hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. welcome to monday. brand-new reporting on the long simmering criminal investigation that now appears to bursting out into the open again with major consequences for the twice-impeached ex-president. "the new york times" is today reporting this, quote, the manhattan district attorney's office on monday will begin presenting evidence to a grand jury about donald trump's role in paying hush money to a porn star during his 2016

presidential campaign. laying the groundwork for potential criminal charges against the former president in the coming months. that's according to people with knowledge of the matter. the grand jury was recently impanelled and witness testimony will soon began. the d.a. alvin bragg is nearing a decision on whether to charge trump. quote, super charging the longest running criminal investigation into mr. trump. a probe that began when donald trump's former attorney michael cohen pleaded guilty in 2018 to a host of charges for making a $130,000 payment to stormy daniels to pay for her silence ahead of the 2016 election. it's been a long and winding road to today's breaking news. at one point last year, the probe which grew to investigate the business practices of the trump org seemed all but dead

with two top prosecutors leaving the d.a.'s office after d.a. bragg stopped presenting evidence to the grand jury. "the new york times" is reporting the probe is moving again. on monday, on one of the witnesses was seen with his lawyer entering the building in lower manhattan where that witness was sitting. the national enquirer that helped broker the deal with stormy daniels. they have sought to interview several witnesses including tabloid's former editor dylan howard and two employees at trump's company, the people said. mr. howard and the trump org's employees have not yet testified before the grand jury. potential criminal charges for the twice-impeached ex-president from a once dormant

investigation is where we begin with some of our favorite reporters and friends. she has covered donald trump's finances and other going-on for years. and david lippman and michael cohen author of the new book "revenge." how donald trump weaponized the department of justice against his critics. . you were seen, you called in, because you were just coming out, you probably are reluctant to share with us everything you shared with them. i imagine you're one of the important witnesses as they presented this case to the grand jury. >> well, i did go to prison for donald's dirty deed and i did point the finger and state specifically that what i had

done, meaning the nda and the payment of the $130,000 to stormy daniels' attorney was done at the direction and for the benefit of donald j. trump who i described as co-conspirator number one. >> that's your sentencing memo. why is this happening now? why didn't the feds ever charge him? >> that's a great question. something we should be asking the southern district of new york. we should be asking jeffrey berman who claimed he was taking the sideline. who ended up writing a book about it. >> he wrote a book about it. getting really peeved about individual 1. the "the new york times" front-page story, i think peter baker wrote it that day and the

actual sentencing memo. more mentions of individual 1 than michael cohen. why do you think now this case is an attempt for accountability for individual 1 is taking place from alvin bragg's office? >> i think it's all about bragg. he came in at the beginning, he was somewhat timid and he was roundly criticized in fact for bearing this case that he's now exhumed. he brought criminal charges against the trump organization. won them. did a victory lap. "the new york times" now saying he caught his stride. i think the case is probably not very different from the one that pomerantz quit over. and bragg has just decided that now is the time. i think if bragg has made that decision this is not an exploratory grand jury.

>> this may be a dumb question, prosecutors are human beings as well. but it feels as the trump criminality shows no sign of ebbing and no sign of charging, i'm struck by what you just said. alvin bragg nearly lost his nerve. two seasoned and experienced prosecutors on this case and took him two years to go a backbone. why don't they come into the job with backbones? >> that's a sort of psychological question. i think everything you say is the true. the flip side if you shoot for the king especially first, you better be ready to kill. remember, a couple of years ago, the former president was riding more high, so i think the roll of the dice seemed more

prohibitive and everyone is jockeying -- who's going to be first and that's somewhat guts and glory kind of inquiry. >> suzanne, you were the person on this show the day that michael was testifying, who theorized and you said this is just a theory, that this was bigger, you didn't think that with allen weisselberg at rikers' you thought there was perhaps a broader look. you were right. what do you make of what you're reporting? >> some excellent reporting by my colleagues today. when i read it, the one thing

you keep thinking, this is maddening, they're going to bring a case, they pull it back, they're going to charge trump. they just charged the trump organization. one thing i felt today when i read the story potentially there could be some movement somewhere with a witness with evidence. not just talking about allen, they may have compiled other evidence that has given them more confidence that they bring a case, that was one thing i was thinking in terms of do they have additional documents? do they know more about that payment? we didn't see the payment in his tax returns. we had visibility that we could have. there's no direct line saying, payment to stormy daniels or to the company that was involved. was it buried in legal fees? they found something about that. they now have more evidence that

they're willing to move forward with. there's other reasons why they weren't willing to do it before that's one thing i'm thinking in the back of my mind. >> let's go with that theory. you i think testified -- you met 14 times, right, with alvin bragg's office. >> 14. >> was there evidence that there were witnesses or new documents? >> so, like the last time i was on the show i truly would love to spill the whole meeting, the 2.5-plus meeting i won't do that out of respect for the investigation. but i will tell you, something that i took about in my book "revenge," donald will ultimately be held accountable for this stormy daniels payment and i've always said that this investigation that was to be brought by alvin bragg's office

is the most detrimental to him, his freedom, his livelihood, his business, et cetera, because it's the easiest to prove. the checks are the checks. we know a lot. there's recordings which have been released in the past. this is an easy one. unlike some of the other cases like the fannie willis case in georgia, which he'll come out and lie which we does with impunity. i truly thought there was 11,7881 votes stolen from me. in this specific case the first three months payment was made by donald trump. i gave those to the house oversight committee who posted them and so on. he's not the same position where he can deny, or lie, the way he'll in some of the other

matters. >> can we go through what's in other records? have you been asked to testify for the grand jury? >> once again, i'm going to take the fifth on that. >> understood, understood, understood. let me deal with what's in public arena. you're write about this in revenge and your first book. donald trump talks his press corps talk to michael cohen when this spills into the open. rudy just spills the beans on sean hannity and says, michael did it. >> because rudy is an idiot. rudy broke. >> established law? >> rudy is the one who broke the privilege. >> explain trump's criminal exposure here. >> rudy broke the privilege by discussing it, he put it out there into the universe. i'm now allowed to discuss it.

at the end of the day, his exposure is significant, because as, you know, stated by the others, he now has his tax returns out there. he did not declare this in the way it should have been and on top of that, you have the campaign finance violations and you also have the misrepresentations and so on. and this as i have always said, this case is the most significant case that will cause him the most immediate damage. >> i think that -- i remember asking chris christie about this case, and i think mueller had already been appointed and working on the special counsel investigation. can you just walk me back in time and remind what he did? he sleeps with stormy daniels and then what? >> i received a phone call and

the phone call was from david picker's group that she was -- this was years after we spoke to her the first time, she was removed from dirty.com -- sorry for the plug -- but years later, as he was now going to be entering the final stage of the campaign he's already the republican candidate, she returns. meaning, stormy daniels. i'm in communication with keith davidson, her attorney, we negotiate a settlement, this is all done with donald, with allen. >> what does trump say? because you worked for him at the time. what does he say about the

affair and about the hush money? >> there were many conversations. >> with trump about -- can you tell us about some of the them? >> i'd rather not. because this is going to be part of the testimony if in fact they end up calling me and i end up down the road participating in this case, serious sacrifice to my life as well as to my family, i've been through enough in watching the drip, drip, drip of information coming out like berman who acknowledges in his own book that he was speaking to justice. yet, i brought a bar complaint against him. new york state bar association dropped the investigation claiming in his book that he also says he did nothing wrong. why have to do any homework? >> let me ask you one more question about the episodes,

would you criticize trump's role in orchestrating the hush money payments as strategic, participatory, was it idea to involve mr. pecker. >> he brought it to the attention -- >> because she had gone to the enquirer. >> exactly. purchase the story that would certainly make the front page of every newspaper. the president and the porno star. you can imagine the headlines. it would not shock you, nor should it. let's not forget that stormy daniels isn't the only one. there's also karen mcdougal, another claim i pled guilty to that i had limited to no involvement. they gave david pecker limited immunity.

so you can understand and you'll understand more as you have read revenge where i go into in greater detail in how dishonest the system was under donald trump and the danger that trumpism and trump brings to this country. >> harry, i want to respect michael's and the d.a.'s prerogatives here. if we could talk around some of this, but try to answer some of these questions for me, trump sleeps with stormy daniels, sees him as either the finals to be the republican nominee, again i wish that still shocked me, or he becomes the nominee, she goes to the enquirer, tell me the points along the way where a prosecutor will be presenting evidence of crimes to the grand jury? >> that's great question, because we have see this through two prisms. the political at the time, this

lurd scandal of, you know, a porn star, peace with the access hollywood stuff, that's why pecker was ready to catch and kill. through the prism of the criminal law, after all is said and done and michael wrote a check, there was a check written for $130,000 in particular, the very dry business of how that was characterized and was it a falsified business record? for a prosecutor, the six theories being wanting around. bragg has reexhumed it. your question on federal law, it's a clear election law violation, it's not -- but what's different new york

requirements for how you stay income and payment is what he run afoul of. can you stick this with donald trump and bragg shied away from last time, part of it was because he was persuaded because of michael's conviction and other difficulties involving the dramatic persona here, the jury would have some credibility issues. obviously he has decided otherwise now. but the basic thing to remember, it's not the mrirt call story, the legal story is a very dry thing of how you characterize income and benefits. i think they're going to charge him. >> i want to press on a door open in "the new york times" reporting today. reporting, quote, trump falsified the records to help commit or conceal a second crime in what prosecutors argued a

violation of a new york state election law. our folks looking at it have this analysis. that bragg's office has long believed that they classified reimbursement payments constitutes falsification of business records. can you unpack some of that for us and help us understand what's the first crime and what's the second crime? >> first, i have a question for michael. what i'm wondering, he said and i'm just curious, if he can talk about it, he said trump didn't declare it in the way he should have, he didn't record the payment in the way he should have, i'm curious what michael knows about it. >> right, only to say i read it as well and i heard it in some of the conversations that i had had with prosecutors about, it may not have been properly

disclosed in his tax forms that he somehow believed that you can take this as a deduction, which obviously you can't. >> but your understanding is somewhere put in as a business expense? >> correct. >> legalese or line item we can't get down to a line of visibility? >> that's why every single month they'd have me do this as a legal retainer. to which then days or weeks later i would receive the check for that month. it's not as if he was paying me legitimately. >> you were passed through to david pecker and stormy daniels. >> the payment was buried through your legal fees that you were getting after 2017. >> the alleged legal fees.

basically what he did and this was in conjunction with allen weisselberg they took the money owed to me and divided by 12. they gave me $35,000 per month and that $35,000 was supposed to represent legal fees and obviously they knew exactly in advance what they intended to do and to deduct the legal fees as a business expense. >> okay, so what i think about, and other people have talked about thi, it's going to come down to more evidence around what michael has testified to, get the documents together, you know the prosecutors always say you can't pick your witnesses and you can't get priests and rabbis. people testifying now have spent time in jail. questions about their credibility. they're trying to build a larger case around that. i think allen has so far not be

cooperative, i'm keeping an eye on him if he at some point, the pressure on other charges is great enough that he decides that he's going to talk. i have no insight into that but sometimes one day that decision is just made it's too much and the threat of, you know, additional charges against him he's willing, what he knows about -- he's willing to talk to them. >> the role of the two witnesses in the times story play. >> witnesses in the trump organization trial where the guilty verdict came back, so they had a star turn in there. in front of grand jury multiple times for that. i imagine with both, particularly jeff, he'll know about the accounting and how it worked and allen weisselberg

accounted for these. we know that allen was thanks to the tapes and he was there. what did they know about it, i think allen will try to ascertain in front of a grand jury. >> one thing these investigations are starting to have in common is circling the witnesses that won't cooperate to get at the truth. i'm going to ask you to stick around through the break. how the hush money payments have been a focus of prosecutors for years now. i'll keep pressing on this. why now? why charge him now? plus, now that the country has seen the violent and brutal death, murder of tyre nichols on video the conversation turns to the cycle of trauma on top of trauma and what we do next. how do we break the cycle. later in the program, how the

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i pled guilty in federal court. to felonies for the benefit of and direction of and in coordination with individual number 1. and for the record individual 1

is president donald j. trump. it's painful to admit that i was motivated by ambition, it's even more painful to admit that many times i ignored my conscience and acted loyal to a man when i shouldn't have. sitting here today it seems unbelievable that i was so mesmerized we donald trump and that was willing to do things for him. >> i watched that earlier. i'm glad to bring you back that to that moment. what happens after you say that? >> well, first of all, i'm noticing how much grayer my hair gotten since that. i'm not feeling great about myself at the moment.

>> sorry about that. >> i'm sorry, your question? >> you say that and obviously, you know, i guess the feds know that and i still don't understand why they didn't do anything. the bragg's predecessors hear that, do they pounce on you as a witness to try to find out what individual 1 who's named prowill havic ly throughout your memo. >> dozen investigations that were spurred from that. tish james acknowledged my participation 14 times. i spoke to eight different congressional committees, i spoke to eight times to different congressional committees. that's a lot of testimony.

hundreds and hundreds of hours worth of it. my hope is that this man is held to accountability that he's responsible for. >> harry, i want to deal with something that you and suzanne have both alluded to, credibility of michael as a witness. i remember when michael was on the hill testifying that day, trump was overseas and he blew an entire overseas trip. he was in vietnam. he was meeting with kim jong-un. according to news reports in "the new york times" and the washington post, he spent the whole time in his room stewing about cohen's testimony. 14 trips to tish james. 8 to bragg's office, which before that was run by somebody else. named and quoted and cited in the sentencing memo and other documents from the feds.

are we past the point where credibility is in question? is it just an imagine thing before a grand jury? because i think at this point, the receipts have borne out. thank him for the testimony and my understanding is corroborating all of michael's testimony. >> we're past the point in this show, really, one judges him through common sense, excuse me michael who's a friend, but you understand when someone has begun to tell the truth, but, first of all, prosecutors have two mindsets, they want to get the information, investigation and they want to figure what they can prove. they got the information from michael, 13 of his 14 visits were with cyrus vance. in that inquiry, you're always defensive, sounds good here, nicolle, but you'll actually

frame how the cross-examination will go, the line by line and how it will look, how it will leave michael looking at the end of it and i'll just say, again, you know, as a cold-blooded fact that a prosecutor would realize that there will be some, you know, cost, some impact after an expert defense lawyer had his way with michael, of course that happens in basically every case. prosecutors put on people who have had convictions and the like. but the important point is between a friendly msnbc panel and a very unfriendly even a nasty defense lawyer looking to distort pecker would have been in receipt of the hush money

payment. what did the prosecutors get for their hush money payments? isn't he an important witness, mr. pecker? >> the national enquirer is an important point of this. now they have to go and see what they collect in terms of the documents and knowledge. michael earlier and i was interested to hear and i've read it in his book about the payments and the legal payments that went to him the important thing is he got those payments. they didn't show up on the tax returns. trump didn't then put them to the irs as a bright line, payments to michael for legal fees. somewhere somebody knows but how they were accounted for is really i think this is going to come down to. mushy line item that's big, where they can hide it, put in legal fees for another law firm.

if i were inside this i would be trying to figure out how they were accounted for and that's where the narrative continues. we have the national enquirer and their involvement and you go into the payment and then to the accounting department, it's a follow the money trail to there. the witnesses you mentioned earlier, he spent hours, days on the stand during weisselberg's trial, he's incredibly acknowledgeable. the big question is whether he'll be forthcoming. >> hang on. i'm going to give you the last word, michael. harry, respond. i got a question for you. >> i think it's clear they know. the question is whether they can prove a big part of that could

be mr. weisselberg, i think they've already traced the money. >> harry, this is being reported by cnn and it says federal prosecutors discussed charging trump in the stormy daniels case when he left office. he left the white house, federal prosecutors deciding whether to charge him with crime once he was out of office. they decided to not seek an indictment of trump for several reasons. now, i don't have -- we haven't corroborated any of that. it paints a justice department so hobbled by political calculations.

this is a horrible fact pattern if that bears out to be true. >> all right, only in part, campaign finance, you know, they brought against us -- >> a crime is a crime. trump's been charged with nothing because everyone is like, it's not big enough. we'll get him for the insurrection. that's novel. we'll get him for the documents. biden and pence. what is going on at the doj? >> when you're right, you're right. it really does matter and there's been different calculations. what's the first going to be, if it's picky u and campaign finance generally is nowhere near the kinds of things he's done and been charged with, the question is, do you do the first-ever prosecution of a president for campaign finance violence? that's indefensible. but i'll say, hang tight. >> hang tight.

go ahead. >> honig's book called "untouchable," it's a great bookend to my book "revenge," because it explicitly talks about department of justice and the way they were weaponized, which is amazing, because with trump it's merely deflection. >> has it stopped? is doing nothing -- it's not weaponization, inaction also political? >> absolutely. ellie explains that, he had the ability which i didn't have in my book, i had to bring in brian in order to speak with and to get information out of the southern district, or the sovereign district of new york, the entire justice system in this country needs an overhaul and donald trump needs to be held accountable, you know there's the expression with the grand jury.

that they could indict him a sandwich, i think they're going to indict the whole pig. >> we'll let that be the final word. up next for us, a much more serious and tragic topic, we'll turn to police reform in this country, how to make sure that the outrage and the grief that people feel right now calls for change can be us is stained this time. much more straight ahead. ight ad being together. celebrating together. ♪ ...without letting anything keep you apart. walgreens pharmacists are here to help you stay well. and stay...together. ♪

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more than two years after the death of george floyd in police custody and the cycles of trauma that ignited once again america is traumatized and being confronted with the ongoing, unsparing crisis of police brutality as a result of a traffic stop that turned fatal in a video that frankly raises more questions than it answers about what exactly happened on january 7th in memphis. raises questions about police culture, about basic humanity or lack thereof, the specific questions in this case, how many more people were involved in that traffic stop? what about the lack of urgent medical care being provided by medical providers? the ultimate number of human beings, potential criminality, will be rendered responsible for tyre nichols' death. what are we going to do this

time? are we going to break the pattern of horror and grief and actually sustain or attention and change the status quo? it's an open question. protests across the country after the video showed the traffic stop that led to the death of tyre nichols. the video is brutal, appalling, it was impossible for me to get through. it's a disastrous attempt at something resembling policing, a comprehensive investigation showed officers shouted at least 71 commands during the approximately 13-minute period before they reported over the radio that mr. nichols was in their custody. officers commanded mr. nichols to show his hands even as they were holding his hands. told him to get on the ground even when he was on the ground.

and they ordered to him to reposition himself. the memphis police department announced that a sixth officer has been relieved of duty. five other office verse been fired, charged with murder. the unit they worked for the so-called scorpion unit was disbanded over the weekend. all of this as a push for justice, it's hard for the family of the late tyre nichols. here's tyre's mom. >> i feel like my son was sacrificed for the greater good and it's going to be a lot of good that comes out of this. hopefully we can help another kid and another family not go through something like this. my son will always be remembered and i will continue to fight until justice is served for him.

>> join our coverage, senior opinion writer for the boston globe. eddie glaude is back. paul butler is back, former federal prosecutor, now a professor of law at georgetown university. i will say, i don't think that this one is a wound that anyone still in touch with our humanity gets over, a father, a young black man, totally dominated by five, many others at the scene and no one helps him. paul, let's deal with the moral arena next, legally where are we? >> so, nicolle, the extreme violence by the cops explains why the prosecution's bringing

murder charges. prosecutors have to prove that the officers knew their actions taken together would likely cause mr. nichols to die and when the jury sees the cops kicking mr. nichols in the head and striking him with a baton while he's lying on the ground that's evidence of criminal intent. apart from bringing these five officers to justice, the bigger issue in 2023, law enforcement officers tortured and executed an american citizen on public streets. where did these officers learn this criminal conduct? justify their beating by screaming at mr. nichols to lie on the ground when that's exactly what he was doing, who taught them to file a police report that was a complete lie, just like the police report in the breonna taylor case and the george floyd case? the way the officers congratulated each other after

they brought mr. nichols into custody, they thought it was a good day at the office, that this brutal form of policing is what they're paid to do. >> paul, what's so striking, as they do all those things with their cams on, and i try really hard, right, we try to play it straight around here, i don't know -- this is bigger and broader than the officers involved if they conducted themselves exactly as you described with their body cams on? >> they had to do this knowing they were being recorded because they thought they could get away it because most times police officers do. if mr. nichols had not die these officers might not have been prosecuted in this case, either. >> i want to talk about the

trauma of the tape, i watched it. the family asked for it to be released and so i thought it was important to watch it. i can't unsee it. as a mom, eddie, i don't have the trauma of everyday worrying if my son gets pulled over, but every black parent of a boy that i know has that fear, right, they tell them what to do, and i can't -- i can't live that terror, but just tell me what we need to know about the circles of trauma from that tape being out there and knowing that the 29-year-old described as a gentle soul by everything i have seen, yards away from his mom, his last words were to call out for his mother three times. >> yeah, nicolle, i have yet to get those images out of my head.

they nestled up against the other bad images, the baby crying, the 9-year-old who witnessed george floyd's murder, the young man who was murdered in louisiana, his son crying for his dad. every time these images circulate, nicolle, it functions almost like terror. what do i mean by that? it sends every parent, every black parent in particular into a kind of spiral of concern and worry about their own child. i have a 26-year-old son, he's at berkeley law school, he has dreads. he's 6'2". he's not with me because i don't know if he'll be safe. he's doing everything right, but who knows if a cop is having a bad day and comes out and approaches him on level 10, what can you do?

when these images circulate, imagine the sense of anxiety that's immediately heightened in black communities across the country who have children, parents who have children, it's a form of terror in some sense. >> i want to z you guys if we are a country right now that can break a cycle, a form of terror and these circles of trauma and grief? i think everyone living this and seeing this as eddie is being terrorized in being terrorized in some way. i'm asking you guys to stick around through a break. more on the other side. side

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like new lobster and shrimp tacos for $17.99. and leave completely lobsessed. welcome to fun dining. we're back with kim, eddie and paul. kim, what are your thoughts today? >> yeah. you know, i don't want in this discussion about what is happening with this half dozen officers to be a substitute for the idea that this is a case -- these arrests, these firings are the end of it. this evaluation of this other officer who's been suspended. because they could not -- just even if they meet the maximum punishment available, this still speaks of a system that is so fundamentally broken. i mean, the way that eddie was talking about the trauma. that has been the point. the history of law enforcement in our country that goes all the

way back to the apprehension of runaway enslaved people. that's the idea, was to hold them up as an example to say this can happen to you if you don't stay in your place. and that's what i saw from this video. you saw people who had an authority, who seemed mostly angry that the person wasn't immediately ceding to that authority and wanting to prove a lesson. that's not what police are supposed to do. this scorpion task force seems to me the opposite of what is needed to stop crime in neighborhoods, which is community policing, talking with members of the community to find out how to better serve them, not to clamp down on them in a militaristic style. so it seems to me after all of these discussions for two years after america saw a man lynched in the street in minneapolis, we haven't gotten anywhere. and to me that's one of the most upsetting parts of this entire situation. >> paul, i share that concern. i also think that this happened on january 7th and no one has

dropped a single hint about what crime was even allegedly -- what tyre even allegedly did. the video the question doesn't answer is why he was pulled over. there's no information being put out and no evidence that he did anything that warrants be being pulled over. >> these officers didn't care about some possible traffic infraction that mr. nichols might or might not have convicted. this was about warrior policing. in that context remember, mr. nichols suffered from crohn's disease. he weighed 145 pounds. all five officers are over 200 pounds. two of them played college football. their size was part of their job qualifications. it advances the style of policing that these units aresut the police are the meanest, toughest crew on the streets and

there will be consequences for any civilian who doesn't demonstrate obedience and respect. so nicolle, what mr. nichols made those officers chase him for eight minutes, one of the officers said, "i hope they stomp his ass." and that's what these cops think of as policework. even the name scorpion. that communicates how they construct their relationship to the people who they're supposed to be serving and protecting. >> paul butler, kim atkins-story, eddie glaude, to be continued. thank you for spending time with us today. up next for us we are learning more about the man who attacked paul pelosi and the lies that inspired him to do it. those lies show no sign of quieting down or abating in our politics. we'll bring you that story after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ick break. don't go anywhere. to a child, this is what conflict looks like. children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes. a steady stream of refugees

has been coming across all day. it's basically cold. lacking clean water and sanitation. exposed to injury, hunger. exhausted and shell shocked from what they've been through. every dollar you give can help bring a meal, a blanket, or simply hope to a child living in conflict. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today with your gift of $10 a month, that's just $0.33 a day. we cannot forget the children in places like syria, born in refugee camps, playing in refugee camps, thinking of the camps as home. please call or go online to givenowtosave.org today. with your gift of $10 a month, your gift can help children like ara in afghanistan, where nearly 20 years of conflict have forced the people into extreme poverty

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i've said over and over again that he can't win a general election. and that's not speculation. that's based upon the polling that i was privy to pre the 2020 election and what we saw actually happen in the 2020 election. and it's only gotten worse since then. then add to it what you saw happen in 2022. the election deniers losing across the country. bad candidates like mastriano in pennsylvania dragging the entire pennsylvania ticket down in a historic way. kari lake, blake masters, tim mike lds, tudor jones, we could go through the entire list. loser, loser, loser, loser. and i think republicans are recognizing that. >> it's the loser, stupid motto

in republican politics. hi there, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york on the weekend that trump held his first public event since announcing his 2024 presidential bid. this as former close ally chris christie reminding the country and the gop that trump's lies cost them bigly. it cost them the presidency. it cost them seats in the senate and control. it cost them in governor's mansions. yet, yet the twice impeached disgraced ex-president doesn't seem to care one little bit. this weekend he made appearances at two early primary states, first new hampshire and then south carolina. at the second stop the "washington post" reports this. "minutes into a campaign speech here saturday trump raised his false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from him." returning to an issue that many republicans worry has cost their party crucial support. in '23, so three years in, he's continuing to push the lie that has been debunked by dozens of lawsuits, debunked by many members of his own presidential

administration, and of course has already led to a deadly insurrection at the united states capitol. but it didn't stop there. on sunday trump phoned in to a rally that was being hosted by one of his faves, one of the people he endorsed in 2022 who lost. she made the big lie the centerpiece of her candidacy. kari lake of arizona. lake lost the race for arizona governor but maintains she actually didn't lose over on earth 2. she's pressing her case in some court. trump, who lake put on speaker phone at her rally, said she will be, quote, victorious. an alarming, disturbing echo of his own delusions. lake lost to katie hobbs by more than 17,000 votes and just last week the arizona supreme court declined to hear her case. but this ever-present obsession with the big lie is more than just a political liability. we wouldn't be covering it if that was it. we saw it on display on january 6th and we're seeing it still in

american political and civic life. the big lie undergirds the threat of regionalized, localized political violence. in late october the husband of then speaker nancy pelosi was brutally attacked in his own home by a man looking for, quote, nancy. on friday we saw the surreal and disturbing terrifying body camera footage of what happened that night. shortly after the video was made public from jail the alleged attacker, david depape, called a reporter at a local san francisco television station, ktvu, saying he wanted to make a statement. depape talked about the attack in a chilling way. >> you're welcome. depape has zero regrets. that's from the man who when brought into custody spouted his crazy conspiracy theories about pelosi and the 2020 election,

thoughts he furthered on this call on friday, telling the reporter there that the liberty and freedom being killed. he said this, "the people killing it have names and addresses. so i got their names and addresses so i could pay a little visit and have a heart to heart chat about their behavior." and then there is an apology in this story. not to the victims of the attack. he apologizes for not being better prepared for the attack. depape has pleaded not guilty. the dangers of the big lie is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite experts and reporters. former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence frank figliuzzi is back. barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney, now university of michigan law professor. charlie sykes, editor at large at the bulwark. all msnbc contributors. but we're going to start with is this from fort mills, south carolina my colleague nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. vaughn, take me inside the

delusion tour. >> let's see here. we've been following it for a while. and i think, nicolle, it's kind of like a car that you fall in love with here. and in 2020 the car battery died but they went and recharged the battery. and then it cruised on to 2022 and perhaps you could say the windshield wipers stopped functioning and weren't quite able, the republican party had trouble seeing out the windshield, right? but guess what they did. they went and replaced the windshield wipers and they got the car moving again. and that car is donald trump. and if you look at this month, take january 2023 and the foundation that the republican party set for itself, earlier in the month it was kevin mccarthy who remains an ally of donald trump. he won the speakership. and then last week i was in california when the likes of ronna mcdaniel won the rnc chair race and she was being challenged by mike lindell and harvey dylan both also allies. and came out here to south

carolina. and i stood outside the state house where donald trump flew in from new hampshire where he announced the new hampshire chair was coming out of the party to become his senior adviser on his campaign and made his way to south carolina where he was flanked by the likes of three u.s. house members from south carolina as well as the sitting governor henry mcmaster and lindsey graham, who all endorsed donald trump despite the likes of tim scott, the fellow senator from south carolina and their former governor nikki haley, the former u.n. ambassador, considering runs themselves here. donald trump has laid a foundation, nicolle, and he intends to continue to do so here around the country until anybody actually jumps in this race and tries to challenge him. >> actually, let he me just say your car is my political dirty bomb, contaminating the republican party and our democracy. but i'll let you stick with your car analogy. are they into this old rackety broken down car? >> i can tell you for sure there

are folks that are still waving at the car as it drives by. i mean, we were outside where there were hundreds of folks. it was not a mega rally but instead you had activists, particularly activists from around the country -- from around the state who drove into town and one person after the next i asked them what about tim scott, what about nikki haley? i did not find a single individual who said they wanted either to run for president and that donald trump was their person. they like desantis but donald trump was their person. when you look at the polling nationally it continues to bear out that he's got about a 15-point lead nationally here. when you're looking at the likes of kari lake, who is still contesting her own governor's race and still being invited, she was over at the rnc winter meeting last week. donald trump is still calling into a rally that she held last night saying she's going to be victorious. you know, we are seeing not a doubling down but just a repeating of itself, one cycle after the next. and when we're talking about a republican primary there has been no indication that this won't work again here in 2024.

but for the general election as you heard chris christie say there are plenty of reasons because of the last two election cycles to be skeptical. >> charlie, i really appreciate vaughn's reporting, and i think it's going to bear out. i mean, everyone else is an also ran. he still controls the base of the party, which is smaller but more extreme. you look at the polls. more accepting of political violence. more appalling to the political center. and so part of me on the -- chris christie's right here. he's a total loser in a general. but you never know what's going to happen. and i hate sort of saying oh, it's -- i didn't like democrats playing in the primaries and helping maga candidates. but vaughn is absolutely right. and i want to read something you wrote. it's sort of the evolution of the cruelty being the point. it's about brutality. "as he seeks a return to power in '24 trump has already pivoted to brutality. and there is nothing subtle about it. for trump this is hardly a new theme. his enthusiasm for violence

including torture, extrajudicial murder, and shooting both migrants and protesters has been a consistent feature of his politics for years. the pro-life former president makes no secret of his passion for actual violence including the maiming, wounding, flesh tearing, shooting and killing of human beings. and this appetite for brutality will soon become a litmus test for right-wing politicians including any of his gop challengers." this is only known to people studying his sort of post-presidency speeches. but this is -- again, this isn't some oppo dump, right? we didn't find this at a meeting with donors. we didn't have a bug in the fuentes-kanye dinner. this is in his written speeches. he's reading this off teleprompters. >> yes. he's been telling us who he is for some time. and attention ought to be paid to this because as adam serwer in "the atlantic" who said the cruelty is the point. and my point is what happens when cruelty's not enough. now with the brutality is the point.

and he's not going to allow anyone on the republican party to flank him on the right, to be more brutal. and the fact is this works for him. the maga base loves it. and vaughn's report is a reality check. a lot of this campaign has been waiting for godot. right? waiting for merrick garland or the department of justice to do something. waiting for someone to take care of him. waiting for ron desantis to get into the race. but look around you. there have been no charges against him. there's a big question mark whether or not that would derail him. is ron desantis even going to get into this race? if ron desantis gets into this race, will he be able to take a punch? will he be able to throw a punch? and so even though you can run down all the reasons why it is absolutely unthinkable that donald trump could once again become president or the nominee of the republican party, the reality is right now he is the odds-on favorite because this is a party that has never been able to -- has never been able to, you know, summon the will to

oppose him. and so i think people need to take seriously the threat he poses but also what he is continuing to inject into the political culture. and you know, it's interesting we're talking about it in the context of the attack on paul pelosi because this passion for violence, the normalization of violence, the willingness to spread lies and conspiracy theories about the violence, the willingness to celebrate and joke about the violence has become very much a part of our political culture, the political culture on the right and the willingness of republicans to accept it and to -- and to circulate it in this doom loop of disinformation. so this is a reality and it's not going away anytime soon. >> yeah. and miles taylor, frank, often cites the public polling that a majority of republicans believe that if you cannot achieve your aims through peaceful manners that violence is an acceptable method. these are the elected officials

and prominent media voices that circulated with their large platforms misinformation, disinformation and doubt on the attack on speaker paul pelosi. i'm going to read it here for anyone in their car. senator ted cruz. the now super powerful marjorie taylor greene. representative clay higgins. representative claudia tenney. north carolina lieutenant governor mark robinson. candidate for the georgia state house mary williams benefield. arizona state senator wendy rogers. florida state representative anthony sabbatini. media figures glenn beck, tucker carlson, the pardoned dinesh d'souza. ryan fournier. he's the founder of students for trump. sebastian gorka. pete hegseth. he works at fox news. he's a host. megyn kelly. elon musk. devin nunes. michael savage. he's a talk show host. the pardoned roger stone. donald trump. and royce white, a former nba

player who ran for congress. adam kinzinger tweeted this. frank, can we please dig up every person's tweet who made fun of this or cast doubt? this was a sick attack and politicians minimizing it suck. so there's a list of people who suck. but frank, i want you to take me back to what i heard from prosecutor in new mexico, prosecuting the case of the mastermind of the shooting and the targeting of four democratic officials' homes as well as this case. there's no remorse, only an apology that he wasn't more successful. where are we? >> we're at a critical juncture. let me explain why. and i'm going to keep riding the car that vaughn has thrown into the mix here. eventually, as a car becomes hobbled and breaks down, one of the things that can go on it is the exhaust system and it starts spewing toxic emissions. right? so that's what we're seeing now

in this kind of hobbled car of trump and the gop supporters of trump, because there was a time earlier, just several months ago where i may have well told you on the air, you know, he's being disabled by the fact that he loses and that his candidates lose and so maybe he will be less of a threat. but that car analogy where yeah, the car becomes toxic and dangerous for what it's spewing into the atmosphere is i think now applying to trump. in terrorism, in international terrorism particularly when we see a terrorist leader kind of ostracized by one larger group because he's become too extreme, he goes off and takes people with him and gathers more followers and becomes even more extreme and more enables and more dangerous. and so i think what's happening right now at this critical juncture where trump can either

go into the ether and fade away and perhaps get charged federally or by a state and be seriously wounded by those charges and by his extremism or we can see him go the other path and his followers honed into a sharpened, more dangerous, extremist threat, that's where we are right now. and if i had to put money on it today i see a sharpened, more extremist and dangerous threat. >> yeah, barbara, that bears out in two pieces of reporting. the "times" has an analysis of how his social media con-tent has become more extreme. he started parroting and amplifying qanon accounts. and at the same time facebook says this about reinstating him replatforming him. "our determination is that the risk has sufficiently receded and that we should therefore adhere to the two-year timeline we set out. as such we'll be reinstating trump's facebook and instagram accounts in the coming weeks. however, we're doing so with new guardrails in place to deter

repeat offenses." if there actually are guardrails, how long do you think he's going to last on facebook? >> yeah, it really is kind of astonishing to me that they're choosing to reinstate him in light of the content that he's posting on truth social, which i think would violate any community standards they have at facebook. at least i would hope so. it has become so extreme. violence and support for qanon, which is a crazy theory, a conspiracy theory that democrats are part of a satan-worshiping cabal that has child sex rings. i mean, it's crazy talk. and yet it's getting more extreme there. and so the idea that facebook would say we think the threat has subsided is really quite astonishing to me. but i think this normalization of violence is a very dangerous thing. frank talked about terrorism. there's a concept in terrorism called stochastic terrorism. and it may be that donald trump doesn't really want to use violence, he just wants to stir up resentment and grievance and

the tougher he talks the more people follow him. but it is so reckless because you have to know that there is someone out there who will hear that message as a call to duty, as happened with david depape. for years nancy pelosi has been demonized, with pictures of her in every political ad. she's always the bogeyman, the one with the horns and the swastika and engulfed in flames with the hashtag fire nancy. if you have somebody out there who is unhinged, they are going to see that and act on it. and so it's so incredibly irresponsible to stoke the flames of violence in that way. and i think putting donald trump back on facebook is only going to make the problem worse. >> vaughn, i see you moved. you look like an angel. you have the sun streaming behind you. i was excited about the shot but it's easier to see your face now. tell me what you heard -- i know you're always talking to folks. so tell me what you heard in the crowd. did you see any evidence of what trump is putting into the political pipeline, sort of at the receiver end?

are they more into his more extreme missives these days? >> right, i think in a way, if i may actually, it seems like all of it is an afterthought. right? it's how many times can -- for the sake of, sorry, bringing another analogy into this, top go off the smoothie maker and the smoothie is all over the kitchen. it just becomes a thing after a while. and when you're talking about the folks there, and i'm actually going to grab my computer, i had to move over. there was a sign in the crowd at kari lake's event there yesterday that i thought was noteworthy. she was talking, there was someone in the crowd that held up a sign and it said "arizona court of appeals decide wisely. god and the gallows await." there's really no other way to put it than someone went out of their way to put on a sign here. we're talking about people that are legitimately believing that their democracy is being stolen from them in a way opposite from

what we are having the conversation about here. and it's concerning. it's quite frankly very difficult to enter into these conversations with so many of the people here because you're talking in a different reality in which they believe that truly the next two years are about much more of a fight than just a political fight but one to take back the integrity of the system that they have come to no longer trust. >> and i mean charlie, i saw you react to the gallows. this is what trump directed his base to do to mike pence, right? hang mike pence. and the gallows were built to punish mike pence. i mean, what do you -- i'm exhausted by any sort of questions around the direct line between trump's language and rhetoric and the incitement of violence and the handful of things that are carried out, in this case in san francisco and new mexico. but as we are at sort of the preinfancy stage of another cycle and with vaughn as our

eyes and ears this is very much what he continues to pour into the body politic. >> no. and he's been pouring it in for some time. it's no longer speculation will this lead to violence. it's already happened. it happened on january 6th. it happened in new mexico. it happened in san francisco. there have been mass shootings where people have basically mirrored his rhetoric. this is a country of hundreds of millions of people. how many people need to be deranged or need to feel that they are reporting to duty when they engage in this kind of violence? so the notion from facebook that somehow the risk has receded is absolutely delusional. the risk continues to increase. in fact, it's become inevitable. and i know we overuse the word normalization but i think the real danger is that we will have more political violence and that well be accepted in our

political culture, that there won't be a moment where everyone steps back and says this is reckless, this is radical, we need to sober up, we need to push back on all of this. none of this has been happening. so i think we're in a very, very dangerous time. and as trump is pressured, as he's pressured one hopes by the legal community but if he suffers any defeats, his response will not be to step back. it will be to escalate the pattern of rhetoric that he's already using. and i know that there are people who say well, maybe we shouldn't pay that much attention to donald trump, maybe we should ignore him, don't give him any platform, don't give him any oxygen. i think that's absolutely wrong. i think it's really important to listen very carefully to the message he's putting out, the toxic sludge he is injecting into the american culture, and the message that he is sending to his hardcore supporters. maybe he can't be elected president in a general election but we're going to have a bulwark poll out tomorrow morning that i think will

illustrate how hardcore his support is and how far maybe 30% of that republican base is willing to go with him, what they are willing to accept, what they are willing to do. and i think it will be, it ought to be a wake-up call to people to understand what he represents and and what it could actually mean for this country. >> i completely agree with that. and i think why vaughn, the reporting you're doing is so important. i'm really glad you grabbed your computer. the gallows and god. that's exactly what he's putting into motion. i'm not sure trump could define either of those words or give us three synonyms for each. but that is exactly what he's putting into motion. for your reporting and for being there and for being our eyes and ears, vaughn hillyard, thank you very much for starting us off. frank, barb, charlie and i stick around. much more with all of us about what we're talking about, the real world dangers of the big lie, of normalizing a permission structure for violence and what comes next for the twice-impeached disgraced ex-president on that front. plus the shocking announcement by doj of three arrests in a

murder for hire plot right here in these united states by suspected iranian agents who wanted to kill a guest on this program, iranian journalist and human rights activist rasi alinijad at her home in brooklyn, new york. she'll be our guest later in the program. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. ues aft. don't go anywhere today. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty.

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we're back with frank figliuzzi, barbara mcquade and charlie sykes. fig, i want you to pick up on something really ominous that charlie just said that this permission structure, i don't think that's strong enough a where'd, this enthusiasm for political violence -- i remember when trump as a candidate he did an event in chicago and i remember calling someone on his

campaign and i said hey, this has to be a red line. people are going to get hurt at his event. what are we -- and i hate to ask you where are we. it's pretty clear where we are. but what are we stumbling into with the combination of disinformation, people at events he's calling in to with gallows and god signs, gallows means one thing, right? the unabashed enthusiasm and embrace of the right-wing militias and the elevation of the elected officials closest to them. marjorie taylor greene, biggs, gates, et cetera. >> the guns, god and the extremist violence that's being put out here is a dangerous mix that we see in international terrorism. i hate to keep bringing it up, but it's so analogous, nicolle. the pastors out there who we see video clips of on social media who literally, literally from

the pulpit are are equating democrats with demons. wow. the god and gallows thing. yeah, that's legit. that's where they're coming from. this wrapping yourself in a kind of perverted version of christianity where the only possible political party that god would possibly be on the side of is the gop. as if he cares. as if he or she or them cares about be american politics. but they've wrapped themselves in it. there's a recent trip trump took where he walks into a fast food establishment and the staff says can we pray for you and pray with you? as if he cares about that happening. that is a dangerous mix that we see in violent islamic jihad. are we headed toward a kind of

jihad in a culture war where only one side can be righteous and the other side is the infidel? that's where i see this going. >> barbara, i guess i understand why it's so hard for our political leaders to deal with what's right in front of us. and i put it in front of us every day in hopes that we cannot -- at least not be in denial. right? and i sat here on january 6th. the camera trained on the insurrection. just like every other network, including fox. and i kept asking why it looked like a tailgate. why aren't they running? right? why aren't they afraid? and my question for you is what has been sent to those who would carry out what the guy at the rally had on his thing, gallows and god? what messages have been read by

domestic violent extremists from our politics and our coverage of it over the last two years? >> well, i'd like to think at least some of the people who were there on january 6th or might have thought about going on january 6th have seen the consequences for those who were there. some people have been held accountable. some of the people who testified at the january 6th hearings were themselves there. there was a man who said i obeyed donald trump as if i had horse blinders on and realized what had happened. but i think that's a fairly small subset of his followers. there are still some who are just as highly motivated as ever to follow his agenda, who share the grievances and resentments and will put him back in power by any means necessary. and so what that says to me is we need a higher level of accountability for deterrence purposes. you can prosecute all the foot soldiers at the capitol on january 6th but until you prosecute those who were the masterminds i think that the message may not be received. and so that's why i think it is

so critically important that the attorney general, the special counsel focus on those people who were involved in planning it. whether it's donald trump or those in the willard hotel war room or others who were involved in trying to not only attack the capitol. it may or may not be the case that they can make that link. but to lie to the american people about a stolen election to try to pressure mike pence to abuse his power as vice president. those crimes occurred really right before our eyes. and to me holding the people responsible accountable including donald trump is essential. to deter people from engaging in this kind of behavior in the future. >> charlie, you and i are steeped in the rhetoric of republican politics over the last 40 years. and i just -- i have to add this. if the shoe were on the other foot and the democratic party were a front group for a rising, an ascendant group of domestic violent extremists and elected officials who'd ascended to

leadership who were in partnership with, appear with, ask for security to be provided by a group of domestic violent extremists, it would be all that the republican party would talk about. what is the -- what is sort of the obligation of the media and the other party and independents and people who've broken with the zombie trump republican party like liz cheney and adam kinzinger to call it out? >> well, first of all, to your first point about if it had been the other way around, this is one of the reasons why people at fox news are obsessed with inflating the significance of antifa, because they want to create this sense that there is this left-wing organization and ignore -- now, don't pay attention to the proud boys and the oath keepers and all of these other actual armed militants who have close ties to trump world. let's inflate antifa. but imagine if you had joe biden or if you had kamala harris or if you had barack obama having these kinds of relationships, you know, to armed militant

groups or the black panthers. what is the obligation? one of the obligations i think of the media is not to cover donald trump as if he is a normal political candidate. not to cover this campaign strictly by the usual horse race rules. and this is something that one of my colleagues, bill kristol, tweeted about over the weekend. >> i saw that. >> looking at some of the coverage of the visit to south carolina and saying are we going to do this all over again? are we going to write about donald trump, you know, stopping to get ice cream without mentioning january 6th, without mentioning the fact that this was a man that actually tried to overthrow the government, tried to subvert the election, who continues to traffic in these conspiracy theories? you know, who throws out these racist attacks on mitch mcconnell's wife on a weekly basis. are we going to cover him as if all of this other stuff is not happening? and look, i acknowledge this is hard for the media.

it is hard for the journalistic template to deal with somebody like donald trump who is so willing to keep pushing the limits, to lie, to engage in so much egregious conduct. but we cannot cover him as if this is just a normal usual campaign. >> amen. barbara mcquade and charlie sikes, thank you so much for being part of our coverage. frank sticks around because when we come back the justice department has broken up a murder for hire plot hatched in iran to assassinate a journalist and activist familiar to viewers of this program. masih alinejad was the target of that plot. it was not the first one. she will join us here at the table after a quick break. you don't want to miss this. you don'wat nt to miss this.

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in the united states of america our system of laws protects our citizens in the peaceful exercise of their constitutional and civil rights. the department of justice will not tolerate attempts by an authoritarian regime to undermine those protections and the rule of law upon which our democracy is based. we will not tolerate attempts by a foreign power to threaten, silence, or harm americans. we will stop at nothing to identify, find and bring to

justice those who endanger the safety of the american people. >> in the last few weeks we've grown accustomed to seeing attorney general merrick garland stand at that same podium to announce a new special counsel or new findings of classified documents. but when garland took the podium on friday, as you just saw, it was not that kind of announcement. and it was not that kind of dry deliberate delivery. it was emotional. it was powerful. it was a major announcement of charges being brought by this doj against three men who attempted to assassinate a u.s.-based journalist. if you're a regular viewer of our program, you knew her the second you saw her. it was masih alinejad. she's been our eyes and ears on the ground inside iran on the continuing protests there. she has become one of the preeminent voices of resistance against the iranian regime. and they have taken note. which is why according to attorney general merrick garland three men who were part of an eastern european criminal group with ties to iran attempted to

murder her last year on u.s. soil, right here in our country. according to the unsealed indictment released friday the three men were charged with murder for hire and money laundering, conspiracy counts according to the indictment. one of those men was arrested in july after he was found with a loaded ak-47 style assault rifle outside her house. he at the direction of the two other men, quote, was preparing imminently to execute the attack, end quote. joining us now, the intended target of that attack, masih alinejad, iranian american journalist, activist and one of the inspirational leaders of this moment and behind the protests in iran. i was so upset when i heard during the day that it was you. and i wonder how you're doing. >> first of all, i love you. i love this sisterhood. and that's what we need. because look, i came here in america to practice my freedom of speech, my freedom of expression, the way that you do.

and i don't deserve to be the target of kidnapping plot, assassination plot. not only me, my stepchildren. today i just read a message from my step -- i mean from my friend. she is the mother of my stepchildren. and i cried the same way that you cried. because she said we are one family. we are not going to keep silent. we are going to speak up against these murders because this is a national security issue for americans. and i want americans to pay attention to that. i want the u.s. government to pay attention to this like bipartisan. this should be stopped. >> why do they want you dead? >> because i'm giving voice to brave leaders, brave women inside iran. you know, the islamic republic is scared of its own people. what i do, i'm not carrying any weapon. i'm only 48 kilos.

and my -- >> less now. >> yes. my weapon is my voice, my words, my social media. that scares the regime. right now i'm talking to you, iranian women are being raped in prison. they hanged men just because of supporting their sisters. their mothers. their daughters. women being shot in their eyes. many women and men being blinded. that's why they're scared of me and other activists and dissidents, because we're echoing the voice of iranian people who say no to islamic republic. >> what is it that you need -- i'm afraid to ask you this because i don't want to put you in more harm, but what is it that you need to tip the scales and get western leaders to do more? >> first of all, i remember when you were like inviting me many times, i was angry. but i have to thank the u.s. government right now because they took the lead to kick out the islamic republic from united

nations top women body. brilliant. actually, many european countries, now they changed their tone and they're trying to help us. they created a mechanism to actually do an open investigations about the massacre inside iran. these are fantastic. but i want the u.s. government now to take the lead because they put the revolutionary guards on the terrorist list. this is the time. biden administration can do a lot to convince the eu to designate the revolutionary guards as a terrorist organization. i mean, what they -- they're killing innocent people inside iran and outside iran. this is a terrorist regime. and i can -- you know, i want to use your platform to ask president biden, to meet him in person because look, i was the target of assassination plot, kidnapping plot, third attempt. who knows? i don't want president biden

when i got killed don't do anything. now i need you. >> we're still here. that's so -- that's so upsetting. i mean, this wasn't the first time, though. >> no. >> can you tell me, you know, without giving away anything you do to keep yourself and your extended family safe, your immediate nuclear family safe, how it's changed your life? >> my life is upside down. you know, it's not easy to, you know, watch over your shoulder every single day. but you know me. i'm not scared for my life at all. i'm ready to die if it can make awareness for the leaders of g7 to understand that this is the time that they have to get united. the way that the dictators are united. putin is sending drones -- sorry, khameini is descending drones to ukraine to kill innocent ukrainian. the islamic republic it s. a threat for people in the region-s a threat for democracy. so for me this is the most scary thing, that this is happening in

front of the eyes of free world. i'm not scared for my life. but i know that many women inside iran, they don't have any protection the way that i have. so i feel guilty to talk about myself. i want to get the attention of the rest of the world to people inside iran who want to get rid of gender apartheid regime. right now that i'm talking to you today, one young woman, 20 year old and her fiance, 21 year old, got arrested. received ten years prison sentence for dancing in public. can you believe that? >> it's so brutal. i want to ask our -- i want to ask you to stay. i want to ask our friend frank figliuzzi to join us. and i want to ask frank a couple things. one, if he's ever seen merrick garland that angry and that passionate. and two, exactly how this plot was foiled. so that's on the other side of a break. don't go anywhere.

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the message, when they shared with me, i got goose bump. one of the guy saying, it's going to be done tonight. i could have been killed. so thanks to the law enforcement, to the fbi that they protect me. i mean, i always say that, how beautiful that my country, iran, the government want to kill me, but my adopted country, the united states of america, they protect me to practice my freedom of speech, my rights. >> as it should be. frank, can you work me back from friday and tell me what would have gone on leading up to a dozen law enforcement agents telling masih she was the target of an assassination attempt. >> we've got to let this play out. the indictment is filled with a level of detail that you don't usually see in such cases, so that tells me that they have

been developing this, they gathered information. they may even have sources, may even have technical sources. i don't know, but the level of detail is impressive. but i have to tell you, from my readings and understanding, this seems to have been prevented -- thankfully prevent because a police officer pulled a car over for a traffic violation and found inside that car a rifle, two filled magazines, 66 additional rounds of ammunition, and $1,100 in cash. the question that remains is, did that start the case that police officers discovery on what could have been a routine traffic stop? don't assume that it was a routine traffic stop. it would not be unusual for this case, when i see this level of detail, impressive detail and facts, and then i see, well, you know, a police officer pulled a car over and prevented this, you

know, this thing from happening or something. there's some disparity there, right? and it would not be the first time in a sensitive operation the fbi has asked for a traffic stop in order to intervene in something and discover what's in the car. so whatever it is, it's impressive. but some takeaways here. number one, the fbi is in this kind of battle every single day. if you think this is the stuff of movies, a foreign hit team assembled to assassinate someone on u.s. soil, it is not. it does happen. we do have adversaries. we must guard our freedoms here like they're threatened, because they are threatened, and no one knows that more than ms. alignjah. secondly, if you think iran is incapable of doing something like this, i'm here to tell you they are quite capable. they can get it done.

don't forget, iran is a state sponsor of terrorism in the form of hezbollah. they are capable of doing damage on u.s. soil, and they've tried it before. >> exactly. >> this time they did an end around with a criminal organization so they would have plausible deniability, so let's stay tuned to further lynchages between this and the iranian government. >> frank, quickly -- i guess you answered this already, but how did any participant in this plot get into this country? >> we'll need to know whether there's permanent residency, whether people are on tourist visas. all that will come out. we see a citizen of the czech republic here. we see an iranian born person here. all this will come out. but i have to point out that this didn't start with an attempt to kill ms. alignjah, but started early we are an

attempt to kidnap her that was unsuccessful, and apparently the powers that be decided, forget the kidnapping, we're going to go to a murder plot and outsource it to a european criminal organization. so much more that come on this, but the bottom line is we're in a battle to safeguard our freedoms, and we had a former president, by the way, who called journalists the enemy of the state. so if you think it can't turn to here, it can turn to here if we don't safeguard our freedoms. >> in the break you told me something beautiful about your neighborhood and your neighbors. you want to share that in. >> yes. this is what i love about america. my neighbors send me text message and saying that we never regret that you were part of this neighborhood. we're all together in this battle, in this fight, and you win, we will win. you know, i want republicans, democrats to be like my neighbors. because i have some people in my

neighborhood, they support biden. some of them support trump. but when it comes to national security, they're all together. this should be a bipartisan issue. >> should be. >> yeah, because iranian regime hates america. >> all of us. >> yeah. if they want to kill you they never ask if you're republican, democrats, left, liberal. that's why i strongly believe america should protect democracy. >> i agree with you. i'm glad you're safe. >> thank you so much. >> i want to you stay safe, and let's keep having this conversation. frank, thank you for helping us understand this plot. it was so shocking for me when the press conference took place, and we didn't know who the target was at first. when i learned it was you, i'm just so thankful you were safe. >> thank you so much for having me. i'm sure i'm going invite you in iran very soon. free iran. >> i can't wait. quick break for us. we'll be right back. for us we'll be right back.

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. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber start right now. >> welcome to "the beat." i'm ari melber. all eyes are on washington as newly elected speaker mccarthy heads to the white house this week to meet with president biden. it's a shift to governing a negotiation after the chaotic start to his sponsorship which sets the table on how mccarthy leads right now, and whether he can keep this narrow majority in line, key to any leverage he does claim in this week's white house meeting will be how h