>> hey, everybody, good afternoon, it's great to see you. i am yasmin vossoughian. taking action, memphis shuts down the unit that deployed all five officers now charged with murder and the beating of tyre

nichols. here is the memphis da a short time ago right here on msnbc. >> i have heard that a number of citizens making complaints about the scorpion unit. i know that units of that kind sometimes can -- both in memphis and around the country can sometimes breed a culture of over aggressiveness. i think it's probably a healthy thing that the units been stunt. >> while this happened as the committee prepared for the funeral of the 29 year old whose life ended at the hands of those officers in a moment. i'm going to talk to reverend al sharpton who's going to give the eulogy for nichols. also this hour, a disturbing story out of oregon. a man on the loose for torturing a woman using dating apps to find even more victims. and then some breaking political news that we are following. kevin mccarthy confirming a wednesday meeting with president biden on the debt

ceiling. all of that plus former president donald trump talking about the georgia da's investigation that could lead to criminal charges against him as early as this week. that's coming up as well. we want to begin with the latest out of memphis, the police department has announced its controversial scorpion unit will be privately deactivated. all five former officers charged in tyre nichols's death were members of that unit. nbc's antonio hilton is in memphis. a church service pay tribute to terry today. antonia, if you will, take us there today. especially now with this news of the disbandment of the scorpion unit. of course, just days ahead of the service for terry. >> high, he has been, i got to talk to -- people as they came to the service led by senior pastor jason turner. who is also going to lead the mass on wednesday that is going to honor tyre nichols life.

what i heard from people was a combination of hope and, of course, heartbreak here. hope because the action has already been taken against these officers. they are charged with second degree murder. hope because of what you mentioned. the scorpion unit has been disbanded, it looks like the memphis police department is going to have to make some kind of reform. their hope is that they answer more questions about the nature of policing, how these specialized units have been behaving here in the city of memphis. and then there is the heartbreak. the anger at the 29 year olds loss of life. a desire for people to come together and remember him in a positive light as someone who had a child himself who is close to his parents and who worked at fedex here in had lots of friends. it was a skater, a lover of photography. that's a lot of, i think, what we're going to hear on wednesday. a celebration of the life that tyre led. the pastor today tried to comfort people here. he said if, you are hurting, if

you're depressed, he invited people to actually come really close to him and close to the other senior members of the clergy. hold hands, pray, essentially breathe and hug each other. that was how this service really got started. when he really kicked off into his sermon, he made a connection between the death of tyre nichols and the crucifixion of jesus. he talked about the history of jesus as someone who is part of a pressed class. who was talking about social justice, or detained in his community, who ended up being beaten and crucified by state actors. i want you to take a little bit of a listen to what the pastor shared today. >> we ask a question that is yet to be answered. what can i do? >> they did not ask for a drivers license. because they didn't care who it was. proven that their actions --

>> he closed his message by reminding people that they are in this fight at the local level. but all the way up to a federal level. you talk about the need to push lawmakers to pass reforms through congress. he talked about the need to keep showing up to support the family here. it was a reminder that the black church has always served as a place for people to come together and to heal. but also to protest and talk about the next stage of their protests. that's very much how he close out this message. trying to make people feel uplifted and supported by understanding that there are steps that they can take. there are things they can ask and demand for now. you should have heard people here, at points, they're very emotional, they were cheering for him. the crowd here seem to really need to hear that message today, yasmin. >> yeah, it's an incredible confluence of issues always come together, especially in black churches during times like this. i wonder, antonia, as we are

talking about the reforms that we are hearing from this community. some swift action has been taken. we talk about the disbandment of the scorpion unit. what else are folks telling you they want to see now? e are folks >> people are talkit about the moments in the video that seem to stretch on forever. tyre nichols does not get aid for quite a long time, only almost 20 minutes of time. there are additional people who showed up on the scene, emts, other officers. people here want to know more about who was there, what more they should've done, what their training was. they're feeling is that people should have jumped into action, recognize, because you can see on the video, how much anguish to tyre is in in those moments. they are outraged. they believe that not enough people have been relieved of their duties or investigated. they want more. and then on the scorpion unit, there's a desire to understand more about the policing culture here. if the specialized teams have

been allowed to operate in some ways outside of the norms, you're going to hear a lot of people talk about that in the coming days stowe. >> antonia hilton, as always, thank you. as tyrese families preparing to say their final goodbyes this week on wednesday, his parents joined politicsnation to talk about a little of their son and what they want to see come next. >> tyre was a beautiful person. he was full of life, as you can see a, he loved to skateboard. he loved to watch the sunsets. he was a great dad. he was just around about good person. >> roundabout good person. joining me now is the host of politicsnation and president of the national action network. reverend al sharpton, who oftentimes, is the voice, the leading voice in so many of these issues. rev, as always, it's fantastic to talk to you today.

what stood out to you in that conversation yesterday with tyrese parents? we >> it was very much, i was very much moved by the fact that the mother despite her hurt and pain and talking about how close she was with tyre to the point that he had even a tattoo of her name on his arm, she was also praying for the family of the five police officers that killed his son. saying these officers had ruined her life too. it gave me a sense of the kind of person tyre was raised by. in your outpour of pain, your son killed by, people you reach out and pray for the families of the killers. it showed me that this young man came from a kind of family that is certainly above and beyond everything and didn't

deserve what he got. i don't think anyone deserves what he did get. it also shows he came from a family that was a god fearing, very positive environment. >> rev, how many of these eulogies have you had to deliver as of late? i know you're going to be delivering a eulogy for tyre on wednesday. how many? >> we i almost lose count. i did the illuzzi for eric garner, i did the eulogy for michael brown in ferguson. with the ferguson killing. i did two of the eulogies of george floyd. on and on in brooklyn minnesota. probably about 10 to 15. it's not only the eulogies. the action network was there to organize and call for protests. we did that big, march 20,000

people in the middle of the pandemic for all the families in august of 2020. so, it's the mobilization and the eulogies. when you look at it every, time you sit back and you say, maybe we are making progress. we got an executive order. and then something else happens to remind us, unless we change the laws, unless the federal laws -- unless we deal with policeman having to be held accountable in terms of they, can be sued themselves, i don't think we're going to see this change. because i don't think police feel that they have any skin in the game in terms of being at risk of losing something personally. >> let me ask you this, rev, 10 to 15 probably more, let's be honest, that you've delivered at this point. honest>> i just talk to antoniat the message the committee was

hearing from their local pastors. so often these communities, the black communities, they turn to the churches. for guidance. for what to do next and then also how to heal. as you're going into this thing, what are you thinking? the pastor to lay delivering a message of hope and heartbreak. but also political reform as you just talked about. so, you have been up there so many times. center stage talking about this over and over again. as frustrating for you at times as it is for members of this community, what is going to be your message? >> my message is going to be that we must not stop until we get a federal law. the george floyd justice and policing act. we must and qualified immunity. policeman need to know, their families need to know, when they behave and this, way they cannot only -- if they get caught, i think many feel they could not get caught.

if they don't get caught, they still risk losing their homes, their cars personally. not just counties or cities. and what i was saying to people is that we must have a sustained movement around federal laws. and we can't stop to get it just like maiden stop in the 60s until they got the civil rights act, or the voting rights act. we can't stop until we get these laws changed and and qualified immunity federally. because we can't have it once they they to a different states try different lot another state. and you get healing and revealing a nation. your healing comes out of redeeming the laws around policing. you're not going to get healed on your knees praying. you're going to get healed doing good work. >> we're going to talk more about that in the two hours to come. rev, as always, we thank you for being a leading voice in

this and for talking to us today. you can watch more on the story with rev. with, the share the congressional black caucus, stephen horse for this evening on politicsnation right here on msnbc beginning at 5 pm eastern. let's talk about some breaking political news right now as well. house speaker kevin mccarthy confirming today, he's going to be meeting with president biden to talk about the debt ceiling and spending this week. while the white house has said repeatedly there is going to be no negotiation when it comes to the debt ceiling, mccarthy has a very different view. >> you have accepted an invitation to meet with president biden. when will that happen, what offer will you put on the table? >> we are going to meet this wednesday. i know the president said he didn't want to have any discussions. i think it's very important that our whole governments designed to find compromise. i want to find a reasonable and responsible way that we can lift the debt ceiling and take

control of this runaway spending. >> that is one of the topics we will be talking about with a big yes we have in our next hour. you don't want to miss that conversation, congressman adam schiff is going to join us fresh from announcing his california senate bid. the same way kevin mccarthy kicked him off the intel committee. we will dig into all of this in our next hour. that's also head overseas, if we can, breaking news there. secretary of state and tony blinken arrived in the middle east is a short time ago for the start of a three-day visit to the region. he's going to head to jerusalem on monday where tensions are incredibly high following a series of deadly attacks. nbc's cal eagle bay is following out of jerusalem. kelly, good to talk to. you first, if you will, kelly, bring us up to speed on what's happened over the last 24 hours or so. >> so, israel is on its highest state of alert. police around 12 hour shifts, israeli soldiers are on the streets, especially here in jerusalem.

the two attacks took place. the first one friday night. the worst attack on israeli civilians since 2008. palestinian gunmen, 21 years, old got out of a car in the evening, opened fire on a synagogue just before coming out after prayer on the sabbath. seven people were killed, including a 14-year-old boy. three more injured. it sounds as though those three will make it. their conditions aren't not critical anymore from what we understand. and then just a few hours later, a shooting saturday morning also in jerusalem in the predominantly palestinian -- and easter islam, a 13-year-old boy opened fire on israeli's. the israeli officials say that an off-duty military officer who was armed at the time fired back and shot the 13-year-old. he is in the hospital and is expected to survive. now, since then, israel raised

the alert level. there has been a huge security presence on the streets. a few clashes overnight last night between palestinians and the police. some classes again tonight. nothing on the scale of what we saw friday and into saturday. this is the environments in which secretary blinken will be arriving tomorrow. you talked about the environment, kelly. i want to dig into that if we can. different times, same players. >> you can't help but think with these high intentions you have the arrival of the secretary of state there. you have netanyahu back in place. you have the boston police as well. there is a sense that this could only go south from here. what is the feeling? >> well, it's not optimistic. let's be frank about that. yeah, secretary blinken is going to be meeting with benjamin netanyahu. the prime minister is now

starting just one thing into his third term, his big comeback term. at the head of what most year consider to be the hard right, the most hard right government in israel's history. the question is, can they come to terms on any issues while they are here? secretary blinken and the state department have said that this is going to be in part at least about reasserting the uss belief in a two state system here in the u.s., a state for the palestinians. that's something that really has not gotten any traction in years. it's not something that is talked about, certainly not in this new government, in this new netanyahu government. i should mention as a response to these two shootings, yasmin, the prime minister announced a series of measures including sealing up those two attackers homes, the family homes of the 21 year old and of the 13 year old. both homes, the government said,

will be destroyed. it means their families will no longer have a place to live. it's part of the government's policy of collective punishment and is meant to act as a deterrent. obviously, this is not a popular policy when it comes to palestinians and palestinian families. a number of other measures were announced as well, including strengthening settlements. that will not go over well with the u.s. administration. there is a lot to talk about. >> yeah, absolutely. we could do a whole another hour on that as well. kelly, thank you. we appreciate it. still ahead, everyone, we're going to dive into the memphis pd's elimination of its scorpion unit or the impact of the specialist efficience with the former member of as president barack obama's policing task force. plus, using dating apps to lure victims and evade arrest -- the search for this man going on right now in oregon.

trump on the trail again -- it definitely doesn't feel like 2020 again judging by the crowd in the energy. we are live in south carolina. we are live sinouth carolina.

welcome back, everybody. donald trump's 2024 presidential campaign is underway. if you missed a noose, it's probably because it's off to somewhat of a whimper out of the gate. trump first announced his

campaign back in november. he waited until this weekend to hold his first event. those events were in south carolina and new hampshire, drawing smaller than normal crowds. the former president sounded increasingly off the rails at the event, saying he is, quote, angrier than ever and that the country is on the brink of world war iii. i want to run involved in hillyard. ivan, it's always great to talk to you this is not a repeat so far nor is it a repeat of 2016 either. give us the play by play. >> yasmin, it's very good to see you. it's not a replay of the past. this is what donald trump wants to be the future. these were smaller campaign events which are outside of the norm of his mega rallies that we have been accustomed to over the last earlier. in new hampshire, he stopped at the annual gop party meeting in which he announced that their outgoing new hampshire chair was becoming his senior adviser.

here in south carolina, he revealed his leadership team inside 100th the dome of the south carolina state house here. these are going to be early voting states. we're one year away from the iowa caucus beginning here this week. other republicans have considered jumping into this race. he's trying to lay a foundation in trying to force other are looking elected officials to back his campaign before other options become available. >> i know that the former president also went after desantis pretty hard which is a precursor for what is to come. >> this is a grudge that is bubbling up to this moment. we should not expect rhonda sanchez to announce for a couple of months. it's giving donald trump the

breathing room to lay what would be a catcher campaign to rhonda scent is. the garage that i speak of, it goes back to 2018. trump yesterday was making remarks that he is responsible for ron desantis being a saying. you will recall in just over 22,000 votes against the democrat andrew gillum. donald trump says he would not have won had it not been for him. the president told republicans to get behind his candidacy. that helped him eclipse the democrats here. in a way, he's saying if you get into the race, be ready. the only reason he's relevant is because of him, donald trump. >> all right, vaughn hillyard, great to see you, my friend. thank you. coming up, another mass shooting in california, the fourth a week. my next guest says he has a smarter way to reduce gun deaths. nicholas kristoff is ahead. plus, an alleged torture

suspect on the run in oregon -- the latest on the search for someone police say is using dating apps to find even more victims. we will be right back. victims. we will be right back. we will be right back. erformance was legendary. they just piled it on. roast beef, ham, oven roasted turkey. all on the subway club. three peat - that's great. three meat - that's epic. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. ♪ma ma ma ma♪ [clears throut] for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops with two times more menthol per drop*, and the powerful rush of vicks vapors for fast-acting relief you can feel. vicks vapocool drops. fast relief you can feel. (chiming music) vicks vapocool drops. (jonathan) who is this message for? it's for people age 50 and over. if that's you, then keep watching, because this message can mean a lot to you and your family. what is it about? it's about guaranteed life insurance at a cost that fits your budget. in fact, it starts as low as $9.95 a month.

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because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. welcome back. breaking news in oregon, police are searching for a man suspected of using dating apps to target, kidnap, and torture women. i want to bring in nbc's marissa standing by for us. this is an incredibly frightening story. i know they are still searching for this individual. what do we know? what do we know so far? >> yeah, frightening on a lot of levels, especially when you hear the depths of this. i want to take you to his image. police are still actively searching for him. this is 36-year-old benjamin obeidallah foster, charged in oregon with attempted murder, kidnapping, and assault. this happened in the grand pass area of oregon. he torture the woman and hit her in a place where he thought she would not be found.

they're keeping the exact details quiet. they are not exactly describing how they were alerted to this. they said when they got to the home, her home, she was beaten unconscious. she was bound and they took her to the hospital and she was taken in critical condition. yes, this is less than two years after he was charged with doing the exact same thing to an ex girlfriend in las vegas. this ex girlfriend suffered broken ribs. she had black eyes. she was bound at the wrists and the ankles. this is two years after something that was so horrific. they say they have reason to believe he is actively using online dating apps to lure people. it's not clear whether he is using his own likeness to do that or not. they think that either to lower his next victims or to lower people into helping him. >> wow. what do we know about where they are in the search process? how close are they? what do we know specifically about the suspect? >> right, so, they do believe

he's armed and dangerous. a lot of times in these investigations especially when there's an active man hunt, they withhold a lot of details and information. a senior law enforcement official in oregon, you're going to listen to him in just a second, has reason to believe it's possible that he's not acting alone right now. >> ben foster is from the southern oregon area. he has a lot of friends, a lot of contact with in this area. he could be getting assistance in the remaining around the area. >> they did not say anything as to whether they think that someone was helping him during that earlier process with that woman. again, in terms of how he is still able to avoid police, they said it's a possibility. they want people to know that if anyone's found helping him knowing what he is accused of then they will also be prosecuted in this. there's a report for anyone who finds him. obviously, the focus right now is on finding him, but they will have to be questions that are answered on how a man who

was charged with doing something so similar to years ago in las vegas and was supposed to face decades in prison was able to turn around and do the same thing. >> yeah, a lot of questions. thank you, marissa. america's latest mass shooting happening in baltimore saturday evening, at least one person is dead and four others were wounded including two young kids. police say one or more shooters opened fire on a street in the upton neighborhood. 43-year-old man standing outside was killed and a passing car carrying those two young kids was also hit, causing it to crash into a pole. those occupants were taken to the hospital in critical condition. they have been stabilized. one person has been detained for question. police have not yet announced if they are considering a suspect. in los angeles, there is new information may deadly mass shooting, this time at an upscale home near beverly hills which left three people that. police now say it was not random or an accident.

a manhunt is underway for the shooter. police are saying it's possible more than one shooter was involved. it happened at a party outside a house early saturday morning. the residents was being used as a short-term rental. for other people at the party were also wounded by gunfire. with all of this, mass shootings, they have become tragically common in america. it begs the question, how gun deaths -- in today's political climate, this reform even possible? we're asking that about a lot these days. nicholas kristoff wrote an article laying out changes he lost to america's gun policy. as he notes, it's easier in some states to buy a gun and then it is to adopt a chihuahua or even vote in a presidential election. new york times opinion columnist nicholas kristoff joins me now with more on this. thank you for joining us on this. we appreciate. i enjoyed reading your piece. i have to say i got a lot of

questions about it considering the current political climate and how difficult it is to get things done these days, the likelihood of actually getting anything done. let me start with this. you kind of laid out some of the things you feel as if could help reform the gun policies in this country. you start by acknowledging the acceptance of the existence of guns, saying this -- harbored auction for guns would start by acknowledging the blunt reality that we're not going to eliminate guns anymore than we have eliminated vehicles or tobacco, not in a country that has more guns than people. we are destined to live in a sea of guns. some people will always sneak cigarettes and people will inevitably drive drunk. some criminals will get firearms. why do you think this is kind of the first step or a major part in acknowledging the reality of where we are? >> yeah, you know, whenever i write about guns, i always hear

from my side, the liberal community, that we have to ban guns, they are dangerous. i think the more we say that, the more it makes it harder to adopt incremental steps. it would actually reduce the toll. the reality is that we're not going to ban guns. there are some steps that we can take. i tend to agree with you that we will probably not see substantial action. at the state level, we can. it striking out there are some conservative states that have gone farther than some liberal states. we can learn from that. i am from oregon. this is a blue state. we hear, at 18, you have to -- in wyoming, you have to be 21. how is it that wyoming has a tighter age restriction to buy a handgun than a liberal state

like oregon? >> yeah, it's an interesting point. i want to lay out, though, some of the other things that you put out there for folks to just see. you say imposing the minimum age of 20 want to buy firearms, barring those convicted of violent misdemeanors for possessing guns, and posing universal background checks, license to buy a gun so, on and so forth,. your writing was inspired by the number of mass shootings we have seen over the last ten days or so. you consider the climate of this country, i mean, if we were not able to make significant, substantial changes after the killing, the murder of young children in uvalde or newtown, the most horrific thing we could ever experience in our lifetime, why do you think things could change now? >> i don't think they're likely to change at the federal level. at the state level, they can't. in connecticut, it's a good example of a state that actually did take substantial

action at state level. i got in the numbers. i believe the homicide rate dropped 37% as a result. california is a state that has taken substantial -- it's been really kind of the leader in taking smart, evidence based action on firearms. in particular, they have background checks not only by firearm but also to buy ammunition which i think makes a lot of sense. it seems to be helping. california has -- it's one of the best ten states in terms of firearm deaths. you know, look, we lose about 48,000 americans a year to firearms, including suicide and homicide and accidents. we're not going to eliminate up. we're probably not going to drop it in half. firearms experts tend to think we might be able to reduce it by a surge. we could say 50,000 lives a year with some of these incremental steps. that would be worth it.

>> you mentioned the major changes which happened after newtown. you also look at texas and how they were unwilling to budge in many instances after what we saw. in many ways, it's a state by state issue. nicholas kristoff, we thank you. coming up, the future of police reform after the release of the video of the beating of tyre nichols -- what can be done at the local and national level if anything. we will be right back. anything we will be right back. (cecily) what's up, einstein?

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thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. the department is saying this dismantlement is a, quote, proactive step in the healing process. the family of tyre called inappropriate and proportional. what's your reaction? >> i think it absolutely is appropriate and proportional. i think that things like the scorpion unit, the red dogs in atlanta, which reportedly was also started by the current memphis police chief when she was in atlanta, these are the kinds of tactical units that we know are incredibly violent. they are incredibly intrusive in communities. they operate with a warrior mentality. they absolutely should not exist in any city, county, town across this country. what i'm also very clear about is that between 2013 and 2021 the memphis police killed 25 people. all of those people did not die at the hands of the scorpion unit. i think it's easy to want to lay the blame entirely at one

unit and not examine the entire structure and institution of policing at its core. 2021 was the deadliest -- 2022, rather, was the deadliest year on hand for the people at the hands of police since we have been keeping records. all 1100 of those people did not die from a scorpion type unit. we want to make sure that while it was necessary to urgently to spend that unit that the changes that need to be made do not stop there. >> before we take a look and get into the politics of policing at its core, i kind of wonder if there is this worry and if you think about this how sometimes in reaction to an incident like this there is the disbandment of a unit like the scorpion unit astor was with the plain clothes unit here in new york city which was then reinstated subsequently years later. is there a worry that this is a reaction and something like this could be put back into place with a different name?

-- >> absolutely. as we have already said, eric adams has reinstated that unit. we know that in america there is a very, very short memory that we have about things that matter, especially when those things that matter apply to break, black, brown, and for people. when everyone social consciousness moves on, no one is posting a black square anymore, people are forgetting about george floyd and breonna taylor, tyre nichols and michael brown, we get back to business as usual. people are waiting for us to get on to the next terror, quite frankly. life is so heavy right now for so many people. there is always that fear. i know that organizers and activists on the ground in memphis have been working to make sure that fear is not realized. >> so much of the conversation surrounding not only this but gone reform legislation as well has become, okay, change can happen at the federal level right now. it must happen at the local

level. you heard from president biden two days ago. okay, his reaction is trying to get the george floyd policing act across the finish line. and this political climate, is that really a reality? tim scott out today saying he is still at the negotiating table and has been for the last 18 months or so. you had that coupled with jim jordan who spoke to chuck taught a little bit. i want to play for you what he had to say and then we will talk. >> i don't know if there is anything you can do to stop the kind of evil we saw in that video. >> it sounds like you are not for any new federal regulation. >> i think there are all kinds of grant dollars that will go out. there's a form that can happen. >> why not a federal ban on chokeholds? >> i think you want to keep this at the state and local level. this is a law enforcement issue. if you get to the federal government involved in databases, that gets -- the federal government screws

it up so many times. >> any possibility for a real effective change considering our climate? >> unfortunately, i think the question of whether or not there is a possibility for effective change, to your point, was already on the table when the george floyd police act was in the hands of someone like tim scott. we were already starting to get worried that the most basic levels of reform that were in the first versions of that bill we're going to be torn apart. there was a do not pass go, do not collect $200 mentality. you're not even going to put qualified immunity on the table. they can be deputized to do that with guns. protection is not -- i do realize that there are 18,000 police departments across the entire country and that rules and regulations are

different at all of them. what we are hearing nationally are a few things -- communities of color have always needed federal interventions. this is no different. we're going to look at state sheriff's offices. quite a look at community level policing. we want a true public safety. we don't want to just keep trying the same things and expect different results. the federal and local governments have been pouring millions and billions of dollars in taking unity policing. it has not worked. let's transform the system instead of moving around the chairs. >> we thank you. still ahead everyone, representative adam schiff joins me live on his run for a senate seat that may or may not be vacated in 2024. his reaction to getting booted off the intel committee by speaker mccarthy and whether there is anything he can do about it. first, surprising new numbers from an nbc poll on just how

americans see trump and biden's classified documents cases. we're going to look at the perception and then the reality. we will be right back. and then th reality. we will be right back. we will be right back. let me tell you about the greatest roster ever assembled. the monster, the outlaw... and you can't forget about the boss. sometimes- you just want to eat your heroes. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. [♪♪] the subway series. if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. ♪ - think about a child you love. now take away their clean clothes and access to water. take away the roof over their heads, most meals and all snacks. look at what's left. millions of children are struggling to survive due to inequality, the climate crisis,

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documents found at the home of the president and the offices. these new numbers are flying in the face of eric e. differences, by the way, between these two cases. with me now, barbara mcquade. it's always great to talk to you as always. if you will, kind of walk us through the key major differences between these two cases despite the fact that most americans see them as similar. >> yeah, it's really disturbing to see that poll. the cases could not be more different. it's sort of like the difference between an accidental fender bender and deliberately driving your car into a crowd of people. one is an accident on the other is a crime. just because they both involve a car does not mean they are similar in any other way. in this case, we see joe biden who appears to have accidentally retain documents. maybe there is more. two investigations matter. we will get to the facts.

mike pence appears to have accidentally retain documents. in the case of donald trump, on the other hand he, battle with the national archives for 18 months refusing to return those documents despite their repeated requests to do so. they finally had to escalate that. he used to granary subpoena. he claimed to return all the documents, giving them a small handful. he was still holding more than 20 boxes. it took a search warrant to go into his home to get those. prosecutors would tell you that this handling of classified documents is a very serious matter. it's very careless. it exposes our nation to damage. not all mishandling of classified information is a crime. typically, a crime exists when the retention is willful or when it involves obstruction of justice. the biden case has neither of those features. >> i can't help but wonder if one of those cases that many americans see these cases similarly is because of the appointment of a special counsel by attorney general merrick garland. we know that the special counsel appointed to the

mar-a-lago case and then subsequently appointed to the discovery of classified documents that president biden had at his home and office -- do you see the decision to do that more as necessary or as political? >> you know, i'm always respectful of the facts i don't know. merrick garland knows more than we know about these facts. there are some facts that caused him to do this. he first asked that u.s. attorney in chicago to do a preliminary review to see whether the appointment of a special counsel was merited. i would like to think he has not simply bent over backwards to avoid claims of partisanship. that alone is allowing them to dictate legal decisions. it's like the kid who coaches his own kid in little league. you bench your kid because he's the best player because they're worried about criticism from other parents. i like to think that merrick garland has appointed the

special counsel because he believes the investigation requires that independent decision-maker and not because he's worried about creating the right look. it's an interesting problem with regard to the pence documents. must you appoint a special counsel every time now someone retains classified documents is a possible candidate for president? i don't know. >> while i have you, barbed, i'm curious as to what you make of what we have been hearing from the fulton county da. former president donald trump spoke to one of our affiliates and essentially said he's not necessarily worried at all about it, just worried more politically than anything else. we know the fulton county da essentially said decisions are eminence. for future defendants to be treated fairly, it's not appropriate at this time to have this report released. how worried should he be? >> if you read the tea leaves,

she was very careful not to reveal her hand. i don't think she would be fighting so hard to protect a report that simply says we find a crime was committed here and that the whole matter should be dropped. i don't think there would be a need to protect it if that were the case. she talked about the need to protect witnesses which says to me that there was a likelihood of criminal charges here. she said a decision will be made imminently which suggests, in my mind, i think, a matter of days or weeks but not months. i think he should be worried. >> barbara mcquade, thank you. great to talk to you. we will bear back. great to talk to you we will bear back. we will bear back. by to sleep, so when our windshield cracked, we needed it fixed right. we went to safelite.com. there's no one else we'd trust. their experts replaced our windshield, and recalibrated our car's advanced safety system. they focus on our safety... so we can focus on this little guy.

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