vest on the podcast. you can listen to the entire show anytime, anywhere, subscribe and listen for free, wherever you get your podcasts. stay right where you are, -- picks up our news coverage right now. right now. >> good morning and welcome i am yamiche on sunday are in washington, d.c. and right now the country stands on the edge of an economic cliff. on thursday the u.s. officially hit the debt ceiling which prompted the treasury department to take, quote, extraordinary measures, mean the government has bought itself sometime but if a solution is not reached by early june the u.s. could default on its payments for the first time ever. all eyes are now on president biden and house republicans to hammer out a deal. president biden is insisting on increasing the borrowing limit with no strings attached. well speaker of the house kevin mccarthy just a few days into his new role will have to

appease hard right members of his party who want major changes without the u.s. spends its money. this is how some of the same members he had to make deals with in order to win the speakership. joining us now is nbc nbc news correspondent allie raffa live from delaware where the president is spending the weekend. ali, the president is saying he is refusing to negotiate, republicans are saying they want to negotiate. where do things stand right now? >> yeah, unitia, well, a little bit of a hand yesterday with his remarks and president biden saying he is willing to sit down with speaker kevin mccarthy to talk about raising the debt ceiling to, quote, avoid a calamity that exceeds anything that has ever happened financially in the united states, president biden now saying exactly when and where that meeting will take place, just saying why he wants to have it, and then you have speaker mccarthy who we know has been under pressure from fellow house republicans. saying that they want him to

first talk about spending cuts that they want before even starting the negotiations, before raising that debt ceiling, but, speaker mccarthy responding to this invitation by president biden in a tweet yesterday. saying he would accept this request. and, that he wants to meet to quote discuss irresponsible debt ceiling increase. to address irresponsible government spending, the echoing a week now. the united states enters into this crisis every few years, it has never defaulted on instead, what is really helping this time when so far, at least right now is the fact that the united states is not actually scheduled to default into those debts if no action is taken until around june or july. so it gives us a little bit of wiggle room, here -- especially in counting tricks

to make sure that we need to be paid for right now is, in fact, paid for. republicans are saying they are willing to fight until that deadline to get what they want, while biden administration officials are hoping they bend under pressure eventually. >> quite a standoff, da president biden choosing to speak finally about direct questions and its handling of classified documents. what more do we know about what he said and why he said it? >> yes, remember there were days of shouted questions where president biden was ignoring those questions from thursday he was during the storm damage out in california, he had some quick remarks about these classified documents. essentially downplaying the backlash in the week of these documents, and stressing that his team did everything right and immediately notifying the doj and the national archives as soon as they were discovered. take a little bit of a listen to more of his reaction, here. >> we are fully cooperating,

looking forward to getting this result quickly, i think you are going to find there is nothing there. i have no regrets. >> the president addressing this but neither he nor the white house answering really this lengthy list of questions that only continues to grow the more days and weeks that pass, the more questions we have about this classified documents. >> thank you so much for your reporting on that chilly beach front. joining me now is a democratic strategist at msnbc political analyst, also with this is stewart's evens, senior adviser to the lincoln project and author of it was all a lie, how the republican party became donald trump, so, stewart, how far are house republicans willing to take this fight over the debt ceiling? >> well, i mean, let me ask you, would you loan your car to marjorie taylor greene? that is what we are talking about, here, she is the second

most important person in the house and she is a stark raving lunatic, i think this whole idea that there is going to be some return to civility, or some norms here is extraordinarily dangerous, these are dangerous people who really do not care about the united states government, they will not even admit that joe biden is a legally elected president, so how do you negotiate with somebody who's president does not own me believe in your president, i think this is very serious and ultimately i think it is going to help democrats because i think that most people want this to go down calmly and republicans are going to act in a very irrational way, but, there could be a lot of damage done along the way. >> stuart makes a great point about the fact that there is not even a shared truth about democrats and republicans trying to negotiate, i wonder if you think that these newly empowered hard right members of the gop, that they might seek to strip the speaker kevin

mccarthy of his role given the fact that he did give a number of concessions to them. >> all options are on the table, you militia, we know it only takes one republican to stand up and call for a motion to vacate, that is what is on the table and mccarthy knows that, so what i think is going to happen since mccarthy made all these backroom deals and concessions in his haze of desperation to become speaker of the house, now he is going to have to put forward every proposal he agreed to with these extremist members, and lay out all of that, and once that is roundly rejected, not only by democrats in the white house but also by senate republicans who are also watching this and their counterparts in the house like, y'all, get it together. once all of those proposals are rejected than i think there is going to be some concrete negotiations, this is gonna be a long slog until june because as stewart said these extremists do not care about the government, they do not care about governing either, this is a critical part of that process, but, i also want to remind folks that every single

year donald trump asked republicans to raise the debt limit they did. it will be really ridiculous for them to fracture global economies at historic levels in order to prove a point, now. >> juanita, you're making the point that june is a far way away, i want to take a listen to what president biden's economic advisers had to say. >> kevin mccarthy himself voted to raise the debt ceiling three times under trump, says no we are threatening default in order to get cuts and social security and medicare and other programs like that that americans have paid into, there is no negotiation there for president biden to have. >> so, there, when i know you have an economic adviser for president biden really echoing what you just said, i wonder do you think the white house will stick to this messaging given the fact that the american people, if this happens and we end up defaulting on our debt that maybe people will not understand what is going on and they might just blame the person in the white house. >> right, i think it is

critical of the white house holds their position but also emphasizes who loses from social security recipients, medicaid, beneficiaries go down the list, military pay on the line, go down the list and make it explicitly clear to the american public who is at stake because as janet yellen also said earlier this week, there is no prioritized at, there is no pay one bill, the fault is the fault and a whole lot of people lose if that happens, i think it is critical that democrats emphasize clearly for the american public how this will impact them directly. >> and, stuart, i also want to turn to you and ask about the classified documents in president biden's handling at it, they present finally decided to speak out, i wonder what you make of the potential political damage that you can do to him. >> look, i think it will be better off if this did not happen, but i think when these things do happen you look at the comparison of how they're handling it versus the other,

ultimately this kind of thing is not about documents, specifics of that, it is about who is this person and do you trust this person? is this person acting in the best interest of the united states are acting in their own personal best interest? that is really a test of character and it is a test between the character of joe biden and the character of donald trump, and i think we had that character test in 2020 election and i think we are probably going to have it again, because i think donald trump will be the republican nominee, and i think people trust joe biden more, to tell the truth, to try to do the right thing. then they do donald trump, who is a guy who never got favorable over 41 or 42%. >> certainly something that we will continue to cover, juanita and stuart you will be sticking around after the break, and, coming up, republicans may technically controlled the house of representatives but the department of justice is put in the gop on notice about what they can and cannot do on

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justice but the new gop -controlled house on notice. in a letter to house judiciary chairman jim jordan the doj made clear it stands ready to work with the committees and their investigations, but, it warned it was earned the right not to share information about ongoing cases, this comes after the ohio republican announced the gop led committee is looking to investigate the department of justice and demanded a trove of documents including communications between the doj, the fbi, and president biden's office. this is an early marker of how the doj plans to deal with house republicans who have promised to make investigating president biden their top priority, joining me now nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie tsirkin, julie, talk to us about the doj's stance, especially as it relates to

their long-standing practices. >> yes, well, initially are now entering washington's favorite past time, the practice of letter writing, in this letter the department of justice sent to the judiciary chairman they said, quote, any oversight requests must be weighed against the departments interest in protecting the integrity of its work, long-standing department policy prevents us from confirming or denying the existence of pending investigations in response to congressional request, and, look, jim jordan is already experiencing the realities of the limitations of just how much oversight his panel, the other oversight panels will be able to actually do in this new congress, which as you remember this is one of their key points, the key things that they are going to do with their new house republican majority in the house, and, what the department of justice is saying is that, look, we have ongoing investigations, namely and the handling of classified documents, the current president's handling of classified documents, and both

investigations are now happening with special counsels appointed to each of them, and they are live balls, something the department of justice just does not want to engage on with the judiciary committee, they are hoping they will be able to come to some sort of compromise to be able to handle this in a dignified manner. >> julie, if they are trying to get some sort of compromise was also dealing with the fact that jim jordan is bumping up against his limitations, what could possibly be jim jordan's next move, here? >> so far we have not heard much from the house stationary committee, they tweeted saying why is doj scared to cooperate with our investigations and jordan was also on fox after this letter was sent, take a listen to a portion of that interview. >> i think the american people already understand there is an even handed application of the law, this is the whole concern with the justice department, and i have has said many times we have now had over two dozen whistleblowers come talk to us about a number of issues with justice department the show a double standard. >> and, look, as you know there

is no doubt in my mind that jim jordan did not just expect the department of justice to say hey, here you go, here's everything you are looking for this early on into this new congress, they are also going to make sure that the investigations that these oversight committees in the house are handling are met in good faith with the department of justice and the biden administration, but there are a few things with the committee can pursue, with their newfound majority they also have subpoena power, that is an avenue jim jordan can certainly explore, and also they can take this to the courts but watching their democratic counterparts pursue this under the trump administration they know that everything gets tied up in courts for months and potentially years. >> important reporting, thank you so much truly. back with me, democratic strategist juanita tolliver and the senior visor for the lincoln project, juanita the doj seems to be drawing a line in the sand, what do you think will happen next as republicans still have power, though actually said they are also

bumping up against the limitations. >> right, i think the doj did more than draw a line in the sand, they essentially said to jim jordan i do not think you understand how this works, that is what it was giving and i think that is gonna be a reality check for jim jordan, but i fully expect republicans to continue escalating. through all avenues. subpoenas, everything julia just mentioned, i do not think they are going to get anywhere on it because the doj is definitely going to hold steadfast that policy of not jeopardizing their own investigations and they're active prosecutions in the name of helping republicans sabotage the biden administration. i think it is also important to call out the effectiveness of merrick garland in establishing the clear dividing line between his work at the doj, versus the white house, because that is something else you can expect republicans to try to attack in the coming weeks and months. i do not expect the doj to let up on this or to acquiesce to any of these asinine requests by republicans. >> and, stuart, third a lot of

talk about what republicans are doing but i wonder what you make of the democratic strategy, what could they potentially do as republicans are making it a top priority to investigate president biden? >> they are the focus of issues people care about which is what i think people are going to do, the absurdity of this, these republicans would not even participate in the process to try to get to the bottom of who tried to overthrow the government of the united states and kill their colleagues, so, now they are going to write this letter. this is like tony soprano right in the fbi and asking or any of my guys under investigation. of course they're not going to say look, we are going to tell you, this is all about donald trump. which is what the republican party is about, and, it has nothing to do with good government, it has nothing to do with oversight or governments. so, look, i think what the democrats, this is the easiest thing in the world just focus on issues people care about. this is why joe biden, his favorables are up 50% going up. it is actually working for democrats. it is a slow, steady process

and what merrick garland thinks is really important is that he is trying to restore faith in a process that is essential to civil society. and that is there is a separation between the justice department and the white house, the white house is not a private lawyer of the president of the united states, he has private lawyers, but we have to restore that faith. it is a lot easier to destroy faith than to restore, it it is a slow process and we should all be glad that merrick garland is about that business. >> stuart, the fact that you can sum up soprano reference the saturday morning is very impressive to me, i will say, juanita he is also talking about faith in government, i want to ask you what you make of some of the hard right members of the gop getting assignments on committees, and if you could remind people that what these folks like marjorie taylor greene and paul gosar wrote if you are in the first place. >> what kevin mccarthy did with this committee assignments he is emboldened and empower

people who we know to be insurrectionists, white nationalists, extremists, and violent. as you just said, green gosar are two examples of individuals who were removed from their committees for their statements of hate, for their violent videos and social media posts. all of that was done by democrats. democrats held them accountable, democrats called them out, democrats made sure that they face some type of punishment for the behavior. but here comes mccarthy after making all of those deals to become speaker, delivering and emphasizing who is in control of the republican conference of the house. it is these extremists. we should expect them to do their work on this committee, we have already seen some stuff from oversight but imagine what marjorie taylor greene is going to deal on homeland security, a committee that was designed to combat extremism and we are at a moment in history where domestic violence and political violence is spiking at historic rates. i think everyone should be alarmed by what we saw on these committee assignments and preparing and bracing ourselves for what is going to come next.

>> and, stuart, what do you think this committee assignments say about the state of the republican party, especially when some of the people who got committee assignments were the same people who put callum catheter rounds and rounds of voting to become speaker. >> yeah, i think one of the things we have to not lose sight of is that the difference between the so-called sane part of the republican party and the crazy people is pretty small. i mean, there is very few members of the republican party in congress who will assert that the president of the united states was legally elected. that does not seem like a particularly high bar, like who is the president and was he legally elected? what they are really saying is they do not believe we live in a democracy. because if you want to look at that would not live in a democracy, we have unoccupied government. that is actually how they look at this. i do not think than any of these people are likable people, paul gosar, marjorie taylor greene, how many people would

want to sit next to marjorie taylor greene on a long plane ride? so, look, i think it is a disaster politically for the republicans, i alternately do not think it is going to damage the country that much because they are not going to have that much power. the, it just shows, the republican party, i worked with that party for a long time when we used to at least try to pretend we were a party of ideas. marjorie taylor greene has never had an idea of her life. it is just incredibly sad. >> definitely a telling situation will keep covering, thank you so much. you will be back next hour so thank you for coming back. and coming up, more on the controversial freshman congressman george santos whose stories about his past life just don't seem to add up, we will break it all down, including his many tall tales when we come back. en we come back. may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee, even if it received ppp,

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about embattled new york public and congressman george santos, nbc news voters land journalist is that he is very confident, he interviewed santas in drag and it's done seven pride parade in brazil and this picture appears to show sandals and drag. to be clear, there is nothing wrong with performing and drag, santas definitively denied claims of ever performing in drag, calling them, quote, categorically false, despite being caught and multiple lies, calls for his resignations, and being the subject of several investigations, the freshman representative refuses to resign. and, speaker kevin mccarthy just books while henry neither george santos tonight so many of the things that have been brought it to be shown as lies. what is that he is pushing back so hard on this? >> i think it is hard to say.

what is difficult about the last week in particular is after much silence congressman santos has decided to push back on whether reporting, i cannot speak to why this particular story might have rankled him or his team but i do think it is notable a lot of our inquiries, mine and others have been met with silence and now they seem to be adopting a more challenging approach towards the media. >> and, in that vein i wonder, you also have some of the latest reporting that shows the security and exchange commission, that they might be looking more closely at santas, tell us more about that reporting. >> yes, the security and exchange commission was already looking at the company that congressman worked for, that company has been accused of being a ponzi scheme, santos has not been implicated in any court documents or filings, i want to be clear about that. but, an investor who donated -- i'm sorry, he'll invested $625,000 in this company and later donated to the santos

campaign filed a declaration saying one of the reasons that he was motivated to do so as because santos had said that he had raised $100 million to this company and i said this it is where we don't investing four billion. the sec might be looking into what the congressman's allotment and his company was. it was years ago, before he made his second run for office. i think it is interesting that it is one more area where you may be getting pressured by investigations. >> and, sticking to the subject of money cbs news, the interviewed a former roommate of george santos that says ultimately his goal to get into congress might have been all about and we'll take it, take a listen. >> they told me wants that i can get elected to congress for just one term i will be sat with a pension and health care for the rest of my life. >> so, michael, you've been digging so deep into what makes george take, how does what that remade is saying that this is

about money compare with your own reporting? >> what i will say is that sent us a satellite of things to a lot of friends. i think we have reported that he had a history of tall tales, a history of exaggerations, i think our boarding has shown enough falsehoods it is sort of hard to know what to take at face value in his past statements. but this is somebody who had clearly been striving for a better life, he had been striving for a while, it seemed like he found a way into it, if you look at his financial disclosures he is making $55,000 in 2020, by the time we get to 22 he is making $750,000 in salary, he is a company is valuing the millions, i think we have recorded that he has always been striving for a higher life in a higher piece of the puzzle, i cannot speak to that particular claim and how it may or may not be true but it is clear that the congressman, early on, years before he decided to enter politics was trying to get a piece of power and make more money, for sure. >> important reporting i,

wonder what does it mean for our country and the republican party that george santos is in congress and sitting on committees? >> you know, i will leave some of that analysis to pundits, i think what we are seeing now is a question of candidate vetting and how important people's backgrounds and their statements are. i think there is a lot of concern from a lot of people in desantis's district that he was not properly vetted, even republicans on a local publican party are now wondering who they sponsored, who they have been working with. they now said they are going to cut him out as much as he cat of constituent services and a local party business, i think there is a real question about how much someone's background influences their campaign and how much voters are motivated by that, or how much they are motivated by the issues, santos itself has said my background was not important because my stance on the issues was, i think there are a lot of questions about whether that is true in the modern republican party. >> there are definitely a lot of questions about george

santos, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> and breaking news this morning, a spokesperson for abbott laboratories tells nbc news that the company is under investigations for the justice department. nbc news has not yet confirmed the focus of the investigation, but this follows a report by the wall street journal that abbott is under criminal investigation related to the company's manufacturing a baby formula last year, added laboratory shut down a manufacturing plant in michigan after reports of infants getting sick from a rare bacteria. the plant shut down contributed to a nationwide baby formula search orange, and still to come on msnbc the shocking verdict in a police brutality case, we will talk to the lawyer of army lieutenant corona sorrow about getting real justice for his client. and later, tomorrow marks 50 years since the landmark roe v. wade decision shaped a generation of american women, we will look at how activists

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national outrage, this week a deep -- striking and pepper spraying u.s. army you lieutenant karana sorrow and december 2020.

the video where his arrest went viral. it showed the uniform veteran behind wheel of his suv at a gas station with his hands in the air outside driver side window as two police officers didn't exit for. they said he was fixing to ride the lightning of a taser if he did not comply with their orders, ultimately pepper spraying his eyes after taking him to the ground. he sued for $1 million but the and the jury boarded the officer just over $600,000 in damages and deal, raising profound questions about whether or not justice was served in this case. joining me now is the attorney for qurans reo, thank you for being here, how is his family and himself taking and reacting to this verdict? >> i think they are taking this fairly hard, this is what we call a legal was carriage of justice, it is not only the people involved but it hits the community as well very hard,

they are struggling to come to terms with what just occurred. >> of course they're struggling, in some ways it seems obvious they would be struggling, i wonder when you think about this verdict of 30 $600 when they were seeking 1 million after that video, how typical is this for this case to end this way? especially after an officer was fired near. >> so, it is rather a typical, in fact, after going to the verdict it is shocking and outrage was the term junius, i think that is appropriate. it is outrageous that this type of action caught on camera would lead a jury to award 30 $600 and the damages, especially considering the substantial psychological damages that we have proven my client had suffered. >> and, i don't think about the jury's decision and what do you think made the jury come to this conclusion, i think we should underscore again one of the officers was accused of excessive force, he was fired.

i wonder what was going to the jury's mind, what led to this given the fact that you are an attorney for him? >> so, i think they just failed to follow the jury instructions for one reason or another, they have a difficult job, we are dragging them in from all of the state, putting them in a federal court, taking them away from their family and friends and asked them to follow these instructions. just from looking at how they ruled wages don't think that they were able to follow the instructions, particularly given the fact that they did return the assault verdict against joseph gutierrez, that means that from that point forward, the point of the assault forward according to the jury instructions karana zaria was legally justified in remaining in that vehicle and refusing to get out, it also met necessarily under those instructions that any force that the defendants used to remove him from the vehicle after that point was battery. they failed to follow the jury instructions to the necessary and logical conclusion.

that is what really think happened. >> if that is the case what do you think is next, is there any legal recourse? >> the law does recognize the juries, even if they are trying their best to follow the law, make mistakes, it happens and the law has remedies for that and we have filed a motion with the federal courts, and the federal courts to take that verdict away and to give us a new trial. because of, among other things, the fact it looks like the jury just failed to follow the instructions as given. that is sitting in front of the federal court, we'll ask them to grant us a new trial to prevent the miscarriage of justice. >> we will be keeping an eye on this case, thank you so much for joining us, again an attorney for corona's reo. thank you. i want to turn now to charles coleman junior, he is an msnbc legal analyst and civil rights attorney, and the host of the charles coleman podcast. what do you make of this jury

awarding 30 $600 especially as a former prosecutor? >> i do think that in many cases it is easy to say that the jury got it right, but this is an instance where i think the jury got it wrong, i do agree that more likely than not the jury may have struggled with some of the instructions that were handed down by the judge, which is why it is so important when you are a trial attorney to make sure that you spend a painstaking amount of time going over that with the judge, but on a larger level when you step back away from this and you look at it i think it says a lot about how desensitized we have become against the notion of police violence against black and brown bodies in america, this was an egregious act that we saw on video, and the fact that it resulted in such a poultry verdict is proof positive of the fact that we have seen this over and over again and have become desensitized to the point where it is no longer shocking, it is no longer as offensive as it should be, and that is why you saw the verdict be what it was, because it does not hit the sensibilities of

everyone the same way as it would have if we were not seeing these types of things occur over and over again. >> as you talk about people becoming desensitized to the videos that we are showing just now. what do you think this verdict also says to police officers including one officer who was fired after this incident? >> i think it is very important for us to understand that american policing is not grounded in a sense of service and protection. it is grounded in a sense of violence and aggression. when you watch this video and you see the verdict that occurred after a trial. that only reinforces that to law enforcement. particularly when you are talking about engaging black and brown bodies. and so, that is why this judgment has to be so shocking and has to be so problematic and offensive. because without this it only opens the door and further to the course for more things like this to continue to happen. >> and i also want to ask you about a case or a situation

that happened in memphis. five police officers were fired yesterday after the chief said they violated the department policies thrown a traffic stop and in the death of 29 year old tire nichols. what do you make about this sort of inconsistency of how police officers are dealt with when you see deaths or cases where it seems like peoples constitutional rights are being violated? >> i think, number one, you cannot ignore the victims are, that is the piece that has been very apparent to me going forward. in terms of looking at how these cases have been dealt with, administratively and internally, who the victims are matter and by that i mean the racial composition of who those victims are. the gender composition of who those victims are, where they come from, their socioeconomic class, all of these things make a difference in terms of how they are dealt with. the other side is that what is the ideology of the police chief? what is the ideology of the

commanding officers who are responsible for making these decisions? all of these things play a factor in why you see such a desperate level of treatment between different officers who have committed different crimes across different police units. we are not talking about police violence in a vacuum. this is an american problem, this is not limited to a particular system, not limited to a particular area or a region. or a department or a precinct, this is a problem that is occurring nationally, so, when you look at the differences in terms of how things are dealt with you have to pay attention to who the victims are, where they come from and who is making the decisions. >> i also want to ask you about elijah mcclain, who is of course a young man who died in colorado, a number of police officers and paramedics have now pleaded not guilty in relation to charges with his death, i wonder do you think there is possible justice that he might get, that his family might get? >> i think unfortunately the notion of justice in his story is far out of reach because he

is no longer here and will not be here with us, i think the most that we can hope for his accountability, in terms of holding some of the officers if not all of the officers who are responsible with how they dealt with this young man, who is clearly experiencing a mental health episode when they approached him in the store, as he asked them please leave me alone, leave me alone and so on and so forth, the most we can help foreign accountability and i do think that is still possible. >> certainly a important point to make that the justice is than being here, thank you so much charles coleman junior. >> and, next, florida republicans have found their latest target in the culture wars, and once again students are caught in the middle. we will explain after a quick break. ter a quic break. or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and it's proven to help provide clearer skin

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will be cutting 12,000 jobs worldwide, google ceo sent out a memo to him plays stating that the layoffs will happen immediately in the u.s., google joins tech giants like meta, sweater, salesforce and amazon that have already cut more than 190,000 jobs since last year, meanwhile florida governor ron desantis appears to be stepping up his campaign across what he calls woke ideology. >> we reject this woke ideology, way will never surrender to the woke mob, florida is where woke goes to die. >> now in florida's bandless, a new high school advanced placement course on african american history, florida's department of education says the chorus is, quote, contrary to florida law and significantly laxative casual value. the department did not say which law the course violates but last year desantis did sign

the so-called stop woke act, which whisper strict how race is taught and florida schools. joining me now is the president and ceo of the children's defense fund, thank you for being here reverend wilson. i want to point out there for a democratic state senator tweeted in response to this action it is quote ap african american studies got cut, considering class like european history and japanese language and culture are being taught in florida, i wonder what your reaction is to this. >> thank you very much for covering the story, it is important that we lift up a light on those who are trying to take african american history out of our schools, in this case trying to keep it from being affirmed as a course of study for young people heading into higher education. our response, frankly, first and foremost to the governor is to say that his education department is lacking the kind of credibility and assessment that has been happening for

over a decade for this ap course, so, they are just inaccurate and that, and number two they're critically engaged in pushing back, because what we know is that students who have culturally relevant pedagogies have access to accurate history, have a better understanding of society and are better citizens to be engaged in the franchise of democracy. what he is doing his anti-democratic and it is anti-education, and clearly discriminatory when it comes to black and brown student. in this case black student specifically in the state of florida. >> he talked about students becoming good citizens, i wonder how important it is for students to be learning this history, but also for the adults they become, the professionals whether they are going to be lawyers, or doctors that they learn this history. >> it is absolutely important, this is what ap is saying, that this is so critical that students across the country not

only need access to african american studies and african american history, but they need an opportunity to engage in deep thought and reflection as they prepare for higher education and that we need specialized studies as we do in other areas. this is something that educators have continued to affirm, it is one of the things that has informed our work in 29 states across the country for the children's defense fund freedom schools, trying to teach k through 12 students about their history, about the notions of the country, and about their social agency, but also a critical importance for all adults, to have an understanding and appreciation of their fellow citizens, neighbors, where they come from, and it allows us to relate to one another and a multi cultural, multi racial community that is our nation, as someone who is deeply interested in leading this nation i find it appalling at

the governor desantis is trying to keep a segment of the population's history from being taught in our schools. >> and, a quick follow-up question, i want to point out that 28 presidents of colleges and community colleges announced that they would be seeking to eliminate policies and academic programs that they see as forcing students to learn about critical race theory, i wonder what you make of that action and the president could set as republicans are using the word woke as a way to stop people from learning about race. >> yeah, i think you make a great point, number one this is a part of a national movement and a conversation that ron desantis in the interest of his presidential ambitions is jumping in front of, it is challenging that we saw legislation and the texas session in 2021, the ohio session in 2021, that we also needed to push back against as it sought to engage in revisionist history. to take honest education out,

what we find here, frankly, it's just an attempt to tweak accurate history, not even critical race theory. as much as critics call troy relevant pedagogy is important, what they are actually pushing back against is just honest and accurate historical study that has been validated by historians themselves, this is forging an opportunity to live in a thriving multi racial democracy. >> thank you so much reverend dr. wilson, coming up on our next hour, the rising threat of political violence in a failed republican candidate charged in a series of shootings targeting democrats, and, 50 years after of how the supreme court has changed both sides of the abortion debate, all that and more when we come back, stay with us. with us. yeah you are, because it's a big deal, when you get a big deal. wayfair deals so big that you might get a big head.

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we are live in our nation's capital. this is a whole new hour of msnbc. today a dual, -- battles are playing out here in washington, d.c.. president biden is talking about the controversy surrounding his classified documents. he says, quote, he has no regrets. at the same time, and economic crisis is threatening to send us off a cliff. the u.s. hit the debt limit. the department began enacting,

quote,