right now on "andrea mitchell reports," president biden under pressure from germany, switching gears and agrees to send advanced american tanks to ukraine. a long-range deployment aimed at president zelenskyy gain leverage over russia and retake crimea. this hour, the mishandled classified documents controversy spreading to former vice president mike pence's home in indiana. the legal and political fallout just ahead. what about other former presidents and vice presidents? is speaker mccarthy retaliating

against top democrats for leading the trump impeachment by kicking them off the house intelligence committee while ignoring george santos' campaign financial possible violations and false resume? we will have the latest tit for tat from capitol hill. good day, i'm andrea mitchell in washington. president biden is about to announce a major shift in his policy for arming ukraine. he is sending advanced u.s. tanks that the pentagon has been insisting cannot be properly maintained on the battlefield. what's changed? we see the president walking into the roosevelt room. >> 11 months since russia's invasion of ukraine. 11 months in which ukrainian people have showed putin and the world the full force of their courage and the determination to live free. through every single step of

this horrific war, the american people have been strong and unwavering in their support. democrats and republicans in congress have stood together. the united states worked with our allies and partners around the world to make sure the ukrainian people are in the strongest possible position to defend their nation, their families and against the brutal -- the truly brutal aggression of russia. i haven't seen the likes of this in a long time. the united states and europe are fully united. this morning i had a long conversation with our nato allies. the german chancellor, the french president, the prime minister of uk and the italian prime minister. to continue our close coordination and our full support of ukraine, because you all know i've been saying this for a long time, the expectation on the part of russia is we will break up, we will not stay

united. but we are fully, totally united. with spring approaching, ukrainian forces are working to defend the territory they hold and preparing for counteroffensives to liberate their land. they need to counter russia's tactics and strategy on the battlefield in the very near term. they need to prove their ability to maneuver in open terrain. they need an enduring capability to deter and defend against russian aggression over the long-term. the secretary of state and the secretary of the -- of the military behind me are -- they have been deeply, deeply involved in this whole effort. armored capability, as general austin will tell you, has been critical. that's why the united states has committed hundreds of armored fighting vehicles to date, including more than 500 as part of the assistance package we announced last friday.

today, i am announcing that the united states will be sending 31 abram tanks to ukraine. the equivalent of one battalion. they are most capable tanks in the world. they are extremely complex to operate and maintain. we are giving ukraine the parts and equipment necessary to effectively sustain these tanks on the battlefield. we will begin to train ukrainian troops on these issues of sustainment, logistics and maintenance as soon as possible. delivering these tanks will take time. time that we will see we will use to make sure the ukrainians are fully prepared to integrate them into their defenses. we are closely coordinated with our allies. the american contribution will be joined by an additional announcement, including that

will be ready and available and more easily integrated for use in the battlefield in the coming weeks and months from other countries. i'm grateful to the chancellor for providing german leopard 2 tanks and will lead an effort to organize the european contribution of two tank battalions for ukraine. i want to thank the chancellor for his leadership and commitment to our collective efforts to support ukraine. germany has really stepped up. the chancellor has been a strong, strong voice for unity, a close friend and for the level of effort we're going to continue. supporting ukraine's ability to fight off russian aggression to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity is a worldwide commitment. not just -- it's a worldwide commitment. last week, germany and secretary austin conconvened a contact gr. it's 50 nations, each making

significant contributions of their own to ukraine's integrity. each fully committed to making ukraine remain strong and independent and able to defend itself. i want to thank every member of that coalition for continuing to step up. uk recently announced that it is donating challenger 2 tanks to ukraine. france is contributing amx 10s, armored fighting vehicles. in addition to the leopard tanks, germany, like the united states -- germany is sending a patriot missile battery. the netherlands is donating a patriot missile and launchers. france, canada, uk, slovakia, norway and others have donated critical air defense systems to help secure ukrainian skies and save the lives of innocent civilians who are literally the target of russia's aggression. poland is sending armored vehicles.

sweden is donated infantry fighting vehicles. italy is giving artillery. denmark and estonia are sending howitzers. lithuania is providing anti-aircraft guns. finland announced its largest package of security assistance to date. i was asked a while ago what did i think was going to happen, and i said let putin know, he thought he was going to end up with europe. he has the nato-ization of europe. we sent more than 3,000 armored vehicles, more than 8,000 artillery systems, more than 2 million rounds of artillery and ammunition and more than 50 advanced multi-launch rocket systems. anti-shipment air defense systems. all to help counter ukraine's brutal aggression that's happening because of russia. today's announcement builds on the hard work and commitment

from countries around the world led by the united states of america to help ukraine defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity. that's what this is about. helping ukraine defend and protect ukrainian land. it's not an offensive threat to russia. there's no offensive threat to russia. if russia troops return to russia, they will be where they belong. this war would be over today. that's what we all want, an end to this war. in just and lasting terms. our teams do not permit one nation -- we're not going to allow one nation to steal a neighbor's territory by force. our terms preserve russia -- ukraine's sovereignty andintegr. these are the terms we all signed up for. 143 nations voted for in the u.n. general assembly last october.

the united states, standing shoulder to shoulder with allies and partners, is going to do all we can to support ukraine. putin expected europe and the united states to weaken our resolve. he expected our support for ukraine to crumble with time. he was wrong. he was wrong. he was wrong from the beginning. he continues to be wrong. we are united. america's united and so is the world. we approach the one-year mark as we do of the russia full scale invasion of ukraine, we remain unit and determined as ever. these tanks are evidence of our commitment to ukraine and our confidence in the skill of the ukrainian forces. as i told president zelenskyy when he was here -- today is his birthday, by the way. i said, we are with you for as long as it takes. ukrainians are fighting an age-old battle against aggression and domination.

it's a battle americans have fought time and again. it's a battle we will make sure the ukrainians are well-equipped to fight as well. this is about freedom, freedom for ukraine, freedom everywhere. that's about the kind of world we want to live in, the world we want to leave to our children. may god protect the brave ukrainian defenders of their country and keep the flame of liberty burning as brightly as we can. thank you. >> why are you taking this decision now? did germany force you to change your mind on sending tanks? >> germany didn't force me to change my mind. we wanted to make sure we were all together. that's what we were going to do all along. that's what we're doing right now. >> any response to the pence disclosures of classified documents? >> are the searches of your homes completed? >> with the president ignoring a question about the classified document disclosures by vice president -- former vice president pence, the president announcing he has decided to

send these high-tech abrams tanks, the american tanks, the best in the world, sending these tanks to ukraine to help them defend themselves against russia, saying that this is not an offensive against russia. u.s. officials tell us this will enable ukraine to retake its territory. a senior u.s. official telling us that means all of its territory. that means ccrimea. joining me is john kirby, coordinator for strategic communication within the national security council. why this decision now? the president ignored that question. a week ago we had secretary austin saying that the abrams tanks were not feasible, not sustainable for the battlefield in ukraine. they take jet fuel. they require so much training,

maintenance. now you are sending them. they won't get there immediately. but you are sending them. but this does clear the way for germany to send its leopard 2 tanks, which are much more battlefield ready, and give a green light to poland and finland and spain and others who have those tanks nearby in europe. >> you are asking two questions, why now and then what these past comments that were made about the abrams tanks. let me take the first one. you've got conditions on the ground which continue to change. this war has changed in its size and scale and scope since 11 months ago. it continues to change. we expect that the fighting in the winter will continue. there's going to be renewed fighting. the russians will try to go on the offense in the spring. we really want to make sure we are preparing the ukrainians for those offensive operations by the russians, but also to prepare them for their own offensive if they want to go on

the offense. the fighting we are seeing and the fighting that we would expect to see come spring is really reliant on what we call combined arms maneuver. a fancy way of saying, being able to fight effectively in open terrain, as you heard the president talk about. tanks are a key part of that. we never took tank off the table. we did speak honestly about some of the challenges that would come with abrams tanks. they are the most sophisticated in the world, as you noted. they require a pretty hefty supply chain. they will require some unique maintenance and operational requirements on the ukrainians, which is why we want to make sure we get them trained up. that training will start very soon. then the tanks will follow. the idea is really to show we have a long-term commitment to the kinds of fighting we think the ukrainians are going to be doing. >> there is now some reporting out of ukraine that their defense minister will ask for f-16s. they have been asking for fighter jets. is that the next step? >> we don't blame president zelenskyy for continuing to seek advanced capabilities and systems.

as the president noted, his country is under attack, unprovoked attack. i don't have any announcements on other systems today. we understand president zelenskyy wants as much capability as possible. >> as you point out, this has been a changing war. you have made different decisions as the battlefield has changed. >> that's right. >> let's talk about the goal here. the president said the goal was to be defensive, not offensive. the goal is also, as you have acknowledged, to have the offensive capability to push back against russia and to retake russian territory. explain what you mean by retake -- i should say, ukrainian territory that has been taken by russia. does that mean just the territory since february 24th of last year or does that go back to 2014, including crimea? >> from the very beginning, 11 months ago, and even beyond that, andrea. we have always said and our policy has always been we want

ukraine's internationally recognized borders to be observed by russia. we want all of ukraine -- ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity to be respected. we want them to be able to have control over their territory again. how and when they do that, what size and scale and what time line, that's really up to president zelenskyy and his military leaders. we're not dictating that to him. crimea is ukraine. we don't recognize the illegal russian annexation of crimea. we don't recognize any of the russian occupied territory in ukraine as russian territory. it's ukrainian territory. they have the right to reclaim that territory. again, they also have the right to do it on their own terms and in their own time line. >> how long will it take to get these tanks to ukraine? to get the training and the supply chain, the fuel. >> given that we are procuring new tanks for ukraine, that's the process by which we are getting these to them, it's

going to take many months before the tanks are actually ready to be transferred into ukraine. we're going to take great advantage of that time by getting the training for the ukrainians started very soon. the pentagon is working through the time line on that. i don't have a date on the calendar to predict when it's going to start. it's going to start soon. it's going to take time as well to learn how to operate these tanks, because they are so sophisticated, to maintain them to keep them in the field. also, to develop the logistics, supply chain as we were talking about earlier, to make sure the parts can flow. that's the other thing that the president announced. we will be able to give ukraine the parts to keep them going. they don't have ability to manufacture that inside ukraine. very complex system. it's going to require maintenance. we learned that in our own army. >> this is what i have been describing as a high-stakes game of diplomatic chicken with germany. the president had two calls we know of with the chancellor.

just last week in germany, the joint chiefs chair said the abrams were not compatible, sustainable on the battlefield. now they are. this was to maintain unity and get germany to agree to send their tanks, because they were insisting they wouldn't send theirs, which are available readily and not as difficult to maintain, if we wouldn't send a couple of ours, right? >> i think what you see out of this decision today -- the president alluded to that in his remarks -- is it shows how unified, how resolved the international community is. this shows the unity behind that. every nation has to make sovereign decisions for themselves. we said all along -- i think i mentioned this to you in recent weeks -- germany has to work through their own system, their own process. they have to make their own decisions. germany has stepped up. we talk about how our capabilities have evolved. the things we have been providing ukraine have changed

over time. the same can be said of germany. they started out in a more modest way. they have been willing to advance forward much more sophisticated weapons and systems to ukraine. these are sovereign decisions that everybody has to make. we understand that. we respect that. today really should be an observance, a celebration of the unity that very much exists in the transatlantic community to helping ukraine. >> one more question about the classified documents. the president did not want to answer that question. now that this has expanded to former vice president pence's home in indiana, is the white house considering or implementing new protocols for the handling of classified documents throughout the administration, but mainly on the campus of the white house? >> there are in place very stringent, as you might expect, regulations and guidelines for how to -- >> but they were -- with all due respect, they were in place. in my experience, they were in place for decades.

now we are seeing there were gaps on both sides. i'm not trying to equate what president biden did when he discovered it or vice president pence with a completely different situation with former president trump, who refused to turn them over and delayed for more than a year and ignored subpoenas. i'm not equating that. i'm saying there's a problem. >> i don't -- >> how are you addressing it? >> i don't have any changes to protocols to speak to today. the protocols are always reviewed and updated as needed. i'm not aware of any updates in light of recent events. we all take the treatment of classified material very seriously here on the white house campus and elsewhere. we're going to continue that vigilance going forward. we know. we are protecting the nation's secrets, and we have to take that very seriously. >> john kirby, we really appreciate you coming out and clarifying and explaining some

of the background and context for this today. >> yes, ma'am. joining us now, raf sanchez in kharkiv, barry mccaffrey and ben rhodes. raf, what's the reaction from kyiv? >> reporter: andreandrea, the ukraines are thrilled but they are also relieved this game of diplomatic chicken has come to an end. there has been enormous frustration here in ukraine, among officials and just ordinary people at what they have seen as the western alliance going in circles on this issue of tanks. we heard from president zelenskyy a little while ago. this was after the chancellor made his announcement about german tanks but before president biden spoke. zelenskyy said he was deeply grateful for these tanks being supplied to ukraine. he said the key question is the one that you put to john kirby just now. how soon can these tanks be on

the battlefield here in eastern ukraine? kirby told you, it would be many months in the case of the american tanks. i think that shows that this decision to send abrams tanks is as much about diplomacy as it is about the battlefield. because this does clear the way for germany to send its own leopard 2s, other nato allies in europe to send theirs. there are some 2,000 leopards here in europe deployed by militaries here. it is very likely that those will be the first tanks to actually get to the battlefield. ukraine hopes they will get here in time to head off a potential russian offensive, possibly in the coming weeks. >> raf sanchez, thank you so much. stay safe there, of course. general mccaffrey, good to have you here today. you are an infantryman. you taught at west point, been on the battlefields. what haven't i asked? what am i missing here? >> well, look, president bidn

has a competent security team. these are some very experienced, smart people. we shouldn't confuse a political diplomatic argument with a military one. the entire effort here appropriately is to force germany to take a more aggressive role in participating in the defense of ukraine. the m1 tank is readily available within a week. we have hundreds of them in europe now, and can put them in the theater very rapidly. it goes 265 miles on a single fuel tank. it goes 45 miles an hour. it kills people in the dark at 3,000 meters. there are 1,100 m1 tanks with the egyptians. of course, the ukrainians with

civilian contractor support can maintain these abrams. they're not classified. we could send one to russia rapped in a red bow. they couldn't manufacture one in ten years. a lot of this -- one battalion is inconsequential on this battlefield. they need an armored division in short order before the spring. we could do that in short order. ukrainian experienced tank crew can get fully qualified in 30 days. this is not complex machinery from an operator's perspective. again, there's a lot of diplomatic strange things going on. europe, with its massive economy, with its massive amount of military power, is

self-intimidated by mr. putin. >> let's just explain -- why is america, why is europe, why is nato so nervous about upsetting vladimir putin when if we give ukraine enough equipment quickly enough, they might have enough leverage to actually get putin to sit down and be serious and negotiate an end to this horrific war? >> i fully agree. it's not just tanks. all the argument is centered -- they are an important part of the ground combat team. but what the ukrainians also require is the ability to hurt russia badly from a military perspective in deep strike operations. they need missiles to get out there 300 kilometers. start pounding these people. it's hard to explain -- 14, i

think, challenger 2 tanks from the brits going to ukraine, this is inconsequential stuff from a military perspective. putin has intimidated the west partially with the threat of nuclear war. biden has to take that into account. >> we are refusing to give them the f-16s. >> i don't know. i think, again -- this war isn't going to change just with m1 tanks. the ukraiians need the ability to proud russia. to get the russian fleet at sea, which is killing ukrainian civilians. most of the russian effort now -- they have run out of ideas. they are digging in place. they are trying to pound civilian infrastructure and get the ukrainians to submit. break up the western alliance. biden has kept the western alliance together very effectively. remarkable progress. we gotta get off the dime and

give them the tools to destroy and unravel the russian army. we're not doing that yet. >> jump in here ben. you were deputy national security advisor. what should we be doing next? >> i think there was a three dimensional play here. general mccarry is right. i think what the administration wanted to do was to get the european tanks unlocked. it's the fact that those are german-manufactured tanks, so the other european allies that want to provide those weapon systems to ukraine need german approval. the chancellor didn't want to be out front by himself in making the announcement of the provision of the tanks. really, i think these abrams tanks are just unlocking a flow of leopard tanks that can get on the battlefield faster and hopefully be in place for spring offensives, either by russia or ukraine. at the same time, the u.s. is

trying to manage escalation risk with russia throughout this process. doesn't want to be providing heavy weapon systems and f-16s that the ukrainians could use to hit targets inside russia. as they have been doing throughout this war, they are calibrating the ukrainian needs and the ukrainian requests, the european appetite to provide more, and their own concerns about escalation risk with putin that could lead to something like a nato/russia exchange or the use of a nuclear weapon. we are continuing to be in this three dimension strategy between ukraine, managing escalation and trying to get the europeans to provide more so that it's not just the united states putting in a significant amount of weapons, which by the way, may be -- as general mccaffrey said, not decisive on the battlefield, but they are depleting u.s. stocks. it requires planning, training programs. i think they wanted to get that lined up. they wanted to be seen that the alliance is making major

announcements together. you heard president biden emphasizing that. he wanted to send a message politically to russia, ukraine and the rest of the world that there are no fractures in this alliance. we have seen a messy back and forth about tanks. they came to an agreement on it. >> that's what matters. very importantly as you point out, to president biden. nato unity. general barry mccaffrey, thank you. ben, stay with us. after the discovery that former vice president mike pence has joined the list of former officials who have taken classified documents home -- will merrick garland appoint another independent counsel to investigate? a broken system of controls and overclassification today. senate intelligence leaders are behind closed doors with the head of national intelligence for a meeting. they plan to raise some very tough questions from both parties. >> i kind of thought holy heck.

i do wonder, you know, how many other formers. >> what the hell is going on around here is my reaction. obviously, there's a systemic problem. two successive administrations from two different parties. joining me now, susan page, charlie sykes and a.b. stoddard and ben rhodes. susan, i want to remind our viewers what was said in december about handling classified documents when we knew only about the mar-a-lago search. i know you can't talk about the investigation into mar-a-lago. if somebody in the intelligence community took home classified documents and resisted turning them back, what would be the impact?

[ laughter ] >> please don't do that. >> how will she answer the question? my understand is that she is not prepared -- the intelligence community does not have that damage assessment of the mar-a-lago documents, the biden documents and certainly not the mike pence documents which just arrived by car, by truck, whatever, from indiana driven to washington to be turned over to doj just days ago. susan, this is a topic. they will ask her about it. she's got to be ready, about the systemic problem of over classification and sloppiness and lack of tracking these records. right? >> we are laughing because we don't want to cry. it's more serious than we

thought when we knew only about president trump taking documents and refusing to give them back. now we know there's a systemic problem, both administrations. they had protocols in place. they clearly didn't work. something needs to be fixed apart from the special counsels. the system of classification and protecting documents is something that has to be addressed. >> charlie, how much of this document revelation by mike pence is about getting any potential political land mines out of the way ahead of any 2024 run? >> he is just doing his duty. i don't think merrick garland has much of a choice about appointing a special counsel. susan is right. this is clearly a systemic problem. it's important to keep in mind the distinctions between the biden case, the trump case and the pence case. distinctions involving whether the documents were removed and retained intentionally and whether or not there was an effort to obstruct the

investigation. these are really fundamental and important distinctions. however from a political point of view, this muddies the water awfully badly. of course, it's a gold-plated what-about-ism for everybody. it's a bipartisan mess and mutually deployed destruction. who knows where this will go. >> ben, i want to read an official statement we received from president obama's office just yesterday. ben, i know you worked on president obama's book after he left office. can you give us a better idea of the process? is there an office in chicago that president obama would submit requests to if he wanted

a particular document, get them under control, then return them? take us behind the scenes. >> yeah. president obama has an office in d.c. and the nara office has a presence in d.c., if he wanted documents, you can put in a request and go and have a capacity to review that document. there's established protocol for this. it's not that complicated. an enormous volume of these documents are digitized. that's the other thing that's strange about paper documents going missing, because all the documents that are on paper are also digitized. if you wanted to have access to those documents after your presidency or vice presidency, there's a process for you to be able to get documents, and you can file requests based on a topic, on a date range. that's what digitalization should do for us in this case. i think as they look at reforms that can be made, i remember

during the years i was in the white house for eight years, a lot of the sensitive intelligence started to migrate from printed out documents to ipads. it may be that they need to cut down on paper flow, because this stuff is digitized, you can put it on a machine and you can know where that machine is. it has a signature. i'm sure that's one of the things that they might be considering is just cutting down on the pieces of paper that seem to be floating around. >> just to drill down on that for a moment, because we understand president biden reads things off an ipad, the presidential daily brief. the former president trump's daily brief was on an ipad. they would print big bullet points on paper, because he wasn't a big reader, isn't a big reader. it doesn't explain why there's paper around and why it's not tracked better. >> my experience, andrea, is they switch the presidential daily briefing which i received from paper to ipads.

they did not switch things like memos that are produced for the vice president or the president on any number of national security topics. there are still intelligence products, reports that come in printed form. the question is, how much do you migrate that kind of paper flow, including classified systems that print documents? we have classified printers as well as classified computers in the executive branch. i think the question that people are going to look at is, obviously with digitalized materials, again, you can know where that stuff is through a digital signature. i would expect that an area focus might be, people like to have paper, it's nice to print something out, but some of the stuff may get more digitalized. >> i want to clarify one thing. you know west wing so well. we are told the whole west wing is a skif. not the whole west wing but the president's office, vice president's office, national

security advisor's. is that the case? do you have -- obviously, the president reads things in the oval office. he doesn't go to another room. is that the distinction, that they get used to taking things home, taking things upstairs or to their offices, that other officials can't? >> yeah, absolutely. my office was a skif. i had a keypad on the door. i had a safe for documents. i could not take documents home with me. i never really thought about this. there was not a scenario in which i was supposed to walk out of the white house with a classified document in my bag. the vice president and the president, their residences are skifs. they can carry documents back there. the question is, what kind of documents were stored, memos intermingled with other documents and the memos had

classifications? vice presidents could go on trips and there's a trip summary and they may hold on to that to jog their memory. i don't know what the nature of the documents were that vice president biden at the time and vice president pence took with them or had with them at least in their residences. it's more complicated for them because their residences could store classified documents in a way the rest of us couldn't take things home. >> that explains so much. >> to remain the stickler that he is and do everything by the books is just entirely separate thinking than what the average

voter will consider. the more they learn, the more they think everything is over classified. these people's homes are skifs. it's not their fault when they -- they are all over the age of 60. they don't want to look in digitized files. they want to bring home paper and read them next to their books on their side table. whether they leave these buildings, they have classified documents stuck to the bottom of their shoes. this becomes politically a wash for everybody because of how rampant it is and systemic it is. obviously, the system needs to be reformed. that's up to experts. when you look at merrick garland, i think the voters would say, we can't afford another special counsel investigation into everybody thinking of running for president and might have been involved there an administration and have classified documents somewhere. obviously, the nature of the content of them could be

different and could be relevant to this question. it just seems from here that merrick garland is so fas tid ous --fastidious. >> this waters down the likelihood of a prosecution on this issue, the mar-a-lago issue of donald trump, even though there's so much obvious suspicion of obstruction, just because of the what-about-ism. the eject button. the new house speaker making good on his promise to evict several top democrats from the intelligence committee. the reasons and reaction comesing next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. ea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. doctor's office.

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on two committees. >> this has nothing to do with santos. santos is not on the intel committee. you know what? those voters elected schiff even though he lied. those voters elected swalwell, even though he lied to the american public, too. you know what? i will respect his voters, too. they will serve on committees. they will not serve on a place that has national security, because integrity matters to me. >> mccarthy named congresswoman marjorie taylor greene to a covid panel. remember, integrity matters to him. joining me is garrett haake. it looks like receipt tirec-- retribution. >> reporter: the information mccarthy is basing his decision on to kick them off intel was available to the last three speakers of the house, including

republicans boehner and ryan, who were perfectly comfortable with him continuing in that role. as for adam schiff, he argued the hypocrisy of mccarthy's decision grabs you by the throat. here is how he explained it. >> mr. mccarthy's rationalizations, justifications keep shifting. the cardinal sin appears to be that i led the impeachment of his master in mar-a-lago, for withholding hundreds of millions of dollars from ukraine, a nation that was at war with russia in order to extort that country into helping donald trump's re-election campaign. we proved those facts and got the first bipartisan vote in the senate in history to remove a president. he will do the former president's bidding. he is reliant on the former president. this is something the former president wants.

>> you saw congresswoman omar on the edge of the frame. mccarthy vowed to try to boot her off the house foreign affairs committee. he will need a vote of the house to do that. it's not clear he has the votes. >> there are new revelations about congressman george santos after claiming that he lent himself $700,000 to his own campaign to explain how he somehow came up with that money in the course of a campaign year. he amended his filing with the fec. tell us more about that. >> reporter: a longtime junkie of fec reports, i can't recall seeing anything like this. he said he had loaned himself almost $700,000 for his most recent campaign. that is more than half of the total amount of money that he brought in in the 2022 election cycle. in this latest filing, he basically changed the way these loans are described saying, yes, they are loans, but, they are not from him. where that money came from is going to be a significant focus

of investigators from the fec to the ethics committee to perhaps even federal law enforcement. it's going to be central to whether george santos remains in congress. an updated filing meant to clarify but really doing the opposite. we will see how far and where this new chapter goes. >> garrett, i want to share with our viewers another big red flag from politico. they examined his filings. he has a record number of filings of $199.99. one cent below the $200 limit where you have to declare an expense and explain it. that's a very suspicious filing. right? >> reporter: extremely unusual. i don't think nbc would take kindly to me filing my expenses that way. the fec is not going to look the other way from something like that. we will find out more in due time. yes, a very suspicious way of filing your campaign expenses. >> garrett, i can promise you

that would prompt an audit. >> reporter: i'm sure you are right. joining us now is a congresswoman born in ukraine. your reaction to president biden's decision to send those abrams tanks to ukraine that president zelenskyy is wanting. it will take a while. >> thank you for having me. as i said before, it's a good and positive move. as always, it takes a while. we had this discussion months ago. it will take some training. it will take some equipment. it will take a few months more. it's a very serious war. the only way we can stop this crazy situation and escalation of this war and be more agile and faster, and it takes too long to do things like that. it hurts our national interests and it hurts a lot of people

dying in the trenches. we have to really do a better job of being more proactive. >> some republicans, including kevin mccarthy, saying no more blank checks for ukraine. i want to ask you about -- first of all, the corruption crackdown that appears to be taking place. president zelenskyy's chief of staff, he says he is cracking down. what is your understanding of why this is happening? >> i think it's important for us to have oversight, no matter what we do. we have to learn from our mistakes. what even happened in afghanistan just recently. proper oversight to make sure that congress is well informed where the money is spent and the american people are very well informed. it's going to make sure that we have more long-term support of the efforts but also that the things going to the right place. we are dealing with very complicated politics, infiltration, a lot of incompetence.

a lot of things. there are a lot of great people dying for freedom. it's a responsibility to the american people and the ukrainian people to have this oversight. i pushed for it. i actually hope republicans will be delivering it and hope democrats will join us in that. >> switching gears. you have spoken out about kicking those democrats, schiff and swalwell, off the intelligence committee. speaker mccarthy has done that. why was it important for you to speak out? >> i want to tell you something. i certain on the judiciary committee. i was very upset what was done last congress without proper due process. we are trying people in the court of the public opinion. we are a country of the rule of law. proper due process and you are innocent until proven guilty. we cannot just turn around and do exactly the same thing. it's a hypocrisy. i will not be able to have credibility to argue in the judiciary committee again. i think it's important for us.

if kevin mccarthy has some concerns, we have an ethics committee. he needs to make his accusations -- people have to make their case. i'm not defending them. my opinions with them on a lot of issues are night and day. i want to defend the due process of this institution, because we are becoming like a theater full of actors in the circus. it's unacceptable. we have to govern for the people. it's not happening here. >> will you join the speaker if, as he says he will, he kicks in omar off the foreign relations committee? will you vote to kick her off of that her off that committee? sdwr i'm going to see what is happening. if he's not going to have a proper due process, i cannot support this. we'll see what the speaker is going to decide. there's a lot of bad blood and anger from speaker pelosi had done. but as i said, two wrongs don't

make a right. we should not be doing the same to destroy this institution. we should really in a bad shape, to be honest with you. >> i know you're speaking of the ethics committee and due process, but hasn't george santos already by all of the reporting and his acknowledged lies, hasn't he proved he is not worthy to be a member of congress? why wait for the ethics committee and how long it could take, years. he could serve a full term. >> i don't think it should take years, if we do things properly and fast. we should be able to handle this investigation much faster, but there's a lot of things were said and done. there's different evidence and you need to have people that are going to bring these accusations and you're going to have him be in front of them to make his case. they need to make recommendations for the rest of the congress because it's very serious. when we decide to kick someone out who was lekked by the people. i'm willing to do that, but i

need to see some real conclusion and everyone is entitled to due process, whether it's president trump, whether it's representative santos or president biden. no one is above the law. no one is below the law. we cannot have this. it's unacceptable. >> congresswoman, thank you so much. the georgia prosecutor today investigating donald trump's alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election said the decisions on whether to bring charges against multiple dependents are eminent. joining us now is the deputy national editor of the "washington post" and andrew wiesman, former senior member of the mueller robe. the da says these decisions are eminent. what does that tell you? she speaks of multidefendants. >> i think the word innocent is shotgun that everyone jumped on.

there's a real reason for her to act quickly. we are in this unusual position of watching the da say please do not make the report public yet. she said i'm not trying to say it should never be made public, but i'd like to make a decision first. so i think there's a lot of pressure on her to make a decision in some ways before the court rules and so she has that within her authority to bring charges quite quickly before the court gets involved in whether the report would be made public or not. when she brings charges, she made it clear her position on the report will likely change. that then the public will see it. so i think if there's anything to her word eminent, it was to underscore the fact that the court could rule against her eminently as well and so she can whittle that by bringing charges. i expect we're going to see

charges. we do know that the da is very much likes reco charges under georgia state law. that's something we can all anticipate. >> do you think donald trump could be involved? >> yes, i think that is the primary person. i think the open issue is how far down the chain it goes, whether it's going to involve mark meadows or lindsey graham or rudy giuliani. are there other people, state electors, who would be involved. i think the principle person as to whom we can see charges with the donald trump. >> and phil, mike pence is a likely 2024 presidential candidate. his former boss is now defending him writing on truth social after he acknowledged having those classified documents, mike pence is an innocent man. he never did anything knowingly dishon nest his life.

leave him alone. >> it's certainly a change of tone from what trump had been saying about pence over the last year. remember, pence broke with trump over january 6th and the aftermath. but it seems that trump is trying to come to pence's defense over these classified documents in part because it's so much worse when it comes to trump and the classified documents. he has vastly more documents with classified markings found at mar-a-lago than the seem to be been found at pence's home. and in addition, pence is being forthcoming in cooperating with the fbi handing these documents over, disclosing it publicly. those are steps that trump and his team did not take last year, which was one of the reasons why there's a special counsel investigation into trump's handling of the documents. >> as mike pence's involvement make it almost inevitable we'll see a third special counsel given the equivalency that

merrick garland sees on the committee chair? >> i don't know. one of the things he could do is have an interim step in the way he did with president biden. he can have a preliminary review. it's possible that preliminary review could lead to someone saying there's no evidence whatsoever of intent. if you have no evidence of intent, you have no crime to investigate. so it's not -- there's a way to do some preliminary look and decide not to because we are in a very dangerous period where you can't have a special counsel for each and every time there's a discovery of classified documents. >> phil rucker, andrew, thank you. that does it for this edition o" "chris jansing reports" right after this. threports. "chris jansing reports" right after this

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good day to you. i'm peter alexander. in the last hour, the white house announced that a lynch pin in the u.s. military arsenal will be headed to the ukrainian battlefield. how the decision to sind abrams tanks could change the dynamic on the ground in the war with russia. plus lawmakers trying to get

to the be the of how classified docu