do we think this will give new life to trying to pass the george floyd policing act? >> we've seen democrats, especially those in the congressional black caucus, speak out about the need to pass that act that did not make it past the house in the last congressional session. they'll have a much more difficult time being in the minority right now, but we know that cbc is hoping to meet with biden to see what they can do to move this forward, given where they stand in terms of power. >> that'll be a hot topic as well this week. reporter for axios, eugene scott, great to see you. thanks for being with us. thanks for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> no mother, no mother, no mother should go through what i'm going through right now. no mother. to lose their child to the violent way that i lost my child. i want to say to the five police

officers that murdered my son, you also disgraced your own families when you did this. but you know what? i'm going to pray for you and your families, because at the end of the day, this shouldn't have happened. >> that's right. >> this just shouldn't have happened. >> rowvaughn wells, the mother of tyre nichols, showing her grief while showing grace for the families of the men accused of killing her son. the video showing some of nichols' final moments was released on friday. nichols crying out for his mother, just down the block from her house. it has sparked outrage and protests around the country. more action from the memphis police department, as well. we also got our first look at what happened the night paul

pelosi, the husband of nancy pelosi, was attacked. it comes as the man accused in the attack makes some bizarre and disturbing comments in a phone call about that night. and what more he wanted to do. the brutal beating pelosi sustained was often mocked and questioned by not just far right wingers but members of congress. we're going to look at how they gleefully amplified a loop of misinformation. speaking of misinformation, marjorie taylor greene spread a lot of it about covid. so why is she a house -- on the house select committee investigating the pandemic? we'll play for you speaker kevin mccarthy's answer to that. plus, we'll have new polling on the classified documents cases involving president joe biden and former president donald trump. also, donald trump kicked off his third presidential campaign this weekend, but this run for the white house had a really different approach. couldn't really see the crowds.

at least for now, the approach appears to be very different. we'll explain why that might be just ahead. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, january 30th. joe and willie are off this morning. joe is traveling back here. jonathan lemire, i'll give you the task of telling us who won yesterday's nfl championship games. this falls to you. i am giving you 30 seconds. >> i'm happy to embrace it, mika. we have a good super bowl matchup. how we got there is underwhelming. the kansas city chiefs took on the bengals in arrowhead. patrick mahomes had a bad ankle. he was gutty and played well throughout. back and forth game. the bengals came back to tie it late. we're watching here, with a few seconds to go, under 30 seconds in the game, mahomes on the bad ankle scrambles for a first down. then a late hit penalty. iffy call, i guess it's the right one, against the bengals. tacked on 15 yards, allowing the

chiefs to set up for a game-winning field goal, 48 yarder with a few seconds left. this is a rematch of last year's afc title game. last year, bengals got it. this year, the chiefs. officiating was shaky throughout. bengals fans feel the chiefs got the benefit of the calls. at least the game was compelling. eagles and 49ers was over within minutes. 49ers had this great story. rookie quarterback brock purdy who had been undefeated to this point in the season, he got hurt within a few minutes of the game, had to leave. the backup quarterback got hurt, too. they had to bring back purdy. problem is, he couldn't throw the ball. 49ers couldn't do anything on offense. it was a cakewalk for the eagles. jalen hurts rushed for a touchdown, looked pretty good. ran the ball, forced turnovers. they won in a rout. yesterday may have been underwhelming. this game in two weeks should be a good one. two number one seeds. chiefs and eagles. two black quarterbacks, patrick mahomes and jalen hurts, two of

the best players in the league. should be a fun one. mika, we have two full weeks to talk about it. >> okay. well done, jonathan lemire. thank you. also with us, the host of msnbc's "politics nation," president of the action network, reverend al sharpton. we get to memphis, where the video shows officers beating tyr nichols. the video is every bit as horrific at officials warned it would be. we are not going to show it this morning. body camera footage from surveillance videos show officers hitting, kicking and pepper spraying nichols. several angles totaled more than an hour of footage. in the video, 29-year-old tyre nichols can be heard calling out for his mother. nichols was hospitalized and died three days later. the five officers seen in the video have been fired and charged with second degree murder. multiple attempts by nbc news to

reach the officers for comment have been unsuccessful. after the videos were released, the lawyer for one officer said he would review it with his client, quote, at the appropriate time. after the videos were released, president biden said in a statement that he was outraged. he has called for a swift, full and transparent investigation, and spoke with nichols' parents on friday. reverend al, there is so much to talk about here. first of all, exactly what happened, but then, of course, the legal ripple effects that i think will have a wide swath here. because it is not just the s.c.o.p.i.o.n. unit and what happened to tyre but every other arrest they've made in the past year has to be looked at. maybe every arrest in the entire police department. of course, there's calls for legislation on police brutality. this was depravity at its lowest level, if that is possible. i'm not even sure how many cops were there total, beyond the

five? >> you're absolutely right. there were other police involved that we feel should be charged. clearly, they did not come and not only try to stop it, but they participated in some form or another. but when you look at the fact that these policemen were actually doing acts, beating on this young man, and at the same time, verbally saying different things that were happening. they said, "give us your hands. we want to cuff you," while his arms were up. it makes you feel they were in a premedicated way trying to do a narrative into their body cams to protect them while they inflicted brutality. i imagine they forgot or didn't know about the air cameras that were there in the county that

would give a different view, even if they distorted the body cams. so this is a deliberate, planned way that they attacked him. it makes one wonder, have they done these kinds of things before? >> absolutely. >> i was involved 32 years ago when i started national action network in the rodney king case. this was worse than rodney king. when i saw this, it was absolutely chilling. i'll be doing the eulogy this wednesday at his funeral. as i talked to the parents, the parents have taken this with supreme, superior grace. but at the same time, determination. >> and there has to be justice. the memphis police department has announced it will permanently disband the s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. unit in response to the deadly beating of tyre nichols. all five of the officers charged with nichols' death were members of the unit. the specialized team was meant to focus on violent crime in,

quote, hot spot areas, according to memphis mayor jim strickland. one day after the release of the footage, the police department determined the team should deactivate. in a statement, the department claimed the officers currently assigned to the unit agree unreservedly with this next step. civil rights attorney ben crump, who is representing the nichols family, called the beating of tyre a, quote, pattern and practice for the unit. the police chief promised a complete and independent review of all of the department's units, including s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. joining us now, commissioner of public safety for the city of minneapolis, which has had its share of challenges, cedric alexander. reverend al asks if this has been something that happened with this unit before, and it is impossible to believe it hasn't when you see the video, how they went after this young man and

almost considered it a game for them or some sort of collective groupthink. i'm still trying to understand where the move to disendisengag pullback, to de-escalate, how that couldn't have happened with five cops and other cops standing around. this is a level that is very hard to put into words. i wonder if you could speak on what police officers are trained in terms of de-escalation, and what in the world do you think happened here? >> first of all, good morning to you and the rev. let me start by saying this. it is clear, right from the beginning of that stop, everything we observed on that video certainly does suggest one thing very clear, to me, someone who has been around this profession a very long time, and i believe many of my colleagues across the country would agree. this type of behavior certainly,

without question, probably has been conducted before on the streets of memphis. people had to suffer under the hands of these officers who went way beyond the scope of their duties legally. and i would suggest also, from the beginning of that stop when they snatched him out of the car, their rudeness, brazenness, their cowardly conduct of beating him the way they did, suggests to me even further they were operating without supervision. that is a real problem. where was the supervisor? from the time of the stop to the calls they had to hear over the radio, no supervisor, as far as we know, was en route to the scene or was at that scene. this could have been averted had that supervisor been paying attention, had been there. that is a problem in and of itself. secondly, training that you ask about. training, i would guarantee that

they all have been to training. whether you use that training, whether you exercise that training, which also comes with oversight of supervision, i guarantee you there was a failure there to utilize any training they have ever received, and probably had not ever used any of the training. if you listen to their huffing and puffing, their shortness of breath suggests to me they were in horrible physical condition. when you're in horrible physical condition under those types of stressful situations, you will revert to anything or any method in order to meet that mission. in this particular case, they attempted to subdue him as he, the victim in this case, was crying for help. there was no show of compassion. there was no show of humanity. and they are rightly, and i support chief c.j. davis, who is a friend and colleague, in her

swift actions that she took to have them terminated. subsequently, they were indicted by the d.a. in shelby county. this is tragic and embarrassing to all of us in the law enforcement community. we are ashamed by it, but we are going to do everything we can to continue to move forward and build trust in our communities. >> and, reverend al, the police chief did act accordingly, firing the officers immediately upon seeing the video and also making sure they got charged. having said that, she's got her hands full. i mean, this is a department that is rotten. at least that unit was, it is fair to say. and every single case that has come up to that police department now has to be looked at. >> absolutely. one of the things i do agree is this chief acted swiftly, even before they was charged, before they were charged, she fired them. and she showed a new timeline,

mika. because we've been told in many of these cases, well, it takes time to investigate. we've had to wait months before charges. they will never be able to sell that to the public again when you saw the immediate way this chief acted, and i think properly, as well as the d.a. let me ask you this, cedric. because one of the things that has troubled me since i got involved day one with this -- with the family, is that they have not established even what it is they stopped him for. when you look at the whole tape, and the police chief has said she's reviewed the tape and has not seen any reckless driving, they never really explained why they stopped him in the first place, less known done to him what they did. there's no evidence that there was even a crime they were after. >> and that is going to be problematic, reverend al. because if they can't be able to

identify any reasonable cause, probable cause, as to why they needed to make that stop, it just continues to indicate, i think, to all of us of the reckless behavior and the conduct that they were performing each and every day and night in that community. so that is problematic. that is concerning, that you just are stopping an individual for no particular reason. now, even if they come up with and devise a reason for the stop, that still does not excuse the behavior from when they pulled him over, snatched him out of the car, demeaned him, dehuman -- dehumanized him the way in which they did. that is troubling and painful to all of us. let me say this one thing. 700,000 men and women who serve us every day in this country are embarrassed and shamed. those are the men and women who still come to work every day, those police officers across

this country, who now we have to go out and even work harder to continue to have the trust in our communities across this country. but let's not forget about the good officers here in minneapolis and across this country who work hard every day to make sure that we keep our communities safe and we do it constitutionally. yes, we still got challenges ahead of us across the country, but we're going to get there. events like this are not going to help us. >> mika, there was already a debate across the country as to the utility of these specialized units in the targeting of certain areas. now, of course, this one in memphis disbanded. the word there is dehumanize. that's correct. >> yes. >> the video is -- it's a rage. it is almost a mob mentality, that we see these officers behaving grossly and inappropriately to a person who, as the rev said, we're not even sure what he is accused of doing

wrong. certainly, he was calling for his mother there. yet, the viciousness of the attack didn't alleviate at all, didn't cease. i think that this is now a moment we, you know, couple years ago, we thought an inflection point after george floyd died. the national conversation, it was an important conversation to have, the relationship between police and community. we're having it again. part of the conversation is not much has changed. >> actually, to cedric alexander's point, this specific event actually shows us the extent of our challenges. just how deep the problem can run in some police departments. minneapolis, commissioner of public safety, cedric alexander, thank you very much for being on this morning. we look forward to talking to you again as we continue to follow every angle of this story. still ahead on "morning joe," much more from memphis following the release of that police body cam video showing the brutal assault of tyre nichols. we'll get an update on the

investigation from the shelby county district attorney. plus, we'll be joined by the parents of tyre nichols this morning. we'll also discuss policing in america with former congresswoman and orlando police chief val demings, who says police can't wait for legislation. they must reform themselves. also ahead, democrat wes moore will join us to talk about his first week as governor of maryland. plus, a troubling prediction from a top air force official about a potential war with china within the next two years. and what's being called a sleepily start to donald trump's 2024 campaign. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ today my friend you did it, you did it, you did it... ♪ good news!

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to at 22 past the hour. san francisco police released clips from last october's vicious assault on paul pelosi, the husband of nancy pelosi. it includes video from capitol police, showing the suspect, david depape, breaking into the home in the middle of the night. it includes police body cam video at the house and depape attacking pelosi with a hammer. we warn you, this video of what exactly happened is disturbing. >> how you doing? >> morning. >> what's going on, man? >> everything is good. >> hi. >> drop the hammer. >> nope. >> hey, hey, hey. >> what is going on right here? >> whoa! [ bleep ].

>> backup, code 3. >> meanwhile, the man charged with attacking paul pelosi is speaking out in a bizarre jailhouse phone call. depape contacted a local tv station in the bay area, essentially confessing to the crime and apologizing for not doing more damage. >> i want to apologize to everyone. i messed up. what i did was really bad. i'm so sorry i didn't get more of them. it's my own fault. no one else is to blame. i should have come better prepared. >> inspired by trump, 42-year-old depape is charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, elder abuse, residential burglary, false imprisonment and threatening a public official for the attack on the 82-year-old pelosi.

he has pleaded not guilty. the release of the body cam video is also putting a sharper focus on how some far-right republicans, leaders, activists, media outlets, began spreading groundless claims about the attack on paul pelosi almost immediately after it happened. disinformation. nearly all of them sinister and many homophobic, trying to cast doubt on what actually happened. former republican congressman adam kinzinger of illinois tweeted out this list from the "seattle times," calling out 20 elected officials, candidates and/or prominent figures, or people who want to be prominent, who made fun of paul pelosi or helped spread misinformation about the attack in the days after. and when i read this list, i mean, keep in mind, this is your republican party. high-level names being --

behaving in a disgraceful way. some of the republican politics include texas senator ted cruz, who amplified doubts that all the facts were disclosed. georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene, who suggested pelosi knew his attacker. louisiana congressman clay higgins, who suggested the attack involved male prostitution. north carolina lieutenant governor mark robinson, who raised doubts about the details of the attack. georgia statehouse candidate, ben benningfield, who suggested the attack might have been staged. royce white who claimed the attack involved an extramarital gay affair. arizona state senator wendy rogers, who suggested the attack might have been staged. florida state representative anthony sabbatini, who suggested that the pelosis are hiding

vital information. new york congresswoman claudia teney, who ampliied an extramarital gay affair. glenn beck raising doubts about the details of the attack. far-right commentator, de souza, claimed the attack involved an extramarital gay affair. one of the ivy leaguers really casting a dark light on his institution. so embarrassing. far-right commentator ryan fournier said details were fabricated. former deputy assistant to president trump, gorka, raised doubts about the details of the attack. fox news host and media personality megyn kelly raised doubts that all facts were being disclosed. elon musk amplified a conspiracy theory about male prostitution.

former republican congressman devin nunes repeated a false report, that the attacker was in his underwear. far-right activist michael savage raised doubts all facts were disclosed. roger stone said it was staged. former president donald trump, all y'all's leader, because you can't quit him, don't know what to do with yourselves, suggested the attack was staged. words that come to mind, soulless, depraved, unfit, just not serious. really damaging to our democracy. let's bring in the founder of the conservative website the bulwark, charlie sykes. we get used to this behavior, and that's exactly what trump did. the firehose of falsehoods, the terrible, disgusting, depraved behavior, racism, sexism, all things he brought to the table, to the point where people are

almost immune to it, used to it. these are the republican leaders right now. when you see the video about paul pelosi, you think about what they did, tweeting away, a bunch of losers trying to become relevant, but destroying the fabric of our society in the process. >> where does paul pelosi go to get his apology? how many of those officials or those figures have said, you know, i'm sorry, i was wrong about all of this? how many of them have reached out to the pelosi family? how many of them have gone back to their audiences. >> one. elon musk. >> yeah, sort of. you know, sort of an apology/non-apology. i'm glad you're highlighting this, doubling back. there needs to be some accountable. to your point, we can't get numbed about all of this. here you had a vicious attack. you see the loop of conspiracy theories, of disinformation, the

kinds of tweets that were being put out that mocked this attack. when, in fact, what you saw was exactly as it was described in the earlier police report. and i think it is a pretty good illustration of the way in which this vicious misinformation has become a part of the norm, at least on the right. and without any conscience whatsoever. there's no hesitancy these days to mock a vicious and what could have been a fatal attack on an 82-year-old man. the lack of humanity, the lack of decency, the lack of concern for the truth really on display there. and i hope people do look at this graphic. all of the people who put out this misinformation and who have yet to apologize or to correct. >> i mean -- >> it is really a powerful

thing. i'm really glad you read that. we really need to know who these people are and what they are capable of doing and their lack of remorse afterwards. >> well, and if you look at these names and faces, these are a mixture of people who are in power. i don't know if we can put the graphic up. and people who are trying to get power, trying to become relevant again, who have been knocked out of the media business or whatever. doesn't matter. when you are jumping to make fun of or push lies about an 82-year-old man getting smashed over the head, you have lost it. >> yeah. you're sick. this is not what we want out of our leaders. i can tell you, there are american citizens who are republicans and voted in the midterms and said to themselves, i don't like insurrections. i don't like people who tell

lies. i don't like people who sold their soul to donald trump or a desperate need to get attention on the back of someone who has been brutalized. this is sick behavior. >> cruelty is a point. brutality is also an ideology. this celebration of violence in a world in which a vicious attack like this can, you know, result in not just the lies but also kind of the wink-wink, isn't this cool? and you have the attacker who then calls in and says, i apologize i didn't get more. well, who is he playing to? where does he come from? we have created an ugly political cultural moment where, in fact, violence is celebrated. you have the former president giving speeches in which he makes it clear that brutality is, in fact, the point. and we wonder how then it manifests itself in the rest of society.

so you had this attack which was, you know, evil enough, but the response and the continuing response is its own, you know, tell about how sick our political culture has become. >> not only, rev, did we not get apologies from these figures over the weekend, some doubled down. the release on friday, still raising questions with what the video showed, trying to make insinuations between paul pelosi and the man we saw hit him with a hammer over the head. donald trump jr. among those doing that. but to charlie's point, it does seem like it is just another moment where the normalization of political violence, that this is after january 6th. you know, we've had instances of the violent rhetoric picking up. we have seen this terrible incident. we have seen other incidents where violence has been threatened. it's the conspiracies that are taking center stage, and many of those embracing the conspiracies are being put in positions in

power in the republican house of representatives. >> that is probably the most frightening. to see those that came to notoriety giving, selling, promoting conspiracy theories that were far, far away from the truth, now in positions of real power in government. to see people in real power just fabricate things about mr. pelosi, a victim that is fighting for recovery, and just making all kindsroneous statements about him. when the tape comes out to show exactly what happens, they won't recount. the normalization that sykes is talking about is frightening. that means anyone can be subjected to this at any time, and it won't even matter. we become numb to the fact that people in this country can be targeted and, in many ways, harmed, if not worse, and it'll be all right. we're going to the next story.

just two weeks ago, we saw asians killed in california. a week later, we see police brutality in memphis. we're like, okay, what's next, like we're watching the countdown to the super bowl rather than a real erosion of where we are in this country in terms of our values and our morals. >> all right. as we saw the assault on paul pelosi and, you know, the video is horrific, just as we go to break, want to take another look at the graphic of all the people who jumped to make fun of an 82-year-old man having his head bashed in, who is still recovering today. take it in. take it in. these names, these names put out depraved disinformation. brought to you probably by the example set by donald trump. you see his name on the list, as well. he was front and center with it. why does it matter?

because donald trump hit the campaign trail this weekend. this list should show you that we should never underestimate trump's impact, what he has done to this country, what he has done to our democracy, what he has done to our members of congress,exemplifying their weakness and depravity in some cases, and what he still can do. coming up on "morning joe," donald trump's campaign limping into its beginning phases. we'll have the very latest when we come back.

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i've said over and over again he can't win a general election. that's not speculation. that's based upon the polling that i was privy to pre 2020 election and what we saw happen in the 2020 election. it's gotten worse since then. add to it what you saw happen in

2022, the elections and bad candidates like mastriano in pennsylvania, trending the pennsylvania ticket down in a historic way. kari hall, masters, jones. entire list, loser, loser, loser, loser. i think republicans are recognizing that. >> one of the reasons he became the republican nominee in 2016 is because he won the first primary state, your state of new hampshire. could he do that again? >> oh, he could. i don't think he will. he could. you know, one thing, obviously, he started his campaign after the election in '22. that, obviously, had a had the of stumbling blocks he was trying to overcome. comes to new hampshire and gives a mundane speech. he read the teleprompter. he's not bringing the energy and fire from 2016. it was disappointing to some folks. >> another thing just a visual,

but people on stage with him look uncomfortable. it's just a snapshop. new hampshire's republican governor chris sununu with that assessment of donald trump's weekend stop in his state where trump addressed an annual state party meeting at a high school auditorium. trump was in south carolina where he introduced his state leadership team. that's the picture at the state capitol before speaking. his speeches in both states largely mirrored each other and focused on his usual grievances. let's bring in senior writer for "the dispatcher," david drucker. never underestimate donald trump is something that i've learned to say from the get-go. having said that, something did seem really different over the weekend. >> well, look, i think, mika, what is different this time is he's not a new politician on the scene who is the ultimate change agent. what really worked for him in 2016 in a republican party but

also in the general election is that he was the change agent. change agents tend to be successful in presidential elections. he's now a six year, seven year incumbent, essentially. he's been on the scene that long. his policy program isn't new. what he did in 2016 and the '22 campaign, voters are used to it. we forget but this is a big deal, he won in 2016. republicans looked at that and said, i may not like everything he says or does, but if he can win, we've got to capitalize on that. after 2018, 2020 and 2022, there's now some disenchantment with trump. however, as you mention, and this is a really big deal, he is the front runner because a good third of the republican base is still with him or at least willing to support him. if we have a crowded primary, he

can get through with a plurality. >> charlie, i don't know if you want to take it to david, but quickly to david's point, it's old, but what he does on stage is different. now, he is dealing with smaller audiences. they're inside. it gets in his head. trump starts to sweat. when he had the mass i have -- massive crowds, and i remember one of the first in alabama, it was a show. his shtick was a show. he brought in huhumor, some was sick. i'm not saying it was great, but it kept the audience going and roused up the audience. that audience fed him to continue with it. i remember calling joe, watching him in alabama. i don't know where joe was, but i was calling him and i said, "this is bad. this guy is going to do okay.

he is going to win the primary." we said that very early on. i don't see that same candidate. >> no. >> i see something -- something is more bloated, limping along, not really into it. >> yeah, it's got a real fat elvis vibe to it. >> yeah. >> it was low energy. it was sleepy. it was very much not the charismatic donald trump of the past, and i put that in quotation marks. david's analysis is exactly right. it is still very, very early. even though he is diminished and sleepy and he is much, much slower, right now, he is the default nominee for the republican party. it's more likely than not that he will win. you have to, you know, keep reminding yourself, don't underestimate this guy. >> that's right. >> he can win with 38%, 40% of the republican base if there is a crowded field.

the republican party will coalesce around him if they have to. even the never again trumpers won't commit to not supporting him if he is the nominee. and as of this moment, he is the only candidate who is announced. we're all sitting around here waiting for ron desantis, who may or may not run. he is completely untested, and i think that is the big question mark. you know, a lot of republicans are saying, yes, we want to take the off-ramp and move on. we need new blood. but until they actually do it, we need to keep reminding ourselves what happened in 2016 and what this republican party has shown that it is capable of doing and rallying around donald trump. >> david, to charlie's point, you can't beat something with nothing. eventually, republicans are going to have to field other candidates. one you've been zeroing in on is mike pompeo who, of course, served as cia director for trump and then secretary of state.

you write about how he's on the offensive against trump. he's cozied up to the saudis, which is a strange campaign tactic to my eyes. but tell us what you think pompo is up to. >> pompeo is holding meetings with donors, with activists. he is taking a look at potential staff hires. he is doing everything that somebody who wants to run for president is going to do. so i asked him about that. he's treading lightly, i think like a lot of other candidates. not all but like a lot of them, he wants to see not only how strong trump is but what ron desantis, the governor of florida, does. i asked pompei know if any sense of loyalty to donald trump would keep him out of the race. he said absolutely not. another really interesting part of the interview, which will drop later with our dispatch politics newsletter, is what he has been doing in relation to classified documents. has he looked for them. he said he thinks he has, and he doesn't think he has any. has he been contacted by the department of justice or nara?

he didn't want to discuss that. there are a number of foreign policy topics, how he'd handle china, which he gets into in his book, which he discussed. despite how strong donald trump remains in the republican party, he is not strong enough anymore to keep out competitors. so the key with his potential competitors from chris christie to mike pompeo to nikki haley to mike pence, it's not whether they can win or not. that's a question that has to be answered. but they're not staying away simply because he is in. what they're trying to avoid is a repeat of 2016. some of them will run, and you cannot beat trump with nothing. he will not go away on his own. so the question becomes, for whoever runs, will they go at him the way it is necessary to do so, to show the base that you are a fighter? then rather than take a chance

on another four years, if trump could get through a general election, why would you take chance on another eight years? >> david drucker, charlie sykes, they're both for being on this morning. coming up, headlines making front pages of the newspapers across the country. in our next hour, maryland governor wes moore joins us for the first time since he took office. "morning joe" is back in just a moment. humpty dumpty does it with a great fall. wonderful pistachios. get crackin' there's a different way to treat hiv. it's every-other-month, injectable cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's one less thing to think about while traveling.

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the early months of the pandemic without getting to say good-bye to them. hospitals were not allowing visitors in an effort to contain the spread of covid. experts in japan and sweden say those restrictions have had several negative consequences on not only the patient's health but also the well-being on family members. "the atlanta journal constitution" reports voters regained trust in georgia's elections. confidence hit a low point after the 2020 contest. now, a new poll finds 73% of registered voters were very confident or somewhat confident that this past election was conducted fairly and accurately. that's up from 56% of voters one year ago. "the chicago tribune" leads with illinois governor jb pritzker's vow to make preschool available for every family. in order to do that, the state would have to find a solution to the current staffing shortages and boost funding for early

childhood education programs. right now, illinois spends nearly $600 million on the programs. it is not clear how much universal pre-k would cost the state. let's go to mississippi. "the ledger" has a bill where it is harder for electric car companies to sell their products in the state. the legislation would bar automakers from operating their own brick and mortar locations. instead, they'd have to sell vics through an independent dealer or franchise. supporters say this would even the playing field between traditional dealerships and electric car companies. and "florida today" reports the state is seeing an influx in new residents. officials say more than 583,000 people traded in their out of state licenses for a sunshine state address last year. that's 28% higher than the average over the previous six years. the majority of those new

florida residents came from another country. coming up, former congresswoman and orlando police chief val demings joins us to talk about policing in america. plus, we'll get a live report from newport news, virginia, where students are back in class this morning for the first time since the shooting of a first grade teacher by her 6-year-old student. also aheadahead, one of our quotes say reality is blurred, boredom is intolerable and everything is entertainment. are we already living in the metaverse? we'll explain that straight ahead on "morning joe."

they just brought disgrace to themselves. you know, i'm not an evil person. my son is not an evil person. we're going to forgive these people. i actually pray for their families because their families didn't deserve any of this either. >> wow. >> they just brought disgrace to everyone. >> that is the mother of tyre nichols, answering a question from reverend al sharpton about the five officers accused of beating her son to death. the video showing the beating that led to his death is as horrific as we had all been warned. people across the country took to the streets to protest, something we've seen far too often in the past few years. former congresswoman and orlando police chief val demings is standing by with insight into this case. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, january 30th.

jonathan lemire, reverend al sharpton still with us. we have a lot to get to this hour. donald trump is back on the campaign trail, and we have an update, of course, on paul pelosi and the video that was released on his attack. most importantly, the republicans and their response to the attack and how depraved it looks in retrospect. we'll begin this hour with the very latest out of memphis following friday's release of video showing officers beating, hitting, kicking and pepper spraying tyre nichols. memphis police released several angles, totaling more than an hour of footage. in the video, 29-year-old tyre nichols can be heard calling out for his mother. and now, the memphis police department has announced it will permanently disband the s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. unit in response to this. that raises questions. all five of the officers charged with nichols' death were members of that unit. the specialized team was meant to focus on violent crime in, quote, hot spot areas. they were the hot spot area

according to memphis mayor jim strickland. that's what their focus was. just one day after the release of footage showing the officers beating nichols, the police department determined this team should deactivate. in a statement, the department claimed the officers currently assigned to the unit agree unreservedly with this next step. civil rights attorney ben crump, who is representing the nichols family, called the beating of tyre, quote, a pattern and practice for the unit. the memphis city police chief promised a complete and independent review of all of the department's units, including s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. joining us now, former congresswoman val demings. more importantly at this point, she was orlando's chief of police from 2007 to 2011. i just would love to dig into your insight as a former police chief, val. it's good to have you on the show. but, and i mean this very honestly, can you imagine this happening in your department?

what happened here? >> well, let me say good morning and thanks for having me back. every former police executive and every current one ought to be thinking about, this could be my department or it could have been. this could be or could have been my officers. i mean, let's think about it. let me just remind everyone of what you already painfully know. they kicked him in the face. they punched him in the face. our policy, and i'm sure many policies at police departments across the country, said no strikes above the shoulders unless deadly force was justified. clearly, that was not the case here. they beat him in his back with their baton. they sprayed him. they tased him. they beat him to the point where he called out for his mother. now, if every decent person in this country, elected officials, police executives, activists and

others, don't understand what went wrong in this case, that we definitely need to do something, i'm not sure where they've been or what they've been thinking or where they are. >> i mean -- >> this is shocking and appalling. >> val, it just looks like abuse of power. but the fact that they seem to be almost feeding each other on, enjoying it, it was -- it looked like something they've done before. and, i mean, failure to de-escalate. failure to administer care. everything failed here. >> everything went wrong, and i called it a night that clearly went off the rails. i am glad, relieved to hear the actions that chief davis is taking with this unit. look, i understand specialized units. of course, we had them at the police department. many of them were the results of calls from citizens to do

something about gang activity and drug activity in particular communities. they can serve a good purpose. but with this unit, i would pull every arrest, every encounter, every interaction. there has to be a complete review. let me say this. police officers, look, we work a lot based off of hunches. and i have a hunch, and it's a sad one. i question whether there was ever a legitimate reason to stop tyre nichols. i have seen -- and, look, as a former police chief, i have watched the video from every possible angle. look, we put up pole cameras in our community, too, to catch criminals. i guess memphis did that. i've watched this video over and

over again, looking for something that would understand the beginning, why this happened, why it started in the first place. and i have not been able to see where there was ever a legitimate, justifiable reason for the stop. we have to get to the bottom of it. >> so, congresswoman, i know reverend al wants to jump in here, but i just want to point out what you just said here. i mean, are you inferring they were just looking for someone to beat up? >> you know, mika, let me say this. i spent 27 years there. i served in every rank. it's a profession that i loved. i consider it family. i've seen policing at its best. i've seen policing at its worst. i've worked with some great officers. we know that the overwhether he will -- overwhelming majority are decent people trying to do a tough job. but i have to, and every police

executive, sheriffs, chiefs all over this country need to wonder, was this a targeted stop? if it was not, give us the evidence that it was not. i've seen nothing to justify this stop. if it starts wrong, it's damn sure going to end wrong, which it did. >> yeah. >> chief, congresswoman, i've called you titles for years, so i'll just say ms. demings, you write at a point i was making. there was no established cause of the stop in the first place, even the police chief there has said she's not, after reviewing the tapes, seen where there was any reckless driving. the other thing that i want to address that is so disturbing, and you know this better than anyone as a chief, you could address it. as you look at the tape after the actual beating, where he is laying there and they wait all these minutes for finally

someone to come, you know, with the ambulance and to bring him to the hospital, they're not even discussing then among themselves, we were looking for a gun or he was driving -- there's no chitchat about an alleged crime. how does that, from your vantage point as a chief, what does that say about the culture of these special units? certainly, we all salute this chief who, before there were even charges, fired them. but the psyche of people, that we're just standing around waiting minutes, many minutes, for medical people to come, and they're not even talking about, "well, search the car for this or that." they're not even looking for a crime. >> reverend al, you make such a good point. when the dispatcher clearly asked -- and, look, i've heard this many times myself as an officer on the street who is engaged in a foot pursuit or,

you know, vehicle pursuit. when the dispatcher rightly asked, "what are the charges?" there was complete silence. >> yeah. >> it is what it is. if you -- if the charge was reckless driving, if he was engaged in reckless driving, the officer would have quickly, a reasonable officer, let me put it that way, would have quickly said, "it's reckless driving. we stopped him. he went after our gun. he tried to." there was silence. that is a strong indication that something was drastically wrong with this case. and you're right, even after -- okay, things have, you know -- tyre is in custody. there is no discussion. the supervisor usually comes to

the scene. the sergeant or watch commander comes to the scene and, okay, "start from the beginning. tell us what happened." so there are a lot of unanswered questions. yes, i commend chief davis. i know her personally. she's well trained and well experienced from atlanta pd to durham to now memphis. i commend her for taking quick action. many states have officers bill of rights that may, you know, complicate that, but i commend her for taking the quick action that she did. but there is still a lot of unanswered questions. the family deserves that and police officers, good police officers deserve to have those questions answered. >> they sure do. just one quick police chief question. to the point you were making earlier, and they don't know what they were stopping him for. if anything, would you want investigators and maybe even the press should try to get this, to look at the footage in the hours

leading up to this incident, to see what their mindset was, to see what they -- you know, to gif a full picture? >> you know, i would certainly believe that chief davis is probably doing just that. it is very important to understand. you know, when you want to understand the full truth and nothing but the truth and the whole picture, then you start at the beginning. so i certainly would be very interested, from the time these officers went in service that night, that evening, and every step along the wa that they made, it is critical to us, fully understanding and being able to move forward. >> all right. former congresswoman val demings. thank you very, very much for coming on the show this morning. it's always good to see you. we appreciate your insight. >> thank you. >> thank you. joining us now, democratic governor of maryland, wes moore.

wes, you've made history in the state. the first black governor. i want to talk to you a little bit about, you know, what your plans are. but, first, let's talk about this. you, obviously, are governor of a state that has cities that has seen its own issues with police violence. what questions come to mind in light of what we have seen in the video from this memphis murder? >> yeah. i mean, that video is horrific. and i say that as not only the state's governor and the only black governor in this country, but as a human being. the level of barbarism that they showed, that these individuals showed to mr. nichols is just beyond comprehension. the fact is, you know, we would be -- we would be outraged if that was anybody. but the people who did it to him

were people whose job it was to protect him. >> yeah. >> and so, you know, it goes to show that, you know, the culture that we're still -- that we still have to unearth and that we have to address, that it is about how exactly are we making sure that we are getting the right people in these seats with the right reforms? it's one of the reasons why, in our budget, you know, we actually released a $122 million for local law enforcement with a specific focus on things like recruitment and retaining good officers and what does training look like. also, we've got to address some of the laws still. as dr. king said, laws don't change the heart, but they protect me from the heartless. so we have to be able to address things like how we think about reform for the justification for policing stops and for traffic stops. what is the attorney general's right to be able to prosecute and intervene? so i'm thankful that we have a department here that did move quickly, and that we have the department of justice that's involved in this.

but it's just another unneeded reminder about the kind of reforms that we still have to see to create that level of support and trust within community and law enforcement. >> i started to say wes, but i have to say governor wes now. >> yes, you do. >> as you outline about the training and the culture, you and i worked together on police reform. >> that's right. >> the other part of this is the kind of policemen, but the dehumanizing of blacks, even by blacks in law enforcement. >> yes. >> you had the great case right there in maryland before you were governor, where black officer were involved. just adding blacks, having diversity, is not enough if we're not dealing with what policing is and what the laws are. >> that's right. >> because these were five black cops that did this to him. i don't think they would have done it if he was white. but notwithstanding that, if he

was white, they shouldn't be able to do this. >> reverend al, you're absolutely right. that's why i would caution anyone to simply say, well, the answer to this is we need a greater level of diversification within the police force. that's not the answer. the thing we continue to see is, you know, you can have the variable of who the law enforcement officer is, that could change. the challenge is the thing that's not changing. oftentimes, the color of the victim in these type of cases, these type of crimes. and so the thing that we have to make sure is that, as we're having law enforcement who are going on and, again, who are doing really important and necessary work, you have to have those levels of support. we also have to understand that the training that comes in, the cultural training that comes in, that we have laws that are appropriate and that the training is actually helping people and preparing people for the situations that they're going to encounter once they're

on the job. >> governor moore, good morning. jonathan lemire. want to shift gears here. president biden is on a bit of a tour this week, touting infrastructure, his infrastructure bill and progress being made. he'll be in new york city tomorrow. he's in your state, baltimore, today. tell us about the project which he will visit and why it's so important to your state. >> yes, we are very, very excited to welcome the president back to maryland. we're now nine days in. we've started fast and are just getting started. we're excited to welcome the president here. together, we're going to jointly announce innovation and a development of something called the frederick douglass tunnel, which is going to be a historic investment in mass transit within maryland. it's going to create about 30,000 jobs. 20,000 construction jobs. so this truly is about

employment. it's about economic growth. also, by making these enhancements in this tunnel, we're going to increase speed of transit and also reliability. we're very excited about the partnership that we've continued to foster with the federal government and really looking forward to this being one of the first of many rollouts we're going to have between maryland and how we think about our transportation future going forward. >> this is beyond investment and infrastructure. gif us an outline, if you will, about some of your priorities here as your term begins. certainly, your election was historic, but now the work begins. what are some of the things you're hoping to tackle first? what are the biggest challenges facing your state? >> if you look at the first days, literally the first day we're in office, you know, sign and order to release $69 million of funds. previously unreleased funds that focus on everything from climate change to the equitable rollout of the cannabis industry to

ensuring we are actually having training and supports for providers who are providing abortion supports. when we said maryland is going to be a safe haven for abortion rights, i meant it. literally, our first executive order was the create of a department focusing on service and civic innovation. where we want all marylanders to know we need their fingerprints on the future of this state. that maryland will be the state that serves. this is actually going to be the home of the service year option. maryland will be the first state in this country to have, or we are providing the opportunity for all high school graduates to have a year of service to the state of maryland. we're going to focus on economic growth. we're going to focus on making sure we can be a state that's both more competitive and also more equitable. and we're starting off on day one to be able to make absolutely sure that becomes a reality for the people of this state. >> governor of maryland wes moore, thank you. congratulations. i haven't seen you since you became governor, but congratulations. it's really great to have you on the show this morning.

>> it's great to be with you all. thank you so much. >> all right. take care. still ahead on "morning joe," metal detecters and clear backpacks are the new normal for students returning today to the virginia elementary school, where a teacher was shot by her 6-year-old student. we'll get a live report from newport news, next on "morning joe." we'll be right back. to where they're going. and at chevron, we're working to help reduce the carbon intensity of the fuels that keep things moving. today, we're producing renewable diesel that can be used in existing diesel tanks. and we're committed to increasing our renewable fuels production. because as we work toward a lower carbon future, it's only human to keep moving forward. [beep... beep... beep...] i'm your glitchy wi-fi and i've decided... well, if you're on vacation, i am too.

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security measures at the door. still, many parents feeling anxious about return to school. this morning, it's back to school for the students of richneck elementary. the scene where police say a 6-year-old intentionally shot his teacher, 25-year-old abigail zwerner, inside a classroom earlier this month. the elementary school, as well as all schools in the district, will now use metal detecters. the school is also said to be providing clear backpacks for students. as the investigation into the shooting continues, zwerner's attorney is preparing to file a lawsuit against the newport news school district. saying the administration failed to act, despite multiple warnings of imminent danger. >> three times, school administration was warned by concerned teachers and employees that the boy had a gun on him at the school and was threatening people. but the administration could not be bothered.

>> reporter: the school district declined to comment, citing the ongoing investigation. a source close to the situation also revealing about an hour before she was shot, southwesternzwerner texted a loved one and showed her frustration over the school's lack of response. she was frustrated because she was trying to get help with this child, for this child. when she needed help, no one was coming. nbc news has not seen the text message. meanwhile, staff shakeups continue with the school board firing the superintendent and new leadership at the elementary school, according to a district spokesperson. a spokesperson for the school district told cnn the principal has been reassigned. the troubling incident shot lighting the fears of many parents as they send their kids off to school. maria has two young kids at richneck elementary. >> i don't think anything they have done has eased or lessened my worries about them returning

to school. feels like we can't trust, you know, the staff at all. >> reporter: well, mika, the newport news police department says their investigation is ongoing into potential charges. it should wrap up sometime in the next two weeks. in the meantime, that 6-year-old's parents released a statement saying he suffers from an acute disability, and they continue to pray for the full recovery of abigail zwerner. mika? >> nbc's catie beck, thank you very much. we'll be following that. one of the men charged with assaulting capitol police officer brian sicknick on january 6th, 2021, has been sentenced to more than six years in prison. julian cater, who admitted to spraying sicknick and another officer with a chemical irritant, was sentenced to 80 months in prison on friday with credit for 22 months of time served. his co-defendant, george tanos,

who bought the spray, had time serves. prosecutors declined to charge the two men with sicknick's . western countries are pledging tanks to ukraine for the country to use in its defense. the training process is now under way, very quickly getting this together. the united kingdom ministry of defense tweeting these images over the weekend of ukrainian tank crews arriving in the uk to be trained on the challenger 2 tanks the uk is providing. the ukrainian ambassador to france said on friday that a total of 321 heavy tanks have been promised to ukraine from various countries. a four-star u.s. air force general is warning his officers to prepare for war with china within two years according to a memo obtained by nbc news.

the head of air command told his officers more will happen in 2025. he also told them to get ready to prep by firing, quote, a clip at a target and aim for the head. he reasoned since taiwan and u.s. will have presidential elections in 2024, the u.s. will be distracted. chinese president xi jinping will have the opportunity to move on taiwan. meanwhile, the department of defense responded to the memo. quote, these comments are not representative of the department's view on china. second gentleman douglas emhoff will meet with european leaders in berlin today for a discussion on combating anti-semitism. following his exclusive interview with joe on friday, from the former side of the auschwitz concentration camp in poland. the second gentleman visited with ukrainian refugees and

local jewish leaders. he's also stopped at a factory once owned by oscar schindler, who is credited with saving more than 1,000 jews from the nazis during world war ii. on saturday, he reacted to the news of an attack outside a synagogue in east jerusalem, where seven people were shot and killed. >> this is a terrorist attack. this is murder. these were people who were just praying in a temple. living their everyday lives. they were murdered in cold blood, and it is not acceptable. it's something that we need to just stop. >> we'll continue to follow his efforts there. jonathan lemire, i want to swing back to the story pertaining to china and the memo that was released. war with china. concept that's out there now. i'm wondering if the white house

is saying anything about this? >> certainly, it's the administration officials i've talked to the last couple days, and reflected in the pentagon statement, not thrilled with this freelancing opinion floated by the air force officer there. i mean, there is concern here, that as china has had a rough couple of years domestically, you know, the rollback of the zero covid policy, the economy is not growing anywhere near as quickly as they would have liked. we have seen some rare protests there in china. there is a sense that, and fears in the west with intelligence officials, that if there is trouble at home, chinese president xi jinping may have foreign adventures. he made it clear he believes taiwan is part of china and, in his words, paraphrasing slightly, reunification is inevitable. we heard, of course, president biden say that can't happen. taiwan is independent and should be respected. there is a looming flashpoint on the horizon. president biden, it is unclear if he is shifting policy, but it

would not be a direct intervention, akin to ukraine. certainly, this is a looming flashpoint on the horizon. whether or not this is direct war remains to be seen. let's certainly hope not. keeping an eye on that. as well as the escalating tension and violence in the middle east, too. there has been a number of clashes in recent days. that is another issue certainly on the white house's radar. in fact, secretary of state blinken in the region as we speak. coming up, mark zuckerberg is spending billions on developing the metaverse. it is a confusing project that is supposed to be the next phase of the internet. but our next guest believes we're already living in it. that conversation is straight ahead. plus, new polling on abortion access that shows a shift in support from republican voters. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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♪♪ 37 past the hour. u.s. surgeon general murthy is warning that young children should not be on social media. in a recent interview, he said 13-year-olds are still developing their identities and are too young to join. >> when i talk to kids around the country about social media, they tell me three things very consistently. number one, it often makes them feel worse about themselves. number two, it often makes them feel worse about their friendships, as they see people doing and having all kind of experiences without them. and the third is that they can't get off of it. right? these are designed to hook our kids, and all of us, and to bring us in. if we say, use the force of your

willpower to depend how much time you're spending, you're pitting a child against the world's best designers. not a fair fight. the new cover story "the atlantic" says we're already living in the metaverse. we've been engulfed by a new era of visual entertainment, that is so completely immersive, we'r essentially living within it and haven't realized it yet. reality is so blurred. boredom has become intolerable. garber writes, in part, this could be how we lose the plot. this could be the somber finale of america, the limited series. perhaps it's not too late for us to do what the denizens of the fictional dystopias could not: look up from the screens, seeing the world as it is, and one another as we are. be transported by our entertainment but not bound by

it. and megan garber joins us now, staff writer at "the atlantic." the book is "on misdirection, the mayhem on american politics." i couldn't agree more, and i'm frightened for generations to come. describe what your thesis is. >> sure. it is very much this idea of inescapability of entertainment. we tend to think of entertainment as one facet of life, as something that, you know, is over in one corner. it's our escapism. it is our joy. it's our fun. what this essay is arguing that, in fact, entertainment is no longer one facet of life. it is evermore becoming the only facet of life. it is what our politics bends to. it is what our culture bends to. entertainment has become immersive in the way that the science fiction writers and the writers of dystopias imagined

for us. they imagined words where entertainment would become so compelling, we wouldn't want to escape it. that could be a means of controlling us as publics. i think we are dangerously close to being in that moment right now. >> i couldn't agree with you more. you write about the attempts to make even the mundane entertaining. because americans can't tolerate anything less. quote, dwell in this environment long enough, and it becomes difficult to process the facts of the world through anything except entertainment. we've become so accustomed to its heightened atmosphere, the real version of things starts to seem dull by comparison. a weather app recently sent me a push notification offering to tell me about interesting storms. i didn't know i nodeneeded my ss to be interesting. or an email from turbotax. we've pulled together the best tax moments and created your own

personalized tax story. here was the entertainment imperative at its most absurd. even my form 1040 comes with a highlight reel. entertainment is becoming reality. there used to be a real differentiation. >> that's right. exactly. i think there's something very american about this. you know, we, as a culture, have long kind of feared boredom. life, liberty, the right not to be bored. we have shaped our society around this idea, that kind of the world owes us entertainment. life owes us fun on some level. i think we've now reached really an extreme and dangerous, i would say, point, too. i mean, we could also point to the january 6th committee hearings, for example. the fact that it was sort of taken for granted that, for those to succeed as political proceedings, they would also have to succeed as entertainment. they would have to succeed as, you know, distraction, as fun. you know, these were about

interrogating a violent coup attempt, and i don't think that that necessarily needs to be fun. i think that that, you know, much like the storms, that's interesting on its own, i would say. yet, you know, we have these ideas that even something like that, even this matter of very significant politics had to be somehow entertaining. >> megan, what you just addressed is what speaks to me out of your article. now, we see even the politicians, those that are public figures. i'm even seeing in the ministry, people that are trying to become more entertaining than substantive and playing toward that. talk about that some. because when you addressed that in the article, it's almost like, we don't leave the political rally or political discussion or even church, then go entertain. we are now seeing people trying to entertain us in those spaces. >> exactly that.

entertainment just becomes the standard that everything hues to. i almost think of it as gravity. at a certain point, everything will cede to gravity. that's how entertainment is becoming, i think. yeah, it's overriding a lot of our traditional values. you know, wisdom used to be a value that a lot of people shared. in a lot of ways, you know, wisdom is being overcome by just the ability to put on a good show. we see that, i think, in so many dimensions of life. we see that in education, as well. teachers are rated on their ability to put on a good performance, to keep people entertained. in some ways, that is completely fine. my favorite teachers have generally been the ones who did entertain me in some base. when that becomes the only standard, when that's the only thing we judge people on, that we judge our culture on in a lot of ways, that's when it becomes a problem. >> megan, connect for us, if you will, this with the ongoing challenges we see with people's attention spans ever shrinking. also, of course, the fact that

it's so easy now to live just in your own silo, whether it's entertainment, for news, whatever it might be, and not be exposed to other points of view. >> that's exactly right. i think of something like qanon, for example, which, in so many ways, it might not seem like it, but i think is very much an example of sort of what happens when entertainment as kind of a logic takes over. qanon is very much about there is a writer writing a show. there is the star of the show, often donald trump. when something happens that doesn't conform to the ideas of qanon, people will often write that off, well, it's just crisis actors. that's just a performance. you know, so that's one example. and i think, also, to live in a society that values entertainment the way we do, first of all, we expect distraction. distraction becomes not a bad thing but, in fact, a good thing. in some sense, the only good thing. that is what we expect of the world. i think, also, you know, in a

republic, you need to be active. you need to be not just an audience. you need to actually feel invested in the world. i think the logic of entertainment says that, no, all you do is watch. an audience either claps or boos, and that's basically it. those are the options available to it. to me, we have so many urgent, existential problems in this country. we need to focus on them. we need to see them clearly. i think when we see those problems as owing us entertainment, that's going to keep us from acting. that's going to keep us passive as an audience. >> the new article is online now for "the atlantic," megan garber. thank you so much. we really appreciate your coming on today. this is absolutely fascinating. and another example of what megan is talking about, asking a covid conspiracy theorist to investigate the pandemic. that's exactly what kevin

mccarthy did by naming one georgia congresswoman to a key committee. how the house speaker is defending that decision next on "morning joe." hello, world. or is it goodbye? you know, it seems like hope and trust are in short supply. [clap] now, as businesses we can blame and shame. or... [whistles] we can make a change. [clap] we can make work, work for our communities. create more equal opportunities. [clap] it's time for business to show its true worth. because it's not goodbye, world. it's hello, team earth. [clap] new projects means new project managers.

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marjorie taylor green, you put her on a new subcommittee to investigate the origins of covid. >> yes. >> she compared mask requirements to the type of abuse jews were subjected to during the holocaust. she called for fauci to be arrested and imprisoned. holoca. how's anyone to take that work seriously and find it credible? >> you look at all of it. >> you think these are legitimate questions? >> i think what the american public wants to see is an open dialogue in the process. this is a select committee and you will see the outcome. >> speaker kevin mccarthy when pressed yesterday on "face the

nation." he dodged questions about why he has not removed congressman george santos from congress. santos was awarded two committee assignments by kevin mccarthy. >> to be faito your viewers -- >> 22%. approval level of journalists is not very high. doesn't it further wear down credibility when you put someone under investigation as a representative -- >> swalwell? >> no. george santos. >> we should have that discussion. let's have that discussion. you want to bring up santos. talk about the institution itself. i agree that congress is broken. i think your viewers should understand what proxy voting was done. >> i'm asking you about george santos. you could put it to a vote. >> i would appreciate if you let

me answer. it is not one simple answer. congress is broken based on what transpired. the american public didn't come in to see us. people voted by proxy. bills didn't have to go through committee. what i'm trying to do is open the people's house so people are held accountable. as i had in the last week for the first time in seven years -- >> you could oust him. you don't think you could get the republicans answered? >> i wasn't finished answering the question. if every single new person in congress was elected what they have done is lending the voice to the american people. they can serve on committee. i'm trying to change the committees like the intel committee is different -- >> you won't answer the question? >> you don't get to question whether i answered it. >> i don't think you have said

the name george santos like once. i asked you a few times. proxy voting and other things. >> you started with congress is broken. i agree with you. >> no. >> nearly a month later americans say they focus on the wrong things. in a new poll 73% of adults say house republicans have not paid enough attention to the country's most pressing issues. 27% said they have had the right priorities. listening to that interview with kevin mccarthy it is painful. he is doing gymnastics there not to answer the question about members, jonathan lemire, of his republican party that he put on committees. george santos, a proven liar. i say this with empathy, who doesn't seem well. the extent of the lying and his creation of his own reality is

not someone who is fit for the office and the voters who put the vote to him probably feel pretty duped right now and kevin mccarthy can't even address the reality of george santos? he can't even say it's a problem. you know? we are looking into it. he can't do that? he has to avoid it like the plague. only to then maybe face questions about marjorie taylor greene a -- i mean, this is his swirl of lies that he sucked himself into as speaker of the house maybe. maybe he is the maybe speaker of the house at any moment those extremists, crazies on the far right could take away his job. >> that interview is revealing pointing to the limits of his

power. can't afford to lose george santos because he needs the vote and he is a reliable partner with kevin mccarthy. credit to margaret brennan for handling the attitude in that interview and empowered people like marjorie taylor greene. not just putting her on a covid committee even though she spouted conspiracy theories, she thought the september 11th attacks was an inside job. this is what the white house is banking on is that the republicans are going to be so focused on the hunter bidens of the world and anthony fauci and the republicans seem to want slashing entitlements which

americans don't want and polling suggest the gop is focusing on the wrong things. >> joining us is all in together lauren leader with new polling showing it is not just democratic voters more likely to support pro-choice candidates for office. the republicans, they will lose voters on this issue. >> yeah. the cnn polls are very much aligned with polls from all in together from last week showing on a range of issues voters including republican want leadership to compromise to get things done for the american people. they don't want hardcore party politics. i thought it was fascinating that more republicans, 48% of republican women said they would support pro-choice republican candidates. there's an overplaying of the hand that republicans push

things further than their own voters want them to go. on medicated abortion when governors are calling in threatening pharmacists around her state, republicans oppose further bans on medicated abortions. republicans have pushed on this very hardcore partisan agenda for years. only hold about 6,700 votes in this last midterm elections and not getting the message. i think they put themselves in a box and get in trouble heading into '24. >> you wrote for know your value about how to point back and the last point in the article is to elect more women. it seems the republican party could handle a little more women in it at high levels because this is an issue that needs to be -- clearly needs to be

explained to them. >> i think -- look. in every state where there have been votes on abortion rights both republicans and democrats have rejected additional abortion restrictions or voted to approve and republicans are going to need to catch up to the reality that even the own voters don't want them to go farther. we believe having more women in elected office is critical and got to be women committed to democracy, committed to the rule of law and we have spoken before about the ongoing challenges of people like marjorie taylor greene in office. they work together to get things done. >> yep. we'll be seeing you later on. we'll go live to tennessee following the release of the

body cam video showing the beat of tyre nichols by five ex-memphis police officers and the up date on the investigation from the shelby county district attorney and the parents of nichols and new footage from the assault on the husband of nancy pelosi. is the video evidence enough to tamp down the conspiracy theories? "morning joe" will be right back.

welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the third hour of "morning joe." a live look at new york city for you. it is 8:00 on the east coast. the reaction to the video showing the beating death of tyre nichols was as swift as expected. we'll have the latest out of memphis. and the actions by the police

department. we'll be joined by the district attorney for the memphis area as there are so many questions about this case and possible legislation being called for. also ahead, there was another disturbing video released. a first look at the attack on paul pelosi. that and the chilling jailhouse phone call from the man accused of attacking the husband of the speaker of the house. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, january 30th. jonathan and reverend al are with us. we'll begin with the latest from memphis following the release of video showing officers beating, kicking and pepper spraying tyre nichols. police released several angles. in the video 29-year-old tyre nichols is heard calling out for his mother. also very clear in the video he is completely unmatched, unarmed

and just being brutalized. now the memphis police department has announced it will perm innocently disband the s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. unit in response to this. they were members of that unit. the specialized team meant to specialize on violent crime in hotspot areas. in a statement the department said, quote, the officers assigned to the unit agree with the next step. the memphis city police chief promised a complete, nbc review of all of the department's units including s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n.. joining us now is the shelby county district attorney steve mulroy and covering memphis. with the s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. unit disbanded and a investigation

into what happened here does that call into question arrests made by cops in the last year or so? >> the unit was only formed in 2021. so we don't have currently any investigations regarding that but the potential cases might not be that great. >> tell us about charges against the five cops and how quickly it was investigators were able to determine that a crime was committed here or many crimes. >> right. you're correct about that. these charms were brought extraordinarily quickly through hard work on the part of the tennessee investigation of bureau and my newly created justice review unit designed to

be independent and objective looking back to see whether we had done wrongful convictions and in these officer involved fatality cases. less than weeks from the week is unprecedented. it was necessary in order to allow the video to be released after charges were brought so there's transparency and also we tamped down potentially violent response and the charges are the same for all five. second-degree murder which in tennessee requires that someone kill knowingly which is defined as acting in such a way with reasonable certainty that death will result. in addition all five officers charged with aggravated assault, aggravated kidnapping and official misconduct and oppression. >> looking at the circumstances on this videotape, you watch the whole thing play out all the way

until he is taken to the hospital which is a long while and he is just sitting there, boy, in brutal pain. with no care coming his way. but i'm just curious, the brutality, the depravity, the length of time that he was beaten and left on the street dying, the failure to de-escalate, the failure to administer care happened over 21 minutes. doesn't this speak to culture and do you believe there will be more officers and possibly their supervisors arrested in this? >> right. so i can't comment about that because we have an ongoing investigation and prosecution for that matter. i'll mention again that the charges brought against the five officers principally responsible for the beating at the scene

were charged extraordinarily quickly but nothing last week bringing indicts precludes other charges later on. this is a process. to the earl yes point about culture i think you are right. i think it is true. we can be nuanced. it can be true that most police officers are people of good faith and trying to be law abiding but at the same time can be a culture that's toxic and we see evidence of that in this case. i think it means that we need a broader examination of police reform both here in memphis and the country and that includes among other things independent oversight. we have a civilian board in memphis that's toothless. we need to change that. memphis was ready to bring in the justice department for an independent review and the trump attorney general scotched that.

i think we need to revisit that. i think you are right to say there's a problem of culture across the board. >> i have one more and have you looked into the time leading up to the beating? body cam video, audio, in the hours before. my point is especially leading up to it, is there a question this morning as to whether or not tyre nichols did anything wrong? is it possible there was no infraction at all? >> it is possible that there was no infraction at all. it's an ongoing investigation. unfortunately the earliest video we have isn't from the actual beginning of the first traffic stop but in the middle of the first instance. that's the kind of thing we are definitely looking at in the

investigation. >> i want to bring in maya wylie, president in fact leadership conference on civil and human rights. if you have a question for the district attorney, take it away. >> thank you. my first thought is it is incredibly important that they were charged so quickly. thank you for that. we know and i assume you would agree that they would still be culpable even if there was cause to stop tyre nichols in the first place since you are not allowed to beat someone to death no matter why you have stopped them. >> right. >> i'm curious if you think there needs to be changes to state law because as we know where police officers have not intervened to stop these constitutional violations or in other ways helped to cover them up whether they're sufficient

tools in the tool box to make sure they're held accountable, as well, including in terms of one police officer hoping that officers stomped tyre nichols. curious what you think of the state laws. >> thank you. i used to be a civil rights lawyer for doj before being a federal prosecutor and enjoyed the leadership conference. i think the point about whether there's an infraction or not, if he did commit an incident really doesn't take away from the fact that the force used was excessive and the officers should be responsible for his death. as to changes in law i support the george floyd act at the federal level. i think the reforms included there are worthy. i think something similar can and should be done at the state

level. i will say about inaction being the basis of liability, i think that's the case currently under state law and brought charges premised on that but particularly the official misconduct and repression charges. the statute talk about a failure to perform an act with a duty imposed by law and they were under a duty to prevent the other officers to take the actions that caused tyre nichols' death. there is a duty to intervene. >> district attorney for shelby county, tennessee, steve mulroy. thank you. joining us now we have the chair of the congressional black caucus, congressman steven

horsford of nevada. thank you for being on. i know that everybody is trying to get the arms around what happened here. there's talk about the culture of policing in memphis itself. not decision agreement about what happened on that videotape. that it was a murder. questions about if it wasn't just five officers but others failing to de-escalate. so many questions about policing. what do you think can be done in congress about a problem that seems to run so deep, is coursing through the veins of a police department? >> thank you for having me on. this is a very serious and important issue that we should agree bad policing in the united states should not exist. it does go to the root of the culture of policing but as you just noted in the prior segment

they disbanded this special unit in memphis while data shows that that unit and the department actually had three times as many stops for excessive force against black residents than they did against white residents. that is the root cause of what we have been talking about as a congressional black caucus and others. yes, it is time for congress to act. that's why i spoke to the nichols family yesterday. i made sure that they knew that we are standing with them on this important matter. we send our condolences for the loss of their son tyre but we are going to take action. it is about making sure that the president knows that this is an

issue to talk about at the state of the union. i have invited the nichols family as the guest of the congressional black caucus so they will be there to hear from the president and the members of the congress on how we'll take action to keep our community safe. >> mr. chairman, as you talk about the president's address, the state of the union and the black caucus' acts for meeting with them before that, civil rights leaders asking for that today. eight organizations that worked toward the george floyd bill and met with him want to see him before that. i was on the call with you and the family last night agreeing to come to the state of the union. how important is it now to get the congress, the house and the senate, to deal with police reform in a real way that can pass so that we do not end up

frustrating people again by getting almost there as we did with george floyd? the whole world said this was a moment of inflection and we can move forward and didn't happen. how do we and you and the caucus -- 58 members. how can you impacn this moment? >> thank you, reverend sharpton, thank you for having bring us together with the family for that important conversation and to make sure they know that we are standing with them. they said we want action, meaningful action. what are we going to do? first is reaching out to senator tom scott to initiate negotiations on principles around the george floyd justice and policing act. the president, the white house has reached out to indicate

their desire to meet on this important issue and we are working with outside groups to make sure that everyone knows now is the time for action. this is about people being safe. tyre was a son. he was a father. he had a purpose and a passion. he loved skateboarding aen the sunsets and photographing them. he was only 80 yards from his mother's house after leaving a sunset. he should be alive today. there is no action that condones what happened in memphis but it is not only what happens in memphis but what happens across this country virtually every single day. we'll work in a bipartisan way in his legacy and so many other lives that have been lost. it is time for action now.

>> chair of the congressional black caucus, congressman steven horsford, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. all right. earlier this month house republicans created a new select committee to investigate what they say is the weaponization of the federal government. the it can examine how any agency within the federal government has collected, analyzed and used information about americans. the panel appears to be the primary way to republicans plan to investigate the president and his son hunter. yesterday chuck todd challenged jim jordan about the lack of investigating former president trump and his administration. >> you want to talk about the weaponization of the justice department. you don't want to look at anything that happened in the

trump years. he subpoenaed information. secretly obtained reporters' phone records. he pressured -- investigated this election fraud. he tried to change the leadership at the justice department. >> chuck -- >> if you are concerned about the weaponization of the justice department in the biden years why not investigate the trump years? >> we'll look at what elon musk displayed is unbelievable. the idea that fbi paid twitter $3.4 million -- >> no. to comply with subpoenas. that's the federal law. that's a law congress passed. >> okay for the fbi to be meeting every week and suppressing information which we know is true? that's all right?

probably information -- >> this is a private organization that made the decision. keep talking about this raid on donald trump. the amount of time -- there was nine months between the initial action to request documents before they turned it of to the justice department. the subpoena issued 60 days before they actually executed the subpoena. and more tonightly the only time the public found out is because donald trump told the public about it. you paint it as the fbi did this within hours but it was a year and a half of donald trump not complying with any of the requests from national archives. a year and a half. this is not some sort of proof that they have weaponized and playing politics. >> raided trump's home and not biden's home. >> didn't defy a subpoena. he defied a subpoena. he had 60 days to comply before they executed a search warrant.

>> documents locked in a room. president biden has documents in the garage and a think tank funded by the chinese. president trump was president. >> you talk about the chinese and hunter biden. are you worried about the chinese and donald trump? are you worried about that? >> no. i'm not. >> it is amazing to watch jim jordan continue to lie for donald trump. it is just engrained in his being. no matter how much he tries to distract i guess by waving his arms that was the most pitiful display of hypocrisy and the twitter files are unbelievable? he is right! there's nothing there. my god. he still calls it a raid. he still is defending trump on the documents.

why? why? >> if i had the answer to that question i wouldn't be sitting here. the reality is exactly as you said. we have become a post-fact political society at this moment. this is completely devoid of a sitting member of congress doing anything that is focused on law enforcement. that's the irony. the reality is and everyone has said it. there's no indication of a crime being committed by hunter biden. put aside joe biden. if they want to do something legitimate they could look at and talk about whether they should tighten the legal requirements of family members and talk about jared kushner and ivanka trump getting trademarks from china. if we are concerned about china

there's conversations that would be legitimate. the comment about being honest about facts and the facts are clear and chuck todd nailed it. >> he did. >> could be the chance that if they wanted to talk about what some suggested is an overclassification problem with the federal government and doesn't seem to interest the republican party. this is certainly congressman jordan laid it out plainly. it is about scoring political points. dragging hunter biden through the mud to make that happen. kudos to chuck todd for that interview over the weekend. it will be ugly fight and hearings on the hill as republicans try to deflect the questions around former president trump. still likely favorite to be their next nominee.

>> maya, thank you for being on this morning. appreciate it. also coming up on "morning joe," an update on the attack on paul pelosi following the release of body cam and surveillance video. the man accused of the attack had a disturbing response to the release saying he wished he could have done before. an awkward appearance with his leadership team, former president trump campaigning for the white house. we'll have more own those low-key events. that's ahead on "morning joe." ♪limu emu & doug♪ hey, man. nice pace! clearly, you're a safe driver. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance... ...so you only pay for what you need!

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we got a lot of news to get to. on friday san francisco police released clips from last

october's vicious assault on paul pelosi husband of nancy pelosi. it includes video showing the suspect allegedly breaking into the home in the middle of the night. it also includes police body cam video at the house and depape attacking pelosi with a hammer. we warn you. the video is disturbing. >> hi. >> how are you doing? >> how are you? >> what's going on, man? >> everything is good. >> hi. >> drop the hammer. >> nope. >> hey. hey hey hey. >> not getting an answer on -- >> [ bleep ]. >> send backup code 3.

>> meanwhile the man charged with attacking paul pelosi is speaking out in a bizarre jailhouse phone call. he contacted a local tv station in the bay area essentially confessing to the crime and apologizing for not doing more damage. >> i want to apologize to everyone. i messed up. what i did was really bad. i'm so sorry i didn't get more of them. it's my own fault. no one is to blame. i should have come more prepared. >> he is charged with attempted murder, false imprisonment and threatening a public official for the attack on the 82-year-old pelosi. he pleaded not guilty. if that attack was heinous enough it took no time at all for members of the far right to

elevate conspiracy theories about the assault. what do they have to say for themselves now. we'll name names when "morning joe" comes right back. two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good! next on behind the series... that performance was legendary. they just piled it on. roast beef, ham, oven roasted turkey. all on the subway club. three peat - that's great. three meat - that's epic. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

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welcome back. we have been talking about the brutal assault on paul pelosi, the husband of nancy pelosi. the release of the police body cam is putting a focus on some far right republicans, activists and media outlets began to spread groundless claims about the attack, almost immediately after it happened. nearly all of them incorrect. many homophobic trying to cast doubt on what happened. former republican congressman adam kinsinger compiled this list calling out officials, candidates and people who want to be prominent who made fun of

pelosi or helped spread misinformation about the attack in the days after. want to read this list. just keep in mind this is the republican party. high level names being behaving in a simply disgraceful way. texas senator ted cruz who amplified that all the facts disclosed. greene suggested that pelosi knew the attacker. higgins said the attack was male prostitution. north carolina lieutenant governor mark robinson who raised doubts about the atails of the attack. one suggested the attack might have been staged. minnesota state house candidate royce white claiming the attack involved an extramarital gay

affair. arizona state senator wendy rogers suggests the attack might have been staged. florida state representative suggested that the pelosis are hiding vital information. new york congresswoman tenny with amplified a theory about an extramarital gay affair. others, glenn beck raising doubt. a comment taylor claimed a gay affair. an ivy leaguer casting a dark, dark light on the institution. so embarrassing. details were fabricated. one raised doubts about the details of the attack. fox news host and media

personality raised doubts that the facts were being disclosed. elon musk with a theory about male prostitution. one repeated a false report that the attacker was in his underwear. michael savage raised doubts. and former president trump all y'all's leader because you can't quit him suggested the attack was staged. soulless, depraved, unfit. just not serious. really damaging to the democracy. let's bring in the owner of the bull work, charlie sykes. we get used to the depraved

behavior. sexism, racism. he brought them to the table to the point that people are almost immune to it. these are the republican leaders right now. when you see that video of paul pelosi and think about what they did tweeting away losers trying to be relevant but destroying the fabric of the society in the process. >> where does paul pelosi go to get the apology? how many said i'm sorry, i was wrong about this? how many reach out to the family? >> one. one, chaly. elon musk. >> sort of. sort of apology nonapology. i'm glad you are highlighting this doubling back because at some point there needs to be

accountability. to the point, we can't get numbed about this. here you had a vicious attack and see the loop of conspiracy theories, disinformation. the tweets put out that mocked this attack. when in fact what you saw was exactly as it was described in the earlier police report. i think it is a good illustration of the way in which this vicious misinformation has become part of the norm at least on the right. and without any conscience whatsoever. there's no hesitancy these days to mock a vicious and could have been a fatal attack on an 82-year-old man. the lack of humanity and decency, the lack of concern for the truth on display there.

i hope people look at the graphic. all of the people who put out the misinformation and who have yet to apologize or to correct it. >> no. >> it is really a powerful thing and glad you read that. we need to know who the people are and what they are capable of doing and the lack of remorse afterward. >> if you look at the names and faces these are a mixture of people in power. i don't know if we can put the graphic up. people who are trying to get power. trying to be relevant again and knocked out of the business or whatever. doesn't matter. when you jump to make fun of or push lies about an 82-year-old man smashed over the head you have lost it. it is sick. this is not what we want from our leaders.

there are republican americans who voted in the midterms and said i don't really like insurrections, insurrectionists, people who spread lies. i don't like people who have sold their soul to donald trump or to a desperate need to get attention on the back of someone who's been brutalized. this is sick behavior and pervaded the republican party. >> right. cruelty is part of the culture and a reminder that brutality is an ideology and the celebration of violence in which a vicious attack like this results in lies and the wink-wink. isn't this cool? the attacker says i'm sorry i didn't get more. we have created an ugly political cultural moment where violence is celebrated.

you have the former president giving speeches that brutality is the point. we wonder how it manifests in society. you have the attack that's evil enough but the response and the continuing response is it own tell about how sick our political culture has become. >> not only do we not get apologies over the weekend. some doubled down. release on friday raising questions with what the video showed and trying to make insinuations. donald trump jr. among those doing that. but to charlie's point seems like another moment where the normalization of political violence that this is after january 6, instances of violent rhetoric picked up.

we have seen this terrible incidence where violence is threatened and conspiracies take center stage and now in positions of power. >> that is probably the most frightening to see those that came to notoriety giving, selling, promoting conspiracy theories far, far away from the truth. not in positions of real power in government. to see people in positions of power fabricate things about mr. pelosi, a victim, making the erroneous statements about him. when the tape comes out to show what happens they won't recount. the normalization that sykes is talking about is frightening. anyone can be subjected to this

at any time and won't matter. people in this country can be targeted and in many ways harmed if not worse. it will be all right. we are going to the next story. two weeks ago we saw asians killed in california. a week later police brutality in memphis. what's next like watching the countdown to the super bowl rather than an erosion in this country in terms of morals. >> all right. the video is horrific. just as we go to break another look at the graphic of all the people who jumped to make fun of an 82-year-old man having his head bashed in. take it in. take it in. these names, these names put out

depraved disinformation brought to you probably by the example set by donald trump. you see his name on the list. why does it matter? because donald trump hit the campaign trail this weekend. this list should show you that we should never underestimate trump's impact. what he has done to this country and the democracy and the members of congress. exemplifying the weaknesses and depravity in some cases and what he can still do. coming up on "morning joe," donald trump's campaign limping into its beginning phases. we'll have the very latest when we come back. you can't always prevent what's going on outside... that's why qulipta® helps what's going on inside. qulipta® gets right to work. in a 3-month study, qulipta® significantly reduced monthly migraine days

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with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to 60% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. i've said over and over again that he can't win a general election and that's not speculation. that's based upon the polling

that i was privy to pre the 2020 election and what we saw happen in the 2020 election. it is worse since then. add to it what you saw happen in 2022. election deniers losing across the country. bad candidates dragging the pennsylvania ticket down in a historic way. we can go through entire list. loser, loser, loser. i think republicans are recognizing that. >> one of the reasons he became the republican of the reasons h the republican nominee in 2016 is because he won the first primary state, your state of new hampshire. could he do that again? >> he could. i don't think he will. obviously he started his campaign after the election in 2022. that obviously had a lot of stumbling blocks that he was trying to overcome. he comes to new hampshire and gives a very mundane speech.

he stuck to the talking points. he's not really bringing that fire, that energy that i think a lot of folks saw in 2016. i think it was disappointing to some folks. >> it's just a visual, but people standing on stage with him look a little uncomfortable. just a snapshot. chris sununu with that assessment of trump's weekend stop in his state where trump addressed an annual state party meeting at a high school auditorium. in south carolina, he introduced his state leadership team before speaking. his speeches in both states largely mirrored each other and focused on his usual grievances. never underestimate donald trump. having said that, something did

seem really different over the weekend. >> i think what's different this time is he's not a new politician on the scene who is the ultimate change agent. what worked for him in 2016 in a republican party and the general election is that he was the change agent. change agents tend to be successful in presidential elections. he's now a six-year, seven-year incumbent. he's been on the scene that long. his policy program isn't new. his schtick isn't new. everything he did in the 2016 and now the 2020 campaign has been warmed over. we forget, but this is a big deal. he won in 2016. republicans looked at that and said i may not like everything he says or does, but if he can win we've got to capitalize on that. after 2018, 2020 and 2022

there's now some disenchantment with trump. however, as you mention, he is the front runner, because a good third of the republican base is with him or at least willing to support him. if we have a crowded primary, he can get through with a plurality. coming up, the former chief of seattle's police carmen best. . in three seconds, fifteen couples will share a perfect moment. is that? oh wow! but we got to sell our houses! well, almost perfect. my place is too small; your place is too far. selling them means repairs, listings, cleanings. what's the market even like? this could take like... forever! or... more like days. skip the hassles and sell with confidence to opendoor. done. yes! -oh yes. request a cash offer at opendoor.com

welcome back. the number of female led startups has increased significantly over the past two years. they are still a small fraction compared to the number of companies created by men. new research reveals even more evidence that this reality exacerbates gender inequity in american workplaces. here to talk more about this is

maggie mcgrath, ceo of all in together, lauren leader. maggie, the study examined half a million decisions by 8 million job seekers. what did it reveal? >> it revealed that women are in this vicious cycle of underrepresentation. when a startup is male dominated, they are less likely to want to work at that startup. the study looked at perspective job candidates. when a company had an existing workforce that was 15% or less female, women were 30% less likely to even want to apply there. as the workforce became more gender balanced, women were more likely to want to work there. >> lauren? >> how do male candidates respond? it was so interesting that the study shows women are very

predisposed to respond to companies that were more male dominated. do men do the same thing? >> the effect was not as present, if at all, for men. the study found men were equally likely to apply for a job whether the workforce was male dominated, female dominated or gender balanced. what the lead study posited is we're used to seeing male dominated startups. when you have a man applying for a position at a startup, you're seeing less of the status quo so you're less likely to question that. >> it seems like a never ending vicious cycle of male dominated lack of diversity in these companies. what's the big take-away from this study? >> my first message is if you are a brother-brother founding

them and you're looking to make your first hire, all is not lost. you need to be thinking about diversity from day one. you can't wait until you're 20 employees in and you're just starting to think about an hr department. i've seen so many studies that say this isn't just the right thing to do, it's good for business. there are higher revenues, return on equity and innovation. >> lower risk. >> we could spend a whole segment talking about the benefits. for women who are applying for these jobs, i think the message is ask questions, and men too. if you see a male dominated workforce, ask, what is your plan for diversifying this workforce? >> maggie, we're going to be talking a lot more about the

gender gap. forbes bringing together generations of women from the 30 under 30 and 50 under 50 list. we have hillary clinton, malala, gloria steinham, catherine o'hara and many more. we're also going to be hearing from female founders who have busted through those gender barriers and who have overcome the challenges we just spoke about. tell us about a few. >> we have dena from the 30 under 30 list, health care founder working to make fertility accessible to everyone. we have aurora james, the designer of the tax the rich dress at the met gala. she's the founder of a pledge that retailers can take to devote more shelf space to

black-owned businesses. >> more news on this summit later this week. thank you. we'll see you a little later. to learn more about the 30/50 summit in abu dhabi. go to forbes.com. it's five weeks away and it's going to be absolutely remarkable. it is the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe" now on this monday, january 30th. we're going to go live to memphis for the latest in the investigation into tyre nichols' death and the reaction from the community. now that the video is out for everyone to see, tyre nichols' mother and stepfather will join us later this hour. plus, new polling on the current and former president. how voters are feeling about joe biden as he moves into the second half of his term. donald trump's first weekend on the campaign trail a little bit

different than his two previous presidential bids, a little less loud, a little less audience, a little less of everything. we'll explain why. it's been three months since paul pelosi was attacked inside his home, and newly released video is giving us a better idea of the disturbing events of that night. san francisco police released clips from last october's vicious assault on paul pelosi, the husband of the speaker of the house nancy pelosi. it includes surveillance video from capitol police showing the suspect david depape breaking into the home in the middle of the night. it also includes police body cam video at the house and depape attacking pelosi with a hammer. we warn you, this video is extremely disturbing. >> hi. how you doing? >> how are you? >> what's going on, man?

>> everything's good. >> hi. >> drop the hammer. >> um, nope. >> hey, hey, hey. >> what is going on right now? [ bleep ]. >> send backup, code 3. >> meanwhile depape is speaking out in a bizarre jailhouse phone call. he contacted a local tv station in the bay area confessing to the crime and apologizing for not doing more damage. >> i want to apologize to everyone. i messed up. what i did was really bad. i'm so sorry i didn't get more of them. it's my own fault. no one else is to blame. i should have come better prepared.

>> a reminder, this man was inspired by trump and extremist points of view. he's charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, elder abuse for the attack on the 82-year-old pelosi in his own home. he has pleaded not guilty. the release of the body cam video is putting a sharper focus on how some far-right republicans -- make no mistake, these are not just fringe. these are people in power right now serving on congress and on committee. activists and media outlets began spreading groundless claims about the attack on paul pelosi almost immediately after it happened, nearly all of them sinister, all of them homophobic. adam kinzinger tweeted out this list compiled by the seattle

times calling out 20 elected officials, candidates and semi-prominent figures who made fun of paul pelosi or helped spread misinformation about the attack. some of these people are serving right now in positions of power. there's ted cruz, members of congress, of course donald trump. you have to just take a moment and do some math here. if any of these people, if any of the people on this list -- and i'll speak for myself, jonathan lemire. if any of these people had something bad happen to them, something terrifying, i would be praying for them and i would be praying for their family. i can speak for joe absolutely. but even more relevant, nancy pelosi would be praying for any one of these people if something terrifying happened to them

without hesitation. in fact, she showed that when steve scalise was shot. the first thing she did was openly pray for his family and urge others to do the same. i don't understand what the urge was for these people to act in such a barbaric way, such a depraved way, rushing to twitter to quickly tweet something disgusting or defamatory or homophobic to try and cast a dark shadow on paul pelosi somehow being responsible here. like, they wanted to hurry up to get the cruelty to trend, and it did. again, reminding you some of these people are powerful sitting members of the senate. who are you? because you are not who we want.

jonathan lemire your thoughts? >> you're certainly right. other democrats condemn what happened and prayed for his recovery. that's not what we got from those folks on that list they have been showing all morning. these were characters who seemed to revel in the misfortune, who pointed to alleged gay relationships, who became a closing argument for some of these candidates on the campaign trail. it was just before the midterms. even now, reverend sharpton, we're not seeing much in the way of apologies or clarity. my question is why? why do they revel in an 82-year-old man's suffering, who nearly died, who was in critical condition for days? is there no end to just wanting to own the libs at the expense of being a decent human being?

>> i must first say that maybe some of them are really that inhumane in how they deal with people not only in politics but generally. i don't know how you bring yourself to behave that way unless you have some inherent lack of values that would teach you how to deal in a humane way. and the others of them are playing to a crowd that they have incited and they have gained politically from, that they are trying to act like we don't back down, we don't apologize and we don't care what happens to the libs. they've created a crowd that has become in many ways the ones that have become captives and hostages of their own mouth. i think that it is sick and sad that we see this. but i think that is what has

happened. you've seen very few of them escape from the hostage taking by the extremists on the right. that's why they can't even say something decent about an 82-year-old man that on film now that we see accosted and assaulted like that, even if his wife has denounced something when something happened as in the case of congressman scalise. >> we turn from violence pervading our politics to the latest out of memphis, where the police department is under the microscope following friday's release of video showing officers beating, hitting, kicking and pepper spraying tyre nichols. memphis police put out several angles totaling more than an hour of footage in the video. tyre nichols can be heard calling for his mother. now the memphis police department has announced it will

permanently disband the scorpion unit in response. all five of the officers charged with nichols' death were members of that unit. the memphis police chief promised to complete an independent review of all of the department's units, including scorpion. joining us from outside police headquarters in memphis, nbc news correspondent ellison barber. >> reporter: the police department, they say they came to this position to permanently deactivate the so-called scorpion unit after the police chief cj davis met with other officers in that unit who were not involved in the attack on tyre nichols. they said looking at the facts of this case, taking into account the concerns, the demands of tyre nichols' family as well as members of the community, that disbanding this unit was the best decision for

everyon moving forward. this unit was formed less than two years ago. when it was initially formed, the department said it was going to be a specialized unit that focused on trying to combat car thefts and gang related activity in hot spot areas where they were receiving high volumes of 911 calls and concerns. we've seen specialized units like this in a lot of other cities, and they tend to be highly controversial. you think of the anti-crime units in the nypd that were involved heavily in stop and frisk policies that targeted disproportionately black and brown members of new york city. you look at things like the red dogs in atlanta, similar situation there. this sort of unit, critics say that what makes them specialized is really that they are able to go into communities, typically black and brown communities, and act with impunity, that they basically have a longer leash

than other officers and they can go into these communities under the guise of fighting crime and stop people for small, minor infractions in order to try and look for something bigger. critics say that leads to harassment and it can be entrapment and it can lead to situations like this. here in memphis, there is a bit of relief, if you will, among people in this community that these particular officers were arrested and charged so quickly. the fact that this scorpion unit is being disbanded is welcome news. for most people here, people living in these communities where this unit operated, there is still a lot of frustration and there's also a lot of fear. listen. >> i feel it in my chest. like, i feel the pain that the man went through. i just kind of want to stay in my house just with my baby. we have to worry about the

police every time we go out. they always are pulling us over and doing something to us. i'm nervous and i'm the same. i'm just going to stay the same until i see something different. i just want to see something different. >> reporter: you hear her saying she still feels like she wants to stay inside her house because she is afraid. she was speaking with our colleague antonia hilton yesterday afternoon. i spoke to another man yesterday evening who was from memphis. he feels like what's happening right now is we're targeting cracks in the house when really the issue is the foundation. you can repair cracks, but if the structure itself isn't fixed, we're going to see situations like this repeating itself. >> thank you so much for that insightful report. let's bring in the former police

chief from seattle washington, carmen best. she's the author of "black & blue." we have the d.a. from the area. he said there could be more arrests. there were other cops present, not deescalating and others who came to the scene. i know that you believe and many of us believe there are many good police officers out there and we shouldn't paint all officers with the same brush. but this is a lot of cops that failed to deescalate a murder. >> mika, you're absolutely right about that. first, i do believe there are a lot of good officers out there, over 800,000 officers across the country and the vast majority do well.

but we have to acknowledge there are some problems across policing. there are policies in place where officers have a duty to report when there's a failure to act appropriately. officers have a duty to intervene. they have a duty to provide care when someone is injured in their custody. there was a big fail in all these areas. what it says to me is that we definitely have in some quarters a significant culture to address, because the policies are there, the training is there. yet we have people who fail to comply. this is very tragic. i commend chief cj davis for acting swiftly.

>> i join you in commending police chief davis for operating quickly. but isn't this the reason why many of us are saying you need change like the george floyd justice in policing act where qualified immunities are off the table. if you have officers that won't listen to the training and won't listen to what the rules are, they need to know they can be exposed civilly and criminally, that this was not about whether they agree with the rules you may set down, but that they can have some serious repercussions if they go across the line as we saw in this video not only from the five that did the abusive acts, but for those that showed up and didn't try to stop it, didn't even try to tell an honest report of what they saw.

>> yeah, i agree. i think there should be national standards, absolutely. i don't think your geography whether your live to determine the level of police service that you get. you should know no matter where you are in the country, chokeholds aren't applicable, that no-knock warrants aren't going to happen. that said, when you look at how heinous the acts were, it wasn't just an excess of force. it was so far beyond that in a very gut wrenching sickening kind of way. it makes you wonder what else may have been going on there. having national standards will definitely help to hold people accountable to their actions while they're in the field. >> carmen best, thank you so much for being on this morning. we turn to politics now and

former president trump on the campaign trail in two key states over the weekend. while he remains the gop front runner, a growing number of republicans say it is time for a change. nbc news senior washington correspondent hallie jackson has the latest. >> reporter: former president trump bam home this morning after his first big campaign swing to new hampshire and south carolina, dismissing critics who say his 2024 push is off to a slow and sputtering start. >> they said he's not doing rallies, he's not campaigning, maybe he's lost that step. i'm more angry and more committed now than i ever was. >> reporter: mr. trump again pushing election fraud lies and launching a new attack against florida republican governor ron desantis. >> i got him elected. ron would not have been governor if it wasn't for me, and that's

okay. >> reporter: a new poll shows desantis with a 12-point lead over the former president. he's widely speculated to be planning a presidential run according to the "washington post," citing two republicans with knowledge of the conversation. nbc news has not confirmed that reporting. some republicans arguing the party needs someone other than mr. trump at the top of the ticket, pointing to underwhelming midterms for the gop. >> we could go through the entire list, loser, loser, loser, loser. >> reporter: still mr. trump remains the gop front runner leading a crowded field of possible challengers like mike pence, nikki haley and mike

pompeo. >> there are many talented people for years to come, but there is only one trump. >> that is true. in a moment we're going to go live to nbc's vaughn hillyard covering trump's campaign event in south carolina. first, steve kornacki is at the big board with a look at new polling from nbc news. take us through some of the numbers you found. >> interesting first look at the political climate in our nbc poll of 2023 since the republican takeover of congress. i think you see the same basic dynamic that existed in the midterm election still exists even as republicans have taken over congress. here's joe biden's approval rating of 45%. right before the election in 2022, that's where we had

biden's approval rating and democrats having better numbers than people were suggesting. economic anxiety among voters remains high. pessimism, two-thirds of voters think economically they're falling behind. here's a whole set of attributes we asked folks about here about the president, about joe biden, whether they would rate him positively or negatively. what jumps out is they do find him generally easy going and likable. you see knowledgeable and experienced is about dead even. when you get down to honest and trustworthy, he's underwater. competent and effective, he's underwater. questions about his mental and physical health, more than 50% rate him negatively there. these are numbers we saw out throughout 2022, low approval

ratings, a lot of economic pessimism. yet democrats gained a seat in the senate and came awfully close to keeping the house. why? because the other element of 2022 also still exists here. biden is unpopular and democrats are unpopular, but republicans are even more unpopular and donald trump is even more unpopular than joe biden. and that's the ultimate dynamic that we saw. you just played that clip there of chris christie talking about those candidates who would align themselves closely to his 2020 claims in the 2022 election. that was how poorly they did. that dynamic still persists. among republicans, do you consider yourself more of a trump supporter or a republican party supporter? it's about 2-1 saying republican

party. a hard core one-third say donald trump is where their loyalty is. then do you consider yourself a supporter of the maga movement? two-thirds of republicans say yes. i think it's the big question for 2023. joe biden's numbers aren't getting any better. the question in 2023 is donald trump going to be able to solidify his hold with a republican party and set the table for a rematch in 2024 with potentially these dynamics refining a race. >> so the question is, who's less unpopular. wow. we turn to vaughn hillyard in ft. mill, south carolina. what stood out to you at trump's weekend event there? >> reporter: i think to steve's exact point there is that donald trump over this weekend particularly referred to former south carolina governor nikki haley and said he received a

phone call from her recently in which she said she's considering running for president, challenging him. donald trump said he urged her to run, because the thinking is, the more republicans get into the race, the more fractured it becomes. that is why this weekend was significant. it was his first time on the campaign trail since announcing his run back in early november of last year. when you look at his stop in new hampshire, he stood alongside the outgoing gop chair. then here in south carolina, he stood alongside the governor henry mcmaster and also the likes of the senior senator from here lindsey graham and three of the six republican congressmen from the state of south carolina. he's trying to lay a foundation before any of these other candidates get in the race.

i want to let you hear from a couple voters who i posed the question to about the likes of tim scott and nikki haley. if there is a state where donald trump could lose support because of other home state candidates, this would be the place. take a listen. you like desantis? >> i don't dislike him. i would like to see a trump/desantis ticket. >> why not tim scott or nikki haley? >> we love them, but he has proven to be the best president that we've ever had besides ronald reagan. he has the philosophy of ronald reagan, so why go with anyone else? tim scott would be a great vice president, however. >> what would be your message to nikki haley right now? >> work hard and campaign well. that's all i'm commenting. >> 2024 may not be her year, though? >> no. i think she needs to wait

another four years. >> it would be the donald. >> there's others considering even tim scott and nikki haley. >> i like tim scott, but i would vote for donald over tim. >> what about nikki haley? >> she wouldn't be as high as tim. i've met tim scott before. i like him. nikki haley, i don't think she's prepared for that level of position. >> desantis? >> that's an interesting question that it would be hard to vote against. what would be ideal is donald/desantis ticket. that would be fantastic. >> reporter: south carolina picks presidents. they picked him in 2016 and they picked joe biden in 2020. he hopes they pick him again here about a year from now in 2024. six months from now we should anticipate the first republican presidential primary debates. i am told they're looking at

milwaukee, which will also be the site of the republican national convention just one year later. for now, donald trump lady gaga his initial groundwork for what could be a competitive republican primary race. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you so much for that report. coming up, the parents of tyre nichols have vowed to find justice for their son following the release of brutal police body cam video showing some of his final moments. they join us straight ahead on morning show. ow ustomizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities. while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market.

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. 30 past the hour. there were protests in major cities across the country over the weekend after memphis officials released video of the deadly police beating of tyre nichols. footage of the traffic stop, or so they call it, was made public on friday. the five officers involved have all been fired and indicted on

several charges, including second degree murder. joining us now tyre nichols' parents rowvaughn and rodney wells. also with us is the family's attorney ben crump. we call this a traffic stop, although a number of experts on our show this morning have said they're not sure exactly what tyre did to have police stopping him. i just want to clarify that. rowvaughn, as tyre's mom, i'm just curious, i'm feeling for you and wondering how you are coping and how you are getting through each hour of each day since this happened. >> well, it's been very difficult. i'm still trying to process all of this. i guess basically what keeps me

going is the fact that i always felt like my son was sent here on an assignment and he's completed that assignment. so that's what keeps me going day in and day out. i also feel as though my son's heart was that of a modern day messiah, because that's the only thing that keeps me going right now. why else would he have been sacrificed for the greater good? >> he was your baby. how is his son? and is the community supporting you in a way that you need? >> his son is doing the best.

he hasn't comprehended at all by him being 4 years old. so he really don't know what's going on. we'll have to deal with that as he gets older. to answer your question, the community is surrounding me in a beautiful way, our family. >> rodney, i'm curious how you are coping, how you think rowvaughn is coping and what your message is to the memphis community and the country. >> i'm hanging in there. i have to stay strong for the family. my wife is doing a remarkable job under the circumstances. it's been very, very difficult for the whole family. any time you lose a loved one so suddenly and so tragically, it's very, very difficult to deal with.

as far as the community, as my wife also stated, we couldn't ask for anything more. it's been a blessing the way everybody has been protesting peacefully, especially here in memphis. so we're very proud of the city of memphis and the support that we have received. >> attorney ben crump, rowvaughn was talking about tyre's mission, his purpose in this world. he certainly, in what has happened to him, exposed something here, something much, much bigger than anyone could have ever imagined. i wonder if you could speak to the long road to restoring trust in a community that feels scared of its police department. when you look at this video, you see these five officers, you know there were other officers

standing around. you know there was this delayed response to even give him care. there was this failure to pull back on the violence and failure to administer care. i don't even know where to begin. while the community is listening to rowvaughn's call for peace, it is a very difficult position this community is in when they feel like they cannot trust their cops. >> you're absolutely right, mika. this video is appalling. it underscores what people like reverend al and so many of our civil rights leaders have been saying for decades, that there is a culture that exists within police departments, not just in memphis, but across america, where they engage in excessive use of force on communities black and brown. it's not the race of the police

officer that is the determining factor of whether they engage in this excessive use of force, but it is the race of the citizen, the black and brown citizens. mika, we don't see videos of white citizens being engaged with this type of excessive force. so we have to make rowvaughn's prayer come true. we have to have some greater good come out of this tragic video where these police officers savagely beat and killed her son. that's why we ask president biden when we were on the call with him. he has to use this as an opportunity to marshal the united states senators and also

need to reach out to the house of representatives and put the george floyd for justice in policing back on the table. because if not, how many more videos will we see? >> rowvaughn, reverend sharpton. one of the things that has impressed me with you in particular is every time you've spoken and every time i've talked to you and your husband rodney, you've also stressed how you want to make sure this does not happen to anyone else. i want you to speak to why that is so important to you. obviously as a minister, you make me smile every time you say how god used your son and i

believe that. you seem to really want your son to stand for just more than his case, but that it not be something that it leads to something that prevents this from continuing to happen. there was a kid that would come home and eat dinner. this was an exemplary young man. there are all kinds of people around this country that need to understand the kind of person he was. >> well, my son was a beautiful soul. he was a good boy. the thing that bothers me the most is so many children are being brutalized and killed by the police. as i said before, i feel like my son was sacrificed for the

greater good. hopefully we can help another kid and another family not go through something like this. my son will always be remembered and i will continue to fight until justice is served for him. >> let's not let her down. rowvaughn and rodney wells, thank you both. attorney ben crump, thank you very much as well for being on the show this morning. we'll be right back with much more. we'll be right back with much more ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪things are getting clearer♪ ♪i feel free to bare my skin♪ ♪yeah, that's all me♪ ♪nothing and me go hand in hand♪ ♪nothing on my skin♪ ♪that's my new plan♪

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42 past the hour. a live look at the capitol. president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy will sit down for their first one-on-one meeting this wednesday. they will discuss the debt ceiling, but reiterated the white house position that raising the debt ceiling is not a negotiation, but rather an obligation. let's bring in sa heel ka poor live on capitol hill. you've been digging into the 2011 debt ceiling crisis to see how actions taken then may be

influencing biden's decision making now. what did you find out? >> reporter: that's right. there's a moment in 2011 that is so crucial to understanding president biden's red line today on the debt limit. i talked to a former obama white house official who recounted an oval office meeting in 2011. vice president biden and president obama are sitting in the chairs by the fireplace. they're mystified and stunned by what had happened. they negotiated with house republicans on the debt limit. negotiations did not go well. it brought the u.s. within days of economic calamity. they narrowly averted the cliff. it could have been disastrous for the u.s. and global economy if they didn't find a way in the final moments. they all came to the conclusion they had made a big mistake. they thought they were doing the right thing in holding negotiations. it had taken a toll on the

economy even though they averted the worst of it. fast forward to present day, 12 years later. joe biden is the president and facing down a new republican controlled house that is similarly demanding spending cuts as a price for raising the debt limit. he is executing on the lesson they learned in that oval office meeting, which is no negotiations on the debt limit. they'll negotiate on the budget, but not with the threat of default on the table. let's play what speaker mccarthy said yesterday on cbs. >> if he's changed his mind from his whole time in the senate and vice president before, he literally led the talks in 2011 and he praised those talks. this is what he's always done in the past. >> reporter: mccarthy is right that president biden has changed his mind from 2011. that's the crucial point. the two parties see that moment in 2011 very differently. republicans look back and see a glorious showdown where they stared down a democratic

president and force 2 trillion in spending cuts. democrats look at it as a disaster that torched the economy. asking why it's been 12 years since democrats stopped paying ransom for republicans not triggering an economic crisis is a self-defeating question. he says that the 2011 negotiations were in good faith, but there was recklessness on the part of republicans. he says that is why the administration didn't negotiate in 2018 or after. after that 2011 experience, the obama white house drew the same exact red line with the republican controlled house, saying no negotiations on the debt limit. house republicans ultimately relented and lifted the debt ceiling or extended four more times, twice in 2013, once in 2014 and once in 2015 without the threat of default on the table. that brings us to this moment

this week where president biden is going to meet with speaker mccarthy on wednesday. a white house spokesperson tells our colleague monica alba that the president will ask what the speaker's plan is and point out that the economic security of all americans cannot be held hostage to force unpopular cuts on working families. it looks like president biden is sticking by this red line for now. >> thank you very much for your reporting. coming up, the political scandal of the 20th century from a different angle. the story of watergate whistleblower martha mitchell. we'll be joins by two of the women behind an oscar nominated documentary about her next on "morning joe." d documentary about her next on "morning joe."

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. it wasn't that the ppt didn't like women, he didn't like loud women.

>> she was the first to say nixon should resign. >> she knew what was going on. he was negligent in being president. >> martha mentioned that? >> she's gone to "the new york times." >> she wanted to project john, but i don't think she knew about who john really was. >> all of a sudden, these rumors start flying out of the white house. >> i think she was scared all the time something else might happen to her. >> i'll tell them all. you know what they'll probably do? they'll probably end up killing me. >> was she a crazy lady? >> i don't think so. i think she was visionary. part of the trailer from the netflix documentary "the martha mitchell effect" which takes a look at watergate whistle-blower martha mitchell, the wife of

attorney general john mitchell in 1972 and was gaslighted by the nixon administration in an effort to keep her quiet. the oscar nominated documentary offers a compelling and unique look at the watergate scandal through the lens of martha who fearlessly spoke out to reporters about the administration's dirty tricks. joining us now is the film's director ann al very gay and co-director debra mcclutchy. good to have you both. tell us about the wife of president nixon's closest confidant. ann, i'll start with you. >> well, there's so much to say about martha mitchell. she was the wife of john mitchell who was the attorney general under nixon and she was the sort of outlier in washington. she didn't want to play political games at all. she was certainly not the typical political wife by any means. she crossed the line. she colored outside the lines.

the nixon administration loved her when she was able to sort of promote their agenda, but once she crossed over, they didn't like that and they contained her. >> debra, the film has been described, as we were saying during the break, as a love triangle that involves richard nixon. i'm not sure american people are ready for that. tell us about the human story at the center of this drama that eventually took down a president. >> the love story was martha and nixon vying for john mitchell's attention. when we looked at it through that triangle, it humanized the story for us. there's the macro level of the political life of this trio, but a personal fallout that happens with all of these controversies. these are human beings. martha was a human being. so we really tried to look at it through the lens of having empathy for her as a human being. >> anne, what do you feel and what do we get out of the film

was the motivation for martha? i heard it alluded to that maybe she was trying to project john, her husband, and didn't know how involved he was. was it that, or was it that she really was repulsed by what she began to see was going on with the nixon administration? what was the motivation? >> i think both things can be true at the same time. i think she was absolutely -- she had a high moral compass and she saw the dirty tricks were going on. it's unclear how much she knew. she was living with john mitchell and he was involved. i think she was upset about that. she really wanted to speak truth to power. i think she was upset that she was also being gas-lit. no one believed her story, certainly not the mainstream press. as a result she was vilified and dismissed, and that upset her. >> debra, tell us more about that, the gaslighting, the efforts the white house took to try to discredit or or even harm her.

in that clip she said she was afraid for her life. >> our film is a case study in gaslighting, the merriam-webster word of the year, a psychological game played on people, people in power, for those not in power to manipulate them, to think they're crazy, that they can't believe their own thoughts. our film is really a case study in gaslighting and how nixon and mitchell and the others at the white house, there was a gaslighting machine in place to discredit her. they had a playbook that they used that still continues today, frankly. >> the director and co-director of "the martha mitchell effect" on netflix, congratulations on the nomination. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage after a quick final break.

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good morning. 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. calls for police reform following the release of the disturbing video showing the deadly beating of tyre nichols by five former memphis police