story from jesse and his team, and thanks for watching this hour of msnbc. you can find us on twitter@hallieonmsnbc for highlights and new reporting. you can find me on nbc news now or nbc news streaming channel tonight and every weeknight at 5:00 eastern for show number two. i'll see you there. have a great night. in the meantime, "deadline white house." it's 4:00 in new york at the end of a tumultuous week in our country on multiple fronts a. court in san francisco released several critical pieces of evidence in that shocking case that was a flash point in our ongoing problem, growing problem of political violence. the attack on paul pelosi, the husband of former speaker nancy pelosi. that includes the 911 call that paul pelosi made from inside his bathroom as well as video from

the body cam of one of the officers who responded to the call. we're going to warn you, the video, and we're only going to show you a little teeny bit of it is really hard to watch. it's really upsetting. it shows police approaching pelosi's home. here's the moment the door opens to reveal paul pelosi and the intruder, david depape, with both men holding on to the hammer. >> guys, how are you doing? >> how are you? >> what's going on, man? >> hi. >> drop the hammer. >> nope. >> hey, hey, hey. >> what is going on right now? >> paul pelosi of course is still recovering from the attack that took place that day right there. according to former speaker nancy pelosi, take a look at what she had to say about this a couple of hours ago. >> with a grateful heart on behalf of my family, we continue to thank people for all of their prayers that they continue to

send us, asking about the progress my husband is making, and he is making progress, but it will take more time. >> we're going to take a close look at all of this new evidence that was released today in a couple of minutes. we're following developments out of memphis. at this hour, memphis and the country are bracing for reaction to the release of video from the traffic stop that led to the death of tyre nichols. all five officers who were involved in his death were charged with second-degree murder yesterday. officials say the video that's going to be released at 7:00 p.m. in three hours is appalling. the city's police chief saying that the video shows quote acts that defy humidity. here's what nichols mom had to say at a vigil last night. >> it's going to be horrific. but i want each and every one of you to protest in peace. >> all of this sure to be

commanding the attention of the one man on the front lines dealing with every crisis that happens this our country. that's white house chief of staff ron klain. today he made it official, announcing that he is stepping down after two busy years as chief of staff in president joe biden's white house. we are pleased to welcome ron klain, live from the white house. thank you for taking the time today of all days to talk to us. >> thank you for having me. i appreciate it. >> we often start with this reality that i'm very familiar with, anything that's happening in the country that's very difficult is something that a white house tries to come in and offer some back support. i just want to start with memphis. i know the president spoke to the family today. i know you have access to some of the best intelligence with concerns on the ground, if you could take me through the personal, anything you can say about the call and what the

country might be experiencing in just a few hours? >> yeah, the president did want to work out to tyre's family, as a parent, as someone who has lost a child himself. you know, and express his condolences, express his determination to continue to work on the issue of police reform. and mostly just to connect with mrs. wells, and other members of the family on a personal level. and he did have a personal phone call this afternoon, in terms o. consequences with the video we're told is going to be horrible, released this afternoon, we have been in touch with officials around the country, trying to make sure people are prepared for it. but i hope people will honor what mrs. wells has requested. that people be outrages about this. that people demand accountability and reform, but that they do so peacefully in peaceful protests and that's the

message the president also had in a statement on this yesterday and what we're going to continue to emphasize here at the white house. >> i spoke to officer harry dunn today, it isn't always about race, it's always about reform. it's always about the need nor police reform. the questions can sound shallow. the president's commitment for reform doesn't ebb and flow with individual tragedies but is there a greater momentum or an opportunity to try to restart talks, especially with the new republican leader? >> as you know, the president sent the george floyd police reform act to congress shortly after he arrived. he's been working on that. we haven't had success in getting it through the congress and when that got stopped, he did something no president had done, he issued an executive order, reforming the federal law enforcement aspects, and insisting on limits on the use of choke holds, body cameras,

other aspects to try to minimize and reduce and eliminate ultimately this type of violence. we're going to renew that call. we're going to press congress to take that up. i'm not naive. i understand how hard this is, we have been working on this for two years, but i hope that the fact that we continue to have these incidents in this country wakes people up to the fact that we need to act. >> ron, i want to switch gears a little bit. the attack on paul pelosi, i think, really shattered not just people who know speaker pelosi and her partner and husband paul pelosi but anyone in public life because we live in a moment where political violence has been normalized in the way it's talked about, pulse reflect, that a lot of people on the right think it is a reasonable means for carrying out an agenda, if nonviolent means don't get you there, and facebook has just said that it will put donald trump back on their platforms, facebook and

instagram, really at a moment when it seems that our country doesn't have this under control. in new mexico, there's a case involving a master mind of shoot, the attack on paul pelosi and the threat seems everywhere. what are your thoughts about the decision to return from one of the greatest purveyors of political misinformation, the world over to facebook. >> that's facebook's decision, and i think the important thing is that any of these platforms, you know, monitor incitements to violence and take action in response to those incitements. look, i agree nick -- niccole, what decides questions in this country are not the rule of the mob and not violence. that's something president biden spoke forcefully about before the last election. i think it's one reason why democrats did better than

expected in the last midterms. a lot of voters looked at the choice between the two parties and thought some members of the republican party had gotten too extreme. but there's no place for political violence in our country, political violence of any variety, and i think it's very important that responsible leaders in both parties continue to speak out about this and say it's not the way we approach disputes in this country. >> you are making huge news in washington, and around the world with anyone who deals with this white house, take us inside your decision. >> well, you know, i have been here as chief of staff for two years, i followed running the transition for three months before that, and several months on the campaign trail with candidate biden. it's been a long stretch. i served eight of the last white house chief of staffs.

the role is quite high at this point, and i decided at the halfway point it was the right time for me to step aside and hand the baton to someone else. we have an incredible team of people at the white house. i'm blessed and fortunate to work with the most diverse, talented people in history, men and women who come here every day and work so hard. they will do a great job carrying this forward with the president and vice president, with jeff zients as the new chief of staff, i have a lot of confidence in the team i'm leaving behind. >> my viewers, i think would say, that the president and the white house doesn't deserve enough credit for everything that goes well. i think the president's critics, even some democrats right now would say that the handling, for example, of the documents that were found hasn't gone as smoothly as they would have liked. how do you sort of assess the white house's performance on your watch? >> well, look, i'm very proud of what the president has been able to get done here. he's passed the most significant economic plan since fdr, managed

the largest land war in europe since truman. passed the second largest health care bill since lbj. got more judges confirmed than any president since jfk, the largest climate bill in history, and managed to pass the most significant gun control legislation since president clinton. he did it all, while tackling a health crisis since any president since woodrow wilson with the narrowest majority of any democratic president in 100 years. i think it's a record for the ages, impressive achievement and accomplishment, and it has been done under difficult circumstances. >> ron, because having classified stuff at home inadvertently is this sort of rolling, i mean, the pence news came this week, are you doing anything different than you did last time you left the white house? have you asked someone from the white house council's office to come to your office, sweep it with you. expand beyond that.

how else is this departure and this tour of duty different from other government postings because you've had a lot. >> look, i think it's different, first of all, we're going to handle the classified documents here responsibly. i don't think people have to worry about that. but i think my departure is different this time. i feel a certain attachment to this place and a certain bond with the team here, that's a little different. that's a choice i made and leaving behind people i care about so much, and just will be saying good-bye. >> it's weird when you hand in your badge and drive out for the last time as a staffer. any regrets? any lessons learned? anything you're handing off to your successor and saying don't do this, i did this, but i wouldn't do it again?

>> i would say, i don't know so much about regrets but in terms of lessons learned, i think persistence and patience are critical qualities here. we live in a time where people want fast answers and fast action, and it's easy to get impatient. but i think the success of this president and his white house staff has been persistence and continuing to pound away at things like passing the infrastructure bill, passing the chips bill, getting inflation down, getting unemployment down. these things were things that we didn't fix in the first week or the first month or even the first year. but through steady and relentless persistence, we made progress on these big problems, and that is certainly a lesson i'm taking away from here. >> two-part question, and we'll let you go. when is your last day, and after would you consider helping this

president with his reelection if he decides to run? >> february 8th and if the president runs for reelection, i'll be part of his campaign team. i'll be doing whatever i can to help him get elected. he's done a fantastic job, and i worked on his 1988 campaign, 2018 campaign, if there's a 2024 campaign, i'll be excited to be a part of it. >> i don't know if people know, but you always respond to press inquiries, give us as much information as you can. there's a natural tension, we always want more. i didn't always do that. it was my job. i was a communications director. your constant responsiveness to us to help us understand what was going on when things were going with well and weren't going well, i want to thank you. >> always appreciate the opportunity to come on and appear on your program.

>> thank you very much. i hope we see a lot more of you when you have more free time. we have to pack you in between the sitting room and global economy. you'll have more free time. >> thanks, appreciate it. >> thank you. i want to bring in my colleagues, msnbc contributor, michael steele, mara gay, editorial board member with the "new york times." michael steele, your thoughts on the klain years? >> i think he laid out the accomplishments, which, again, speaks to the ability of a chief of staff to manage the white house, to take the president's agenda, get it legislatively, you know, approved, if you will, through that process, and back to the president's desk to be signed into law. and i think ron had a very choppy beginning, and i think ron would say, yeah, it started off a little ragged. but the real talent of a chief of staff is to recognize that, right? and you've been in that space.

you know what that process and how that pressure cooker is. and it requires that individual to then step into the moment and realize i need to get control of this, and this is about the president's agenda and about the white house's success on behalf of the american people, and i think ron can walk out the door in february with his head held high in that regard, particularly given how difficult it was in the beginning with the infighting among democrats, and then the pushout with republicans refusing to really play on infrastructure or the economy in terms of inflation and other issues like that to be able to manage that the way it has. you know, job well done, and i think he can look back and say, you know, we got good things done on behalf of the american people. >> you know, michael, there's something that you're getting at that i think, you know, you and i spend time, you know, inside the bubble, and he has an

ability -- and again, this isn't always an asset. he has an ability to block out the noise. i worked in a white house that blocked out all of the noise, and our approval rating plunged to 26%. the president can block those out. staff isn't supposed to stick their finger in their ear. the white house, and you can debate and democrats should debate the agenda items. a lot of people think voting rights should have been done first, but in terms of what they set out to do, they pursued infrastructure, they pursued the economic agenda, and you already see it's not a quick fix, nothing that they did is quick or fast. you see mitch mcconnell flock to go joe biden's side, being nowhere near washington, as kevin mccarthy descends into madness. you see economic indicators that give them some decent signs for optimistic or something less bad than what the naysayers have feared. you already see some of their bets paying off.

>> you do, and i don't want to put too fine a point on it, or make too much of what you said that mitch mcconnell did, particularly as the second half of the first term opened up, going back home to kentucky, inviting the president to join him, having that moment on infrastructure in kentucky while all of the, you know, inside baseball washington drama was going on, 15 ballots, five days. they were doing the people's business, and they were talking about the business that had been done. it struck an interesting chord with me in terms of how senator mitch mcconnell may approach the next 18 months. yeah, he's going to put walls up because mcconnell is good at dlg doing that, we have seen that with some republican presidents as well, but i think you're going to see being able to

navigate into an open space because at the end of the day, mcconnell is looking at a real opportunity to take not just the majority of the senate but a pretty significant majority in the senate in '24, and he doesn't want to mess that up and so there's going to be, particularly given those members who are, you know, in sort of bluish purple, reddish purple states, he's going to want to create lanes where they can crawl a little bit. he can crawl a little bit. the white house can crawl a little bit, and the house will do whatever the house is going to do. i think you make an interesting point about that tableau of mcconnell and the president together while all the crazy was going on here in washington around the balance for speakership. >> and again, mara, i'm not placing a value judgment on the wisdom of it from the white house perspective but it was sort of quintessential, when you block out the noise, the white house is playing an inside game

and outside game, and at some point playing the outside game better than the inside game. judges being appointed at a clip that i think exceeds the last three white houses, baby formula crisis came, and it was brutal, and it was terrible. they fixed it, and it was literally never on the news again. gas prices, they were terrible, and it is the nature of a white house, you don't get credit for fixing things. you're supposed to fix things. but the white house playing whac-a-mole all the while sort of keeping an eye on the biden political brand, how do you think they did on that? >> i think overall, they did well. i think it started off a little shaky. i think what you raised about the question of whether voting rights should have been the first to be pursued. >> and police reform, right? >> and police reform. i think that maybe was a mistake. >> me too. >> but we're monday morning, but they kind of got it together and started rowing in the same

direction and the amount of discipline that we're seeing out of this white house is something the american people haven't seen in a long time. so when you're talking about once you're aware of this horrific, you know, baby formula crisis is the perfect example of that, once they realize this is a crisis, they were able to address it quickly because joe biden brought competency back to the white house. a lot of people there like ron klain, they are old hands, public sur servants, they know how to work the levers of government. some of the basic competency is helpful here. most people don't know who ron klain is, most americans, you know, to us he's a household name, but he's not really a household name. the important point is just that the job of the presidency, as you know, i don't have to tell you can be just whac-a-mole or crisis management position. unless you have a chief of staff like ron klain to make sure that you're keeping your eye on the ball and that you are actually

promoting an agenda. otherwise the crisis becomes the agenda. they've got to keep that up. >> that's a good way to put it. the crisis comes, they're in the middle. it never stops. you're right, a lot of people in america, when they pull up to the gas station again. super interesting. when we come back, we'll turn back to our top story of the hour on that new evidence released today in the targeted attack on speaker pelosi's house in san francisco. what it tells us about the real motive behind the attacker's break in and disproving some o. most outrageous and dangerous conspiracy theories that ensued and circulated about this heinous attack after the fact. plus, also on this busy news day, dozens of capitol police officers came to the sentencing hearing this afternoon for the two men charged with assaulting officer brian sicknick on

january 6th. he died just hours after the attack. we'll fill you in on the emotional statements from inside the courtroom. >> and later in the program as we mentioned, the city of memphis and the entire country waiting for the release of the video showing tyre nichols being pulled over by the police by five now ex-police officers who have since been charged with his murder. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ite ushoe" cos after a quick break. don't go anywhere. less sick days! cold coming on? zicam is the number one cold shortening brand! highly recommend it! zifans love zicam's unique zinc formula. it shortens colds! zicam. zinc that cold! ♪ what will you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with

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feel the difference with downy. ( ♪♪ ) some things leave you guessing. mailchimp takes the guesswork out of email marketing by analyzing data from billions of emails to offer suggestions for how to improve engagement and revenue. guess less and sell more with intuit mailchimp. through the mountain of really disturbing new evidence that's been released in the attack on

speaker pelosi's husband paul pelosi today. that release is a result of a request from a group of media organizations that included nbc news. here's a snippet of the harrowing 911 call that paul pelosi made from inside his bathroom. where he had been charging his phone. you can hear his attacker, david depape intervening while he's on the call. listen. >> this is san francisco police, do you need help? >> oh, there's a gentleman here, just waiting for my wife to come back, nancy pelosi. he's just waiting for her to come back, and she's not going to be here for days, so i guess we'll have to wait. >> okay. do you need police, fire or medical for anything? >> i don't think so. i don't think so. there's the -- is the capitol

police around? they are usually here at the house protecting my wife. >> no, this is san francisco police. >> no, i understand. okay. well, i don't know, what do you think? he thinks everything is good. i've got a problem. but he thinks everything is good. >> okay. call us back if you change your mind? >> no, no, this gentleman just came into the house and he wants to wait here for my wife to come home, and so -- anyway -- >> do you know who the person is? >> no, i don't know who he is. he said -- he's telling me not to do anything. >> what is your name? >> my name is paul pelosi.

anyways, this gentleman says that he thinks -- he's telling me to put the phone down, and just do what he says. okay? >> okay. what's the gentleman's name? >> my name is david. >> the name is david. >> okay. and who is david? >> i don't know. >> i'm a friend of theirs. >> he says he's a friend. >> you don't know who he is? >> no, ma'am. >> shortly after that, pelosi would hang up and police were at his door, eight minutes later. you can see them approaching his residence in this bit of the video that was released. in an interview with police after he was apprehended, depape spouted conspiracy theories about speaker nancy pelosi, about democrats, about a stolen election. it is a glimpse into a mind radicalized by disinformation.

listen. >> is there a reason, like, did you feel like the pelosis had done something to you? >> well, not to me specifically, to the american public, honestly. honestly, like day in and day out, the person who was on the tv lying every day was pelosi. i mean, hillary was kind of behind the scene because she doesn't have really a position. >> right. >> and it's like this is one of this is like -- record breaking, democratic party has been for the last four years and just insane. it's just like an endless [ bleep ] crime spree. it's like they go from one crime to another crime to another crime, and it's just like the whole [ bleep ] four years until they were finally able to steal the election, and it's just unacceptable. >> joining us now former fbi

assistant director for counter intelligence, frank fig lieu -- michael steele mara gay are with us as well. please tell me what i was listening to on the 911 call wasn't someone who thought everything was okay, that that was some protocol. take me through what you heard there? >> for those of us who actually care about the facts and evidence, the release today shows a 911 caller, mr. pelosi, who actually has kept his wits about him in an impressive manner, trying to convey to the 911 dispatcher while his attacker is standing there listening and watching that he's in trouble. and he did it effectively enough so that ultimately she prioritized a police response to that residence.

so let's keep going with the facts about the release today. we see video of the attacker forcibly with smashing with a hammer the bac forcible entry. not, as is claimed in really devious and dark deceptions in far right areas, someone who was invited in or previously known to mr. pelosi or a guest of mr. pelosi. we see none of that happening. and then we see the police body camera, not stage actors, not players on a stage, but rather real cops showing up at the door and encountering a man being held at hammer point, and then attacked in front of them. that's the facts. now, whether that translates to anybody's conspiracy theories or gets through or not, i can't tell you, but that's what i see,

that's what prosecutors see. that's what cops see. that's what the fbi cease, and federal prosecutors who will then charge the attacker and then the other thing i've got to point out, you know, the confession we just heard a snippet of. it was influenced by far right conspiracy theories. so anybody saying i don't have that kind of influence to instigate people to violence, you do if you are spouting these conspiracy theories because this nut case bought it and acted out violently. >> frank, let me just tell you what we've done. we pulled this footage. this is him breaking into the door. i want to stay with you, frank, on disinformation, and why it's such a priority for us as a show. this is what he says in the confession as you described it. they have been on a four-year record breaking crime spree. we learned yesterday that even the durham probe, which was established to investigate the investigators opened up a criminal investigation into donald trump. let me also share on the

disinformation part of this story, from the "washington post" reporting, elon musk, right wing figures push misinformation about pelosi attack. elon musk in a wide range of right wing personalities, cobble together misreporting, innuendo, falsehoods to amplify information about last week's violent assault on paul pelosi to millions of online followers. a forum devoted to former white house adviser steve bannon's right wing radio show alerted subscribers to quote, strange new details on paul pelosi. roger stone, a long time took to the telegram to call the assault on house speaker nancy pelosi's husband an alleged attack, telling his followers that a stench followed mainstream reporting about the friday break in that left pelosi, 82, hospitalized with a skull fracture and other serious injuries. what recourse do we have for lies like that, frank?

>> there's a couple of ways to hold people accountable, and you know, we have been through them. one of them, of course, is to actually walk away from these platforms that do this, right, and their ratings can be affected. their sponsorships should be pulled from them, and then their civil recourse for people like the victims, the pelosi family, who they probably would choose not to do this, but again, if you hurt where it really hurts, where it matters, the purse, the pocketbook, if you go after these people civilly, as has been done with alex jones, there is a chilling effect around the rest of the conspiracy community. that's what has to be done, and it's relentless. we can't be numb to the conspiracy theories. for those who say, hey, i can't possibly account for people who are mentally ill, unstable, crazy, i'm not pandering to that. those people do their own thing.

i say there's too many of those people who do respond, and the track record is there that you do instigate violence, and yes, you do have to account for an unfortunately sizable part of the population that is unstable and duped easily by what you do. >> so harry, there was a sort of plethora or a spectrum of unsavory reaction on the right. i read you what i didn't want to play you was the outright fanning and flaming of conspiracy theories. there were elected officials like glenn youngkin who sneered at political violence. i have gone back and literally rolled the tape when steve scalise was shot, there was horror, sadness, condemnation of political violence from the right all the way to the left. and that is as it should be. that was horrific, and everyone said so. here's what glenn youngkin, kari lake, and andy bigs said about paul pelosi's attack. >> there's no room for violence anywhere, but we're going to send her back to be with him in california. >> nancy pelosi, well, she's got

protection, apparently her house doesn't have a lot of protection. >> we're going to show nancy pelosi the door very shortly. don't let it hit you on the backside, nancy. hey, yeah, she's losing the gavel but finding the hammer. e r too soon? is that too soon? >> so, harry, i play that. i think when we talk about misinformation and disinformation, there's incitement, which is what bannon and stone are doing with these proven and demonstrably false lies, and then there's this permission structure for the dehumanization of people on the other side of the aisle, which, again, isn't trump's fault but he brought it mainstream, put it on every hat in america, it's synonymous with the trumpist version of the republican party. i wonder if you are interested

in dealing with political violence in america, how you deal with the two halves of that? >> yeah, so look, it is trump's fault in a sense. i don't mean in a criminal law sense, but there's a direct line as frank says from this crazy rhetoric to the hammer blow on an 82-year-old skull that we saw, and this is really, i mean, that's just despicable the things you heard from those folks, and it's what? i guess it's because it's nancy pelosi, hardy har har, it is really, you know, a bottom dwellers more than almost anything else. there are certain people who will say in defense, oh, it really wasn't going to happen, you hear the hammer going down on his skull after he tries, as frank says, kind of cunningly to get out of the situation that this would be a laughing matter for three political officials, not rag tag terrorists, but, you

know, responsible political officials in this country is nauseating. >> i want to get michael steele and mara gay in on this. i want to show you some more sound from speaker pelosi right after it happened when her colleagues, people she had to see every day, were in some instances amplifying this misinformation. i have to sneak in a quick break. i ask all of you to stick with us, and all of you at home, don't go anywhere. d all of you don't go anywhere. all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then work with professionals to assist your business with its forms and submit the application. go to getrefunds.com to learn more. there are some things that go better...together. like your workplace benefits... and retirement savings. with voya, considering all your financial choices together... can help you be better prepared for unexpected events. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. ♪limu emu & doug♪ hey, man. nice pace!

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you would think that there

would be some level of responsibility. you see what the reaction is on the other side to this to make a joke of it and really that is traumatizing, too, but nonetheless, forgetting them. there has to be some healing process, and democrats and republicans, you know, a member of congress, anybody could be a target. and we can't -- there's no guarantee, but we can in our democracy, there is one party that is doubting the outcome of the election, feeding that flame, and mocking any violence that happens. that has to stop. >> frank figliuzzi, harry lipman and mara gay. >> what nancy pelosi didn't say because it's not politically popular, under lying all of this

meanness, cruelty, and violence, is this other big lie that actually there is no legitimate opposition. so instead of just political challenges now and partisanship, we actually have one party for whom some of those members see other americans as the enemy. so it's actually not about partisanship. it's not about different ideas. it's actually those people are not human, they're undeserving of our attention, of our respect. and in extreme cases like this, of life itself. and that is deeply fascist. we should just call that what it is, it's anti-democratic, train of thought, and it's really dangerous because once you've decided that your political opponent is an enemy, then you -- anything goes at that point. then you're in a state of war, and i think that's really what we hear from some of that audio

is, you know, i'm not a psychologist but it doesn't take one to see that this was a deeply disturbed individual who saw the pelosis as an enemy, and that's what we're dealing with here. and that's how americans are starting to see each other. we're in real trouble. >> you know, michael steele, i have the privilege of interviewing the d.a. in albuquerque, new mexico, where they described him as a master mind of political violence, conspiracy to shoot at four homes, as mara is saying, some that the individual viewed as the enemy, he lost an election by 50 percentage points. and that local d.a. said the national conversation on the right about disinformation and rigging of elections is absolutely, you know, i asked the question, it's almost like of course they're connected and to speaker pelosi's point, there's only one party that is enamored by disinformation, that is addicted to the propaganda

programs on the right wing media outlets that is creating permission structures for political violence to flourish and be copy catted all over, and celebrating the export of a coup to brazil. what is the beginning of the beginning of sort of getting rid of the authoritarian habits of this new right wing party in america? >> the beginning of the beginning begins when you've hit bottom, and we haven't hit bottom. i think and i fear we are some ways from bottom. we are about to go into a very contentious presidential election cycle. you can feel the attention already. you go back four or five cycles, and you get ready for, there are two feelings that sort of lined up at the beginning of this period in the presidential cycle, nicolle, and you have been in the room, right? one is utter excitement, okay,

we're going to do this, let's go. the other one is oh, my god, all the tv commercials. a little bit of exasperation with anticipation. now the feeling is tense, the tension, what is going to happen now that facebook has let donald trump back in the game, right? what, you know, who's going to do what to whom because they believe some crap about an election they lost by damn near 50%, and somehow the person they lost to rigged it and is the enemy. to mara's incredibly important point, that is the ultimate animus and driver of this. it is the thing that is giving life to it, that continual infatuation with this power. and i don't know where it hits bottom, but it hasn't yet.

>> so ominous. everyone sticks with us. there's breaking news out of a d.c. federal courthouse, a sentence was handed down for the man who attacked capitol police officers brian sicknick, we'll give it to you on the other side of a quick break. stick with us. t to you on the oe of a quick break stick with us. right after this massacre, it happened in half moon bay, seven people lost their lives there. it happened in des moines, iowa, two people lost their lives. that's just in the last 72 hours. that's the reality that we're living through every single day. living through every single day. like my morning ride, will it help lower my glucose? with the freestyle libre 2 system, you can know where your glucose level is and where it's headed without fingersticks. know what activities work for you. manage your diabetes with more confidence

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include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. every other month, and i'm good to go. ask your doctor about every-other-month cabenuva. an incredibly powerful scene today at a federal courthouse in washington. that has dozens of u.s. capitol police officers, the family and longtime partner of fallen u.s.

capitol police officer brian sicknick, they just heard the sentencing of two rioters who assaulted him on january 6th. that includes jilian cater who has just served about six and a half years. prosecutors had argued for 90 months to cater who pleaded guilty for spraying sicknick in the face with chemical spray, which prosecutors say contributed to sicknick's two strokes and death just hours later. in a statement to the judge, officer sicknick's mom, gladys, spoke to all of the rioters who breached the capitol that day. quote, all of you bear responsibility for the injuries sustained by brian's fellow officers. the broken bones, head trauma, and the continuing mental anguish they'll suffer and endure for the rest of their lives. lawlessness, misplaced loyalty and hate killed my son and i hope you are haunted by your crimes behind bars. we're back with frank figliuzzi, mara gay, a more esteemed panel, i cannot imagine.

harry litman, her words strike me everywhere that it matters, but wonder, first, your thoughts on the sentence and then her message? >> it's a pretty long sentence. so the average assault without these complicating factors would have been more like four years. the united states wanted 98. judge hogan went much more for the prosecution. it's again, this case is complicated, because a coroner ruled that he dies of natural causes, although it's quite clear that the pepper spray brings on all of these things. that's going to also complicate the civil trial. but i think like this day is about with what we've -- with pelosi and we're going to talk about tyre nichols and this is just -- there's such ugliness on display. but he's become, because of the death and the lack of remorse from cater, who was sentenced to 80 months, somebody who his

colleagues have really rallied behind. and for them and what they were seeking, it's basically a vindication. it's a long sentence and it -- you know, it puts the blame for basically his death as it belongs, even though it's not as judge hogan said, you could have been tried for murder here for the coroner's report, but it's a hefty sentence because of the consequences. >> frank, the criminal justice system, as we all talk about here, takes a while to work its way through. but when it does, it ekes out a punishment in the criminal justice system. but i think what mr. sicknick is talking about is something else, something moral. a culpability and a shame that people should feel for believing in false idol and going to capitol, beating and maiming and in some instances, forever changing and ruining the lives of these police officers. what do you make of her comments today? >> boy, harry's got this right,

in that the last segment we just did is inextricably linked with this segment, because while there may not be a direct line medical causal link between officer sicknick's demise and his physical assault that he experienced, there is sure as heck a direct line between the assaulters and the conspiracies and the lies and the violent rhetoric that brought them to the capitol on january 6th. and michael steele also has got it right, that we haven't hit the bottom yet. we think january 6th at the time was the bottom, officers being beaten even to the point of suffering eventual death, but no, no, it's not quite there yet. and that change has to come only and best from within the movement. the extremists have to say, we've had enough. even we can't take this anymore. and i fear, nicole, that we are

far from reaching that point. >> and michael steele, back to your good point. the extremists have been evaluated by kevin mccarthy. they're now in control of the house republican conference. >> yeah. there it is. there it is. look, you -- you empower the very people who on january 6th were complicit, complicit by their fist bumps, complicit by their rhetoric, complicit by their silence. and now they are taking that to the next level. and the question for all of us is, how do we respond to it? because we're waiting for leaders to pop up out of a political environment, out of a white nationalist setting. it's going to be a long time for them to get tired of what they're doing. they think that the resistance that they've gotten so far is just enough to egg them on.

so then what we need to do is to decide how much more of this we can take. and stop electing these bastards. i'm sorry. you've just got to stop it. you'll get a chance in the next cycle to undo some of what just happened. i mean, you know, this brace by the republican leadership of the very people who want to deconstruct this country and turn it into their self-image, to me is something that we should all, "a," be ashamed of, because we are complicit in our silence, too. but then be motivated to do something about. and i'm hoping that as we -- as we go back to the point i just made, nicole, about the politics of the moment, that as we get into the cycle, we kind of become more rational about this and understanding of what the really is saying about all of us, as we watch the marjorie taylor greens and others brag about what they're going to do to us.

>> you get the last word. >> you know, i think, this is a sad day, but this is an important sentence, because we need to have some accountability here. we want to bring as many american people with us forward towards democracy as we can. but this movement, this anti-democratic, fascist movement needs to be destroyed. >> mara gay, frank figliuzzi, harry litman, thank you so much. this was a hard day. i know it probably wasn't an invitation that any of you relish, but thank you for saying "yes" and being with me for the whole hour. i'm really grateful to all of you. up next for us, we'll go live to memphis where the city and nation are preparing for the release of that video of the traffic stop between police and 29-year-old tyre nichols. the very latest on the ground there after a very short break. stay with us. round there after a very short break stay with us for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee, even if it received ppp, and all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then we'll work with you to fill out your forms

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the first time you saw that video, if you can describe in one word, what was it like? >> horrific. alarming. disappointing. sad. and -- >> did you have a visceral reaction? >> absolutely. >> how would you describe the energy of the officers that pulled over tyre nichols? >> on a scale of one to ten, they were at a ten. >> is that not police protocol? >> no. it's not police protocol. he mentioned calling out for his mother and i can't quite quote it, but it was something to the effect, you know, that he called out for mom.

>> to think that a 29-year-old man would do that, the type of condition that he has to be in, we're talking about something that is completely next-level. >> that's right. completely next level. completely outside of, you know, humanity. >> completely outside of humanity. hi, again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. a city and an entire now bracing for the release of video of the traffic stop that turned deadly in the case of 29-year-old tyre nichols memphis, tennessee. that video is set to be released some time after 7:00 p.m. that's two hours from right now. it shows the brutal beating of nichols that resulted in his death three days later. it is expected to be so graphic and so disturbing and so horrific that authorities in memphis are sure it will prompt a forceful reaction from the community. the police department took precautions regarding the timing of its release and they are preparing for people to take to the streets. here's more from memphis police chief, c.j. davis.

>> this video will cause, you know, emotion, it will cause anger and i would say, a response that is aggressive to some degree. but what we do want is to make sure that other citizens are safe. and that businesses are safe. and i think that's what their concern is. most police departments have a bandwidth to manage these types of situations. but sometimes they can get out of control. so we've been in communications and so have some of the other chiefs in identifying and august to leaders that are leading these various protests. so that they can help us manage the protests. >> the video, which runs about an hour, shows multiple angles of nichols' encounter with these officers. it includes body cam and stationary camera footage. nichols' family attorney described it this way, quote, an unadulterated, unabashed, nonstop beating of this young

boy for three minutes. he likened nichols to, quote, a human piñata. the five officers yesterday were indicted on multiple charges, including second-degree murder. a candlelight vigil for nichols was held last night where his mom rowvaughn wells called for everyone to protest in peace. earlier today, she spoke about the unspeakable pain that she's now enduring. >> this was not supposed to happen. my son was supposed to be with me today. i'm going to always know that i'll always be with him, because i told everyone that he has a tattoo of my name on his arm. my son loved me to death and i loved him to death. and so this is very difficult for me. no mother, no mother, no mother should go through what i'm going through right now. no mother. to lose their child to the

violent way that i lost my child. >> memphis and the rest of the country awaiting the release of the horrific video of tyre nichols' traffic stop is where we begin the hour. joining us live from memphis, my colleague, nbc news correspondent, antonia hilton. with us at the table, eddie glaude, chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university and an msnbc contributor, david henderson is here, civil rights attorney and former prosecutor, and the reverend al sharpton is here, host of msnbc's "politics nation" and the president of the national action network. he will be delivering the eulogy at tyre nichols' funeral on wednesday. antonia, we start with you once again. first, tell me, you said about 24 hours ago and it's haunted me ever minute since, as you're preparing to watch this and to cover this two hours from now, just tell us what you're expecting and what your reporting suggests we're going

to learn? >> i feel the same way i did yesterday. i don't know that i'm anymore prepared than i was last night. i feel heavy, because this entire city feels heavy right now, with a lot of sadness and confusion. the emotions here are so complicated, because as i had talked to residents, community leaders, i've even spoken to some police officers, there is this relief and gratefulness around the fact that the police officers are in custody, that they're facing these very severe criminal charges. but there's also an exhaustion feeling that we've been here before, we've had to watch these videos before, and when we talk about the investigation and the pace at which officials have come out, they've been willing to get on camera with people like me and talk about this, when the normal scenario is that often black communities feel like they are begging, they are pleading for someone to please give them more information, to

please answer questions in public. they wait sometimes for months for videos like this to be released. the fact that it happened so quickly has some people nervous that this is at such a next level of violence and grotesqueness that they really, there is no way that they can be prepared for it. and so i'm still shaken by all of this, but my emotions are, i imagine, just nothing compared to the way people who lived around and loved on tyre nichols are feeling. and the family has, of course, seen the video or parts of the video, because my understanding is his mother couldn't get through the entire thing. but there are people who i've spoken to who are not sure they're going to be able to watch it at all tonight. they want to come out, they want to support him, they want the protest and make sure their voices are heard, but they're not sure that the video is actually something that they are prepared to honestly digest right now. and i completely understand that. i think it's for me, it's also

added to the responsibility that i feel as a reporter to have to watch at least most of it, so that if people have questions, or as this story continues to develop, i can answer some of those questions. but this is going to be a really tough night, not just hear in memphis, but i think everywhere, particularly for black americans, to have to see this stuff, that they've grown up seeing forever. it's really hard to put into words how that feels. >> you know, your reporting about how open and transparent they've been is so striking, because it is what stands out. at some level, the public officials are setting a new standard, right, for speed and for transparency. but the other side of that is more horrific to contemplate. and that is because what they saw was so horrible. and i heard the police chief there talking about, talking about him calling for his mom, you know, that a 29-year-old man with a child of his own, then

you listen to his mother talking about always being with him. and this at the end of the day is about the death of a young man by all accounts had everything ahead of him, still. >> reporter: and nicole, it raises a whole host of other questions. if you can move this quickly for tyre nichols, countless other people have experienced violence at the hands of police officers. so people are asking, well, why didn't these cases move more quickly in the past? and then, of course, it's going to come with the expectation now, that officials not just in memphis but around this country, this is going to be the new standard. if this is how this can be done, people will want to see it done this way going forward. and then there's a whole another layer of questions around, of course, these five police officers, the nature of how a traffic stop becomes an execution. and, you know, we're starting to learn more about the scorpion unit that these five officers were part of.

these units are common. i've covered a number of police departments across the united states where they create these specialized units that are supposed to focus on things like, you know, whether it's gang violence or it's getting guns off the street or it's carjackings, they're supposed to focus on major issues that their city is dealing with. they're often seen as elite officers who are hand picked to be part of the team, trusted by leadership to handle these issues. and, you know, they're not beat cops. they're not supposed to be focused on things like traffic violations. and so, i think you're going to hear this community again, they're grateful for some of the transparency they've received and for the action taken against these officers, but they have a lot of questions about the nature of policing, the culture in the memphis police department and what was happening on this unit, that a team of officers trusted with a very particular task that this happened out of what is allegedly reckless driving, but even the chief of police has acknowledged that

there's no evidence of that that we're going to see when we watch this video. which, again, there's about an hour of footage, and we're not going to, in her words, see anything that suggests that tyre nichols committed a crime or a traffic violation, at least on video. in video evidence form. that's going to raise a lot of questions about what this unit was truly doing and what this unite might reflect about the rest of the department and the nature of policing in general, nicole. >> wow. so, rev, i think what antonia's just laid out for us in her really careful, meticulous reporting, is that a unit that by structural design is not intended to monitor traffic and the one thing on this hour of footage that we don't see is any possible infraction of any traffic laws of any city, including memphis, has carried out something so horrific, that it has set a new standard for transparency. and that's about it in terms of silver linings for us to talk

about in this story. >> i think what is extremely troubling, and i've been talking with the family and the attorneys and i'm going to do the eulogy on wednesday, is i have not seen or reader anything this graphic since rodney king, and i was involved with that 32 years ago. and this may be worse. the thing that a lot of people don't want to talk about is none of these officers have been on the force for a long time, so why were they in this squad? all five of them are black. and so here you have it where clearly, the movement that i'm part of, we're not anti-white police, we're anti-police brutality. and really want to see these five men held accountable. and if there's no crime on the video, then what is it that they were all five participating in here? and i think that this is where

we are becoming -- the more i've dug down in it and reverend turner, who's hosting a funeral who's a member of the board of national action network, and others in memphis are saying, is there something else going on here? five armed law enforcement men, none of them stopping the other one, aren't you going too far? there's something here that does not add up. and this has happened all over the country. lastly, on my other point you is we've got to deal with the fact that the nation thought after george floyd that we were not going to see things like this again. well, one of the reasons that we didn't is the george floyd building pass. when you still have police officers that don't have to deal with exposure, that we still have our homes are not threatened, we can't be sued. many of those in washington need to answer why you did not pass

george floyd, when these policeman's wives would have been saying to them every morning, now, we can lose the house. we don't have qualified immunity anymore. be careful. and the fact that they felt that they could do this, all five of them, knowing there was cameras around, tells you how a lot of policeman feel, i feel nothing to lose. who would care about a little black kid or a young black man in memphis? nobody cares about him. they're going to see tonight through wednesday that a whole lot of us care. they were able to discount him, because they've not discounted him. we couldn't even get a bill after george floyd through the u.s. senate. >> have you talked to the president about -- >> i've talked to the white house and i know the president has called the family and let me say, i just talked to the white house. but again, i think that there's a commitment from this investigation, they're going to reintroduce this bill. there's only one more seat. you'll have to deal with the filibuster. and you don't have the house now with mccarthy.

but believe me, my eulogy will be a lot more than pie in the sky. we've got to deal with something sound on the ground while we're around. >> so you and antonia have put this idea in my head. i just have to ask. you're both describing an elite unit that targets someone who there's no evidence that a traffic violation takes place, and that's not what we'll see. >> and it's not as if they were involved in anything else than an elite squad would be looking at him for. >> is there any other situation where you've seen five armed police officers beat to death one -- i mean, the five-to-one piece is just -- it's unprecedented even at a moment where we cover -- >> i don't know that there were five with rodney king 32 years ago. and none of the five even said, hold it, wait a minute, or even called and said, i think we've done something egregious. so all five, as they're being charged -- >> wearing their cameras. >> wearing their cameras, like they have no fear. and we could say that, yes it's part of police culture.

it's also what the u.s. senate gave us with no federal laws with qualified immunity. let's not forget that. >> i have so many questions, i don't even have a question for you. just tell me what you make of the information and the facts as we understand right now? >> what i make of the facts is one, we're in desperate need for police reform and it hasn't come yet. and when you start asking about five officers beating someone to death, ronald green comes to mine from louisiana. what happened the george floyd and part of the reason is why i don't think we saw more of a response is we thought, the blue wall is coming down, officers are testifying against each other. they satisfied the public that they did enough for us to believe that things would be different because they were being investigated by state authorities and federal authorities. and it is damning. now, what i know here is that you're seeing a similar response, because the legal reaction is also over the top. when officers wrongfully kill black people, typically they get

about 20 years. derek chauvin got 21 years ago for killing george floyd. amber guyger shot and killed john in his apartment got ten years. the guy who killed the high school kid got 15 years. here, they're starting off with a second-degree murder charge, where you've got them arrested and indicted and fired before the video is released. the lower end of that range of punishment is 15 years. which meebs if they get convicted even at the lower end, it will be consistent with what other officers get sentenced to. if they get the high end of that range at 60 years, that will be the highest level of punishment that i'm aware that police officers of receiving for wrongfully killing a police officer. which reflects what the content of that video is likely to be. >> what are your questions about how this scorpion unit operated

with cameras on, pursued a young man, which seems to be outside of the scope of their mission, as antonia describes their mission, as far as we know. does a unit go rogue like that? >> part of what's difficult for me on this case in particular, is to do my job, i have to maintain some semblance of hope, which it's really difficult to do. elite is a polite word used to describe units like this. san antonio's version was called rope, the repeat offenders' program. if you listen to them talk, they make jokes about being like dirty harry. i had an officer who was a career officer who was on that unit when it first started. i asked him, what is this really about? he says, basically, they tell you that someone needs to be brought in and they basically do this with however we get it done. these units did what they were designed and intended to do. they're always aggressive. they've written about it in books like "we own this city" cover this type of police conduct. this is how they operate.

and what you see here is pure hubris. they didn't expect to be caught or anything to be done about it. >> eddie, you and i have a lot of conversations that center around the dehumanization of political actors, right? dehumanizing speaker pelosi to the point that an attacker goes in and tries to hammer to death her husband. dehumanization in our civic life is much broader than that. and for me to learn these new details today about him calling out for his mom, to listen to his mother talk, to hear any mother talk about not knowing if her son is going to come is this story on repeat in america that we don't be able to lift up the needle and change the story. >> right, right. there is the description of policing that reverend al and brother anderson just gave us, combined with a legacy of devaluation and dehumanization. so you get police that has at its core a kind of maverick

exercise of authority, combined with seeing black bodies as less than, as expendable, as disposable. i kept asking myself this question. how many times do we have to have the emmett till moment? how many times do we have to have the emmett till moment? what i mean by that is a body that has been brutalized, that the public has to see -- >> the family released the footage of him in the hospital. >> exactly! and remember that black men participated in that brutal beating of emmett till. and so the devaluation, alongside policing. and then you'll combine it with this, nicole. forgetfulness is the nemesis of this country. you don't remember rand parts in california? you remember the black site in chicago? homan square. scorpion -- this unit, we know what they do. and every time it's revealed, there's an outcry, that outcry

happens. it's the theory of american politics. that outcry happens. then someone cries crime, then we justify again and we die again. so it's a challenge and we have to deal with, again, the ugliness of devaluation in american life, again. >> antonia, you were here yesterday when charles blow made the very powerful point that there's something perverse that we're here talking about law we're preparing for reaction to the violence. right? that the story is the violence. the story is the brutal beating to death of a rather slight and very young and important man in the community and to his son and to his mother, who visited his mom on miss breaks from his job at fedex. but to charles blow's criticism, we are, right?

we're also getting ready to coffer our own country and how it's going to react and the spasm of pain and grief and rage. it will feel from watching what's on this tape. with his admonition in mind, i want to ask you what that looks like, what memphis is preparing for in terms of the pain that the community will feel. >> reporter: memphis is preparing, from the official standpoint, from the police department, from the mayor's office, they are preparing for significant protests tonight and as i talk to people, people want their voices to be heard. i got the chance to city down with the shelby county mayor and talk about all of this. he's an african-american man. he told me in his life, he has not only been pulled over by police officers, but thrown on

cars. he feels as a plaque man, he's been a victim of the patterns of behavior in police departments. and i asked him about the way in which people are preparing for protests tonight, all the talk about, you know, please remain peaceful and don't riot and how even the president sent out a statement last night mentioning some of that. and his response, i'll share with you, because it's something i don't often hear from leaders when these stories happen. it's his first gut reaction was to say that he really understands the grief of the family and all the people that loved tyre nichols. he also said he trusts the people of memphis, of shelby county. and he trusts that their response to this video is going to be what this video deserves, in a sense. and i thought that that was really special. he want piece. he, of course, loves his city. he doesn't want harm to come to anybody here. but he was coming from a place of, you know, i trust my people.

i know they're hurting. i'm not going to talk down to them when they're hurting. and i thought that was very interesting and it had reminded me of the conversation of what charles had said yesterday. because often, people feel like they're admonished in these moments. and his focus was on change and on the pain of the family and on really listening to what the family is asking of us and not assuming the worst of the people of memphis. >> yeah, and i mean, i think that's why we amplified in the last hour, rev, tye's mom calling for peace. because i think this is a conversation between her, her wishes, and her community. and you're also someone who people listen to. what is your message to people throughout new york or other cities tonight? >> first of all, the thing i say is, the last two days about violence, there's already been violence. otherwise, we wouldn't have a funeral wednesday. let's not act like what the police did was not violence.

let's not talk about, are we going to have violence? we already had it. that's why we have a dead 29-year-old father. but what i've said over the air waves and my radio show which is in memphis and to the people in leadership that relate to memphis is we need to say to people, i'm committed to nonviolence. i come out of that movement. ironically, dr. king was killed right there in memphis. these five black cops, just a little distance from where martin luther king bled and died beat this man to death. i take that personal. right there where dr. king died. he died for y'all and this is the way y'all acted. and what we should say is anyone that does any violence tonight, anyone that loots or does anything, you are helping the defense of these cops. because they want to say, see, that's what my defendant thought about this young man, nichols, that he was going to do this so he had no choice but to maybe

overreact. don't help the defense. any brick you throw or anything you do violent, you're doing against nichols. because nichols needs to be as he was, a non-violent father who loved his mother. and you should not tarnish that image tonight in your anger. don't be so angry that you step over the victims' body to express your feelings. >> his baby boy, now 4 years old. antonia, as you have been all week long on this story, just masterful in telling us the story, thank you. and for what i know, you're going to endure in an hour and a half. thank you for being our eyes and ears and doing this reporting for us. everyone else sticks around. much more ahead as memphis braces for the release of this tape, showing the fatal police encounter with tyre nichols. that video set to come out later this evening. later in the hour for us, another attempt by republicans in a battleground state to suppress the african-american vote. the cynical reason why it's happening now and what democrats

are doing to stop it. top democratic election attorney mark elias will join us. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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your comments today, i don't know how you did it. i know tyre's dad is there. >> yes, sir. >> i know people will say that to you, but i do know. i've lost my son in a war, the consequences of the war in iraq, and i've lost my daughter in a tragic accident that killed my -- i don't know how you -- i

didn't have the courage to do what you did. >> that was president biden with a call to the family, this circle of grief, right, members who have lost children is one that he's a part of. but it makes me think about the federal government's role in this. and we learned yesterday that the department of justice has opened a federal civil rights investigation into this. and aye done a little bit of -- i'm not a constitutional expert, but in my search, i've never found a civil rights investigation in a case like this into five black officers. it's important that this is a through precedent and why does this matter? >> i think this is really important, because we have towns and you can talk about it the level of the law. it doesn't require just simply white people and black people and white people discriminating against black people. there are systems that pre-dispose people to treat particular people as less valued.

and if black people enter into those systems and then enact that sentiment, that belief, then they have infringed on the civil rights of black folk, they have infringed upon the civil rights of people. i think it's important for us to understand that racism doesn't require white people to work. and remember what w.b. debios said in 1903, he said you see yourself through the eyes of those who despise you and you act accordingly. of course this makes sense. >> important piece of this in terms of, if you work your way backward, the human tragedy, the dehumanization that led to this, what we're all going to go through in an hour and a half. but for those interested in unwinding this, it feels like the federal government, doj undertaking this is an important piece. >> it is an important piece. when this gets presented to a jury, which it probably will eventually, that will be a confusing issue for the jury. it does have the potential to

lead to nullification -- >> explain that. >> basically, you only need one. if you're the defense, you only need one person to say, you know what, i think these officers were trying to do the right thing miami not willing to convict them of second drew murder. the way they were indicted, it leads to a compromise verdict where they could get convicted of a lesser included defense, which just isn't consistent with what they did. but with regard to the law as it relates to police reform, part of what you have to think about is the police as an institution. police don't maintain statistics for good reasons. they don't want to answer certain questions. my wife is a physician. when you can become a physician at her institution, you take the harvard implicit association test. one of the interesting things about people who take that test is, the results don't vary based on the race of the test taker. black doctors and white doctors both show implicit bias against people of color. the exact same thing is true for policing. you have an organization, an entity with a history of structural racism. it doesn't change just because the officers happen to be black.

however, the fact that you're black doesn't give you the right to violate someone's constitutional rights. here what happened is so bad that it violated his right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. so the issue of race isn't even necessary for doj to become involved. but for all of these reasons, it's critical for them to conduct an investigation. >> what are you watching for as they go about this? >> i'm watching for when we get past the next few days, and i hope they are not violent, i hope they are protests, and i certainly hope the funeral will make the statement that people don't go on back to sleep. that we keep the pressure on this congress, on some real federal laws that will be enforced, and that we stand by this family. i've been involved in too many of these cases that they'll push the trials back and the families have to go to court alone. and they will pick a jury -- this will be a shelby county jury. this will not be an outside of

town memphis jury, they will pick a jury who say, one or two can stop this, and we cannot let this family walk this road alone, but we cannot just keep this as a singular case. we must understand, we have a problem with policing in this country that demands federal law. the reason the civil rights movement of the '60s was significant is the 64th civil rights act, 65 voting rights act, 65 open housing act. if you did not change the laws, it doesn't matter who were great orators and who could make things come together. they changed the fundamental laws of the country. we need to change the laws of policing. we don't need sympathy. we need legislation. >> and i think what's important about what rev just said is that this has happened in the context of what aye seen as a kind of receipt of the rhetoric of law and order that defines so much of the '80s and '90s. and so here we are in the moment of worrying about crime, ramping

up all of this stuff that we're hearing and the face of it has been really interesting, whether it's mayor lightfoot or mayor adams, however they're talking about it, this happens in this moment, which shows us, we can't just simply wash, rinse, and receipt. we have to do something different in this moment. >> i said this to you when the doc about you came up. as a mom and as a parent, i always go to the horror that i can't relate to, right? your black son is out in the world at risk of being killed every time he's pulled over. and i said this to you, that you go and stand with these families at the most horrific moments of their lives, you and ben crump, who i know is with them in these moments, too, is really remarkable and incredible. >> and the most touching thing to me is that they are always people that were never involved in anything. >> they're not political. >> i can't tell you how many families i never thought i would need to call you. and i try to make the first calls, they talk to other parents who went through this,

because they're the ones that understand that pain. it will never go away. the issue will go away, all of these shows will be covering something else in a week or two. but that mother will never recover from this and that son will never know his daddy, and somebody needs to be held accountable for that. >> tomorrow on "politics nation," the rev will be joined by the aforementioned benjamin crump and the parents of tyre nichols. the reverend al sharpton and david henderson, i'm always grateful to get to talk to you, but on a day like today for coming in and being at the table, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. thank you so much. eddie, we're not quite done with you yet. please stick around. when we come back, house republicans -- how republicans in north carolina are using a rare and rather devious maneuver -- who, the republicans devious? -- all in an effort to suppress voting there. mark elias will be our guest after a quick break. don't go anywhere. quick break. don't go anywhere. for your heart... your joints...

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elias writes this in democracy docket. quote, on january 9th, 2023, the new republican chief justice was sworn into office. 11 days later, north carolina republican legislatures did something unexpected. they filed a motion with the court to re-hear and reverse its most recent decision in the partisan gerrymander case. and they are not stopping at gerrymandering. they filed a separate petition for re-hearing of another case that they lost last year that blocked the state's photo i.d. law. mark elias joins us now. mark, you sort of wish democracy had the protections, the double jeopardy protections, right? can't be tried ties so democracy doesn't have to be protected and win narrowly twice. tell me about this sort of manufacturing of voter suppression and gerrymandering in the state. >> yeah, nicole. this is really, really concerning, and everyone in america should be worried about this. the fact is that the north carolina supreme court decided

two cases, one outlawing partisan gerrymandering, one outlawing or blocking the state's i.d. law, because it was deemed to be racist and in violation of the state institution. republicans decided that they can't pass laws that meet muster, so instead, they elected a new slate of republican justices to the state supreme court and then immediately asked those justices to re-hear these earlier cases. now, just to be clear, in the briefs that they filed on january 20th, on the same day, the lawyers for the legislature could only cite four instances since 1910 that the state supreme court in north carolina has done this. and the last one was in 1986 or 1987. and yet they're asking the state supreme court now to do two on two important rulings for democracy.

if this kind of charade can go forward and proceed, then there is no finality that voters confer take in rulings from state supreme courts. >> now, mark, the why is pretty obvious, right? the political battleground nature of north carolina makes these republican issues do or die politically for them. what's less clear to me, though, is how to counteract this. what is your legal strategy? >> well, look, the legal strategy here is to tell the state supreme court that it needs to follow precedent, it needs to act like a state supreme court. and not let itself be maneuvered or manipulated through some republican scheme. the fact is the state supreme court may now have a republican majority. and by the way, nicole, i don't say republican majority because i'm right to cast the justices one way. the republicans in the state house and state senate in north

carolina in 2017 passed a law to mandate that state supreme court justices run on partisan ballots. they turned non-partisan elections into partisan elections. and so my message to the state supreme court is, don't let yourself, just because you are newly elected republicans be used by the political branches. be justices and respect the fact that a prior court or the court's prior members just a few months ago found these cases as they did and respect those rulings. >> what is the difference in terms of, as you just explained for us, partisan makeup of the court between when they ruled last time and when they ruled this time. >> so it was, again, a traditionally, north carolina had a very centrist court. if anything, nicole, you might imagine, it's the court that a state that is trying to build a banking community in charlotte and a research facility in the research park area, it was that

kind of court. it's a pro-business court, a pro-growth court. but that wasn't good enough for the republican legislature. the court was 4-3 democratic, but very sort of centrist in its thinking. and now it is 5-2 republican. >> eddie, this is the story of this republican movement, right? it is the story with dobbs. they get something that they think that they wanted for 50 years and they don't celebrate their legal victory. they double down and do things that 85 to 97% of americans oppose, bans without exceptions for life of mother. this is something that as mark is describing, a very moderate supreme court looked at and ruled on. but they have to keep going with the gerrymandering and the voter suppression. >> remember in 2016, eip released a report about the state of north carolina and said it was no longer a democracy. bishop barber, the poor people's campaign began fighting people like mccory and those folks in north carolina. this is an extension of that.

remember, this is ground zero. before trumpism hit, it was all being tested in north carolina. koch money flowing in. forgetfulness is our nemesis. this has been happening in north carolina. we need to understand that some folk in our country believe that the demographic shifts have made it such that democracy can't function the way we thought it could. so they're going to have to read the terms. >> go ahead, mark. >> that's a really, really, really important point. the fact is that the same legislature in 2013 took the opportunity weeks after shelby county came out and gutted section five of the voting rights act, they passed a law that was ultimately struck down by the federal courts for targeting african-americans with near-surgical presigs. they chose the voting sites, scored them by race, scored them

by race, and targeted the voting methods used primarily by black voters. i talked about this on my podcast recently. this is an issue that permeates north carolina's legislature, and this has been their agenda ever since, ever since a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural fusion coalition to take this on. this legislature through racial gerrymandering, remember, they had their first set of redistricting maps in 2016 struck down by the supreme court for being racist, racial gerrymander gerrymanders. this is a mission that has been going on for more than a decade and we need the state courts to not allow themselves to be used as a tool in that fight. >> it sounds like the three of us should head down to north carolina. >> anytime you're ready. >> we'll put it calendar. thank you for bringing this to our attention. it's a two-way street, and i appreciate you flagging this and making time to talk to us on the show today. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> eddie glaude, a different

thank you to you for always being by my side on the worst and most horrible stories that we cover today. >> thank you for doing what you do, my friend. >> thank you, my friend. we have to fit in another break. goent anywhere fit in another b. goent anywhere ♪ what will you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with

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legitimizing. there was no question over the course of our 18 months that we found evidence of the violation of those, at least those four federal criminal offenses. again, there's more evidence that the department may get that may effect that calculus. but based on what we learned, it was not close, nicole. it was really clear that there is evidence of specific intent to disrupt the official proceeding, of conspiratorial conduct with other people. with incitement of an insurrection and accountability therefore means that this lands in a criminal court. >> it was not close. those were striking words for us to hear from our exclusive conversation with tim hafei, the former chief investigator for the january 6th select committee. by all accounts, hafei was the committee's not-so-secret weapon from bill barr to pat cipollone to ivanka trump to cassidy hutchinson, hafei was there driving the questions and the depositions that made for iconic must-see tv during the january 6th pluck hearings. tim hafei is on a very short

list of people who know the full scope of the mountain of evidence that the house select committee has now handed over to doj. he knows exactly what merrick garland and the justice department are reckoning with right now as they try to decide to do what hafei says is the only logical conclusion, to charge a disgraced twice-impeached ex-president. so when you get an hour of tim hafei's time, you listen closely to every single word, and if you missed our one-hour interview with tim, you can do just that. you can watch the deadline white house tim heaphy interview now on peacock. quick break for us. we'll be right back. on peacock quick break for us we'll be right back.

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