right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. right now. good evening, alex. alex. chris, you make such a good point. it is really hard to speak broadly about the economy when inequality is so piercing, to give one big assessment about how it feels to be financially secure in this country when

it -- >> that is the weird thing about the american economy. you can look at the macroeconomics but it feels different to be in it. in the broad aggregate sense, it is way better than i feared it would be. >> we'll take that statement and run with it. thanks for joining us. one of the many revelations to come out of the january 6 committee hearings was bill barr describing how he pushed back against the election fraud claims. he called them complete b.s. despite the heroic headlines generated by barr's testimony, it is a good point to remember that barr did not say anything publicly debunking those same claims of election fraud until december 1, which was nearly a month after the 2020 election. in fact, before his post-trump rehabilitation tour, this was the bill barr we knew.

>> what happened to the president in the 2016 election and throughout the first two years of his administration was abhorrent. it was a grave injustice and it was unprecedented in american history. the law enforcement and intelligence apparatus of this country were involved in advancing a false and utterly baseless russian collusion narrative against the president. the proper investigative and prosecuting standards were abused in my view in order to reach a particular result. the durham investigation is trying to get to the bottom of what happened. i think spying on a political campaign is a big deal. i think there is spying that did occur. my own view is that the evidence

shows that we're not dealing with just mistakes or slo sloppiness. there is something far more troubling here and we'll get to the bottom of it. but i think what happened to him was one of the greatest travesties in american history. >> that is the bill barr we knew for the years of the trump administration. trump's attorney general spent the vast majority of his time do everything he could to cast doubts on investigations into trump. he argued that the doj and fbi, institutions that he oversaw, were somehow part of a deep state plot to overthrow president trump. barr a pointed john durham, career justice department prosecutor to investigate the origins of the intelligence community's investigation into trump and his 2016 campaign dealings with russia. right before the 2020 election, barr would promote durham to special counsel protecting his work from any future doj's

grasp. and spk durham did get to the bottom of it, but after nearly four years of investigating it appears as though there was nothing at the bottom. john durham lost the two key cases he brought to trial, they both ended in acquittals. the one guilty plea he did secure ended with no prison time. so despite what donald trump and bill barr would like you to believe, i don't know durham it seems found no evidence of what bill barr had called one of the greatest travesties in american history, which really undermines the very notion that there was a travesty to begin with. and today in a bombshell piece at the "new york times" we're learning new details about bill barr and john durham's efforts to craft a counternarrative that trump was in fact a victim of a deep state plot. here is a headline. barr pressed durham to find flaws and it didn't go well. the "times" reports that they would often meet weekly in barr's office together and drink scotch.

as the "times" reports, john durham soon became a true believer in the mold of bill barr as he was drawn into his personal orbit, durham became to embrace the intense feelings about the russia investigation. probably the most explosive revelation in the "times" piece is that while on a foreign trip to europe, barr and durham received a credible tip linking donald trump to suspected financial crimes. rather than assign it to a different prosecutor, perhaps someone less inclined to drink scotch with him, barr told tir ham to investigate it himself and mr. durham never filed charges and it remains unclear what level of an investigation it was, what steps he took, what he learned and whether anyone at the white house ever found out. the extraordinary fact that durham opened a criminal investigation that included scrutinizing trump has remained secret. the investigator who was supposed to be investigating, excuse the reference, the investigators, special counsel

john durham, opened a criminal inquiry into then president donald trump. but no one knows what came of it. instead, the report dives into just how committed bill barr was to making sure the durham probe uncovered something as long as it seems that that something didn't target president trump. the "times" reports that in one meeting barr, quote, repeating a sexual vulgarity, warned the nsa wronged him by not doing all he could to help durham, barr would do the same to the agency. you probably get the idea. months out from the election and with no sign of imminent action from john durham, trump began putting public pressure on the men through tv interviews and fox news. here was the headline out of one interview in august, trump lays down the gauntlet for barr on durham probe, either greatest attorney general or average guy. there you have it. we also learned from the "times" that when barr and durham could not find anything regarding abuses by the intelligence

community, then attorney general barr and durham turned their sights to the hillary clinton conspiracy. in other words when durham came up empty handed, they chased down a new hypothesis, hillary clinton and her campaign had colluded with the government to push a trump/russia conspiracy because when all else fails, there is also the number one enemy, hillary clinton. by summer 2020 with election day approaching, mr. barr pressed mr. durham to draft a interim report centered on the clinton campaign. while durham never ended up releasing this report, the shear desperation to give trump a hail mary in the months before the election is astonishing. it became clear in the months leading up to the election that there was absolutely no evidence of a team state conspiracy against donald trump. so what did bill barr do?

quote, by summer 2020, it was clear that the hunt for evidence supporting barr's hunch about intelligence abuses had failed. but barr waited until after the 2020 election to publicly concede that there had turned out to be no such sign of foreign government activity and that the cia had stayed in its lane after. i am so pleased to be joined by senior member of robert mueller's special counsel team that investigated the russia interference, the great andrew weissmann. thanks for being here. i had to pick my jaw up off the floor after reading this piece. what was your initial reaction to this? >> well, first i reacted to it in terms of the journalism. this is the a-plus team at the "new york times." if people have not read it, they really need to. it is beautifully sourced and beautifully written. and you know if it is this team,

they will have kicked all of the tires. that was my first reaction. i wasn't surprised to read about barr. i in part lived through his actions and we were the victims of his actions. so that didn't surprise me. to me it was more of the same on that. i was surprised by the various revelations, the fact that there were not one but three prosecutors who resigned, the reasons for their resignations which you surmised but did not know. and then the italy piece was beyond shocking and this sort of leaving it out there that this was really wrongdoing that was being investigated related to the fbi when it was actually donald trump and then to give it to durham with no sort of public disclosure about this is just a sign of, you know, what the house republicans call the

weaponization of the department of justice? i mean, are they going to look at this? this entire article is exhibit "a" to how the department of justice was weaponized by bill barr and donald trump and they saw no separation between the political sphere and the department of justice. whatever you say about merrick garland, that is not his fault. he is independent. so this is a really good example of exactly what could go wrong when the department of justice is weaponized, which is something that happened in the prior administration and no evidence it is happening now. >> to go back to what you are talking about, for those who don't recall, there was a moment when it became clear that there was a criminal investigation happening in the context of this durham probe. as we find out today in the "new york times," the criminal investigation wasn't into the intelligence community or agents, it was into donald trump. and yet when the news broke about just the criminal aspect of all this, most people thought

that meant that there had been wrongdoing at one of the agencies. and bill barr chose to not clear that up. >> absolutely. because we all knew what the purview was for john durham so if durham was looking at it, you knew that to be within that scope. and he did nothing to correct that. do you really sitting here think that john durham and bill barr did a thorough assessment of that? it is not like they looked for it. this was the italian government according to the reporting that gave them this tip. and it was apparently so convincing that they couldn't ignore it. but does anyone really think that this was investigated thoroughly? i mean, when i was with the mueller investigation, we would have loved to have that information. >> yeah, i know some investigators who would are used that. first of all, this -- the durham probe is not over yet. are we ever going to find out what that criminal investigation was? is there someone else at the doj

who could take it over? given the fact that these guys were so reluctant do anything that was damaging to trump, the fact that they felt it was necessary to investigate this, suggests that it is something fairly significant in the way of criminal wrongdoing. >> so it doesn't fit with the multiple special counsels that we currently have. there could be more, but right now it doesn't fit within the purview of what jack smith has or rob hur. but you can imagine that with this reporting that merrick garland will be curious, and there is a good chance they don't know already. john durham would have had to have told them about this and laid out all the facts. maybe he did. but if he didn't, they will look at this and decide whether it is something that needs to be pursued and whether for instance the scope of what jack smith is supposed to look at gets folded

into that. >> this is the danger of appointing a special counsel, right? >> exactly. >> you've seen the politicization of the doj under bill barr's stewardship. i was still shocked by it. it was out there to be seen. but the idea that he is back there drinking scotch with john durham and that the atmosphere becomes poisonous and part is an enough that prosecutors are leaving the office. i mean, you've been on the inside of an investigation. what does it take to get people to resign in fury like that? >> is -- by the way i think my view of bill barr, the reason i wasn't shocked is i may be starting at such a low point this was just confirmatory. >> you lived a different experience. >> i lived through that honesty where there was a public letter reporting to be a summary of the mueller report which we internally knew was completely false. >> oh, yes. >> completely misleading to the

american public. and having to wait for the report to come out knowing what bill barr was up to. so that sort of is one piece. to resign the way the least two or possibly three people did is huge. there has to be something that you find so sort of unpalatable in terms of ethics that you are going to resign. and that is in fact what the reporting is with respect to the number two, somebody who is very close to john durham, nora denehy, resigned. and according to the reporting issued a formal written statement to the group about what was improper about what was going on and how they should not be issuing this sort of interim report to play politics at bill barr's and donald trump's request. and then the second was before they brought charges against a sort of clinton affiliated

lawyer, two of the prosecutors said the evidence is way too thin and also this wouldn't have been brought against anyone else, the second part of what a prosecutor has to do, even if there is appropriate evidence, it is not can we bring a case, it is should we bring it. and they had objections to both. that is really significant. you shouldn't have that kind of dissension in the ranks. i've never experienced that where something's happening that is that inappropriate. >> when you talk about -- when we talk about the various ways in which barr was trying to undermine the good investigative work that was done at the department, there was an inspector general's report that was going to come out and basically say that the agencies did nothing wrong here, that there was perfectly good reason to investigate the trump/russia ties. and barr effectively gets out in front of it minutes before the inspector general's report comes

out basically saying all clear for the agencies, they did nothing wrong here, barr preempts it with his own announcement. which was a very eerie echo to the thing that happened to you with the mueller report, right? before we get the report, barr is out there preemptively undermining the work that has been done and suggesting that something wrong, something wicked comes. >> and with no evidence. and so that was quintessential barr for everything that is bad about him, and i loved your opening because it reminds people the new barr is not the new barr. he is still the old barr. >> he's still bill barr. >> exactly. but that was the first sign that john durham had lost his way. because if you remember he issues a statement also saying, well, i know more than the inspector general and i disagree with him. and that is not done. if you are doing an

investigation, you either bring a charge or you don't. and it turns out that when all the facts came out, it was on the most minor issue about an internal fbi rule, this is something i know very well from my prior job, about when you can open a preliminary investigation versus an assessment versus a full. which is not something that john durham knows anything about, it is not in his wheelhouse, it is an fbi internal rule. and that is not what he fronted, not what he told the public. he made it sound like you really can't trust the inspector general because i know more. and that is when i think that all of us at the department and people who had graduated from the department thought, you know what, there is a problem because john durham has really changed his reputation for being sort of a career guy and straight shoot shooter, something has happened, he has lost his way. that was really the first sign of it. >> and i'd love to know what the

scotch was. it was something good because this is someone who really seemed to have a personality lobotomy in the course of his interactions with bill barr who did inexcusable things to the impression of the integrity of our intelligence agencies. >> absolutely. >> such a pleasure to have you on. i'm sorry that you had to go through what you had to go through. i'm sure this is triggering in some fashion. >> it is. >> but so great to talk with you about it. thanks for your time. andrew weissmann, great to see you. and we have a lot more to talk about tonight including how all the concessions kevin mccarthy made in order to get the gavel has started to backfire. and tomorrow the republican party meets to pick their next chair. what it means for the current de facto leader, that is next. t de facto leader, that is next

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it is not exactly a secret that during his four years in office donald trump effectively took control of the republican party, but perhaps nowhere was that takeover apparent than at the republican national committee. after trump took office, trump loyalists effectively took over the rnc. the staunch trump ally became head of the party after trump tapped reince priebus to be his

chief of staff. loyalists began to fill open seats on the committee and key trump allies became the finance chairs in charge of the party's national fund raise. that led to embarrassing headlines when one by one the trump backed finance chairs became embroiled in their own scandals ranging from allegations of rampant sexual misconduct to foreign construction schemes. but throughout those scandals, the rnc remained effectively an extension of trump world promoting trump businesses and featuring him in fundraising emails. the rnc spent $300,000 of their donors' money buying copies of donald trump jr.'s book. trump even involved the rnc in his fake elector scheme to try to overturn the 2020 election. but now that cozy relationship between trump and the national republican party may be coming to an end. according to the "new york times," members of the rnc, some of whom were noted trump

backers, those members are now expressing doubts about backing trump again in 2024. the "new york times" called, emailed or texted all 168 rnc members, just four offered an una barbed endorsement of trump's 2024 campaign. 20 said the former president should not be the party's nominee. an additional 35 said they would like to see a big primary field or declined to state their position on mr. trump and the remainder did not respond to messages. the move away from trump comes as the party is being roiled by an internal battle between ronna mcdaniel and conservative challenger. tomorrow the rnc will hold an election for its chairmanship and though mcdaniel is expected to win, she is facing surprisingly strong challenge from harmeet dhillon. and she picked up her most important endorsement yet.

>> i think we need a change, i think that we need to get new blood in the rnc. i like what dhillon has said. i think that it will be very difficult to energize people to want to give money, to want on volunteer their time with the rnc if they don't see a change in direction. >> joining us now is mike murphy, republican strategist and co-host of the podcast hacks on tap. mike, really no one better to talk to about this inter-party thank you. is there a battle for the soul of the republican party and if so, do you see truly ringing alarm bells for the former president donald trump. >> well, yeah, i mean, i think the "new york times" story today reflected what a lot of us in the party world hear, which is

tremendous frustration at losing. even people that trump put on the committee, you know, we're doing worse than the washington generals, the team that is paid to lose to the globe trotters. so there is frustration. so what you are seeing in the rnc race is kind of the trump guard on the defense about an election that trump and his acolytes helped blow. so ron in a mcdaniel is really on the defensive. dhillon is saying these clowns don't know how to win an election, but there is not evidence that she knows how to either. her coalition is the hardest cough of the rnc and pragmatic party regulators who just want to get ronna mcdaniel romney out of there because they think it is keystone cop city.

so ronna is favored and the rnc is a very inside election, only 178 votes, they don't really like outsiders. but as you saw in the "new york times," they want a change. so it is not impossible that harmeet upsets this thing, but it would be a shocker. desantis has made it a proxy battle in a smaller way between him and trump. i can't figure out the smart move for him here because now ronna who is able to hang on, that is a win for trump at a time when the "new york times" showed us the rnc a bunch of those members that used to be hardcore trump all the way are now looking for something new. >> what i don't get, there is a lot of reporting on this about the way in which ronna romney mcdaniel -- i know she wants me to stop saying romney -- of is being blamed for the party's

losses. "the hill" says that some are calling for ronna to step down. and i had to laugh because it is like do you know why the party lost? it is not because of ronin a ronna mcdaniel. it is because the party has been led off a cliff by donald trump ronna mcdaniel. it is because the party has been led off a cliff by donald trump. the fact that harmee techltt can put together conservatives, they are talking about new pizza and just changing the box. they need to change the actual pizza. i don't know why i'm using that metaphor, but i think it is appropriate at this moment. >> you're right, there is -- no, no, they are fighting over the can while the dogs won't get near the dog food. so ronna takes a lot of heat for the failed thing, but she is a

rubber stamp for trump. hell, buying $300,000 of donald trump jr.'s book? you know, i'd rather do a weekend at guantanamo than have to read that thing and let alone blowing party money. so she is catching blame for being a trump right hand because harmeet can say i'm new and better, she is kind of dodging the question. a good message, but she doesn't have the answer either. she's in the kari lake business. so it is the presidential primaries that will find the soul of the republican party. this is a side show, but not an important one because the organization is too powerful and important. >> and we have reporting that in which new hampshire and south carolina people are still very much on the fence when it comes to donald trump. did desantis have a play to make here? trump may be off putting to a lot of people, but he is a dynamic candidate.

how in danger do you actually think he is in terms of his role at the top of the party? >> well, look, you can never underestimate trump, but if you ask republicans are you favorable of trump, 85% of them, maybe 80% now, say oh, great president, wonderful, still my red hat. you ask those same people do you want the president to be trump next time, it drops down to 45%. half of them run away as fast as they can. so there is an opening on desantis who on paper has a lot going on. but that said, it is early and running for president is like going through 500 car washes. and desantis has been through two car washes. so i don't know if he has the long term legs, but he is the strongest position guy now in the early moves and he is the one that, you know, activists are starting to take the first hard look at. so he is the anti-trump, but we have a long time to go. no shortage of republicans who privately want to take out trump and run for president. >> 500 car washes and only two

down. a lot of car washes. >> yes. >> always good to see you. republican strategist, hacks on tap, thanks for your time, mike. we have much more to come including why this dummy hand grenade may be the perfect metaphor for the kevin mccarthy-led congress. stay with us. in mccarthy-led congress. stay with us before dexcom g6, my diabetes was out of control. i was tired. not having the energy to do the things that i wanted to do. before dexcom g6, i was frustrated. all of that finger-pricking and all of that pain, my a1c was still stuck. there is a better way to manage diabetes. the dexcom g6 continuous glucose monitoring system eliminates painful fingersticks, helps lower a1c, and it's covered by medicare. before dexcom g6, i couldn't enjoy a single meal. i was always trying to out-guess my glucose and it was awful. (female announcer) dexcom g6 is a small wearable

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what i'm about to show you next is difficult to watch. and the pattern here is even more difficult to live with. on april 4, 2015 in north charleston, south carolina, he was driving with a broken taillight when an officer stopped him for that traffic infraction. he ran into a grassy lot. the officer began chasing him on foot before firing a taser. when he continued to flee, the officer fired eight shots at his back. when his limp body fell to the ground the officer yelled put your hands behind your back. he died from those gunshots. his name was walter scott and he was 50 years old. on july 10th, 2015 in waller county, texas she was on her way to the grocery store when police pulled her over for failing to signal a lane change. when she refused an officer's request to put out her

cigarette, the officer reached into her car and threatened to yank her out. when she began recording the altercation, he pulled out his tad taser and said this -- >> get out of the car. i will light you up. >> for failure to signal you're doing all of this. >> he threw her to the ground with her voice cracking she told him she had epilepsy and her head had hit the ground. he responded good. they arrested her and took her to the waller county jail. when she was found dead, her death was ruled a suicide. her name was sandra bland, she was 28 years old. on april 11th, 2021 in brooklyn center, minnesota he was pulled over for expired registration tags. the officers conducting the traffic stop tried to detain him when they realized he had an outstanding warrant. when he tried to step back into his car, officers began to

tussle with him. one officer warned that she would use her taser and then fired a bullet into his chest. his car took off, crashed, and he was pronounced dead at the scene. his name was daunte wright. he was 20 years old. this kind of fatal traffic stop has happened all across the country over and over again. according to the nonprofit research group mapping police violence, police kill about 1100 people each year. 10% of those deaths involve traffic stops. and they disproportionately involve black drivers. the lives of black drivers are so frequently threatened during these stops that when parents of black children teach their kids how to drive, they also try to teach them how to survive, they give them the talk, what do if you are pulled over, how to talk to the police so that you come home alive at the end of the day. parents must educate their children on how to survive the threat of state sanctioned

violence. despite that preparation, this fatal use of force against black people keeps happening. and it happened again on january 7 in memphis, tennessee. he was pulled over on suspicion of reckless driving. five officers approached his car where a confrontation occurred and pepper spray was used. when he ran away, police followed him. police say there was another confrontation when they tried to arrest him. at that point he was injured and complained of shortness of breath. an ambulance took him to the hospital. his family took this photo of him with blood on his face apparently unconscious with a swollen eye. he died on january 10th just yards away from his mother's home. an autopsy found that he suffered extensive bleeding caused by a severe beating. his name was tyre nichols. he was 29 years old. and in this case there is no video -- yet. today six days after the five officers who stopped nichols

that night were fired, those same officers were arrested and charged with second degree murder, aggravated assault, aggravated kidnapping and four other charges. an attorney for two of the officers says that they will plead not guilty. all five former officers are black. and all five are agents of the state who targeted and killed a black motorist. the shelby county district attorney added this during a press conference announcing the charges -- >> while each of the five individuals played a different role in the incident in question, the actions of all of them resulted in the death of tyre nichols and they are all responsible. nothing we do today or did today precludes the addition of any further charges. >> the d.a. announced that footage from the traffic stop will be released tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. when tyre nichols' mother watched the footage on monday,

she was not able to finish it.director of the tennessee bureau of investigation and memphis county police chief described what appear in the video this way -- >> i'm sickened by what i saw. and what we've learned through our extensive and thorough investigation, i've seen the video and as d.a. stated, you will too. in a word, it is absolutely appalling. >> this incident was heinous, reckless and inhumane. and in the vein of transparency, when the video is released in the coming days, you will see this for yourselves. i expect you to feel what the knicknichols family feels, i expect you to feel outrage in the disregard of basic human rights. >> officials are bracing for protests even fully activating local police departments in some places. the nichols family, local

leaders and even president biden are urging the country to protest peacefully after the footage is released. for families in memphis and across the country, this pattern, this violence is personal. millions of people live in fear that the next time they or their child or their partner is driving to the grocery store or driving with a broken taillight or in a hurry, we might wind up saying their names too. names to y before it starts by temporarily delaying ovulation—and you can resume your regular birth control right away. i've got this. ♪♪

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today cory mills brought his fellow house members grenades along with a letter explaining its significance in case for some reason you didn't immediately interpret being handed a grenade in the right way. the letter read welcoming you to a mission oriented 118th congress. i'm eager to get to work for the american people. i'm honored to be a part of the armed services and foreign affairs committees. it is my pleasure to give you a grenade made for an mk 19 grenade launcher. and at the bottom of the letter there was a little note about how the grenades were inert. maybe put that part first next time. of course this was a publicity stunt, but it is also a perfect metaphor for house republicans right now because house

republicans keep getting really close to blowing each other up and their entire party, figuratively speaking of course. tonight marks a week since the u.s. government hit its debt limit. treasury department says it can use creative accounting to keep the government running until somewhere around early june, but after that, the government could default and potentially throw the entire global economy into chaos. of course the only thing stopping the u.s. from raising the debt limit and avoiding all of that are house republicans and their fake grenades. kevin mccarthy and his caucus have been incredibly up front that they are using this looming potential catastrophe to their advantage holding the nation's debt hostage to get what they want. republicans have done that before, but this time there is one key difference. republicans don't know what they want, but they know that they will fight like hell to get it. marjorie taylor greene for example said there have to be cuts in spending for her to agree to a raise in the debt limit. but when asked what should be

cut, she would i haven't really formulated an exact list. joining us now is brendan buck, former senior adviser to republican speakers paul ryan and john boehner. thank you for being here. sorry that every time i speak but, it seems to be like a crisis moment for the republican party. but i know there is a lot of comparison between this debt limit raise and the previous crisis around the debt limit that you were a part of back in the house. not that you were creating it, but you were a part of the negotiations. and this time feels different. not just because we're in 00 different landscape and there are different actor, but as dan pfeiffer says in a politico article, john boehner may have been willing to put mostof his butt on the line, he did substantive understand why default was terrible. i'm not sure mccarthy understands that, that he cares and that mccarthy would value the full faith and credit of the u.s. over his own job. do you agree with that, is that

where we're at right now? >> i don't necessarily agree with it entirely. i think that kevin mccarthy clearly understands the consequences that we're dealing with. i think the difference here was in 2011, we all had confidence that barack obama and john boehner were not going to let something really bad happen. i don't think kevin mccarthy wants something really bad to happen and he knows it would be really bad if we went over the limit here. but what he is dealing with is a conference that is just so much further to the right than what we dealt with. we were very conservative in 2011, don't get me wrong, but it is a cast of cast of characters who think that their job is to blow things up and have chaos. you outlined it really well, nobody has really formulated their view of what needs to be done here. in 2011, we set a standard, a framework, we communicated for a really long time about what we were trying to accomplish. this just feels like they rolled out of bed one day and said we'll hold hostage the debt limit and have not communicated

to anybody within themselves, the public, what it is they are trying to do or get out of this. so they are making it up as they go along. this is serious stuff of course. so i think they need to be a little more deliberate and reasonable about what they are trying to accomplish. because right now it seems like their leverage may be we might be crazy enough to go over the debt limit. and that is a scary place to be. i don't know how they resolve it. >> and i appreciate your sort of defense of mccarthy's appreciation that going past the debt, going over the cliff is not something that he wants, but the question, is he going to do anything to prevent us from doing that, will he risk his job? there are democrats that would, you know, vote for a clean debt raise. there is a way to do this that doesn't create global financial calamity, but would endanger kevin mccarthy's standing with the far right wing of the caucus. what we saw in the speaker's fight, it feels like he'll do anything to keep ahold of that

gavel. it is impossible to imagine john boehner making every concession under the sun just to hold on to the speak are's gavel but yet that is something kevin mccarthy did. >> it is a totally fair question. i think there is a real possibility that he has to face the choice, the question, of bring up a bill that probably upsets a lot of your conference and face their wrath or go over the lichlts. limit. i think he will ultimately choose to bring that bill up, but it will be hard to execute. i don't know what it will look like, but i do think that there will be that moment in june or july where he has to make that decision. and it may cost him a motion to vacate. he may survive that, they may kick him out, but i do think that is a very real possibility and those are the stakes we're dealing with. i just think that kevin mccarthy is probably -- i don't think that he is willing to risk economic catastrophe for his job. >> that is a big think. one last one for you, brendan. mitch mcconnell was seen at a

bipartisan event with joe biden as kevin mccarthy was having this speaker's vote debacle and now his wife elaine chao is out with a statement criticizing donald trump. when i was young, some people deliberately misspelled or mispronounced my name. asian-americans have worked hard to change that experience for the next generation. trump doesn't seem to understand that, which says more about trump than it will ever say about asian-americans. this is the wife of the minority leader, this is someone who trump has a rocky relationship with publicly. do you think it is indicative of the way mcconnell position may manage future negotiations with the white house that his wife is coming out and leveling pretty strong criticism against a man that kevin mccarthy is very much still pledging allegiance to? >> i think that this will be a fascinating dynamic. i'm glad she said that. mitch mcconnell has become a master of expressing his disdain

for donald trump without ever actually saying his name or referencing him directly, but that will come to a head. very soon we'll be deciding who the nominee for the republican party is in 2024. and mitch mcconnell will have to come to a confrontation with that and it will make governing really hard. imagine trying to make a deal with donald trump going to a war with him. so i think that we'll have open warfare here, very notable that she said that. i don't think that was an accident. and i expect a lot more of that confrontation over the next couple years. >> aren't you glad you aren't there anymore is this brendan buck, thanks as always for your time. >> thanks. and we'll be right back. >> thanks. and we'll be right back.

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that is the show for tonight. quick note of shameless self promotion. you can catch me later tonight talking to seth meyers. i will be his guest on late night with seth meyers at 12:35 a.m. eastern on nbc. i'll see you again here on this set tomorrow night. "way too early" is coming up next. i expect you to feel what the nichols family feels. i expect you to feel outrage in the disregard of basic human rights as our police officers have taken an oath to do the