quo is not working. we need to re-examine what we're doing and what may work better. and i hope that this tragedy doesn't just go on a long list of many others that we don't even talk about until the next one comes up. >> that is the los angeles county sheriff yesterday answering questions about the weapon used by the gunman who killed ten people late saturday night. we're going to have the very latest in the investigation and the stories of the heroes who stopped the shooter from taking more lives. also ahead, more classified materials found at president biden's home. but the justice department did not initiate this latest search. it comes as the president's chief of staff is leaving the white house. we'll tell you about the person in line to fill the position. >> i think ron klain stayed in this position, he did, longer than any other chief of staff

for a democratic president. >> oh, i see. i know what you mean. and we'll have the latest developments from eastern europe as allies are at odds in sending tanks to ukraine. >> germany was going to block the tanks, now they're talking about letting poland send tanks. it looks like the tanks are going to be going to ukraine. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe," it's monday, january 23rd. with us the host of "way too early" and white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, and msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. mike is here for the morning, that's if he doesn't, you know. >> the irish good-bye with the jacket on the back of the chair. we'll see you in a few minutes. we're going to get to all of these stories. we have an awful lot to talk about. ambassador bill taylor is going to be talking about ukraine. let's talk first, though, about nfl playoffs. first, jonathan lemire, i'll go to you. there are two quarterbacks that

did very well. patrick mahomes gutted it out. helped the chiefs win despite a high ankle sprain and joe burrow, just circle the date yesterday, burrow in a snowstorm in buffalo. today he took it to the next level. everybody already knew he was good, but joe burrow yesterday, i'm sorry, i know you're going to flinch but, you know, i'm not saying he's going to be montana. i'm not saying he's going to be namath, i'm not saying he's going to be brady but he certainly is the best right now. one of the best right now, and he did it under the worst possible circumstances. and josh allen who, coming into the year many would have said would have been one of the two best quarterbacks, just finished what at least for him was a dreadful season, and yesterday was just a fitting ending to a season where a great quarterback just under performed all year. >> certainly burrow has the same

coolness, calmness, leader in the pocket of a brady or montana. that's definitely fair. he was fantastic yesterday. the way he would step up in the pocket, never panic, make the right read, battle the elements, battle an incredibly emotional scene, damar hamlin who went into cardiac arrest a few weeks ago, he was at the game, we're seeing him there. remarkable that he was able to make it to the game. they were much better than josh allen who was really up and down all year. the bengals overcame the bills, the elements, and the chiefs who didn't have trouble with the jab jaguars as we expected. the big story line is how hurt is patrick mahomes. he suffered the high ankle sprain early in the game, missed basically about a quarter. his back up led a touchdown drive, so it helps to have a competent back up around. mahomes says he'll be okay. mri says high ankle sprain but he was clearly limping around on

the field. we'll see. if he's not 100%, though the chiefs are home that's going to be tough against the bengals. burrow versus mahomes. >> tony romo said, you know what, a guy can have a high ankle sprain, adrenaline can push him to finish the game, wake up the next morning, and you can't walk. anybody that says mahomes will definitely play next game, not so fast. we'll have to wait and see. mike, let's talk about two other quarterbacks, or at least two other games, let's talk about the 9ers and the cowboys. dak, you know. >> overrated. >> the team is built around him. he never comes through in the clutch. i thought it was something when he was getting angry at the cowboys kicker last week when he blows one game after another,

and did it yesterday. two interceptions in the first half. the cowboys desperately needed dak to finally have a good game. he just can't come through in the clutch, and now you have these dallas cowboys who haven't been to nfc championship game since 1995. 27 years. >> yeah, you know, joe, i'm just surprised that jerry jones hasn't fired the coach and the defensive coordinator and the receivers coach for the cowboys, i mean, they end up, you know, one of their starting tight ends, i believe, steps out of bounds. >> yeah. >> with the game clock ticking down to the 10. and you're right, the cowboys are out again, ouch the running, but this weekend proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the national football league is what everybody football fan seems to know a quarterback's league. we have jalen hurts, patrick

mahomes, josh allen and of course joe cool, joe burrow. and it was fascinating to watch and a lot of it depends on the protection they get. his protection was incredible. the bills collapsed defensively. >> and a lot of that has to do, jonathan lemire, with injuries. the thing is, the bills so banged up, obviously about damar, but their best defensive player banged up. the whole team just, i mean, they were just a shadow of themselves, jonathan lemire. >> and von miller was the pass rusher the bills brought in for the run, the playoffs. he was hurt, can't play. and the bengals have offensive linemen injuries as well. you wouldn't have known it yesterday. they played well and gave time. we should mention the fourth game of the weekend. >> i was going to say, we buried the league. i have got to say, the eagles looked like monsters. remember the monsters of the

midway, man, these guys are the monsters of, i don't know, what stadium, vet stadium, telecom, qqr, bitcoin stadium, whatever it is. they are the monsters of philadelphia. their running game looked amazing. jalen hurts running looked amazing. jalen hurts passing looked amazing. their defense looked amazing. people are looking at this game. a lot of giants fans are hanging their head thinking how terrible they are. it's not that the giants were this bad. they're not. this is just how good this eagles team is. >> yeah, they obliterated the giants. this game was over in a matter of minutes. look, the giants have had a great run. their magic ran out after minnesota. dale jones did not play well saturday. basically the whole team didn't. you're right, this was more about the eagles and giants. there were questions about hurts how healthy he was. he looked fantastic.

he played great and they were up by so much, they were able to rest. but they looked terrific in every facet of the game. running the ball, throwing the ball on defense, and eagles, 49ers next week is a classic in the making. >> yeah, i love the 49ers, mike. just there's so much to love about them. whether you're talking about mccaffrey on the offensive side of the ball or bosa on the defensive side of the ball. so many great players. great organization. it's been a great organization for decades, but man they are running up against an extraordinary team. i have to say right now, the two hottest teams of the four remaining, i mean, i think if you had to guess, you might say we're going to be seeing an eagles bengals super bowl. >> well, that could well be, but they're going to have to get past the 49ers on sunday, next sunday, in philadelphia. that game is going to be wild. the 49ers are a great club, and they're well led, their coach is

incredible. the game plans they have are incredible. you can't count the 49ers out. anybody with george kittle and, you know, mccaffrey, terrific team. >> i love the 9ers. let's get to our top story this morning, we'll start with the very latest developments in the deadly mass shooting saturday night in monterey park, california. ten people consider killed and at least ten others were injured when a man opened fire inside a ballroom packed with people who were celebrating the lunar new year. authorities say the 72-year-old gunman died yesterday from a self-inflicted gunshot wound as police closed in on his van in a parking lot in torrence, california. that's about 30 miles from the scene of the shooting. the los angeles county sheriff says two heroes stopped the suspect from carrying out another shooting on saturday night at a ballroom nearby in el

ham bra. the suspect fled the scene after they were able to disarm him. joining us, nbc news correspondent, kathy park. she lives in monterey park, california, what's the latest? she's live there, sorry. >> reporter: good morning to you. yeah, it was supposed to be a weekend of celebrations and festivities but it has been marked by tragedy, and right behind me, you are looking at a growing memorial outside that dance hall where the mass shooting took place. it happened roughly around 10:30 saturday evening. police say the gunman entered this building, began shooting indiscriminately. killed ten, injuring ten others, and moved to the second location you mentioned a few minutes away in el hambra, california. at that location, we are told that two community members were able to disarm the suspect. however, the suspect did get away, and there was an hours long man hunt, but that man hunt ended in torrence, california,

which is about 30 minutes outside monterey park. there was a white van that officials were looking for. they were eventually able to corner the suspect in the white van parked in the shopping center and the sheriff gave a description about what happened next. take a listen. >> our sheriff's s.w.a.t team approached and cleared the van and determined the suspect sustained a self-inflicted gunshot wound and was pronounced dead at the scene. investigators conducted a search of the vehicle and determined the mall inside van was the mass shooting suspect. >> reporter: and police, they have identified the suspect as 72-year-old huu can tran. we still don't have a lot of information about this individual. we can give you a little bit more information about the victims, though.

ten dead, ten were injured. we are told that seven remain hospitalized. the age range we're told it's 50s, 60s and beyond. and right now the ids of those individuals are not being released as they continue to process that information. guys, the big question is why? what motivated this individual to carry out such a deadly attack? this happened when the streets were clearing out for lunar new year celebrations. here in monterey park, it's a predominantly asian community, roughly 60% of the population is of asian descent and they host one of the largest new year's celebrations in southern california. obviously because of what happened on saturday evening, the events on sunday were cancelled. mika. >> nbc's kathy park, thank you very much for being on this morning. the mass shooting in monterey park, california, over the weekend is the deadliest in the u.s. since the massacre in

uvalde, texas, last may when 19 children and two teachers were killed. there have been at least 33 mass shootings in the u.s. so far this year, and it's still only january, according to the gun violence archive which defines a mass shooting of at least four people injured or killed. by that calculation, there were 648 mass shootings in the country last year, and even though that was down just slightly from 2021, that's nearly double the number recorded five years ago when there were 336. and according to pew research, gun murders in particular have climbed sharply in recent years. the 19,384 gun murders that took place in 2020 were the most since at least 1968 exceeding the previous peak in 1993. the 2020 total represented a 34%

increase from the year before, a 49% increase over five years. and 75% increase over ten years. major metropolitan areas also saw increases in murders last year. for example, in 2022, washington, d.c. recorded back-to-back years with 200 murders. for the first time in nearly 20 years and suffice it to say, there are developed countries that don't have this problem, joe. and yet we can't find agreement. >> i mean, most. you look at the numbers and compare for developed countries, western developed countries nobody comes close to the number of people killed per 100,000, per capita. as is the case here in america. i mean, these numbers are unbelievable. and by the way, again, i don't have to tell anybody that watches the show regularly. i don't want to ban guns. i'm a gun guy. i have several guns.

i'm comfortable around guns. i have grown up in gun cultures, mississippi, alaska, georgia, florida. i've grown up. i get it. i get it. but i don't get this, i don't get when murders by guns go up 50% in the past five years, republicans want to do nothing about it. i don't get how when murders by guns go up 75% over the past ten years, 75% over the past ten years, republicans want to do nothing about it. why am i saying republicans, i'll say maga republicans or trump republicans, no, here it's the republican party that other than the ten senators that stepped in and actually tried to pass some meaningful positive breakthroughs in gun safety laws, the proliferation of guns

continue. the shootings continue to explode, and mike, this is of course not left wing culture. this is not about banning guns, which is the false choice, the stupid choice that people are always given because that's the only way they can allow these companies to continue to make the millions and millions of dollars, make manufacturing guns. they're coming to take your guns, no, we just want some gun safety laws that allow universal background checks that stop crazy people from getting guns, that stop people from under 21 from getting guns, and then going to schools and shooting them up. but this isn't about some left wing conspiracy. this is about data that points it a tragic epidemic of gun violence, gun murders, specifically that keeps exploding in this country. again, mike, gun violence has

gone up 50% according to pew, over the past five years. did i say violence. let me fix it. murders from guns up 50% over the past five years. up 75% over the past ten years. and you look at that number, about 19,500 people killed by guns last year. guess what? mike, that's almost five times as many people who were killed by gunfire in the united states of america last year than who died in the iraq war. let me say that again. more americans died here at home than died fighting in the iraq war. in fact, almost five times as many americans died here last

year than died from 2003 to 2020 -- 2010 fighting in the iraq war. >> joe, we have been here 15 years, 15 years of mornings we have come in to go to work and talked about mass shootings. how many of them, thousands, i would estimate. 15 years of doing this. 15 years of watching senseless murders on street corners, in dance halls, in schools, a lot of them in schools. 15 years worth. and so here we are with the refusal of many members of the congress and many members of different state legislatures to answer a simple question, a simple yes-or-no question. and the question would be if you had the chance with the casting of your vote in your legislature, state or federal, if you had the chance to save a life by casting a vote, would you cast that vote?

yes or no. none of the stuff they're coming to take your guns, nobody is coming to take anyone's gun. no one. it's not in any piece of legislation. any sensible piece of legislation i have ever seen, and i think you would probably agree with me. they refuse to answer the question so it comes down to this, all of these mass murders, the root of it are clearly mental illness. criminality other psychological disturbances, but cowardice as well, especially in the united states congress, pure cowardice, and so we continue, 15 years after we began here on "morning joe," announcing another mass murder, this time in california, and guarantee, either later this week or next week or whenever, we'll be reporting another. >> just think about this chilling statistic, jonathan lemire, since the sandy hook shooting, when america was

supposed to be awakened, since the sandy hook shooting, murders by guns have gone up 75% in america. >> this is a uniquely american story and uniquely american tragedy. mike is right, it is relentless, these headlines of mass shootings. let's give some credit. there was a modest gun proposal, bipartisan gun legislation that went through congress last year, bipartisan in nature. it barely scratched the surface. so much more would need to be done. it is a culture of not just guns, but a culture of shootings. that is something that is a part of the american identity right now. and location changes, the city changes, the circumstances of the shooting change a little, it comes back to the same thing, a weapon that can take many lives in a matter of seconds, and, you

know, there was heroes yesterday who prevented further tragedy, and we'll salute them, but this is an all too familiar headline, and one right now there's no momentum for any sort of other gun legislation in the congress. there will be more of these stories in the days ahead. >> despite the fact, mika, that 90% of americans want universal background checks, and again, i keep talking about how republicans keep losing the suburbs, how republicans keep losing swing voters, how republicans keep losing these elections because they're out of step. this is just one more brick in the wall. >> it's adding up for them. >> it's one more brick in the wall. again, there are a lot of people who say wait a second, gun control is not popular. this isn't gun control. this is about gun safety and the world has changed. when you have 75% more people getting killed by guns, killed

by guns. >> this is like responding to an epidemic. >> than ten years ago. this is an epidemic on the rise. republicans in the house, the nra may want to deny the epidemic continues to explode. the numbers are there, people feel it. they feel it in their neighborhoods, on their streets, they feel it in their schools when they wake up and get ready to go to school in the morning. they feel it. and at some point, republicans are going to -- at some point it will happen. at some point, republicans are going to have to go along with the 90% of americans who want universal background checks, far sweeping red flag laws and other basic gun safety measures to protect our children, and to protect church goers, to protect people that go to country music festivals in las vegas from being gunned down just like

they're sitting targets. it's disgusting. >> we're going to turn now to the war if ukraine where there may have been a breakthrough in delivery of tanks to the nation. germany's foreign minister said yesterday her nation will not stand in the way if poland decides to send leopard 2 tanks to ukraine. the foreign minister's comments, a decision as to whether germany will supply tanks is forthcoming. until now, germany has linked the leopard tanks, whether they will provide their own abrams 2 tanks. u.s. officials have pushed back against sending the tanks, citing challenges around maintenance and training. poland's prime minister has said if nato and eu allies did not consent to poland sending the tanks, they were prepared to build a smaller coalition of countries that would send them anyway. >> good for poland. former u.s. ambassador to ukraine bill taylor, and nbc

chief international correspondent keir simmons. what's the very latest? >> reporter: i think we are at a pivot point over ukraine, and i think it's really shaking up the diplomatic picture. imagine being the german chancellor right now. you're upping german defense spending to 2% of gdp. no longer relying on russian energy, and you're sending massive military aid to ukraine, not enough, your critics say, now they want you to send battle tanks to donbas, despite the bitter history rolling toward the russian border during world war 2. germany is under pressure with the clock ticking, suggesting it might agree to poland sending german tanks, and berlin's hesitation over tanks has divided nato again with america stuck in the middle. it's not simply about tanks, it's about strategy. here's general millie speaking friday. >> from a military standpoint, i

still maintain that for this year, it would be very very difficult to militarily eject the russian forces from every inch of russian-occupied ukraine. that doesn't mean it can't happen. doesn't mean it won't happen, but it would be very very difficult. >> problem is, of course, if the chairman of the joint chiefs right that it's difficult for ukraine to reject russia this year, then when will it happen? will it ever happen? by 2024, elections will be underway there in the u.s., while putin, of course, hopes he can out last the american and european public. that's why a group of nine nato countries from estonia to the uk, poland and the netherlands are openly advocating equipping ukraine to push russia out of its territory, and speaking to me this morning on a patchy zoom connection, the estonian defense minister warned russia is preparing its own spring offensive. >> we see russia is bringing

more troops, more people to ukraine so they have more people. we see they are bombing a lot more. and obviously they try to resource the ukrainian air defense, and this is why they try to, like prepare everything for the next big attack. >> you know, guys, everyone agrees that one day there will be negotiations. the disagreement is over the road to get there. ukraine thinks german leopard 2 tanks combined with air cover and artillery will help it win back its territory. germany would love to see their tanks alongside american tanks. they are trickier to run, and there are thousands of those german tanks here in europe

already. of course no one knows whether nato weapons will change the dynamic. some think waiting for russia to burn itself out is the best strategy. some deeply pessimistic think sending tanks now, increase the bloodshed. can ukraine win, what does winning look like, and how long does it take? some in western governments warn if president putin is left with ukrainian land, his aggression and nuclear threats will be vindicated with terrible international implications. joe, mika. >> thank you so much, keir simmons, greatly appreciate your report. >> thank you, keir. seems like there's no question here. i mean, if russia is allowed to just take over parts of ukraine, we're back where we were after all of this effort. >> and you're exactly right. ambassador taylor, i guess it seems very simple as a tv news

host to tell the german defense minister and secretary of defense of the united states what to do, but the russians, putin is not going to the negotiating table unless he's on his back heels. he's not going to go from a position of strength. i mean, we understand the dangers when putin thinks this is an existential threat to him, and it's an existential threat to russia. then very bad things happen. but pushing russian troops out of ukrainian territory, that's not an existential threat for russia, and it seems right now we're just not doing quite enough. not sending the right equipment to get the russians in retreat toward their own border. >> joe, they are in retreat

toward their own border right now as they have been for the past several months, and what we saw last week, and what we're seeing today is a coming together, a continued coming together of a nato allies and others, by the way. it's more than just nato who's meeting in ram stein. the international support and the weapons they're providing have been understand precedented and just the americans last week, 500 armored vehicles. the abrams are not there yet. the armored vehicles that the weapons that are going into ukraine from nato allies will enable the ukrainians to push the russians back out of the country. at least back to the area that -- back out of donbas. they will push them out of donbas. crimea is difficult. they have talked also about negotiating. as you said, there are options for peace, and negotiations will come, but when the ukrainians have pushed the russians back

out of the country, out of donbas, then they can sit down and have the conversation. that's the option for peace. >> so mr. ambassador, you're suggesting that the ukrainians already have the equipment that they need or they're getting the equipment soon that they're going to need to push the russians back to where they were before the invasion began? >> i'm suggesting that the commitment from last week and the continued commitments we're seeing even today will give the ukrainians what they need. we need to maintain that support. if we maintain that support, the ukrainians will win. the ukrainians will win this war. they will push russians out of the country, and negotiate the russians out of crimea, and that will be the end of this war. that's how this war ends. that's the option for peace. >> mr. ambassador, let's talk about crimea. you said it will be more difficult. there have been noises from

kyiv. they won't really set down for negotiations until they get crimea back too. how is that divide going to be bridged? if they can get russians out elsewhere, there will be pressure from the rest of the world to settle for peace. >> so jonathan, that's right. what the ukrainians have said, and what they believe, and what i believe is actually the case is that they will never cede any ukrainian territory to the russians, including crimea. they will never give it up. that said, they have also said and the president has said, president zelenskyy has said, the foreign minister has said that part of that is going to happen by pushing them out militarily. that's what we have been talking about, an offensive that the ukrainians can mount this spring to preempt any advance from the russians. that offensive can push the russians out of most of ukrainian territory. crimea, as you say, jonathan, is difficult. while they'll push militarily

out, they'll also use diplomatic means to recover that territory and i suspect that means crimea. >> former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor, thank you. good to see you again. we appreciate your being on this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe," the justice department found more classified items during a search of president biden's delaware home on friday. we'll talk to a spokesperson for the white house counsel's office about that. plus, democratic senator elizabeth warren is our guest this morning. she's out with a new piece criticizing republicans for running what she calls a con game when it comes to the debt ceiling. also ahead, president biden's chief of staff ron klain is expected to step down in the coming weeks. what we're learning this morning about his potential replacement. and a look at the morning papers, including the new effort by republicans in one state to get florida governor ron desantis to run for president.

you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ent. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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election. >> former south carolina governor nikki haley continues to hint at a 2024 presidential run. her candidacy could put her against the only declared candidate so far. that would be donald trump whose administration she served in as u.s. ambassador to the united nations and as for trump, his first rally for his 2024 campaign is coming up this weekend in south carolina. this should be very interesting. his team is having a hard time getting big names in the state to endorse him. as "the washington post" reports, it's because many lawmakers, political operatives and previous supporters are not ready to pick a candidate. two south carolina natives, former governor nikki haley, and republican senator tim scott are both said to be seriously considering a bid, with haley expected to announce her campaign in the coming weeks. another issue for trump's

campaign, he's losing some support within the evangelical community. big surprise. the leader of an influential evangelical group told the post, many had been turned off by recent comments questioning the loyalty. >> recent comments? that he's saying things about you, recent comments? where have you been for six years? you're offended by his recent comments. >> the evangelical community which got hung out to dry by donald trump is now waiting to see who gets into the race before they decide who to back. that is beautiful. >> to quote judy collins, don't you love farce. >> seriously, washington bureau chief for usa today, susan page, and founder of the conservative web site, the bulwark, charlie sykes joins us this morning. >> i think that's fascinating is that obviously two years ago, everybody was afraid to get out and endorse donald trump. but what we're seeing a little

more predictable. a little more traditional. if you have two big political figures from a home state like south carolina, others are going to be afraid to across them to support donald trump. that would have never happened two years ago. but at least for now a little bit of normalcy is returning to just basic power politics in the party. >> well, i'm sure that nikki haley is going to nail down the 2% of the vote in the republican primaries as soon as she gets in the race. i'm not sure what her theory of the case is. you're right, there's good news and bad news. the good news is that donald trump has not cleared the field at all. none of these other republican candidates looked at his announcement and said, okay, we have to stand aside for the orange god king. they did not do that. they obviously think that he is vulnerable. that, i think, is the good news. the bad news is that if there is a crowded field, donald trump

will still have a tremendous edge. donald trump gets this nomination with 30% or 40% of the vote if we have a replay of 2015 and 2016. so it is going to be interesting to see how crowded this field is, and how reluctant any of these candidates are to back out. either to clear the way for donald trump or a non-trump candidate like ron desantis. but, i mean, nikki haley, has anybody been more back and forth on donald trump than nikki haley, she's in, she's out. i'm done with him. i'm sorry, i apologize, not exactly a great resume for someone to say i am a strong and decisive leader. >> so, yes, nikki haley seems to flip-flop on donald trump. you can't really tell where she stands or if she's going to hold her position.

susan page, do you think the evangelical community has finally found religion on donald trump? >> it's possible, but, you know, you could argue that donald trump has given them what they most wanted, which was a supreme court that would overturn roe v. wade. and he will always deserve this their view credit for that, but he was never a natural cultural fit with the evangelical community. ron desantis, mike pence, nikki haley, all of them are kind of a more natural fit in terms of their, you know, lifestyle and life views and culture, so we'll see. the evangelicals, i think, can argue that it's a new day because they got the thing they had worked for for decades, and they have that in their pocket now. >> this is true. >> it's interesting again. trump lost in '17. trump republicans lost in '17, '18, '19, '20 and '22.

by the end of joe biden's first term he'll have appointed more federal judges than any other president in u.s. history. >> it's short lived is what you're saying. >> evangelicals are going to be looking at that and saying do we really want eight years of democratically appointed federal judges because if we get donald trump, we're going to completely lose the court. >> right. and the pendulum, you go to extremes, then it just keeps swinging back and forth on elections. charlie and susan stay with us. up next, we want to show the viewers how donald trump conducted himself at a funeral of one of his supporters over the weekend. >> jonathan lemire, is it still -- can you still say that something that donald trump did was bizarre or is that just -- are you just repeating yourself there? that funeral we're going to talk about in a second, man, that was whacked out, right? >> we could use whacked out

which was not on my bingo card, i don't know that we can say we were shocked by his behavior. i think it's the first time we have seen it at a funeral. it's a new setting. >> making a woman's tragic death about himself, it's just unbelievable. >> not unbelievable from him. >> yeah. also ahead, gop hard liners in the house are making things difficult for republicans in swing districts ahead of the 2024 election. and the republicans in those swing districts are making it hard on the hard liners. we've got a gop war. >> this should be interesting. >> over immigration where the hard liners thought they were going to have their way, not so fast. >> we'll get a live report from capitol hill. plus the latest on the unrest in atlanta. demonstrations turning violent over the weekend in the wake of the death of an activist killed by police last week after officials said the person shot a georgia state trooper. "morning joe" will be right back. e trooper. "morning joe" will be right back ♪ this feels so right... ♪

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48 past the hour. former president trump spoke at a memorial service for lynette hardway on saturday. hardway was better known as diamond from the popular pro trump conservative duo, diamond and silk. at one point in his remarks, trump claimed he didn't know silk at all, despite her saying in her introduction of him how great trump treated them both. >> president trump, i just want to say thank you so much for believing in diamond and silk. he treated us just like the other children, eric, don jr., tiffany, he treated us just like -- when we came around, when diamond and silk came around, it was like we was part of the family.

>> you know, the world has lost one of its brightest stars, a real star, but i see that we have another star who is equal to but she stepped up. i'm serious. i thought i knew them both. i didn't. i knew diamond. i didn't know silk at all. i just learned about silk. you're fantastic. >> how does he say that? that's just not even -- >> he was very -- >> that's just not even true. that's not close to being true. he complained. he started complaining. >> how terribly, terribly rude. >> this memorial service into a campaign speech, railing against democrats and promoting the big lie, and complaining that he was just there way too long. >> how do you have open borders when millions of people are being let into our country, and taking so much away from our country, so hard to fix that.

we can fix inflation. we can fix so much of what's been damaged over the last two years. they allowed their prisms to be emptied out into the united states of america. they allowed their mental institutions to be emptied out. >> inflation was caused by energy. they stopped the energy, and all of a sudden your gasoline went from 1.87 a gallon -- >> he also complained about how long the funeral was. he was only supposed to be there for 15 minutes, but it lasted so much longer that he was stuck there. >> and he was talking, himself, a very very long time. so charlie, i don't know where to begin. >> republican presidential candidate. >> just beyond bizarre, beyond rude, beyond anything that anyone would see in normal, polite, let me say decent society, and this is a guy that

a lot of people want to be the next president of the united states again. >> again. and so on brand for him, too. look, this is what happens when you have a narcissistic sociopath has to give a homily at a funeral. it won't go well. donald trump has one subject. he has only one thing that he wants to talk about. >> won't go well. >> and the crass indifference is just so burned in that he's not even aware of the fact that he, you know, is talking about other people that he had never met silk. of course it's rude. this is donald trump. and he's not going to change. but to your point, i continue to be amazed as you are. that's the interesting thing. i always try to imagine the people who are watching this and going, yes, i want that man to be a role model for my children. i want that man to be a symbol for america. i want that man to have his

finger on a nuclear button again. this has baffled me for six years. what is interesting as we get closer to 2024, trump's behavior is if anything more erratic, remember, joe, that there were people, you know, who talked themselves into believing, if he becomes president, he'll become more normal. he'll grow into the job. it's exactly the opposite, and it appears to be accelerating, but again, as shocking as it is, no one should be surprised that donald trump goes to somebody's funeral, says he doesn't know the closest friend and talks about himself the whole time, well, because he's donald trump. >> susan page, i don't know about you, but i've never been to a wake or a funeral service where someone begins by asking me if i can believe what the cost of gas is at the gas station. the thing that's interesting and charlie just referenced it is after all of this time, and all

of this verbose we got from this man, there are people in the united states of america who would look at that and be surprised by his behavior. that's incredible to me. >> you know, as charlie just said, donald trump has not changed. the donald trump today is not -- is saying the things that make our jaws drop just as he did starting in 2015, and the question i think is whether the audience has changed, the audience that has supported him and who elected him president one time, and voted for him and the millions a second time. do they perceive this differently, are they tired of it, is there trump fatigue, and will they embrace some of the alternatives who are so eager to challenge him in these primaries? i actually think we don't really know that. there are definitely sign that is -- signs that a lot of republicans would like to have trump policies without the person. we're going to have to, i think, go to the primaries to find out

the degree to which that is cut . >> i it won't an event this weekend, mika, you were at it, too, at a very well educated, very well connected guy, said i like trump's policies. i'll vote for him again, even though, you know, he's a little crazy at times, and i'm thinking, at times. >> at times? >> he led an insurrection against the united states government and you like his position on quantitative easing. it's just bizarre, but they're all out there. >> baffling. >> and the thing is, they're not tired of donald trump's behavior. they're not exhausted by donald trump's behavior. they're only worried that donald trump may lose because i don't know if you know it or not, donald trump lost in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2022, and they don't want him to lose in 2024. so they don't mind him insulting

somebody at a wake and turning e a wake into a list of grievances for a triggered snowflakes, they care about winning, and he can't win. he just keeps losing general elections. i think that's the only thing that exhausts him. >> susan page and charlie sykes, thank you both very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> we appreciate it. and still ahead, a live report from southern california where investigators are digging into the life of the gunman responsible for the mass shooting that left ten dead in monterey park. we'll be right back. monterey park. we'll be right back. productsm with floodlight, with intelligent alerts when a person or familiar face is detected. sam. sophie's not here tonight. so you have a home with no worries. brought to you by adt.

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it is the top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, january 23rd.

in just a moment, we'll get a live report from monterey park, california, from the deadly mass shooting that came as the community was celebrating the lunar new year. also ahead, we'll explain what led up to a chaotic scene in downtown atlanta over the weekend. plus, the war inside the gop over immigration which has house republicans taking on some of the party's hard liners. and we'll start, though, with that shooting in california. authorities say they have identified the suspect wanted in the mass shooting in southern california over the weekend. after the alleged gunman was found dead from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. the 72-year-old is accused of killing ten people and injuring ten others at a dance hall saturday night in monterey park where people were celebrating the lunar new year. about 20 to 30 minutes after the first attack, police say the gunman entered a ballroom in the nearby city of alhambra. the two people wrestled the

weapon away from him there. so the 26-year-old man whose family ran the dance hall in alhambra that officials said appeared to be the gunman's next target tells the "new york times" about that encounter with the suspect. brandon say says he was in the office off the lobby watching the ballroom when he heard the front door swing closed and turned to see a semiautomatic assault pistol pointed at him. he was looking around, not hiding but trying to do harm. his eyes were menacing, he tells the paper he struggled with the gunman, and eventually disarmed him. the family says the incident was captured on security camera footage. according to the times, they fought over control of the gun for about a minute and a half. and it felt like they were similarly matched in strength, mr. say said. at one point, the gunman looked down at the weapon and took one hand off it as if to manipulate

the gun to begin shooting. mr. say said he seized the moment and pried the pistol away from the man. he pointed the weapon back at him and yelled go, get the hell out of here, he recalled. let's go live once again to monterey park, california, nbc news correspondent kathy park is there with the latest. kathy? >> reporter: mika, good morning to you. monterey park hosts perhaps one of the largest new year's celebrations in southern california but it has now been marred by tragedy. you can see behind me there is a growing memorial outside of the dance hall where the shooting took place. it happened roughly around 10:30 on saturday night. we're told that the gunman entered this building, began shooting indiscriminately, killed ten, injured ten others, and went to the second location just a few minutes away in alhambra, california, he was able to get into another dance hall, but two community members

were able to wrestle the weapon from the suspect. however, the suspect did plea, and there was an hour's long man hunt. it ended in torrance, california, a third location, about 30 minutes from where we are at monterey park. they were able to confront the suspect inside a white cargo van, and when they were able to breach the vehicle, they were able to find the suspect dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound. here's a little bit more from the sheriff on what may have possibly motivated this individual to carry out this deadly attack. >> you've been asking me about motive. we still are not clear on the motive. the investigation continues, and that is something we are all extremely -- we want to know. we want to know how something like this, something this awful can happen. >> reporter: and, mika, the suspect has been identified as 72-year-old huu can tran.

we still don't have a lot of information on this individual. going back to the victims, though, ten dead. five men, five women. ten are also among those who were injured. at last check we know that seven individuals are still hospitalized, and we are told that these are older victims. they're at least 50 years old and beyond. mika. >> nbc news correspondent, kathy park. thank you very much for that live report. the mass shooting in monterey park, california, over the weekend is the deadliest in the united states since the massacre in uvalde, texas, last may when 19 children and two teachers were killed. there have been at least 33 mass shootings in the u.s. so far this year, and it's only january. that's according to the gun violence archive which defines a mass shooting as at least four people injured or killed by a gun. by that calculation, there were

648 mass shootings in this country last year. and even though that was down just slightly from 2021, that's nearly double the number recorded five years ago, when there were 336. and according to pew research, gun murders in particular have climbed sharply in three years. the 19,384 gun murders that took place in 2020 were the most since at least 1968, exceeding the previous peak in 1993. the 2020 total represented a 34% increase from the year before. a 49% increase over five years, and a 75% increase over ten years. major metropolitan areas also saw increases in murders last year. for example, in 2022, washington, d.c. recorded back-to-back years with 200 murders. for the first time in nearly 20 years.

>> and those have actually been going up the past couple of weeks. >> yeah. >> just murders by guns. >> indiscriminate all over the place. >> all over the city. >> so scary. >> so it's unbelievable that -- and we were talking about this last hour -- since sandy hook, which was supposed to be a wake up call for all of us. since sandy hook, you have had murders by guns going up 75% in 2020 over -- when sandy hook happened, we're ten years beyond sandy hook, so gun murders up 75% over the past decade. even over the past five years, up about 50%. according to pew and these numbers, that is an epidemic of not only gun violence, but gun murders, and if you want to put this into perspective, think

about all the u.s. troops that were killed in iraq over a seven-year war in iraq. it was absolutely horrible, what a tragedy, over seven years over 4,000 americans died fighting a war in iraq. in 2020, in the united states, nearly five times as many americans died at home by gunfire, in this country, were killed. were murdered. in america. in 2020. almost five times as many as americans who died in the entire iraq war. that tells you the scope of this pandemic. >> and the political extremes in washington don't allow for significant action on this. >> no. >> the pendulum keeps swinging. they may get judges, but those will go away, and they won't get the type of legislative action that the american people agree on as it pertains to guns.

>> when you say the american people, you know, since we're talking about sandy hook, since sandy hook, about 9 in 10 americans, almost 90% of americans, maybe a little less, maybe a little more depending on what poll you look at support universal background checks. 90%. and congress can't get it done. that is really dysfunctional. it's really screwed up. especially when, again, over the last ten years, murders by guns have gone up 75%. >> we want to take a look at news out of atlanta where atlanta's busy downtown descended into chaos over the weekend. >> hundreds of protesters marched in the streets in the wake of the death of a 26-year-old environmental activist. the activist was killed on wednesday as officers cleared protesters from the site of a

planned police training center. police claim the activist shot a state trooper. now there are calls for an independent investigation. the saturday demonstration turned violent at night when a small group of protesters broke windows and damaged buildings downtown. a police car was also set on fire. atlanta police say six people were arrested. >> also explosives reportedly brought in there. let's bring in political reporter for the "atlanta journal-constitution" greg bluestein. some chaos in downtown atlanta. >> what's going on? >> looks like the atlanta cops moved quickly on it. you say this has posed a problem for atlanta's political leaders, despite the fact you had a mayor who was going to find out who the instigators were and bring them to justice. >> this is a problem for atlanta mayor andre dickins who promised to crack down on crime when he was elected in 2021, and one of

the missions to stop from splitting atlanta into two cities. that patience is not boundless. his concern is showing that he has a steady hand, that he can crack down on violent crime, and continue to keep atlanta a safe place. >> greg, what is the route of the story about the environmental activist shooting a state trooper? >> there's a lot of questions from law enforcement and from reporters trying to track the bounds of the story right now, but some of the supporters of the protest movement question the narrative and are calling for an independent examination of what happened over the weekend. the state bureau of investigation says there's no body cam footage of the gunfire authorities say that was exchanged between the state trooper and activist. there's a lot of questions remaining. what the city and authorities say is most of these activists, most of the protesters came from

out of state. a few are from georgia, but they're blaming out of state activists for a lot of this violence. >> set the scene, if you will, give us the backdrop, what is the relationship right now between the police in atlanta and the community. some cities things are tense, what about in atlanta, and did that lead to some of what we saw over the weekend? >> it can be really testy. there were comparisons drawn between 2020 and now with the black lives matter protest and movement in the city, but at the same time, just as i just mentioned, city officials say that a lot of these protests, a lot of activists did not come from the city of atlanta. the mayor has supported the public safety center. a lot of city leaders around metro atlanta. a lot of civic organizations supported the public safety center. this distrust of law enforcement is at the root of the opposition of the public safety training center that has caused so much

backlash. >> political reporter for the "atlanta journal-constitution" greg bluestein, thank you very much. >> thank you, greg. more classified documents were discovered at president joe biden's delaware home last week. in a statement on saturday, the president's personal attorney revealed that fbi agents spent more than 13 hours at the biden's wilmington residency on friday, and their search turned up quote six items consisting of documents with classification markings, like the documents previously found, biden's legal team says the newly discovered files were from his time as vice president, but his attorney also says the new batch included some documents from biden's time in the senate, where he served from 1973 to 2009. a biden administration official and a separate source familiar with the matter tells nbc news that the latest search was prompted by the white house, not the department of justice. it's unclear if the new documents were found in the same

location as previously unearthed files, which were discovered in a room adjacent to biden's garage. >> so, again, let's go ahead and say what we always say, much different than the trump documents where they had to go in and they had to fight them, negotiate with, finally get in, trump lied, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, george conway put it this way, kind of funny, i don't understand why the biden people are voluntarily giving access to investigators instead of stone walling and lying and screaming witch hunt, and calling the investigators gestapo and bringing frivolous lawsuits against them, and let me add also, making sure they leak the names of the people that did the investigations to put their lives at risk and make them targets of abuse. >> we're going to have ian sams from the white house to talk more about this. it clearly looks like joe biden said you know what, i'm going to have everybody go through everything that i have, and make

sure there's no more questions. he was in the senate for decades. i'm not making excuses, this is not good -- >> i have to say, jonathan lemire, yeah, it's complete different. completely different. from the trump document case, and we can list all the ways. at the same time, come on, man. senate documents, are you kidding me? senate documents. and they keep finding documents, like, this is, you know, because you're not supposed to take classified documents out of buildings as we said repeatedly on this program. it just keeps going. they're going to open up a bathroom and find it's wall papered with classified documents. come on, man, how much longer is this drip, drip, and one thing, i would say up to this point the

same thing, it's going to be political fallout. there's not going to be legal fallout. i do, though, start wondering what dick durbin, the head of the judiciary committee knows. when dick durbin starts talking about how serious this is, and how diminished joe biden is by what has been discovered. does that suggest, jonathan lemire, do we have this clip? >> let's play dick durbin's sound bite. >> we have senior democratic senators, allies of joe biden actually speaking out, take a listen. >> to think that any of them ended up in boxes in storage one place or the other is just unacceptable but having said that, let me make this point clear, joe biden has said from the start, we are going to be totally transparent about this. let the chips fall where they may. i'm going to open my home voluntarily to a search. >> it's unbelievable how it

happened, who's at fault, with that being said, putting it in a political kangaroo court is not going to help. >> he said it was unacceptable at the top, but again, i agree with the gentlemen. this drip, drip, drip, it just keeps going. >> this is more of a political problem than a legal one. that's established. one more thing, when federal agents searched mar-a-lago, they did so with a search warrant because the trump folks would not give them access. that's very different here in wilmington. that said, this has now been twice in a week, twice, where the white house says the search is complete, there are no more documents. and after each time, more documents turned up. that's not a good look, and there's real frustration from democrats about how this is handled. it's one thing for joe manchin who does break with the president from time to time, and is sort of playing to his constituency in west virginia at moments. dick durbin is another story. he used the word embarrassed. he said the president should be

embarrassed as to what is happening right here. and i think there's a lot of democrats who start to feel that as well, that they can't get their arms around this story because they don't know when it ends because it feels like every day or every few days, they turn up a handful of more documents. now, the big question is, what are the contents of the documents, the ones from the senate, they are dated. there are questions how it got to the home, and the odds are not material that would be particularly damaging, so that's going to be still to be discovered in the weeks ahead. certainly, joe, this is giving more ammo to the republicans who have control of the house, who have these investigations, ho already had a laundry list of things they wanted to go tochlt, and now classified documents at the top of the list. it's going to get messy for the white house. >> mike, dick durbin who has known joe biden for a long typically, a great political ally of his says, quote, the

document controversy leaves him diminished and the president should be embarrassed. what is this, mike? how do we keep finding documents now, even from biden's senate days? >> i think the president is embarrassed. that is an almost certainty, given the president of the united states, and given how he reacts to things like that. look, these things were packed up in 2016, late 2016. the stuff from the senate, more likely than not, not even be classified today, i would bet. we're not going to get to the bottom of this until there's much more information on exactly how many pieces of classified information are we talking about. what are the dates of the classified information, what's within the classified information. what do they have to do with, and we're not going to find that out until there's a full release, and full information given to us, and they're going to have to do that. jonathan just pointed out, this is not going to be a legal

issue. that's almost guaranteed. it's going to be a huge political issue, an ongoing political issue. fuel for the fire in the various committees investigating things like this. >> but let's be clear, jonathan lemire, this is not hunter biden's laptop, it's not one of those issues where republicans sit, this is not the twitter wars, right, the twitter documents, the twitter files, this is not some sort of asteric issue that republicans are talking about. there's a reason dick durbin is saying what dick durbin is saying, he has seen classified documents too. chances are good they probably haven't made it to his illinois home as is the case with most members of congress. durbin is sitting there, i know he is, sitting there going, are

you kidding me, how hard is it to keep this stuch keep this st home. >> they're usually viewed in a skiff inside senate offices. there's a lot of nonsense the republicans are throwing against the wall as they launch the investigations but classified documents should be handled appropriately no matter which party you belong to. these documents ended up where they shouldn't have been. again, the biden team is handling it very differently than the trump team d once the discoveries were made. we can't underscore that enough. that's why it will be legal peril for one and not another. there are national security issues when it comes to classified materials. we'll learn more about the contents going forward. you're hearing from democrats, a really good ally like durbin saying enough is enough. we got to get to the bottom of this. >> and i think that's refreshing and the right thing, and i'm

sure joe biden agrees with some of what dick durbin has to say, especially in the state of american politics today, i think he has a long way to go before he's diminished compared to the republicans. a little bit of a harsh word, having said that, the democrats are defining themselves as honest, as honest about the difference between right and wrong while republicans will literally drive forward over anything as from ranging from immoral stormy daniels to criminal possibly january 6th? they will defend anything. and go to certain media entities and you'll get the same thing. you'll get all, you know, glossed over stories about donald trump, but hunter biden, hunter biden, all these crazy stories about democrats, here, you look at it truthfully. it's not good. >> you look at it both sides, there's a reason, why, you know. >> and top officials at the white house told me they could not have imagined this happening, and they're

horrified. bad. >> there's a reason why mika and i don't get invited to birthday parties of george w. bush or barack obama, or, you know, donald trump, you know, because you go after both sides. you go after both sides. >> a long way to diminishing. >> i have to finish with one final thing, mike, and i think this is important to say, because, again, you know, i don't know if you know or not. i was in congress at one point. >> oh, god. >> really? >> ding. >> people are saying, oh, no, he's not going to talk act that. i could talk about being a baseball player for sure, but it mig help to know, as a member of the armed services committee, i was put on the committee four times across terms, and the briefings i got on north korea, iran, china, back i '96, '97, '98, '99, i don't repeat those

briefings. and as far as a classified document, if somebody tried to hand me a classified document, i'd put my hands up in the air and let it drop on the floor. you are taught -- >> we don't know what -- >> you are taught, no, no, this is a cultural thing. it just is. you are taught to treat classified documents in a certain way, and so that's why durbin is responding the way durbin is responding. and why a lot of people are shocked by it, and you're just going like this. >> no, no, no, it's just as bad. >> i agree. >> it's just as bad if a democrat is doing it as a republican is doing it. now, listen, you look to intent and the intent for donald trump obviously far worse. with joe biden, based on what we know it was just sloppy, but man, it was sloppy with america's classified

information. i you don't understand it, and that's probably why dick durbin was saying what dick durbin was saying. 25 years ago, 24 years ago, i'm still not saying anything about classified briefings i got just because. you don't take a chance. >> you know who knows that better than anyone. joe biden. >> it doesn't seem that way, mike. why are there so many classified documents? why are there classified documents in his garage? why are there classified documents in his home? >> it's incredibly sloppy, it's unforgivable in a certain sense. i do not believe he's been diminished by this. he's been deeply embarrassed by this. we don't know who packed those boxes. you know what it is. >> mike, can i ask you this, why don't we know that? he needs to come out because you and i both have known joe biden for a long time.

joe biden speaking for myself, he's a good man. i don't think he's done this with malevolent intent. doesn't he need to get out and say i'm totally embarrassed. i'm embarrassed by what happened here, i'm embarrassed by the way things were packed up. i'm embarrassed by stuff that was brought here or there. i didn't know about it. it's ultimately my responsibility obviously. but i didn't know about it. i'm really embarrassed. shouldn't he get out and do that because again, this is not about legal. this is about political things. this is about telling democrats. forget the republicans are going to attack him no matter what. this is telling the dick durbins, this is what happened, this is how it happened, i'm very sorry, wow and embarrassed. >> there's no doubt that a fuller explanation from the president of the united states would go a long way to short stopping this thing, but all of us this morning know one thing

for certain, it's not going to go away. it's a story the media is going to keep pulling the string on the story, and the larger issue is going to be what the republicans do in the house of representatives. they will continue this story for months and months and months, and here's the problem with our culture, our political culture today, if the president of the united states got on tv and did exactly what you suggested, joe, which is not wrong, he should do something like that, every explanation today, not just from him but most people, every explanation is immediately rewritten as an excuse by certain people in the media and by certainly the republicans in the house of representatives. they will turn a legitimate explanation into an excuse in the snap of a finger. >> what's great is all of your questions that you were just shouting out will be answered. >> shouted out. >> we're going to be speaking to ian sense from the white house, and i'll be very interested to hear the answers.

>> right. right. and the only thing i would say, mike, what have we found over the past five, six, seven, eight years, what those pro trump media outlets say doesn't matter. what they say doesn't matter because they keep losing elections. republicans keep losing elections. what these house republicans are saying doesn't matter. they're having infighting that we're going to talk about here. they can't pass an immigration bill. they can hardly elect a speaker. >> joe biden needs to speak to the center of the country that keeps electing him, and keeps electing democrats. i think that's what he needs to do, and he just needs to explain it. but you talk about pulling the thread. they can't really keep pulling the thread until we stop discovering documents. >> i can honestly tell you they're trying to make sure. >> they have got to have a complete, i mean, are there any other hopes? where else can these documents

be? >> okay. we're going to have the questions answered. i hope i don't get nonanswer s. >> have they checked the house in nantucket. still ahead on "morning joe," it appears speaker mccarthy, is he still speaker? >> for this week. >> he may be using committee seats to reward some republicans and punish certain democrats. of course he is. congressman adam schiff joins us amid reports he may be denied a seat on the intelligence committee. new polling is taking a look at what new york voters think about republican congressman george santos, and whether he should resign. we'll dig into those numbers. also this morning, richard haass joins us with the new book that envisions a new way of looking at american democracy and citizenship. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. hip. you're watching "morning j."oe we'll be right back.

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mika, i have breaking news for you. this is a shock here. >> okay. at 33 past the hour, welcome back. >> we had to go to truth social to find out that donald j. trump just won another tournament at his own golf club. >> he cheats. >> they let him win tournaments. >> i've seen it in my real life. >> trump international golf club, one of the best courses in the country said they obviously let him win there. and he said the reason that i announced this fabulous truth is it serves as a physical exam. you need strength and stamina to win, and donald trump says i have strength and stamina. . >> i can just tell you, you go to his golf course in bedminster, fake water falls and a cheating donald, that's what you get. >> there you go. we turn to capitol hill where moderate republicans are taking a stand against the party's hard right members. moderate republicans in the house delayed an attempt by members of their own party to bring a border security bill to

the floor. "the washington post" reports the block delay not only a pledge, speaker kevin mccarthy made to a handful of lawmakers but also quote the fulfillment of a key campaign promise to a republican base eager for tougher immigration laws. the paper continues, the scope of the three-page bill has rattled dozens of house republicans, many of whom worry it would prevent migrants and unaccompanied children fleeing violence from seeking asylum in the u.s. a traditionally protected tenet. tony gonzalez told the post, we can't allow the republican party to be hi jacked, referencing his colleagues pushing the legislation, trying to ban legitimate asylum claims, one, it's not christian, and, two, to me, it's very anti-american. a lot is at stake.

the backlash has exposed the deep divisions over border security that continue plague the party, even though republicans across the spectrum have sharply criticized the biden administration's approach to the issue. >> let's bring in nbc news senior political reporter sahil kapur live on capitol hill. he has new reporting this morning on house republicans in swing districts, facing political dangers, as hard liners reflect their power. i think one of the more, what i will call humorous chapters, a sort of dark humor, when they land the white house, the senate and the house in '17 and '18, donald trump talked about wanting a wall, and even conservatives like lindsey graham and john cornyn said, no, we're not going to build a wall. that won't work, and so you always have these republicans, they talk a tough game. they never follow through, and now in the house, you've got people like congresswoman nancy

mace mocking hard liners saying a border security will never work, it will never pass the house. won't pass the senate, and it won't fix immigration. here we are, kevin mccarthy has the speaker's gavel, is he going to be able to pass anything significant? >> reporter: that's one of the big questions over the next two years, joe, is house speaker mccarthy governs with this narrow majority. the race for the majority in 2024, which to a large extent is going to be a referendum on whether voters like the way the narrow majority is governing. so far we have seen hard liners in the house republican caucus steering the ship, exerting an unusual degree of influence, we saw that with the speaker vote, the rules package with the concessions. they have landed plum committee assignments for themselves. we saw the recent antiabortion vote that true objections from moderate members like nancy mace, and democrats are trying to capitalize on all of this. they have identified, i'm told,

25 republican house districts to target in the next year. that includes 18 that president biden carried in the 2020 election, and this is the dilemma for those republicans in those competitive districts. they have to balance the desires of republicans including staunch republican voters in their districts or they get primaried with the need to appeal to independence, and show they are serious about governing with a democratic controlled senate and president biden in the white house. one former republican aid, ken spain, a former spokesperson for the house campaign arm told me quote, this is going to be the tight rope that republicans have to walk for the next two years. the road to holding the majority, he says in 2024 is through biden health congressional seats. republicans are going to have to at some point, offer an agenda that resonates out of deep red country. he goes on to say if you can't win independent voters, you can't win elections unquote. that's simply put. it's an important point here. one former republican congressman i spoke to, leonard

lance of new jersey, a moderate, said republicans need to be willing to respond to the right wing hard liners in kind. use their own power, form blocks, coalitions, go to kevin mccarthy, he says, quote, go to leadership, and say we have strength as well or we will vote with democrats on sensible matters, not extravagant spending but common sense matters. lance is suggesting that republicans in competitive districts like tony gonzalez seems to be doing on immigration, goes to leadership, and says we don't have votes to pass far right legislation. and who's at the top of the ticket, that's going to have a huge impact on, you know, who wins the house majority, and lance, who lost his seat in the 2018 blue wave said if donald trump is the nominee, again, he worries that republicans may not have a chance of holding this majority no matter what the swing district republicans do. joe, mika. >> nbc sahil kapur, thank you so much for your reporting. when you see immigration bills coming, like we're going to just

do border security and nothing else, we're not going to talk about what actually, what small business owners need, what business owners need, what entrepreneurs need, what this economy needs, if you're just talking about one side of it, as nancy said, you're never going to pass that, right? and they know that. they know it will never pass the senate. they know the president will never sign it. for good reason. and so here we are again. the republicans are finally given one house to play with. and what are they doing? they're doing gesturing. instead of governing. >> yeah. >> tony gonzalez said it. we can't let the party be hijacked. he's a republican. he wants to do a good job. these people are extreme. they're crazy. you can call them crazies. >> idealogically, perhaps they are to the far trump right of where the independent voters and

swing voters and the other voters, the former republican voters, who made them lose in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022. and now they're lining up to lose in 2024 if they can't start appealing more to the middle than the extremes in their districts where a lot of these guys are winning with 78% of the vote. coming up at the top of the next hour, senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts will be our guest this morning. we have a lot to cover with her straight ahead on "morning joe." straight ahead on "morni jngoe." before treating your chronic migraine— 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more you're not the only one with questions about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start—with about 10 minutes of treatment once every 3 months. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you, and if a sample is available. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms.

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on foreign relation, richard haass, the author of "the bill of obligations, the ten habits of good citizens" thank god one of them is not being a new york giants fan. all right, richard, let me admit. i thought this was going to be a good game, just like you, just like willie geist, just like a lot of us, but man, the eagles, so dominant. >> yeah, that's one side of the coin. the other thing is a giants fan, you and i were texting during the game, the giants did show. their tank was empty by the time this game came. >> yeah, well, giants are heading in the right direction. >> they are. >> heading in the right direction, and with this book, we're going to ask, how can america head in the right direction. >> so you would think, yes, you're good at the segue. >> i have done this before. >> you're very good at the segue. so richard, honestly, the book seems not like a book that a

foreign policy guy would write. tell us why you took this on? >> mika, like you all, i talk a lot. after every talk i give and the questions start invariably, the first question is what keeps you up at night, what's the biggest challenge, is it china, russia, and increasingly the answer i started giving was, no, it's us, and the answer is, if, you know, we have learned historically, we can deal with just about any external challenge. we did well the last i checked during world war ii and the cold war. we also were fairly united and if we're not united, if we don't have the band width to deal with these issues, we're potentially overwhelmed, so i said if that's your answer to the question then the time has come to write that book. >> so, richard, i remain optimistic about where america is. i think by a lot of measuring sticks, we're doing really well. poverty down to 60 year lows. teen pregnancy, 75 year lows. the dollar strong against other currencies. our military, relative to the

rest of the world, stronger than ever before. but at the same time, there is this concern internally that we've gotten ourselves to a point where we're more divided than we need to be. how did we get to this point? >> it's really an interesting question, you're right. there's a big literature about what's called sorting that increasingly rather than being part of a larger society, we're all living in our mini societies. it might be defined by what social media site we find, the church we go to, geography matters a lot. there's not as much mobility as there used to be, what cable station we watch. but increasingly americans have separate experiences. we don't have things we used to have, say the draft, where a lot of americans from different classes and geographies would come together and have some shared experience, so, you know, i think that has a lot to do with it. our political system, the way we run our primaries, the way we fund our politics, joe, you don't need me to explain that to

you. in many cases doesn't elect people, to put it bluntly, who are prepared to put country first. we don't teach civics in our schools. i don't think there's an understanding of the value of american democracy and what it takes to work. there's not a single factor, which also means we'll get to it, there's not a single solution, but there's lots of things that account to how we got to where we are. >> you know, one of the ten habits that you're trying to encourage with this book is to remain civil. so my question to you is i don't recall another era, another time in my lifetime and in your lifetime where you will hesitate about going to dinner with certain people, if they are of an imposing political viewpoint that you know of because it will not be civil. when did this become so out of control? >> yeah, it's habit. you know, the old thing, it's okay to disagree, don't be disagreeable, somewhere along the way we seem to have lost

that. i'm not sure. parents aren't doing certain things. schools aren't doing certain things. religious authorities have abdicated certain spots. policy positions, you're going to have them. we have to have conversations based on facts, one, we have to be civil, we have to learn how to disagree. if everything becomes all or nothing, we're going to end up with nothing, and that's increasingly what's happening in our politics. i can't exactly say why it's happened. i think we know how we have to get it back. for example, in classrooms, why don't we have more debates, teach young people how to win a debate and lose a debate. that might be a good training for a young person. >> and i have offended half of audience watching "morning joe." let me defend the other half. >> great. >> great former coach tony dungy. he went to the pro-life march in

washington. columns comparing everybody there to qanon to truthers to january 6 types. no. tony dungy, he's talked about his beliefs and faith. he is pro-life. 40% of americans according to the latest gallup poll are pro-life. do we push him to the side or let a guy have his own beliefs that 40% of americans have and still be on tv without catching a lot of crap because he decides he wants to go to a march? >> that's true of almost all the issues. he feels strongly about that. take the issue you began the show with this morning. those that feel the second amendment means no restrictions

on the right to acquire a gun. others say i have a right to public safety. it is not just about civility. we have to get people who feel strongly to get involved and informed. groups like the nra have clout. they are involved in political process. those that feel strongly need to get involved. joe, politicians aren't always responsible but responsive. if there's pressure we see differences. the midterms, more than half the eligible voters in this country didn't vote for whatever reason. more than half of the americans that could have voted didn't tells me something. they could advocate for the

political position they think is right. >> the book deals with being a good citizen of a democracy. we talk about how the democracy has been more under threat than any time since the civil war. you are a foreign policy guy. as you see other governments, does that make you more convinced that democracy is the way to go and has to be how we do this? >> absolutely. authoritarian governments make big mistakes. once they make a decision they get locked in. how can a leader admit they are wrong? we have tremendous innate advantages. it means getting people involved and correcting the mistakes, teaching about the democracy. joe is an optimist. americans can be counted on to do the right thing but only

after they tried everything else. what january 6 taught me is we shouldn't be as sanguine as we were. we have come through in the past. i like to believe we come through in the future. i don't think it's automatic. good things don't automatically happen. it won't just happen if we're passive or inactive. >> to the point i'm not hopeful as you know and not as optimistic as you but on friday i had drinks with a 24-year-old woman. she was working and asking for advice. nothing to do the media or washington until january 6. >> right. >> she said to me, i did not realize how patriotic i was

until i saw what happened and i changed the trajectory and went to work in washington. >> right. >> she works on capitol hill. i thought, that is incredible. we need the young people to care. >> we have seen that, richard, post-january 6. we also saw during the low points in the trump presidency young people deciding to go to law school. i heard that from law school deans and admission directors. especially with younger people there's a need to get involved and make a difference. first, you say we have to admit when we make mistakes. well, let's just say talking about tony dungy it was incomplete. i had read tweets about how he was attacked for going to the

march. tony dungy apologizes after spreading debunked anti-transgender. there's multiple stories about him so let me put that out there. not something to encourage at all. the second thing is you had quoted churchill saying that americans can be counted on to do the right thing after they exhausted the possibilities. maybe he also said that the form of government is the worst other than every other form of government no ento mankind. >> that's right. >> that's why i'm optimistic. i see what happened in 2020 and i think a most beautiful thing in american democracy in my lifetime is the fact that madisonian democracy was saved

by black women in atlanta, georgia, black women in milwaukee, wisconsin, black women in detroit, michigan, black women in philadelphia, pennsylvania. the very people who would have the biggest reason to give up on our government were the women who said, stand aside. >> okay. i'm going to cry now. >> hold my beer. >> yeah. >> it is time to save this democracy. i believe, i believe that's exactly what they did in 2020. >> democracy was also saved with secretaries of state in pennsylvania who stood up to all sorts of pressure. >> colorado. >> that's when's so interesting about it. that's what it takes. i think jim madison said rosa parks, the idea she sat on a seat at the front of the bus is someone who's changing american democracy. you are right.

this is a system that over two and a half centuries demonstrated the ability to change. that's why we are still here. how would i put it? american democracy is not saved from above. we won't get a leader to do it for us. it is from individuals, teachers, parents, religious leaders, people doing the sermons. a bottom up approach and essentially why i wrote this. i'm worried about the position in the world and allies say how can we depend on a country that's so unpredictable? that looks so unattractive? we have got to fix it. we can fix it. we have been around two and a half centuries. the challenge is to continue to adapt to be around for another two and a half. >> the new book is "the bill of obligations." thank you very much.

this is just start of a weeklong book residency and digging into more of the book's important themes this week. thank you. >> showing more clips from the eagles-giants -- >> no. coming up, we'll go live coming up on "morning joe" to monterrey park as police work to determine a motive in a mass shooting. plus, joined by congresswoman judy chu whose california district includes that grieving community. also ahead, democratic senator elizabeth warren is our guest. we are back in two minutes. th? this is jabra enhance select. it's a smart hearing solution that makes hearing aids more convenient and less expensive. it connects with your phone so you can stream calls and music. with jabra enhance select, better hearing doesn't have to start in a doctor's office. it starts with a free online hearing test

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island ferry for insurance money. >> "saturday night live's" take on the fight. senator warren is standing by with thoughts on the debt ceiling debate. she has a new piece in "the boston globe" on what she calls a con job by republicans. plus, the latest on the monterrey park gunman's background. the massive shooting left ten dead, ten injured. some of donald trump's strange speech in the middle of a memorial service. >> crazy. welcome back to "morning joe." third hour. >> is that all? >> jonathan and mike still with us -- i don't know if mike is. >> he is. >> mike didn't leave. that's good. we have the host of "the last

word" on msnbc. >> this is huge! >> lawrence o'donnell. >> the perfect person to have here today. >> good morning, joe. good morning. >> good morning, joe. >> lawrence, i was going on a -- well, my wife said i'm shouting. >> a little bit of a shout. irs going to say bellow. >> i project. it's been hard to talk about the biden document case for those that know it will be completely -- used as fodder by trump, trump rightest to paint a moral equivalency. how many classified documents did you take home to the beach house or the -- i don't know how it's done. i was on armed services committee four terms.

i don't tell people what i was briefed in like 1997. i just don't. it is the culture. >> how does this happen? >> that's why i think dick durbin is like, wait. what? what is your take on this? >> working on the senate finance committee i never saw a classified document. all the ones i have seen is in the picture at donald trump's home. the labels. there's a separate discussion here that i have been waiting to have and i won't start it now epa that's the over classification. senator moynihan wrote a book about. trillions of documents classified and way beyond the necessary level of this. but the reason i don't want to bring it now is i don't want to use that subject as the defense right now at this stage because

we don't know what's in these documents so one of the things i think is going to be probably very dissatisfied about this with the biden investigation especially, if you expect it is not going to be a court procedure there's a strong chance we will never know the contents of the documents classified that were found and it is possible for documents to be classified that we would look at now and think, well, that's basically public information. not a big deal. so that's one of the things that if it -- it is a strong element in what you call the biden defense but information we might never will know. we will know more in the trump case with a procedure and prosecution but there they can

bring the prosecutions without necessarily turning over every page of every document and showing us what they found. >> i'm sure you agree with me on this point. the fact that joe biden has documents, the fact that he opened up the house and it's nothing like so far like the trump document case. that shouldn't confuse merrick garland and the doj and hold them in separate silos and still charge donald trump if donald trump's case justifies charging him. regardless of what joe biden did. >> yeah. and everything we know about the biden case is because of biden cooperation. >> right. >> including the last weekend's discovery where the biden lawyers in talking to the justice department said, should we do more?

the last search they searched the bathrooms, every single room of the house. that did not happen -- >> the entire house. they opened up their entire house for searching. >> that did not happen in florida. that was a targeted search in florida in which the search warrant said these are the rooms to go into. the office, the storage room. they weren't searching bathrooms or the whole place. i heard the earlier discussion about why doesn't joe biden make a public statement about this. joe biden is behaviorally as conservative and careful as you get as a politician. surely the lawyers are saying this is an investigation. he could still say something publicly but he would not be able to answer every question, including the first which is, how did the documents leave the

building? the answer is i don't know. how did they get into that box? the answer is, i don't know. how did they get to your house? the answer is, i don't know. that's what the investigation is about and him trying to take this on as a public subject now would be really difficult because even he doesn't have the information he needs to answer basic questions. >> see? >> to the point, number one, i heard from sources the doj has absolutely asked the president not to talk about the investigation until it is complete. awkward tension. >> -- denied that. >> he is president. he recollected say something. you are right. thirdly, we don't know what the documents are. it is still bad and confusing and doesn't help politically. that's where we are so --

>> i think when the new documents stop being discovered then we can start an explanation. >> may be due. >> and things, strategy can take shape. >> let's get to the guest and bring in democratic senator warren of massachusetts and i'm sure would love us to change the subject. i'm curious your take on the biden documents case as it stands right now. >> the way i look at this is to think about what the justice department is doing. it's a reminder that the laws apply to everyone and true whether you are a sitting president, former president or anybody else. the justice department said, special prosecutor or a former or sitting president and the justice department will go forward without fear or favor

and how it should be in a functioning democracy. >> senator, you bring up a great point. for those that say that joe biden's document problems make it less likely that the doj charges donald trump, i think they have it backwards. the doj will prosecute people without fear or favor. i think you just nailed it. it makes it more likely i think that when donald trump is charged, if donald trump is charged, people can look who are fair minded and say, they're investigating both presidents. this is what the doj has found. >> that's right. a process that uncovers the facts, applies the law and says that's how it is in a democracy. we go forward based on that. not politics. >> all right. you have written a piece about the debt ceiling in an op-ed for

"the boston globe" entitled the republican con on the debt ceiling. you write in part house speaker kevin mccarthy and extremist republicans are running a con game. they claim their plan is about fiscal responsibility. it's not. the house republican plan is about protecting the wealthy and well connected from paying their fair share in taxes. here's the irony. without handouts to the wealthy there would be no debt limit ceiling argument to make. stitch up the loopholes punched in the 15% minimum tax on corporations and give extra bite to taxes on corporate stock

buybacks designed to goose up ceo pay. shut down tax havens for corporations. ask billionaires to pay taxes on the growing piles of wealth. finally, say no to the ridiculous and unpopular republican schemes to increase our national debt. >> senator, as you know -- >> nails it. >> yeah. >> when you raise a debt ceiling you are not talking about future debt but the debt incurred and so much of it is what actually congress will be paying off. the tax trump giveaways. >> it is exactly that. if the republicans have not pushed two things. the republican tax cuts that went mostly to those at the very top and the biggest corporations

and hollowing out the irs specifically so they could not hold wealthy tax cheats accountable, wouldn't be able to audit them, if those two things had not happened then we wouldn't hit the dead ceiling in i time in the first biden administration. think about that. this is a manufactured crisis and the real issue at stake here is who's going to pay to run the government? the republicans are real clear on that. not the rich folks. the first thing they have done after they took over the house is to pass a bill to make it easier for wealthy tax cheats to get away with it and now going to put forward a proposal to put a 30% nationwide sales tax in place. that's on everything from rent

to groceries to diapers to car repairs and do what? cut taxes for those at the very top. that's not going to bring down our deficit or the national debt. my point about this is to say to everybody else, we got to call the republicans out on this. they are threatening to wreck our entire economy just to protect a wealthy handful. if this were really about the national debt then there are plenty of places we could go to stitch up loopholes like no more of the tax havens abroad to get that under control but that is not where the republicans want to go. they want to cut social security, medicare. why? to protect the rich people.

>> why are we here now? why didn't speaker pelosi and leader schumer return a debt ceiling increase in a lame duck session last month in december? >> look. i pushed as hard as i could for that but it is hard to get the votes together. it is hard in congress when the problem is not staring you right in the face to take on the burden of trying to get through an increase. i want to lay this -- i understand the point about being in the majority. i pushed it myself but keep in mind it's mitch mcconnell who said no, no, no, no on raising the debt ceiling. they were fine with raising the debt ceiling when donald trump was president. the republicans voted three times to raise the debt ceiling in the four years of the trump

administration. once we have got a democrat in the white house now they don't want to raise the debt ceiling but create economic chaos as they can and keep offering tax cuts to the rich buddies. i think that's the political dynamics of what's going on here. >> talking about governing and getting things done. this is from "the new york times" this morning. speaker's union with firebrand may shape gop. after winning with hard right republicans kevin mccarthy gushed to a friend about the bond developed with an unlikely ally in the battle for survival. marjory taylor greene of georgia. i will never leave that woman he a california republican told the friend. quote i will always take care of her. what does that bode for a

senseless resolution to any crisis? >> that's right. you have put it right. to any problems we face. this is the problem with this house of representatives. that is, there are a group of people there who embrace the chaos because they have one goal in mind. get donald trump re-elected. if chaos and the next two years are -- they can blame on the democrats, if there's the economy that goes over a cliff, if the worldwide economy blows up, there are republicans particularly in the house who think it's easier to get our guy back in the white house. so long as that's the mind-set that is not a position to negotiate to make things better, safer in this country to work

better for hard working families who get up every day and want to do the work, pay the bills and keep going. we need a government on their side, not a government in total chaos and turmoil. i fear that we have got republicans in the house who embrace the turmoil and think that's politically going to advance their interest. that really worries me. >> senator, i think we have talked about this a lot and agree. republicans bent over backwards trying to help billionaires and corporations to slash the taxes. they should be focused on small businesses starting up. they don't do it. i believe that democrats are going to take control of the house again in a couple years

because of the extremism going on. i want to circle back to something we talked about before. that's our disappointment with how some democrats behaved on the ways and means committee in the house of representatives by giving breaks with all republicans to multi-national corporations and billionaires. they had a chance to pass a lot of what you were talking about. i must say i was shocked they didn't do more with that opportunity. why? >> you know though -- >> how do we plan ahead for the next couple years? i'm not asking that the income redistribution is massive. i want them to pay as much as

the clerical workers pay. >> exactly! lets's first do the glass half full and keep in mind last august the democrats got through without a single republican vote a 15% corporate minimum tax. and that is the first time in 30 years that taxes have been raised on these giant corporations. what it means going forward, this is something i worked on for a long time and means going forward that giant corporations like amazon, that report $11 billion in profits and then turn around and pay zero in taxes, won't be able to do that anymore. we have set it up to say they have to pay something here to help a lot, raising revenue. now we have got the next steps. for example, european has now

adopted a corporate minimum international tax to cut out the tax havens so the united states could follow suit and say there's not only a 15% corporate minimum on what you eastern here but a 15% minimum you have to pay somewhere around the world. you can't hide out in the tax havens and protect the profits. europeans headed there. great britain and the asian countries are working on this. it is time for the united states to do that. $600 billion to help support our country, to help pay to keep the country going. there are so many places that it's just a no-brainer. for so long people have said taxes, i don't want to have to talk about taxes. democrats have backed off. no. americans understand. we need a system that's fairer.

they keep paying. middle class families keep paying. it is those at the very top who are not paying and we have a chance now. we'll do it in the senate i hope to push forward the common sense proposals and then you know it is a very narrow majority in the house. let's see if we can pick up a few responsible republicans to join with our democrats and advance some more of the proposals that really are about putting the united states on a more level playing field, little businesses to big businesses and also who will pay to keep the country running. but the thing i know for sure in the debt ceiling negotiations not one dollar of spending cuts so long as the republicans are out there protecting billions

and corporations from paying the fair share. >> the proposals are popular with voters across the country. >> fairness is popular. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> jonathan, you had a question for lawrence o'donnell. democrat in arizona sinema will seek the seat. >> this was widely expected. he was staffed up with some of the people that put together jon fetterman's successful senate run. it will be a challenging 2024 map. lawrence, two parter. >> i'll weigh in this much. 10:00 p.m. tonight ruben on "the last word" right here.

>> that's a tease here. >> all i have to say at this time. >> let's get you on the debt ceiling, too. coming negotiations. the white house said we won't do this and not negotiate on the debt ceiling. not going to do it now. kevin mccarthy the new house speaker is saying we want to talk, we want to talk. the white house started outreach to mainstream republicans in the house. you don't want this. let's find a deal. where does this go from here? >> no one knows because it's a new level of recklessness with republicans on this issue. at the last minute they ultimately recognize the disaster has to be avoided. watching senator warren there. she's a member of the senate finance committee. we actually passed the first

dead ceiling in my time there passed in the senate and the senate floor but unanimous consent. okay? that's the way it was. it is only in the 21st century it's a crazy thing that it is so people especially like me who saw that process have no idea to predict what's happening here. you have this craziness standoff. as tough as elizabeth warren might want to play it, if bernie sanders were to do something, here's what the republicans know. elizabeth warren is a responsible person. bernie sanders is a responsible person and goes with the deal in the end. always does. always does. these republicans are not. so joe biden is negotiating against marjory taylor greene.

she won't be in the room but as kevin mccarthy said i won't leave that woman. so there's no predicting what the marjory taylor greene force in the house does. this is the first time in the discussions of the debt ceiling sitting here thinking in june, july we might for the first time in history see what happens when we crash through the final stages of it. all right. turning to the latest developments on the shooting in monterrey park, california. investigators are working to determine a motive. police carried out a search warrant at the gunman's home. police believe the 72-year-old man who killed ten and injured ten others lived alone in this senior living community in california 80 miles from where

saturday night's attack happened. the gunman died by suicide yesterday after a standoff with police. joining us now with the very latest from monterrey park, california, josh letterman. >> reporter: police are trying to figure out what was the motive. they say they don't know why and what led up to the moments on saturday night when this man walked in to this ballroom and began shooting killing those ten people. we are standing outside of the monterrey park star dance studio. this was an older crowd on the

lunar new year to celebrate and have evening dancing when they say that this incident took place. we are also hearing from the man who wrestled the gun from the gunman at the second location and he says as soon as this gunman walked in with that semiautomatic pistol it was clear he didn't come to rob anyone and looking for targets, to kill people. he said this was a man he didn't recognize and police trying to figure out what precipitated this and what took place in between when the shooting took place and the gun wrestled from the suspect at a second location and the next morning discovered with a self-inflicted gunshot wound in the white van in torrance, california. here monterrey park the

community is rattled and the sense of security shattered by the tragic incident. here's what some residents here had to say about what this has been like. >> this was supposed to be a celebratory time. supposed to be celebrating the new year but something like this has truly impacted. and it weighs a lot. it has a lot of weight. >> very disturbing, very sad to see. this happens especially during chinese new year. just horrible. >> reporter: the state's governor gavin newsom came here to pay tribute who lost and meet with community members. didn't make a big photo opportunity out of it but calling in the wake of the tragedy for gun reform and new gun laws, something we have

discussed. the governor once again saying this is a time when we need to focus on this, particularly as the l.a. county sheriff believes the weapon is not one that was legal to purchase in california. >> nbc's josh letterman live in california, thank you very much. before we go, we have an update this morning, good news on the kind fund which you created 12 years ago in partnership with unicef usa. >> hi. thank you for the scholarships. >> hi. thank you! >> hi, kind fund. thank you for the scholarship! >> hello, kind fund. thank you for the scholarship. >> thank you, kind fund!

>> beautiful. the kind fund had the best year ever raising over $5 million since the end of november alone. congratulations and keep it coming, right? >> listen. my thank you tour. you helped me this year and had a fabulous surge. i'm back here to say thank you again for doing this. >> to find out more information, visit last word desks.msnbc.com. thank you. we'll be watching "the last word" weeknights 10:00 p.m. on msnbc with your guest tonight ruben of arizona who moments ago officially challenging independent senator sinema for her seat -- >> do you have a bat phone? book them. >> yes. as soon as i heard the news i

just was texting. bang. just like that. >> yeah. sure. thank you. good to have you on. >> thank you. >> we love having you on. the latest from ukraine amid a debate whether to send more tanks to war torn country. plus, a growing number of young voters are registering as independent. we'll talk about what that could mean for 2024. before break, force and know your value hosting the second annual 30-50 international women's day summit in abu dhabi. five weeks away. a global event to bring together generations of women from the 30 under 30 and 50 over 50 lists. we'll hear from them on mentorship, leadership and of course building the life changing relationships.

we'll have two more big names i think this week. >> incredible. this is the place to commemorate international women's day. >> yep. >> i must say. >> global. >> the list is extraordinary. >> growing. all right. we hope you'll join us to learn more and how you can attend. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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we are going to turn to the war in ukraine where there may have been a breakthrough in the delivery of tanks to the nation. germany said they will not stand in the way if poland sends leopard 2 tanks to ukraine. the german defense minister said

a decision to supply tanks is forthcoming. until now germany linked the delivery of the tanks to whether the u.s. will supply abrams 2 tanks. poland's prime minister has said that if nato and eu applies did not consent to poland sending the tanks they would build a smaller coalition of countries to send them away. >> good for poland. let's bring in bill taylor and keir simmons. what's the latest, keir? >> i think we are at a pivot point and shaking up the diplomatic picture. imagine being the german chancellor. not relying on russian energy and sending massive military aid

to ukraine. not enough the critics say. germany is under pressure with the clock ticking. the foreign minister suggesting it might agree to poland sending german tanks and divided nato with america in the middle. it is about strategy. here's general milley speaking friday. >> from a military standpoint i still maintain that for this year it would be very, very difficult to militarily eject the russian forces from every inch of russian occupied ukraine. it would be very, very difficult. >> problem is if the cham of the joint chiefs is right that it's

difficult this year when will it happen? will it ever happen? 2024 elections in the u.s. while putin hopes to outlast the american and european public. that's why a group of nine nato countries are openly advocating equipping ukraine to push russia out of the territory. speaking to me the estonia prime minister said russia is planning a spring offensive. >> resources we see, bringing more troops to ukraine to have more people in ukraine as they had a year ago. we see that they are bombing a lot more. in six months perspective. obviously they tried to exhaust ukrainian air defense and this is why we try to like prepare

everything for the next big assault, big attack. >> guys, everyone agrees one day there will be negotiations. the disagreement is over the road to get there. they think the tanks will help win back the territory. germany would love to see the tanks with the american abram tanks but trickier to run and thousands of those german tanks in europe already. no one knows whether nato weapons change the dynamic. some think that waiting for russia to burn itself out. it all comes down to basic questionses. can ukraine win? what does winning lock like? how long will it take? while some in western governments warn if vladimir

putin is left with ukrainian land the aggression and nuclear threats will be vindicated with terrible international implications. >> all right why thank you so much. greatly appreciate your report. >> thank you. seems like no question here. if russia's allowed to just take over parts of ukraine we are back where we were after this effort. >> you are exactly right. let's bring in ambassador taylor. seems i guess simple as a tv news host to tell the german defense minister and secretary of defense of the united states what to do. but the russians, putin will not go to the negotiating table unless he is on the back heels. will not go to the negotiating table from a position of strength. we understand the dangers when

putin thinks this is an existential threat to him and to russia. then very bad things happen. but pushing russian troops out of ukrainian territory, that's not an existential threat for russia and seems we are not doing quite enough, not sending the right equipment to get the russias in retreat. >> joe, they are in retreat right now as they have been for the past several months and what we saw last week is what we see today is a coming together, a continued coming together of the nato allies and others. more than just nato. the international support and weapons providing is

unprecedented and just the americans last week 500 armored vehicles. the armored vehicles that are going into ukraine from nato allies will enable the ukrainians to push the russians out of the country, at least out of donbas. they talked about negotiating. negotiations will come. whether the ukrainians pushed the russians out of the country they can sit down and have the conversation. >> bill taylor, thank you. coming up, congressman adam schiff may be eyeing a run for u.s. senator in california. we'll talk about that and other big changes that republicans are

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coming up, one of the next guests represents the district where the deadly shooting took place over the weekend in california. congresswoman judy chu is standing by and joins us straight ahead on "morning joe."

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help boost heart-healthy energy, support blood pressure, improve circulation, and increase nitric oxide. rush to walmart for great-tasting total beets from force factor, the #1 beets brand in america! i created the always pan to make home cooking more joyful and simpler. the 8-in-1 always pan steams, sautes, boils, fries. and the non-stick, crazy slippery. meet the pan that'll finally make you give up take-out the always pan. former president trump spoke at a memorial service for lynette hardaway on saturday. hardaway was better known as diamond from the popular pro-trump conservative diamond and silk. at one point in his remarks, trump claimed he didn't know silk at all, despite her saying in her introduction of him how great trump treated them both.

>> president trump, i just want to say thank you so much for believing in diamond and silk. he treated us just like laura, just like the other children, eric, done jr., tiffany. he treated us just like -- when we came around, when diamond and silk came around, it was like we was part of the family. >> you know, the world has lost one of its brighter stars, a real star, but i see that we have another star who is equal to but she stepped up and she is different. i thought i knew them both. i didn't. i knew diamond, but i didn't know silk at all. i just learned about silk. you're fantastic. >> what? what? >> oh, my god. >> how does he say that? that's just not even -- >> he was very upset about how long it lasted. >> that's not even true.

he started complaining and -- >> terribly, terribly rude. >> this memorial service into a campaign speech railing against democrats and promoting the big lie and complaining that he was just there way too long. >> it's just gross. >> it is kind of gross. >> how do you have open borders when millions of people are being let into our country and taking away from our country, so hard to fix that. we can fix inflation. we can fix so much of what's been damaged over the last two years. they allowed their prisons to be emptied out into the united states of america. they allowed their mental institutions to be emptied out. inflation was caused by energy. they stopped the energy and all of a sudden your gas went from $1.87 a gallon -- >> okay. without having to see it, he also complained about how long the funeral was and that he was only supposed to be there for 15 minutes but it lasted so much longer, that he was stuck there.

>> and he was talking himself a very, very long time. so i don't know where to begin. >> your republican presidential candidate. >> just beyond bizarre, beyond rude, beyond anything that anyone would see in normal, polite let me say decent society. and this is a guy that a lot of people want to be the next president of the united states. again. >> again. and so on brand for him too. look, this is what happens when you have a narcissistic sociopath asked to give a homily at a funeral. it won't go well. donald trump has one subject. he has only one thing that he wants to talk about. and the crass indifference is just so -- he's not even aware of the fact that, you know, he is talking about other people

that they never met silk. of course it's rude. but this is donald trump. and he's not going to the change. but to your point, i continue to be amazed as you are. i always try to imagine the people who are watching this and going, yes, i want that man to be a role model for my children, i want that man to be the symbol of america, i want that man to have his finger on the nuclear button again. this has baffled me for six years. what is interesting is that as we get closer to 2024, trump's behavior is, if anything, more erratic. remember, joe, there were people, you know, talked themselves into believing, well, if he becomes president he'll become more normal, he'll grow into the job. >> right. >> it's the exact opposite. and it appears to be accelerating. but, again, as shocking as it is, no one should be surprised that donald trump goes to somebody's funeral says he

doesn't know the closest friend and then talks about himself the whole time because, well, he's donald trump. coming up, we'll go live to the white house to go to one of the president's top spokespeople. l more on the classified documents just ahead on "morning joe." orning joe.

all right. live pictures of los angeles for

you. it is 6:00 on the west coast. wake up, everybody. 9:00 on the east coast. we've been going for three hours already. it's time for the 1940s hour of "morning joe." as you wake up on the west coast, we are following the latest developments in the deadly mass shooting that happened saturday night in monterey park, california. ten people were killed, ten others wounded in an attack during a celebration of the lunar new year. nbc news senior national correspondent kate snow has the latest. >> reporter: the man authorities believe is responsible for killing ten people at a ballroom dance hall is no longer a threat. investigators say 72-year-old huu can tran opened fire inside that crowded ballroom in monterey park after 10:00 p.m. on saturday. >> additional units requested, multiple victims, gunshot wounds. >> five men and five women were killed and ten others wounded. witnesses inside describe the confusing chaos, initially mistaking the gunfire for

celebratory fireworks. outside, emergency crews treat the wounded in a nearby parking lot and transported others to area hospitals. it happened in one of the largest asian american communities in the country, about seven miles east of downtown los angeles. earlier saturday, thousands were at a festival to celebrate the lunar new year, including amber clemens. you were a few blocks away and what did you hear? >> like it was, like, six continuous, like, shots. >> reporter: tran had been a familiar face at the star ballroom dance studio in monterey park, though it's unclear how often he visited recently, three people who knew him told cnn. while investigators have not yet determined a motive, this say this may not have been the gunman's only target. just 20 minutes after fleeing the first scene, the armed shooter went to a different ballroom dance hall. the sheriff says two people inside wrestled the weapon away from him and he ran. >> he was disarmed by two

community members who i consider to be heroes, because they saved lives. >> reporter: it took more than 12 hours for officers to locate the elderly suspect inside this white van about 30 miles away from the crime scene. tactical teams breaking through the van's windows, finding the suspect behind the wheel with a fatal self-inflicted gunshot wound. overnight, authorities carrying out a search warrant of the suspect's home, the shooting leaving his neighbors shocked. >> he kept to himself. you just don't know day to day who's who and what's what. >> reporter: authorities trying to reassure the community there's no threat anymore. >> you are no longer in danger because this shooter is gone. >> reporter: but the aftershocks are still being felt. >> i try to reach him and didn't get an answer. >> reporter: this woman was searching for a friend who had visited the ballroom before, worried she may have been one of the victims. ten lives ended while out to celebrate a new beginning.

>> some of them have been here for 30 years. >> all right. let's bring in the woman you just saw in kate snow's report, democratic congresswoman to judy chu of california. her congressional district includes monterey park. also you lived in monterey park for 37 years. you served as mayor three times, on the city council. this is your home. what does your community need this morning? >> this community needs to heal. it's been a terrible 24 hours. i woke up yesterday morning to hear about this horrific shooting that i could never imagine would happen in monterey park with ten people dead and ten people in the hospital. and this right after a very joyous lunar new year festival celebration where thousands of people were just one block away. for the whole day, people were

in tremendous fear because this shooter was out there and they were worried about whether they could go to any lunar new year celebration after that, to any gathering of people or even whether to send their kids to the schools. so, when the shooter was finally found in the afternoon and was found to be dead, there was a tremendous amount of relief in the community. and now begins the process of healing. >> congresswoman, good morning. thanks for being with us today. please let us know if you're learning more from investigators as to the motive for this terrible tragedy and also, if you will, please speak to -- this is painful anytime but particularly in lieu far new year in that community where that holiday means so much. >> lunar new year is the highlight of the holidays throughout the year.

it is something that asian americans look forward to and asians in the world actually look forward to. it was especially a joyous occasion this year because it was the first time that we had the celebration after a three-year hiatus due to covid. so, people were really looking forward to being together, being out there, and looking forward to getting back to normalcy. but now we have to come together and heal after what happened these last 24 hours, and as far as the motive, we don't know, it is still to be determined, but it turns out that this gentleman was a part-time dance instructor. he somehow had some kind of relationship with the people inside the studio and probably with the other dance studio as well. >> congresswoman judy chu of

california, thank you. we'll follow the developments throughout the day. >> we'll be thinking about you and praying for your community. so sad. >> for your community. thank you so much. joining us now democratic congressman alan schiff of california. his district is right next to congresswoman chu's district. >> congressman, we've been talking about it this morning, looked at a pew report that showed since -- over the last decade, since sandy hook, murders from guns has increased 75%. and in 2020, almost five times as many people died from being murdered by a gun than died in the entire -- americans who died in the entire iraq war. the numbers are just staggering,

and this epidemic of gun violence keeps rising. >> you're absolutely right. and i want to join my colleague, judy chu, in expressing my sadness and condolence. i had the honor of representing monterey park for over a decade, and it's just devastating. i know what a tight-knit community it is. and to see a time of celebration within the asian community turned into a time of memorial is just heartbreaking. but i had the same mixture of emotion i think so many millions of americans do in seeing this news of being sickened on the one hand and just furious on the other because it happens over and over and over again, and we just can't seem to get enough done to stop it. the reality is there are things we can do to stop it. we don't have to live this way. we can't live this way. the rest of the world doesn't live this way. i've been carrying a bill for years now to try to expose the

gun industry, the same liability as every other industry in america. they shouldn't be immune from the harm the industry causes. and we shouldn't have weapons of war on our streets or extended ammunition clips as may have been used here. we could do something about this, and i think it's the gutlessness of some of the people i serve with that we haven't. >> so, let me just say this, too, congressman. we always hear the same thing after these shootings, oh, you can't talk about the murders now, you can't talk about all those people being murdered right now, one shooting after shooting after another shooting, one murder after another murder. it's never right time to talk about these murders. that would be like saying on september 12th, 2001, now so not the time to talk about islam and

the threat to the homeland. the cause and effect is there for everybody to see. when is it going to be the right time for congress and the president to do what 90% of americans want them to do, which is at least pass universal background checks? >> that's absolutely right. it's going to be the right time when members of the congress start to understand they'll be thrown out of office if they don't. and that's what we need to have happen. it needs to be the end of a political career if you're not willing to defend your constituents against this senseless violence. you have no business serving in office if you're unwilling to stand up to this industry and protect the people that you represent. >> all right. so, turn chairman of the house intelligence committee in the last congress and one of the impeachment managers for president trump's first

impeachment trial. now you might be barred from the intel committee. house minority leader hakeem jeff reetz responded to speaker kevin mccarthy's comments that he would block both you and democratic congressman eric swalwell from serving on the house intelligence committee in his nomination letter of you both, jeffries writing, "it is my understanding that you intend to break with the long-standing house tradition of deference to the my yoert party intelligence committee recommendations and deny seats to the ranking member schiff and representative swalwell. the denial of seats to duly elected members of the house democratic caucus runs counter to the serious and sober mission of the intelligence committee. at the same time that republicans have threatened to deny seats on the intelligence committee to clearly qualified democratic members, serial fraudster george santos has been placed on two standing

committees of the house and welcomed into your conference." >> so, what do you have to say, congressman, about the double standard? >> well, this is kevin mccarthy once again catering to the most right-wing elements of his conference and doing the will of the former president as well. he doesn't like the fact that i led the impeachment of donald trump for withholding hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid from ukraine while that nation was at war in order to essentially extort them into helping his political campaign. that's too bad. we're going to continue to hold mccarthy accountable, trump accountable, and for him to mess with the intelligence committee this way, to try to dictate the democratic representation on this committee and not just essentially tear down the functioning of that committee but build up a new committee on the select committee on the representation of the federal government, these should be seen as hand in hand, tearing down

legitimate committees that are doing important national security work, building up these bogus committees that he's going to seek, you know, the right-wing crazies. and it's just a further destruction of our norms, and i think deterioration of our democracy. >> so, we'd love to get your take on the fact that more classified documents were discovered at president joe biden's delaware home last week. in a statement on saturday, the president's personal attorney revealed that fbi agents spent more than 13 hours at the biden's wilmington residence on friday and their search turned up, quote, six items consisting of documents with classification markings. like the documents previously found, biden's legal team says newly discovered files were found from his time as vice president but the attorney said the new batch included documents from biden's time in the senate

where he served from 1973 to 2009. a biden administration official and a separate source familiar with the matter tell nbc news that the latest search was prompted by the white house, not the department of justice. it's unclear if the new documents were found in the same location as previously unearthed files which were discovered in a room adjacent to joe biden's garage. >> congressman, since you've obviously served on the intel committee, you're a perfect person to ask this question. if we searched your home, your properties, if we searched your cars and searched -- would we find any classified documents there? >> no, you wouldn't. and it is a real problem that these documents are somewhere they shouldn't be. i have a deep concern over anytime we discover that there is classified information and materials anywhere they shouldn't be. and i am so careful when i leetch that skiff, i'm careful

when guy into it. i literally pat myself down to make sure i've gotten rid of all my electronics and very careful not to take anything out of the skiff. now, look, i'm glad the president is fully cooperating. that's what he should do and needs to do. but the fact that there are, you know, additional documents now in a place they shouldn't be, we need the intelligence committee to do an assessment just as i urged with the documents in mar-a-lago and make sure there hasn't been any compromise of the information. >> democratic congressman adam schiff of california, jonathan you. which now brings us to senior adviser and spokesman for the white house counsel's office and special assistant to the president, ian sams. thank you for being on the show this morning. as you just heard from congressman schiff, it's sort of unusual to leave a skiff with anything that is classified, take home classified documents. how did this happen? >> look, i think you've heard

the president speak to this, heard the president's personal attorneys speak to this. the president takes this seriously, and there's why he's fully cooperating with the department of justice. we're following doj's lead throughout this investigation, making sure that they have access to the information that they need to conduct an efficient and thorough review. that's why the president and his lawyers offered up access, unprecedented access, i should add, to every single room of the president's personal home to ensure that any documents that need to be properly in possession of the government are taken and are in proper possession of the government. from the very beginning discovering the materials, the team handled this the right way and responsibly with the proper authorities, first with the national archives, then with the department of justice. and that may be a contrast to what we've seen in the last few years, but this is the president who believes in the rule of law, a president who understands the importance of an independent justice department, and so he's giving them access to the information they need to conduct a thorough review, and the doj

at the end of this review will be able to present the full set of facts. >> okay. so, i get -- it didn't answer my question really, but i agree it's been handled completely differently. there's a complete contrast to the mar-a-lago documents. put that aside for a second. how could this happen? and do you agree, having classified documents outside of where they should be is a serious issue? >> yeah. look, the president takes this very seriously. as you heard him say multiple times in the last week. i understand the question about how this happened. >> yeah. >> and i think it's really important to understand that's exactly the type of thing a justice department investigation would be looking at. so when you appropriately believe in the independence of the justice department to be able to conduct investigations free from undue influence and interference, that this president has committed going all the way back to the campaign, you know, that is why we're deferring to the justice department to answer some of these questions.

they're going to be tasked with finding all the facts, putting it all together, understanding exactly what happened, asking the questions. that's appropriate. that's why we're fully cooperating, to understand how this happened. and the president -- >> wait a minute. does the doj need to tell the president why the president has classified documents in his home? i don't understand that. >> joe, i understand the question. i think it gets to the heart of the matter. the doj is the one tasked with finding out the facts, and they'll ask questions and seek information. we're being fully cooperative with that process. we hope that process moves forward thoroughly and efficiently so that we can get all the answers out there. so we're just going to be respectful. i think it's more appropriate for questions about the underlying investigation to be addressed by the justice department, but, again, we're going to offer full cooperation and ensure they have access to what they need. >> okay. ian, the question, though, i'm

sort of stuck on here is i understand that there is an investigation, there's a limit to what you can say and all that, but there are obvious possibilities here as to how in the world this could have happened. are there any that you can share with us? >> well, again, i understand you're asking these question, but we want to be very careful to respect the investigation of the doj. they're going to ask these questions and answer these questions and provide information on it. we want to make sure we respect that process as it plays out. there's to going to be attention here. we understand that, between the kinds of information and public disclosures that you all in the media want to be able to try to explain this to the american people. but you had lawrence o'donnell on last hour. i heard him talking about this. i thought it was very wise. they're the one who is will look at this. they're the one who is will provide the final fact set, and we're being responsible not to interfere with that process and make sure they can be the definitive answer to that

process. >> here's some of what senator dick durbin and democratic senator joe manchin of virginia had to say yesterday when asked about this very issue. take a look. >> to think that any of them ended up in boxes in storage one place or the other is just unacceptable. those documents should not have been in the personal possession of either joe biden or donald trump. embarrassed by the situation as he should have been, he invited the government agencies in to carefully look through all the boxes he had accumulated. it's a much different approach. it is outrageous that either occurred. >> putting in a political kangaroo court is not going to help. >> high-level members of the administration were taken by surprise by this, to say the least, ian. do you agree with what the

senators had to say? should the president be embarrassed and, you know, was he surprised to learn that he had documents that were classified? >> yeah. look, the president said this himself last week, he was surprised to learn this. his lawyers, when they discovered him, made him aware. i think there's something here that -- well, first of all, both dick durbin and joe manchin, you know, they understand that the president is acting responsibly. you heard from dick durbin that we're working responsibly with the doj throughout this process and being fully cooperative with them. there was a comment that was made i think something about the political nature of this. i think the american people are smart enough to understand what's going on here. when it comes to his standing, the president, with the american people, they can see he's taking this course of action and believing in the rule of law and being cooperative with the justice department. when you think about when we came into office and 9 million

people had lost their jobs and over two years we created 11 million jobs, when you think about the hundreds of thousands of businesses that closed during the pandemic, and just last week we learned that record numbers of small businesses have applied to open just in the last two years, and right now, this month -- right now, this month we're implementing the chips and science act, the ira, the infrastructure plan. >> i get it. >> these are the things the president is doing that directly impacts and improves the lives of the american people. >> ian. >> we can participation in an investigation and continue to work for the american people. >> and i actually think the list you just gave us of accomplishments is why a lot of democrats were, like, come on to when this broke. and you heard congressman shich just before this interview. she walks into his skiff, checks for his devices, walks out, makes sure he doesn't have anything. a lot of people are asking how could this happen? and that's the answer that we're stuck on. there's no answer being

provided. >> well, again, i'm going to stress this again, and i understand that there's a desire for public disclosure of information, that there's a desire for facts to come out. but it's important that the full set of facts be gathered by the department of justice and to presented publicly so people the american people can understand all of these details. that is the job of an independent, strong justice department to do. so we'll be fully cooperative with that process to make sure they have all the information they need to define the full set of facts. then we'll be able to talk publicly more about the conclusion of that investigation and what it uncovered. >> ian, the american public does not know and maybe you don't know the date on which all of these papers were deemed to be classi classified, whether it was 16 years ago or 60 years ago. but do you have an opinion on when or if the papers that were found will be listed publicly as to what they were all about? >> mike, i think that's a great

question, and i think it's exactly the kind of thing that the justice department will be doing as they review the material and documents that have been properly hand back into possession of the government. again, as soon as our to team and the lawyers for the personal side of the president noticed these materials, they handed them over to the proper authorities. they were the ones who are in possession of these documents. they are the one who is will be poring through them to understand the fact pattern. and that's entirely appropriate for them to do and it's frankly why the president and his commitment to the rule of law as given the doj access to what they need. we'll let that process play out. it's appropriate for the doj to be looking at that information and to be kind of explaining and looking specifically at the details of the underlying material. that's why we're giving them access to what they need. >> ian, good morning. jonathan lemire. certainly we don't need to stress again the differences between this case and that with the former president, but there has been polling in the last week or so that suggests american voters, including democrats, the majority not

happy with how this has been handled by the white house, and part of that might be because of the confusing messages. twice in the last week or so, two different times there's been -- white house has put out statements suggesting that the search for these documents were complete and each of those times more of those do you wants were found. so, explain that, how that could happen, and also the sense of hurting the credibility of the white house as you are trying to tell the american people, hey, we're trying to do your business while doing this too. >> jonathan, thank for that question. look, i think any investigation -- i talked about this a little last week when i took questions from the press corps at the white house about this -- in any investigation, information develops. that's the nature of an investigation. they're looking at facts. they're getting documents. they're looking at different people who are involved in this and trying to piece together the full story. that's how an investigation is supposed to work. and so as that happens, of course information will develop. and we've been following the doj's lead through this process.

the initial searches conducted by the president's personal attorneys were coordinated with the doj. we offered access when additional documents were found for the fbi and doj to come in and look through the house and make sure -- unprecedented access to every room so they could take away any additional information they needed as part of their investigation. >> okay. >> so there's a desire for us to release more information. we're doing our best to release information consistent with that ongoing investigation and to respect its integrity, but at the end of the day, information is going to develop through this process. we're following doj's lead, and we'll be fully cooperative with that process. >> okay, ian. are there any possibilities that there are documents at other locations owned or used by president biden in the past? >> so, the president's personal lawyers and doj are in communication and they're making sure that they're coordinated on the next steps of this investigation. look, we're going to be really careful not to talk about potential future steps and development unless the investigation itself because we

respect the independence of doj to conduct this thoroughly and fairly on their own accord. so i'm just not going to get ahead of that process and questions like that. >> okay. so there's a possibility. i don't know. senior adviser -- >> one more? >> yeah. i want to explain one thing too. >> what? >> we know that it feels your birthday. >> happy birthday. >> what was it, your 34th? 35th? how old are you? >> my 34th birthday. >> 34th birthday. >> he hates you right now. >> birthday party on national tv. thank you very much. >> exactly. mika wanted, instead of giving you 34 candles, she wanted to ask the same question 34 times. how did it happen? how did it happen? how did it happen? >> we're happy to take the questions, 35, 36 times. we'll see. >> we'll wait on that for your next birthday. senior adviser ian sams.

>> please come back. >> thank you so much. >> roll, tide. >> look at this. he gives me my birthday present. he also knows that i get along with -- >> roll, tide. >> so jonathan lemire. >> okay. i'm still confused. >> mika asked the same question 34 times. how do they know? they'll let us know. i got to say, though, i got to say -- and people may not like it watching the show, if they hate joe biden, me saying this, but it's the truth -- that's how you do it. right there. if you're spokesperson, that's how you do it. you say we don't have all the information. we're going to let the justice department get all the information. there are things that -- like are you kidding me, the doj has to give the information instead of joe biden? >> that's how it works when

you're following the law. >> if you're a spokesperson, you're doing it. that's how it's done. and it's not going to please a lot of people. but you don't step on yourself and you don't say something today that's going to cause chaos tomorrow with the white house press corps. >> that is sort of how it started, yeah. >> yes. now, they had run into that problem before. certainly, because they had to announce the search complete and turns out it wasn't and more documents were discovered. this is more of a political issue. they strugglinged with some of the communications early on. that's why ian is doing this job now. he is in that role, the physical face of the white house response to this matter. he's been making the rounds doing press interviews to try to answer questions that hadn't been answered before or to say we don't know yet and we can't say yet because this is an ongoing matter. so, they are trying to, as best they can, stress the differences between this matter and what

we're seeing in mar-a-lago including the response to this matter, the public communications in this matter, and that's what they're trying to do here. but obviously, look, this is something the white house is struggling with right now. they didn't anticipate dealing with this. they had a lot of momentum going into this and now they're saddled with this controversy. >> he was dealt a bad set of hands and did a pretty good. but the bottom line is at some point the white house has to be able to get out there, get in front of the camera, and say no more documents out there. >> right. >> we searched everything. we searched his childhood home. we searched the ferris wheel he rode on when he was 17. we've gone through -- no more documents there. >> commanders. >> they've got to get to a point where they can say no more documents. >> well, i mean, ian only misspoke one time in response to mika's question about exactly that, are there any other residences where documents might

be found. the correct answer was from ian, should have been, oh, my god, i hope not. instead, he, you know, gave the basic recitation. >> said it was a possibility. they have to check everything. they have to go through -- that's probably what's happening. and it's very serious. levity without at the same time knowing this could be a really serious problem for the president. >> i'm incredulous that these documents keep showing up. i'm so glad we had adam schiff here to sort of say what i said, which is it's beyond us how either of these presidents got these classified documents. >> i think we know donald trump took his and held them and ate some of them, flushed them down toilets, so there was an intention there. >> huge difference. >> i'm not a lawyer, but you could see a lot of intent there in the action.

i don't know what happened. not good. >> the thing is if -- >> i can't believe we're even talking about this. >> the people wondering, mike, say dick durbin would say what he said or other members of congress -- >> i don't completely agree with him. >> -- even if you disagree that he's diminished, there are a lot of members of congress that have dealt with classified documents before who would never dream of taking them home. >> yeah. >>, no because you know what would happen if you ever got caught taking them home. you old be arrested. you would be arrested. >> yeah. well, we don't know what these are yet, so -- and we will be continuing to follow and hope the doj delivers more information. at some point the president -- >> what? >> should say something when he can. what? what are you getting at? >> more love letters to kim jong-un. >> that's donald trump. he likes to keep stuff because it's cool. he says it's cool.

the red folders, classified. i don't know. >> big difference. coming up on "morning joe," the growing pressure to arm ukraine with weaponry to break through russian lines. one country signals its intent to send tanks to ukraine without waiting for its allies. we'll tell you who that is coming up. richard engel and admiral james stavridis will join us. and many said a manhattan real estate mogul would never be elected president and then it happened. many dismissed the notion that an independent candidate can be elected president, but could that happen? that discussion is ahead on "morning joe." of things need to get to where they're going. and at chevron, we're working to help reduce the carbon intensity of the fuels that keep things moving. today, we're producing renewable diesel that can be used in existing diesel tanks. and we're committed to increasing

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now and for generations to come. - join dylan and me as we get personal about the environment and how we can each do our part. - watch our conversation on peacock. earlier today poland's prime minister confirmed his government is planning to ask germany for permission to send

leopard tanks to ukraine but also that poland plans to send them whether or not germany approves. comments following yesterday's remarks by the foreign minister that his country would not stand in the way if poland insisted on sending the tanks. >> let's bring in former four-star admiral james stavridis. and chief foreign correspondent richard engel. admiral, how important are these tanks to the ukrainian cause? >> immensely important. and the reason is look at a map. the ukrainians are pushing hard up to the north and they're pushing hard to the south. what they would use those tanks for, they'd put them in the center, joe, where you're showing on that graphic. that would enable them to crack that land bridge that runs from russia itself all the way down to ukraine. it would make vladimir putin's

problems much worse logistically. it would be an enormous symbolic value. and it would have real military consequence. it would not be the single silver bullet, but when you add it to everything else that we put into this conflict, i think it could be a real hinge moment. i hope the germans step up and send german tanks. clearly, they're not going to stand in the way of polish, baltic, and many other nations with these excellent leopard tanks. by the way, barnacle, this one's for you -- you can take a stein of beer and balance it on the gun on the leopard tank while it drives. that's how stable and fast it is. these are lethal machines on the battlefield. we have to get them to these ukrainians. >> wow. >> you say that was for barnicle. he can't keep a beer stable in fenway park. so, richard, i feel compelled to

just open the floor to you here, but i do want to build up something the admiral said that i found fascinating. people love to talk about how there are divisions in the alliance and there haven't been that many, but i will say poland and the baltic states, they're on the front lines and they talk like countries that are on the front line. can you talk about the split between them and say germany and and france and those not quite as close to the danger? >> so, the countries on the front line, poland, the baltic states, they're very concerned that the further west you go, the further you go to germany, france, the less interest there is in continuing the war. so there have been several very public dispute where is germany is effectively outing its neighbors, outing germany, saying it's the germans hold

toing us back. in the early days of this conflict, the poles did something similar. they wanted to send fighter jets into ukraine and they made a lot of noise about it saying it's not us, we want to do it, it's the other partners who are slowing us down. i think that's a political decision, some internal calculation, but also a way to keep pressure on countries further away to continue to remind them how important this is. going back to what you were just talking about with admiral stavridis about the tanks, what we're seeing right now is a oakes on moekt. months ago it was on giving the ukrainians weaponry to fire from a safe enough range. now what we're seeing is this increased focus on getting them things that they can move around the battlefield, whether that's bradleys, striker fighting

vehicles, both of which the u.s. said it will provide ukraine, and tanks. i believe this tank deal will go forward tomorrow. the german defense minister is meeting with the secretary-general of nato. and the reason the focus now is on mobility is that the two sides are in kind of a slugfest. you have what often looks like a war of attrition with the ukrainians firing their artillery, better artillery than they had before, and the russians firing their artillery, lots of damage, lots of casualties. but over time if you get into a slugfest, it's like a boxing match. you have the two sides trading blows at each other, the bigger side ultimately could end up winning, and russia does have more artillery, more people. so if they're just in a stand-up fight pounding away at each other, they'll cause a lot of damage and the ukrainians need the ability to change the dynamic on the battlefield, hit points of vulnerability like that pocket the admiral was talking about. >> admiral, pick up right there.

we know the ukrainians' needs for weapons and equipment has changed with each phase of the war. now this slugfest here with this incremental battling has led to these tanks. there is another challenge on the horizon. ukrainian official base the day, louder and louder, they say russia will launch a major offensive in springtime. what will ukrainians need then? >> the next thing that is going to be under debate, and richard alluded to it just a moment ago correctly, is combat aircraft, for two reasons. one is one thing the russians are doing quite successfully, tragically, is using their airpower to strike ukrainian cities, go after the electric grid, kill civilian, try to break the morale spom there's an air war going on that we haven't even addressed this morning that's going to need more surface-to-air missiles but

ultimately combat aircraft. the poles, as richard said, fly the mig 29. they're happy to turn that over to the ukrainians, who know how to fly that jet. we have f-16s, relatively learnable in a fairly short period of time. so i think that air war is coming, and to close on this point, as the combat gets more mobile on that battlefield, the ukrainians are going to need aircraft, combat aircraft to attack russian formations, air-to-surface bombardment, precision guided. that will be the next big turn of the wheel. i think that's the next conversation ukraine is going to be having. i'd say that's what they need the most as they head toward a potential spring offensive. >> richard, can you discuss the shadow of history that falls all over this war, germany's reluctance to provide weapons that probably will end this week, poland's participation,

the fact that this is all occurring right next to country where is the residents of world war ii can still be felt in these areas? what impact, if anything, do you think this has? >> a tremendous impact. we're not talking about ancient history. if you look at battle maps from world war ii and the later years of world war ii, russia occupied the baltics, occupied parts of poland, and it cast a very large shadow over the entire region. and those countries haven't forgotten about it. they firmly believe that vladimir putin intends to subdue ukraine and then go after them, that this is unfinished business, that vladimir putin has a historic agenda to try and reconstitute the russian empire. and they don't want to see appeasements. they don't want to see germany, france, italy, or the united states accommodate vladimir putin, appease vladimir putin,

let him take part of ukraine or all of ukraine because they believe that if ukraine is breakfast, then eastern europe will be lunch and dinner. so that's why it's felt much more intensely there. look what's happening to finland, to sweden. these countries are running for protection under the umbrella of nato. so when you get close to that border, the conflict becomes much more real, the history of world war ii and the history of the cold war becomes much more real. and there's a story i'm working on right now, the ukrainians themselves are keenly aware of this world war ii history, and there are partisan movements. i have an hour coming up that i'm working on as we speak about partisan movements inside ukraine. these are civilian resistance movements that are formed in cities under russian occupation, because russia has still managed to occupy about 20% of ukraine. we don't talk about that 20% very often because we don't

really know what happens in that 20% of ukrainian territory that is held by russian troops. i spent a lot of time in an area that had recently been liberated and spent a lot of time talking to the partisans, the people who are living in hiding in the shadows sabotaging the russian occupation, attacking russian troops while -- and then going back to their apartments, hiding their weapons, burying their flags. so there are many parallels to world war ii, because these are the same kinds of partisan movements that happened in france against the nazis, in italy against the fascists, but now they're happening inside ukraine against the russian occupation. >> yeah. and, mike, to underline what richard just said, and admiral, to underline how fresh these wounds are, i just looked up because i knew the back story here for the prime minister of estonia. she tweeted this last year --

"today 73 years ago my mother, only 6 months old at the time, was deported to siberia with my grandmother and great grandmother. we remember." we remember. and, yes, they do remember. and they're not really concerned about the niceties of debates in germany or france because of it. they understand in the most graphic ways the danger of an expansionist russia. >> nbc's richard engel and retired admiral james stavridis, thank you both very much for joining us this morning. >> thank you guys so much. and still ahead -- >> i'm going to retweet that. it's amazing how -- >> punts it all in perspective. >> -- puts it in perspective, how they feel about this. most voters do not want a rematch of the 2020 presidential election, but does that mean america is ready for a third-party candidate? that's next on "morning joe."

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if in 50 states, number one i promise you this between now and the convention, we'll get both parties' head straight. >> the most successful third-party candidate, who hurt perot in 1982. >> as 2024 draws near, and more and more voters say they are not happy with their choices, the circumstances may be ripe for another independent to make an impactful play for the white house. but can an independent win? joining us now civil rights leader dr. benjamin chai vis who was recently named national co-chair of no labels. also with us, director at the substitute of politics at

harvard university, and former adviser to president george w. bush mark mckinnon. he's co-host of show time's "the circus". >> thank you so much for being with us. why did you decide to get involved with no labels and this search for an independent president? >> no labels has been around for 12 years, and i believe in bipartisanship. i think that the problem that our nation faces right now is that the extremes on the right and extremes on the left are not offering an opportunity. and no labels just did a poll last month of 25,000 americans, and most americans believe that our nation needs to move forward and not backwards, and so what happens this year in 2023 i think we were going to see hopefully some progress and bipartisanship. and that's going to set the stage for 2024. i think that most people want to see our nation and our democracy progress and not go back, and i

think the things that have gone on with former president trump represent back wardness and not necessarily represent going forward. >> mark mckinnon we've talked about the possibility of an independent presidential candidate. i must say my attitudes over the last year or so have started to changing a little bit about this because i've seen what happens when one billionaire with too much money and too much time on their hands can come in and have far too much influence on our system. any concerns there that if we get an independent candidate who's a billionaire, suddenly we're -- just the law of unintended consequences, they may not all be good. >> well, i think the consequences americans don't like is not having another option. the last thing americans want,

at least 86% of americans polled they don't want two 80-year-olds running for president. they think that 75 years old is the cutoff age for anybody running for president. there's a reason why american corporations forced ceos out at 65. shouldn't the most important job in the world have somebody as their candidate with their full faculties, and you just don't have full faculties at 80. americans should have another age. just doing a smart break the glass emergency option because it takes a lot of work and a lot of money to pay for the runway because you have to get ballot access and a lot of other operational things underway that needs to be done ahead of time. that's all they're doing so a year from now if we end up with donald trump as the nominee and a diminished joe biden as the nominee, americans will have another option. >> hey, john, you've obviously done a lot of polling over the years about young voters in particular, they describe themselves as independent perhaps, therefore interested in

a third-party candidate. what are some particular issues that speak to them that they really want, that wouldn't fit neatly into one box or another. we often associate them with younger voters. if you're not democrat, why would they go independent then? >> well, a couple of things, john. first of all, millennials and gen z, the groups that you're referring to, they're represent close to 40% of the vote in 2024 and the next presidential race, and i think the concern that they have about both parties generally, those who are independent isn't necessarily just the parties but it's the alliance they believe the parties have with elites, with the media, with lobbyists, with those who -- the corporate interests who are funding the campaigns. i think less about the parties individually and more about the elites. so the question is where this third-party person comes from and its solution wouldn't be -- i'm not suggesting that mark and dr. chambers are suggesting

this, but that it wouldn't be a centrist elitist. the problem with the younger people is elitism, not just the younger people but all americans right now. >> 12 years ago you mentioned no labels began. 12 years ago i would submit to you that the republican party was drastically different, really far an element compared to the republican party of today, 2023. so what would happen if you injected a third-party candidate, even if it was joe biden at 80 years of age against donald trump or a donald trump clone republican candidate, what would happen to damage the chances of the election of a legitimately decent human being, joe biden. >> the purpose of no labels is not to be a spoiler. we're not trying to be a spoiler party. what we're trying to do is give all americans a chance to weigh in to the future of the nation, and i think that -- and what has happened in the last 12 years because of no labels we have something called the problem

solvers caucus. you know, john scott hammond, democrat from new jersey, brian fitzpatrick, a republican from pennsylvania, 29 democrats, 29 republicans working together. the only reason where we got the bipartisan infrastructure bill is because of the conference working together. i think that 2023 this year, when it comes to the debt ceiling and other things that the nation is facing, it's going to be the problem solvers caucus. republicans, democrats, and independents working together. polling shows that they want candidates running for president that represent the values, the aspirations, and the hopes of all americans. >> mark mckinnon, final thoughts. >> listen, i just think, joe, that in this day and age where you have nominees of parties who are 80 years old or representing

a fringe element of the party that americans should have a third option. listen, is it difficult? yes. it's not impossible. it just takes a lot of work and a lot of spade work ahead of time. that's all that no labels is doing. they're putting down the ballot access that costs upwards of $30 million to get people on the ballot because it is rigged against a third option, but that doesn't mean that it can't happen. and listen, nothing happens in politics until it does. as mika said in the intro, we can't have a real estate developer, we can't have a black president and then you do. so stand by. >> thank you all very much for being on the show this morning. and that does it for us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage live from monterey park in two minutes. inutes

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