good to be with you. i'm katy tur. while we await the video of the police beating of tyre johnson,

we just received brand new body cam video of the attack of paul pelosi at his san francisco home last october. here is what police walked into and we're going to warn you, that it is violent and disturbing. >> definitely don't want to hold him here. i definitely don't want all of you. [knocking ]. >> are you sure? >> yes. >> hi. how are you doing? >> how are you? >> what's going on, man? >> everything's good. >> hi. >> drop the hammer. >> nope. >> hey, hey, hey. >> what is going on?

>> whoa. >> give me your hands. give me your [ bleep ] hands. >> we have also got audio of paul pelosi's 911 call, seeming to ask in code for help. here it is.

>> san francisco police. 2022. >> i guess i told him, who is this? >> this san francisco police. do you need help? >> there's a gentleman here, just waiting for my wife to come back. nancy pelosi. just waiting for her to come back. she's not going to be here for days so i guess we'll have to wait. >> okay, do you need medical for anything? >> i don't think so. i don't think so. the capitol police around? >> no, this is the san francisco police. >> my wife, they usually are here at the house protecting my wife. >> no, this is the san francisco police.

>> no, i understand. okay, well, he says everything's good, i've got a problem, but he says everything's good. >> okay, call us back if you need to. >> no, no, no, in this gentleman just came into the house and wants to wait here for my wife to come home, and so anyway -- >> do you know who the person is? >> no, i don't know who he is. he said he told me not to, he is telling me not to do anything. >> what is your address, sir? >> what is your name? >> my name is paul pelosi. >> anyway, this gentleman says

that he's -- to do what he said. okay? >> okay, what's the gentleman's name? >> my name is david. >> the name is david. >> okay, and who is david? >> i don't know. >> i'm a friend of theirs. >> yeah, he says he's a friend, but -- >> but you don't know who he is? >> no, ma'am. >> okay. he's not leaving. i got to stop talking to you, okay? >> okay, you sure, i can stay on the phone with you just to make sure everything is okay? >> he wants me to be off the phone. okay? >> okay. >> thank you. >> okay, bye. >> you also saw some surveillance video in there, we'll get to that in just a moment, joining us is, from california, is nbc news josh

lederman, also with me from capitol hill is nbc's ali vitali. so josh, this footage was released today, and what can you tell us about the surveillance footage, and how in the world david depape got into his home in the first place. >> well, we had heard that he had broken in to the home, and that's exactly what you can see on the surveillance video that was released. in addition to that 911 call that you played, and of course, the body cam footage. and in this video, which is from the capitol police, which has cameras installed at the pelosi residence, you can see david depape show up in the middle of the night, he looks through the glass door, kind of walks away, and then comes back shortly later with two bags and pulls out of one of the bags what appears to be a hammer. and then a little bit later in the video, you can see him striking the house, he later appears to break into the house,

through that glass, and that of course is what led to the moment when he confronted paul pelosi in his bedroom, asleep, and those moments leading up to that 911 call. so this is really helping us understand exactly what happened in the lead-up to that terrible moment that we now can all see where he is struck by that hammer, by david depape who now faces a litany of charges both in state court and in federal court, could be facing a life sentence on attempted murder charges, as this investigation moves forward. both the defense and the prosecutors had really been concerned, katy, about whether all of this evidence should be released into the public. whether this is so graphic and so provocative that it could fuel even more of these conspiracy theories that have swirled around this case from the very beginning. but ultimately, a judge agreeing with news organizations, including nbc news, that there was no reason to withhold this from the public, particularly after prosecutors had already

played much of it in open court during an earlier hearing for david depape. >> we're seeing him very clearly break in the home and lung at paul pelosi, the conspiracy theory that he was there at an invited guest is completely destroyed by watching this video, if you have a logical brain in your head. ali vitali, this is going to stir up emotions on capitol hill seeing this, seeing this surveillance footage of the break-in and attack and hearing the 911 call. what are you hearing there today? >> well, look, katy, this video came out as lawmakers were finishing up for the week, and heading home. the former speaker herself, nancy pelosi, outside her office, was serious and somber as reporters asked her if she has watched the video, if she plans to watch the video, or if she has any reaction to it. she says she has nothing to say right now but may have something to say later. she had previously said that

watching this would be very difficult for her, because she would effectively be watching an attempt on her husband's life in their home. so it is unclear whether or not she has seen the video that we all just watched now, whether she's heard the 911 call, but certainly, this is something that she had been bracing for the release of since yesterday, when we started asking her about it, and it was clear that we were all going to be able to see this. but you're right, katy, because this should put to rest, many of those conspiracy theories that popped up in right wing circles after this attack happened, seeing this all at once, the break-in, and then also what happened at the front door of the pelosi home, you know, that is i think something that lawmakers here, as they watch this, are going to react to, but again, they were leaving town right as we got to see this footage. >> any material changes to the way that capitol police operate now, in the aftermath of this attack? have we seen anything move in the last two months? >> look, it is a good question, especially because you have to wonder yes, pelosi herself

always has security with her, and certainly at this point, when she was still speaker of the house, that was definitely true. she was in line for the presidency at that point. but you have to wonder what the security was outside of her home, why people weren't monitoring this footage, and in terms of what we see here on capitol hill, every day, there are lawmakers, beyond pelosi, who get threats, and who have seen an uptick in threats over the course of the last several years, that have caused capitol police to have to enforce them with extra security. we've seen even just in the statistics that capitol police have shown us, over the course of the last five years, a really stunning rise in the number of threats that are leveled at lawmakers, coming from 2016 on. it's something that the force here is having to deal with, and grapple with in realtime because of individual threats to members and then of course in the aftermath of the january 6th insurrection, security is paramount here. >> ali vitali, josh lederman, thanks for starting us off. joining me is former secret

service supervisory special agent and former dhs adviser charles marino. charles is currently the ceo of sentinel security solutions. charles, seeing this and seeing the way that, how violently he broke into the home, i'm just struck by the security system that, or lack of security system that was at the pelosi home, was there no alarm system, no glass break warning, how did he get in without alerting authorities in the first place? >> yes, you know, first, katy, a judge decided it was in the public interest that all of this information get released, the video, the 911 calls, et cetera, and i think it was very important that it all be released at once, so it was the right way to do it, because it tells the entire story in a very sequential way. it shows the pre-attack behaviors of the suspect, as he's canvassing the house, and then it shows the break-in, and then you've got the 911 call in which mr. pelosi speaks in a very coded way to the dispatcher, to raise some alert, some alarm, on the other side of

that phone line, to get a response. and then finally, you see on the body cam the actual attack, and this cannot happen at the residence of a high level politician, number two in the line of succession. whether the speaker of the house was there or not, there needs to be protection in place for those family members, and to keep that residence secure. so you cannot rely in that type of situation for such a high profile, high position, on technologies alone. there's got to be boots on the ground there at the residence to provide a consistent presence to serve not only as a deterrent, but also to react. and in this case, it would have prevented this individual from getting into the house, i'm sure of it. >> are you satisfied with the reactions and the moves that we've heard about from capitol police so far? >> well, i think with the video coming out, and all of the other

subsequent information, i think the capitol police is going to have to come out and reassure everybody that they have changed their protocols and their policies to prevent this from happening, and that they've also implemented a better threat assessment program through intelligence monitoring, through other mechanisms, to make sure that they are matching the resources with the highest members that are of risk of something like this happening, so that they've got man power assigned to those that really need it. >> looking at the video right now, the cctv video, of him breaking in, you can see, he comes, he scouts the area, and then he shows up again with a few bags, before he pulls out a hammer and breaks in, what does this video tell you about depape as a suspect, and what does it tell you about how to stop more attacks like this again? the profile of this man. >> well, the protective

intelligence is certainly an important foundation to any protection operation, but here, what it shows us, and we knew this, is that the pelosi residence is very well-known within the san francisco bay area, and an area in which this suspect was very familiar, and we see that, so he makes his presence pretty much known in an overt way, as he's walking around the rear of the residence, kind of looking, you see, he notices the camera up there, and cameras are not a deterrent, especially if you don't care ultimately in the end that you're recognized and apprehended for committing an act, which he did not. so he makes his way in, he breaks in, and it appears that there was no other alarm function, such as a break glass or anything else to give the capitol police additional notification, to contact the san francisco police department, to immediately respond, it was left up to the victim, which in this

case could have turned out a very different way here. >> and in those backpacks, according to nbc news, and the court filings, a roll of tape, white rope, a hammer as we saw, a pair of rubber gloves, zip ties, not reassuring anyone about what he intended to do once he got inside. and again, he expected nancy pelosi to be there, not just her husband paul pelosi. charles marina, thank you very much for joining us today. and again, this is a very big news day and moments ago, we heard from the family of tyre nichol, the 29-year-old man who died three days after being severely beaten by police. what his family just warned us all, ahead of the release of body cam footage of that fatal encounter, which is said to be horrific. later on, what florida governor ron desantis just did to make the race for rnc chair a little more interesting. we're going to go there live. plus what the d.o.j. says three

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we are awaiting the release of body cam footage in memphis regarding tyre nichols, nichols' family and attorneys have met with police and city officials to review the traffic stop recording, multiple recording, the footage has been described as a vicious prolonged beating that lasted for minutes after officers chased the 29-year-old down. memphis police chief cj davis has warned people to expect the very worst. >> completely next level. completely outside of, you know, humanity, i'm not even going to say training. i mean humanity. the mindset, you know, and the reason why i think there is an analogy to rod ny king here is

that there was this, there was this sort of element of group think in this instance. no one stepped outside to say stop. there were times when he was laying, there were times when he was sat up, there were times when he was mumbling and saying words, but it was obvious that he was not in control of his physical self. >> and there was no sense of urgency to get this man help? >> in my mind, there was not. >> all five officers involved were fired after nichols' death. they face a string of charges including second-degree murder and kidnapping. those are their head shots, from the police force and those are their mug shots. joining me now from memphis is antonia hylton. the video, i mean the police are managing expectations here and they're saying it's bad, it is really bad. it is extraordinary, the amount of face time that the police

chief and other officials in that city have given to journalists and gone out there in the public to say this was not okay, it was wrong, and to establish that this is not, they say, a departmental problem, but an issue with these officers, and hoping i guess to make people aware that they are taking it as seriously as the public will. >> reporter: you're right, katy, a lot of this is, it feels foreign to me, even, as someone who has been on the ground, covered these stories before, i've had to watch these kinds of videos before, and never have i frankly seen this level of, from different agencies, different types of government, people willing to come and talk to reporters, to make statements to the community and the pace at which this investigation move and how quickly the officers were in custody, i mean black communities frankly, katy are used to begging and pleading for

a fraction of the pace and the response that we've seen here, and so as i've talked to residents and community members, what i've heard while they're grateful for that and in particular they shouted out, the chief of police who you just saw there speak there, they have been thankful for the transparency, but some degree of this has actually freaked some people out, for lack of a better term. because to them, the fact that this is so unusual, that they have stepped forward, and been so up front makes them worried that what we're going to watch tonight in the video is going to be so horrible, it's going to send shock waves through this community, it's going to be, you know, it's going to involve images that are going to be hard to get out of your mind, and they are now bracing for that. take a listen to a conversation i had with the shelby county mayor here, himself, an african american man, who clearly, he has not watched the video yet, but he was, you know, has already, just the way people are talking about it, triggered

emotions for him. take a listen. >> i'm an african american man. i grew up in this community. i've been, you know, pulled over needlessly, in my lifetime, and you know, thrown in and on police officers over the course of my 44 years, and it's tough, because it feels like, it certainly felt like to me as someone who grew up here that we turned a very important corner in this community, and in this country. >> >> reporter: in my conversations with the mayor and others, the element here that people are hoping comes out of this horror is that it allows the community to have some very honest conversations with the leadership, with stakeholders, about necessary reforms, and when you think about the fact that what we are likely to see in this video tonight is, it's going to be hard to understand, because our understanding from the chief of police, for example, right, is that we're not even going to see evidence

of tyre nichols having committed a crime. we're not going to see a traffic violation, a driving infraction actually occur, and we're very quickly going to see aggression from these officers. and so there is this question here of how does a traffic violation, if it even happens, escalate to the point of death? how does someone get executed for something that small, and the one piece the community is holding out hope for is that this case allows people to really zero in on police reform, zero in on the culture in policing, and root out and find what needs to be changed here, katy, that is the one piece that people are holding on to, that with anyone at the table talking honestly about this right now, that they can maybe get something done for once. >> and in that extraordinary interview with tom llamas, the police chief said they have not been able to substantiate that he was recklessly driving, they haven't seen that video, she's not saying that he wasn't, they just haven't been able to confirm it through other

surveillance video that is out there and she also said that the traffic stop started, started at a 10. it didn't escalate at any point. it started at a 10. so again, preparing people to see the absolute worst. antonia hylton, thank you very much. and joining me now is civil rights attorney, former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst kristen givens, and we also have reverend al sharpton joining us later to continue the conversation. but let us begin it here with you, kristen. this investigation has moved fast. the arrest came fast. the charges came fast. and they're very serious charges. second-degree murder. and kidnapping. talk to me about what that says to you. >> that says a lot to me, specifically when you have just even at this stage of video, there's a lot of police description of the video, we know from the family's statements that it is going to do no less than shock the conscience and shake us to the core. you know, this has been compared

to rodney king, and i would also say perhaps maybe even george floyd, where it seems like you have intentional acts. we also have information that the preliminary autopsy report indicates excessive bleeding due to severe, excessive bleeding due to severe beating. so what this tells me is that this is really serious. it's obviously horrific. we have a loss of a life. it's always a tragedy. but the quickness by which the police acted makes very clear that they believe they have a multitude of evidence that will prove all five of these police officers' guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. >> you talk about the beating, from the '90s, that was a minute and 19 seconds, a minute and 19 seconds, this beating that we're told of tyre nichols is more than three minutes long. so more than twice the amount of

time of the rodney king beating, which was a shock to the american conscience, when we saw it, and also the acquittal of those officers resulted in deathly and damaging riots in the city of los angeles. what do you think about the amount of face time and interaction that the police chief and other government officials have been giving to the public and to journalists to try to get ahead of this? >> i think it's really important for the police to do this. because whenever you have tragedies such as this, it is unquestionable that community trust in policing decreases. and so the fact that the police chief is out there, making staples and taking accountability, not necessarily on behalf of the department but directing her anger towards these five officers, made very clear that what she is trying to say is hey, this is bad, i am not going to stand behind some wall and pretend this is not

anything less than horrific and tragic. being that bold and being able to place yourself in those shoes helps to regain community trust. and i think, you know, along with the family statements begging for peaceful protests, is really going to help, but i mean when we are prepared for a video that is going to shock the country, a three-minute long excessive beating, it's going to move people, and it's going to potentially move them into violence. >> and let's just remind everybody, because i covered the aftermath of george floyd, and the protests, and the vast majority of the protests happened in the daytime, and they were peaceful. they were clearly angry, but they were peaceful. it was a lot of bad actor, some not affiliated whatsoever with the movement, who made things violent at night in some of the cities. so i think that people should be aware of that, and be conscious, conscious of that, as they watch

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for get the election of kevin mccarthy, there is another bitter leadership fight playing out in the gop. this afternoon, the republican national committee will elect their next chairperson. it is down to incumbent ronna mcdaniels who was hand picked by trump in 2016, and challenger harmeet dhillon, a trump attorney praised just yesterday by florida governor ron desantis. >> i think we need to get some new blood in the rnc. i like what harmeet dhillon has said about getting the rnc out

of dc. >> whoever those 168 members ultimately choose, whomever, will lead the gop, through the 2024 presidential election, after a disappointing 2022 midterm cycle, and 2020 presidential cycle, and 2018 mid-term cycle, by the way, it also comes as "the new york times" reports more rnc members are backing away from donald trump. joining me now from data point, california, is nbc's vaughn hillyard, also with me is "washington post" senior national political correspondent ashley parker. so vaughn, it's interesting, the race between these two women, because they're both very trump aligned, and it appears from the election results we've got in the last three election cycles, that the candidates that trump backs, and the rnc backs because trump backs are not the ones who do so well. >> reporter: right, and yet at the same time, ronna mcdaniel made the pitch to the rnc body

that they recorded fundraising records, nearly $400 million raised in the last election cycle, she says they were able to effectively retire nancy pelosi and she is making the case that she was able to hold this republican party together, over the course of the last six years, and has promised neutrality and as we're looking at about a year out from the iowa caucuses and since come can live to the middle of us here, i'm going to have our friend and photographer allen rice zoom in, because we're in the middle of the voting process right now and we could very well know the results of this thing in n-about 25 minutes, ther just called out georgia and how it is working, each state has three voting members as i get out of the waive the camera shot, you will see an onx box in which state is being called up, they are doing it in alphabetical order and i think it is over there to the left, where each state is coming up one at a time and putting in their selection, mike lindell, harmeet dhillon, or ronna mcdaniel, and once they get through each of the state, a simple majority is going to win

this here for one of these three individuals. and the big question here is that this is a secret ballots. and ronna mcdaniel, katy, came in with at least the vocal support of a majority of these members, but harmeet dhillon, over the last 48 hours, in person, has been going and talking to these members, and making the case that their resources have not been spent as well as they could have, and that the party did not pull off the senate victory, they lost the white house in 2020, and they need a new sense of direction, and they also need to spend more money on the legal frontier. this is a case that is being made at the same time, that you see ron desantis, publicly come out, just yesterday, in support of harmeet dhillon, she is backed by the likes of tucker carlson, charlie kirk, she was standing alongside the other night kari lake who she brought in as a key surrogate for her on election day, i was in arizona with kari lake and harmeet dhillon was standing alongside

her as her legal defense, so this is going to be playing out, and there is a lot of chatter among these members here, is that there could be this quiet support for harmeet dhillon, in an effort to try to mosque the party, you know, when we talk about a new direction, it is not necessarily a moderating direction, but it is one in which they believe that essentially the party apparatus did not do enough to support some of these key figures, including the likes of herschel walker there in the senate runoff. >> ashley, back to the same question i had for vaughn which is i don't understand how this gets them more seats in congress, or the presidency back, i mean you have a woman who is standing alongside kari lake who lost in arizona, it feels strange to me that the party is not looking at the election results, the last three elections, by the way, and saying hey, maybe this is not the best path. >> well, if you look at all three of the candidates, including mike lindell, they're all three inextricably bound to former president trump in slightly different ways so

you're right, it sun likely that this will very much move, whoever wins, the rnc and the party deeply pass trump, but what is fascinating is after these past three election cycles, 2018, of course, the 2020 presidential and the most recent 2022 midterms, there has been a sort of desire to hold someone accountable for what a lot of republicans really blame trump for, but can't say that quite so overtly, so you saw kevin mccarthy having to fend off a pretty embarrassing 15 vote round challenge to become speaker. you saw mitch mcconnell having to fend off a much lighter challenge. and now, in some ways, this is a proxy for a party who feels frustrated and stymied by trump. but if you look at the candidates, can't really move past him, no matter who they choose, at least not with this slate of three. >> all right, ashley, vaughn, guy, thank you very much. we're going to keep watching this, and we'll find out as you guys find out the results of this rnc election.

and the national archives is officially asking those at the top to double check their homes and offices, nbc news obtained a letter the archives sent yesterday to reps to all of the former presidents and vice president asking them to, quote, conduct an assessment to determine whether any have classified material. so far, we have not learned of the discovery of any additional documents, we're also expecting a conference call, with the national archives, and representatives from the former presidents and vice presidents, sometime this afternoon. and coming up, the d.o.j. filed charges against three men with ties to iran. who they are accused of targeting, and what they tried to do, right here on u.s. soil. . they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. get ready to say those five little words.

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any questions, chris? all good, thanks maura! there you go, one new inhaler! nice did you get my refill too? maybe healthier is auto refills and delivery made easy. you're a lifesaver. have a nice day. lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose. tastes great in our iced coffees too. which makes waking up at 5 a.m. to milk the cows a little easier. (moo) mabel says for you, it's more like 5:15. man: mom, really? the city of memphis is preparing right now for the worst as we await the release of body cam foot achlkt fatal beating of tyre nichols.

nbc news spoke with the memphis police chief cj davis who walked through some of what we can expect to see later this evening. >> there were first responders there. and along with the other individuals, officers are trained in first aid, you know, all of them are trained in first aid. but, you know, my expectation is when, you know, the other officials come that are experts in that particular area, that there is immediate care, and there was a delay in immediate care. >> there was a delay, she says. joining me now is president of national action network, and host of msnbc's politics nation, reverend al sharpton. thanks so much for being here. the police chief said she has been on the phone with other police chiefs around the country, telling them to prepare. what have you been hearing? and what do you expect for tonight, rev? >> well, i've been talking to chapter leaders around the

country with the national action network and i have been talking to the mother and father, of the victim, i'm doing the eulogy at his funeral next wednesday, and the concern is that the best thing that could happen for the defense of these policemen is that there is some violence, because they can then use that to say this is what our five police officers that beat this young man to death was afraid of, look at how out of control people get. if people really want justice for this young man, i'm a committed nonviolent civil rights leader and the family is committed to nonviolence, and if you're not committed to nonviolence, they can use it to say this is what the police are afraid of, so a lot of people are concerned that because of the graphic nature of the video, and the graphic nature that these cameras will show, that

this young man was beaten to death, that people will react emotionally and not understand that that is what they want to see happen. we cannot have a society where police can beat people to death and the fact that they are black is even more egregious to me. these five police men, all black, in a town that we had to fight to get blacks on the police force, they should face the maximum level of justice because they are not only, have not only disgraced the police force, they have disgraced their community. >> and that's what was so surprising for a lot of people, when their names and their faces first appeared on the news. and i wonder if that says to you that it is really more of a systemic issue, a training issue, a who are you choosing as a police officer, candidate quality issue, for whom they let into the force. >> i take it as a candidate

quality issue, i think it is systemic, but i also think that it is race, because i don't think those same five black cops would have done that to a young white male, because they do not think they would have got away with it. i think in many ways, they think that it is all right, which is why when the family and attorneys called me and actually i have come to the eulogy, and one of our board members is with the church, with the funeral, where the funeral will be, is involved in the community, we got involved, because we wanted to make it clear that it is not always just black and white, sometimes it is blacks, and in this case, five blacks, what can they explain to us that they felt that with five men, what can an unarmed one person do against five trained policemen? the only defense they could use is these people are out of control, and we can't give them that tonight with our actions. >> rev, i'm going to put you on hold for a second, and only because we have that other

breaking news that we've been following, the video release of paul pelosi's attack, and here is nancy pelosi, let's listen. >> that's what this is all about. you see these statues, honoring the past, all of these people, looking to the future. god bless you. congratulations. good afternoon. it is with a grateful heart on behalf of my entire family, that we continue to thank people for all of their prayers, that they continue to send us, asking about the progress my husband is making, and he is making progress, but it will take more time. as you know, today, it was the release of some information, i have not heard of the 911 call, i have not heard the situation,

i have not seen the break-in and i have absolutely no intention of seeing the deadly assault on my husband's wife. i won't be making any more staples about this case as it proceeds except to again thank people and inform them of paul's progress. that would be the end of what i'll say about the case. thank you. >> how sur husband? >> coming along. >> coming along. paul pelosi is coming along. she doesn't want to comment further thon case. obviously a hard day for the family of paul pelosi, nancy pelosi included, as seeing what happened to him that night, when he was attacked and seeing it on video, it is a difficult video to watch. ali vitali is back with us, and ali, you know, it's got to be difficult for her.

>> i think we're having a hard time connecting to ali vitali. no problem. let's go back to reverend al sharpton and the other top story that we've been following, alongside the release of this video, the attack on paul pelosi, we're also expecting just a couple of hours, the release of the body cam footage of tyre nichols. rev, you know, you and i have covered, you were there for a lot of the protests, in the wake of george floyd, i was there for a lot of the protests, they were largely peaceful during the day especially, and i know you're talking and pleading with folks to stay peaceful. it feels like sometimes though that's out of even the protesters' hands because you get bad actors coming in who are trying to take advantage of the situation. >> and i think you're absolutely right.

let me say there about nancy pelosi, because she was with us last monday, at the martin luther king luncheon that we had president biden speak at the national action network luncheon with the king family and her strength and dignity through this has been amazing and i would hope that all of us understand, and pray for the recovery of paul pelosi. and let me, in terms of the bad actors that come in, i think that we need to expose just what they are. they are helping those that we are opposing. and what we were careful to do in the george employed movement, as you know, i did the eulogy at two of his funerals and led a big march in washington in august, we had over 200,000 people in that one incident, because we say at all of the gatherings, national action network says, that if you are going to be violent, you are here, we assume that you are helping the opposition, because that's what they want.

the defense is always i had no other choice but to be brutal. so why were you acting in a way that would make the public and potential jurors feel they had no choice but to use brutality, if in fact you are outraged and want to see change. and that's why in what we have done at the national action network, we have never had violence, to have 200,000 people in august, katy, of 2020, a protest with what happened to george floyd and breonna taylor and not have one incident, it shows you that people get it if you explain it, and we're not telling to you be goody-goody, we're not telling you not to be outraged or angry, we're telling you to be strategic and channel your anger so that we can lead to accountability. we need to have had the george floyd bill passed which would have had qualified immunity on it, which these policemen, in their anger, whatever their excuse is going to be, in

memphis, would have thought twice about they could lose their home for their family, they could lose their cars, qualified immunity protects them, so not all they had to do is worry about i'm not going to be criminally prosecuted. to the credit of those in the memphis criminal justice system, they are being prosecuted. to the credit of the police chief, they were fired before they were prosecuted. but what is in a policeman's mind if he feels he has no risk? then they can behave the way these police men did. >> and that has been the fight for getting rid of qualified immunity which again does often protect police officers for what they do, in the line of duty. there's also been a number of consent decrees around the country, on police departments, the justice department watching over them. what else can be done? i think people are surprised, they're outraged, they're furious, that this sort of thing is still happening, and certainly that was my reaction when i heard of this. after everything that we've been talking about, the past few

years, after all of the consequences that we've seen, after all of the outrage that we've seen, the lying, that we've -- the line we've shown you cannot cross, how can this happen again? >> how can it happen again? because with all we saw, the u.s. senate would not entertain the george floyd federal justice and policing act. so all we saw, it did not lead to legislative change, which says to some police men, oh, there's not going to be a cost for this. let's remember, the way we stop jim crow was a federal law, civil rights act of '64. the way we stopped the end of voter intimidation, voting rights act of '65. the way you stop things in this country, you make it illegal under the penal he ty of law in all 50 which is federal law. so in many ways, we're acting surprised that it happened again, and i'm surprised and we're surprised, after all that we went through with george

floyd, the law didn't change. >> do you just think that people would watch that and think i want to be a better person myself, not that i don't think i'm going to get in trouble, but i personally want to be a decent human. obviously -- >> and you're right. >> these men have only been charged now and they will go through -- go ahead. >> let me say this. i'm a preacher and i don't believe that people have put their knee on people's necks for nine minutes is going to automatically change or people who would beat a man with four partners is going to automatically change. we need a law to deal with those people, particularly when they have a badge and a gun. >> we're waiting to see that video for ourselves, and the men will have a trial, they are presumed not guilty, as of now, but again, the video will tell us quite a bit, and by all accounts, for those who have seen it, it is horrific. and we heard the police chief there say the traffic stop started, started at a 10.

didn't escalate. it started at a 10. reverend al sharpton, thank you very much for being with us today, and for sticking by, as we listen to nancy pelosi react to the video of her husband being attacked. please do join the rev on "politics nation," attorney benjamin crump, on politics nation, this saturday at 5:00 p.m., eastern. join him for that. and that is going to do it for me today. hallie jackson picks up our coverage next. our coverage next. help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market ♪ i gotta good feeling about this, yeah ♪

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