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today's republican party exists in is that there's a so-called deep state and that is out to persecute the ex-president, his allies and other conservatives. now having managed to become house speaker by the skin of his teeth, kevin mccarthy is enacting an agenda based entirely off of that warped and delusional world view. one of his first acts, removing congressman adam schiff and eric swalwell from the house intelligence committee. mccarthy denied it had anything to do with the fact that they are critics of a disgraced twice impeached ex-president and his allies. >> the cardinal sin appears to be i led the impeachment of his master in mar-a-lago, for withholding hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid in ukraine, a nation that was then at war with russia, in order to

extort that country and to help donald trump's re-election campaign. >> you are seeing the fulfillment of kevin mccarthy's corrupt bargain, with marjorie taylor greene, somebody who declared on january 5, the day before the attack on the capitol, that this is 1776. someone who cheered on the insurrectionists. >> mccarthy made a few announcements regarding two committees set up entirely to feed the gop base's delusions. nbc news reports --

>> jackson once described a covid variant as a hoax by doctors and is donald trump's doctor. >> some people have just great genes. i told the president that he had a healthier diet, he might live to be 200. >> anything but that. mccarthy's moves, which you can sum up as retribution, stands? sharp contrast to the one thing that mccarthy refuses to do, that is call for the removal of a member of his own caucus, one who is responsible for a never ending stream of lies and allegations. we are talking about congressman george santos.

listen to what he said about the new york republican at a press conference last night. >> no. you know why i'm standing by him? because his constituents voted for him. i do not have the power because if i disagree with somebody or what they have said that i remove him from elected office. i will hold him to the same standard i hold anyone else elected to congress. if for some way when we go through ethics he has broken the law, then we will remove him. it's not my role. >> not my role to do anything about republican congressman george santos, says the republican speaker of the house, even as every hour seems to bring new questions about the lies he has told. "the daily beast" has reporting out today on financial disclosures from santos.

those questions haven't been answered. that's where we begin with some of our favorite reporters and friends. ali vitali is back. joining us, andrew weissmann. tipp miller is here. take me through the goings on on capitol hill. we can start there with kevin mccarthy's latest round of -- i don't know what to call them. excuses for why he can't do anything about santos, who is an

embarrassment even for this version of the republican party. >> yeah. i have to tell you, the hallways are about to get busier, because votes are about to start. what i can tell you is when i talk to republicans over the last few weeks about what's going on with george santos, they are all sort of doing what we're doing, which is bracing for the next day's revelations. surely, it will come. that's what's been proven out over the last few weeks. every other day we get a new piece of information that causes more questions. santos, in coming back to congress this week, seems to be taking it that he is dropping off treats for reporters who are outside his office, dropping off lunch, coffee and doughnuts and not taking any questions. certainly not taking seriously the valid questions that many people have about who was funding his campaign, parts of his buy -- biothat are lies.

he is doubling down. what mccarthy is trying do is make an argument on the national security front for santos and then also for these democrats, swalwell and schiff and omar, to explain why he is kicking them off the committees. he said he is not kicking them off all committees, just the intel. that's easy because it's a select committee. he can say, no, i'm not taking these recommendations from leader jeffries. that's what he did. that's what we expected him to do. you had swalwell on your show. he was talking about this. they knew this is what was going to happen. in the case of omar, to remove her from foreign affairs, he is going to have to have a full floor vote on the house. there have been two republican members so far, who seem to say that they are not going to go along with that. two is not enough to disrupt the entire thing. this is a game of handfuls, very razor thin margins. we are watching to see if other members have any

uncomfortableness with this. >> listen, andrew, you are a brilliant investigator and prosecutor. in all respect to your craft, you don't have to be brilliant to connect the dots between what schiff did and why revenge is being sought. here is schiff at the first intelligence committee hearing after the mueller report was made public. >> you might think that it's okay that the president's son-in-law sought to establish a secret back channel of communications with the russians through a russian diplomatic facility. i don't think that's okay. you might think it's okay that an associate of the president made direct contact with the gru and considered -- that is

considered a hostile intelligence agency. you might think it's okay a senior campaign official was instructed to reach that associate and find out what that hostile intelligence agency had to say in terms of dirt on his opponent. you might think it's okay the national security advisor secretly conferred with the russian ambassador about undermining u.s. sanctions, and you might think it is okay he lied about it to the fbi. you might say that's all okay. you might say that's just what you need to do to win. but i don't think it's okay. i think it's immoral. i think it's unethical. i think it's patriotic. yes, i think it's corrupt. >> andrew, i'm old enough to have worked in a republican party who wouldn't have

disagreed with adam schiff about putin's russia. we actually know more now. "the new york times" out with incredible reporting that actually closes the loop on the mariupol plan. that was the quo. you know more about this part of the mueller investigation than anyone. this is why schiff was kicked off. >> yeah. to say there's some other reason is absurd. i really think this is -- there's a moral part to this but there's a political component that's for you to answer. the idea that this is just go going to be payback, that it's tit for tat, it's so childish that that is what became of congress. the reason it's held in low

esteem and is basically become almost a defunct institution. is this going to give the democrats something to run against? for the republicans in the house to be doing all of this again, when they have lived through two elections now where true by the skin of our teeth it hasn't worked, but still it has not worked, and to engage in this kind of behavior and this sort of retaliatory behavior is one where i have to wonder just as a citizen whether it's really going to play for the republicans and it's going to help the democrats run on a, we are not trump, we are not these kind of republicans ticket, which so far seems to be working very well for the democrats.

>> i mean, i think the other way to put it is, we are marjorie taylor greene, marjorie taylor greene is us. nbc news is reporting that marjorie taylor greene is really looking above and beyond being kevin mccarthy's bestie. she would like to be donald trump's vice president. this is from nbc's report. marjorie taylor greene is angling to be trump's running mate in '24 according to two people who have spoken to the congresswoman. second source, who advised her, said her vision is to be vice president. the source has ties to trump but spoke anonymously. thinks trump -- she would be on trump's short list. i think trump should hope to be on her short list. she's the most powerful person in the body it seems to me. by sort of taking the deal early, she probably got more

than the holdouts who took the deal late only after i think 11 or 12 public humiliations. what do you make of the state of play? >> yeah. no doubt. marjorie taylor greene is the establishment. a lot of times people in the media want to say the republican party is going through this fight between the old establishment and the maga types. that's over. that's analysis from ten years ago. the republican establishment now is marjorie taylor greene. she's the closest ally of kevin mccarthy. you have been covering "the new york times" reporting on that and how he sees her as his wing woman, basically. she was needed to get him over the line to the speakership. she's tied in with president trump -- former president trump. i think the two most powerful men right now in the republican party, the speaker of the house and the former president, she's on their speed dial list. i do think she represents what

the party is now. that's represented in what kevin mccarthy has done also in these appointments in the committees. you have the covid committee, jackson and marjorie taylor greene on there, they were so crazy on covid that they were saying it was a hoax. jackson said the omicron variant was a hoax the democrats made up, which doesn't make sense. it's like somebody who hasn't read a newspaper from anywhere else in the world. these types of people, the conspiracy theorists are now inside the house, inside the speaker's office and are controlling the party. i think that just demonstrates how preposterous that mccarthy be like, we don't want anybody we couldn't trust on the intelligence committee. look at the people he is putting on these committees. >> right. someone said, it's his prerogative. the people who are replacing schiff and swalwell, who were

aggressive investigators of trump's undisputed political corruption and affinity for vladimir putin, are people who are so dirtied up with questions of criminality that they even know it. let me show you cassidy hutchinson's public testimony on how many of them were feeding from the trough. >> are you aware of any -- of a- [ inaudible ]

>> ali, let's stick with what's been entered into the record and is not in dispute. tell me which committees those five have landed on. >> for biggs as well. they landed on key committees, including oversight, coronavirus pandemic, some of them may be on the rules committee. this is the conversation that you and i were having in the midst of the speakership battle, which is a lot of these key players within the conference

who have a lot of pull just in terms of bringing mccarthy along on concessions they wanted, but also in terms of the way the committees will function at a fundamental level, they are central players that the january 6 committee reports have really underscored as very central to the operation in the days leading up to january 6. in the case of scott perry, it's important to remember that he was the person who wanted to install jeffrey clark atop the department of justice. he is someone -- several of the members are people who defied subpoenas from the january 6 committee. i do think that as a tangent to the january 6 committee conversation, here is what democrats learned from that, which is that because republicans were not seated on the january 6 committee that could work against the narrative building that that committee did, of course, kinzinger and cheney were republicans, but they were part of telling the brick by brick story we watched play out over a dozen or so hearings over the course of last

year, what democrats have learned is that on this committee on so-called weaponization, on all of these other select committees, they are going to seat members. they're going to be doing something that we did not see on the january 6 committee, which is countering the narrative. that's not something that republicans were able to do. it was a big mistake that many of my sources pointed to on the part of kevin mccarthy not taking more seriously finding members who could sit on that committee. now democrats have learned that lesson. i think that's going to be really important as we look ahead to what investigating they're going to be doing on these committees and the ways democrats will try to counter them at each turn. i think the other thing i'm thinking about, and as you talk about the conference moving to where marjorie taylor greene is so that she's now sort of the new establishment on the hill, this is a republican conference that has been remade in the trumpian image. the struggle that they're going

to have probably will come politically when they're trying to do some investigations that have a lot of people looking into what they could find, specifically on the afghanistan withdrawal, even potentially on how covid funds were used or misused. those are serious investigations. they are likely to be clouded by the more partisan investigations into hunter biden's laptop, weaponization of government. that's going to be a problem when republicans want to show voters what their house majority was for at the end of this. >> andrew, clouded is generous from ali, who is a fantastic reporter. they will be corrupted. they're not interested in investigating classified documents. they said nothing about wanting to find out why pence had documents. they want to use their committee to -- the republicans project -- all they do is project. they want to go find, as we have talked about a million times, some kernel of politicalization that we know isn't there. >> i do think that what you and

ali are talking about does have a real potential downside for the republican committees. not just because they will cloud the real investigations -- if you were going to look at how the withdrawal from afghanistan occurred, i agree with ali. that's a legitimate topic. if you are going to try to have aer narrative to january 6, good luck. there's a certain percentage that think it was a good idea. that's not where i think the public is. aligning yourself with a sinking ship is just not a great strategy. i think you are going to see -- not my area of expertise. but i think you will see a divergence between the house republicas and senate republicans in terms of where they are. >> you do. you saw mitch mcconnell shoulder to shoulder with joe biden touting the infrastructure bill.

>> yeah. i think the bigger question for the house republicans is whether there are enough of them that could maybe align with the mitch mcconnell view, to help the party's brand. i'm skeptical of that. i'm interested in the fact that two have spoken out. it's a four-seat majority. they only need five or six. the clowneyer it becomes. are there enough people that maybe fight against it? i'm skeptical. but that's something to watch. >> i'm skeptical, too. ali, for your great reporting, thank you, andrew and tipp, thank you for starting us off. when we come back, more on the line kevin mccarthy has drawn over how many lies are too many for the u.s. congress to tolerate. congressman dan goldman on his

scandal-plagued colleague. is he worried? teachers and students in florida standing up today to the bullying from that state's governor over his calls to police what kids are taught in the classroom, whether it photographs american african history. high schoolers are reading books in kindergarten classes. the president reiterating the u.s. commitment to ukraine with new weapons, even as the extremists in congress we have been talking about are trying to stand in the way of protecting the world's most vulnerable democracies. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. e house" cos after a quick break.

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no remarks for you guys right now. as i said earlier. when there are remarks to be made regarding anything you want, we will make those remarks. i hope you guys patiently wait. in the interim, we will be in touch. >> regarding the remark -- did you file any police report? >> that's up to you to investigate. you do such a good job at investigating everything. >> you feel like it's a matter of days before he has on a jet pack so he can fly away. that was george santos being asked about the video unearthed by our great smart colleagues. in that video santos claimed among many other things he was the target of an assassination attempt. serious stuff. he offered no new details.

msnbc reached out to his office to get more information. he made claims about being robbed and shoes taken away from him. so far, we will let you know if this changes, we haven't heard back. joining us now to talk about all of it, our friend, democratic congressman, dan goldman of new york. what's the latest on george santos? >> i don't know. you tell me. it changes every minute it almost seems like. more and more fanciful lies that continue to come out from george santos or whatever his name is. the latest though, i think, is more relevant to what republican leadership is doing or going to do. we know george santos is a serial liar. we know that he deceived and

defrauded his voters. how long is republican leadership going to stand by him? stand by this fraudster. especially because speaker kevin mccarthy and republican conference chair both knew about at least some of george santos' lies prior to the election. were they involved in covering it up? were they complicit in the effort to conceal his lies so that voters would not know about them? >> congressman, i was going to ask you to put your prosecutor hat on and give us a prosecutor's profile of him. he is changing answers on a form. that in and of itself involves the law. those forms you fill out and you a -- it's like testimony to the agencies that investigate you. he changed his answers on central things, like where $500,000 came from.

what if any of your concerns about ongoing criminality? >> well, i think there's a lot there. i am sure that the prosecutors in the eastern district of new york are looking at them. this was the subject of the ethics complaint that congressman torez and i filed with the house ethics committee. it appears even on its face and even from his own statements as if george santos violated campaign finance laws. first of all, he filed his initial financial disclosure 19 months after he was supposed to. he said he had an apartment in rio but then said he doesn't own any property. he doesn't include any clients of his entity, his company that found him making $750,000 a year. now he has gone and amended his financial disclosures to say that the $700,000 that he

personally loaned his campaign was not actually his personal funds. the only other money that could be from is a bank loan. i don't know any bank that would lend him $700,000 based on what is undoubtedly a horrific credit score. we need to learn about exactly what happened related to his finances and what he has done. he made the situation worse. he admitted he lied on the initial financial disclosure. his change doesn't explain anything. it actually puts him into a box that seems much more difficult to get out of. >> you are right, there are federal investigations. an fec investigation, an ethics investigation. if you just peel off the layer of following the money, do you have any theories of the case? anything you read in the public reporting or heard from all these republicans who knew about this for months and months with what the worst case scenario is?

>> i think at the end of the day, george santos may ultimately care very little about whether he is in congress or not. if there is an indictment brought against him. based on the recent reporting from "the washington post," there very will may be an indictment brought against him for his role in the harbor city ponzi scheme. certainly, if you look at his financial disclosures from 2020 and compare them to the ones in 2022, there are glaring red lights all around george santos' disclosures. it appears as if there's significant grounds for an investigation and potential prosecution for campaign finance fraud. >> let's talk about you. the latest reporting we have -- correct me if i'm wrong -- is that you have not received any committee assignments yet. is that right? >> correct. >> are you worried that you,

because of your prominent role in the first impeachment of donald trump, are being held out and potentially punished? is there something else afoot here we should understand? >> no, no. it's the normal process. i think the steering and policy committee for the democratic caucus is meeting today and tomorrow to finalize committee assignments. kevin mccarthy, the speaker, has said that even though he has final say over who may be on these select committees that he is not going to block anyone who has been named by leader jeffries. there's nothing to read into this. it's just the normal process. i'm excited for all of us to get our committee assignments so that we can begin the work that we all came here to do. obviously, i am eager to lean into my investigative background to poke holes in what will certainly be overreaching and

partisan propaganda dressed up as investigations by the house republicans. and i look forward to showing the american people that it's all a house of cards, what they say. >> have you asked leader jeffries to put you on jim jordan's subcommittee looking at politicalization of doj and the fbi? >> we have had some conversations with leadership. it appears -- there's a tremendous amount of talent in both the new members here in the democratic caucus as well as the broader caucus. i think that leader jeffries has a very difficult job to narrow down who is going to be on both the select committee on china as well as what i call the subcommittee to obstruct justice, which is the so-called weaponization subcommittee that jim jordan is going to head up. >> if asked, you would be willing to serve on that

subcommittee, what did you call it, on obstruction? >> yes. i would be happy to do whatever the leadership wants me to do. i would like to certainly play whatever role makes sense. obviously, from my experience, i think that there's a lot that can be gained from my experience on that subcommittee. >> congressman dan goldman, it rolls off my tongue. keep us posted. thank you. >> all right. thanks. up next, teachers fearing prosecution from a new law in the state of florida are choosing to cover their classroom libraries. we will explain this to you next. next ■ if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands. ■ ■if you're happy and you know it, ride your bike. ■ ■ if you're happy and you know it, then your face will surely show it. ■

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i have realized that i have not learned much about the history or culture of my people outside of my parents and close relatives. governor desantis decided to deny the potentially life changing class and effectively sensor the freedom of our education and shield us from the truth of our ancestors. >> because florida lawmakers may be uncomfortable or afraid with a course's criteria because it's too woke does not grant them the opportunity to take away this from thousands of students. >> outrage from students in florida alongside their teachers, state leaders, civil

rights leaders, standing up to republican governor ron desantis' authoritarian-like crusade against what he calls wokeness. ahead of an anticipated presidential run, it led overwhelming sense of fear in the classroom. ben crump says he is going to file a lawsuit with three high school students as plaintiffs against desantis for blocking them from taking a new advanced placement or ap course in african american studies. for his part, desantis backed his own decision this week because, of course, also it includes topics about gender and sexual orientation. the governor doubling down and saying that, no, no, no, it's not just about race. he is saying he is against teaching lgbtq issues in his state. back in the classroom because of a separate law banning books in the state of florida, teachers

and librarians are covering up shelves in school so they don't get charged with a third degree felony. students say the -- the teachers say students and the educators are bearing the brunt. let's bring in eddie glaud and matt dowd. eddie, this feels like it's not about what it's about. right? the year is 2023, i checked. ron desantis live lives in a st where everybody doesn't agree with these sorts of things. a majority does not. it's a corollary, if you will, to the tyranny of the minority. i wonder what you think is the appropriate recourse. >> i think, first of all, we have to name it for what it is.

that is, this is a kind of crude political gainsmanship and appeal to racism. we could describe it as the cultural wars 2.0 or 5.0. we know what the cultural wars as a shorthand was about. right? i think we need to understand that. we also need to understand historical background. whenever we are in a dark period in our country's history, there's -- it's always aligned with book banning. it's always tied to, tethered to denying people access to alternative ideas, whether it's in the colonial period with regard to religious plurality or whether it's in the context of slavery, trying to ban abolition books or in certain ways cut folks arm's off for trying to read books, or thinking about jim crow and the like. the united daughters of the confederacy banning books that weren't, shall we say -- that didn't present the south in a

good light. even in 1954, garth williams published a children's book. it was banned because it depicted a wedding between a white rabbit and a black rabbit. in our darkest moments, this is what we do. we need to name it for what it is. >> i want to follow up with you. you pulled, as you always do, the right thread. you are right. book banning, book burning, salem witch trials, burning healers, medicine, it's all anti-enlightenment, anti-progress, anti-woman, anti-other. how does ron desantis get away -- he has got trump's houdini political prowess in that he has a decent amount of support, even among democrats in his state. what do you make of that? >> yeah. not even banning just books. even redacting passages from the bible in order to justify the institution of slavery, just to

get that granular. this is the perfect question. it's not just the loud racist. it's never been. it's not just the people who wear white robes. it's not just them. at every moment when we find ourselves at this crossroads where we have to make a decision about who we are, there are those who are too reticent because they are afraid we are going to far. that toxic combination arrests change always. that's always been the case. we look at ron desantis and some of us, it's easy to dismiss him. that's not the problem. that's not singularly the problem. the problem of those who stand by silently and become complicit in it all. >> i think, matt, he articulated it better than i could how the

republican party died. they may not know they are dead. they are walking around, they are dead, they just don't know it. they died not because donald trump killed it but because all those people said and did nothing. they watched him talk about good people on both sides of the kkk rally. they saw him talk about grabbing women between the legs and they didn't withdraw their endorsement. they didn't refuse to go to the white house when they had common interests. they didn't refuse to endorse him for a second term. most voted for him again after he had been documented and was running for a second term that they knew was a calamity. what do we do about the epidemic of good people saying and doing nothing? >> you know, the old republican party died. but what surfaced now is a new version of the no nothing party basically. it has very strong emotional appeals to various segments of our society. we can't overlook that or deny

that, especially among, unfortunately, white working class voters in this country and citizens in this country. to me, we are at this -- i know eddie and i have had conversations around this. we are at this precipice today that unlike where we have been in our country's history. think about it this way. for 200 years, the american narrative was defined by one culture. right? for over 200 years, it was defined by one culture. it left some people out. but it was basically definitional of america is defined in one culture. that culture was white, male, christian, heterosexual. right? that was the -- those people that held that demographic held 95% of the power in our country for 200 years. right? what we are seeing today is ron desantis represents this fear

that is placed in a minority of america, a sizable minority, that that culture is gone. right? that culture as the dominant culture of america is no longer existing. what they are struggling with today is they think there needs to be culture linked with democracy. one culture linked with democracy. that's what they believe. they think the definition of america is that culture linked with democracy. they don't have a vision that a democracy can exist with multi-cultures, with many cultures, that we spektr the dig knit -- that respect the dignity of all. that's the problem they have. they do not think that america can be defined separate from that culture that was dominant over america for 200 years. that appears to fears of loss of power and those things. what i'm struck by as ron

desantis makes move after move after move, they appeal to fears, but they are a sign of weakness, if you think about it. a real sign of weakness. he doesn't think that sharing knowledge in a diverse way -- he is opposed to sharing knowledge in a diverse way. why? because he for some reason thinks that he believes in isn't going to be believed in. that people may be exposed to diverse viewpoints may actually adopt diverse opinions on many things, including the multiplicity of cultures in our country. that's what i think is fascinating. it is -- people see ron desantis and others like him as strong. really, they are incredibly weak. they are incredibly weak in that they have to put every block in place so that nobody can be exposed to any other diverse opinion. one other thing -- i know i went on a little bit. the other thing that sort of bugs me about this is that this

is a person -- this is a group of people that claim pro freedom, pro life and pro constitution. their decisions they have been -- that have been made over last few years have had nothing to do with freedom. they don't believe in freedom of thought or businesses to make decisions. that's what he did with disney and other companies. they are not pro life. he didn't want do anything on covid. he didn't care. he wanted to do nothing on covid. he wants to do nothing on guns. it's a party and movement define ed that way and they are none of those things. they know the dominant culture of america no longer is the majority of america. they can't grapple with an american that is multicultural. >> we have to sneak in a break. i want to challenge you on that. ap history, the focus on

american african studies is -- history is history. that's not diversity of opinion. that's our history. it's a tease. you are staying with us. we need to sneak in a break. that question on other side. a b. that question on other side.

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under this governor our people have been attacked, our culture has been dismissed, and now we're being told our history lacks educational value. what is the governor afraid of? are you afraid that your children and grandchildren will see you in their textbooks in direct opposition to the notion that all of us are created equal? >> he wants to say that you don't belong, whose story does and doesn't get to count. but we are here to tell him we are america. governor, black history is american history, and you are on the wrong side of history. >> two florida state lawmakers today speaking out against governor desantis and his decision to ban an ap african american history course. my question before the break was this, it's worse than what matt describes, and what matt describes is really bad, but this is one step beyond an

intolerance of diverse opinions. this is about erasure. it's about erasing our history because what? what's the why? >> so there is the worry about great replacement and then there's the worry about great displacementch the replacement will lead to a different historical narrative that will displace this idea of whiteness. it's not about a dominant culture that then kind of recedes as a multicultural america emerges. no, no, think about melville, what's at the heart of melville's literature, think about twain, what's at the heart of mark twain, think about faulkner, the minstrels -- we can talk about our music. go down the line, american culture has always been rooted in this extraordinary gumbo that makes us who we are. so what we have here is this myth, this ideology of whiteness that's being promulgated by a fellow trying to exploit it for

political gain. i know i'm talking really quickly, but this is an important point, nicolle, because we're conflating african american studies with african american history. they're different and we can flush that out. >> flush it out, eddie. flush it out. >> so african american studies is a broad interdisciplinary approach to the study of african specific people in the united states and across the globe. it will entail history, it will entail politics, it will entail economics and literature and culture. african american history is one component so that's why you have unit 4 in the ap exam, which goes to movements and debates. and he doesn't like that, right? so he doesn't have a problem with unit 3 with ap government and politics which includes the letter from the birmingham jail, a study of the national organization of women, the anti-abortion movement, affirmative action. that's not political, that's not indoctrination. he doesn't have a problem with

unit 9 of ap u.s. history exam which has everything to do with ascendant conservatism. no, the problem is black people, centering people in this moment because what ron desantis is doing is appealing to a grief-stricken whiteness in order to mobilize it to secure myth that is dead. it's in the grave, and these folks seem like they would rather throw democracy away than to admit that. >> you've to promise me you won't go over a minute, but i'll let you respond. >> sure. i agree with all of that, and i agree with everything that eddie just said on all of that. i mean i think the only difference i would make is that this white group held power for so long they assume they were going to keep holding it in a society that was changing fundamentally, and people were asserting their authority. you asked a question i want to address real quick. you asked a to eddie which i think is the most important question. is we need leaders -- how do we

get out of this? we need leaders who inspire, and we need leaders who mobilize. and they need to talk about this as the issue of our time not -- we don't need to keep going back and how many jobs were created and i get all that's important and all of that. this is the issue of our time. how do we define america in the 21st century in our democracy? how do we define america, and how do we preserve a multicultural democracy in our time? too many leaders want to go off into 500 other tangents and serve their district in the way they think, and we need more inspirational leaders speaking about this issue as the issue of our time. >> i'm smiling because you guys make me think, you make me cry. i've got love for both of you. thank you so hutch. up next for us, protecting democracy abroad. with the national security council's john kirby our guest

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today i'm announcing that the united states will be sending 31 abram tanks to ukraine, the equivalent of one battalion. it will enhance ukraine's capacity to defend its territory to achieve the strategic objectives. abrams tanks are the most capable tanks in the world. they're also extremely complex to operate and maintain, so we're also giving ukraine the parts and equipment necessary to effectively sustain these tanks on the battlefield. these tanks are further evidence

of our enduring, unflighting confidence in ukraine and the kill of the ukrainian forces. >> hi there, everyone. a major advance in ukraine's fight against russia. the u.s. announcing there it will supply abrams tanks to help ukrainian forces. these 31 abrams tanks as the president said right there mark an escalation in assistance ahead of an effective spring assistance by russia. ukraine's president zelenskyy called the move, quote, an important step on the path to victory and said today the free world is united as never before for a common goal, liberation of ukraine. we are moving forward. "the new york times" reports on this decision this way. quote, the pentagon had long been reluctant to send the abrams in part because they're exceptionally complex machines, they're challenging to operate and maintain. as it is officials have said it could take a year or longer for them to actually reach the battlefield in ukraine. but defense secretary lloyd austin came around to the move in order to spur germany to send its own leper two tanks.

president biden noted the timing of both announcements that signals as he said the west's unwavering unity in defending ukraine while also stating the sending of these tanks is not an offensive threat to russia. as western allies are projecting unity and strengthen in the face of russian aggression, domestically the agreement to assist ukraine no matter what it takes has been met with some resistance. the extremist members of the gop who thinks tim mccarthy's surrendering power to them in order to win the speakership now holds significant weight in the republican controlled house. and they have for months been railing against providing more aid to ukraine. >> under republican not another penny will go to ukraine.

our country comes first. >> the entire infrastructure of this country, the roads and bridges, the real infrastructure, we don't spend on much as that here as we've spent on ukraine in nine months. i think that's despicable. >> the days of endless cash and military material to ukraine are numbered. i will not vote for one more dollar to ukraine. i will not vote for one more piece of material to ukraine. >> so, again, we're not -- we don't have a scoop here. they said it out loud. even when president zelenskyy spoke before a joint session of congress last month representatives matt gaetz and lauren boebert refused to clap when he walked into the chamber. congressman clyde did not participant in one of the standing ovations, and congressman tom massy, mr. infrastructure is everything, we're checking to see if he voted for it or not, didn't

attend president zelenskyy's address to congress. but as president biden said in his announcement today it is important to help ukraine in their fight because so much is at stake. >> this is about freedom, freedom for ukraine, freedom everywhere. it's about the kind of world we want to live in, the world we want to leave to our children. so may god protect the brave ukrainian defenders of their country and keep the flame of liberty burning brightly as it can. >> we need to protect democracy is where we start with john kirby, national security council coordinator for strategic communications. he has literally like superman just run into that spot, put on a mic, and he's ready to talk to us about all of this. john, this was a big -- i don't want to use the wrong adjective. tell me what adjective you would choose. this was an important announcement from the white

house. >> it is. as part of the armored tanks we've provided it's a major muscle move. and for aurm jen arb wheretoo much you saw they'll announce they'll also be providing some of their tanks, about 14 of them, and they'll also work with their partners who also use the leopard tank to fill out what will eventually be two italian worth of tanks over the coming months. so this is a tremendous capability that ukraine will soon be able to take advantage of. and when you think about the kind of fighting we're seeing now in the donbas area and the kind of fighting that we expect to see come spring when the weather conditions are better certainly with the russians perhaps wanting to go on the offense, this tanks and all these armored vehicles will be critically important for the ukrainians to conduct what we call combined armed operations, which we're training them on right now. >> help me understand, i mean take me to school on tanks.

is that that germany won't give them the tanks they need unless we give them the tanks that we can give them? is it about collaborative diplomacy? or has the war changed and their prospects of winning the war change, so we're happy to give them such a valuable, complicated asset? >> well, i mean, i think you heard chancellor schultz today when he went to parliament to talk about this announcement and he said how important it was that germany work in lock step and full coordination with allies and partners, and certainly he considers the united states that key ally and partner. so this was a coordinated decision that was the result of weeks of discussions with the germans and with our allies and partners that led to this, and it was important for us, the united states, if we were going to make the move to provide these tanks, which are very sophisticated, most capable tanks in the world, that we do it in a way that's meaningful, in other words, not just give a

token tank or two, but that's why we have dedicated ourselves to 31 tanks, the equivalent of one ukrainian battalion so that when they get on the ground and when ukrainians properly trained to operate and maintain them -- and that's going to take some time, too -- that they'll be able to use these tanks in a very effective way on the ground against russian forces. >> you're probably the administration official with whom i've had the most conversations about the war in ukraine. and i remember that last, you know, late february and march one of the messages that seemed to guide all of the decision making about assistance was about escalation and this line whether it was sort of real or perceived on russia's part between offensive and defensive weapons. has that line moved? has that line changed -- or these weapons seem to be both offensive and defensive, no? >> well, a tank is a very capable system and as the president said today they don't

represent any offensive threat to russia, to russian homeland. they do, however, represent a very viable, credible threat and it's not just the abrams but the leopards as well to russian soldiers that are inside ukraine illegally and in an unprovoked way. so they do represent a threat to russian armed forces inside ukraine, and they are meant to. and they're meant to be able to help ukraine not only defend itself but claw back some of the territory that the russians have taken from them. you ask about escalation management, and you and i have been talking for months now, that has always been a consideration. whatever system we agree to provide ukraine, we always want to factor in the possible reactions by mr. putin and russia and certainly work in no way to escalate this war beyond what it already has dreadfully escalated to at this point. it serves no one's interests let alone ukraine's interests for this to actually become a war between the united states and

russia. so we're mindful of that. that doesn't mean that we are squeamish. it doesn't mean that we are not afraid to explore additional advanced capabilities and get them into the hands of ukrainians when we think it's appropriate for them and when it matters for the war on the ground. and that's what this is. this is -- this decision is very much in keeping with our assessment of conditions on the ground now and the kinds of conditions on the ground that we think that the ukrainians are going to have to face in coming months. >> one of the hallmarks, i guess, of this phase is russia's seemingly indiscriminate campaign of terror against ukraine's civilian population. the now clear targeting of apartments and shopping centers, things designed to weaken the will of the ukrainian people. i don't have access to any intelligence, but it's clear that the ukrainian people have this -- this thing, this "x"

factor, this resilience. i know from talking to them, i'm sure you know from meeting president zelenskyy and others, but it isn't working. that said what is the strategy for protecting the ukrainian civilian population from russia's campaign of terrorism targeting the civilian population? >> one of the capabilities we haven't been talking about today because the tanks are understandably the headline is air defense. and not long ago president biden committed to providing a patriot battery into ukraine. that's a longer range air defense capability, but we have also provided many short and medium range air defense capabilities. and it's not just us, other nations have, too. we believe that's a key component of trying to help protect ukraine from these air assaults, which you're right, nicolle, they are happening almost every day. cruise missiles and drones are being flown into infrastructure targets trying to knock out the power or knock out the water, and as you likely noted even civilian targets like apartment buildings, playgrounds, schools,

it's completely deplorable what mr. putin has been willing to visit upon the ukrainian people in an effort to terrorize them, in an effort to scare them, in an effort to cow them into giving hup. the ukrainians are stepping up, the bravery and courage is inspiring to see in the wake of so much violence. we've got to make sure we're working to protect themselves from those assaults as much as we can. we're also working hard to help rebuild their energy infrastructure, to keep the lights on. so we're sending all kinds of equipment and technical assistance their way so that they can better, you know, repair these damaged infrastructure facilities. >> we played some of the sound of some of the newly ascendant -- if that's the right word to use about matt gaetz and

marjorie taylor greene -- members of the house republican conference, and they've said out loud things about not another penny goes to ukraine. mr. massy said we have to build here not there, which is an incredibly ignorant parallel that is often made when you mix national security interests with domestic priorities. but i wonder if you can speak to any efforts behind the scenes to make sure -- and i know this isn't as much of an issue in the senate, but there remains this bipartisan support for giving ukraine whatever they need to defeat russia. >> i would tell you and the president mentioned this again today, too, there has been tremendous bipartisan and bicameral support for ukraine and for the kinds of efforts that we're expending whether it's security assistance in weapons and systems, financial systems, humanitarian aid. there's been a real strong support coming out of capitol hill, and we're grateful for that.

and the president has said himself we do not think that that's going to -- that that's going to diminish over time, that our legislators understand how important this is. the larger meaning of this. and so do the american people. and he talked about that again today, too. there are some -- you're right, there are a small minority that don't support what we're doing. but they are a small minority, and we see no indication this bicameral, bipartisan support is really going to diminish, and it shouldn't. there's no reason for it to. obviously this is about ukraine and making sure ukraine can defend itself, clearly. but as the president said today it's about the idea of sovereignty and independence. and of all the sovereign ideas of this nation independence is the preeminent one. and i think everybody, all americans can see the wisdom there. >> i'm going to put you on the spot and ask you to come back as we near this one-year mark. and i would love to understand sort of strategically and

psychologically what that one year anniversary of war in ukraine is like inside the white house and inside the building. john kirby, i have a sense how busy you are and how close you cut this with all the other things competing with your time and attention today. so thank you very much for starting us off this hour. retired general barry mccaffrey during operation desert storm. he's now an msnbc military analyst, and charlie sykes, editor at large for the bulwark, also lucky for us. general mccaffrey, i start with you. keep me in school on tanks. why is this such a big deal? >> well, let me start by saying the biden team -- secretary blinken, secretary of defense -- are really extraordinarily competent. i think they're going to keep the contact group of 40 some odd

nations. they're keeping nato together, germany, and france, and to some extent italy being outliers. and they'll probably keep domestic support in congress as admiral kirby says. that's the good news. now, when it comes to tanks there's a ration of nonsense flowing around about what's going on. a great political gesture trying to push germany into providing significantly more support to ukraine, which is important. but 31 abrams tanks a year from now are not even an inconsequential gesture. this is nonsense. the ukrainians need an armored division by june, let's say, to deal with 300,000 russian conscripts that will be at their throat. they also need deep strike capability, attacking missiles to go after the russian army

command post, ammo, fuel. when it comes to abrams tanks a lot of these arguments about how complicated it is is nonsense. an experienced ukrainian tank crew could be fully trained in 30 days. those tanks and other armored vehicles are already in europe. it doesn't take a year to get them there. you can fly them out of fort -- you know, stewart georgia, and get them there in less than a month. so we're really dragging our feet when it comes to being intimidated by putin. by the way, biden has to take into account the threat of nuclear war, of escalation, the horizontal or vertical escalation. so, you know, that's his job, but i think we're dragging our feet and nowhere near the ball game. gas guzzler abrams tanks, it goes 265 miles on a -- one fill up. it goes 45 miles an hour uphill. it kills russian armored at

3,000 meters in the dark while moving, so i think our level of effort is not even remotely in the ballpark. >> wow. it's always a truth bomb with you. charlie, i've got another truth bomb. the sound i played coming in here republican congressman named congressman mass ae, his reason for thought wanting to spend another dime on aid to ukraine military or otherwise was because, quote, we've got roads and bridges here. the infrastructure package made its way through the house and the senate and massy voted against it. so the reasons aren't even true reasons. he's not interested in spending money on roads and bridges in america either. >> no. and i think that that's -- you're going to see that kind of hypocrisy over and over again. to the general's point, though, i share his frustration it's taken so long for us to do this. we need to give the ukrainians the tools so they can finish the

job. and we need to stop being self-deterred and self-intimidated by vladimir putin. but to your point i wish i shared admiral kirby's optimism about the congressional opposition. i think people ought to be very, very worried. i know vladimir putin is looking at the calender and he's seeing there's an election year. and we know those sound bites you played of matt gaetz, marjorie taylor greene and massy, that is the id of the republican party and they control the house of representatives right now. this is the id, and i think what vladimir putin is looking at is thinking if i can hold out long enough, if i can keep this thing going i can break european will and the american political environment may change. we may get republicans back in power. donald trump is running for president again. i think he's confident that that would mark a dramatic reversal and a withdrawal. look, when donald trump embraced the slogan "american first" it

has historical resonance. the first american first movement in this country back in the '30s and '40s resisted american involvement in world war ii, was opposed to america's opposition to adolph hitler. and this is following in the footsteps opposing opposition to vladimir putin's aggression in europe. so i think we need to take it seriously. we're watching the radicalization of the republican party. we're watching the way in which marjorie taylor greene is exercising a whip hand over the majority of the house of representatives. and as you pointed out they are making no secret of the fact they fully intend to betray the patriots of ukraine if and when they have the opportunity to do that. so the clock is running. >> i was overseas when zelenskyy came to congress, unfortunately. it was something i would have loved to have covered, but it was on the front page of papers

in europe that republican house members called zelenskyy what was it a welfare king? the disdain that american republicans -- and, you know, they may be a minority, but they are the most powerful minority in the house republican conference. the disdain that they had is international news. and we cover it because to your point, charlie, putin's paying very close attention. and i think to your other good point, i mean in 2015 putin had to make a similar point in '14. putin biden his time and meddled in our election. democrats and republicans can acknowledge there were efforts to sow disinformation and discord. are you afraid that we're looking at another such moment, charlie? >> i am afraid. and i think we ought to be concerned. and that's why general

mccaffrey's concerned about how slow we have been to give the ukrainians the weapons, i think might come back to haunt us in the future. i think it's wonderful that the germans are going to give these leopard tanks. i obviously -- i've been listening to general mccuffry all day about the limited impact of our tanks. i mean hopefully that will open up, you know, more of the weaponry from europe. but the problem is that they need to be able to fight and win this war in the next year, otherwise i think vladimir putin will be emboldened by thinking that if he can just drag this on, if he can just continue to intimidate the west, if he can get inside the heads of the western leaders -- i think your phrase was, general, self-intimidate, make them afraid of escalating. by which they actually mean doing what needs to be done so

that ukraine can actually win this war. i think that could be a problem going into 2024. >> they're sticking around with us. ahead for all of us, there were some stunning remarks we want to show you from america's former secretary of state and former cia director and potential future presidential candidate mike pompeo. what he said and did not say about the deadly insurrection on january 6th. plus there is news breaking this hour about the future of the twice impeached disgraced expresident's social media accounts on facebook and instagram. and later on the show why rupert murdock is now backtracking on merging his media empire. fox is being sued for $1.6 billion to be exact with the trial set for this april. try to suss out what's happening

for fox. deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. te house conts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards. but the aclu can't do this important work

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. from our secretary of state mike pompeo is making the rounds to promote his new book. pompeo a former house member had this to say about how he thinks the january 6th insurrection is being exploited by the left. >> you describe it as a day that it was just exploited for democrats. >> yeah, it has been exploited. it's actually been exploited by the left, i believe that firmly. we've had -- we've had bad days in america before. that night ended in glory. that night ended in the united states of america completing its

constitutional process and confirming president biden as the duly elected president of the united states. we should be proud of that. >> we should be proud of that. today it ended in 147 republican members of congress voting against that glory, voting against certifying president joe biden's victory and meme died law enforcement officials and agents and police officers were maimed with injures you can see in that scene that they will suffer from for the rest of their lives. that day in mike pompeo's world view a day that ended in glory because at the end the constitutional held. i think that's his reasoning. it's a stark contrast to the summation of the day from his former house republican colleague, republican liz cheney. >> in our country we don't swear an oath to an individual or a political party. we take our oath to defend the united states constitution, and

that oath must mean something. tonight i say this to my republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible. there will come a day when donald trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain. >> we're back with general barry mccaffrey and charlie sykes. i think you can say a lot of things about january 6th, but then it's been exploited by the left isn't among them. general mccaffrey mike pompeo is in my view the most dangerous kind of trumpest republican because he uses his sort of pseudo-intellectual posture to sneer at the left in a way that really in some ways is uglier than trump's bombast. the left didn't exploit january 6th. the left along with conservative republicans liz cheney and adam kinzinger tried to investigate january 6th. and i guess the question i would

ask him if he ever came here -- and he wouldn't -- is why didn't you help? choose me, i served our country in the military, the state department and cia. i too, want to understand the roots of a deadly attack on the seat of government. where are we that former national security officials are using it for cheap political shots? >> well, we're in great danger for a starter. and i think you make a very important point. some of the republican fringe elements in congress are just common thugs with low iqs, and that certainly doesn't apply to mike pompeo. the guy is brilliant, number one in his class at west point, harvard law, congressman, secretary of state, cia director, a résumé to kill for, articulate. so he's a consequential person. and the fact that he could not strongly condemn and focus on the biggest threat to our

democracy since 1865 is unsettling. but worse than that is that he's remaining loyal to trump. and trump i think will go down in history as the most base character in the history of american politics. he was a clear threat to the american people. he's running again, and mike pompeo is reluctant to walk away from that fringe group that's supporting trump. >> you know, charlie, just pick up on this, there's this stupid human trick element to trump. it's not an excuse structure for his corrupt and criminal behavior. i of all people believe in accountability for him in the criminal justice system. i know there won't be any in our old political party. but mike pompeo is an enabler, gets trump distance that he couldn't otherwise travel. and what in your view is accountability for mike pompeo? >> you know, i'm trying to figure out what pompeo is doing

because he's been floating the idea he's running for president himself, and he's out with that book where he's sort of reveling in the sort of performative jerkitude, minimalizing, rationalizing the brutal murder of jamal khashoggi. he obviously thinks he doesn't need to look like a nice guy to run for office. that weird triangulation you heard there where he refuses to condemn the actual attack on january 6th, but then at the end, you know, describes the day of glory being the certification of joe biden's election -- election as president, which obviously will not play well down in mar-a-lago. so he is distancing himself from the trump in the sense he said donald trump lost that election, joe biden won that election, it was good that they went along with all of that. so in some ways he is trying to distance himself, but at the same time not distancing himself

from the attack. i just don't know how -- how really tenable that position is. and a lot of republicans like including mike pence, you know, want to go halfway, but they refuse to go the whole way and say this was in fact an attack on american democracy, it was incited by donald trump which ought to disqualify donald trump from any office of trust in the united states. you don't get that from mike pence, and you don't get that from mike pompeo. so i continue to be puzzled by trying to figure out what lane they think that exists for them to advance now they're own careers. >> charlie, if pompeo were still a house member do you think he would have voted to certify the glorious election of joe biden? >> i have no idea, but it's worth remembering that the vast majority of republican members of congress actually did vote against certifying that election. and that many of those election

deniers, people who, by the way, voted against certifying the election after the attack on the capitol, after the bloodshed, after the attempt to overturn the election, they still did that. and many of them now are in that majority and playing important role as committee chairs. >> general barry mccaffrey and charlie sykes, twof our favorite humans, thank you very much for spending some time with us today. >> when we come back the parent company of facebook and instagram made a decision whether or not the suspended twice impeached ex-president should be allowed back on theirplatefirms. we'll tell you what they decided after a quick break. they decided after a quick break.

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some major breaking news in the last hour that may have political and domestic security consequences regarding the twice impeached disgraced ex-president. meta, that is the tech company that is home to facebook and instagram, has announced that it will allow the former president back on the platforms after a two-year ban stemming from his statements on january 6th. in a statement meta's president of global affairs, nick cleg, said this, quote, the suspension was an extraordinary decision taken in extraordinary circumstances. the normal state of affairs is that the public should be able to hear from a former president of the united states and a declared candidate for that office again on our platforms.

now that the time period for suspension has elapsed the question is not whether we choose to reinstate trump's accounts but there remain circumstances extending beyond the two-year period is justified. our determination is that the risk has sufficiently receded. let me read that again, the risk has sufficiently receded. and that we should therefore adhere to the two-year time line we setout. as such we'll be reinstating trump's facebook and instagram accounts in the coming weeks. joining us now investigative professor, the director of public policy at hunter college. i don't know, a new mexico man was just arraigned and is awaiting trial for carrying out an act of maser minding political violence, hiring four people to shoot at the homes of four democratic officials because he believed that there had been fraud in his election.

a san francisco man attacked the house that was an assassination attempt. we learned from that prosecution. and in brazil hundreds and hundreds of people staged a coup. we're now a country exporting political violence across state lines and coups internationally. and i don't know i'm on the fence about whether or not to read what trump -- he does this on truth social today. but to call it racist would be almost insulting to racists. >> to your point, american exceptionalism cuts both ways. we can export the best of our nation or we can export the worst. in many ways trump has exported the worst around the world and inspired people around the world certainly within this country to engage in the most base political behavior if you can even call it that. when meta says and i'll go to the glasses here sufficiently

receded, it's shocking because as you said there are people out there targeting democratic officials. you have the secretary of state from michigan on several times talking about you hear election workers are still being threatened both republican and democrat. and so to me this is -- this actually doesn't come as a surprise because i figure they want to make money in the beginning of their campaign season it be able to collect some of that ad revenue, and my sense is trump will play an inside and outside game. inside meaning truth social where he's spending most of his time because he's been able to get back on twitter but not using twitter. he'll get on truth social and have some of those inside messages for his core supporters and try to stay to some extent within the guardrails meta sets up on the facebook side. but we should be clear whatever he's doing, wherever he's doing it, it is not in the country's best interest. >> right, and i guess to this point, joyce vance, that some risk has decreased.

i mean i get facebook, you do you. but the threat environment, the adl report out i think about ten days ago now has a precipitous rise in anti-semitic violence and threats. there is a rise in hate crimes against asian american communities all across our country. there is a rise in the threat of political violence that has local law enforcement and prosecutors on edge, so say local prosecutors and local police departments. and trump has become if you can believe this again, i'm not going to read it -- but he has become the worst version of the last version we saw on all these platforms. what are your thoughts today? >> so trump unleashed i think previously unprecedented violence approval from someone in his role on the country, and that has not diminished. in that sense his continued presence in the public square is

very problematic, but i think facebook, meta's decision here highlights an institutional failure. it's the failure of our institution to hold trump accountable, the failure of the criminal justice system to hold him accountable for his activity, and perhaps even more importantly the failure of his own party to push him back to the margins where he belongs. you know, you played the clip of mike pompeo's whitewashing of january 6th, absolutely unacceptable to listen to that. and what we have always relied upon in our society, meta, facebook, twitter, instagram, that's all part of the public marketplace of ideas. and in this country we tolerate a broad perspective there. we count on our institutions on views that are unacceptable when they cross into criminality or for political parties to make sure that people they are

lifting up because part of the justification here is that he's a candidate for presidency in the republican party. clearly the leading one at this point in time, and none of the leaders in that party have said this violence that he provoked is unacceptable, the crime, the threat to people who are involved in the inner workings of democracy, we don't stand for it, we don't stand for him. it's that lack of institutional courage that has brought us to this point. >> these two things are happening right now, and i guess it's an open question whether they're related. garret haake has reported on this show that if the jim jordan subcommittee investigating doj and fbi can't turn up anything, their other priority is the twitter files and this question of censorship. do you think there's any correlation between the timing of that committee's existence and this decision today? >> look, i think certainly the

upcoming oversight investigations of social media companies by house republicans has got to be on the minds of facebook and people at twitter and at youtube. and, look, it's going to be a rough two years for facebook and washington at the hand of house republicans. and they're going to ask hard questions about why trump was held off and what the standards are. i think facebook just doesn't want to be in the business of making these hard calls, and the idea of being the ones to decide that a candidate for president should be banned from the platform is one they didn't want to stomach. now, i'm waiting to hear more about the thinking behind the idea that the threat has receded. my copanelists here i think have ably tackle that topic, but if you follow trump on truth social he's not a more restrained version of the person he was on twitter in 2020. he's a less restrained version. he's more and deeper into conspiracy theories and attacks and threats.

nor has the former president ever admitted he was wrong about january 6th, that he was wrong to do what he did, that he was wrong to spread lies about the voting and voting machines. and remember, you know, january 6th got started on facebook. stop the steal was a movement that was born on facebook. it's hard for me to look at what we've seen in the last two years and conclude the threat has receded or donald trump is different. >> congressman adam schiff makes some very similar points that are being made by nick comp sorry. quote, trump incited an insurrection to try to stop the peaceful transfer of power. he's shown no remorse, no contrition. giving him back access to a social media platform to spread his lies and demagoguery is dangerous. no one's going anywhere. there's a lot more for us. ahead we'll try to figure out what's going on at fox that's facing a $1.6 billion lawsuit in the dominion voting systems defamation case and whether

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the deposition might have had on the 11-year-old's thinking. according to the times report, murdoch has apparently abandoned his idea to merge the two parts of his media empire, news corp. and the fox copper, nearly ten years after the company split up. in a statement, news copper said that murdoch had determined that combining it with the fox corporation was, quote, not optimal for shareholders of news corp. and fox at this time. we're back with nick, joyce, and because l. is this an admission that they very much might lose the $1.6 billion lawsuit? >> it's a huge backtrack for a master dealmaker in rupert murdoch. it's very hard to say right now, honestly, in this decision is linked to the lawsuit by dominion voting systems. there was a lot of shareholder pressure before this against the deal. and of course, the information that they gave is that the deal on further review is not good for shareholders. however, we should look back at the history of why news corp.

and fox were split in the first place. they were split during the hacking scandal in the united kingdom. and they were split to protect, in part, to protect fox from the legal and political consequences that were enveloping news corp. at the time, threats of regulatory interference, of not being able to do mergers, so there is some precedence for them to think about the companies this way. as of now, we've seen that murdoch testified in the dominion lawsuit this week. we don't have any details yet on what he testified about, in general, the course of that lawsuit has been about showing and approving that fox executives and hosts were known or had knowledge of the facts about the false claims of lies that were going on the air, day after day, about dominion. and didn't do anything about it. that's the apex or the crux of that lawsuit. but we haven't seen any detail yet about whether these two things are actually linked. >> joyce, how do you read the

tea leaves? >> i think it's hard not to read the dominion lawsuit as the tea leaves here, and it's interesting, you know, murdoch isn't the only family member who's been deposed. his son, lachlan stand for a deposition in september. usually, if these issues are serious, they get resolved via settlement. before that happens, it takes away from the company to have their top leadership deposed. it looks like we're heading into a trial on this one. we may a little bit more about the deposition testimony if there are a flurry of pre-trial motions, trying one party, trying to say, look, judge, there are no issues left here for a jury to resolve. but i think, likely, this goes to trial, with a lot of testimony, a lot of uncomfortable disclosure, that based upon what we've learned about this case is likely to make fox look really bad, to make murdoch look very bad.

so when he says, it's not a good time for this to take place, i think he's looking heavily to the lawsuit and what he aeps. >> basel, i knew some folks who were working on some of the pr pieces of this and i think you've seen some of this bear out in the "60 minutes" reporting and even in the quotes in "the new york times" story. they have, perhaps, the best defamation suit that's been brought, not just against fox, but against any media organization in a generation. >> yeah, you know, with what everyone has said, this is an opportunity for the constituent organizations, the constituent companies to save themselves a little bit from what's happening at fox news. am i the only one that thought about "succession"? >> totally! >> i wonder what kendal roy was do in this situation. >> he'd flip. >> right? as i'm thinking about that, i'm thinking about the dangers of consolidating all of this media. i remember sinclair broadcasting in 2018, when everyone in

lockstep was broadcasting the same information and i'm saying to myself, if this were to go down, i wouldn't like that. and in some ways, i'm actually thankful that this decision is being made, even if it's an opportunity for rupert murdoch to save himself in the process. >> nick, i remember when lou dobbs was fired at that part of the disinformation comingling of world events. how much does the sanctioning of someone like him who was really lifting up these lies about dominion and other voting systems sort of get used an as acknowledgement that they knew that they were in trouble? >> you know, it's funny you said that. it's often the case that fox unloads lesser personalities, you know, trish reagan or lou dobbs, but protects the really big ones, since roger ailes left and passed away. roger ailes, for all his faults, was known to exert a really tight reign on the talent. he liked to show them who was boss. that was not the culture of the company these days.

the talent are the boss. they're potentates and moguls on their own and they're not reigned. what you see happening at the company is sometimes they'll let someone go who's less valuable to the bottom line, and often, as they're defending the more lucrative hosts, they'll point to the people that they fired and said, look, we're not immune to consequences here. so they do often play a bit of that role. >> it's so interesting. thank you for your "succession" reference. i love that, basel. thank you, nick confessore. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. confessore a quick break for us we'll be right back. she had a lot of questions when she came in. i watched my mother go through being a single mom. at the end of the day, my mom raised three children, including myself. and so once the client knew that she was heard. we were able to help her move forward. your client won't care how much you know

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in case two ours of us isn't enough for you, there are two things to tell you about. our deadline legal blog is up and running with analysis of all the legal stories that we cover every day on the broadcast. and our one-our interview with january 6th committee lead investigator tim haitiy has just landed over on peacock. you can find it there. we'll have a chunk of that to show you tomorrow in case you missed it on friday. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are so grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. i've got four seconds to spare. i'm getting better. >> what do you want to with them? >> are you going to rap for me? >> a four-second rap would be like half a bar. >> i feel like the kids would love it. that's about all you get them for. >> that's right, not just kids, all of our attention spans are shrinking. >> hashtag goals. >>