a very good day two of you from msnbc headquarters in new york. welcome to alex witt reports. we begin with some breaking news. new confirmation today of a department of justice investigation. reportedly related to the nationwide baby formula shortage that we all remember. and specifically about abbott labs. joining me now is msnbc legal analyst and not a criminal defense attorney. as well as nbc's kathy clark. welcome to you both. i want to start with you here. what are you learning about this investigation? this is the country's largest baby formula maker. >> yeah. alex, this is some big news. the wall street journal was the first to report that the company is now under a criminal federal investigation. >> the doj is now investigating

this. the company is now cooperating it according to the spokesperson. we should note, alex, how we got here. that is when they voluntarily shut down production of infant formula to calm the michigan plant. where several reports of infants getting sick after consuming some of the products. this only worsen the instant i formula shortage. investigators moved in. they look into what is happening. they were not able to find the source the bacteria that was linked back to the kids that got sick. long story short, there is an agreement to say that they will take steps to ensure that their products are safe moving forward. beside open up that plant. it there is the news today.

>> i remember you covering it as well. there was nothing on the shelves. how are they going to do about treating their children? was there any reaction to this before the legal aspects? >> great question. it is something that has been lingering for quite some time. people wanted some answers and some accountability. there was obviously that probe i. they were able to link the moment with the children. families were up in arms. for several months, he asked. this only exacerbated the situation. they did not have the infant formula for the families it needed it. here we are. families are finally possibly getting some answers as the doj launches this investigation. >> let's ask danny about that. as kathy rightly said, the wall street journal was the one reported that this would potentially be a criminal investigation. how does this get criminal?

what is behind that? >> this is very curious to me. as a company has said, there was apparently a lack of a genetic match between the formula and the sickness that the infants had. if there is no causation, if there is no connection between the east to advance, how can that elevate to a criminal investigation. unless the doj has information that hire executives are people in middle management were aware of. they could've deliberately ignored it. worse, they could've even covered it up. there is not any evidence of that right now. but there must be something, some thread that the doj season ordered a logic criminal investigation. negligence does not seem as likely that they would stop looking for criminality at the company. >> again, if they are aware and did not report it. that is deemed criminal. to your point, if somebody makes a mistake, if there is some sort of a bacteria, if

something is not clean properly, and that is not criminal. correct? >> right. you can imagine a situation where it might be. generally speaking, i think that is a fair statement. there is always the possibility of bacterial infection. we probably a bacteria crawling all over us all the time. you can accidentally come into contact with it. you can imagine a situation where nobody was negligent. somehow, the paul product still got infected. there is no one hunted percent way to prevent any kind of bacterial infection. >> okay. this is most curious you. can say that at the state. thank you. we will keep on top of the story. let's go to the days of the big headlines. the white house is shutting down any hope that republicans might have for negotiating over the debt ceiling. this is both kevin mccarthy and president biden say that they look forward to meeting. nowhere yet on a date or time for that sit down. this spokesperson reiterated

the four white house stance. no negotiation on a debt ceiling. also today, new reaction to the department of justice. telling the republican chair, jim jordan, information on ongoing investigations is off limits. here is the michigan congressman on that. >> jim jordan and many house republicans know no better. there are ongoing investigations i. they have to maintain the integrity of investigations. -- why are republicans so bent on trying to interfere with investigation at the heart of justice? >> in a letter, the doj says that they are ready to work with investigators. they won't share with ongoing case information. this is according to release

from the u.s. customs and border protection. -- this is the record high. new information from an interview with the lead january six committee investigator. timothy told my colleague nicole about similarities between the charlotte whites premised rally and the january 6th attack. witness testimony about trump's influence on the decision to participate. there were mark meadows text messages. they were connected to media personalities. that was the role of some members of congress. he decided that he would not sit for an interview. i >> look, it is a change course. we were on the process with mr. meadows. he was afraid to come in. he provided documents. 1000 patients of documents. text messages that were important.

we received the tax messages and documents. he changed his mind. the problem is that he already help the committee by providing this information. i don't know what was going on. his book came out around the same time. the former president publicly criticize tim. this was all happening around the same time. did he get cold feet or some kind of other pressure? i don't know. >> there is much more to dig into from that. fascinating details that you might have heard. we have more on that in the next hour. we are with the former chief of staff. we are with the former homeland security. olivia troye joins us. we also have the washington post congressional reporter. that is ahead at one eastern. first, a lot of developments from capitol hill in the administration. we have two reports for you. first, nbc's julie is joining us now from capitol hill with new reaction today over republican committee assignments. welcome, julie. how are members of congress

reacting to the controversial figures? there were landing spots on some top committees. >> the members of his parties that are allies of former president trump. i want to take a look. -- i am with scott and we'll worry i. -- they are back on committees that they were booted off of. democrats were citing threat these lawmakers had may. there is the language and rhetoric that they used against other democrats. now they're being put back on those committees. most are back on the energy committee. there is the committee of oversight. the house is number one panel of republican means. this is the number one tool of holding the federal government and biden ministration accountable. all of them will have access to a pretty information. a lot of it is classified. they will have upgraded clearance to access that information. marjorie taylor greene is an

especially interesting one here. in the last several months, reporters, including myself, they have watched her transform into an ally of mccarthy's. always supporting him from start to finish for that gavel. he is then warning here with a prime spot. not just on oversight, but homeland as well. they will be looking in and digging into mayorkas's role in the southern border and things like that. i want you to take a listen to what one powerful democrat, ranking member of the house armed services committee, this is what they had to say about this. >> i think that what we have seen areas with the far-right. as many people have said, it is not just that they're willing to take hostages, they're willing to shoot them. what is going to happen if they are trying to shut down the government every time they don't get something that they want? it is gonna be an ongoing fight. we democrats need to make sure that we stand up to the principles of governance. we need to pass legislation in the interest of american people in the face of that. >> they will continue sitting

on adam smith's committee there. you have heard that. -- they are cutting defense funding as well. that is something to watch. that all comes to a department of justice. jim jordan's the judiciary of the committee. he will not get any information on the ongoing investigations. you see is a man on your screen. that will be interesting to see how it plays out as well. >> it is extraordinary. there is an ongoing investigation. we are not giving you it. let's go to nbc in delaware. that is where the president is spending his weekend. house speaker kevin mccarthy will meet. is there any agreement on the debt ceiling? is it even remotely possible? >> well, alex, it seems like a

white house and congressional republicans are on opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to what they think needs to be done and order for the united states to not default. this came from president biden yesterday. he says he's willing to sit down with kevin mccarthy. >> be realistic. don't confuse the national debt with reduction on a yearly basis. the debt that we are paying on, and we are gonna have a little discussion about that -- they have accumulated over 200 years. not a joke. >> he says when that meeting is likely to happen. the timing of this is what is going to be so interesting. the united states may have reached that 31 trillion-dollar

debt limit on thursday. we know from the treasury secretary in her own words that she took these extraordinary measures. there were these accounting tricks that were able to pay the debt. the white house as time to reach negotiation here. we know how congress works on these deadlines. especially when you consider the pressure that they are under from fellow house republicans. these republicans say they don't want him to even consider a negotiation that raise the debt ceiling until he demands spending cuts in other areas. >> it just takes one person. thank you very much. coming up next, this is a story that was under the radar this week. it is very concerning. this is what we know about a

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at the follow through on his threat to remove a trio of democrats from key committees. he has long said that he would oust a person from foreign affairs, and two more from foreign intelligence. pointing to republican objections to their actions. we talk about marjorie taylor greene, removed from the committee in 2021. nancy pelosi is now blasting mccarthy's claimed democrats to the president. >> didn't you open the door to this? >> no. but we saw the president that they will follow. if they have members, as they did, who threaten the security of our members on the committee, if they were a danger to our members, they were threatening them, they would then be put off the committee. if they have the accusation

about any of our members, let's see what they have to say. it is clear that their members were a threat to our members. this is about maintaining safety. there is the fact they want to take this people off the committee. it is philosophical. >> joining me now is the illinois congressman. this is a democratic member of the house appropriations committee. welcome, my friend. do you agree, did mccarthy move the democrats because republicans don't want to listen to different views on committees? is it that? is it political payback? is it both? is>> it's both, but let me put t this way. adam schiff is probably their worst enemy. not because he stood up to president trump, but because he was so good at it. i watch it in the ring for years, they don't have anybody who can compete with them with legal acumen, leadership, messaging. and then i know the reasons

they want to knock him off keep changing, but the bottom line is, he was so effective. if you can't beat them, take him off the playing field. eric swalwell, particularly effective, so they come up with some issues. but hey, if they really had issues dealing with eric swalwell, the current president at that time, president trump, hated him so much, he would've used it. so if you can't beat them, knock them off and that's difficult. here's why it's even more important. i can't think of a committee beyond the intelligence committee that matters most to have experience and institutional memory. the world is a very dangerous place. do you really want to knock off people who've been there before? so interesting, your assessment, swalwell and schiff, they're so effective and schiff in particular always seemed conquerable, collected. remember, whatever was being thrown at him, i see your point there. let's talk about marjorie taylor greene, who supported

mccarthy. now on the homeland security and oversight committees. paul gosar, by the way, a mccartney hold out, on the house oversight and national resources, natural resources committees. now, that's on top or a number of mccarthy holdouts and they've all -- key committees. what does this tell you, particularly seeing green and gosar on oversight? >> yeah, i had a particularly dark moment looking at the screens appointment, where i said, you know, this will afford her the opportunity to really investigate those space lasers causing fires in california. i mean, seriously though, i think speaker pelosi had it right. we can have philosophical differences and they can get intense, but there was a line crossed here, where they posted threats to other members both miss greene and gosar. there ought to be, in our rules, passed every two years.

so this is not the subject of debate. if you go there, if you incite violence against anyone, especially other members, you are going to be censored and are going to be knocked off committees. so, everyone knows the rules are the same and we don't have this silly back and forth issues. >> yeah, clearly not going to send a missile to nancy pelosi right there. let's go to many republicans who say they're not going to vote to increase the debt ceiling unless there are spending cuts. but the white house says, that is a nonstarter. how worried are you about both sides now digging in their heels at this point? can and how will this impasse be negotiated in time? >> concern more than i have been in 14 years in congress, because of a potential frosty -- that the speaker made with them. he would take this to this extreme and i know there is a more reasonable middle ground. i guess reagan era republicans who don't want to go there with something like this and who

better to call it and reagan when he talked about that race in the debt ceiling? he said, the full consequences of the default or even the serious prospect of a default by the u.s. is impossible to forget and awesome to contemplate. listen to president reagan if you don't want to listen to us. hey, if you want to talk about addressing the debt and the deficit, let's remember president trump had the third largest increase because of his irresponsible tax cuts. if you want to talk about a responsible way to address this, president obama put in place -- commission in 2010 that had big, balanced, bipartisan, thoughtful, constructive ways to deal with this. not short term, quick hits with a sort of damocles hanging over us. this has to be handled responsibly. >> in terms of the way this all can be attacked or approached, if you will, first of all, you have the demand for budget cuts.

it's coming from the hard-line republicans. do they not understand what default could mean for the economy? how it could eventually affect their own constituents. i mean, does this once again come down to just who's going to blink first? or is there some kind of an avenue for the debt limit and spending cuts to be treated as separate issues? >> i think long term, congress has not shown, especially my colleagues across the aisle, that they're responsible enough to address this. so, i think long term, you've got to look at flipping the law, where unless congress acts, there is no debt ceiling. that doesn't mean we're irresponsible because we have to come to terms with this. but not in a short term, haphazard fashion like they're talking about right now. we want to talk about this, there's a way to do it. just not in this manner. >> here's something that is of concern. the u.s. coast guard, as you know, has been monitoring a

russian vessel. it's believed to be an intelligence gathering ship. it sits off the coast of hawaii. the appearance of a russian surveillance ship along the u.s. mainland coastline, that's not so unusual. but hawaii? and in this context, because given russia's veiled threats to use nuclear weapons, does this increase any concern for you? >> i think, look, again this sort of thing has happened. there was a similar ship off the southeastern coast of the united states in 2019 acting in a very dangerous fashion. my biggest concern right now is the fact that tensions are so high. it harkens back to the cuban missile crisis, where kennedy was concerned, justifiably, that someone might miss read a situation that some sort of accident can take place. and that can trigger a much higher risk and an escalation. that's not necessary. so, i think right now that's the dangerfleet, the reasons

the russians, i would imagine, but it's all the more reason to get our committee structure in place and have committees like my own intelligence committee operating with matters like this being so serious. >> all right, -- congressman mike quigley, my friend, good to see you. thank you so much. so, did you think the stormy daniels case was over and done with? think again. my next guest could be the key to that case and he's talking to us about a new conversation he just had with the manhattan district attorney. that will happen after the break. will happen after the break. break. for her. i may not be in perfect health, but i want to stay in my home, where my family visits often and where my memories are. i can do it with help from a prep cook, wardrobe assistant and stylist, someone to help me live right at home. life's good.

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by downloading the app today. duckduckgo, privacy simplified. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. >> the manhattan district attorney says that his office is now moving into the next chapter of its trump investigation and my next guest could be the key to building the case. the new york times reports,

trump's former personal lawyer, michael cohen, spoke with the a, i mean brett, about hush money paid to stormy daniels, who said she had an affair with trump. that's according to people with knowledge of the matter. the times goes on to say, the questioning of cohen is the clearest sign yet the dea is ramping up his investigation into trump's role in the 130,000 dollar hush money deal. and michael cohen is joining me right now. voila, in the flesh. of course, the new york times bestselling author, host of the mea culpa podcast and author of the book, revenge, how donald trump weaponize the u.s. department of justice against his critics. welcome, michael. okay, don't push back too much, okay? don't tell me you can't talk about this. i will try to ask you questions that you can answer. >> i'm sorry. yeah, please only give me the questions i can answer. >> how about this? what can you tell us about your meeting with the manhattan the a and is it possible you are going to talk with them again?

>> okay, so i met with them this week for a little over somewhere in the ballpark of about two and a half hours. i was contacted via my attorney, wiley davis, to come into speak with them again. i do suspect that i will be -- the district attorneys again. i can also tell you that the team that was there were incredibly professional, well versed on the topic. something that i didn't really expect, especially post the resignation of both mark pomerantz and carrie done. two attorneys at the d.a.'s office that i had spent quite a bit of time with. and this was my 14th meeting with the manhattan district attorney's office. >> yeah, i'm curious, michael, what are those talks like? i mean, what's the tenor of? it does the dea ask you questions and then you answer distinctly? i mean, you are in attorney.

you know you should never say more than you should say. do they just say, tell us what you know, michael? they turn you loose? i mean, how long does this go on? how long did the meeting last, he said two and a half hours? how much did you do the talking? >> i would say it was a relatively -- it was a good conversation. obviously, they ask you questions, that's the reason that i was there. about a half hour of it was more introductions and sort of some rules that they wanted, including one of the rules which is not to discuss the sum and substance of the conversation with the media. more on my podcast. >> yeah, please don't talk to alex. okay, so, generally speaking, michael, you went to jail because of the stormy daniels hush money payments and while that hush money was what launched the dea's investigation in 2018, persecutor shifted to a broader probe into trump's business

practices. do you have any sense of what led them back to this? i mean, what kind of threat are they trying to follow now? why did they put a hold on it before? >> that is a great question and that's actually a question that should be directed to mark pomerantz, carry done, or to alvin bragg. remember that the dea had come to otisville, where i was incarcerated three times. my understanding was that they were going to be proceeding forward with this matter, for whatever the reason might be. and i don't know the answer to it. they elected to hold off, yet there i was again back before the district attorney's office talking about the same topic. amongst other things. >> is there a statute of limitations on something like this? did that play into it, potentially? >> clearly, the district attorney is fully knowledgeable about the statute of

limitations on any case and due to covid, there was a polling of statute of limitations, so i'm 100% certain that, trust me when i tell you that the team that i met, like i said before, incredibly professional and this is not going to come down to a statute of limitations defense. >> you know donald trump, so the question is, how worried should he be? how do you think he's reacting? i mean, don't pay attention to his bluster and his pushback, and putting things out on social media. do you think he's nervous? do you think he's lying awake at night because of this? >> well, i think you should be lying awake at night -- based upon the multitude of litigation that currently, is it on his doorstep? you know, as -- had said, the wheels of justice turn slowly, but ultimately, the bones, you know, turned to dust.

that's really what's going to happen. and we are seeing it almost -- right? so, you saw allen weisselberg remain -- rikers island for 15 or so violations. i should say, violations that spanned 15 years of fraud. and then, of course, you saw the -- against the trump organization and trump payroll court. 17 counts whereby they were fined for one point $6 million. i will say to you, you know, in my conversations with friends and media, many people, myself, of course, included, we feel very unfulfilled based upon what has happened. yet another trump lackey, like myself, allen weisselberg is now going to do 100 days in rikers. the trump organization find 1.6 million, big deal. he's already drifted from his supporters more than that. i, myself, even received an

email from his group, boasting about how the radical left and the media are going after your favorite president, so, you know, send money today and be one of the first. i mean, the whole thing is a joke. he probably made several millions of dollars off of that 1.6 million dollar violation. i do believe that -- district attorney and our unsinkable attorney general, tish james, really -- keeping him up at night to answer your question. because they're both very significant cases and i believe that they are easy for the prosecutors to prosecute and get convictions upon. >> given your knowledge of the case, michael, given your experience as an attorney, putting it all together, what is the chance that donald trump goes to jail because of this? >> well, i do believe, and again, it's my opinion, as an

out disbarred attorney, i want to make sure that stays clear. my opinion is -- >> but you still know your stuff. >> i would say so. >> one of the things that -- will end up doing, in my opinion, is that donald will be indicted. whether or not he ends up going to prison is a whole other story. there could be, based upon the fact that he is a former president of the united states, it may not be a prison environment that he can ultimately get sentenced to. but rather a very strict home confinement scenario. let's not forget that for four years, despite the fact that he's really a very dumb person and does not have a great recollection or a great memory, nevertheless for four years, he still received classified briefings, national security classified briefings, and if you think that donald wouldn't sell any of that information,

maybe he's already done so. but if you think that he would not sell it for a can of tuna or -- stamps, you would be inaccurate. so, i think the national security see they would probably put him in a very strict confinement scenario. >> all right, my friend. i want to thank you for not once saying i can't answer that. well done! i will look for the senior next time you come in the studio. okay, good to see you, michael, thank you. some of the most extreme republicans in congress are now on the house oversight committee and while it's concerning, it may not be surprising. a new york times article this week had this quote. republicans have long treated oversight as the land of misfit toys. we will put that into context for you, next. ex for you, next. for you, next.

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crashed into the pentagon. there is never any evidence shown for a plane in the pentagon. >> i object to the electoral votes of my beloved commonwealth of pennsylvania. we need to look at these late night spikes that took place in various states. we need to look at this video footage that we have of ballots being pulled out from underneath tables. >> we can do that, bottle through on this audit. folks, if it's what i've been told, and i had people come to me early hours of the day after from the security exchange

fraud department to the cia fraud department. >> i still have to pick my -- for what marjorie taylor greene said about the pentagon and the plane on 9/11. okay, those lawmakers you just heard spreading conspiracies and misinformation, they are playing major roles in the new congress. marjorie taylor greene, scott perry, lauren boebert, paul gosar. all placed on key committees, including the house oversight committee. the assignments for greene and gosar come after democrats stripped both of them from their committees in 2021. joining me now is -- political strategist and host of bigger than politics on sirius xm. and kirk bardella, a democratic strategist and former gop spokesperson for the house oversight committee. jaw-dropping, right, guys? i mean, it's extraordinary when you listen to these people. but i want to draw on your experience for civil, kurt. your oversight committee experience. a spokesperson for the republicans there, give me a sense of what you think is in

store for the committee's work and potential results, now that steadfast election deniers are on it. >> well, i think that you're going to see kind of that continuation of this embrace of conspiracy theory. and now they are going to use these structures of the oversight committee, the power, the authority, and the legitimacy of congressional oversight, to try to make those fantastic claims more realistic. they are going to use things like subpoenas and depositions, and the headlines that those activities generate to try to cleanse their conspiracy theory, make it look like there's a bear there. even though there is not. -- >> hang on, hang on. but kurt, you say there is no there there. so, there isn't. this is just going to be a big waste of time, right? i mean, they will never be able to put this into a context that is believable or truthful, right? >> well, that's not the goal of

the oversight committee under these republicans. truth and facts, that's not the point. what they want is the charge being worse than the actual facts. they want to make sure that they can lead with the accusation and then try to conduct an investigation that will bear some fruit. it's completely backwards to how you're supposed to conduct oversight. if you're doing it responsibly, you're not going out there making fantastic claims and accusations, going after family members of the president. you're following actual evidence and then drawing conclusions. in this case, they're making the conclusions first and trying to back that up with evidence later. >> okay, i see your point. so, shermichael comes that eric swalwell, one of the three democrats expected to be kicked off committees by republicans. not for making false or offensive statements like those demoted republicans it back in 2021, but seemingly more as an act of revenge, right? take a listen to what he told msnbc about the new assignments for those far-right republicans. >> what you're seeing here is a party that barely won the house,

lost the senate, kevin mccarthy took 15 votes, you know, to become speaker. he doesn't have political capital, he has a political deficit. he's not -- inflation, gas, grocery cost, health care, border, crime, all the things he told voters he would deliver on. they have -- insurrection and elsie and they are going to carry out donald trump's legal system. >> insurrection llc. so, do you agree, shermichael? do these assignments undercut the credibility of these investigations? >> i mean, i don't know if they do because i agree with the fact that kevin mccarthy doesn't have much of a majority. i agree with the fact that kevin mccarthy gave away everything to become speaker. no one is surprised by that who understands washington politics. but nonetheless, they were given the house. now, we could argue whether or not democrats could've done more. we could argue whether or not republicans -- laws and requirements, certain other states had an impact and

-- we can argue all of those things. but they won, and so, with that said, i think the expectation for most of the american people, particularly when we think about passing the budget, trying to run the government, continuing to make sure that the economy does not crater. the american people expect the republican party to issue some form of illegitimacy to say, okay, we are going to pay out the debt, but also keep the government open. but then republican say, we will crash the government in total, alex. so i think kevin mccarthy has to be very careful here because so the congressman's point, it's a slim majority. it can change in two years. and so, what i'm more intrigued by, not necessarily what the lauren boebert of the world are going to do, alex. i'm more intrigued by whether or not kevin mccarthy will have enough power to actually work with democrats on some legislative issues, or will he crater completely with to some of the more far-right individuals of the party, which makes it even more difficult to govern over the next two years? that, i think, is where we

really pay lot of attention. >> i was going to say, that'll be super interesting, i agree. let's look at politico, which reports that biden world is absolutely giddy at greengrocer and boebert being placed on oversight, with one white house ally calling it a political gift. is that how you see it, kurt? will these far-right republicans on oversight, will they put democrats in a better position to combat the investigations? we >> here is what we know about these cast of characters. 14 of the new members appointed at the oversight committee are election deniers. when you put people up there who have shown a penchant to embrace wild, fantastic, conspiracy theories not rooted in reality at all and undermines the credibility of anything that you do as a committee. what's going to have been wondering some of these committee proceedings, these cast of characters say something outlandish. they say something not factual, they just outright lie, get caught, it will undermine the entirety of all of those proceedings. i'm not entirely sure why republicans think that this is going to be a winning strategy

for them. i don't think that when you're trying to cast yourself and calmer is really doing a lot of this, going out there publicly saying, i want to have serious oversight, i want to be credible, i want to be facts first. but the members that he's put on his own committee don't embrace that type of style at all. so, it very much undermines everything that even he -- eric swalwell said it right, insurrection llc. that's what you see when you look at the members of the judiciary and oversight committee. >> one last question on embattled republican congressman, george santos, who was assigned to committees, small business and the size, space, and technology, shermichael. right now, he faces federal, state, local, actually international investigations as well. and fellow republicans are demanding he resign from congress. what message does it send that none of that seems to faze speaker mccarthy? >> well, i mean, look mccarthy campaigned with him. he also received -- voted for santos to become speaker. so, perhaps considering how -- many votes it took and how

close and narrow it was, perhaps we will see some level of loyalty, not seeing much of anything. -- >> hang on, hang on, hang on. do you know george santos's loyalty? i mean, how does that reflect on you? not you, but kevin mccarthy. >> look, alex, no, i get what you're saying. i think kevin mccarthy's perspective, alex, he doesn't really have any room to lose any support from anybody. and i guess we could argue about what that says about kevin mccarthy's character. again, it goes to that ultimate argument that even gates said on the floor that should someone who was going to give -- lead and entire house? probably not, alex. >> okay, thanks for putting it that way. shermichael singleton, kurt bardella, always good to see you both. thanks, guys. meantime, the looming questions hanging over the movie set shooting case and did alec baldwin actually pull the trigger and might he face jail time? trigger and might he face jail time time embarassing, difficult to talk about, and could be peyronie's disease or pd,

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of actor alec baldwin, who is facing criminal charges in the fatal shooting on the side of his movie, rust. the new mexico district attorney announced baldwin and the films armorer will both be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter. if convicted, they could each face up to 18 months in jail. we are going to bring out anderson b c legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, danny solace, right now. so, the big question, here it is. and it's an interesting one because it is, did baldwin pull the trigger? so, take a listen to how he answered that question. this was in a 2021 q&a. and why the prosecutor is refuting that story. it seems simple, but take a listen. >> no, no. i would never point a gun and pulled the trigger at them, never, ever. that was a training i had. you don't put a point to get someone and pull a trigger. >> that's not true and we know that from the fbi lab report.

that gun would not have fired without the trigger having been pulled. >> both sides here, so where is the truth and how significant is this detailing in the case? >> there are really two things that alec baldwin says in that interview. one is not so problematic, and the other, i think, is. that alec baldwin believes he did not pull the trigger. i think they can work with that on the defense, because even if he did, his argument was i pulled the trigger of something i didn't think was a gun. but then alec baldwin takes another step, and that's problematic for him. he says, i would never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. look at that, he's creating his own standard of care that may have been breached. had he not said that, his defense could say, look, he doesn't know it is a gun and if you don't think you're holding a gun, if you think you're holding a piece of plastic, then it's not as dangerous to pointed at someone. but then alec baldwin essentially says, i would never do that. now, here's the thing. whether or not he pulled the trigger, i don't think is as

critical as some others do. and here's why. let's say the report, the jury believes the report that he did, he had to have pulled this trigger. again, the fallback position is, i believe this was a cold gun, i was assured this was a cold gun by the people who should know. the first 80 and the armorer. i rely on them to do their jobs, whether or not the executive producer or the actor holding the gun. that's why i hire these people. yes, the armor may not have had a lot of experience, but yet she was an armorer and i trusted her. >> -- likelihood he does get conviction and then have to do jail time? >> this is tough. my prediction is that he will be acquitted. i'm usually wrong about these predictions, they are hard, it's hard to predict these things. but i think this is a strong case for the defense. i think they have a number of options. you will see a battle of the experts and it really is anyone's game. >> okay, we will have you back to talk about it as things develop. danny solace, thanks very much. next, new and explosive information in an interview

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