good day to you. i'm peter alexander. werth we are live in washington, d.c. we have breaking news developing

over the last 45 minutes. nbc news confirmed the classified documents were discovered at former vice president mike pence's home in indiana. that's according to multiple letters from his attorney to the national archive. the latest on away we know about what was found. plus after a second massacre in three days, stuns california, with the toughest gun laws is left struggle thing for answers. they are not alone. sadly so far this year, the u.s. has seen 39 shootings. that's more than one for each day of the year so far. 120 children killed, 1,200 americans shot and killed and it's only january. a judge in georgia is hearing arguments about whether the public will be allowed to see the details of a seven-month investigation into former president trump's attempts to interfere with with the 2020 election results there. we are live at the courthouse.

we do want the to start with the breaking news. a lawyer for former vice president mike pence discovered documents marked classified at pence's personal home last week. the documents have been turned over to the fbi. i want to bring in senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, ali vitali is on capitol hill for us, joyce vance, the former u.s. attorney law professor at the university of alabama as well as an msnbc legal analyst. let's get to kelly. within the last hour, nbc news obtained these two letters that were sent from the attorney of the former vice president mike pence to the national archives. they detail the discovery of documents in the last week or so. walk us through what we know and what we're still learning as we speak. >> reporter: certainly, what this indicates is the former vice president is trying to demonstrate cooperation here through these letters with his lawyer laying out the timeline. and emphasizing the

conversations, memorializing phone conversations he had with officials to tiend out the proper way of turning over these materials once they were discovered. and to try to make certain that the proper government authorities have them. it also indicates there was a surprise element of this as well. once they had done the notification, the fbi came to the pence residence at 9:30 p.m. and retrieved some of that material that had been contained in a pence safe, taking that unexpectedly this letter indicates, and there were additional conversations about providing additional boxes of contents that included records going beyond classified materials, but other government records that would be likely copies of official records, according to this letter. so that those could be processed by the national archives, reviewed and materials given back to the former vice president when that review is

completed. what the letters indicate is a timeline for what took place, trying to affirm that the former vice president was not knowingly or trying to keep these records and he readily acknowledged that government records of this sensitive nature belonged to the government. then trying to establish through these letters what the proper procedures would be. and how to communicate all of that. by putting it all this these letters, they are trying to lay out the case. how did it happen, did it happen and so on. what this does is tells us all that this issue of those who have the authority to review and work with classified materials apparently have a more difficult time with the retention of them than we have been commonly led to believe. we know about the very complicated issues with former president trump, who had described those records belonging to hum.

he had the ability to personally declassify things by thinking about it, very separate case. this is much more, at least on its surface as we're learning, much more like what we're seeing with sitting president joe biden in that records were found, once identiied there was an immediate outreach to proper authorities to say they are here. let's remove them in the proper way. so more similarities on its faces based on what we know at this moment between the pence case and the biden case. what that would mean politically will be determined in the hours and days ahead. it certainly shows that this is a hr likely scenario than maybe we had had realized. i reached out to the office of former president bush. they tell me after two terms in office, they are confident that all classified materials from his two terms both classified and government records, those not classified but belonging to

the government were all given to the national archives. so we have been doing outreach to those who would have had that kind of contact with these materials to see what is the state of play, but clearly, boxes that are in people's homes that were moved in transitions can be problematic. that's part of what is playing out here. what it means politically is a question. what it means for the attorney general and what should happen next is an ongoing question as well. >> as you are reporting right now, we're also learning about four boxes that were recovered in the home in which some of those documents were found that were hand delivered by the attorney to the national archives just yesterday. so the exploration process continues as they troo to try to determine how many dlts were there. you talk about the differences legally and politically here. i want to talk about the political angle for a moment with ali vitali. here's what the former vice president mike pence said in recent weeks about president biden's handling of classified

documents. take a listen. >> the handling of classified materials and the nation's secret is very serious matter. and as a former vice president of the united states, i can speak from personal experience about the attention that ought to be paid to those materials when you're in office and after you leave office. and clearly, that did not take place in this case. but the unequal treatment before the law was deeply troubling to me earlier this week. >> he said clearly they were not taken seriously by president biden, which is to suggest they weren't taken seriously by him either at this point. this is all notable because it poses a real challenge for those house republicans now this control of things in the building where you are standing here. the oversight committee already vigorously going after any documents and details from this white house right now. they face a really unique

challenge as if it appears that pence and biden handled these scenarios pretty much the same, but very differently than former president trump. >> reporter: that's exactly right. at the crux has been the cooperation, at least it appears that pence and biden versus obstruction in the case of former president trump. that's always been a key difference. but in just the last few minutes as this news is making its way around capitol hill, lindsey graham put the thought out that which is clearly we have a problem here. for him, he wants more answers on how this was able to happen. i think that's certainly the mood when talk to lawmakers on the senate side. they are still in the position of trying to just get more information on what's in these documents. they asked for a damage assessment. and you have to imagine that this a situation like this, we could see a continuation of that kind of request from the

director of national intelligence. even though we're just an hour into this news breaking to us and becoming public. the other thing here is the way house republicans will handle this. we have seen them really charge at the current president and the current white house trying to say that they want visitor logs from will hinge ton, more information about why ask how these documents ended up in his residence and at the penn biden center. there's been ongoing conversations, the golden age of letter writing, between the white house, the white house counsel's office and capitol hill. all of these committees looking to do oversight and investigation of this. now is a moment, though, we have seen them sort of down play the desire to do investigating into the trump case of this, but now is a moment we'll have the opportunity to ask as lawmakers come back to town on the house side, if it they are going to be willing to look into the mike pence situation with the same fur investigator they want theed to look into president biden.

>> joyce, i want to ask you about the legal issue here. we already have two special counsels, one looking into former president trump and another looking into president biden. does this mean there's a third special counsel on the way at this point? because in the words of merrick garland, these are extraordinary circumstances. >> they are extraordinary. this environment is complicated by the doj's decision to aspoint a special counsel for the joe biden matter. it looked like that was done out of concerns over public perception. doj want thes to be perceived by the public as acting fairly. but the special counsel regulations say the attorney general should only appoint a special counsel if it appears that there's a criminal matter to be investigated. and that's at the crux of this matter. at least as far as we know publicly, there's no indication

biden behaved in a criminal way. it typically requires an element of llness or knowledge. so far the biden team has tainted biden had know idea the documents were there. that situation looks very much like mike pence's. the challenge the attorney general faces will be treating the biden and the pence situations identically it might seem logical to have one special counsel to investigate those together, but there's a political twist, which is that the special counsel, who has been appointed to investigate biden, is a former republican u.s. attorney. one would think pence should be investigated by a the democratic official, perhaps another u.s. attorney. it's likely to get more complicated as this continues. >> u.s. attorney in maryland who was appointed by former president trump, as you speak about robert hur and that situation.

i want to bring in justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. reporting with the latest on this, it seems like classified documents now all of a sudden are showing up all over the place. this has become photoer for the late night kmeed yans. are they expressing safety of secrets? >> absolutely. the intelligence community and the justice department as evidenced by the fact that they note that the doj baically requested special handling. they took immediate access rather than having them sent to the national archives. that's how seriously they are viewing what appears to be an epidemic of classified information being stored in the wrongs places. but that said, two things. one, everybody knows that there's massive overclassification in the u.s. government. and when you talk to people who worked in white houses, they are not surprised by this at all. if you go back in recent history, there are many examples

of current and former government officials taking or intentionally classified documents home. there was a diplomat based in pakistan back in 2016 who was investigated by the fbi. they thought she was a spy. she wasn't. they found classified documents in her home. she was not charged with that because it ended up being a simple mistake. then you had the attorney general back in the bush administration in 2008 who was found to have mishandled classified documents. he took very sensitive notes about nsa programs to his home and stored them in his home. he was not charged. but obviously, this phenomenon has been with us, but the frequency is, the trend of recent officials having classified documents in their homes suggest we have a big problem on our hands. there's not a good accounting for the nation's secrets. >> you want to bring in michael

moore. michael, give us a sense. what is the next step in an investigation by the fbi in a case like this? do they pursue searches if we don't know how many properties the former vice president has? do they pursue additional searches for boxes of documents that they are is reviewing at this time? >> i'm glad to be with all of you. i think it's likely they will maybe do some searches and reach an agreement with the former vice president's team to go out and double check to make sure there are no other documents there. this is a good lesson. when you spend your time throwing darts at people, you're likely to get poked yourself. we do have a problem with overclassification. there's no way they can do their jobs if they have to run to a secret room. they need access to them. i appreciated the comments about

perception. i do think we're dealing with perception opposed to looking for ways to prevent this and fix it going down the road. worried about whether or not we're going to have three special counsels ask we may at the end of the day. but it's a very different scenario when you look at the biden situation and the pence situation, at least what we know now, and the trump situation, and that is there has not been the repeated request for documents to be returned. there's not been efforts to obstruct or make statements about whether or not there were other documents existing in the biden and pence homes. that's very different situation than mar-a-lago. it may have neutralized the prosecutions in these cases. we ought to look for a way to move forward maing sure that we have an acceptable way to deal with protecting national security in the same time recognizing the people who were in position as the president and

vice president. so it's a big mess politically from a legal side, i don't see much jeopardy. to pence and biden, it maybe the department has to play it tout to appear to be even handed through the three cases. >> it certainly does distill the cases between pence and biden. moments ago, i hope our panelists stay with us if they can, we just heard from the republican senator lindsey graham, who was just note i if ied about the discovery of documents at the private home of former vice president mike pence. here's part of what senator graham said moments ago. take a listen. wait, i'm told we don't have the sound. i'll read it to you. he says, what became a political problem you know for republicans is now a national security problem for our country. he adds, we need to find out what happened. you have trump, you have pence, you have biden, the only thing i

think you'll find at my house a bunch of chik phil lay bags on the floor. i don't know how this happened. we need to get to the bottom of it. i want to go back to kelly o'donnell, who covers the white house with me these days. you spent years covering the hill as well. and classified documents, this is not shotgun that we have heard about being talked in the loosy goosy way as they are right now where they seem to be showing up all over the place. they were showing up after a search and then scattered on the ground by the fbi for their evidentiary pictures to be taken place. for president biden they were found in his garage, where he parks his corvette. now for the former vice president, mike pence, who said only a matter of weeks ago he didn't take any classified documents with him in an interview he did. now it's revealed he did have documents with him. this really changes the conversation a as senator graham says, to a national security one as much as anything else. >> reporter: there's also the

issue of just sort of follow the documents. what happens when a president or vice president lees leaves office. there's a transition period for outgoing. we think of transition as the people coming in. there's a formal process going out as well. and so the former vice president mike pence who you have had a transition apparatus that would move his goods and move his personal effects. based on a quick search appear to purchase this indiana home several months after leaving office. he resided at the official residence of the vice president during his term of office here. prior to that his residence was the governor's mansion. he and his wife bought this home. there was a period of time, a gap between taking possession of their new home and leaving office. where were documents and things in the in between time? were they this storage, that kind of thing. that will be one of the questions that will be assessed here. and then in all of these cases,

what are the documents themselves and do they tell us something about the threat level, if they were observed by anyone without classification, part mission. and does it tell us anything about why these officials might have wanted to retain them if there was knowledge about retention. for example, in former president trump's case, he talked about wanting to keep the kim jong-un letters as a personal souvenir. we don't know the contents. we don't know the contents of what the pence papers included, what topics, how sensitive are these matters. that plays into this as well. certainly on capitol hill, the typical way we see senators, members of congress and staffers who have any ability to interface with this material is they go into a skiff, a room where there isn't the penetration of cell phone electronic surveillance and that kind of of thing. they view documents in a room and they can't take them out.

when you are a principle in the level of president and vice president, things are a bit more mobile we see that might be a problem here. >> thank you all. another major headline we're watching this day. california mourning multiple mass shootings. political leaders working to comfort those folks that they represent and one another. >> we're still reeling from one. i was there consoling my colleague who is represent those areas. the next thing i know, they are consoling he. >> we're going to get latest from half smz moon bay and monterey park we'll also speak with another state representative who found out about the littest shooting in his own district after attending a vigil for a separate one. plus the courthouse in the spotlight today. the final report from the 2020 election interference investigation there become

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as california mourns the third mass shooting in that state in as many days, new details are coming in within the last few minutes regarding what police are describing as a case of workplace violence. a 66-year-old mush rool farmer accused of targeting other workers at a pair of nurseries. seven people are dead. another person injured is out of surgery. these two shootings in broad daylight about a mile apart in front of children and families who lived on the farms. the moment caught on this video from the parking lot outside a sheriffs station where officers found him inside his car. jake ward has been covering this for us.

we both know half moon bay is a place people would go to pick their pumpkins. now this community is in mourning. the latest to suffer the violence caused by guns. what is the latest we're hearing? >> reporter: at this hour, officials are saying that al the hoetive isn't clear, it's a workplace dispute. the alleged shooter worked here at the mushroom farm. yesterday afternoon this was the site of the first shooting. he came here and allegedly shot five people, killing four of them and drove himself a mile away killing three more at a second location before driving to that substation.

it was puchased legally and although they knew him as a community member and a neighbor, they were aware of him. they had been in touch with him in the past because this is such a small town, there was no indication that he was capable of this kind of violence ask he had no word suggesting any of this. the district attorney says this county has never seen a shooting this large, this many victims in one place before. this is an historic event, which make this all the more horrifying. this is a community you come with your kids. i go surfing here. i come with my family to buy shrubs from the nursery. this is the kind of environment you go to get away from it all. the 25 people living here at the time had to bear twons this incredibly horrible event. ask then were advocate waited to a shelter where they had to wait in anguish to find out whether their coworkers and family may have been among the victims. we know there is one woman and seven men involved. a mix of latino and asian farm

workers. they may have all been coworkers, but the tale end of this horrible storm season, which basically shut down agricultural activity in the region to have that capped by this historic piece of just senseless violence has this small community reeling here. >> just the latest community to deal with this surge in gun violence. jake ward, thank you. we want to turn to monterey park, where an 11th person has died following saturday night ice shooting. it happened at a dance hall, a tragedy that could have been a lot worse if not for the actions of the front desk clerk at a second hall. nbc news obtained this exclusive video. it shows brandon struggling with the 72-year-old gunman, who we know was armed with a semiautomatic assault weapon. that's illegal under california law capable of firing roughly

1,000 rounds in a single minute. brandon spoke to our colleague lester holt about the moment he finally got the gun away and confronted the suspect. >> he was contemplating for a moment like he wanted to take the gun away, he wanted to fight for it. he wanted to stick his life on it. and this is when i realized i would have to shoot him if he dried it. >> were you repaired to shoot him? >> i was not prepared. but i think i would have if he was trying to take the weapon away. >> erin mclaughlin is in monterey park for us standing in front of the dance hall a place of celebration on the lunar new year turned to a place of tragedy. what more are we learning about the suspect and the kind of arsenal he had been able to gather up for himself? >> reporter: hey, peter. the authorities have searched

his home, which is about 80 miles from where the attack took place, where i'm standing now. 80 miles to the east in a town called they searched his home they found a firearm and hundreds of rounds of ammunition ask home made suppressors. now according to the police weeks ago, the suspect approached the police department or had a whole raft of allegations against family members ranging from fraud to poison. he had told the police he was going to return with documents to back up his allegations. of course, he never returned to that police department to substantiate those allegations. all of this part of an ongoing investigation at the heart of it really is a motive. authorities have yet to establish that, although multiple sources say they so far

have ruled out terror or hate. this is looking like it was an attack motivated by a personal nature of his ex-wife telling cnn she met him at the dance studio behind me. another friend telling "the new york times" he was an instructor at this dance studio years ago. so it looks like he had a personal connection to this particular location. meanwhile, authorities today revealing the names of all 11 vitims this their 50s, 60s and 70s. >> erin mclaughlin on the ground for us in california, thank you. already legislators this string of mass shootings underscores what is an uncomfortable and painful reality. that their state has done all it can to stop gun violence, but it's not working against these types of attacks. despite the president's new call for an assault weapons ban,

federal action is certainly not likely any time soon. you want to bring in democratic assemblyman mark berman. he represents half moon bay in the state legislature. my condone doe lenses to those in jury community. i spent a ton of time in half moon bay outside of san francisco. you had just left a vigil for the victims of monterey park when you heard about shooting. can you explain what that moment was like for you when it seemed to distant and it was in your backyard. >> thank you, peter. it was a moment of disbelief. i was standing on the steps of the capitol having a vigil mourning the deaths of the victims. and you hate to admit it, but i was thinking to myself i was starting to feel myself desensitized to mass shootings. because they are happening so often. and then i got back to the office and not five minutes later, learned there was a mass shooting much closer to home in

half-moon bay in my district. and heedly do everything we can to support the community. but it's hard to believe that something so tragic and senseless could happen in such a beautiful place. >> i want to ask you about your community and the investigation going on right now. this appears to be a workplace volence, he targeted a place where he had or work now or formerly worked. do we have any better specific understanding of what it was that caused him to attack those? >> i don't have any information that i don't have -- it's important to note they have workplace disagreements all over the world. the instance that your reporters were talking about, they have relationship disagreements and disagreements with people at

dance halls all over the world. why is that? and what more can we do to make sure that like the rest of the world, we reduce the amount of senseless gun death in america and here in california. >> you're right. so sadly it's where these disputes are resolved with the weapon. i want to read for you the way "the washington post" described california's gun laws. they write, it's home to mandatory waiting periods and background checks for firearms aur which is as. it's one of eight states plus d.c. with such a law. in 2016 it became one of the first states to enact a red flag law. it looks like california is doing anything for everybody who is looking for tough gun restrictions to exist, they are doing it all right now. it's not enough to change this. what will change this? >> i do want the to be clear about one thing.

the smart and strong gun violence prevention laws are saving lives. and we have much less gun death in california than the average state in america. >> that's a fair point. >> if you look at the numbers, we save 1,800 to 2,000 lives a year based on the average state because we have such smart gun laws in california. but you're also right this isn't stopping all of the gun deaths. so i'm a member of the gun violence working group in the legislature and we're going to keep on researching ideas and talking with -- >> i think we lost him there making important points about californias's efforts to combat gun violence. and the government democratic governor very passion that the about this effort as well. thank you for making time.

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. we're back live. you're watching msnbc. at this minute the political world is focused on this courthouse in fullton county, georgia, where the da says charging decision are eminent. this is about the special grand jury investigation of a possible criminal interference in the 2020 election by former president trump and his allies. he's asking a judge not to release the grand jury's final report. you will remember na dozens of witnesses and staff testifying before the grand jury incluing rudy giuliani and senator lindsey graham. one person they did not hear from is trump's lawyers. he was never subpoenaed nor asked to come in voluntarily. so will the report ever be released to the public? blayne alexander is live at the

courthouse for us. >> that 90-minute hearing, more than 90 minutes actually is just now wrapping up. the judge is bringing it to a close, but not to the extraordinary nature of the fact we're talking about a special purpose grand jury is not something that happens often. that's why we're seeing illegal maneuvering of how to handle the report. what we did hear is a very strong argument from the da's office saying that they believe it would be premature and irresponsible for that report to be made public at this time. what's notable is the da says they are not go to oppose to they just say they don't want it released right now. eventually it will be made public, but i thapt to wait

until she said decisions are nem innocent. they want to wait for a decision on what charges will be filed, who will be charged and she's announced that publicly before that report is made public. now for the other side, we heard from a coalition of media organizations. their attorney says that it goes to the heart of public trust this the courts. something like this should be transparent. it should be made public and they even point to the fact that the special grand jury, the 23 people who heard this and prepared this report want it to be made public themselves. here's a little bit of the da's argument that she made a couple hours ago. take a look. >> we want to make sure that everyone is treated fairly. we think for future defendants to be treated fairly is not appropriate at this time to have this report released. >> reporter: a couple other things that came from the courtroom today. the judge says that if he does make a decision to release this, he's not just going to throw it

out. there's going to be notice before it actually is made public. he gives a nod to the extraordinary public interest and it's not just here in the state of georgia, but around the country, even around the world. we learned a few things, one that stood out to me. the steps that have been taken to ensure this doesn't leak. the judge said he hand delivered a copy of this report to the da's office personally. he says as far as he knows, that's the only copy that's in circulation. it wasn't a given digitally or e-mailed over, but just handed over and she's the soul proprietor of that and will be sometime before it's in the clerk's hands. it goes to show how many people want to get their ands on it and the steps to make sure it doesn't happen. >> understand why it would not want that report to be out. s it's the road map to her case before she's indicted. i want to get to michael on this. we know the grand jury voted to make the report public. do you expect that to happen here? tough imagine there could be

significant redactions. what are the reasons to keep it sealed? >> i think the da is right in this case. remember that the report is just a recommendation from the special grand jury. they are not issuing an indictment. they subpoenaed a lot of witnesses. they looked at a lot of documents and one of the reasons that you keep grand jury proceedings secret is so that you know really solely the representation or cause problems for those not being charged. so they may have made 15 people. the da may lock at it say i have applied the facts and the law and don't think i can charge five people some of their thams are out there as it they have done something wrong. her move is the right thing. also the argument is well placed that it is impactful. this decision will be impactful in cases going forward. the whole argument has been made

all along that trump is thot above the law, nobody is above the law, people need to be treated equally under the law. if something released in the report is not what happens this other case. we don't have special purpose grand juries in other cases. so doing things to make this go along with the norm like we have the open records act that says when investigative notes can be let out. we have specifics on grand jury information this is the right move. and the decision will be likely to give the da some time to do what she needs to do. if he decides to release it, had he will redact it a great deal. then you'll see the appellate courts take hold of it and who knows what will happen. >> let me ask you about former president trump and his role here. that's what so many eyes are focused on. the former president's legal team put out a statement, their first so far where they said they would not be present for the hearing today. they have not been involved in the process. we know the former president didn't testify before the grand

jury. is it possible that he would not have been subpoenaed? would they subpoena a target? are they less likely not to subpoena a target? would they not want him to speak. what indications that we never heard from former president trump or never did? >> i don't think there's any doubt he was a target or subject of the inquiry. from the tape recording on, that's been clear. my guess is she was sort of following traditional doj rules, even though she's a state prosecutor. you don't put somebody in a position of just having to be put on their own stage, putting on a show in front of a grand jury as to to gain an advantage that this person has claimed the fifth. so she maybe protected in her case because it's very likely, i expect you'll see a motion of transfer in he's indicted. you'll see a motion by his statement transferring to the federal court, she wants to be

this that construct of rules and practices. >> moouk the moore, we appreciate your perspective on this issue. thank you. we're watching that ticketmaster debacle. today's senate hearing and how it could affect everybody the next time you want to go to a concert is. that's live next on msnbc. go to concert is that's le ivnext on msnbc. hey, thanks for helping me out. of course. you can easily get helpful customer service over the phone or on the progressive app pretty much anywhere. like at the coffee shop, at the park, or on the moon. just kidding. it's another coffee shop. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv

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listen, i'm done settling. because this is my secret. i put it on once, no more touch ups! secret had ph balancing minerals; and it helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. so pull it in close. secret works. anybody who has ever tried to get concert tickets online, you know the pain. long weights times and the insane high prices. tickets that can sell out in a snap. today the people who run that system will be forced to answer publicly. senate judiciary committee just wrapped up a hearing after the concert debacle over taylor swift's tickets. long wait times, technical issues forcing ticketmaster to

cancel sales leaving thousands of fans, a lot emotional, to try to shake it off. >> i didn't get any tickets. >> i didn't get tickets to the taylor swift concert and i waited in line for like six hours. >> you ski it impact it had on so many young people and others. let's bring in savannah sellers and tan danny cevallos. what did the key players say? >> reporter: i period what you did there with that shake it off. but let me raise you, many witnesses today now all too well the frustrations of dealing with ticketmaster. that is what we heard in the hearing. one of them was the ceo of seat geek, another platform for ticket sales. they said that there should be this robust marketplace for consumers to make choices but it

is not because of live nation ticketmaster. and another witness in that hearing today, clyde lawrence of his band, he gave a very specific example of the fact that ticket can go up for sale, let's say they want to sell it for $30 as the singer, but then ticketmaster put as $12 fee on is and ultimately they just make $6 on it. and live nation did apologize directly to taylor swift saying that they know they need to do better. but listen to some of the judiciary committee members who were there asking those questions. take a listen. >> this is all a definition of monopoly because live nation is so powerful that it doesn't even need to exert pressure. it doesn't need to threaten because people just fall in line. >> i want to congratulate and

thank you for a stunning achievement. you have brought together republicans and democrats in an absolutely unified cause. >> reporter: that part was true. and senator blumenthal got into those puns with us, he said he respectfully suggests that ticketmaster looks in the mirror and says i'm the problem, it is me, of course a reference to swift's anti-hero. >> and let's break down what amy klobuchar said. she said this is in effect of definition of a monopoly. is it and what can lawmakers realistically do? >> correspond to the ftc, a monopoly is any firm that controls as much as 50% of the market share in that industry. and reportedly ticketmaster and live nation entertainment controls up to 70% of the industry. so even under the ftc standards, it seems like quite a bit more than 50%. and under antitrust law, the doj

can seek to question or take a second look at this merger between live nation and ticketmaster. the strange thing is this is the same merger that doj approved of 12 years ago in 2010. they can take a second look at it, but a good defense for ticketmaster may be the same defense facebook used when doj or when they were under government scrutiny which is hey, you approved us, you sat on your hands too long, you can't complain about it now. >> does this change the experience for those consumers? we saw a couple them, young women who were devastated had they couldn't get tickets to a concert that they have been waiting for years for, what happens for them? >> today, nothing. possibly in the future if this is a monopoly and if it is broken up, then that may lead to competition and that is essential. reportedly ticketmaster not only controls the primary market, but

it has considerable control apparently over the secondary market. the resale of these tickets. so whenever you have a monopoly, you don't have elastic prices, the official sets the price and it is not based on demand and not based on efficiency. so these consumers who were denied tickets can probably blame inefficiency in the market because ticketmaster and live nation can have any system they want for giving out tickets. who is going to stop them? at least that is the argument of opponents to the idea of a monopoly by ticketmaster/live nation entertainment. >> danny, that will do it for us. thanks for joining us. ryan nobles picks up the coverage next. yirks

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