good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. it's a busy day. in a stunning move, the da charges alec baldwin with involuntary manslaughter in the shooting death of his

cinematographer. miguel a ma gator is interviewing the special prosecutor right now. we're listening. we'll share everything we learn in realtime. plus president biden is putting 3,000 miles between himself and the growing political headaches in washington. the white house and some top democrats trying to down play concerns about whether the special counsel will derail his reelection bid. but are other democrats sensing a 2024 opportunity? and more proof of egregious lies from george santos ares exposed, including a claim about his mother and september 11th. alec baldwin is now facing serious charges in the shooting of a cinematographer. he will face two counts of involuntary manslaughter.

here he is back in 2021. >> all of what happened on that day leading up to this event was precipitated on one idea, and that is that we had something profound in common. and we both assumed the gun was empty. >> the da writing if any one of these three people had done their jobs, she would be alive today. here's a portion of what she said about baldwin's role in the shooting. >> he was the producer on this film. he was present on scene. he's an actor who is probably starred in 40-plus gun movies, who he is very familiar.

he's very familiar with use of guns. rules of the firearm you don't point a gun at somebody unless you're intending to actually shoot them. and he did all those things, which ultimately resulted in hah lay na hutchen's death. one of the reasons they cited was improper handling of guns onset. so the prosecutors seems to be that baldwin was on notice. he didn't exercise the care that a reasonable person would have and the district attorney says the protocol for actors and producers is to all be involved

in ensuring that the guns are safe. baldwin is trying to shift the blame by blaming the assistant director and the person responsible for handling the guns. >> we just got another piece of the interview that miguel is doing. before i go to it, i want to tell you that this is alec baldwin in that 2021 interview saying he was simply following directions. take a listen. >> as far back as i could without -- does that work? you see that? she goes, yeah, that's good. i let go of the hammer and the gun goes off. everyone is horrified. they are shocked. it's loud. they don't have ear plugs in. the gun was supposed to be empty. i was told, i was handed an empty gun. >> what we just heard, what with

heard from the district attorney contradict what is we just heard from alec baldwin. the da says they determined baldwin did pull the trigger, even if he might not think he did. talk about that and how much i guess the intricacies of guns, how guns work, what he should know and what he shouldn't know will play into this case. >> that's a great question. it is very complicated. the prosecutor has forensic efds that baldwin actually pulled the trigger, which reportedly he has denied. but people killed accidentally, they are not usually charged with crimes unless it's something that's reckless. think of a drunk driver, while extremely intoxicated runs over somebody. but baldwin said this was a tragic accident. but in new mexico, involuntary manslaughter doesn't require an actual intent to kill. prosecutors have to prove that baldwin acted with gross

negligence. so the district attorney said that he had a duty to make sure that the gun didn't contain live ammunition and that he should never have pointed it at anyone. >> that's a really important oint. it's not about intent. it's about gross negligence. to that oint, the assistant director on the film signed a plea agreement for the charge of negligent use of a deadly weapon. he was there. what could he testify to that would say this is a case that restaurants believe they could win? maybe to the point of gross negligence. >> so he probably could testify to what had gone on the set before. these concerns that the production wasn't tolling the safety standard that it should have been, including with regard to guns. so i think that this person may end up testifying against baldwin if he elects to go to trial. that testimony wouldn't be prior required. the prosecutor is looking at

each defendant individually. again, her main case will be that baldwin had a duty to make sure that the set was safe and he failed to follow that duty. he's going to -- if any of these people had done their jobs, the victim here would still be alive. >> you want to bring in vaughn hillyard from santa fe. i know you're just coming to us, so i don't know how much you have heard. we reported on a couple things from miguel's interview. first, they are looking at the fact he was the producer on the film. they say he actually did pull the trigger. what else do we know about why the prosecutor thinks these charges are warranted? >> reporter: right. the special prosecutor here, the statements are important here. because everything that is leading up to the day of the shooting is even more relevant now. there was one particular crew

member who went even to the lengths of resigning from the movie and writing in an e-mail to producers. the question is did this get to alec baldwin himself, but this that e-mail, described that the way that operations were run was fast and loose. and even noted the fact that there were two different incidents in which guns were discharged inappropriately. and that there was inadequate gun safety training that was taking place on the set. leading this crew member to go as far as to resign. that very morning, multiple other crew members walked off the job here. so there was a lot that went into this moment. when you're talking about producer, being the one to what extent was alec baldwin responsible for the hiring of the armer who put the bullets in the firearm. alec baldwin has denied pulling the trigger. this will be determined by a jury. the extent to which whether they

believe him or whether they believe the fbi's forensic team that looked at this firearm and said that there was no way it could not have been discharged without him pulling the trgger. but we also got an update from our colleague who says she just spoke with the manager for alec baldwin. and the manager says that unlike david hall, alec baldwin was never offered a plea deal. we also are learning that dave hall intends to testify and as part of his plea agreement, he was the actual one who handed the firearm to alec baldwin and declared it to be cold he has agreed to testify, we are now told. so to what extent do they have evidence or testimony from dave hall that perhaps could make a stronger case on their behalf in charging these involuntary manslaughter accounts. the tact that we're talking

about thot only the first account, 18 months of prison for alec baldwin, but if they were to be found guilty on the second count, the firearm enhancement, you're talking about a minimum of five years in jail. there's a lot on the line. we will now await in the days ahead. once the charges are presented to see the extent of the evidence that the prosecutors believe they have on their side to find alec baldwin guilty. >> and as we wait for more of that evidence to become public, how often does something else be at play here when they are making a decision whether to charge? every prosecutor should believe that they have the evidence that could convince jurors beyond a reasonable doubt that this happened, but there is always in a case where someone dies an llt of emotion. many of us might remember halyna's husband gave an emotional interview. this is a tragedy. he could take the stand. others who worked with them and were close to her could take the

stand. does that play into the calculation as well? do i have someone or someone i can put on the stand that's going to move the jury, not in terms of the facts, but in terms of ft the loss? >> absolutely. so in this case, the victim's husband is in an interesting position. he's now an executive producer of the film, which before these charges was still going to be made. the prosecutor can certainly consider the wishes of the victim's family. they are not determinative. this is a case in baldwin himself had an individual duty -- the prosecutor will say to make sure that conditions were safe. when he didn't fulfill that duty, the prosecutor's perspective is that justice must be done. in her press conference, she emphasized that no one is above

the law. obviously, mr. baldwin is a rich, famous celebrity. the prosecutor's point of view is that he is entitled to the same fair process as anyone else, and it he committed a crime, he's entitled to the same standard of being brought to justice as any other person. >> thank you both so much for helping us to understand this breaking news. there's also new and compelling proof of the allegations against george santos as his 9/11 claims crumble. the disabled navy veteran, who says santos took funds meant for his dying dog, also sat down with nbc news. >> i felt it was bs from the money i didn't get that money, i knew it was fishy. >> so with controversy in both of those stories raging, one republican is coming to santos' defense. let's bring in ali vitali and ryan nobles is on capitol hill for us as well.

brendan buck was a former aid to paul ryan and john boehner. he's an msnbc political analyst. good to see all of you. santos had claimed his mother was at the world trade center on 9/11. nbc has now reported dispuing that. what's the latest? >> reporter: this is another instance that something santos campaigned on is now clearly not true because of records that we have since obtained. there's so many instances it feels like day after day, we get some new example of a lie santos told that can be refuted. in this instance, we're looking at immigration records we were able to obtain through a researcher who requested them. and what we found was that his mother was not in the country between 1999 and 2003. this actually places her thousands of miles away from the south tower on 9/11, despite the fact that santos himself says on his website that that's where his mother was on the day that the twin towers were hit.

so yet another instance of a lie from santos. host not responding to this one. it does present the same thing we have been dealing with over the course of the last few weeks and months for him, which is that this is a lawmaker who is staying put, standing firm, even as more lies come out, more distraction and frankly, as i have been talking to sources on capitol hill about this story, none of it is happening in a contact vacuum. all his colleagues here are watching these new revelations. many of them are stunned they are surprised. there's a level of sort of ridiculousness along with them, but the real tangible impact is that this is a lawmaker who is expected to serve his constituents. he says he's still here to do that. it makes it difficult when these kinds of allegations are continuing to come out day after day after day. >> so that's the 9/11 case. in the last several hours, santos put out a tweet that reads in part, reports that i would let a dog die is shocking and insane. my work in animal advocacy was

the labor of love and hard work. he was responding to the navy veteran accused him of cheating him out of thousands of dollars that was raised on a gofundme page to save the life of his dying dog. a dog that he said helped him get through some pretty depressing times. what more did that vet have to tell nbc news? >> reporter: if you watch the interentire interview, it's heartbreaking. his story is one if you were writing a movie script, you wouldn't believe could be possible. it had so much working against him. a disabled veteran. he was homesless at the time. this dog was his only lifeline. it was a therapy dog that he considered his family. and he just did not have the money to pay for surgery to treat cancer. that a veterinarian believed would have extended the dog's life. the vet tech put him in touch with a charity that george santos was running at the time. they launched a gofundme page, of which you can still find evidence of, that raised $3,000,

which would have been enough for the surgery, but when it came time for santos to deliver that money, he was to where to be found. he just ghosted him. he later was forced to euthanize the dog. so this is just another example of how there are so many examples in george santos' past where he's either lied to people, been accused of committing fraud. santos really retuesdays to give any kind of tangible eplanation for claims. the tweet does not mention anything about the gofundme account or talk about where the money went. it doesn't specifically deny that the accusation happened. this is a big problem. we are among a large group of reporters up here that chased george santos all around the capitol begging himg to answer questions about these claims. he just refuses to do so. >> i want to play a little bit more of that interview that nbc

news did with this disabled veteran. take a listen. >> i was so limited that this guy is now a serving congressman. he doesn't deserve that job. it's horrendous that he could lie and steal and cheat his way through life, and thousand he's somebody that we're supposed to trust. it's just disgusting. it's horrible. >> you can hear the emotion in his voice. and yet he's not just in congress. he was given two committee assignments and very, very few members of congress have suggested any real serious punishment for this. he was not given an a-list assignment. does the escalation of these stories, a disabled veteran and a dying dog at some point do republicans just say i know we have a very thin majority, but

this is not worth it? >> yeah, this is starting to feel very unsustainable. i understand why the leadership wants to have some level of due process. there should be perhaps an ethics investigation. we know there's federal investigations going on. you need some kind of official pretext for why you want to remove somebody. typically we don't ever of have to kick somebody out. typically people come to that conclusion on their own they need to resign. the walls are closing in on them. they come in with the speaker and understand the situation. they show themselves out. here you have a person who clearly is remarkably shameless and we can't expect him to come to the right conclusion. so at some point, there's going to have to be some accountability. i think the leadership is probably appreciating that. i do think they need some type of pretext to be able to do it. we have only kicked out five people in the history of the house of representatives by voting them out. usually people resign. this maybe such an extraordinary situation where we get to that point. democrats could call up a vote

to remove him. i think right now, reallies would be able to hold that off and point to the ethics committee, but at sol point, this is going to come to an end. or federal law enforcement is going to indict him. i think the road for him is pretty short. he may be just the one that comes to that conclusion. at some point, he probably will be shown the door. >> is there's nothing i have seen that suggests he's going to go away. but we'll see. you're going to stay with me. are we looking at a challenge to president biden in 2024? the powerful democrat now coming to his defense and new reporting on his plans for running again. plus a search warrant of idaho murder suspects now unsealed. the shocking items police found in his apartment, ahead. and new zealand's prime

minister elected as the world's youngest female leader stuns the world. why she says it's time to walk away and on her own terms. you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. on msn. ♪ (cheery music) - they get it. they know how it works... and more importantly... it works for them. - i don't have any anxiety about money anymore. - i don't have to worry about a mortgage payment every month. - it allowed me to live in my home... and not have to pay payments. - [narrator] if you're 62 or older and own your home,

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questions linked to biden's handling of classified material. the white house has told nbc news the investigation will not impact biden's reelection plans. they don't believe it will be a key issue come 2024. but in a new poll shows 71% of americans do believe the issue is either very or somewhat serious. biden's job approval is down 4 points from a month ago 36% give him a positive rating. but if any other democrats are entertaining thoughts of a primary challenge, south carolina congressman jim clyburn, whose support catapulted him in 2020 says think twice. >> i think he's demonstrated in these two years soon to be two years, that he is deserving. >> will he face any primary challenge? >> i don't think he will.

don't think he should. it's perilous. for us to challenge a sitting president, especially one that's had the kind of successes that this president has had. >> mario parker is politics editor for bloomberg news. brendan buck is back with us. clyburn did multiple interviews declaring his support for the. is this the administration send ing a message to democrats to get in line because we've got this? >> think representative clyburn is very politically astute in his own right. he's sending out to any potential chalkers because there's no path to the white house without south carolina. it's really rally around the president or any candidate. >> does the fact that someone like clyburn feels the need to go out and back biden and

frankly his record proves that he's the dpie for the job. does it also prove that the white house maybe is rightfully concerned? >> it's a problem that there's even this conversation taking place. no one is talking about challenging donald trump or challenging barack obama. so it's an unhelpful conversation to have. it does suggest he's weaker than i actually think he is. the reality is this is still pretty early. it's early to be announcing a reelection. but having all of these questions, whether it's about his age or the special counsel all present him as a weaker candidate than i think he is. republicans have underestimated him. we just saw an election where his party outperformed what he expected. so he's baically telling people to knock it off. this is not helpful. nobody should be thinking about challenging him i think they need to start acting very clearly this is a person running for reelection and there should be no question about it.

questions themselves is a sign of weakness to start with. >> as you saud, clyburn's plut astute. that's the message he's sending. that said, you wrote a fascinating article about the maryland governor wes moore and wrote, quote, his resounding victory have placed him on the short list of possible democratic candidates. so if democrats are thinking about someone other than beau joe biden, do the president's poll numbers add in the documents controversy maybe provide a bigger opening than there was a month ago? >> there's no question about it. the documents are politically damaging to the president. we should note that the president is out in california and he's alongside gavin newsom, who was mentioned as the person most likely to challenge the president if he were to get a primary challenge.

so that should be noted as well in terms of wes moore, the democrats have a relatively thinner bench than a republicans do. and wes moore comes along and he's almost like as we wrote, if you create the bench, it would be somebody like wes moore. they served in the u.s. army. a rogue scholar, out of the baltimore area as well. and then a deep donor network headlined by oprah winfrey herself. >> so if you want to take it on the other side, i want to play another part of what jim clyburn said. this is how with what stralk joe

biden should run. >> i told him on many occasions that i believe he ought to announce for reelection and get the playbook laying down back in 1948. and use that as their mantra upon which to run for reelection. >> get that biden wants to benefit from showing he's a competent steady hand on the wheel. while republicans frankly have been in a bit of chaos. they have the santos problem. they went through a bruising speaker fight. what do you make of the strategy in 2024? >> don't put much stock in biden's low poll numbers. you don't have to go back to 1948. you can go to 2012.

you can go back to 1994 with bill clinton. running against a newly elected republican house can be beneficial. i know they love to overreach. they are not the most steady operators. so you have already seen this. the white house has made very aggressive moves already responding to some 069 actions of house republicans, whether it's putting people on the various committees. they came out swinging against that. they see an opportunity. it's a pretty obvious opportunity. this is pretty basic politics. if you want to define your opponent and you want your opponent to be lauren boebert or marjorie taylor greene, and you want to contrast that with what you can do in the white house, that's a great opportunity for the white house. i think they will be running against congress. it will be important to not overreach and make sure you're focusing on real problems that real people care about. i'm not very confident, but

that's actually what joe biden is banking on that they won't. >> they can't win without the independents. thank you both so much. politics and controversy notwithstanding, president biden has business to awe tend to in the state of california. now this is not a political trip, but it does provide an opportunity to sen a message of competency and compassion. this devastating flooding is in the town of fellton. it's flooded multiple times in recent weeks with the river that runs through the town surging to eight feet above flood stage last week. the aftermath of of this kind of devastation is what the president will be seeing today. three weeks of torrential rain and snow have impacted millions and actually forced the white house to double the number of counties that can apply for disaster assistance. gadi schwartz is in california. i know the focus is money to help people rebuild from the current natural disaster.

but is there also talk about investing in ways to protect against the next one? what are we looking for here today from the president? >> reporter: today we're expecting to hear more about storm hardening. i want to walk you through when we're talking about storm hardening, some of the preparation that has to g into the calculation. it's what happens with storm surges that have the power to uproot trees from inland and take them out into the ocean and bring them back to shore. these aren't just little pieces of driftwood. this is actually a piece of an ancient is redwood tree. it has to weigh several tons. it was being worked on inland and taken back out to sea and deposited here on what's normally a clear state beach. this is one of the areas that the president is expected to visit and the types of damage that happened along the coastline, this is a beloved

pier here. this is missing the middle section. so the bait and tackle shop that had just undergone renovations and finally reopened, we're now hearing they could be closed for a year as this pier is repaired. they are inland. how do you store against erosion. we understand burying a lot of lines is something that's talked about for wildfires as well would be in the trillions of dollars. so it's something that will be talked about for future planning. as for the damage that we're seeing now, we have heard estimates of $55 million all told here in california possibly a billion dollars from those mud slides that we saw. those roads that have been lost. there were 22 lives lost. so all of that will be a factor

during the presidential visit. you can see people are starting to line up here along the boardwalk. hoping for a chance to see the president as he comes here to talk to some of the first responders and the people that went through this storm seven different atmospheric events that have swept through california. >> so much for him to see. so much to do. thank you for that amazing report. we appreciate it. across the country, nearly 5 million people are now facing winter storm warnings with some of the most dangerous conditions hitting parts of kansas, nebraska and colorado. outside aurora, colorado, a semijackknifed on i-70 in whiteout conditions leading to a pileup that ultimately involved 21 vehicles that highway was still closed as of this morning after forcing stranded drivers to simply hunker down. >> the highway being shut down, we're all in limbo. these trucks out here, they have

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physical evidence, which they got plenty of, but the digital footprint. that's what they were really trying to get. you can see in the court papers they wanted to get devices and the computer tower, which they managed to seize. their hope is to try to figure out what was the planning, what was the motive, what went into this event. they want to be able to show this was well thought out. it wasn't some spur of the moment decision. they are trying to show that. they think they can show that through the use of the digital evidence. we do not know the results of that digital evidence. we need more reporting on that. that will come out as will in future hearings. but what is on that computer is going to be key for them when they are trying to show intent. >> as you indicate, we don't have a motive. there's no murder weapon. if that turns out to be the case, how much harder is it to prosecute a case? >> it shouldn't be fatal. there's been plenty of cases you don't find the murder weapon. prosecutors will try to say this

is a criminology expert. this is somebody who knew how to hide his tracks and may have turned off his phone during the events. they can't find the pings. so they will try to point to all that. but the defense is going to be interested in the fact that there is no murder weapon. there is nothing linking him in that physical way. again, the dna evidence will be key because they have dna on the knife sheathe that was founds at the scene of the crime, but more to come on that. >> i watched them take this stuff out. we talked about a glove and we're assuming what might be some bloodstains. but if it is tied to the case, he was a criminology student. that just seems smart. >> the animal hair could be interesting. one of the victims has a dog that she shares with her ex-boyfriend. they think they found a possible strand among other hair.

if it is the dog that belonged to the victim, that's another piece of incriminating evidence. it remains to be seen. >> we'll talk again. thank you. the u.s. hit its debt limit and the economy and everyday of americans could feel the brunt of the issue. >> it could raise our borrowing costs for decades to come, which would ironically actually raise our government spending and raise our debt.

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that's the estimate here. we need to take a step back and talk about a what is the debt limit. it's a cap on how much the government can borrow. this is separate from the spending process. this has nothing to do with whether or not money goes to defense spending or infrastructure spending. it's all about what we racked up and when we pay for it. exceeding the limit uts the united states at risk of default. and we exceeded the limit on the debt today. which starts the clock because they can take these extraordinary measures. but that's going to be the next big deadline. if we pass that point, the united states might run out. >> what do you mean by extraordinary measures? >> there's certain things they can do. they can tap into certain funds they can suspend paumts into certain types of side money pots they have. without getting into the nit ti y grit ty, it allows them to hobble along and pay the bills until june 5th. for what it's worth, we have seen this episode before in december 2021. in the last 78 times congress

was able to negotiate the debt ceiling by suspending it or raising it since 1960. hopefully history is on our side. >> there hasn't been a huge movement in the market today. i think at one point it was down 300. now down 129. but is there any evidence you're hearing that at least this is making wall street nervous? >> it's hard to say with any confidence why the stock market is moving. what we do know is there's concern among investors that this right here, the $31 trillion in u.s. debt might have a portion of it not paid off. ask keep in mind, this is really important because government debt from the united states are widely regarded as the most liquid assets to hold. if this doesn't become credible, that could really make the underpinning of not just the u.s. financial system, but the global financial system fall out from under it. worth noting we have not seen a default ever happen before. congress has been aware of the high stakes here. hopefully we can avoid that in a few months. >> good to have you in the studio.

thank you. an unexpected announcement that shocked the world. why the prime minister of new seethe land says she's stepping down. the land says she's stepping down feeling about this ♪ ♪ yeah, ♪ ♪ so let's get it ♪ ♪ i'm feeling good vibes ♪ hi, we've both got a big birthday coming up. so we have a lot of questions about medicare plans. we've got a lot of answers! how can i help? well for starters, do you include hearing benefits? how about a plan with dental, vision and hearing benefits? i sure like the sound of that! then how does a $0 monthly plan premium sound? ooooooooh! [laughs] if you're new to medicare, call 1-888-65-aetna. we'll walk you through all your coverage and benefit options to help find the right plan for you.

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. new zealand's prime minister and progressive icon jacinda ardern has sent schott shock waves across the globe, announcing after six years in office she will resign her post in just a matter of weeks. >> i'm leaving because with such a privileged role comes responsibility. the responsibility to know when you're the right person to lead, and also when you're not. i know what this job takes and i know that i no longer have enough in the tank to do it justice. it's that simple. >> despite global recognition for her response to covid and action against gun violence, ardern has faced plummeting approval ratings at home and now she says she will step down no later that february 7th. nbc's meagan fitzgerald has more on this from london. what more do we know about motivated this? and what happens now? >> reporter: well, chris, this

really boils down to burnout of the prime minister as you just heard has been quite candid in her reasons for waning to resign, saying she knows what this job takes and she doesn't have enough in the tank to do the job justice and so she'll be stepping down by february 7th but she leaves behind quite the legacy as the first, as the youngest rather, head of government to be elected at 37 years old, back in 2017, five and a half years ago, the second woman to have a baby in office, she garnered a lot of praise, if you will remember, in the beginning of the pandemic, in the way in which she handled that for her country and the way that that she responded to the mass shooting that we saw, where a white supremacist, at a mosque, killing 51 people and led to some swift action to the ban of assault rifles throughout the entire nash. as you mentioned, the factor also that over the last several months, we have seen her popularity decrease. but the prime minister insists that has nothing to do with her

decision to resign. i want you to take a listen to a little bit of what she had to say. >> i think the cumulative challenges that we face as a team, and they have been extraordinary, it has taken its toll. i consider this job a privilege. but i am also human, and so my transition is an entirely peaceful one and i will add that i had the support of my family to continue, in fact, some members of my family particularly close to me wanted me to continue, but that supported my decision. >> now the vice president of the united states kamala harris tweeting, and i want to read this tweet for you. she says prime minister ardern is a forward-looking, global leader who has inspired millions around the world. she goes on to thank the prime minister. and you know, what also really stands out here, chris, along with many of the things that she wants to leave behind in her legacy, she mentioned kindness, being able to be a politician but also being able to be kind.

>> meagan fitzgerald, what an extraordinary story, thank you so much. well, from bobby fisher, of the 1970s, to american teenager hands nieman today, the cerebral game of chess has a history of bad boys. but now, consider adding to that villainous list mittens. "the wall street journal" puts it, this adorable yet diabolical wide-eyed cat might look innocent, but her moves are deadly. the website where the bot resides, chess.com, actually crashed so many people tried to foil the feline. the site is on track to hit more than 850 million games this month. mittens beating her opponents with an unnerving indifference, sometimes while quoting niyhe and dabbling in french cinema. 40% more visits than any month in the company's history. with the ability to make even chess champions want to claw the screen, international master levy roseman tweeted, this bot

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