ground and pronounced dead.

he could not come to grips with the fact that he had been carrying a firearm that had live ammunition in it. when we're talking about the set of "rust," several crew members had already walked off the set earlier that morning because of the conditions of the set there and frustrations with the -- not only the housing situation, but there was that crew member who had written in an email saying that there had not been proper gun training and said that there had been two times in which a firearm had gone off in between shoots inappropriately and resigned. and so there is a lot of evidence that the prosecution clearly by bringing these charges feels like they have on their side. now we're going to be looking at a long legal process in the courts ahead. >> vaughn hillyard, kristen, thank you. in just the last hour, u.s. treasury secretary janet yellen announced the u.s. has hit its debt limit.

now what? the potentially explosive battle this sets up on the hill and what it means for our country. more stunning new claims about congressman george santos. the new accusations of stealing funds meant for a disabled veteran's dying dog. and violent tornados across the south. a 21-car snow-fueled pileup in colorado and 29 million people under winter weather alerts. we'll tell you where this storm is heading. his storm is heading

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this morning, a looming showdown just hit a critical inflection point. in just the last hour, u.s. treasury secretary janet yellen announced the u.s. has hit its debt limit and says the department is resorting to extraordinary measures to keep paying the nation's bills. it sets up a potentially explosive clash in congress. house speaker kevin mccarthy has said raising the limit with no

strings attached is totally off the table. the white house says that's not up for negotiation. joining me now, garrett haake, ben white and former republican congressman from florida david jolly. garrett, we know that republicans are demanding spending cuts before they approach a deal to raise the debt limit. take us through how this fight could play out. >> reporter: it's going to be a slow motion fight. the treasury secretary says the measures will be exhausted june 5th, that's likely to be a moving target. but i think based on everything we know about how congress approaches these kinds of fights, expect them to go right to the deadline. now, house republicans have said they want spending cuts. they've talked about some broad range of numbers, but they have not been specific. right now, what they want, and what speaker mccarthy has said every time he gets in front of the cameras is, he wants to sit down with president biden and talk about how they do this. the white house and

congressional democrats' position has been there's nothing to talk about. if you want to cut spending, let's have that argument when we go through the appropriations process when we figure how much we spend next year, but don't screw around with the debt limit. they are widely far apart right now, no agreement even to discuss. i think that position might get more difficult for democrats to hold on to as we get closer. but republicans also have to come up with what they'll be negotiating for. because from the democratic perspective, there's no reason to sit down and negotiate against yourself. expect to see this be at least kind of a second tier, if not a top-tier fight between this house republican conference and congressional democrats in the white house for basically all of the next six or seven months. >> top-tier fight. what would happen if nothing results from that fight, if the u.s. actually defaults on its debt? how would that affect the average american? >> let's say it would not be good. it would be very, very bad if the nation were to default or

even come close to defaulting on its debt, the full faith and credit of the u.s. is what underpins the u.s. treasury market which is the most important market in the world. people lose confidence in u.s. debt, you would have markets around the world crushed, you would have the economy go into recession and that is in the case of an actual default. the last time we did this, 2011, we got close, and we got downgraded by s&p and you saw some significant economic impacts from that and we didn't actually technically breach the debt limit, but it would be awful and a ridiculous thing to do and it does not authorize more borrowing. it just says, pay the bills you've already racked up. the politics are going to be dicey and difficult, but the impact of a near-default would be bad, an actual default would be cataclysmic. it's all government accounting

measures, it's moving numbers from one budget to another that makes it countless against the debt. we have a debt ceiling of 31.4 trillion, i think and we've hit that. but there are months of ways they can move around that and june is very much a moving date, june 5th. it could be later than that. it all depends on treasury receipts, how much the 22 taxes come in and 2023 between now and april. the closer you get to it, the more the markets will notice and the more damage it could do. >> so, david, garrett said the two sides couldn't be further apart. setting up for a fight here. what are the political risks for both sides? >> the political risks for republicans are real. they want to repeat of what they were able to do in 2011 which was in order to raise the debt -- the statutory debt limit, they want to put caps on spending. the problem is, in 2011 they were coming off an incredible

2010 midterm where they retook the house with 63 new republican members. it was a red wave. they did not have a red wave in november. republicans are acting like they got a mandate in november to do these things but they didn't. and i think it's a political miscalculation. the other thing that frankly they're not being honest with themselves about is since that 2011 deal, the debt has more than doubled. so they're not actually going to achieve real savings. the way you do that is how joe biden suggested, do that through the annual budget process and if you want to touch entitlement reform, make your case to the american people, and that budget process i think is going to come in play. as garrett says, this could take six months. six months from now, they're going to be dealing with deadlines around the annual budget and republicans, this is sad to say, they could shut down the government in terms of the annual budget process, and the markets are kind of used to that now. it's not the same roiling of

world markets that defaulting on the debt is. they could say, okay, we'll go ahead and raise the debt limit, but we're going to have a fight when it comes to spending. that's what joe biden has asked and take that case to the american people and see how the american people respond. >> ben, let's go back to 2011. that led to the s&p downgrading the u.s. credit rating for the first and only time. we should mention, congress has intervened 78 times to change the debt limit since the '60s. how damaging could this be this time around and do you see it being as bad as or worse than 2011? >> i believe i do worry about it more than 2011 just because of all of the strictures that speaker mccarthy agreed to in order to get the gavel, including not passing a clean debt limit increase. how does mccarthy do that and still stay speaker?

so i worry about it from that perspective more than 2011. but, you know, it is conceivable that we get a deal between now and then. there's no need to panic. there is time and people could realize that, hey, let's not do this particularly when the economy is still vulnerable right now. we have interest rates going up, we're right at the cusp of a possible recession, if the fed messes up. we cannot add to that a debt limit crisis that raises borrowing costs, freaks everybody out, that's a ticket to recession right there, forget about it. >> in "new york times" points out that republicans passed tax cuts when they controlled the white house over the last 20 years. democrats have expanded spending programs that have not been fully offset by tax increases. both noted for large economic aid packages to help people and businesses endure the 2008 financial crisis and the 2020 pandemic recession. what will need to happen for both sides to get on the same page here? >> both sides are going to need to declare victory now politically and for democrats,

that means this narrative of responsible governing and paying your bills. for republicans, they will get some concessions around some types of caps on spending. but it won't really make a huge impact when it comes to the national debt. at the end of the day, this is a hard vote for everybody, for republicans and democrats, everybody has had a hand in spending and cutting taxes and so now is the tough vote. you have to acknowledge that, but all you're acknowledging is, we're going to honor the full faith and credit of the united states and pay our bills. >> thank you. next, the winter weather walloping the countr. where the storm is heading next. where the storm is heading next.

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touched down packing 100-mile-per-hour winds. shaquille brewster is live in wisconsin, and we're tracking where it's headed. what are the conditions like where you are, shaq? >> reporter: right now you're getting light precipitation here in the green bay area. the biggest impact is that the snow, the vast majority of it, came during the morning commute. you see the streets are pretty much clear, especially in the downtown area, the city says most of the main arteries, major roads will be cleared in the next half-hour or so. but this is all part of the same system that really had a significant impact in many other parts of the country. you mentioned in denver, some drivers stranded overnight after that 21-car pileup. at airports, more than half of the flights were delayed. travelers stranded not just on the ground but also in the air. some parts of nebraska getting up to 2 feet of snow and then you mentioned tornado threat. you go to arkansas and there was that confirmed tornado

yesterday. what we're hearing, what we're watching today is in the ohio area, specifically cleveland, cleveland, columbus area, they're dealing with threats of wind, rain, hail and wind. and this is all the same system that's impacting you guys in new york with the rain and the wintry mix. it's a preview, potentially of what can be expect to come in the next couple of days. >> angie, this system, talk to me about where it's headed, what people need to prepare for. >> shaq mentioned it in parts of the northeast, they're going to deal with the impacts from this coast-to-coast system today. here's the winter alerts, 21 million people included in these winter weather advisories, watches and winter storm warnings. here's why, you see how far it stretches from des moines, minneapolis, parts of green bay where we have the lingering snow showers. along the great lakes, it's a mix of rain and snow, for parts of michigan, expanding to the south and east, you see

pittsburgh to washington dealing with the rain. here's how the system plays out. we have one more-ish day to deal with this. there's the snow that's going to be mainly across parts of the upper peninsula of michigan where we'll be dealing with heavy snow there. as we transition through the afternoon hours in parts of the northeast and new england, we'll see the rain and the snow mix. so travel will, again, be tricky. by the time we get into tomorrow, this system will continue moving offshore but we have the lingering snow showers especially downwind of the lakes. we'll have those snow bands set up in places like cleveland, buffalo where they will get added snowfall. here's the totals that we're expecting through the rest of the day, today and into tomorrow. another 1 to 3 inches from minneapolis, more significant snowfall up to a foot for marquette. and the northeast, burlington, anywhere from 4 to 8 inches. the interior areas of the northeast, into parts of new england, that's where we're going to see the heavier

snowfall. anywhere about an inch, half an inch to an inch, you'll have significant rainfall through the day today. we're not looking much in the way of flooding concerns. something to watch for. here is what shaq mentioned about that impact for severe storms. not quite as widespread as what it was yesterday in parts of the south. if you live in ohio, you're going to want to be keeping up with exactly how this plays out into the afternoon hours because we do have some potential for mainly the damaging winds. that's the biggest impact, so we could see some downed trees, wires, be aware of that, but also a brief tornado not out of the question and we could see some of that hail as well, lindsey. this is going to be something that finally we'll get rid of as we get into the weekend but we still have another day or two to deal with the impacts of this coast-to-coast system. >> thank you. turning to the west coast now, president biden is in the air on his way to california just south of the bay area to survey the damage from the parade of storms that ravaged the state for weeks.

the nonstop rain is responsible for nearly two dozen deaths and up to a billion dollars in damage. gadi schwartz is in california. what do we know about the president's trip and how the cleanup is going? >> lindsey, the president is expected to touchdown in the bay area around 12-ish and get into a chopper and come to this area around the coast so he'll be seeing a lot of the damage from the air and we expect him on the ground to be seeing things like this. behind me is a beloved pier here. they have a wharf and a bait and tackle shop just down the way on that pier. they renovated it recently and then these storms came in, one after another after another and there is a gap in that pier that the city says could be as long as a year to repair. so this community has been cut off from really a tourist draw

in this area. this is possibly one of the things that the president is going to be seeing a little bit later today as he meets with the governor here as well as first responders. people who live around here say they are exhausted. >> the cleanup was awful but we cleaned it up, and the next thing you know, fast-forward, what, six days was it, i don't know, we're flooding again. and then to go through a third time, it's defeating. it's like -- our backs are hurting, my feet are killing me. it's disgusting. the mud is so unbearable. >> reporter: and you heard it right there, a third time. we're talking about 500 or so mudslides across the state of california. many of the mudslides have been cleared out, a lot of the road closures are reopened. some of the roads are still very damaged. they've built detours around them, but they're going to have to be repaired.

the repair could take up to a year. for now, the short-term cleanup continues. the long-term cleanup is going to be going on for quite some time. there are estimates that this could be upwards of a billion dollars worth of damage. so today, the governor and the president are going to be talking about some of that emergency assistance, that emergency funding to help with that cleanup, but as -- at this point, it's still unclear how much money the federal government is going to be giving to the state of california to help with the assistance. >> thank you. this morning even more disturbing claims are starting to emerge about embattled new york congressman george santos. he's already been caught lying about his religion, job and education and how he appears to have been caught lying about his mother's death. santos claimed that his mother was at her office inside the world trade center during the 9/11 terrorist attacks. but records show she was living in brazil at the time.

santos' office has yet to comment on this. we're hearing from a navy veteran who accuses santos of pocketing money from his dying dog's gofundme. santos has called those allegations fake and this morning santos is responding again, but not to either of those new bombshell accusations, instead to a different claim, one not confirmed or reported by nbc news, he tweeted, quote, the most recent obsession from the media claiming that i am a drag queen is false. the media continues to make outrageous claims about my life while i'm working to deliver results. i will not be distracted nor phased by this. >> ali vitali is keeping track of this story. santos tweeted a short time ago. what did he say this time? >> reporter: frankly it's hard to keep track of these. it feels like every day or two we get a new layer of exposure from the congressman about a piece of his bio that was inflated or lied about. in this instance regarding

whether or not he pocketed the money from this gofundme campaign that was supposed to go to benefit the dying dog of a veteran. this is what santos is now saying, he says the reports that i would let a dog die is shocking and insane. my work in animal advocacy was the labor of love and hard work. he goes on to say he's received in the last two hours pictures of dogs that he helped reduce throughout the years, along with supported messages. he says the distractions won't stop me. nevertheless, it is a distraction. and while the congressman has said he's not willing to step down, these are the reactions of people who are at the heart of this story, including the person who owned that dog that ended up dying. listen to what he said when he saw that santos was in congress. >> he doesn't deserve that job. it's horrendous that he could lie and steal and cheat his way through life and now he's somebody we're supposed to

trust. it's disgusting. it's horrible. he said be ashamed of himself. but he doesn't have shame. he's a psychopath. >> reporter: certainly those kind of reactions make it difficult to move forward here in congress. of course, two years until the political ramifications actually come home to roost here in terms of voters in that area getting a chance to say whether or not they want santos to keep representing them, but that push could come to shove even earlier if some of these investigations into him actually end up bearing fruit. we're far away from that. but nevertheless, each new day brings a new layer and a new level of distraction for this congressman. >> thank you. we want to go back to the breaking news we brought you at the top of the awe. it was announced this hour that actor alec baldwin will be charged with involuntary manslaughter in that deadly shooting on the "rust" movie set

and the movie's armorer, hannah gutierrez reed will also be charged. now we're hearing from the family of halyna hutchins. they thanked the new mexico authorities for bringing charges and they also said, quote, it is a comfort to the family that in new mexico, no one is above the law. we support the charges, we'll fully cooperate with this prosecution, and hope the justice system works to protect the public and hold accountable those who break the law. back with me, vaughn hillyard and nbc analyst. we also received a statement from alec baldwin's attorney. what did he say? >> reporter: we have that statement here, he says the decision distorts halyna hutchins' tragic death. mr. baldwin had no reason to believe there was a live bullet in the gun. he relied on the professionals with whom he worked, who assured him the gun did not have live

rounds. we will fight these charges and we will win. now, alec baldwin over the course of the last more than a year now since that october 2021 incident, that shooting has denied that he pulled the trigger. an fbi forensics team which reported back to the santa fe sheriff's department said there was no way in which the functioning firearm that they evaluated could have gone off without pulling the trigger. but alec baldwin has maintained that the bullet was released from the gun when he released the gun's hammer. he was sitting in the church of where this set was at, but then what the prosecutors clearly intend to lay out is the fact of negligence of being of the forefront of this here and that he clearly pointed that colt 45 in the direction of halyna hutchins and it also penetrated the shoulder of the director who

was on set here. you're looking at the involuntary manslaughter, two counts, are going to be sent to the jury to determine on. one of them is punishable up to 18 months in jail, lindsey. but the second count includes a firearm enhancement. that count includes a mandatory five years in jail. that is what alec baldwin's defense team is going to be looking at now. this morning, the actual charges were not filed. we're expecting the district attorney to file those charges by month's end. at that point, a summons will be sent to alec baldwin and he will then have to report for an initial hearing. this is all layers of tragedy here and when you're talking about where this movie was and halyna hutchins, she was the lead -- she was the director of photography, she was the cinematographer, they -- two sides, including matt hutchins, the husband of halyna hutchins, intended to come back and work

as an executive producer in completing the shooting of "rust." they had intended this month, january 2023, to begin production back up on the movie because of obligations to see it to its complex. but now with alec baldwin facing these charges, there are serious questions up in the air and, of course, hannah gutierrez reed who is the armorer in this case, she's been charged with involuntary manslaughter, she's the individual who put those actual bullets inside of the firearm that was handed to alec baldwin. she denied knowing that there was live ammunition. there should not have been live ammunition on the set. she filed a lawsuit against the supplier. it's a tragedy all around. halyna hutchins should not be dead. but now it's going to be up to a jury to determine the extent to which the likes of hannah gutierrez-reed and alec baldwin should be punished for that intelligence and what the district attorney is claiming to be involuntary manslaughter. >> danny, vaughn just explained

it, can you dive a little bit more into these two charges and how different they are? >> these are -- the involuntary manslaughter charge against alec baldwin is the primary charge and then you have a firearms enhancement. that's not a stand-alone charge. it's something if the jury finds through a special interrogatory, when they're filling out the verdict, they get an additional question, in this case it will be, do you find that alec baldwin used a firearm in the commission of this offense? if they're going to convict him of involuntary manslaughter, it seems that that would be a foregone conclusion that they would find that he used a firearm. but one of the chief defenses for alec baldwin has to be that unlike all the other firearms cases maybe in the history of firearm cases, this is the one where alec baldwin did not believe he was actually holding a firearm. >> talk to me about the difference between the civil part of the case which we've seen, we know that alec baldwin and producers of the film have settled with the family of halyna hutchins and the criminal aspect. >> settlement helps for the

optics. it can help the prosecution sway them to not bring charges because after all, if you don't have a complaintent, it makes it harder to bring a criminal case. but settling with a victim does not absolve you from criminal responsibility. the prosecution can go forward and prosecute. you see it all the time in domestic violence cases where the victim doesn't want to go forward, but state law may require the prosecution to go forward. look for alec baldwin to start amassing experts. this is going to be an expert case. and ultimately a battle of the experts. they're going to get an armorer, somebody who knows stunts, they're going to get a prop expert. they're going to need experts to educate the jury while alec baldwin is the last person who should have known he was handling a live firearm that other people should have known. you might see a motion by baldwin to sever his case, to split it off from the armorer so they're tried separately. i'm not so sure he would want to

do that. he may want to be tried together with the armorer so they can point at the chair and say that's the real bad guy. i was handed the gun and assured it was not a gun. in my mind, it was a piece of plastic. >> in the case of hannah gutierrez-reed, if you're defense attorneys, what are you doing? you're doing exactly the same thing. i have to remind people of a case from a couple decades again when brandon lee, the son of bruce lee, was shot in a very similar accident on a set. and when you look at that case, it's a lot like this case in that the law enforcement in that case didn't charge anyone because they concluded all along the chain of custody, each person did something negligent, maybe even stupid, but collectively, these happened to tragically cause a death. but individually, their negligence didn't amount of criminal negligence. what's interesting here, under new mexico's involuntary manslaughter, if there was a firearm involved, they need to only prove ordinary negligence. that's a much easier standard

than criminal negligence which requires recklessness. but, again, i might argue that this is the rare case where a firearm is not exactly a firearm. >> danny, thank you so much. our thanks to vaughn hillyard as well. appreciate you both. with the nation hitting its borrowing limit today and the treasury department turning to, quote, extraordinary measures to keep paying our bills, we're going to get an update on how the markets are reacting this morning. >> tech: cracked windshield? make it easy and schedule with safelite, because you can track us and see exactly when we'll be there. >> woman: i have a few more minutes. let's go! >> tech vo: that's service that fits your schedule. go to safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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democrats blame republicans. republicans blame democrats. that's a part of the financial structure of the world. this is not something you should be playing games with. >> joining me now, morgan brennan. do you think investors are echoing those? talk to me about, if we're in a long-term standoff over this, how do you see that affecting the markets? >> i think just case in point today, this is fiscal policy uncertainty layered on top of what is already an uncertain market that's grappling with weakening earnings and tightening monetary policy. not the only executive or public figure to weigh in with similar commentary. treasury is implementing extraordinary measures. it can no longer raise money in the bond market. what matters for wall street and

main street is that the risk of actual default doesn't become a reality now until the summer, as it stands. if that ceiling were to be breached, the u.s. runs out of money to be able to fund its obligations, that would affect social security and medicare benefits to tax refunds, military salaries and interest payments on outstanding national debt, which hurts anyone invested in government bonds. technically, in 1979, the u.s. did default on its debt. it was a bookkeeping glitch that resulted in delayed bond payments that affect a small group of investors. the u.s. has never intentionally defaulted. we don't truly know how this were to play out if it were to happen. it would be a very grave situation. it would send serious shock waves through the global financial markets and institutions and potentially according to some economists trigger a very severe recession. it's unlikely this is going to happen. but it's all of those question marks around, when do we get to

a deal? how do we get to a deal? that really add another brick into the wall of worry that both wall street and main street are trying to climb right now. >> thank you. that will do it for me this busy hour. i will be back tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. eastern. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. tern "andrea mitchell reports" is next if you have high blood pressure, a cold is not just a cold. coricidin is the #1 doctor recommended cold and flu brand. specially designed for people with high blood pressure. be there for life's best moments. trust coricidin. moderate-to-severe eczema. it doesn't care if you have a date, a day off, or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and it's proven to help provide clearer skin and relieve itch fast. cibinqo continuously treats eczema whether you're flaring or not. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. before and during treatment,

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right now on "andrea mitchell reports," alec baldwin facing two counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection to the shooting death of the cinema