tv Alex Wagner Tonight MSNBC January 26, 2023 1:00am-2:00am PST
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now. it really is sort of the anti -- you're not supposed to besmirch people who have not been charged. i think it's totally appropriate that she said, look, these people have not been charged. it's not fair to have the report come out now. but i do think the issue of eminence, she had to not only internally, but in light of the fact that the judge now has put a clock on this. another whites, the judge any day could rule for her or against her. she really can root out this entire issue by bringing charges quickly. because it's pretty clear that once charges are brought, she's no longer gonna take the position that the report should brought, she is no longer going to take the position that the report should be kept fully sealed. >> that's a great point, andrew wiseman as always. a pleasure. thank you. that is "all in" on this
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wednesday night. alex wagner starts right now. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. this was the moment that donald trump lost his megaphone. >> i know your pain, i know you're hurt. we had an election that was stolen from us. it was a landslide election and everyone knows it, especially the other side. but you have to go home now. we have to have peace. so go home. we love you, you're very special. you've seen what happens. you see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil, i know how you feel. but go home and go home in peace. >> that was donald trump's video response to january 6th, issued hours after the capitol had been stormed by a violent mob of insurrectionists. trump used that moment to repeat the election lies that motivated the rioters to storm the capital
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in the first place and then told the mob they were, quote, very special. that video and a another post denying the election were the straws that broke the camel's back at the social media companies for years trump was able to use twitter and facebook to vilify groups and promote violence and to spread poison poisonous lies to followers. a study found trump's anti-islam tweets may have been an increase in hate crimes. severe toxicity and online threats increased in the aftermath of his tweets. but on january 6th as the country claim closer than it ever has to a violent coup, those social media companies
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finally realized they could not keep giving trump a platform so twitter and facebook banned donald trump. and that was a big deal. prior to the ban had nearly 88 million followers on twitter and another 35 million on facebook. facebook in particular had been key to donald trump's success ever since his first presidential run. in a 2017 interview with "60 minutes" brad parscale, which was trump's campaign guru, who said it was facebook, not twitter, that had elected donald trump. >> i understood early that facebook is how donald trump is going to win. twitter is how he talked to the people, facebook is how he won. facebook was the method, it was the highway which his car drive own. >> parscale would explain the trump campaign was able to spend less money because trump's campaign used facebook advertising. facebook charged less for the content and that content was in turn more likely to be spread as
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click bait. this is what parscale concluded in 2018. donald trump was a perfect candidate for facebook. so facebook did all of that for trump, well before january 6th when the company finally decided to suspend trump from the platform for two years. the decision was announced by meta's head of global affairs, to give you an idea how important that job is, his job before the deputy to the united kingdom. he said at the end of the period we will look to experts to assess whether the risk to public safety has receded we will evaluate external factors including instances of violence. if we, being meta, determine the
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restriction is necessary we will continue it for a set period of time and reevaluate as needed. so meta was going to wait two years and if there was a risk still, meta would continue to ban donald trump from its site. in the two years since that announcement, donald trump has continued to spread lies and he has escalated his election conspiracies. he has endorsed and promoted several high profiler election deniers as candidates for state office. he has gone farther and embracing the rioters from january 6th arguing they should be pardoned. today he put out a new video suggesting that january 6th was a false flag operation by the fbi. and the violence spurred by his election lies that violence has only gotten worse. we saw it this month when an election denier and republican candidate in new mexico was arrested after firing gun shots at the homes of state democratic
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officials. we saw it with the violent attack on the husband of the former speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. we saw it last year when one of the people at the capital insurrection on january 6th when one of those men fired a nail gun into an fbi field office in cincinnati, ohio. what meta executive nick clegg called the serious risk to public safety has not gone away. it may not be a mob storming the capital but the violence is there. and it's happening in ongoing and discreet ways. and yes, today meta announced it was lifting the suspension of donald trump from facebook and instagram, once again allowing trump access to the social media site that fuelled his rise. nick clegg explained that decision today in an interview with my colleague hallie jackson. >> how can you say in this country the risk of political
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violence has receded? >> i think we -- what we're essentially doing is comparing it to the circumstances which led to his two-year suspension in the first place. i'm not saying everything is perfect, no one is. saying if you compare it to the circumstances which led to his original suspension we think the risk to public safety has materially and significantly receded but that is also the reason why we are introducing those additional guardrails to discourage him from breaking our rules going forward if he chooses to use instagram and facebook again. >> we think the risk to public safety has materially and significantly receded. joining us now is democratic congressman from california ro khanna. thanks for making time tonight. let's start with the assertion that the threat of violence has officially receded.
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do you agree with that? >> i do not. i think there are a lot of people in the capital who don't agree with that. a lot of colleagues who still receive death threats and travel around with security. alex, i'm a classic liberal, and i do believe very strongly in free speech and in getting different viewpoints. it's a difficult situation where you have someone leading the republican nomination for president to say that they should not have a forum on essentially a modern public square. so i guess where i come out is, if they're going to lift the ban but take action to ban him again if he has any posts that incite violence that sounds like a compromise. >> you sound like the new guardrails meta rolled out will be sufficient to keep trump in check. >> i don't know if they'll be sufficient to keep him in check but it is reasonable as long as
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facebook follows through. under our first amendment law which should inform facebook because it's one of the greatest decisions, if someone is saying or posting something that incites violence that is not protected speech. and if donald trump does that again like he was doing on january 6th there should be a clear consequence for that and he should be removed. so i guess the question is, are they going to enforce those guardrails? >> the question of what is inciting violence and what is tough tough is suggesting the election was stolen and directing supporters to target election officials in an unspecified manner is that tough talk or inciting violence? how do you draw the line and are you confident that internally meta has the systems and the personnel to make those very tough calls? >> alex, i think it's a great point. that's why they should look to first amendment jurisprudence.
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those calls are made all the time by judges. it has to be imminent, the threat, it has to be leading to violence, just tough words are not enough. that was "the new york times" versus sullivan, often to protect the civil rights moment or anti-vietnam protesters saying you can't just sensor speech if it is provocative. this first amendment protects not just conservatives but liberals but my concern is a private corporation like meta do they have the independent jurists to be making those decisions in the way that has the public trust. i guess that's my broader criticism you have a few people that are multibillionaires making these decisions about speech in society i understand the judges making it but now you have private companies making it. >> let me ask why meta is making this decision now. it's been two years since trump
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was taken off me facebook and instagram, yes. but we know they're calling the ceos of big tech up to the hill and asking them tough questions if not more about a perceived left wing bias. do you think this is an effort to curry favor, the replatforming of trump, do you think this is an effort to curry favor with house republicans now that they're running the show? >> i don't. i think they are sensitive, tech, to criticism from lawmakers on both side. when we were in the majority we were critical of the anti-trust issues with big tech and the lack of privacy issues. . here there are concerns of censorship but usually on the left more than the right. nine out of ten of the most popular sites are conservative sites not liberal sites. i think they looked at it as
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donald trump is a leading candidate for president for the republican party, like it or not, he may be the republican nominee and they didn't think they wanted him off modern public squares in that position. >> yeah, what we know from the january 6th committee, team purple, dedicated specifically to examine the role of social media in the january 6th election found a bias towards trump that some of his violent incitement was not censored in a way it should have been because tech companies were worried as being perceived as antitrump. congressman thank you for your time appreciate it. >> thank you. let's turn to nbc political analyst and author of "the persuaders". talk about a title for this conversation. so it's interesting, it's an
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conundrum. there's row khan saying i think this is the right call because donald trump is the candidate for president in the 2024 race. is the threat of violence has that subsided to the degree that it's safe to bring him back to the platform that in many ways made him. >> with respect to my brother, ro, who i love. the issue of censorship, what can governments do. and i think the question of whether a private platform would be wise to have a known inciter of insurrection and political violence back on the platform, it is a foolish choice what nick clegg is saying is disgraceful, the idea of political violence has receded since then. look, there's a comic side to this that is a man, mark zuckerberg, who invented an app
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because he was unable to talk to girls in college has ambled his way to building one of the most destructive platforms on earth that is now back in the hands of a man whose devoted to promoting violence and ending democracy in this country, so good for you mark zuckerberg. donating all your money to charity and trying to get these good marks while selling america down the river into autocracy. >> but what do you really think of facebook? >> where i would agree with the congressman is, i think this is, like it or not, the environment the political left is in. it's in an environment in which one platform or another or maybe all of them is going to invite this stuff back. they're going to stand with donald trump eventually for business reasons. i think the sea of disinformation is what it is as much as you and i might deplore it. i think the left needs to move
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beyond the hope of banning things, investigating and indicting people, deploring and getting mad. i think the only way to beat this menace is to out compete it, out organize it, build a bigger, more passionate movement than that movement. and the reality is, that's what the heart of "the persuaders" is about. i don't think such a movement is what we have right now, we could have. but at some level complaining to the ref is not a political strategy. >> i'm not ready to give up on the idea that trump being replatformed is a dangerous outfit that should be dealt with -- >> i think it should be but i don't think it will be. we've been waiting for mom and dad to come save us from bob mueller and years. >> for two years he was on the platform, there was a measure taken and that was meaningful to
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not have him on twitter, facebook, not advertise on lies destroying the democracy. that was a meaningful step which is now being reversed. i want to ask if you think there's any chance, i feel like i now know what your answer is going to be here. that facebook has the quote/unquote keepers of the guardrails that will do the job they need to do or whether the standards they're setting at the beginning of this are the right ones. i want to play more sound from haley jackson's interview with nick clegg. she pressures nick what the point is that he will be deplatformed. >> it sounds like what irsaying is if former president trump delegitimized the next election by lying about it, that's not enough to get him suspended. he has to do something that you believe would create real world and imminent harm, fair?
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>> yes. there's a distinction between accuracy and harm. people talk nonsense on the internet all the time. people say things that are half true, not true. we are not a truth police, never have been or seek to be. we have an obligation and responsibility to make sure people don't use our apps and services in a way that can lead to real world harm, violence and so on, and that's where we draw the line. >> we're not a truth police. he sees a church and state between people saying crazy things on the internet and real world violence and harm, there's not a link between the two. but we know factually that's not true. trump decrying the fbi for the raid on mar-a-lago leads to a man going to a cincinnati field office and trying to harm fbi officers with a nail gun. today he's truth socialing about january 6th being a false flag operation at the hands of the fbi. there is a meaningful consequence to these lies yet that seems lost on the officials
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at meta. what more evidence do people need that harmful rhetoric in the world of trump often leads to actual harm? >> i think there's no doubt of that connection. and a lot of the people who could educate us about that are dead right now. because of that incitement over the last many years. here's the thing, there's not a social media problem alone. this is a big business problem in the age of trump. if you are a regular person watching this who does not own or run a massive company, you have witnessed over the last six, seven years big companies in this country face a choice when there is a rising authoritarian movement on offer on the ballot that is yes, doing some good things for big business when it is actually in power. do big businesses that store your money, you know, that fly you places, that are where you trust for your work and your
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kids' lives and whatever else businesses do for us, do those businesses defend just the basic idea that you should live in a free society? it turns out almost none of them have lines. almost none of them have moral lines. what you illustrate tonight is one kind of expression of what we have realized across the financial sector, the aviation sector, across every sector in this country, none of these big businesses will put the people watching this above their own bottom line, shareholder interest. and so facebook is going to sell us down the river. it's incredible that these people in silicone valley like mark zuckerberg, who talked about liberating the world, empowering people, cheryl sandberg sold the lean in book telling women's thousands of years patriarchy was a
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posture problem. these people aren't going to save us. i say the only answer is building a bigger more powerful attractive movement on the other side. everything else is a distraction. >> thank you for joining us. it's great to see you. florida governor ron desantis said an ap course on african american studies quote lacks educational value. we'll head to florida to discuss the push back today in the sunshine today. and kevin mccarthy said he will hold george santos to the quote same standard as everyone else in congress. i'm not sure about that. congressman jamal bowman joins me next to discuss. that's next. that's next.
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he's lied about his past, he's admitted to lying about his past. you've stood by him. are you standing by him simply because if he resigns that could cost you a seat? >> no. you know what i'm standing behind him, because his constituents voted for him. >> that was house speaker kevin mccarthy attempting to clarify his decision to stand by george santos despite the incredible web of lies george santos has spun about everything from his volleyball stardom to his mba to his wall street career to his brain tumor to his survival of
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an assassination attempt. and yesterday he made a revision to his 2022 campaign filings. saying that a $500,000 didn't come from his personal funds. and now they have the potential to land santos in potential legal jeopardy. so what does the leader of the gop caucus, kevin mccarthy what does he do with george santos? yesterday he vowed to hold santos to the same standards he holds other members of congress. let's look at that. party leaders, including kevin mccarthy announced a zero tolerance policy for members caught up in embarrassing controversies. those standards were quickly put to the test. in february of 2011, chris lee of new york was caught trying to meet women through the personals
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section of craigs list, do you remember this one? no delay in this case, republicans wanted chris lee gone and he resigned. then in 2014, vance mccal terof louisiana was filmed kissing a staffer who was not his wife and kevin mccarthy and his fellow gop friends said, no, you have to go. and vance mcallister resigned. less than a decade later those standards have been lowered a lot. because kevin mccarthy didn't just hold that press conference yesterday to tell the country he was basically okay for now or maybe forever with george santos santos' lies he also said he was kicking off adam schiff and eric swalwell from the intelligence
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committee because they lied to people. he said he intends to remove ilhan omar from the house foreign affairs committee because of past comments she made about israel. comments she apologized for. george santos with potential campaign finance violations and a completely fabricated resume, kevin mccarthy told his conference, george santos will continue serving on two committees unless the house ethics committee determines he's broken a law because you know, integrity matters. joining us to discuss this is congressman jamal bowman. it's great to see you. how is the mood inside the democratic caucus as we see these decisions on the part of the speaker of the house? >> the democratic caucus is focused, laser-like focused on
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winning the house back in 2024. we're going to do everything in our power to implement the legislation that we passed, the historic legislation that we've passed over the last two years. so that is our focus. we're also going to continue to draw the contrast between the dysfunctional circus that is the republican party and democrats delivering for the american people. what's dangerous is republicans are engaging in psychological warfare against the american people. they consistently lie, they consistently mislead, they consistently use misinformation to act as if that is the way you are supposed to govern. what it does, it creates fear, uncertainty, and frustration amongst the american people and it leads the american people to further distrust their elected officials and turns them away from the political process.
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and what happens -- what does that lead to? that leads to people not voting. which is the only way republicans can win. they can't win on the issues. they have to lie and mislead and create fear and dysfunction and chaos. look at what happened january 6th. and now they're forming a sham committee to investigate absolutely nothing. and they allow santos to serve on committees while going after three democrats who have more character and integrity and leadership in their pinkie finger than kevin mccarthy has had his entire career. >> i fully appreciate and i think it's not said enough the really cancerous effect that all this lying and deceit and well poisoning has on american democracy. it makes us a less participatory
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democracy. that's a deeply cynical strategy if that is the strategy of the gop. but it seems to be the weird sigh ops as democrats. they looked at everything democrats did, whether it's investigating interference, national security on january 6th and flip on it its head now we're in this strange universe where republicans are spending time in congress gaslighting democrats. there have to be freshmen, swing people inside the republican caucus who are looking at this saying this is insane. is there any conversation happening between democrats and the republicans who see what's going on and saying this is how we lose power? >> so yes, and that's something that gives me optimism and gives me hope. as we were going through the process of the 15 votes that lead to speaker mccarthy there were republicans walking over to the democrats side, walking to
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people like me and telling me this is bs. the far right in our party, they've already received all the concessions that they wanted. and they're still dragging this thing out for attention, for fund-raising. and for whatever else they want to have the american focus on. so there are still some principled republicans that actually want to govern. some. not a lot. there's still too many maga republicans, still too many extremist republicans. i have republicans now coming up to me from different parts of the country, rural parts of the country who want to have coffee, sit down, get to know me and build relationships. that's what leadership is. that's what governing is. unfortunately there are too many republicans still beholden to trump, maga, qanon, january 6th and now mccarthy and jim jordan and god only knows where they're
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going to take us. the more dysfunctional we are, the more we give power to the wealthy elite in our country who control members of congress in the first place because of big money, dark money and politics, and those are the donors who support the republicans we're talking about. so this is an insidious plan that is almost an insurrection from within, similar to the insurrection that happened from without on january 6th. >> the more you at toe at row fee the federal government, the more power there is out in corporations. you mentioned marjorie taylor greene sitting on a committee that is tasked for investing covid-19. so now the toks is sitting on top of the hen house.
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and you have ben bishop sitting on the weaponization of the federal government committee. these committees they are going to be circuses of course but congress has business to do. my question is, what is the attitude of democrats who are in the minority seated on some of these committees, what is the posture going to be as the clowns run the clown show? >> first of all, i wish marjorie taylor greene was still on the education and workforce committee so i could eviscerate her when she comes on that committee. but my colleagues are going to e viz rate them as well because they're going to come with misinformation, alternative facts, lack of peer reviewed research and my colleagues are going to shred them and it's going to happen publically. to your point, we have business to do in evolving our democracy towards what it can be.
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and this republican-led house is going to show it doesn't have the ability to do that. what helps us win back the house in 2024, it's going to help us grow our numbers in the senate because we have to deal with the issue of democracy reform, inequality, woman's right to choose, real gun legislation that bans assault rifles and so many other areas of policy that we have to work on that this party is incapable of working on because they're so beholden to remnants and tenants of white supremacy. >> democratic congressman for new york's 16th congressional district part of the new york delegation that has congressman george santos in it, i'll get those stories from you later. congressman jamal bowman thanks for your time as always. >> thank you so much. just ahead, ron desantis wants to decide how african american studies should be taught in florida schools and today he received a legal
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discourse shouldn't happen in a vacuum. it's important to zoom out a bit. in 2019 there was a shooting at a california bowling alley that left three dead and four injured. i'm sure now you have seen images of the monterey park shooter found in his white fan after the shooting saturday night, that was found 500 feet from the site of the 2019 shooting, which is a two minute walk. you don't need to even leave the parking lot. shootings like this happen so often that proximity is bound to happen. there have been 40 mass shootings in the u.s. so far this year, we are 25 days in and there have been 40 mass shootings. you can examine the motives and mental health issues of mass shootings forever and you will find overlaps but like this parking lot in torrance, california, that is not the factor here. this parking lot is not somehow
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a magnet for mass shootings these shootings just happen that often. the one through line here, is that guns are incredibly easy to obtain. in 2019, kamala harris tweeted that her heart broke for the victims of the torrance bowling alley shooting. tonight, vice president kamala harris is again responding to another california mass shooting. she brought flowers to the site earlier and is now meeting with families of the victims. as she was leaving the site she had this to say. >> can this congress to do anything? >> they absolutely can. they have the power to. can they do something, yes. should they do something, yes. will they do something, that is where we all must speak up. we'll be right back. where we all must speak up we'll be right back.
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so call now for free information and you'll also get this free beneficiary planner. and it's yours free just for calling. so call now for free information. for 93 years this monument to the confederacy sat outside the courthouse in braidington, florida. it honors the traders who lost the civil war. it was a gift from the local chapter of the united daughters of the confederacy who unveiled it in 1924 at an event. this tribute came almost 60 years after the end of the civil war. the united daughters of the
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confederacy, helped shift the narrative of the civil war by rewriting and sanitizing history and literature. in 2017 after the deadly protests over the robert e. lee statue. they voted to remove the statue and put it in an equally prominent respectful location but the monument toppled over as it was removed and broke into pieces which were then placed in storage. five years later, man tee county has new commissioners, all republicans, who have voted support for an effort to not only put the pieces of that confederate memorial back together but to reinstall it at the manatee county courthouse. that matter is listed as an agenda item next tuesday.
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manatee county could find itself in the position of erecting a monument to the confederacy in the year 2023, because those century-old efforts to shift the narrative of the civil war, those efforts are alive and well in the state of florida. last spring, ron desantis signed into law a bill that requires schools to publish lists of all school library content and requires a specialist to select all reading materials based on vague state academic standards. basically if governor desantis believes a book will indoctrinate florida youth, schools can be slapped with a felony if it's on a school library shelf. that law is in effect now which is why bookshelves look like this. books papered over with stick key -- stickey notes saying
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closed by order of the governor. this week, governor desantis rejected an advanced placement course on african american studies because he said he believed it pushed an agenda. but today attorney ben crump threatened to file a lawsuit over the administration's decision to reject that ap course on african american studies. >> desantis or anybody exterminate black history in the classrooms across america? >> no. >> yeah, what this really is about is saying, you cannot exterminate us. you cannot exterminate our
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culture. and you can never experiment -- exterminate the value of our children to this world. >> joining us now is frederick ingram, former president of the florida education association, he also spoke at the press conference today. mr. ingram, thank you for being here today. let me start with what you have heard from teachers who are in the classrooms trying to navigate this treacherous terrain. >> sure. listen, thank you for having me. as a floridan, i'm embarrassed. as a parent i'm appalled and as an educator i'm concerned. this is what we're hearing from educators. this is not the first strike or blow to african american or the education system or teachers at large. this is one of many steps that ron desantis has done, he has banned books in florida, he has tried to suppress teacher
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voices. he has tried to take over school boards. this is just one in the many idioms that he is doing to try to educate some of our children and not educate others. this is appalling. this is something that we should be concerned about because he's putting politics squarely on the backs of our children, on the backs of our hardworking teachers. we should be talking about what our students need, the communities they need, the books they're reading, the curriculums that we need actually to educate our children. we're talking about ron desantis banning an ap, african american course, between the window of the commemoration of dr. martin luther king and the beginning of black history month. what an insult to african americans at large and how concerned we should be as a society. >> and the timing of it as you
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point out is egregious on the eve of black history month. as we talk about this, the measures he has enacted which are specific and pernicious but there is also the climate of fear that he has established which casts a much wider net over the classroom, does it not? it's not that he's banned every book but made it so teachers are self-censoring in their lessons and, b, not even dealing with school libraries, not wanting to loan out books for fear of getting slapped with a felony. what are they telling you about how they can teach in an environment like this? >> our history is good, bad, and some ugly. we want to teach the truth. we want to give kids the information so they can grow up and be good deciders in our society, so they can make decisions in the best interest of themselves, their families, communities, and they can give back to our democracy. that's what our teachers want
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but teachers are scared right now. we have history teachers that don't know whether to teach slavery or teach reconstruction or civil rights or what, you know, exactly is going to get them in trouble. we have a gotcha kind of politics going on where ron desantis has taken over school boards, is trying to strong arm our hardworking teachers and our teachers are speaking with their feet because we have over 5,000 classrooms in the state of florida that do not have a certified teacher. and that's direct connection to what's happening to our classrooms by this current administration. >> so teachers are leaving the classroom because they don't want to deal with this. what about the students who don't get taught slavery that year, don't learn about reconstruction, don't learn about the civil rights era. it's not like you can do tenth grade again or 11th grade or whatever it is.
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where are they going for information? >> this is a democracy. we should be concerned our students get all the information they need. let me highlight where they are getting african american history. we have four hbcus in the state of florida. i'm proud of what they're doing to teach that history. but this is an ap class that should be offered to our students in our high schools. it would take the best and brightest to take the class, they have to self-select this class. not having the opportunity to take the class is a disservice. when you don't know what your history is, i'm paraphrasing, you're failed and doomed to repeat history. we don't want to repeat bad history. we want to educate our kids and ap african american history is american history. black people, african americans have been at the fiber of everything good in this country, from perseverance, to making
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sure we promote our culture through art and song and dance, and education. so as mary mccloud would tell you, one of the greatest educators i have ever known, she would tell you leave these children with love. leave them with a sense of zeal so they never lose their thirst for building a better world and we do it through our classrooms and education. >> frederick ingram, former president of the florida education association. thank you for your time tonight and good luck in the struggle. >> thank you. thank you very much. we'll be right back. you thank you very much. we'll be right back.
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ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. i screwed up. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles.
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that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. that's the show for this evening we'll see you to take legal action. why her lawyer says school officials failed to act. social media returns. meta is allowing former president trump back on facebook and instagram. what he is saying about the decision. >> good morning, good
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