up. what are some of the other states you have your eyes on? >> arizona, especially after everything that happened with sinema switched to being an independent. the door is open for a democratic candidate to rise. former phoenix mayor greg stanton said he is not going to. there's eyes on ruben gallego. i spoke with phoenix mayor kate gallego this week who's rumored to be interested in the race. not only she won't run for senate, she certainly won't run for house in the event that gallego runs. >> on the republican side, kari lake rumors have picked up as well. eugene scott, thank you for being with us this morning. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this friday, and all week long. "morning joe" starts right now. it's not my call to believe whether he goes to prison or

not. my focus is to get justice for halyna hutchins and let everyone know just because you're an a-list actor, you're not going to be above the law. >> that is the special prosecutor in the "rust" shooting case speaking with nbc news after announcing alec baldwin will be charged with involuntary manslaughter in the fatal shooting of cinematographer halyna hutchins. we'll have much more on this case and this surprising decision in just a moment. president biden's new comments about the investigation into the classified documents found at his home and personal office. we'll play for you that new information, that sound from him. also ahead, we'll explain why his administration is optimistic about the incendiary conservatives who are now serving on the house oversight committee. plus a live report from ukraine as dozens of allies are meeting to determine what military aid is needed to fend off russian forces.

good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, january 20th. along with willie, joe and me, we welcome you to our four-hour show, and this morning, joe, we say good-bye to a legend. >> yeah, say good-bye to a music legend, and you know, willie, yesterday afternoon when we heard david crosby had passed. obviously a lot of people were sending some of his greatest clips across twitter and across other social media. and my gosh, you look at him and what he did in the birds. they were just absolutely cutting edge. and they were almost -- the birds were almost out of time. they were so ground breaking, and to move from that to all the other great things that he did, of course.

he's remembered a big part of the woodstock generation, but just a brilliant musician, brilliant voice, and somebody who's going to be missed sorely in music. >> yeah, crosby stills and nash, legendary in its own right. it was the birds who changed music in the early 1960s, along with dylan, the sound coming out of the village, folk rock, and david crosby did die at the age of 81. we're told it was a long illness. he was an iconic figure for six decades. two memorable groups, the birds and crosby, stills and nash. two-time rock 'n' roll hall of fame inductee, turned out classic hits like "mr. tambourine man," "turn, turn, turn" when he was with the birds and the memorable album "sweet

blue eyes" he created. and "long time gone" and "wooden chips," he continued to perform until last may when he announced his retirement. he was on "morning joe" about six years ago. we were lucky to have him on and he was talking about the inspiration for his music. >> so where do you get your inspiration after all of these years? is it just the love of music, just it's what you do? >> it's usually love. we usually write about love. i do. sometimes something crosses your path, you know, and you say, oh, gee, that's not right, and then the sort of town crier part of our gig kicks into gear. oh, you know, okay, wait a minute, america is shooting at some children, we better write ohio. you can't do a steady diet of that. our job is to make people boogie or take them on an emotional

voyage. >> so much of the music we know is so iconic from that period, in the 1960s and '70s comes from him, he's in the rock 'n' roll hall of fame twice because he was so good. once with the birds and he talked about the troubles he had with addiction and illness and his own personal health, and he certainly changed alternative, not just music but changed artistic expression in america. >> artistic expression, and part of a generation of singers and song writers and musicians who literally changed culture, not only in america but across the western world and across the world itself. mika, i was listening yesterday, he was singing with graham nash in his 1971 live performance,

and it's just so beautiful. the singing was so beautiful. the music was so beautiful, the harmonies so beautiful, his voice to beautiful. i find it hard to imagine that people in the audience in 1971, 1972 were any more moved by that voice than i was 50 years later. i'm confident 50 years from now, people will still be hearing that voice and the same emotions will well up. that is the power of the music of david crosby and those he played with. it's timeless and remarkable. >> it really is. the sound track of our lives, and you're right, joe, it will continue for generations. so we're going to move to our top story now. actor alec baldwin will be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter for the fatal on-set shooting of "rust"

cinematographer, halyna hutchins. the armorer faces the same charges. involuntary manslaughter serves a sentence of 18 months in prison and a $5,000 fine. baldwin and gutierrez face a firearms enhancement, which carries a mandatory five-year sentence if convicted. while filming in october of 2021, baldwin was holding a prop gun that contained a live round of ammunition when it discharged. hutchins was fatally shot, and the film's director, joel sousa was injured. baldwin maintains he didn't pull the trigger but an fbi forensic analysis determined it could not have gone off without the trigger being pulled. >> she disarms, we go to lunch. she hands me the revolver. they arm me. and you're assuming, as we have

done every time that it's a cold gun for the rehearsal. she cleans it out every time, and checks that the rounds are all cosmetic rounds or nothing in the chamber. she hands me the gun. i'm assuming she's done it the right way. i put it in the holster, pull it out slow. we're rehearsing. turn, dock the pistol, goes off, and she hits the ground. >> in a statement, baldwin's attorney said quote, mr. baldwin had no reason to believe there was a live bullet in the gun or anywhere on the movie set. he relied on the professionals with whom he worked who assured him the gun did not have live rounds. we will fight these charges, and we will win. baldwin and the movie's production company settled the wrongful death lawsuit with hutchin's family in november for an undisclosed amount. meanwhile, assistant director of the film david halls has signed a plea agreement for charge of

negligent use of a deadly weapon. he will get a suspended sentence and six months of probation. joe, there's so much going on here on this especially, you know, the clear fact that alec baldwin said he didn't pull the trigger. did he not think he pulled the trigger? how is that determined? and also, he did a lot of process claiming his innocence throughout this entire process and i wonder just listening to the special prosecutor if that potentially worked against him. >> you know, we grow up even when we're young, and we see these tv lawyers or movie lawyers telling somebody about their right to remain silent. that is their right. but it also is just the smart thing to do. you know, there's a reason lawyers tell their clients not to talk. alec baldwin just talked nonstop

there. and that video that we saw, he did podcasts. he was constantly going out. going through everything. trying to blame other people. >> yeah, he was trying to blame everybody else. what people think on podcasts don't matter to alec baldwin. should not matter to alec baldwin. what the court thinks, what an ultimate jury thinks is what matters. i don't say this to chide alec baldwin for what he did. i just say anybody listening to this show, anybody watching this show, don't talk. keep your mouth shut. get a lawyer. talk to the lawyer. i don't care what it is. and this guy has just been talking nonstop, and again, trying to go around assigning

blame and every time you talk, you give prosecutors something to work off of. i must say, he just -- he is as rich and powerful as he is, he must not have had anybody around him that could just say what you tell me often, joe. stop talking. >> yeah. >> and i will now. let's bring in msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos, i was watching the show yesterday morning, and i heard mika ask you, hey, is alec baldwin going to get charged. she thought she was going to. i was with you. i didn't see the state charging this guy for a variety of reasons. a lot of the -- it being that they'll be able to get a conviction. i'm skeptical that they'll be able to get a conviction.

they brought the charges. after listening to the logic, are you surprised and why did they do it? and are they going to be able to get a conviction? >> i'm even more skeptical after hearing a number of interviews these prosecutors gave because they revealed their theory of the case, and it's got a lot of holes. let me give you an example, when asked, hey, are you pursuing baldwin as an executive producer or as the guy who held the gun. the answer was, well, both. how is that going to fly with the jury. we're not exactly sure what the theory of the case is, you pick, help us out. that's not what juries do. the bullet, how did the live round get on the set. they said that's a red herring, it's not a red herring. it may be the most important issue. the prosecution doesn't care how this live round got on the set. we don't know if it was even

done intentionally. it could have been somebody looking to sabotage the set. the real bad guy may be out there. why aren't the prosecution looking for him. i'll tell you why. they got tunnel vision from day one. they knew who they wanted to go after. they talked him into an interview. they led him on thinking, hey, we're just trying to investigate this. but they never looked for the real bad guy because in their mind, the bad guy was the hollywood elite. the guy they're saying in interviews, no one is above the law, and they're including fancy hollywood types. how did i do? persuasive, anyone? >> can it be both? look, he's a producer on the show. so he's in charge of anything that happens within the specter of creating a movie. and on top of it, he's the man holding the gun where the trigger somehow got pulled. i don't know how you can avoid this. i agree the special prosecutor sounds very personal in this.

you know, it was very much a response, i think, to his outward defense. >> absolutely, totally agree. >> it really felt personal. but there is something to be looked at here, whether ultimately he is convicted remains to be seen. i think we all can agree this is a horrific mistake that nobody planned on or wanted to have happen. i guess the investigation will bear that out as well. but how could he be completely separated from this? he can't be. separated from charges. >> how can he be separated from charges? i'll go back to the d.a.'s statements. if i'm the defense, i want to call the d.a. as a witness. you can't, but one of the things they said is along this chain of custody, there were a number of different things that people did wrong. >> right. >> as a defense attorney, i'm going to point to the other people because they're not coconspirators, this was not an agreement among many people, including baldwin's codefendant. they're not accomplices with

each other. they're not coconspirators. the more hannah gutierrez reid is guilty, the less alec baldwin is. the more someone in the chain of custody is guilty, the less alec baldwin is. you're going to make the argument that, yes, an actor can rely on a first assistant director that this is a cold gun and believe him. he played jack ryan in the '90s. >> this is a cold gun. joe, the bottom line is, cold gun, toy gun, replica, any type of gun you, never point it at another person. >> even a plastic gun. >> even a plastic gun. >> that is as somebody that is a gun owner and grew up in a culture around guns, yes, you never do that. it's reckless, it's irresponsible, the question is it a crime. i told this story before when i was afraid of flying as a kid, i

flew across the country next to a pilot who told me and said this a lot before, when a plane goes down, a plane goes down not because one thing went wrong usually. it's because 15 or 16 things went wrong. there's never one. it's one stacked on top of another and you go back and say what are the odds. that's the case here, and again, you've got chain of custody. you've got a question, how did the live ammo get on to the set. who put it in? i agree with danny here, if you're a lawyer, your standard is not a preponderance of the evidence, it's reasonable doubt. and if i've got the chain of custody that bounces along like this, and then we don't have even the most basic question answered, how did the live ammo get on the set, that's a case that if shaped correctly, i'm

feeling pretty good about going to a jury defending alec baldwin. >> yeah, and what the prosecutors are saying is that alec baldwin is the last link in that chain of command and that he had a responsibility ultimately at the end to make sure the gun was safe. you can read interviews yesterday, and i talked to people who said that's a fundamental misunderstanding of how a movie set works. a professional whose job it is to load and tell the actor, this is a cold gun. that's the armorer's job, not the actor's job. what did you make of those comments, danny, from the prosecutors who said at the end of the line here, this is alec baldwin's responsibility, which lies in the face of what a lot of people in hollywood said yesterday, that's just not how it works. >> exactly. and that's why this defense is ultimately going to be a battle of the experts.

they're going to get a firearms expert, a stunt expert and prop expert. they need one or two persuasive people to tell the jury, this is not how it works. actors are permitted to believe when they're handed a cold gun, it is a cold gun. we're here on a kind of film settle, right? there's a camera over there on a boom. have you ever gone over to check that, hey that, could be a dangerous item, you know what, i'm going to check right now. >> but you're not handling that camera. >> exactly. that's true. but when you're handed a gun and everybody on set tells you that it's safe. you have a right to believe it's safe. by the way, here's another expert they could use. any expert that would say the old style single action revolvers could possibly go off when the firing pin is touched by the hammer, all you need is one. one thing i will tell you from trying cases, you can find an expert to say anything. all they need is one expert to come in and say this is theoretically possible or to

talk about the practices on a movie set, you can be expected to believe it's cold. you have reasonable doubt. all we have heard is the prosecution's side. we have not yet heard the defense side. >> joe. >> i think if you're the prosecutor, you need to look at this a different way. i mean, i don't know what i'm talking about. i'm a dumb country lawyer, but going after alec baldwin the actor seems to me to be a fraught legal approach because what willie said, what danny said, look, though, at alec baldwin the producer of a cut rate movie where they were trying to do everything on the fly where they cut corners with the people they hired. hiring people on the set that had sketchy problems in the past, trying to cut costs. if you can prove that rich hollywood guy was trying to do a low budget film and he cut costs

in a way that endangered everybody on that set, i think that might be a little more persuasive with the jury. >> i mean, i think he bookends this. he's a producer, potentially making those decision, and he's the one holding the gun. this is where there's a disconnect. i guess i have been around guns too much, and i just would never ever ever in my life meet a gun expert who says it's okay to hand a -- to point a cold gun at someone. >> you make a good point. remember, this is in new mexico, it's an open carry state. you might have people on the jury that are more knowledgeable about guns than people in manhattan, and they may have your view, if it looks like a futuristic ray gun, don't point it at anybody. because it could be loaded or a laser or whatever. >> joe, i cut you off, sorry. >> that's okay, you know, the thing is danny makes a great point, right, so new mexico is

open carry. a lot of people have guns there, and it might be the presumption of some that don't live in a culture where there are a lot of gun owners, they would be lenient on alec baldwin, i would say the opposite is true, because most people that i have known growing up in mississippi and alabama and georgia and northwest florida, they're really responsible with their guns. they're really -- they lock them up. they would never ever point a gun at anybody. so actually, the fact that there's more of a gun culture in that state may actually cut against alec baldwin more than say if this were tried in manhattan. >> so interesting. msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos, thank you very much. we'll be seeing a lot of you as we watch this case progress. and still ahead on "morning joe," why biden world is giddy this morning. we'll explain that.

plus, global leaders will meet today to discuss the next steps in the defense of ukraine. we'll get a live report from kyiv amid talks about a huge new military aid package. and former president trump voices frustration with evangelical leaders for not yet backing his 2024 campaign. we'll show you his new comments. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. s. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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blue plane. everybody is okay. and they released an apology. >> we like to apologize for our recent misstep. we take the safety of our passengers, this will not be tolerated. take a look on the bright side, at least we aren't spirit. >> this is true. jonathan lemire, they're not spirit or southwest. >> at laguardia, mika, because some of the gates are out in lancaster county, they have had collisions at times. >> i don't like this kind of joking. >> some horse and buggies and some jet blue flights. >> we're going to move on now. >> willie, at laguardia, i put on my watch, i get my 10,000 steps in just getting inside the airport and going through security. >> it's a little big. >> get my next 10,000 trying to

find the state. it's the first tristate airport, right, so i'm going am i going to be flying out of connecticut, jersey or pennsylvania today. >> yeah, you've got to stop and take meals along the way. you have your breakfast when you get through security. then after 45 minutes you stop and have lunch, keep moving until you hit the gate. laguardia is so much better than it was, people complained about for so many years. they're working to cut through the area. >> there's like a two-story escalator, what if you dropped your bag, i kept thinking, i'm going to drop my bag. >> rev, i don't know. at times i miss the dirty bathrooms and small airports where you can get to your flight in three minutes, man. seriously, it's a haul. and again, i'm fine. but, you know, i'm getting old, rev, in a couple of years i'm going to have to get one of

those mike barnicle scooters just to get to my gate. >> it's very very very very much extended. let's put it that way. i was taking some young people from national action network to go to a rally and march in washington, and when we finally got to the airplane, they said the march is over, right? i said no, we haven't even gotten to washington. they thought we'd already done the march. it's that far. >> all right. let's get back to politics. jonathan lemire and his colleagues at "politico" have new reporting about a cause for optimism in the biden white house. let me just say this makes me very nervous. democrats should never be optimistic, but okay. the installation of some of the most controversial house republicans to several of the most front facing congressional committees is causing unbridled glee in the west wing. hello, no glee allowed, aides say. we spoke with decisions like

putting georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene on the house oversight committee only make it easier for the white house to paint the opposing party as unhinged. after house speaker kevin mccarthy announced the new committee assignments earlier this week, white house staffers sent texts to each other with, oh, don't do this, digital high fives. >> that never ends well. >> one biden ally they spoke with called it a political gift, and another top democratic activist said quote this collective group has the credibility of a sentient my pillow commercial. it may be true, jonathan lemire, who's with us now, white house political bureau, and former chair o. republican national committee, michael steele, and former aide to the george w. bush white house, elise jordan. jonathan lemire, you can't have glee as a democrat.

i have never heard such a thing. >> it is unusual and perhaps some of those watching at the white house will change their tone after we talk about it. this is how it was perceived, a political gift for a white house that has had a rocky stretch after the classified documents material matter, they were looking for some good news, and they think they got it. we should note, no white house likes to be the subject of investigations. some house democrats, my colleagues and i spoke to, definitely urged tapping the brakes a little bit on the optimism saying, look, this is going to be a pretty painful process. from the white house's perspective, they thought this all along, that if the republicans were to take the house and they did, narrowly, that first of all, kevin mccarthy is going to have a hard time keeping it under control. we have already seen that, and secondly there's going to be this elevation of these fringe characters, the paul gosars,

lauren boebert, and marjorie taylor greene. they're going to keep making those threats but they think these lawmakers are not going to be able to resist overstepping. they represent deep red districts. they have initial constituencies for fundraising. they're going to play to the extreme elements of the right, and they're going to make a mess of these hearings and the white house will be able to present a stark contrast, hey, we're the adults in the room. we're being responsible. we're trying to do the work of the people. you guys are grand standing, and they think there will be political benefits from that. >> you know, michael steele, mika is always concerned whenever anybody celebrates and takes victory laps. i bring up the case where the carter administration threw a party the night ronald reagan won the republican nomination in 1980, we knew how that ended. she talks about hillary clinton joking with donald trump on "saturday night live" with her fellow hillary clinton right there and how badly that went. but in this case, can't democrats at least crack a

little smile. >> no. >> when you look at the fact that the oversight committee really has set themselves up with the conspiracy theorists, insurrectionists, weirdos, political freaks. >> yeah, joe, i think that this is sort of the, you know, snorting water out of your nose when you hear the list that you start laughing. it's just like, oh, that moment. while it's unsightly, and people like, you know, get a little bit upset about it, yeah, it kind of makes sense. because it's not serious. we all know this is the big payoff to put wholly and competent people on committees like oversight, putting incompetent people on intelligence, people you know who outside of their role as a member of congress would not get close to national security

clearance or any other type of clearance to review the information that they'll now have at their finger tips. so, yeah, there is that, you know, snorting water kind of moment, but, you know, i think the administration is going to be ultimately the adult in the room because of what's going to be opposite them. you know, they're by default going to be the adult in the room. >> i think you have to be careful that you look like an adult. what you don't want to look like is you're just as immature, giddy, as those that are clearly. i mean, you have congresswomen on the right having bathroom fights and arguments. >> oh, my lord. >> you don't need to look like you're in the other side of the stall doing high fives, you need to act like an adult and acting like an adult is not to be high

fiving and acting giddy. you can wait until you get home and say that to your husband or wife or partner but i think this is a time where everyone needs to act at all times more like an adult and let the other side destroy themselves. >> i think the giddiness is more for their political prospects in the white house and not for the country to have these people in real positions of power. as we look ahead at 2024, at the polling between donald trump and ron desantis, if he decided to run. other candidates now are starting to step forward. former president trump's early announcement that he's running for president, again, doesn't seem to have had the effect of freezing out the rest of the potential field. former u.n. ambassador and south carolina governor nikki haley had this to say when asked about her 2024 plans. >> when you're looking at a run for president, you look at two things. first you look at, does the current situation push for new leadership, the second question is am i that person that could be that new leader, that yes, we

need to go in a new direction. can i be that leader? yes, i think i can be that leader. >> ambassador hailey talking to brett fox there. you have some people testing the waters, mike pence and other ones, they believe that perhaps donald trump is vulnerable. these, of course, have been people who have fallen in line with him over the last five, six years. do you think a field is going to step out and challenge donald trump? >> from all indications, it looks like, yes, mike pompeo's book, he's taking some shots at president trump over china from the right even saying that he wasn't tough enough on china at the beginning of covid, and so you've got him in the race. you've got nikki haley looking like she's going to run. you've got mike pence, and then ron desantis, republican fundraiser told me this week that the day he announces, the money that's going to come in from ron desantis from the rich donor class of the republican party is just going to be tremendous. and so that at least at a

minimum, a field of five, and that helps donald trump because it splinters the vote just enough that probably gives him the edge in a primary fight. >> so rev, we talk and a lot of people talk about the mistakes donald trump has made, how donald trump's best days are behind him, he's picking fights with the pro life community, he's picking fights with the evangelicals, and ron desantis, ron desantis, ron desantis, but as we were talking about last night on the show, distal may not be able to handle, you talk about james brown and can you handle the big stage, let's talk about boxing. this is usually one on one. we saw what trump did to marco rubio. we saw what trump did to rand paul. we saw what trump did to jeb bush. one on one, he completely destroyed every one of them, right? and it's kind of like, you know,

ali in 1977. '78, ali was slowing down, there were great boxers like jimmy young that would always push him to the edge. he was still the champ, he still figured out how to win fights. forgive me, i'm not comparing donald trump in any way to muhammad ali, save your tweets for somebody else who's going to read them. i am saying, he's still the champ in the gop. he's still the most popular member of the party. he's still the guy that can dominate the stage like nobody else there. and i don't know, i think we in the media keep making the mistake that he can't win the republican nomination this year, can he? >> i agree. we should never underestimate someone like trump, particularly when we've seen what he's done, and as you and i were talking, muhammad ali who i got to know

pretty well toward the end of his career, he knew how to do just enough to win rounds when he couldn't necessarily knock somebody out. and he used theatrics and there's no one better in the republican political realm that understands better than donald trump, and that should not be underestimated, but the other thing i'll tell you in ali's story, i was at his training camp once in deer lake. i went into different cabinets for different purposes and i went into the training cabin, this guy looked terrific. he was sparring and making all the right moves and ali came in slowly, and was standing behind me. when i noticed he was behind me, champ, this guy's got it, this guy is going to be big. he looked at me, sharpton, he can throw a great punch. let's see if he can take a punch, a minute later, the guy was flat on his back, and that's

what i'm saying about desantis. >> exactly. >> we see desantis throwing a lot of punches in florida. when he gets on that big stage, particularly against donald trump, let's see if he can take a real punch. >> right. >> yeah. >> yeah, ron desantis is an idea, an alternative to donald trump for a lot of people. we haven't seen it yet displayed on a national level. michael steele, paul ryan's comment got a lot of attention when he said donald trump is a proven loser. i can't imagine him getting the nomination. are you kidding? you can't imagine donald trump getting the nomination? have we learned nothing? of course he can get the nomination, he's the front runner. are there enough republicans, do nikki haley, mike pence and others believe that donald trump is so weakened that they can take the nomination from him? how do you see this potential field shaping up? >> i agree with joe's assessment, and the ali references by rev is an excellent one. that is the guy. that's where he is.

you know, yeah, he's slowing politically, and i've said from the very beginning, yeah, he may be slowing politically but he still has the ability to maneuver inside the ring. he is still the guy that they're going to have to go through to the nomination. and that's going to require pulling together a number of things, so in the clip where governor hailey is talking about, am i that person, the people who get to decide is the base of republican party. i don't see a lot of people jumping up and down and saying, nikki, run, i don't see people saying desantis run, except the business class of the gop. now, the folks in coach have a whole different point of view about where this plane is ultimately going to go. and they know that at the end of the day, the pilot is on their side, and so i think people need to slow their roll a little bit

here. wait until trump gets in the ring again, and actually engages. trump is not engaged with anybody. all he has done is announced, yeah, i'm running for president. he hasn't engaged on any level with anyone. so until we see that, joe, you have nailed the exact space we're in here. you all need to calm it down, see what he does, because whether or not these folks can take a punch for him decides how far they go in this election cycle. >> again, i actually -- sometimes sports analogies don't fit tightly. i got to say here, it fits perfectly. you get two boxers in a ring. you find out really quickly who the champ is and who the pretender is. you get two people up on the debate stage and one starts sweating profusely, like you know immediately who the pretender is and who the champ is, and the champ goes in, mocks

him for sweating, and then jabs, jabs, jabs. he sweats a little bit more, and then just goes in for the kill. trump did that with 16 people in 2016. and, again, i haven't seen anybody that can get in his face, that's good enough to get in his face. i had a good friend of mine, a republican friend that was at the desantis inauguration, and he said business leaders from across the country were flying in. they were lined up as far as you could see to just be in the presence of ron desantis. i said, yeah, and a lot of those guys, they were doing the same thing with jeb bush in 2015. so we'll see. maybe desantis can take a punch. my guess is just all of us talking right now, my guess is desantis says wait a second, why do i go to the meat grinder to

chew up and spit out 16 republicans politically. why don't i let trump run again. i'll serve out my term. i'll end up with 80% approval ratings among republicans, and then in '26 i open my presidential campaign, and i don't have to even take on -- >> deal with this. >>-the challenge, right. i think that's probably what he's thinking in tallahassee. i think he knows he does not want to cross donald trump on a debate stage. >> interesting. interesting. coming up, today marks the halfway point of joe biden's first term. steve kornacki will be at the big board to break down what biden needs to watch out for in his next two years with a look back at some past presidencies. plus, vanity fair's molly jong bass joins us with her new piece on quote, the not particularly talented mr. santos. and what the saga says about

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united states capitol. it's 6:48 on a friday morning. today in germany, leaders from 50 nations will meet at the ramstein air base to discuss next steps in helping ukraine. allies are discussing a major infusion of military aid including armored vehicles, rockets, missiles and more. joining us live from central kyiv is nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez. what more can you tell us about today's meeting? >> reporter: willie, that meeting at ramstein air base is

underway now as we speak. u.s. defense secretary lloyd austin is there along with his counter parts from across nato, and the big question at the top of the agenda is whether the nato allies are going to start sending battle tanks to ukraine. now, tanks may feel like something of a world war ii relic, especially in this age of drones and precision missiles, but the reality is so much of the fighting right now is happening along that vast front line in the east of ukraine. and ukrainian officials from president zelenskyy on downwards are saying tanks will be crucial for that effort. zelenskyy spoke virtually to that summit at ram stein. i want you to stake a listen to a little bit of what he had to say. >> i'm addressing you, acceptable for their children. it is a time now to protect those dreams. this is the future. i'm sure you do not want to allow such world order where hatred were the rule. your parents would not want that

kind of war for you. you would not such a world for your children. but this is exactly such a world that russia seeks for all of us. not only for ukraine, but for the whole world. >> reporter: now, all eyes at that summit are on germany and whether germany is going to allow for its leopard tanks to be given to ukraine. a number of allies across eastern europe have those leopard tanks. they are considered top of the line vehicles but because they're made in germany, the germans need to give permission before they can be given to the ukrainians and that is not a step right now that german chancellor olaf scholz is prepared to take. partly there is a long pacifist tradition in germany, especially on the left of the political spectrum there where his social democratic party is from. partly of course germany much more vulnerable to retaliation

from russia in terms of energy supplies, so the german position right now is they are not prepared to allow those tanks to go to ukraine unless the u.s. sends tanks of its own, and willie, that is a position that is really frustrating the white house. american officials say the american tanks, the m1 abrams are not practical for ukraine. they require incredibly specialized maintenance, and they are gas guzzlers, they can get through a gallon of gasoline a minute at certain times. the leopard tanks, they're easier to maintain. they are in europe already. the spare parts are in europe already. and the u.s. is saying that is just a much more practical solution. the other point that u.s. officials make is that the u.s. is by far the biggest military aid contributor to ukraine fighting what we all know is the largest war in europe since the second world war. and they say we are already contributing a lot. president biden has just announced the latest defense

package. it is $2.5 billion. it includes a lot of what we are used to hearing in these packages. thousands of rounds of artillery shells. 2,000 anti-armor rockets, but what is new in this package are 90 striker armored personnel carriers. these are carriers designed to move infantry quickly across the battlefield and the u.s. says as this fighting continues in the east, they hope these vehicles will help ukraine try to make ground, especially before the russians regroup for what officials here in kyiv fear could be a renewed russian offensive possibly starting as early as the next few weeks. willie. >> and all of this conversation in germany takes place just a few days after the uk announced it will send 14 of those challenger 2 battle tanks into the fight. nbc's raf sanchez in central kyiv for us this morning.

rav, thank you so much. just ahead on "morning joe," it's still very early, of course, but donald trump's presidential campaign lacking support from one key group, and that is evangelicals. we'll look at his strained relationship with the conservative voting block, just ahead on "morning joe." ervative ahead on "morning joe. realtor.com (in a whisper) can we even afford this house? maybe jacob can finally get a job. the house whisperer! this house says use realtor.com to see homes in your budget. you're staying in school, jacob! realtor.com. to each their home. ♪♪ over the last 100 years, lincoln's witnessed a good bit of history. even made some themselves. makes you wonder... what will they do for an encore? ♪♪

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quote, 22 days after the january 6th, 2021, attack on the u.s. capitol, kevin mccarthy visited mar-a-lago and posed with a guy who not only encouraged the rioters but apparently delighted in their desire to hang his vice president mike pence. like so many republicans, mccarthy who initially condemned donald trump's behavior wanted to have it both ways. he could try distancing himself from trump but fully breaking with maga would be too painful. the former president had a hold on the gop base and was raking in the donations. since finally fulfilling his dream of becoming house speaker, mccarthy is again trying to have it both ways in keeping george santos at arm's length while still keeping him and his precious seat in the republican column, and molly continues, but while santos may take lying to

another level, his willingness to deceive the public, along with republicans, tolerating or excusing such behavior isn't ouch character with today's gop. remember, mccarthy, along with 138 other house republicans were willing to overturn the will of the american people to validate trump's stolen election lies, while also looking the other way for four years as the former president made more than 30,000 false or misleading claims, the message republicans sent even before santos is that lying to americans is acceptable if it's in the pursuit of power, and in this case, you know, molly, there's just revelation after revelation about george santos, many are disturbing and many point to someone, i'll make a parallel to trump who's unfit for the office, and potentially mentally unfit. what do republicans or what

should they be doing in this case, the practical matter is they do need his vote. >> i think they should take a little pain to get rid of him, silly allegations he wore, the stolen scarf to the larger allegations of campaign finance problems. >> and sick lies about his mother and things like that, so do you ultimately make a connection to kevin mccarthy on this. >> yes. mccarthy has doomed himself by wanting the speakership so badly he was willing to do anything. you saw he went to mar-a-lago. he didn't want to take the pain of losing small dollar donations. he really wanted to just go along to get along, and he thought he could do it. every time he made a compromise like that, he got himself in a worse problem. >> this is not going to go well, rev, with george santos. there's no good ending here. >> there's no good ending, and

molly, as you write about santos, not only has he lowered the bar of what it means to be qualified to serve in office, anybody, because clearly he appears to have a pathology here that is maddening, but that anybody can get away with almost anything and still not look as bad as santos. but does it also show the lack of principle and character in mccarthy. i mean, it's one thing to be speaker, but it's another to be a speaker that nobody has any respect or regard for because you stand for anything. tell us about what we learned about mccarthy and how he's just a enjoy that stands for something. >> i think he's just allowed himself to be bullied, right? >> he has no job security. >> right, and he has a one person motion to vacate. one of the things about nancy pelosi, you could love her or hate her, but people respected her and were slightly afraid of

her, and you don't have that here. you have somebody who's like a golden retriever, which has been written about him before. >> the ability to be effective. molly jong-fast, great piece, thank you very much for being on this morning. it's two minutes past the top of the hour. as donald trump looks to retake the white house in 2024, tensions are growing between the former president and one of the key groups that help propel him to the oval office in 2016. evangelicals. in a radio interview this week, trump had a prickly response when asked about evangelical leaders who may choose to support other candidates in the next presidential election. take a listen. >> well, i don't really care. look, that's a sign of disloyalty. there's great disloyalty in the world of politics and that's a sign of disloyalty because nobody, as you know, and you would know better than anybody because you do such a great job, nobody has ever done more for right to life than donald trump. i put three supreme court

justices who all voted and they got something that they have been fighting for for 64 years or many many years. >> right. >> nobody thought they could win it. they won. roe v. wade, they won, they finally won, and i was a little disappointed because i thought they could have fought much harder during the election, during the '22 election, because, you know, they won and a lot of them didn't fight or weren't really around to fight, and it did energize the democrats. a lot of the people that wanted and fought for years to get it, and they sort of, i don't know, they weren't there protesting and doing what they could have done. with all of that being said, there's nobody that's done more for the movement than i have, and that includes the movement of evangelicals and christians and the movement very much of right to life. >> it's remarkable. the guy, i mean, even in the small details, he just can't tell the truth. he talks about they have been fighting about this for 64

years. no. roe was around for 49. he just adds 15 years on to it. he kept talking about the pandemic of, what, 1917. it's very strange. very everything. just remains very strange. let's bring in "new york times" political correspondent michael c. bender. michael wrote the article about evangelical leaders and why donald trump is being disloyal. but gauge the support for the former president. also with us "new york times" opinion columnist david french. so let's first talk about the story, and michael, give us your take. what did you learn? >> i think this is going to be one of the central tensions here heading into the 2024 primary for the republican party. i mean, we've seen donald trump shedding support from republicans going back to 2020, right? i mean, that was one of the reasons he lost to joe biden. he lost 9% of republicans in

2020 did not vote for trump. might not sound like a lot, but that was more than twice the democrats that biden shed. he can't win a national election without holding your party tight these days. and evangelicals, evangelical leaders are every bit as pragmatic as republican donors, as ceos. they want to be with a winner and, trump cannot afford to lose their support. what we're seeing here is robert jeffers, a big name pastor in texas has remained neutral, one of trump's early supporters. bob vander plat, a supporter in iowa told us in this piece that it's time to turn the page. you know, they are very appreciative of what trump has done with them. that have an uneasy alliance for several years, support ago thrice married, former darling of the new york tabloids in order to, you know, get really a bucket list of campaign promises on the hard right. on the evangelical right.

but now they want to win the white house and they're not sure if trump is the right guy to do it. >> so, david french, what did we learn? what did you and i learn about evangelical leaders in the age of trump? what we learned was they're not leaders. they're followers. they follow the flock. this is one of the things that we've had some guests on before, pastor stanley on talking about how discourages he was that, you know, if people in the flock told the pastors not to support vaccines and not to support basic medicine, they wouldn't do it. so this goes back to reverend al's question earlier, like who's going to knock out the champ? trump is the champ, and the same people that wanted to give money to jeb bush in 2015 now want to

give it to ron desantis, but are those evangelical leaders going to stand up to trump if the people in the pews are all supporting him? history suggests no. >> i mean, we know the answer pretty clearly at this point. i mean, what's the old french revolutionary quote? there go the people, i must follow them for i am their leader. they're going to go where the people ultimately go. now, i do think we're in a stage that we were in not dissimilar, not terribly dissimilar from late 2015 to early 2016 when it wasn't clear that trump was going to be the nominee yet. as soon as it became clear that trump was going to be the nominee, the evangelical leadership fell in line. why did the evangelical leadership fall in line. it's not because trump was suddenly a better person? >> what about after access hollywood? everybody said, oh, i must

leave. we can no longer support donald trump. this is the most offensive thing. oh, wait, everybody in my congregation still likes him, okay. we're good with donald trump. after the access hollywood tape. >> yeah, well, michael's keyword was pragmatic here. what we are seeing are a lot of pragmatic calculations, not really principled calculations. there might have been slow bleed of support over the years for principled reasons, but the 2022 elections changed the practicalities of the situation. what happened is a lot of people, then, they didn't just look at 2022, they started to rethink it all. 2020, 2018, and so there's an increasing number of people that are saying no to donald trump, not because of all of the things that donald trump has done, but just because they're no longer comfort that he's a winner. if they start to believe he could win again. if they start to believe he's a

winner again or if he wins the primary again, they'll all be right back because that's the keyword. this is a pragmatic matter right now. they have lost confidence in him. it's not that they don't -- it's not that they have suddenly awakened that he's not a person -- that he's a person of low character. it's that they've lost confidence in his ability to win. >> you know, michael, joe mentions the access hollywood tape. i'm also remembering the news that donald trump had paid off through his representatives a porn star with whom he was having an affair while his wife was home with a newborn child, and you would always hear the same refrain, hey, we elected a president, not a saint. treating him as a rascal who was going to look out for him, regardless of his character. do you see not just among leadership but do you see real change in your reporting among evangelical voters. are they, more broadly, republicans, are looking for an alternative to donald trump? >> no, it's a very good question. and one of my -- i think one of

the resonant moments that really underscored the tenuous relationship between trump and evangelicals was in 2016 when jerry falwell jr. endorsed donald trump, went to trump tower, took a picture with him in front of trump's me wall with all the covers of magazines, in the picture. right over the shoulder of jerry falwell's wife was the cover of a playboy magazine, and that for me has always encapsulated the give and take of this relationship. there is some trump fatigue among republican voters, certainly after the 2022 midterms. you know, the polls recently haven't been so clear. are the polls in november and december going to be -- are they a trend? are they sort of a trend for donald trump or a low point? and, you know, some of the discussion that's happened here

already, even in our piece, robert jeffer, this pastor in dallas said back in november he wasn't endorses trump because he saw a civil war coming inside the republican party, and wanted no part of it. fast forward when i talked to him this week, he started anticipating an eventual endorsement of trump, saying that evangelicals are going to coalesce around him. probably, and that trump is the most likely nominee for the party. much more softer language than he had used just a couple of months ago. that's definitely going to be a thing to watch, and trump, you know, to his political credit, he has proven an ability to cleve conservative voters away from their long time leaders as he did in 2015 and 2016, you know, with this interview this week we saw him trying to do -- trying to use those same tactics here with evangelicals in particular.

>> "new york times" political correspondent michael c. bender, fascinating. thank you very much. >> thank you. so michael steele, let's pull back a little bit because people watching "morning joe" this morning that watch regularly, i could understand why they might have vertigo because we're talking about donald trump, he's still inevitable, he's still the champ, right? huge caveat when you're talking about him winning the republican nomination, when we just heard from michael bender and we can get the evangelical numbers back on the screen. this explains, yes, they will line up for him in the primary, but when you're looking at donald trump basically being 50/50 among evangelical voters,

45% being unfavorable, this is why i keep saying. you take these numbers and the increasing toxicity that donald trump has among his most loyal base, and then you start mixing that with pro choice voters, start mixing that with suburban women in atlanta, in philadelphia, in milwaukee, in detroit, you suddenly realize that here we are. all right, you can take that down now. here we are, they've got a catch 22. these preachers know. yeah, like jeffers said, yeah, he can win the republican nomination, he probably will. he'll lose again. i don't know if you know this or not, but donald trump led the republicans to losing in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2022. these evangelical leaders know he's going to lose again in 2024 if he runs in the general

election. so they're stuck with this guy that -- like he's like the guest who won't leave. and he keeps losing for them, and they can't get him out the front door fast enough. >> well, so the practical politics of this, for me at least, very stark when it comes to the evangelical voters out there. for me, at the end of the day, just because you lay your hands on the devil doesn't make him a saint. and they knew full well what they were getting. so the practical, oh, yeah, he's a winner, he's a winner, he's a winner. donald trump's view is, as he said in the interview, i delivered what you wanted, i gave you the supreme court justices to give you the one thing you wanted, and that was to overturn roe v. wade. this is how you repay me? folks need to understand -- >> that's called politics, by

the way, michael steele. that's what happens. republicans helped in the cold war and voters say, okay, we don't need tough foreign policy leaders. we'll elect bill clinton. this is what happens. >> that's true. >> you gave us the supreme court, donald, thank you, bye bye. >> that's true. >> that's what they're saying right now. >> but donald trump is not a kevin mccarthy. he's not just going to roll over and go, okay, that's not how this plays out. i keep telling folks, when the man engages, let's see how he engages, when he decides it's time to take down these disloyal pastors, he will take them down, and you know who will help take them down? their very congregants. so the reality for donald trump is the leaderships are the tools. those are the tools for him. he knows where his bread is buttered. it's the base. so as long as, you know, he's at

53%, he's not worried about the 45%. remember, this is a man who went through four years, never cracked 45, 46%. and still wreaked havoc, so, you know, i think, you know, to what david french was saying, and the great pieces that david has written on this, if we really want to understand this narrative, read the works of david french because he lays it out, helps you contextualize, not just the influence but the ongoing impact there has not, in my view, been a recess away pr -- from donald trump from rank and file voters at the end of the day. we're talking about the leadership. we're talking about the money class in the last hour. we're now talking about the pastors in this hour. you're not talking about the people in the pew and you're not talking about the people who lick the stamps in the campaign. that's where donald trump's strength still lies.

>> so reverend al, though, he did deliver. but he also made fools of evangelical leaders, did he not? >> he definitely did, he embarrassed them. and i think that in your question is the answer. he delivered, and now they have little use for him. yeah, you did give us the supreme court, and you did do things that we needed done that nobody else could have done but you are absolutely something that we detest. >> abhor rant. >> -- abhorrent. >> in your behavior. and we still have to deal with you. their congregants have to go home with their wives saying how could you be with this guy. the minute they could get away, they did. donald trump always saw them as the microphone to speak through their congregants.

he never saw them as anybody he cared about. he does not care if evangelical leaders golfed with him at his golf course, he wanted access to their people, and he will be reckless in how he deals with them. i'll say again like i say about the potential republican opponents, can they take a punch, many of them have never been challenged. donald trump will come after them. >> the relationship is transactional, donald trump was getting something from the evangelical leaders, they were getting is something from him. now they are just elites, just in the same way that the big bankers who are going to fund raise and bankroll ron desantis, they are going to just fall in line with their congregants, and i see now shift. when we were out in focus groups the last go around, you would hear from plenty of republican voters, they still are sticking with trump. i'll be interested to hear what the next round says, but i just, i don't see much of a shift.

it has to be pretty dramatic for donald trump to not get the republican nomination. >> willie? >> and as trump said in that sound bite we played a minute ago, he did seat three supreme court justices who overturned roe v. wade which is of course the holy grail for nearly a hatch century. david french, i'm curious beyond just the evangelical base, your assessment of the conversation about some of these challengers to donald trump, nikki haley sending out signals, mike pompeo doing the same, mike pence. there is a group to go along with ron desantis who we have seen in head-to-head polls still trailing donald trump that may step into the fight. do you think there is going to be a field that takes on donald trump or are they going to shrink from him again? >> i think there will be. the size, i just don't have any clue as to what size the field will be. and i think when people see the desantis numbers, they don't see that necessarily as pure desantis loyalists.

what they see is that's the potential vote against trump. and so they see it as, look, trump right now is polling well, but he's not dominant, there is this florida governor, desantis, who is matching him or beating him in some states, and depending on the poll in some national republican primary polls, and i think people see that as saying, oh, that's the group that's in play. that's the group that's available. i don't think that they think of it as that's the group that's locked in for desantis. there's a group locked in for trump, and we have the leftovers. i think they see it very differently. there will be a field. i do think the difference between 2015 and 2016 is a lot of folks in 2015 and 2016 stayed in way longer than they ordinarily would have stayed in because they couldn't grasp that donald trump was going to win this thing. i hope you would see more conventional decision making where people who are not getting traction would drop out and

therefore not continue to split the vote. the other thing to remember is even the people who are saying that they would vote for desantis, their votes are in play at least so some extent, the vast majority of them still like donald trump. they still have -- they still have some pretty high regard for him. it's not that they have rejected him completely. many of them just see desantis or maybe another republican as the winner, as a winner, and that's the really important thing. the vast majority of these people, if trump gets the nomination will fall in line exactly like they did in 2016. through the present moment. >> "new york times" opinion columnist, david french, rev and al sharpton, and michael steele, thank you all for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," an inside look at saudi arabia's trillion dollar pr campaign to win over the west. nbc's keir simmons joins us with

that story. across the country, union membership dropped to a low. also this morning, actor, jesse eisenberg has made a solid career in front of the camera. he joins us ahead with a look at his latest project "behind it." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. back then we could barely afford a hostel. i'm glad we invested for the long term with vanguard. and now, we're back here again... no jobs, no kids, just us. and our advisor is preparing us for what lies ahead. only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor you're an owner. giving you confidence throughout today's longer retirement. that's the value of ownership. my husband and i have never been more active. throughout today's longer retirement. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers.

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influential in the world. maybe that's because the crown prince is more assertive. maybe it's because saudi arabia's economy is doing very very well in a world where economies are not doing so well. and, you know, when we speak to experts here at the world economic forum, they say because the world hasn't ramped up its clean energy, the fossil fuel production has been ramping down, because of that, saudi arabia is likely to be at least economically powerful well into the future. we wanted to look at what that means for the world and for america. >> still loose for rinaldo, and second try is the charm. >> reporter: soccer superstar, christian renaldo, earning $200 million a year the saudis are paying him. the kingdom offering hundreds of millions more to golfers like

phil mickelson, saudi arabia's spending spree is stunning. a year ago, a human rights reporter accused the country of using $1.5 billion on what it called sports washing, and the fire hose of money has kept coming. saudi desperate to move on, krit ticks say from the murder of jamal khashoggi or saudi arabia's connection to 9/11. during global television coverage of the world cup in neighboring qatar, saudi arabia ran commercials for its surging red sea tourism industry. now there are rumors it may itself be able to host the world cup in 2030. and it isn't only soccer and golf in the swiss alps, thousands of miles away. this week, the kingdom bought three separate sites.

then it can afford it. while the world worries about recession, oil producer saudi aramco saw profits rise by 90% last year. we were invited to meet the minister of economy, one of many who were flown in. >> we have nine members, including seven ministers. >> that's a substantial part of the saudi government. >> yes. >> he insists saudi arabia is in the process of changing completely. with women now working, many young people allowed to go to live music concerts. >> you want to change the image of saudi arabia. >> it's not about the image. it's about the work, the results. >> but you want to change how people perceive saudi arabia. >> obviously that's a by-product. we want it to be fear, that's all. >> reporter: in fairness, the saudi record of recent years has been mixed to say the least. crown prince mohammed bin salmon is condemned for the killing of

khashoggi, and a military operation in yemen, or for his closeness to president putin, the list goes on. last year he fist bumped with president biden, and with russia, cut oil production against the president's wishes, although oil prices have since come down. and in december, he welcomed china's president xi. these days, the chinese buy a lot of saudi oil. you say with all of these meetings, you're bridging global divide. the accusation is you're too close to the russians, for example, the chinese. >> saudi arabia has strong relations with all of its partners. >> reporter: that's it? that's the answer? and america should just know that, what's the message to america? >> we have a very strong relationship with the u.s. as we discussed. >> reporter: the saudi plan is to move away from reliance on oil. at another exhibition, plans for a new saudi city, carbon neutral. >> saudi arabia from my

perspective is on saudi arabia's site, and that is a side that is very good for the whole world. >> reporter: this year, the saudi government said it helped with negotiations to persuade russia to release brittney griner and with america's nuclear negotiations with iran stalled, it may need saudi support. despite all the ups and downs, this is as recently as a few months ago when there was a serious iranian threat, america dispatched fighter jets. this is a crucial relationship for both countries. >> reporter: saudi arabia has been a strategic partner to america through many turbulent times. both sides accuse each other of being often unreliable. but then in 2023, the whole world is unpredictable. and the economy minister, joe, who you heard talking to me in any report, talked about 70 years of a strategic relationship with the u.s. you won't get the saudis to at

least publicly criticize the u.s., perhaps you could describe them as walking a line, maybe they're just facing the realities of the world in 2023. >> talking about sports washing, people don't understand how it's shaken up total leagues completely. new castle was at the bottom of the table in the premier league as you know very well. in britain, the saudis have made them champs overnight. they could win the premier league. they certainly are going to be the champions league, and again, to break into the premier league like that, that's just an extraordinary amount of money. i'm curious, though. i understand it's not just saudi arabia. it's a lot of other countries in the region that want to be non-aligned. they want to be friends with the united states, china, russia, all at the same time. i'm curious, though, this big push that they're making globally, this big pr push,

seems to -- i'm still trying to get my arms around what mbs did to biden, did the fist bump, then humiliated him a couple of weeks ago, a couple of weeks later, sided with russia, hoping that gas prices would go up. after biden did something that cost him a lot at home politically, and it didn't make sense. and after two years, he's finally sort of let out of the corner diplomatically, and then he basically just shoves a hand in biden's face. have you gotten anymore insight from that? when some of his closest friends and allies had told him not to do it? >> reporter: yeah, look, i mean, on new castle united side of things, money talks. they like that saudi money because they're side is winning. there's a reality about that. and then i think in terms of your question, look, in the end,

you heard the answer from the analyst, in the end, saudi arabia is looking after saudi arabia, i think it is thinking about making sure you continue to make the money it wants to make. it wants, i think, around $90 oil. the u.s. seems to want about $70. in a way, that's a kind of negotiation over money. and then you're right, saudi arabia isn't the only country doing this. just look at the chancellor, german chancellor, heading to meet with president xi last year, and insisting he manage to persuade the chinese to tell russia not to threaten nukes. so it's a complex picture, i think, is the honest answer. it's a very very complex world right now. and saudi arabia is navigating that. and perhaps, you could argue, doesn't care as much about u.s. domestic politics as the u.s.

president does. >> keir, you have been telling us all week that ukraine is a big topics of discussion there in davos. but as we talked this morning, there's a meeting happening at ramstein air base in germany, led by lloyd austin about gathering more defense, more weapons, more arms, sending more tanks from european countries into ukraine. what do you expect to hear out of that meeting? >> well, i think one thing to say, willie, which is really important. in the past 24 hours, we have seen something they're called the pledge, a group of european countries, eastern european countries pledging, together we will continue supporting ukraine to move from resisting to expelling russian forces from ukrainian soil. there is a group of europeans who are saying we don't want to just help ukraine to defend itself. we want to help ukraine to win this battle this year. and then you have this argument

over tanks, germany, still not prepared to supply leopard 2 tanks. the u.s. not looking like it's going to supply tanks, the tanks ukrainians say they need to achieve, they think america should be pushing for. this is a crunch meeting today in germany between the defense ministers. look closely, not just for the headlines but for what's really going to be delivered in ukraine because we are facing now in the months ahead a push by the ukrainians and a push by the russians on the battlefield that could be a deciding factor in where we end up in all of this at the end of 2023. >> nbc's keir simmons, covering a lot of ground for us, live from the world economic forum in davos switzerland. keir, thank you so much. coming up next, vladimir putin bet big on using energy as a weapon against europe this winter. so far, that like so much he has done in the last year, has backfired. we'll dig into how his decision

is digging into global influence and the war in ukraine. "morning joe" is coming right back. r in ukraine "morning joe" is coming right back research shows people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. did you know that liberty mutual custo— ♪liberty mutual♪ ♪ only pay for what you need♪ ♪only pay for what you need♪ ♪ custom home insurance created for you all♪ ♪now the song is done♪ ♪back to living in your wall♪ they're just gonna live in there? ♪yes♪ only pay for what you need. ♪liberty liberty liberty♪ ♪liberty♪

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. 41 past the hour. it was in september that russian president vladimir putin attended an economic forum in russia's far east where responding to then proposals by the eu to implement price caps on russian energy imports. the russian leader threatened to cut off all supplies to europe in a move he warned could freeze the continent. the eu responded by slashing energy imports from russia and putin's threat of a possible freeze has stalled. joining us now, professor and manager in practice, senior associate at dean yale school of

management, jeffrey sonnenfeld, his latest piece "the world economy no longer needs russia," in it, you write this, for much of the past year and since his invasion of ukraine last february, russian president vladimir putin has been riding high on his supposed energy omnipotence holding the global economy hostage to his whims. now as we approach the one-year anniversary, if you can believe it, of putin's invasion, it is apparent that russia has permanently forfeited its economic might in the global marketplace, thanks to an unseasonably warm winter in europe, putin's moment of maximum leverage has passed uneventfully as we correctly forecast last november the biggest victim of putin's gam butt was russia its. the gas leverage is nonexistent as the world and most importantly europe no longer

needs russian gas, and, joe, this was the issue when the war started, get off our need for foreign energy whether it be the u.s. or europe. >> yeah, and by the way, dean, we predicted this. we laughed when vladimir putin was talking about using russian energy as leverage over the europeans. this is a problem with autocrats that don't understand the market. oh, you're going to take it away from europe, oh, well, that will just require europe to find a market elsewhere which they have done, which makes russia even more irrelevant. it's mind boggling how many mistakes this guy has made. >> you're so right, joe and mika. you absolutely nailed it. i'll try to add a little value to what you've said, but it's hard to because you covered it so well. in your last exchange with keir simmons, that he didn't have time to fully answer, you asked,

weren't there pressures from other gulf nations on the saudis to not loosen up. there's plenty of supply on those other gulf nations. you're exactly right, they wanted to keep the supply up, and russia, as he was threatening to cut production, their production was up despite all of their threats. among my many weaknesses, one of my character flaws, i can't stand a bully, this is the worst bully who has walked the face of the earth, according to general milley, he was using the bravado of food and fuel. this is not a super power. they bring nothing to the global marketplace other than raw materials. food and fuel and some metals. we have found other supplies for all of this. they are basically like a mercantile. the added value is cyber terrorism, nobody wants to buy that. >> dean, i want to circle back. i'm so glad you brought up the saudi segment because i want our viewers to know something that we don't say enough on the show,

that actually governments in that region and other petro fueled economies, most understand that their oil supplies run out in 20 years. and i don't think we talk about that enough. they all understand the clock is ticking. so why is saudi arabia rushing around, trying to diversify, why are all of these other countries rushing around, trying to diversify, the clock is ticking on them because they're going to be out of oil in 20 years. >> no, that's exactly right. it was a paradox in keir's report as you discussed it. he happened to mention par , another paradox in his piece, it's not that saudi arabia is

more powerful and that's why they're courting everybody, they're on this charm offensive because they, in fact, are in big trouble, and we can see the oil price now, like the gas prices too, are lower than they were a year ago, despite all the threats, all the perhaps conflicts oil industry, voices we hear on other networks and places is, in fact, oil and gas are lower. we found alternative sources for platinum, and all the other rare metals were having trouble in russia. we found other sources for it. putin was saying, i'm going to cut off gas. you're going to have this freezing cold, horrific winter in europe because we're going to cut off gas. 86% of his gas went to europe, which was 46% of which europe took. now, we provide more to europe than russia did at its peak, and russia is down to like 7% from 46%. but we and norway, and algeria are providing the gas that they need, and again, it's hatch the

price it was when we met last time, and it's remarkable. it's true of oil has fallen. people, just between us, j.p. morgan is saying, oil is $380 a barrel by now. i don't think so. it's been around the high 60s to 80 where it is today. >> and as we discussed last time, elise. last time jeffrey was on the show, as we discussed, as russia makes this decision, and they're actually doing europe a favor by making them less dependent on russian oil, jeffrey predicted it, the "wall street journal" reported it a couple of days ago. now russia is having to sell their oil, where? to india, to china, and because it's harder to get it there, and it costs more to get it there, india and china are paying less. they're paying less than germany and other european countries were. so this has been a lose-lose for

putin. >> everyone seems to have benefitted somewhat except putin. and especially the karma of the warmer winter, that just -- i love that. less oil is necessary because it's actually a little bit warmer this year. what i don't understand is the saudis seemingly sided with russia a bit when they cut oil production back in october. why do we still keep selling them weapons systems? >> well, elise, you put your finger on something that "morning joe" should celebrate. honest to goodness, on that show, when we talked about that, the congressman ro khanna and senator dick blumenthal were just introducing some legislation, i believe on that show, senator bob menendez, these are chairs of armed services committee, they put a pause right after that show on the saudi weapons transfers, which is massive. we were giving up until now, the full intellectual property, as

well as full production of these weapons systems that we don't give all of our allies combined. that's been put on a pause and the saudis are feeling the pressure. >> intellectual property is paused, that's incredible. i had no idea it was that close of a relationship. >> it was frightening, the production, ownership, financial control. these are the most sensitive weapons we have. everything short of the nuclear code. that has been put on pause thankfully, but not permanently, and at least the saudis do feel that pressure, and yes, russia, this was their source. 2/3 of their economy we're talking about is the energy economy, and they said they're going to pivot to sell it to t. people fell for that. economists. the imf fell for it. it takes pipelines to get the natural gas there and they don't have the pipelines. we sell them liquefied natural gas converted back to natural gas. >> jonathan? >> yeah.

certainly who i have spoken to at the beginning of this war did fear the winter and a real test for europe and to the point winter has bailed out the russian army many times in the past. it did not this time. certainly the biden officials i spoke to here staying with kyiv and discussing all morning with the military commitments but they also see this impact of not just the reduced gas sales but the sanctions are starting to rattle the russian economy making a big difference. while putin has no real internal threat yet it is harder to make the case for the war. >> a resident of the great connecticut, jeffrey sonnen feld, thank you for being on

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just a few minutes before the top of the third hour of "morning joe." time to look at the morning papers. a new legal challenge to missouri's abortion ban. a group of religious leaders that support abortion rights filed a lawsuit yesterday saying lawmakers used their own ideas and imposing the beliefs on others who don't share them. in north carolina, raleigh's

news and observer reports fewer passengers caught with guns across the state. the tsa found 250 guns on passengers or in bags in 2022 down from the year before nationwide. the agency found more than 6,500 firearms last year. a 9.5% increase from the year before. in wisconsin, the milwaukee journal sentinel is reporting on the lack of ice covering on the great lakes. according to the paper ice has been slow to form this year with 3% of the lakes covered, a near record low and could be harmful to the lake's ecosystems. they need that ice. still ahead, a live report from the white house as president biden marks two years in the oval office. "morning joe" will be right back.

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it's the top of the third hour of "morning joe." welcome back. it is friday, everyone. are we glad? i'm very glad. january 20th. long week, guys. >> you know, this is a special day. >> what? oh no. >> very special day. what are you doing? >> what are you doing? >> i love my children. >> your birthday? >> willie's is may 3rd. >> i'm 56, right? >> hmm? >> no, no, sweetie. you are 55. we were walking around the neighborhood the other day. she goes, my god i'm 57 years

old. i feel praet good for 57. i said there's a real, sweetie. because you are 55. she was only two years off. >> so confused. >> lost the thread a little bit. >> exactly? you have lost it. >> i turned into my mom. >> she thinks my birthday is in august. >> yes, i do. >> true story. true story. she still doesn't know where she was born. >> i don't. >> she thinks it is new york city. >> what do you mean? >> because i asked my mother, willie. she says, it was new york city or washington. i don't know. i don't have a birth certificate. i guess i could find out. >> 1967. >> there are ways to find out. records. >> maybe we'll get my real age. maybe i'm 49! no. >> could be. >> i just don't -- i don't know

where i was born. i could look and be curious. a good thing to find out. does it matter? >> anyway -- >> move on. >> two-year anniversary of joe biden. >> oh yes. >> right? >> yeah. >> also the 32rd anniversary of andrew being born. >> andrew's birthday. oh my gosh! happy birthday, andrew. >> slow clap. >> really bad with birthdays. >> a teenager, joe, when we set sail on this effort. a mere teenager. now a full-grown man of 32 years. >> he was. celebrated the 15th year. it is amazing how long we have

been doing this. i look at jack, a grown man. i understand we all, you know, we all went through him being a premie. you told me what we learned talking about jack. 14 years ago, a kid named jack scarborough will be just fine. kid's 6'4" now. you know? >> really tall. >> he is going to -- he can take his dad down any time he wants to. he is kind of laying back. one day, pow. you know? it is amazing. no. the kids have grown up with the show and everything. but just, again, a couple just confirmations here. andrew's 32 today. happy birthday. i love you and so proud of you. you are 55 still. >> writing it down.

>> but the remaining question is, where was mika born? we still don't know. >> i don't know. i don't know. we'll find out some day. >> where are you hiding the documents? where are you hiding the documents? >> we have a birth certificate on "morning joe." >> apply for the birth certificate. enough on this. >> it could be in joe biden's garage right next to the corvette. >> might be. i'll ask. >> comes together. >> ahead this hour, for the first time in a week president biden addressed the classified documents found at the home and private office. plus, we're looking at how many campaign promises he has kept now that he hit the halfway point of the presidency and why the 2024 electoral map for the senate will give republicans a strong chance to flip control of the chamber if party leaders can

keep donald trump from hand picked flawed candidates again. and we're remembering a music icon. more on david crosby's life and long career. he passed yesterday. willie? >> yesterday marked two years as president biden's inauguration. at this halfway point tracking the campaign promises found he's kept a quarter of them so far, including action on health care and covid-19 and less successful with promises on criminal justice. following the midterms will make it more difficult to enact the remaining promises over the next two years. today at the white house president biden will welcome a bipartisan group of mayors before comments celebrating the administration's achievements.

joining us is kristen welker. good morning. >> reporter: good morning why that meeting comes against the backdrop about the president speaking out about the documents controversy and the fact he spoke out about it highlight it is level of concern that the issue is overshadowing his presidency. he was visiting california dent making a first public comments since a special counsel appointed. just to remind everyone, the president's attorneys found them at the private office in d.c. and the delaware home. take a listen to what he had to say. >> found a handful of documents were filed in the wrong place. we immediately turned them over to the archives and the justice department. fully cooperating and looking forward to resolving this quickly. i think you will find there's nothing there. >> reporter: the president added

he has no regrets and on why leaving the key questions unanswered the white house insists they try not to say anything to complicate the doj investigation. this is really a politically significant moment for the president. not only two years since being sworn into office, 2024 is looming large and sources familiar with the matter say that the investigation will not affect the president's potential re-election plans which could come after the state of the union address next month. of course, we didn't know the timing of a potential announcement might be. sources are saying the president wants to focus on being presidential at the state of the union address. so really fraught political backdrop. >> all signs point to him running again. just a question when he does it. chief white house correspondent

kiss ten welker, thank you so much. joe, two years ago two weeks removed from the attack of january 6. fear, chaos. extra security around the inauguration because of that. joe biden was elected by the people that voted for him to sort of steady the country a bit in the years after donald trump. >> it really has. it's been a remarkable two years. i always think about the fact that -- it is not really talked about that much. on tv. the truth is that so many in obama world underestimated joe biden. so many in clinton world underestimated joe biden. people close to the former presidents and secretaries of state. so many people close to them would whisper joe biden will not be a good president. the progressive base ridiculed

him in the 2020 campaign. mocked him after iowa. declared him dead after new hampshire. said he would never survive. it was over. he was too old. he lost too many steps. he was going to be sent packing back to delaware. then he becomes president really in the worst political environment since abraham lincoln in 1861 right after riots and attempt to overthrow his presidency. everybody said the nation is too divided. we won't get things done. the conservative media world continued like donald trump world and donald trump himself underestimating him. and this is not a paid political advertisement for joe biden. this is just reality. what i'm about to tell you are the facts.

this guy constantly underestimated by his political friends and enemies alike has been the most successful president in pushing through legislation than any president since -- i guess ronald reagan? maybe you have to go back to lbj. and don't take my word for it. after the 2022 elections, remember the red wave elections where joe biden supposed to get wiped out again? the party would be destroyed and he would be pushed to the side? after the 2022 elections annuity gingrich said to republicans we have to stop making the same mistake about joe biden. we see him having a problem in the press conference and convince ourself he is not up to the task of being president of the quite. and then while we're laughing at

him he beats us. when we're mocking him he routes us. saying he is not up to being president of the united states he proves we are not up to running against him. if 2020 wasn't enough, and his legislative accomplishments over the last two years aren't enough, you look at 2022. as gingrich said, we are treating this guy the same way democrats treated ike and ronald reagan. they mocked them. they ridiculed them. they said they had dementia. too old. i remember growing up and my mom and dad and my mom's family all just die the wool democrats and i remember asking my mom about ike. she goes, ike bumbled around. he played golf. didn't really do too much.

and that was ike. he got the country saying that about him. he got democrats underestimating him just like ronald reagan and it proved to be a strength. jonathan lemire, this isn't me carrying joe biden's brief into court. this is what republicans are saying to themselves! they're whispering saying we have to stop underestimating this guy because he's beating our brains out politically. >> he has for mostly the last two years. he took office not just two weeks after january 6 when the capitol behind him bore the scars of the riot but the pandemic. this is before the vaccine widely distributed yet. america was a different place than now and been some ups and

downs. summer of '21 with the afghan withdrawal started a slide for the white house but one that it recovered from. a hiccup about the documents but most people in biden world and democrats think it's something with time he can put behind him but the record speaks for itself. bipartisan achievements on the infrastructure bill and a modest gun reform proposal to name a few. democrats got some priorities done last year. things they have wanted to for generations on health care and climate change. we saw voters reward biden and the team at the midterms. there was no red wave and the democrats grew their margins in the senate and this white house as kristen said are gearing up for another campaign announcement in the weeks ahead and feel good about where he is and can point to his record and

say what he has done and contrast him to the other side and seeing that in the house right now with the fringe republicans ascending to positions of power. >> james clyburn of south carolina is convinced joe biden will run again. joining us is former policy director for mitt romney and former special assistance to president biden. he is now managing director at the penta group, a public affairs firm. lon heat, what do you make of the assessment of joe biden? is he the guy getting everything done while the republicans say how do we change the dynamic here? >> i think joe is right the republican party has underestimated president biden. i think it's the case that it's going to be a very interesting

contrast. the next two years leading up to the 2024 election are a time of great testing for the biden administration given the republican house, given the other issues to see floating around. president biden is going to go in to this re-election campaign i would argue as the most progressive president in modern history. if you look at his record, contrast it with president obama and president clinton, joe biden did more to advance the progress agenda. think about the work on student loan debt relief and the inflation reduction act, the stuff rhee yeah executive action and the productivity aft congress this is a president going into the campaign with really a remarkably progressive record and a study in contrast

with the republican nominee. republicans can look at president biden and say, listen, he was underestimated turn after turn but the next two years will be telling. >> michael, nobody knows more than joe biden that politics can turn at the drop of the hat and should not be giddy and the white house faced its -- one of the first really big challenges with this documents scandal. do you agree with the assessment but have they handled this well? was there perhaps a lack of transparency in the messaging from the get-go? >> i agree with joe and the assessment and fire in the white house if it was mike mccurry in the '90s and knew joe and hutchinson on an oversight committee a subpoena is a

subpoena. you take that seriously. they did in the clinton white house but yeah. i think they will have to provide more answers as we go along. i do think he came into office setting a higher standard aen the north star is the law and following the advance of the lawyers. >> and transparency. >> right. that's what i think is drivinging the public relations strategy is not always convenient to the legal advice you get. that's the north star for them and the president is following the law and that is going to drive unfortunately the pr but for the public and the press frustrated i understand. i think if you think back to '92 and james carville, a political hero is speed kills. get it out early and fast. i think they probably would like

to but again the law and the legal advice is driving the communications here. >> these documents, classified, we don't know what the content is and why he potentially had them there. maybe he pulled them to work on the book and -- or misplaced, something to work on for the book. why doesn't the biden administration if it is something that's not sensitive anymore because we know that so much is over classified. why not declassify the documents and have more transparency so we know what was out there if possible? >> yeah. i'm not there. but again i do think that whatever they can do they -- i think they are doing the best they can with very crappy options as jen psaki said the other day. they don't have a lot of good options and i don't know what the legal advisers are saying to

them but that provides a frustration amongst the press and the public because when you are just referring everything from the white house counsel or to doj you are not getting the answers you look for. but again, this president came in to set a higher standard. the approach to responding to classified documents so vastly different. president trump's approach was to say they're mine. president biden said take them. come get them and take them. we don't want them. the lawyers advising to suspend everything they do and hand them over. >> another issue occupying at least some white house time is the debt limit. the united states hit the debt limit yesterday. extraordinary measures are in place according to the treasury department to keep us going into perhaps june or july. doesn't seem to be hope or urgency in the house of

representatives to get a deal done. the white house said we won't negotiate. how bad could it get in terms of the economy? >> it is going to be four months of talk and two weeks of action in june when the extraordinary measures begin to exhaust. i think you will see posturing. both sides have the view that they're right. i think the white house believes this out to be a clean debt ceiling resolution and not attached to it and relative unanimity of republicans for a fiscal restraint and the problem is we have seen this movie before. in 2011 we had the situation between the obama white house and john boehner and mitch mcconnell in the congress. you know who resolved the situation is joe biden. joe biden cut the deal. so he has some experience on this. the economy is going to continue

i would argue to bump along. indicators are to see easing in inflation. causing a problem. we know that economic job markets are going to tighten over the next couple of months. we heard about massive layoffs at google. these are the things that over the next couple of months the overhang is a problem but i don't see it motivating a whole lot of action until the late spring to early summer. >> all right. thank you very much for coming on. thank you both for you analysis. all right. a new report from the bureau of labor statistics says union membership hit a record low last year. in 2022 just 10.1% of workers belonged to a union, a steep drop from the height of organizing in the 1950s. where more than 1 in 3 workers were unionized. joining us now liz schuler,

president of the american federation of labor and congress of industrial organizations. it is really good to have you on the show this morning. joe, we will have to look at how this impacts politics. >> yeah. we will. but, liz, we talked about this before. as everybody knows unions helped build and create the foundation of the middle class in america in post-war america. through the '50s, into '60s, union membership grew. as the new president of the afl-cio you have been going around asking what do we do to grow the membership? how do we become more relevant today? what are the answers to those questions? what are the members telling you? i know you want to talk to small businesses. you want to talk to big businesses. what are you learning? >> you said it.

this is the time. we need to be looking inward saying how can unions be the voice for all working people. certainly union members out there running our economy every day but a lot of working people out there who haven't found the power of a union. can we be the center of gravity for workers? there's a lot of fluidity in the economy. can the labor movement be a place to find the good jobs and make sure they get the pay and benefits and security they deserve? >> steve shatner was on yesterday. things are getting a little bit better but if you look at the small percentage of wealth that is controlled by 50% of americans, so-called bottom

half, it is staggering. listen. as you know i'm a conservative. i don't believe in income redistribution and i don't believe in billionaires becoming trillionaires. now, again, how do you make the sell to people who aren't getting paid enough money while let's say tech giants and other people are raking up billions of dollars? >> absolutely. coming out of covid, you see the corporations making record profits. historic profits. workers were making sacrifices. they were working overtime. doing more with less. you saw a nurses strike in new york not getting the support they need to do the jobs. so i think the economy is out of whack. i saw the charts this week that inequality is still off the

charts. people are continuing to lose ground because workers don't have the power they need to negotiate better conditions and wages on their own. you can do that better coming together. strength in numbers. through a union is the best way we see that to do that. you have the law on your side. you can demand more without the fear of retaliation or being fired. more people recognize that unions are the way to come together collectively and flex the muscle. because certainly coming out of covid people are still struggling. people are still working one, two, three jobs to make ends meet. never mind health care coverage and retirement security. >> good morning. it is an interesting moment for unions. we had the railroad strike. the president pro labor and did

draw criticism for the behavior there. weigh in on that if you like or inflation which has by most measuring cooled but still high. what are the workers telling you they feel day in and day out? >> i have the opportunity to talk with workers every day. the inflation numbers are getting better but they are still struggling because we see it day-to-day at the gas pump, in food prices. working people want stability. they want the economy to work for them. what they see is corporations price gauging, certainly you mentioned the railroad issue. those railroad companies were making billions of dollars historic profits but couldn't give a single sick day. this is about equity and a voice

at the table and workers needing more power to right the scales of the economy. >> liz schuler, thank you so much for being on this morning. >> great to see you, liz. ahead on "morning joe," when donald trump announced a 2024 run there were questions about whether he would freeze out any gop rivals. turns out the field is taking shape with or without him in the picture. we'll big into this. also, jesse aisenberg with a look at the directorial debut and david crosby has passed away. we are remembering his life and legacy. and before we go to break, "morning joe" reporter has a look at the stories we are covering at know your value.com.

>> good morning. first with the unpredictability in the economy and the continuing cost of inflation what should we be doing with our money? we have a piece out on the best smart money moves to make today. we have an interview with olympic fencing bronze medalist, the first muslim american women to wear a hijab while competing at the olympic games and we talk about her about the new children's book and we have all the latest details. the 50 over 50 list continues. these women represent 28 different countries and territories in over 2 dozen industrys. the full list is out now. you will find more information on the upcoming 30-50 summit in

abu dhabi. hillary clinton, gloria sty them, halala, misty copeland and so many more. for information to attend go to know your value.com and "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ ...i'm over 45. ♪ ♪ i realize i'm no spring chicken. ♪ ♪ i know what's right for me. ♪ ♪ i've got a plan to which i'm sticking. ♪ ♪ my doc wrote me the script. ♪ ♪ box came by mail. ♪ ♪ showed up on friday. ♪ ♪ i screened with cologuard and did it my way! ♪ cologuard is a one-of-a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ (group) i did it my way! ♪ people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. ♪customize and save♪ only pay for what you need.

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this morning, joe, we say good-bye to a legend. >> yeah. say good-bye to a music legend, and, willie, yesterday afternoon when we heard that david crosby passed people sending some greatest clips across twitter and across other social media. my gosh, you look at him and what he did in the birds, they

were just absolutely cutting edge. and they were almost -- the birds almost out of time. they were so groundbreaking. and to move from that to all the other great things he did. of course, he is remembered, a big part of the woodstock generation and a brilliant musician, brilliant voice and somebody who will be missed soarly in music. >> crosby, stills, and nash of course but the birds that changed music with dylan, that folk rock. david crosby did die yesterday at age of 81 after a long illness. he was an iconic figure for six

decades. founding member of birds and crosby, stills, nash and young. churned out classic hits like "turn turn turn" with the birds and then the memorable 1969 album "sweet judy blue eyes" with stills and nash. other hits are long time gone and "wooden ships." last may he announced the retirement. he was on "morning joe" about six years ago. he was talking about the inspiration for his music. >> so where do you get your inspiration, after all these years? the love of music? what you do? >> it's usually love. we usually write about love. i do. sometimes something crosses your path and say that's not right

and then the sort of town crier part kicks into gear. wait a minute. america is shooting its own children and we better write "ohio." our job is to make people boogie or on a little emotional voyage. >> so much of the music we know from that period in the 1960s and '70s comes from him. comes from the birds. as i said he's in the hall of fame twice. so good once with the birds and then crosby, stills, nash and young and well documented the troubles with the addiction and illness and personal health and changed artistic expression in america. >> and part of a generation of singers and songwriters and

musicians who changed culture. not only in america but across a western world and the world itself. as i was listening yesterday he was singing with graham nash on the 1971 live performance. so beautiful. the singing so beautiful. the music so beautiful. harmonies so beautiful. his voice so beautiful that i find it hard to imagine that people in the audience in 1971, 1972 moved by that voice than i was in 2022 and of this i'm comfort. 50 years from now people will still be hearing that voice and the same emotions will well up. that's the power of the music of david crosby and those that he played with.

timeless and remarkable. >> it is the soundtrack of our lives. back in december of 2021 alec baldwin said this about the deadly shooting on the set of his movie "rust." >> it wasn't in the script for the trigger to be pulled. >> i didn't pull the trigger. >> never? >> no. never. that was the training i had. >> our next guest said the actor may have hurt himself with his own words. the attorney joins us with the analysis at baldwin faces criminal charges. "morning joe" is back in a moment. like this one! 50% off?! that deal's so good we don't even need an eight-time all-star to tell you about it. wait what? get it before it's gone on the subway app!

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jfk airport in new york, a jetblue plane bumped into another yetblue plane parked on the runway. here's an apology.

>> we would like to apologize for the recent misstep. we take the safety of the passengers seriously. this will not be tolerated. but at least we aren't spirit. >> okay. this is true. >> what? >> yeah. they're not spirit. >> laguardia -- >> yeah? >> because some of the gates are out in lancaster county they had collisions at time -- >> stop. i don't like this joking. >> horse and buggies and jetblue flights. >> okay. we'll move on now. >> willie, i don't know about you but when i have to travel through laguardia i put on the watch. that's where i get my 10,000 steps in. >> i did the other day. >> i got my 10,000 steps getting inside the airport going through security. >> it is a little big. >> next 10,000 trying to find the -- it's the first tri-state

airport. right? i'm going, am i flying out of connecticut, jersey or pennsylvania today. >> yeah. you have to stop and take meals along the way. when you get through security breakfast and then lunch. hit the gate. we have to say laguardia is so much better, than people complained about for years and working to cut through the areas to the gate. >> like a two-story escalator. what if you drop your bag? >> like four stories. i don't know. >> i don't get that. who make that is? >> bathrooms in the small airports to get to the flight in three minutes. seriously. it is a haul. i'm fine but, you know, i'm getting old and a couple years i will have to get a mike barnacle

scooter to get to the gate. >> it is very, very, very, very much extended. put it that way. i have taking young people from action network to a march and they said the march is over, right? i said we haven't got to washington. >> oh my gosh. >> it's that far. >> all right. let's get back to politics. jonathan lemire and politico have reporting about a cause for optimism in the biden. democrats should not be optimistic but okay. the installation of some of the most controversial house republicans to several of the most front facing congressional committees is causing unbridled glee in the west wing. hello! no glee allowed. decisions like putting greene on

the house oversight committee make it easier for the white house to paint the opposing party as unhinged. kevin mccarthy announced the assignments white house staffers sent staffs with -- don't do this -- digital high fives. >> never ends well. >> a political gift and another said this collect i group has the credibility of a my pillow commercial. it might be true, jonathan lemire and with us is michael steele and elise jordan -- a msnbc political analyst. jonathan lemire, no glee. you can't have glee as a democrat. i never heard such a thing. >> perhaps unusual.

maybe they change the tone after this. this is how it's received as a political gift for a white house with a rocky stretch with the classified document material matter. they think they got good news. we should note no white house likes to be the subject of investigations. some house democrats, my colleagues and i spoke to, definitely urged tapping the brakes on the optimism saying this is a painful process but from the white house they thought this all along. if the republicans take the house and they did narrowly kevin mccarthy will have a hard time keeping it under control. we have seen that. secondly an elevation of the fringe characters. and those are the people that the white house is warning as real threats to the democracy. they think that's true and will make the threats but think that the lawmakers are not able to

resist overstepping. they will play to the extreme elements of the right and they will make a mess of the hearings and the white house can present a stark contrast. we are the adults in the room. we're being responsible to do the work of the people. you people are grandstanding and think think political benefits from that a next guest is jesse eisenberg to talk about the new movie. that conversation is straight ahead on "morning joe." struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults.

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as we look ahead to 2024, looking at the polling between donald trump and ron desantis, if he decides to run, other

candidates are starting to step forward. former president trump's early announcement that he's running for president again doesn't seem to have had the effect of freezing out the rest of the potential field. former u.n. ambassador and south carolina governor nikki haley had this to say when asked about her 2024 plans. >> when you're looking at the run for president, you look at two things. you first look at does the current situation push for new leadership. the second question is am i that person that could be that new leader? yes, we need to go in a new direction. and can i be that leader? yes i think i can be that leader. >> talking to bret baier on fox there. it's early in the process, elise, mike pence and others they believe that perhaps donald trump is vulnerable, these of course have been people who have fallen in line with him over the last five, six years. do you think a field is going to step out and challenge donald trump? >> from all indications, it

looks like yes. mike pompeo's book, he's taking some shots at president trump over china from the right even saying he wasn't tough enough on china at the beginning of covid. so you have him in the race. you have nikki haley looking like she's going to run. you've got mike pence and then ron desantis, republican fund-raiser told me this week the day he announces the money that is going to come in to ron desantis from the rich donor class of the republican party, just going to be tremendous. so that at least at a minimum a field of five and that splits the vote just enough that probably gives donald trump the edge in a primary fight. >> so, rev, a lot of people talk about mistakes donald trump's made, how donald trump's best days are behind him, he's picking fights with pro-life communities and with evangelicals.

and everybody is saying ron desantis, ron desantis, ron desantis. as we were talking about last night on the show, desantis may not be able to handle -- you talk about -- can you handle the big stage? talk about boxing because this is usually one-on-one. we saw what trump did to marco rubio, to rand paul, to jeb bush. we saw one-on-one, he just completely destroyed every one of them, right? lindsey graham. every one of them. and it's kind of like, you know, ali in 1977, ali was slowing down, great box toers like jimmy young that would push him to the edge, but he was still the champ and still figured out how to win fights. forgive me. i'm not comparing donald trump in any way to muhammad ali, so please save that for somebody else who's going to actually read that. but i am saying he's still the

champ in the gop. he's still the most popular member of the party. he's still the guy that can dominate the stage like nobody else there. and, i don't know, i think we, the media, keep making the mistake of keeping, oh, he can't win the republican nomination this year, can he? >> no, i agree, we should never underestimate someone like trump, particularly when we've seen what he's done. as you and i were talking, muhammad ali, who i got to know pretty well toward the end of his career, he knew how to do just enough to win rounds when he couldn't necessarily knock somebody out. and he used theatrics. there's no one better in the republican political realm that understands theatrics better than donald trump. that should not be underestimated. another ali story, i was at his training camp once in deer lake,

and i went into -- he had different cabins for different purposes, and they had one cabin where people would train. i went into the training cabin, and this guy looked terrific. he was sparring and was making all the right moves. ali came in slowly and we're standing behind him. when i noticed he was behind me, i said, champ, this guy's got it. he said, sharpton, he can throw a great punch. let's see if he can take a punch. a minute later the guy was flat on his back. that's what i'm saying about desantis. >> exactly. >> we see desantis throw a lot of punches in florida. when he gets on that big stage, particularly against donald trump, let's see if he can take a real punch. coming up, the mayor of cincinnati is meeting today with president biden and he will be our guest as city leaders from across the country gather at the white house to talk infrastructure, gun safety, and much more. a preview when we come back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's the fourth hour, everybody, 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. elise jordan and jonathan lemire are back with us for the hour. and we have got a lot to get to

this hour, willie geist. >> we'll start in new mexico where prosecutors announced yesterday alec baldwin will be charged in criminal court for the on-site shooting death of cinematographer halyna hutchins in 2021. the district attorney says formal charges of involuntary manslaughter will be filed against the actor and the film's armorer in the coming days. miguel almaguer has the latest from new mexico. >> reporter: from actor, producer, to high-profile defendant, this morning alec baldwin facing involuntary manslaughter along with a firearms charge for his role in the death of cinematographer halyna hutchins. >> he's facinging charges because of both, as the actor that pulled the trigger. that's obviously a compelling fact. but he's also facing charges as a producer because he should have known that the conditions on that set were unsafe. >> reporter: confident they can convict, prosecutors say they never believed baldwin's

statement he didn't pull the trigger. >> i let go of the hammer of the gun and the gun goes off. i didn't pull the trigger. >> reporter: baldwin said he never pulled the trigger. do you believe that? >> that's not true, and we know that from the fbi lab report. that gun would not have fired without the trigger having been pulled. we have videos of him where his hand was on the trigger. >> reporter: prosecutors also argue that baldwin had a duty to properly check the gun before using it, but baldwin's attorney, who called the decision a terrible miscarriage of justice, said that baldwin relied on the professionals with whom he worked, who assured him the gun did not have live rounds. the lawyer for matthew hutchins, the victim's widower, supporting the decision to charge, writing, "no one is above the law." last year hutchins with hoda. >> you think the majority of the blame lays on alec baldwin? >> the idea that the person holding the gun causing it to discharge is not responsible is

absurd to me. >> reporter: do you think someone should go to prison over all of the evidence you've reviewed? >> prison is not necessarily the goal. what i want is justice for halyna hutchins. >> reporter: after sorting through body camera footage, police interview, and forensic testing of the gun, the d.a. is also charging russ armorer, hanna gutierrez brie with involuntary manslaughter. it was her job to ensure gun safety and to check all the bullets on set were harmless dummy rounds. >> so there's live rounds all over the set, an accident was going to happen, and she should have or somebody should have noticed that at some point. >> but gutierrez's attorneys call the charges the result of a very flawed investigation. meantime, a third crew member, assistant director dave halls, cut a deal with the prosecution, pleading no contest to negligent use of a deadly weapon. his attorney arguing, halls wasn't directly responsible for

what happened. >> they did not hand the gun to alec baldwin. >> reporter: this morning, 15 months after a deadly and tragic accident, the district attorney says three people who should have prevented the shooting will now all face justice. >> miguel almaguer reporting from new mexico. so, joe, obviously this surprised a lot of legal analysts that alec baldwin would be directly charged with involuntary manslaughter. the actor's union has come out and said these prosecutors are uninformed about the process. they said this was the wrong decision, that it's not the actor's responsibility to assure there is a dummy round in the gun. there will be a lot to play out in the trial here. >> willie, you talked earlier about how from everything you heard and read, this is just not the standard in hollywood that you hand an actor a gun and then the actor is the one, after

being guaranteed by the chain of command that there's not a live round in there, they get the gun, it's then -- like what's the actor supposed to do? this is a bit baffling. i'm certainly not coming to defense of alec baldwin, but i heard the prosecutor say he's the one that's holding the gun. yeah. he's an actor. how many people held guns in "the godfather" in "l.a. confidential," in shows we see every day? i guess this is the new standard? i just think they may have a hard time proving that case when one expert after another comes from hollywood and says actors are never responsible for this. it's the chain of command. so when they get the gun, they can go. >> a lot of the people that i heard from and the people you heard from publicly, they don't even know alec baldwin, haven't

worked for him. they say they're not here to defend alec baldwin specifically, but on a set, the armorer is a professional who has a specific and important job, and that is to make sure that the prop firearms certainly don't have live ammunition in them, but there shouldn't even be live ammunition on the set, but it's safe for the actor, you're good to go. maybe the producer role of alec baldwin here is what the prosecutors really are pursuing. we'll have to see. >> that would make more sense than alec baldwin, the actor. state attorney from palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg. you've heard our discussion. you're an active prosecutor right now. i'm curious again, talking about the chain of custody here, would you have brought this case against alec baldwin?

>> good morning, joe. it's a tough within. i probably would not have. but, look, a prosecutor just has to have probable cause and then they can move forward, and there was probable cause here. but really, you have to get a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. and i think it's going to be very tough to get a unanimous 12-person jury to convict alec baldwin on these charges. the key to all this, joe, is to look at the jury instructions in new mexico, because a lot of confusion on what involuntary manslaughter means. when you look at the jury instructions, it says the jury will be asked two questions, one, should alec baldwin should have known of the danger of his actions, and, number two, did he act with a willful disregard for the safety of otherst. one, he's going to say the gun was cold, it was safe, and he relied on his assistant director and armorer, their responsibility. so he should not have known that the actions were dangerous. two, he wasn't horsing around on the set. he was practpracticing, rehears

so did not act with a willful disregard for the safety of others. unfortunately for baldwin, he made some damning statements. he went public and said i didn't pull the trigger. you've got to believe that the prosecutors thought he was lying because an fbi forensic report said that someone had to pull the trigger. if he does that on the stand at this trial, jurors are going to punish him. he needs to be very careful in what he says. >> we've been talking this morning about how he made a terrible mistake by going around talking nonstop, contradicting himself. but, again, just talking about the jury instructions, if you measure him against every other actor to -- again, we look at tv, see the guns on tv, see the guns in the movies, you know, going back to westerns, again, you hand an actor a gun, you know, they're not going to stop

the set production right there and say let me now do a ballistics test on this and let me -- it's just not how it's done, how it's ever been done. i'm with you, maybe they find probable cause, but getting 12 jurors to say yes, an actor must stop every time snl i don't see how they get 12 people to reach the high standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. >> yeah, joe. you remember in 1983 on the movie set "the crow," brandon lee was tragically killed in a similar situation. the district attorney back then investigated for five months, found negligence, but ultimately decided not to bring any criminal charges because it's really hard to prove beyond any reasonable doubt someone was criminally liable. maybe civil lawsuits, yes. but to think because he was a

producer, supervisor, had oversight over everyone, i think that's a stretch. is he responsible for every one's negligence? the argument will have to be it was reckless to point the gun and shoot it. you should have made sure there were not live rounds in there even though the assistant director said "cold gun." then you have his own words that can make him look like a liar. i agree, i think this is an uphill battle. i'd be surprised if the jury finds him guilty. this will either result in a hung jury, acquittal, or maybe he takes the same plea that the assistant director took, which is a misdemeanor, slap on the wrist, and no jail time. >> yeah. dave, i'm curious because i understand what you all are saying and most experts in the legal field think this was strange, these charges are overcharging, so to speak, is the word i've heard.

but i also see it as it's not just handing a random actor a gun. it's handing one of the executive producers of the movie a gun. it's handing a human being a gun. and when you're holding a gun, you are not supposed to point it at another person. that is not just sort of a thought or immoral. that's gun safety. so i don't understand why for many in the legal field, they find this to be completely out of the realm of possibilities that alec baldwin is facing a charge here of responsibility. >> mika, it's a fair point, and that's why the prosecutor has a good-faith basis to move forward. it's not a crazy charge. it's an aggressive charge. it probably is more suitable for the armorer, though. it's her responsibility to make sure the gun is safe and the ammunition. apparently she was over her head, as well as the assistant director, who could have been charged with the same crime,

because he yelled out "cold." he was not supposed to handle the gun. not saying baldwin should be eliminated from entire culpability, he should be held accountable but it's probably better for him to be accountable in civil court rather than being in an orange jump suit. >> who knows, maybe they're setting it up to get a plea deal from him so it doesn't look like they're letting the big hollywood actor go while they've already got plea deals from somebody else. state attorney from palm beach county, dave aronberg, thank you so much. >> thank you, dave. >> mika. tim kaine of virginia is expected to announce this morning whether he'll run for re-election next year. that's according to sources familiar with his plans who say democrats are privately urging him to run for a third term. if he were to step down, it would create virginia's first open senate seat in more than a

decade. the 2024 senate match is going to be a tough one for democrats. the party has a slim majority right now and will have to defend twice as many seats as republicans. the gop is expected to target arizona, where former democrat, now independent senator kyrsten sinema is up for re-election. then there's jon tester's seat. he's the only democrat to hold statewide office in montana. but he hasn't said yet whether he will run again. in last year's midterms, we saw republicans snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. now leaders have signaled they're willing to take a more aggressive approach to box out candidates that are inelectable, even if it puts them in conflict with former president donald trump. and there is that name, donald trump again. they just don't seem to care as

much, joe. >> yeah, exactly. you know, it's only important to keep donald trump boxed out from picking senate candidates, i mean, only if republicans want to win. >> exactly. >> maybe they just love losing. and if so, they ought to keep listening to him. they've gotten so used to losing that maybe they would prefer to lose and take responsibility. let's bring in nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. vaughn, donald trump lost the senate for republicans in 2020. he went out of his way going to georgia to lose the race, telling republicans in 2020 in special elections, you know what, you know what, you can't trust the voting, you can't trust voting in georgia, so just don't vote. they listened to him. and mitch mcconnell lost the majority leader position. same thing happened in 2022. the question is how do they box donald trump out? and how do they box out the

crazy candidates in 2024? because my goodness, this senate map is lined up. republicans should knock this one out of the park. >> right. i think the issue, though, looking at open republican primary, you saw this in 2022 and we should expect to see this in the coming months, when donald trump guarantees a republican nominee in a primary, he can send out emails, fund raise, he can guarantee fame, recognition, he can guarantee he's going to bring you onto a stage at a future trump rally. in a republican primary, each of those things mean a lot. so what you get out of that is much like donald trump, you get players who are more likely to jack up three-pointers, and steph curry is not running for the gop nomination for any of these senate races. but that is where herschel walker to mehmet oz, you wound

up with candidates with celebrity, fame, and ultimately they got election losses out of it. that is where democrats here, when you're looking at the messengers they still have in play, debbie stabenow is out of the picture, retiring. but jon tester won his race, 3 1/2 percentage points. joe manchin will be back in the game. you have bob casey to jacky rosen in nevada. this is where the democrats feel comfortable that they have the message, especially after the two years of victories, to go toe to toe, especially with donald trump having every intention of being the major factor this go-around. >> in the immediate aftermath of botched midterm elections for republicans, team mcconnell was out there casting blame on donald trump and saying, oh, these weren't our candidates. but they went along with it. mcconnell ultimately backed trump's candidates in the primaries. or after the primaries. >> right.

>> have you heard any talk about republicans or the leadership is actually going to put more effort into having decent candidates and not candidates that are going to lose again? >> right. mitch mcconnell wanted to take the senate majority, so essentially he had no choice but to go and back these republican candidates who his voters went to the polls and voted for. let's look at next week. i'll be flying to california for the rnc winter meeting. this is where the next toe-to-toe matchup is to going to go for republicans. it will be mcdaniel versus dillon for the rnc chairmanship. who is dillon? she's to the right of ron mcdaniel. she on election day was with the likes of kari lake. this is what we're talk about the republican party looking at as their alternative. next saturday in columbia, south carolina, donald trump is holding his first campaign event of 2024 outside of florida in south carolina at the statehouse with who? the governor, henry mcmaster. with who?

senator lindsey graham. nikki haley went out and all but said she's running for the 2024 nomination, but yet the governor of her own state and the senator from her own state are going to be there next week with donald trump. if you're talking about indications, the republican party looks like it will do exactly what it did in 2022. >> wow. >> that's certainly the tension the republicans have here, what kind of candidates they lead with. on the democratic side, i would's a challenging map that rolled through right there, you know, they feel good about michigan, each within senator stabenow announcing she won't seek re-election. they feel good they have a nice deep bench there. same in california, a safe blue state, but with senator dianne feinstein expected to announce her retirement, not saying yet, but there's a number of lawmakers jockeying for her seat. katie porter, the congresswoman, already announced hers. but willie, virginia will be interesting. this will be one if tim kaine decides not to run again, and this would be a marquee state,

an expensive state, and it would be one where republicans feel like they have a shot. youngkin is the governor. >> we'll see what the senator has to say shortly, but there are a bunch of seats in montana, ohio, brown knows how to get it done in ohio, west virginia where joe manchin is, a lot of these will be seen as vulnerable, but what kind of candidate, to everyone's point, will republicans put up to perhaps take those seats. they will see. today 250 of the country's mayors are set to meet with the president at the white house to cap off a week-long conference focused on strengthening

leadership between leaders. he celebrates two years in office and looks to tout his administration's accomplishments, including the passage of the bipartisan infrastructure bill. joining us now, democratic mayor from cincinnati. it's great to have you with us. you have some important business in front of you. let's talk about real stuff, bengals/bills sunday, 3:00, up in buffalo. how are you feeling? >> first off, thanks for having me back. i really appreciate it. look, what happened two weeks ago to damar hamlin and the buffalo bills family was a tragedy, but i'm so happy that our prayers have been answered, he's doing much better, he's out of the hospital, recuperrecuper. but if i could just say a word about cincinnati's response. we have the best residency program in the country and you saw why that night, saving his life. the city praying for him, showing up at the hospital, giving to his foundation. it was really inspiring.

i'm so lucky to be able to lead a city like that. but, look, on sunday we're no longer bills fans. we are in it to win it. we're back. we're going to make another run to the super bowl. the bills, you know, they break those folding tables, we break passing records. that's how we roll. i'm really excited about the game and looking forward to who dey. i'm rocking my who dey pin today. >> taking joey b. over josh allen. i'm glad you said that about cincinnati. thank god hamlin is okay. what was so moving is the support of the people of cincinnati bringing food to the hospital, school children across the city writing letters to damar hamlin. it was really beautiful to watch. your city really shined in that moment. let's talk about why you are in washington right now, mr. mayor. part of it is is infrastructure package. you're meeting with president biden. what are you going to hear from the president? and what do you want to tell him? >> well, what the majors, all

270 of us, have in common is that the infrastructure bill, arp, chips act, ira, they've been transformative for our studies. on the infrastructure bill, there's a very important bridge that connects kentucky to ohio, the brent spence bridge. for 30 years it has been falling apart. it accounts for 3% of our gdp and it is structurally unsound. president after president, republican after democrat have stood in front of that bridge, done a press conference, and said i'm going to get it done. and president after president failed until joe biden. cincinnati is the largest federal grant in our country's history, $1.6 billion, to redo that bridge, and we did it by partnering in a bipartisan way, putting all the partisan crap aside and just getting stuff done for our citizens. and what is most impactful is on the day that president biden was in cincinnati to announce that, the $1.6 billion, mcconnell was

there, brown was there talking about the importance of bipartisan. split screen in real time, i think kevin mccarthy was on his 29th ballot here in d.c. so it was a stark choice between what the country wants, either leaders who are getting stuff done or a party that is in chaos and beholden to its most extreme members. i think the choice is pretty clear. >> mr. mayor, let's talk about some of the other issues challenging big cities across america right now, still bouncing back from covid, some cities of course dealing with empty offices, trying to get workers to come back into their urban quarters. but let's also talk about crime and gun violence. tell us about what your city is going through and what sort of federal help you need and may ask for today. >> well, the white house has been very clear that public safety is one of their top priorities. i've been in office for a year, and i've been very clear that public safety is my first, second, and third priority.

we have real parter ins with the president biden administration. arp saved cincinnati. the american rescue plan gave us the resources necessary to provide the basic services that people rely on. if not for arp, cincinnati would have failed, and that's specifically true for plaflt. a year into my administration, homicides are down by 18%, and it's because we had the funding necessary to pay our public safety professionals. there's a lot of talk in d.c. about defunding the police. in reality, it's president biden through arp and democratic mayors across the country who are funding and supporting the police. but we haven't stopped there. we have also innovated. cincinnati is one of the few cities in the country that for some 911 calls, like addiction and homelessness, we don't send police officers. we send mental health officers who are unarmed to connect them to the resources they need and saving very important resources on the public safety side. on the heels of the most

important gun legislation in 30 years passed by president biden, we are taking a page out of that book. in the next couple of weeks, cincinnati will be announcing two very important sensible gun reforms to try and continue to tamp down on violence. but we would not have been able to do that without president biden's leadership on arp. >> thanks so much for joining us again, sir. good luck on sunday. >> thanks, guys. who dey, baby. >> all right. coming up on "morning joe," a bad day in court for donald trump and his lawyers. we'll tell you why a judge fined them nearly a million dollars. and google announces massive layoffs this morning, cutting about 12,000 jobs, more than 6% of its global workforce, becoming the latest tech giant to scale back its workforce. we'll have the details on that ahead. and the nasdaq is up.

we have the opening bell thanks to some surprising news from netflix. we'll explain what's happening with the streaming giant. before we go to break, willie, what do you have planned for "sunday today?" it's friday. tell us. >> we have another busy sunday coming up on "sunday today" on nbc. of course all the latest news. we'll dig into this alec pauld win story a little deeper. and my sunday sitdown with common, a grammy, oscar, and emmy-winning artist and actor, now perhaps chasing a tony. he's in the pulitzer-prize-winning play on broadway getting rave reviews, and his performance is as well. one of the smartest, most thoughtful and talented people. i get a chance to sit down with common on sunday on nbc. ♪limu emu & doug♪ hey, man. nice pace! clearly, you're a safe driver. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance...

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half past the hour. google's parent company alphabet

is cutting more than 6% of its workforce, becoming the latest technology company to make significant cuts after a hiring spree during the pandemic and amid concerns about a broader economic slowdown. the layoffs are the largest in the company's history. u.s.-based employees will receive 16 weeks of severance pay plus two weeks for each additional year they have worked at the company. microsoft and amazon also recently announced plays to lay off employees. "the new york times" reports more than 190,000 jobs have been cut by technology firms since the start of 2022. former president donald trump and his lawyers must pay nearly $1 million in sanctions far lawsuit filed against hillary clinton and others. the suit claimed the 2016 presidential election was rigged. in the order, a u.s. district judge wrote the case was made for political purposes and,

quote, no reasonable lawyer would have filed it. and netflix added more than 7 million more subscribers in the fourth quarter, well surpassing wall street expectations. this is the first time the streaming giant's new ad-supported service has been included in its earning results. now the company is predicting its revenue will rise 4% in the first quarter of 2023. the report comes as the co-ceo reed hastings says he is stepping down. he will stay on as the company's chairman. >> that was quite some news. that was really quite some news. >> yeah. >> by the way, speaking of news, willie, jack is so excited about "sunday today" and common. he came bounding in and saying, papa, papa, common. uncle willie has common. he's so excited. i don't know that i've seen

little jack that excited in quite some time. >> you know, he may be a 6'4" strapping teenaged boy, but he still has that child like innocence within him when the subject of "sunday today" comes in. papa, papa. >> yeah. all right. >> "sunday today" makes us all younger. >> i'm still waiting for my mug, willie. >> you don't have a mug? >> no. we don't have jack. >> oh, my gosh. i'll send you a box of them. how about that? >> i'd love that. >> that's my sunday morning. coming up -- >> that would be great. jack will be thrilled like, you know, between cocoa out of the mug. it's going to be so exciting. >> i think they're beautiful. will extra points cost the cowboys in the playoffs this weekend? we'll preview the nfl's divisional round next on "morning joe."

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beautiful live picture of philadelphia just one day before the people of that great city will have their hearts broken by america's team, the new york giants. the nfl playoffs continue tomorrow as teams vie for a shot at the conference championships. nbc news correspondent emily has a preview of the high-stakes showdowns and on the recovery of bills safety damar hamlin. >> reporter: this morning, damar hamlin is on the road to what will be a lengthy recovery. he still requires oxygen, is having his heart monitored regularly, and gets winded easily. less than three weeks after he suffered a cardiac arrest on the field, he's been released from the hospital and has been visiting his teammates at the bills facility. >> just seeing him interacting with the guys, i mean, it's amazing. that's our brother. >> guys love having him back in the building. >> reporter: his upbeat and

positive attitude getting the team ready for sunday's big game against the cincinnati bengals in their first face-off since hamlin's medical emergency. >> he's healthy. that's all that matters. we just want to finish what we started. >> reporter: from buffalo to the bay area, it's the weekend nfl fans have been waiting for, the final eight teams battling for playoff glory led by a star-studded football fountain of youth. >> i think you build up for this all season long. >> reporter: every starting quarterback suiting up still in their 20s. >> we'll leave its on the field and see the result. >> reporter: after dominating tom brady, the dallas cowboys adding extra insurance, signing another kicker to their practice squad. >> misses again! >> reporter: starter bret meagher missed a jaw-dropping four extra points in one game. >> oh, my gosh. you've got to be kidding me. >> reporter: dallas will need to be at their best to beat the 49ers. >> touchdown! >> it's about detail and executing and playing at a high level. >> reporter: in the city of brotherly love, two fierce nfc

rivals squaring off. jalen hurts and the philadelphia eagles hosting daniel jones and the new york giants. even the city's iconic rocky statue sporting hurts' jersey. mahomes and the kansas city chiefs face the surging jacksonville jaguars, hot off their historic 27-point comeback, celebrating in style. >> for the touchdown! >> we took that night and enjoyed it but we have to move on quick. >> reporter: eight elite teams pull in on their super bowl dreams. >> if you're playing the chiefs and patrick mahomes, you have to move on really quick. i am so glad she got that peyton manning moment when he jumped out of his chair after yet another missed field goal. it was a hilarious moment, but what peyton doing everybody was doing. nobody's seen anything like that. four missed extra points. >> couldn't believe it. couldn't believe it. there's some audio released yesterday or the day before of dak prescott on the sideline of

that game shouting, go for two! go for two! but they kept going to the kicker. they got away with it last week. we'll see if it haunts them this week. best-selling author, mike lupica, his latest book "the house of wolves," co-authored with james patterson, debuted at number two on the "new york times" bestsellers list. look at you, mike lupica. get it up to one this week. it's all lupica all the time. good morning, my friend. let's talk some football. which games are you looking at this week? i'm an unapologetic giants fan. they've been a lot of fun to watch down the season. saquon running the ball, the defense looks good. how do you like their chances? and philly with a banged-up jalen hurts. >> i grew up in upstate new york as a giants fan. i have completely talked myself into believing they're going to win this game. >> me too. >> there's an amazing stat about

the giants. three times in this century they have made the super bowl. those are the only playoff games they have won in this century. so usually when they win one, even though they lost a super bowl, they keep winning. and what i've soon from them the last few weeks, daniel jones is way better than i thought he was, and the "x" factor here is jalen hurts' right shoulder, because we don't know how well he is going to be on saturday night. but both jones and hurts rushed for 700 yards this season. daniel jones kept coming on and coming on and coming on, and there is something in the giants' football dna, eli manning, the quarterback before jones, won seven postseason games as an underdog. so, willie, i have completely talked myself into this. >> so let's talk about a game that could be a classic matchup,

i don't think it's going to be, but i underestimated the dallas cowboys going into the game with the bucs last week. but we have san francisco, dallas, of course, one of the great games, one of the great endings in nfl playoff history, the catch, montana to clark 1982. are we going to see another classic here, or do we expect the niners to roll over the cowboys? >> joe, you're talking to someone who was standing about 30 yards away from dwight clark when he made that catch. >> of course you were. of course you were. carly simons was singing about you, you're all so vain. you're always where you're supposed to be. >> ha! when that ball left joe montana's hand that day, i thought he'd thrown it into the stands, and the late dwight clark just kept going up and up. this is one of the great rivalries in the history of the sport. i saw so many great cowboys/49ers playoff games, and

the 49ers right now are working on the kind of story that the patriots had a million years ago when tom brady was essentially a rookie. brock purdy is one of the great stories we have had. >> great story. >> i refuse to call him mr. irrelevant. i think we have to put that to rest. six-game winning streak for this kid, third straight at the start of the year. this to me in so many ways, even when my giants play on saturday night, this is the game of the weekend. >> mike, another classic on the docket, too, and that is going to be cincinnati/buffalo, it looks like, the rematch of the damar hamlin game. a lot of emotion, these two teams forever linked by what happened that night. this game in buffalo rather than in cincinnati. bengals coming in a little banged up on their offensive line, but joe burrow has done this before, he's been so steady in the playoffs. josh allen supremely talented but kind of up and down. he's been making some pretty significant mistakes as well.

what's your pick for this one? >> you know, i think as an old upstate new yorker, i'm starting to think there's some magic with the bills because of what happened. but jonathan, you're right, and by the way, i have a way too early t-shirt, i don't have a "sunday today" mug, but that's another thing for another day. >> exactly. >> listen, for these two teams to be playing in the playoffs this quickly to what happened to damar hamlin that night is quite extraordinary. they stopped the game that night. in a way, they resume it, only in buffalo on sunday. this is like the magic of the postseason, that these two teams will go at each other again. and josh allen, joe burrow, we are so lucky as football fans. this is an extraordinary time. just look at the field of young quarterbacks who are still playing this weekend.

>> jack and i cheer for josh allen every week. we love him and the bills. of course my falcons are never going to get close to the playoffs. but we do. i want to ask you, the bills should beat cincinnati this weekend except for one thing. josh allen has been really inconsistent. this guy, what did he do, throw, like, one interception, 19 tds? incredible ratio in the playoffs. but he's looking like brett favre in the final two minutes of every game, just throwing up crazy passes, reckless interceptions left and right. do you have any theories about, like, what's up with josh allen this year? >> i don't, joe, but i'll tell you what, they should never have been in a close game with the dolphins last weekend. >> i know. >> a third-string quarterback and they have the turnovers.

i have no explanation, but the brett favre reference is so good. he is a gunslinger. he does have unbelievable confidence, not just in his arm, but, joe, he's, like, averse to sliding when he sees the open field. he's built like a tight end and runs like one. >> yeah. >> i have no pick in this game. i just can't wait to watch it. >> you know, there are few things more fun than washing josh allen running down the field. he sees the sidelines. and a lot like jalen hurts at alabama, no, i think i'm going to run over the linebacker, and he does. but you're right, i mean, i would be a lot more confident with the bills, but for the fact that, you know, they almost lost to a dolphins team that almost lost to a jets team the week before in the worst nfl game i've seen in years. mike lupica, number two, thank you so much for being with us.

again, mike's new bestseller with james patterson is titled "house of wolves." buy it now. coming up, jesse eisenberg is stand big in the studio. he's got an oscar nod for his portrayal of mark zuckerberg, but now he's stepping to the other side of the camera to direct the film. sounds very exciting. t.j., why don't you get on set and i'll be the director? he joins, next on "morning joe."

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hello? >> what are you doing? >> installing a beacon so people know when i'm live streaming. >> i mean you. >> i figured that. >> so when this light is on, you don't knock or come in or make any noise. >> and when it's off?

i'm free to go about my business to enjoy the rich pageantry of life? >> yeah, sure. >> it's a good system. >> that's a scene from the new movie when you finish saving the world starring julianne moore. and the coming of age film focuses on the relationship between a mother and son who may seem at odds, but who are more alike than either would care to admit. and joining us now is the film's writer and director academy award nominated actor jesse eisenberg "when you finish saving the world" is his directiontorial debut. this was a podcast. >> it started out as a book i wrote for audible. so i wrote a six-hour story from three characters and then paired it down for this movie. the podcast that the movie comes from the audible book is taken

place in the year 2032 so i had to move it back to the present. >> it is. and you did this during covid as well. >> we shot at the worst possible time to shoot a movie. it was just incredibly taxing and incredibly grateful that people took that risk to do the film. >> absolutely. so tell us about your character and julianne. >> she is unbelievable. so she plays -- i have made that same mistake. if i was 18 years younger and as attractive as finn, i would have played the part. she runs a domestic violence shelter and has devoted her life to helping others and her son plays music on tiktok. they just have a complete clash of culture, generations, values

and yet as the movie unfolds, you realize they are really this similar. they just are cut from different ethical cloths. >> how did filming this during the pandemic impact you as a director? >> when i think back on my experience and compare my first directing experience to other first time directors, i realize how significant it was a part in it. when you hear people talk about their first films, the challenges they discuss are so different. they are learning the process and the system and mine was about having to stay 20 feet away and not be be able to talk to my producers because they had to be this a separate room and shutting down because there was a covid scare onset and trying to figure out if it was near the actors would be affected the following day. it just turned into everybody in media you hear the same stories of trying to on the fly

reimagine the system that you have had in place for decades. >> for us, we had to move the show out of 30 rock, which was a real shock for us. wait, we have been doing that for years. i'm curious, what was the biggest surprise for you? moving from being an actor to being a director with and now that we're all old, mika and i, everybody else that's old. >> he's talking to me, joe. >> thank you so much. as a parent, you look at your parents and go, oh my god, i was such a jerk to them. they were so right. i should have listened. i'm curious as a first-time director, was there ever a moment where you were like, oh my god, that's what the director in that film was trying to tell me to do. what did you learn about yourself as an actor?

and how did that help you as a director this first time? >> that's a very astute observation as to my seerns, which was exactly that i was realizing that's why the director was not talking to me that day and it didn't have to do with me doing a bad job, but they were doing a million other things. just as a nervous earn. you walk around every set thinking everybody is worried about me doing a terrible job. and as ufs doing my first movie, no, i'm thinking about a thousand other things and the actor's job is something that normally you just feel they are amazing. thank goodness they are here. >> how do you command respect over julianne moore? >> she might have been a little skeptical because it was my first time, but i just so respect her and admire her. maybe just allowing her to excel in the role. and also having written it, she knows i did half the work that a director should be doing, which is thinking about the

characters. >> what a great point. so often we read about actors and can they are so intimidated by directors. then you hear from the directors who are not thinking for one second about whether the actor has done a great job. they are like, fantastic. i'm getting to work with them. how wonderful that you got to see that. as a director, it tells you how you bend over backwards to say that was an incredible scene. >> 100%. i have been acting for 20 years onsets and i never had an appreciation for my job until i saw somebody else do it in front of me and see that to watch julianne moore is the greatest actress in the world to panic about a scene. it gave me an appreciation for my job that i was missing and could use more of. >> the film "when you finish saving the world" opens in theaters nationwide today it's so nice to meet you. >> what an honor to be on your

show. >> i just got a gift. is this from you? >> i told you. i promised. >> there's one there for joe too. let's get jesse one. everybody gets a mug. >> i'm drinking coffee out of my hands the last two weeks. thank you. >> thank you. this is what i'm going to use when i watch sunday "today." >> it holds a gallon of sweet tea. >> mika only lets me drink sweet tea out of paper cups now. jack is going to be so thrilled. it's going to be jack's birthday present in may. this is great news. >> thank you so much. jesse, don't think we're weird. >> i have a much higheren i'm so impressed. >> that does it for us this morning. >> before you go, could you compliment mika one hr time on

something and i'll take the compliment as my own. >> mika, i love that yellow mug. i'm so scared to say anything. i'm put in a weird position. >> jesse, you handled that weird position well. it's been an honor working with you. congratulations. it has to be so exciting. >> i think you look nice. that does it for us this morning. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage right now. >> that was really chaotic ending. thank you for your patience. good morning. 10:00 a.m. eastern. 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart reporting from washington. president biden says he has no regrets when it comes to the controversy surrounding the discovery of classified documents in his delaware home and former office. we'll discuss what this means for his potential 2024 al bigss. >> the