his post. preview? >> how closely they think they'll work together on the debt limit. a lot of this is background noise. investigations, the other hearings, unlikely prospect for bipartisan legislation. the big thing on the agenda is the debt limit, whether the government will continue to pay its bills. a failure to do that would send shockwaves through the markets. this is the hardest thing kevin mccarthy will have to do as speaker. he has a tight majority. we'll see how he plans on working with president biden. >> some of the republicans aren't going to vote for a debt ceiling increase. thorny times ahead. nicholas johnston, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. mr. president, did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> a flat denial from then president trump back in 2018 when asked if he knew about hush

money payments to stormy daniels. remember that? now, that could come back to haunt him. his former attorney and fixer, michael cohen, says trump can't hide from the paper trail. calling the new grand jury convened by the manhattan d.a. his biggest legal threat yet. and there are many. meanwhile, the former president is suing journalist bob woodward for $50 million. we'll explain what that is all about. plus, more fallout and firings in the aftermath of tyre nichols' death. we'll go live to memphis for the latest in that case. for the second time in three years, lawmakers on capitol hill are talking about police reform following a high-profile murder case involving officers. we'll look at whether these discussions have a real chance at being successful. and president joe biden announces a major policy shift on covid in response to strong

opposition from house republicans. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, january 31st. joe will be back tomorrow. you have willie and me. along with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. and pulitzer prize-winning columnist at "the washington post", eugene robinson. willie, our top story, believe it or not, stormy daniels back in the news. >> yeah, real flashback here. as donald trump ramps up his latest run for the white house, he is now facing another legal challenge. a grand jury has been convened in the case of hush money payments made to adult film star stormy daniels by trump in 2016. that is according to two sources familiar with the situation, first reported by "the new york times." the manhattan district attorney alvin brag started presenting evidence to a grand jury yesterday, centering on a $130,000 payment to daniels. a spokeswoman for the manhattan d.a. and attorney for the former

president both declined comment to us on this matter. former trump attorney, michael cohen, you'll remember, went to federal prison for his role in the hush money payments. he says he met with prosecutors in recent weeks and may be asked to appear before the grand jury. >> donald will ultimately be held accountable for this stormy daniel payment. this investigation that was to be brought by alvin breg's office is the most detrimental to him, his freedom, livelihood, business, et cetera, because it's the easiest to prove. the checks are the checks. we know a lot. there's recordings. the first three-month payment was made by donald trump. i gave those to the house oversight committee who posted them and so on. so he's not in the same position where he can deny or lie the way that he will in some of the other matters.

>> former president trump issued a statement on his social media platform yesterday, responding to the reports of a grand jury, calling it a continuation of a witch hunt against him. trump has denied having an affair with daniels, but he acknowledged he repaid cohen the coincidental sum of $130,000. let's bring in lecturer in law at colombia law school, former criminal defense attorney. caroline, good to see you this morning. michael cohen not the best character at the center of your case. you can convict me if i'm wrong. he is convicted in this matter, as well. but what is the legal exposure at this point for donald trump? are you surprised that brag came to this point of a grand jury after seeming to walk away from it not long ago? >> exactly right. everybody is asking the question, why not? we're talking about conduct that occurred in 2016/2017. michael cohen has already pleaded guilty to crimes of that

conduct, served his prison time. cy vance, before brag, opened a sprawling investigation, including the hush money payments, as well as some other financial crimes. when alvin took over, two officials resigned because they felt like bragg didn't have the an tide to move forward. he lost his desire to prosecute trump on an individual basis. fast forward. bragg has two wins under his belt against trump. criminal wins against weisselberg. this case has been referred to as the zombie theory because it just won't die. apparently, it's been resurrected. it's coming back to life. >> take us inside one of your

entry-level law classes and explain what it means, that this has moved to a grand jury phase. how significant is that? >> pretty significant. the old saying goes, you can indict a ham sandwich. however, given the political implications of this, this is likely a special grand jury seated. it is seated for longer than a regular grand jury, in panel to look at more complex financial crimes. i don't think bragg would impanel such a jury and present all this evidence if he weren't going to indict and if he didn't feel like he could get a win. >> mika? >> caroline, i'm just curious, have you ever seen -- and maybe the answer is yes -- have you ever seen an individual in history with so many different legal challenges weighing him down, whether it be to do with the finances of his own company, rape charges against him, the georgia investigation, the big lie, the two -- the january 6th

investigation, special counsel. i mean, this is a pretty long list. so that's number one. i mean, how many legal challenges can one person face without drowning in them? number two, this one seems like so far back in time. it seems smaller in scope. could this lead to real consequences? >> that's right, mika. you know, the question is, which one is going to stick? we thought it'd be the documents case. that's been obliterated. this one looks like it is sort of coming up. you're right, finance crimes of this nature are not sort of the crime of the century. falsification of documents in new york is a low-level offense. however, prosecutors can kick it up to a felony offense if they can show that the falsification of the records was done in the pursuit of violating a second new york state law, a second crime. that law has been untested. it's akin to what michael cohen

pleaded guilty to on a federal level in a campaign finance law violation. the misdocumentation and giving a campaign contribution over the legal limit. >> were that to happen, and we're obviously projecting here, but were there to be an indictment and that charge be leveled at former president trump, what sort of penalty could be attached if we get a conviction? >> so if they can do both charges, and it is kicked up from a misdemeanor to felony, it is punishable by up to four years in prison. doesn't need prison time, but he could go to jail in four times. >> mika? >> gene, i want you to chime in on this becauses that i was try put into perspective as we talk about the danger of donald trump. these are the incredible saga dramas of his presidency that have just blown past us. i mean, if any other person

would have gone down in the moment, it would have been just inappropriate. why don't we start with that? >> absolutely. i mean, these are the dramas of donald trump's life, right? i wonder if you picked a random week in donald trump's life, you wouldn't find some prosecutable crime. paying hush money, fiddling the taxes, doing something. this is kind of business as usual for donald trump. i guess it does seem like this was a long time ago. stormy daniels. i realize there is legal jeopardy for the president here. if i were donald trump or his legal team, i think i'd probably be a little more focused on the georgia potential prosecution for trying to overturn the election and defraud the people of georgia and take away their voice in the presidential

election by finding 11,000 extra votes. i would be looking at the special counsel who has a host of issues to look into. so, you know, this is the way it happens, i guess, sometimes. it's these little sleeper things, the zombie cases that won't die. but i don't think this is -- i think michael cohen is wrong. i don't think this is the direst threat to donald trump. i think those other cases present much more of a threat to the former president. >> let's bring in one of the reporters who first broke this story. senior writer on the metro staff of "the new york times." william, thank you for being here. appreciate it. talk us through a little bit about alvin bragg's thinking according to your reporting and what else he learned, perhaps, that led him to impanel this grand jury. >> well, i can't really tell you about his thinking because i'm not inside his head, but, you know, the investigation he

inherited from cy vance was focused, basically, on donald trump's business practices, on inflating the evaluation of his assets. he chose not to go forward with that. they pursued the case against trump's cfo, allen weisselberg and the companies. companies were convicted. now, they find themselves going forward with the hush money case. so it's a simpler case than the valuations, and it's something that, as was eluded to before, they've come back to and dropped a number of times along the way. so it's hard to say what the thinking is, but it certainly looks like they are moving closer to bringing charges. it's, you know, the next step. >> one of the flashback names we got in your piece was that of david pecker, the former publisher of "the national

inquirer," that was seen going into the building in lower manhattan where the grand jury is seated. remind our viewers his role in this and why he might be an important player. >> well, i think mr. pecker and a few other people are witnesses because they're part of the arc of the story that precedes the actual payment of $130,000 to stormy daniels. then the subsequent reimbursement of that money and some additional funds to michael cohen. pecker was the publisher of "the national inquirer" who had been engaged in what has come to be known, i guess, as catch and kill. meaning, purchase or obtain stories and then -- negative stories about someone -- in this instance, obviously, donald trump -- and then actually not publish them. hence the kill part. so that arc in advance of the

payment includes pecker, the editor of "the national inquirer," hope hicks, some others who -- and the chronology is laid out in the search warrant affidavits, that a judge approved to actually search michael cohen's office back in, i guess that was april of 2018. but that chronology of calls and texts working toward figuring out who was going to pay and how is sort of the -- that story arc that i referred to. >> john, the story michael cohen pled to was he funneled the $130,000 from donald trump, through michael cohen, through the campaign, over to david pecker and "the national inquirer" to pay off stormy daniels by her story and not publish it, so it'd go away around the time of the election in 2016. >> right. trump then reimbursed michael cohen for $130,000 but never said as to what. he's denied having this affair in the first place. great to see you.

this has been such a source of frustration, that there has not been a charge connected to donald trump. he was individual one all along when cohen was indicted and convicted. to the point, it was eluded to earlier, two prosecutors walked off the job because of it. what changed? more than that, what is the prosecutors' sense now that it's actually happening? >> well, you know, i think -- i mean, i think you should interview them. but, you know, i think that this is a simpler case than the earlier case. you know, i would imagine those prosecutors, you know, who worked hard to try and put together a case would like to see donald trump held accountable, you know, regardless of who is sort of running the show. but, you know, i think there's a lot of things that were going on

behind the scenes. it was an unusual circumstance where you had to transition from one d.a. to the other in the middle of an extremely complex and long-running investigation. so there's a whole lot of different factors at play. but, you know, as has often been the case in the past, these circumstances so often tend to benefit mr. trump, or so far. >> caroline, if you look at this case, michael cohen already pled guilty to this story that we're hearing. >> yeah. >> he served more than a year in prison, some more time in home confinement. so this was sort of, you know, adjudicated a little bit. so how do you see this playing out? do you think we're going to see the indictment and perhaps the conviction eventually of someone besides michael cohen? >> i learned a long time ago not

to name predictions. >> where does it go from here anyway? >> the case is essentially made for them, at least with the documentation, right? financial crimes, you know, money doesn't lie, following the money. here, and as you noted, what is sort of extraordinary about this case, is that in the southern district's prosecution of michael cohen, as you noted, he sat there in open court and allocuted that he made these payments at the behest of individual one, who people are colloquially calling an unindicted co-conspirator. you have a paper trail there and the theory of the case that's already been in a federal prosecution. it's already on paper. >> there's a check for $130,000. >> correct. >> to stormy daniels. donald trump says, i was just giving michael cohen $130,000 for legal fees. >> yeah. >> happened to be the same number. >> exactly. >> caroline, always good to see you. senior writer, william k.

rashbaum, thank you for your reporting. two more officers relieved of duties. two additional officers were initially placed on leave the day after the traffic stop. one is confirmed to be officer preston hemphill. he was also part of the now defunct scorpion unit and used a taser on nichols. the police department would not answer questions yesterday about the senate officer. hemphill's lawyer confirmed video was on his body camera, and he was the third to arrive at the initial stop. but says the officer never went to the second scene where the beating took place. hemphill is cooperating with the investigation. the memphis fire department also fired more personnel as a result of the nichols case. two emts and a lieutenant, quote, violated numerous mfd policies and protocols.

the fire department statement said the investigation concluded that nichols was only treated for the initial reason the emts were called, having been pepper sprayed, and not the numerous other injuries he sustained. he died in the hospital three days later. an official cause of death has not been announced. nbc news attempts to reach out for comment but were not answered. joining us from memphis, news correspondent ellison barber with the very latest. ellison? >> reporter: mika, the memphis police department is saying that all seven of these officers were relieved of duty the day after january 8th, the day after this detainment, beating, and death, ultimately, of tyre nichols took place on january 7th. but we didn't have any information, at least publicly, about the two officers, number six and number seven that we just learned about in the last 24 hours. the sixth officer relieved of

duty, officer preston hemphill, his attorney says that the first body camera footage that was released on friday evening, that was from his camera. in terms of why we're just getting these names right now, a spokesperson for the memphis police department is saying that internal affairs investigators were prioritizing interviewing officers and witnesses related to the second scene first, where the most egregious aspects of the incident occurred. they say that the five officers that we initially learned about who were terminated and are facing criminal charges are the officers that were directly involved in the first and second scene where tyre nichols was, in their words, physically abused and suffered injuries. quote, there are numerous charges still developing that are impending. we expect the next phase of personnel actions in the coming days. the fact that we don't know this seventh officer's name and that

we have only recently learned about the name and the circumstances surrounding the sixth officer is something that is frustrating to community activists as well as the attorneys for tyre nichols' family. when we got the name of the officer yesterday, one of the first things those attorneys representing the nichols' family said was, why didn't we know about this name earlier? we've been asking for transparency from the memphis police department from the beginning. in their view, the fact they did not know who this officer was and he has not yet been fired shows, to them, they say, the memphis police department is not serious enough about being transparent as it relates to this case. interestingly, the name of that sixth officer really started to surface on social media first. local activists, as well as a local progressive outlet called the tennessee holler, they noticed the name of the sixth officer, preston hemphill, in an early affidavit, where it said in that that he had deployed his taser at the scene. they started pressuring, asking

questions, posting about this sixth officer, wondering why they didn't know, at least from the public information from memphis police department who this person was, why nothing, to their knowledge, had happened to this individual. then, ultimately, you had the series of events in the last 24 hours, where the memphis police department confirmed this sixth officer and now acknowledged an unnamed seventh officer that's also been relieved of duty. what we still don't know about the sixth and seventh officers are whether or not they have been relieved with or without pay. that's something that at a vigil last night, we heard community activists talking about wanting that information, demanding these officers, as well, be fired from their jobs. mika? >> ellison, great report. thank you very much. the d.a. even said yesterday they expect more charges. i will say, gene, it does seem -- and it must seem painfully slow to members of the community or to members of tyre's family -- but it appeared

they were acting as quickly and as transparency as they could, immediately firing the officers, looking at the video. you know, these things do take time. you have to do it right, finally at least, and more charges are coming at a pretty fast clip. and it is frightening to find out that five wasn't the number of cops that were attacking tyre. six, seven, eight? how many? >> how many? >> how many people does it take to beat an unarmed, innocent man to death? that's going to be the question. and you're writing about this, and it is just policing overall that needs to be done with the community, not to it. >> definitely right. this was certainly done to tyre nichols. this is -- and this is outrageous. when you think that, yes, we

don't know how many officers ganged up on and brutalized and ultimately killed this man who was pulled over in a traffic stop. this is -- this latest news about the officers who were at the initial scene, who have been relieved of duty, just tells us how rotten, how wrong this entire episode was from the beginning. and we still don't know exactly what it was that tyre nichols allegedly did that caused them to pull him over in the first place. >> nope. >> we have no idea. i mean, it certainly wasn't anything that warranted the kind of treatment he got. there's nothing that warrants this kind of treatment. it is -- there is something really rotten, not just in the s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. unit, i think,

which is now being disbanded, but something rotten in the memphis police department that we're going to have to get to the bottom of, that i hope federal officials, the justice department is looking at. i think, you know, there could be a pattern and practice sort of action by justice involved here. of course, there has to be an investigation. but if this is the way the memphis police department deals with the citizens it's supposed to protect, then this is rotten to the core. there needs to be dramatic and wholesale reform. >> well, as this case plays out, a delegation of white house officials will attend tyre nichols' funeral tomorrow. keisha lance bottoms, murray and lowe are confirmed to represent the administration there. nbc news learned the parents of tyre nichols have been invited to attend president biden's

state of the union address next tuesday. congressman and black caucus chair of nevada says they accepted the invitation. they also invited brandon tsay, the man who disarmed the monterey park shooter at a dance hall in california just last week. just minutes after the gunman killed 11 and injured 9 more at another dance hall. the representative of the district where the shooting took place said she invited tsay, and then an hour later, president biden asked him to be a guest. pulitzer prize-winning journalist bob woodward in a new case. whether there's merit to it. some want donald trump to disappear from politics. a guest argues republicans' main strategy appears to be hope he goes away. also ahead, the biden administration signaling a new chapter in the government's

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. just about half past the hour. live look at the white house. the lights are on, but the sun has yet to come up over washington. good morning, everyone. president biden says his administration will end the national emergencies that have been declared for covid-19. he'll do so on may 11th, more than three years after they were enacted. the announcement comes after the white house expressed strong opposition to house republicans' plans aiming to immediately end

the emergency declarations. according to the administration, the abrupt end to the emergencies would, quote, create wide-ranging chaos and uncertainty throughout the health care system. this comes as congress has failed for months to pass a white house request for an additional$22.5 billion in covid response funding. meanwhile, the u.s. government may have issued more than $5 billion in potentially fraudulent pandemic-related loans. that's according to the federal watchdog overseeing coronavirus relief spending. the pandemic response accountability committee says more than 69,000 questionable social security numbers may have been used in the successful federal emergency loan applications. the suspected applications targeted two of the government's most generous emergency initiatives, the paycheck protection program and the economic injury disaster loan. the announcement comes as the

republican-controlled house committee and oversight and accountability is set to hold its first public hearing tomorrow, quote, to investigate rampant waste of taxpayer dollars in covid relief programs. willie, there's a lot of folks who took advantage of those programs. >> yeah, that's going to be a big, sprawling investigation. we'll keep an eye on it. some news from the world of sports. it helps explain the nfc championship game on sunday. 49ers quarterback brock purdy reportedly has a torn ligament in his throwing elbow. the rookie injured on the first drive of sunday's nfc championship game loss to the philadelphia eagles. he is expected to be sidelined for at least six months. possibly into the beginning of next season depending on whether he needs surgery to repair or even to reconstruct the injured elbow. the latest quarterback injury raises more uncertainty for san francisco at the position. you'll remember, the niners week one starter trey lance went down with a season-ending ankle injury. week two, required follow-up

injury. garoppolo replaced lance but broke his foot in week 13. he will be a free agent in march. purdy and lance right now the only quarterbacks the 49ers have under contracts next season. >> gosh. >> john, we were just talking, it was a shame. that's a good 49ers team. that game effectively was over when purdy gets injured on the first drive. josh johnson, the fourth quarterback, if you go through the list we laid out, tried to get something done. they weren't going to beat the eagles. >> no, the 49ers, the second straight afc championship game loss. they were a lot of people's pick to win the super bowl. brock purdy, a wonderful story. the last pick of last year's draft, mr. irrelevant, and had been undefeated to this point. he was hit. he was injured. they brought in johnson, who was injured himself. purdy had to come in and couldn't throw the ball. >> had to hand it off. >> it was a miserable game. a lot of drama in the afc game. miserable nfc game. it is a shame. it's called into questions that the nfl team should have three active quarterbacks on the roster for a playoff game.

willie, i'll give you a prediction. go on record right now. your week one starting quarterback for san francisco 49ers next year, thomas edward patrick brady jr. >> it's on the board. >> he is a hometown guy for the 49ers, he was a season ticket holder. rmors he was looking at them last year. one season. let purdy or lance learn under him. >> i've been hearing that the last couple days myself. >> from me. >> yeah, from you and others, as well. we'll see. as we approach one year of russia's war in ukraine, acclaimed miacclaim ed filmmaker joins us to talk about the clash of presidents. plus, the man who helped george santos win a seat in congress. "morning joe" is coming right back. congress "morning joe" is coming right back of delicious subs. like #8 the great garlic - rotisserie style chicken, bacon and garlic aioli.

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i screwed up. the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck.

i'm sorry. i have spoken to constituents largely, and i've been fielding calls and answers this whole time. >> are any concerned about the accusations that came out in the media about -- >> the media does one good thing, you like blowing stories that are not there up. you also use word salads to make sure you confuse the constituents and the american people. >> irony is dead. george santos accusing others of word salad. that was congressman george santos blaming the media for his lies about his education, resume, religious back ground and family, some of which he confessed to. new polling from sienna college shows 78% of voters from congressman santos' district want him to resign from office. 78%, that includes 89% of democrats and 72% of independents and, yes, 71% of

republicans want him gone. joining us now, editor at "the new yorker" and author of "meet the man who brought you george santos." good morning. how did this guy get elected, people are wondering, and a part of the story is chris grant. who is he? >> grant is the operative that was the general consultant for the campaign. he kind of helped run the campaign, guided the campaign in many ways, and helped george santos win. he runs big dog strategies. he consults on a little more than a hundred republican campaigns, but he was the lead operative, the guy who took over george santos' campaign after the previous consultants quick. >> we've had all this reporting that even people inside the campaign were aware of george santos' lies. some of them even suggested he drop out of the race because it was going to be ugly when they were revealed.

that was not the strategy of chris grant, i take it. how did he approach this campaign? >> there is an open question of how much they knew. there was this opposition research panel that they convened, and they have this packet of opposition research. we don't know how much they knew. his strategy, essentially, was to run on the issues. if you look at george santos, like, he gave a couple speeches on the floor of congress now, he's not very exciting, other than all the fantastical lies. you take that away, and there's a lot to take away. if you take it away, he's a little dull. and i think, in some ways, that helped. they ran on the issues. they ran on inflation and crime. that was basically it. in a race when maybe a lot of voters weren't paying a ton of attention, it wasn't a presidential year, that was enough. he won by eight points, so it wasn't like he squeaked by. >> this chris grant, co-founder of big dog strategies, how did he and santos get linked up?

grant had a wide resume, a lot of other candidates. have there been any others who had similar embellishments or even in the ballpark of santos? is this a pattern we're seeing? >> i wouldn't say it is necessarily a pattern. there are a lot of candidates that he represents, and they've been in that world. you need a political operative, you go to someone like big dog. he's worked on campaigns and had a good track record. another candidate of his, steve watkins, a proto santos, not quite as imaginative maybe. he won a race in kansas for congress. it later emerged that he had embellished parts of his story. he said he was a hero on mt. everest, he saved people after the earthquake there. at least, unlike santos, he was close to mt. everest, close to base camp. he didn't save anyone. it was unclear if he lived in the district. he had property in alaska. it was unclear if he had property in kansas. his address was a ups store.

i think when you're a political operative, you don't always choose your candidates. the question that interested me is, when do you say no? do you cut bait? the answer for him was no, you stay the course and try to win. >> gene, obviously, one of the lessons so many of these candidates learned from donald trump is, when there's scandal, when there are lies, put your head down and plow through them. >> exactly. that's what trump did, and he's still standing. although, we don't know for how long, but he is still standing. zach, my question is whether santo people knew anything about the money that went into the campaign. the phantom $700,000 lent by santos, not lent by santos, apparently. where was the money coming from, and what was his window on that or involvement in that?

>> that's a good question. i don't know for sure. what we do know is that when you're a general consultant for a campaign, one of the things you're overseeing is the budget. maybe the most important thing you're overseeing is the budget. on the other campaign, they decided their budget did not include enough money for thorough opposition research. you could see how important managing that money is. for chris grant, did he know where the money was coming from? that's unclear. we do know that he was one of the people in charge of determining the money, allocating the money, planning for what money was coming in. >> the piece is "meet the man who brought you george santos." worth your read at "the new yorker." zach, thanks for being on. >> thanks for having me. we'll look at headlines across the country. plus, we'll be joined by a former prosecutor who worked for the southern district of new york for more insight on the grand jury just convened in the trump hush money case. "morning joe" is coming right

back.

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♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ coming in with a live look at new york on a rainy, cloudy tuesday morning. welcome back to "morning joe." 48 past the hour. it is time to take a look at the morning papers, see what's making headlines across the country. "the ledger inquirer" leads with georgia prosecutors indicating they will likely seek criminal charges against former president donald trump and his allies. it's all part of an election subversion investigation. the fulton county district attorney is trying to block the release of a special grand jury report, arguing a decision is coming soon is and that publicizing the report could jeopardize the rights of, quote, future defendants. in mississippi, "the sun herald" reports abortion activists are trying to stop a lawsuit filed

by an out of state organization. at issue is the state's trigger law that bans most abortions after roe v. wade was overturned last summer. a group of anti-abortion physicians say the law might not be able to take effect unless a 1998 high court ruling that recognized the right to abortion under the mississippi constitution is also overturned. abortion activists say the organization has, quote, no practical stake in this case. and the "republican herald" in pennsylvania had a front page feature on the amount of time students lost during the height of the pandemic. a new global analysis shows children missed about a third of the school year, leading to learning deficits. that time has still not been made up. researchers believe this has worsened existing racial and wealth disparities. not to mention, adding on here myself, the social issues and

kids coming out of the pandemic still really recovering from being in isolation. coming up, former president trump doubles down on siding with vladimir putin over intelligence agencies. we'll tell you what he said this time. plus, a preview of president biden's trip today to new york city, where he will tout funding for two new train tunnels connecting manhattan and new jersey. "morning joe" will be right back. research shows people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. did you know that liberty mutual custo— ♪liberty mutual♪ ♪ only pay for what you need♪ ♪only pay for what you need♪

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we need to get ready for a spirited contest. why trump? you mentioned, like desantis, if you try to tell me desantis isn't a good governor in florida, i'm not going to listen to you. if you try to tell me mike pompeo is not qualified to be president, i'm not going to listen to you because i think he is. i am for trump, not because of the flaws of anybody else.

i'm for donald trump because i know what i'm going to get. we need somebody that, on day one, can get this country back on track. that can secure our border and bring order out of chaos. somebody the russians and the chinese fear. somebody that can take the fight to the terrorists. the abraham accord is the result of donald trump pressing the arabs and israelis. he is the best solution to the problems we face, not because of the flaws of others but because of what i know he can do. i'm telling your listeners right now, when you hear i like trump policies but i'm ready for somebody new, there are no trump policies without donald trump. >> senator lindsey graham saying he is all in on former president donald trump in 2024 because you know what you're going to get. i think that's the point, lindsey. you do know what you're going to get. i mean, you can try and make the list look positive, but i would add to it, cozying up to

vladimir putin and kim jong-un, an obsession with fascists, with dictators, with strongmen. oh, someone who -- we would get someone who would actually try and shake down a foreign leader for dirt on a political rival. not at all a danger to our national security at all. we'd get someone who really understands the optics of being an empathetic president. he would throw paper towels at hurricane victims. i don't even remember what was on the back of melania's jacket when she went to the border to, quote, visit with migrants, but it kind of summed up the entire trump presidency. let alone, jonathan lemire, author of "the big lie," all the different legal challenges this former president appears to be running from as he campaigns to be president again. >> yeah, there's a lot that he's facing right now. earlier, we were discussing what was happening in new york. we know georgia, as well, looms.

there's the investigation into january 6th and, of course, the classified documents. the former president yesterday also did something that was sort of unexpected and out of the blue. he defended his infamous comments in 2018 where, at the helsinki summit -- >> who asked that question? >> a third rate reporter. i've always fancied myself a second rate reporter. >> that's where you are. >> two and a half. >> i'll do my best. yes, this was the summit with helsinki. i asked the then president who he trusted over the matters of 2016 election interference. the u.s. intelligence agencies who say russia interfered or putin, who claims they didn't. at the time, he sided with moscow. yesterday, seemingly out of the blue, he doubled down on that and suggested that the intelligence agencies and the fbi were all corrupt and, therefore, he was better off in trusting vladimir putin. he deemed me a third rate reporter and the intelligence community low-lives.

>> in this new context, since you asked that question in helsinki, vladimir putin launched a war killing civilians in ukraine. he still, donald trump says, i choose putin over the intelligence agencies. mike barnicle, as we listen to lindsey graham there, i'd like to repeat a quote from january 6th, 2021. senator graham on the floor of the senate. quote, all i can say is count me out. enough is enough. he was walking away from donald trump that day. >> if lindsey graham ever sat down with a shrink for 15 minutes, the shrink would put him in handcuffs and keep him there for 15 years. he has a phobia of strongmen. attaching himself to john mccain and now to trump for life, apparently. he is a sad man. >> i want to bring in bbc's katty kay. there's more news about donald trump. i mean, for republicans choosing their nominee, you have so many

different legal angles bringing this man down. classified documents that he took to mar-a-lago and defied subpoenas and now have been taken from mar-a-lago, that he took there and wouldn't give back. there's the january 6th insurrection, a number of different legal angles pointing directly at donald trump. there's georgia. there's a rape lawsuit against donald trump. now, there's stormy daniels. i mean, really? don't you think the republicans would want someone like a resh face who isn't completely overwhelmed with legal drama? by the way, as he ramps up, katty, his latest run for the white house, he is now facing this stormy daniels situation. a grand jury has been convened in the case of hush money payments made out to adult film star stormy daniels by trump back in 2016. that's according to two sources familiar with the situation,

confirming the development to nbc news and first reported by "new york times." "the new york times" reports alvin bragg started presenting evidence to a grand jury yesterday, centering on that $130,000 payment to stormy daniels. a spokeswoman for the manhattan d.a. and an attorney for the former president both declined to comment on the matter. former president trump himself issued a statement on his social media platform yesterday after talking about jonathan lemire. he responded to the reports of the grand jury, calling it a continuation of the witch hunt against him. trump has denied having an affair with daniels, but he acknowledged that he did repay michael cohen $130,000. so we're back where it all began, katty kay. how is this looking for the united states of america if this guy is our nominee? >> yeah, i guess everyone is having ptsd, going back to the stormy daniels days. you're right, i mean, the thing

about donald trump is it's almost impossible to keep track of all of the different legal suits he's potentially facing. you just think you've got a handle on them, then we go back and an old one is resurrected. that seems to be at the forefront again. it still seems to me the mar-a-lago one would be the clearest case for prosecutors. yes, it's been muddied by the documents -- >> or georgia. >> or georgia. but the documents found in biden's possession and mike pence's possession. but the legal facts of the mar-a-lago case seem pretty clear, according to the prosecutors that i speak to. i thought your conversation with caroline earlier in the show was interesting about stormy daniels, not quite knowing where this leads after michael cohen already served his time. it is something they are still looking at. talking to republicans in this country, and "the new york times" reporting on this we'll talk about later, it's clear that there are a very many republicans in positions of influence who would much rather anyone than donald trump, precisely because of this drama.

what'd we say when we came out of the trump presidency in 2020, that the country was oe saying frequently, and you, mika, that it is part of the exhaustion of the legal suits. you still have the system where, if donald trump were to manage to maintain 30% of the republican primary voters who are continuously loyal to him and there were five or six other candidates, he could split the remaining vote and end up like he did in 2016 with the nomination. i don't think it is impossible. look how the system works. if there are enough other candidates there, it is potentially possible for him to do it again. as i found traveling around the country, his supporters, whatever the lawsuits, however many lawsuits there are, whatever the findings of the january 6th investigation, they're sticking by him. >> let's bring into the conversation elie honig. he worked for eight years as an

aassistant u.s. attorney for new york. his book, "powerful people, how they get away with it." good to have you on this side of the street. congratulations on the book. it's as you timed it to the news this morning. >> pure luck. >> we'll talk about the book in a moment, but specifically about this case. the d.a., alvin bragg, impaneled a grand jury. given everything you know about this case, having worked down there, what does this tell you, the news this morning? >> this story has come roaring back to life. it is interesting. now the d.a., the state level prosecutor here in manhattan, is reviving this and is going to put it in front of a grand jury which, of course, has the power the indict. we'll see whether the d.a., alvin, who i used to work with, by the way, will ask them for an indictment. what i found interesting is the reporting i do for this book focuses on, two years ago, the feds, the southern district of new york, my former office, had to decide, are we going to try to indict donald trump? they couldn't indict him while he was president, given longstanding doj policy. came january 2021, he is about

to leave office. what i reported for the first time in this book is that the federal prosecutors convened a series of meetings in-house, where they said, "do we do this or not?" we know the bottom line they reached was no. what i found really interesting is it was not because of the evidence. the prosecutorial team at the southern district of new york felt they had enough evidence to indict donald trump for his role in the hush money payments. now, some on the team felt the evidence was enough to charge close to the line, others felt it was more than sufficient. ultimately, the feds held off because they felt there was political issues with bringing an indictment. plus, all the other incidents, january 6th, ukraine, mueller, would supersede them. if we're talking about the strength of the evidence when alvin's former office, the da's former office and my former office looked at it, they thought the evidence was enough. whether it carries over, we'll see. >> there was also tension

between the department of justice and the southern district. >> yeah. >> how'd that play out? >> it is important to understand the ethic at the southern district. we are famously headstrong, maybe a wee bit arrogant, depending who you ask. the southern district prides itself on its independence from what we call main justice, meaning the bosses in doj and washington, d.c. when the southern district was getting ready to indict michael cohen, they put together an indictment. now, they couldn't indict trump at the time, in 2018, but in the indictment, the southern district wanted to lay out chapter and verse on donald trump. they felt like, we need to tell the public what this person did. well, the bosses at main justice got wind of this and said, absolutely not. that kicked off a heated back and forth. >> which bosses are we talking about? who sent that directive down? >> sure. so the main contact person was ed o'callaghan, another southern district alum, who basically told the southern district, we are not going to put out an indictment that lays out all

this detail on somebody who cannot be indicted and cannot defend himself. if it sounds familiar, similar to robert mueller's rational. there was an intense back and forth. ultimately, as much as the southern district is independent, we are not anarchists. we are part of the department of justice. doj's will won out. as a result, we have this really sanitized indictment. the michael cohen indictment mentions individual one, and i have the story, by the way, of how he became individual one and not co-conspirator one, which was considered at some point. what we ended up with was this indictment that was entirely sanitized as to donald trump. >> so the politics of this is that it's a president, sitting president, then a past president. they feel it'd set off a firestorm to indict. the manhattan's d.a. office walked away. what changed for them? >> great question. the manhattan d.a. did walk away from this and the other financial cases for a time period. if we look carefully at what the d.a. said, he never actually

said we're out, right? he had the couple prosecutors who resigned because they disagreed. he said we're continuing. he didn't feel they had enough. the x-factor, in my view, is michael cohen. i'm friends with michael cohen, so take that for what it is worth. the southern district of new york rejected michael cohen. in his sentencing letter, and i said this to his face, they said, we do not believe michael cohen has been fully forthcoming. the way it works at the southern district and all of doj is, you can't sign as a cooperator unless you fully believe that person. now, maybe the d.a. now is assessing michael cohen differently. maybe they think he is more credible. maybe they've just reached a different assessment. but if he were to flip fully, and he's eager to cooperate. he makes no secret about it. that could change the calculus. >> so you have mountains of evidence in multiple cases involving donald j. trump. you have mountains of evidence about obstruction of justice. you have mountains of evidence about partial payments, full

payments to people to keep him out of the limelight, all sorts of things. you also have a trite phrase that is uttered in washington and in the southern district and by federal prosecutors everywhere. it is that no person is above the law. >> sure. >> why hasn't donald j. trump been indicted? >> great summary of the last chapter of my book. i'm critical of prosecutors, mike. i was a prosecutor, but it is fair game to criticize them. one of the critiques i make is exactly that. for all the evidence of all the crimes donald trump committed, and i have a chapter saying this is what an indictment could have and should have looked like, every prosecutor who looked at this backed down for one reason or another. that could change. we have fulton county, in particular, seems like they're moving toward an indictment. we don't know what doj is going to do. the problem, i note in the book, is too many time passed. two plus years out from january 6th and more from the prior

incidents. time and speed really matter. i mean, we work at a frenetic pace at the southern district of new york because we know, you have to get your indictment in quickly. the farther you are away from the actions and the closer you are to the next election in this case, the harder it'll be to take indictment to conviction. >> aren't these cases so incredibly consequential that it might need to take more time because of just how consequential the outcome could be if there are charges? >> i understand that point, mika, and i've heard a lot of people make it over the years. i think that it's just been simply too long for merrick garland now. yes, you want to make sure that you have everything in place, but we're two plus years out now. i have seen doj. we've all seen doj move with remarkable speed. my criticism of merrick garland is that he just never focused at

the top when he could have. merrick garland always says, well, we start at the bottom and build up and up and up. you don't have to do it that way. there's no reason merrick garland couldn't have gotten to, say, cassidy hutchinson or mark short in late 2021. he was beaten to the punch by the january 6th committee. yes, he's moving slow, but i think it is fair to say speed matters. at this point, he is moving too slowly. i think that's going to compromise his ability to make this case someday. >> all right. now, the former president is suing bob woodward, speaking of cases, claiming he never gave his consent to release audio recordings of their interviews. woodward interviewed trump 20 times from 2019 to july 2020 for his book, "rage." the conversations were released in october as an audiobook entitled "the trump tapes." the former president released a statement saying he only agreed for the recordings to be used, quote, in the written word. he also claims that woodward and

the publisher, simon and schuster, are trying to profit off of his voice. the suit seeks nearly $50 million in damages. both responded in a joint statement, writing in part, former president trump's lawsuit is without merit, and we will aggressively defend against it. all of these interviews were on the record and recorded with president trump's knowledge and agreement. donald trump has a long history of filing outlandish lawsuits. two weeks ago, a judge in florida ordered trump and his lawyer to pay nearly $1 million in fines for what the judge called a frivolous suit. as "the new york times" reports, trump was trying to suit nearly a dozen people whom he sees as his political enemies, including hillary clinton and former fbi director james comey. a day after that ruling, trump dropped a federal lawsuit against new york attorney general letitia james, a case that his advisers had warned him

against. the same judge that fined him was also supposed to preside over that case. back in december, he brought a defamation suit against the pulitzer prize board for awarding "the new york times" and "the washington post" pulitzers for their coverage of russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. and in october, trump sued cnn, seeking $475 million in damages for defamation, claiming the network took part in a, quote, campaign of libel and slander because the network feared he would again run for president. elie, here is my question. how many legal actions against trump are in play right now? there is the rape allegation, right? what do we got here? we have georgia. that one is serious. that one -- >> yeah. >> -- could really go somewhere. we've got january 6th. is it one or two investigations surrounding january 6th and the

big lie? >> well, i think there's two there. i think the georgia investigation is based on his effort to steal the election. plus, we know the special counsel for doj is looking at january 6th sort of writ large. >> okay. four. then the mar-a-lago documents. >> right. >> that's five. anything else? what am i missing? >> the manhattan d.a. investigation that we just talked about. >> that's six. >> sued by letitia james for fraud at the trump organization. >> anything else? >> let's see. this is -- what's the game that -- >> pop quiz. >> yeah. hold on. the trump organization was just convicted for tax fraud. i don't know if we count that. >> what just happened? >> oh. >> okay. >> i guess the game is over. go home with a parting gift. >> well done. >> i had more, too. >> let's pull out a little bit and talk about the book, "untouchables." it's not all about donald trump. we talk about powerful people, how they get away with their

crimes. harvey weinstein, bill cosby. most people say, they're rich. they have great lawyers, and that's why they win. you say there's a lot more to it. >> yeah, that's a small part of it. what i was able to do in this book was take my experience as a prosecutor, particularly of mafia cases. that's what i did at the southern district of new york. i kept seeing these parallels. that's a good example, willie. we all know rich, powerful people hire rich, powerful lawyers. i don't always think the more expensive lawyers are better at what they do. but a lesser known thing i used to see all the time is really savvy players will pay for lawyers for the other people around them, right, to make sure those people don't flip. i saw it all the time in my mob cases. where do we see it recently? cassidy hutchinson. she delivered devastating testimony against donald trump at the january 6th committee, but she wasn't able to do it until she got rid of her original lawyer, who was picked and paid for by a trump-affiliated entity. only once she broke free from that lawyer, and she's talked

about this in front of the committee, was she able to give full testimony. i can't tell you how many times i saw situations just like that. >> how much of this legal logjam do you think falls upon merrick garland? because he spent his life as a judge. you were a prosecutor. he was not a prosecutor. there's a difference in mentality, is there not? >> he was a prosecutor at doj before he was a judge. i'll say that for him. i am critical of merrick garland in this book. but i'll give him this, he has restored the department of justice's core fundamental values of, first of all, integrity. kind of sad to say that you have to praise an attorney general for not lying to the american public. after bill barr, subject of my first book, i think that was an important and necessary correction. i think merrick garland is simply not up for the task before him. look, it is an enormously difficult task. he's in a bit of a darned if you do, darned if you don't scenario. sometimes as a prosecutor, you just have to make the tough call and take the heat.

again, here we are two years out. who is -- let me pose this to you, who is the single most powerful person who has been charged two plus years out, anything to do with january 6th? i mean, oath keepers are important cases but they have no political power. forget about trump. no eastman, no clark, no rudy. nobody anywhere near an official position of power. mike, there's something to that. and i mean this maybe as a compliment, but he has a classic judicial demeanor. everything is very careful, very deliberate, very calm, but it's not always the best demeanor for a prosecutor. >> the new book is "untouchable: how powerful people get away with it." elie honig, great to have you with us. congrats on the book. >> appreciate it. >> mika? >> i'm still here counting. >> more? >> i've got mar-a-lago, manhattan d.a., stormy, rape, georgia, january 6th, two angles there. oh, by the way, just sort of on

that one, it seems really serious, the insurrection, like the attack on our capitol. because many have gone to jail for many years for what they did following donald trump's orders. for some, seditious conspiracy has actually stood as a charge, which is historic in itself. taxes. okay, i'm still counting on the legal battles that he's facing. now, we're going to add to the fact that he is suing a lot of people, too. this is something to consider whening of making this guy your nominee. he is in legal hell, drowning in legal battles. he is suing bob. add that to the list of people he is suing. that's a lot of law stuff happening there. donald, just something to think about. still ahead on "morning joe," new polling shows most republicans want to move on from donald trump. we'll dig into those new numbers from the bulwark. plus, a preview of president biden's trip to new york city

today. mike memoli joins us with that. and our next guest argues the united states is in desperate need of democracy renovation. we'll talk about the challenges america is facing, and what it would take for the country to pull together. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ today my friend you did it, you did it, you did it... ♪ good news! a new clinical study showed that centrum silver supports cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say... ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver.

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will be released today. the death has led to new safety precautions in the film industry. a signed plea agreement with david halls will be released, who oversaw safety on the set. republicans introduced a bill to allow residents to dairy a gun without a permit and eliminate training requirements for anyone who wants a permit. paul renner outlined the legislation, calling it a top priority. governor ron desantis has said he will sign it. if passed, florida would become the 26th state to allow residents to own guns without a permit. the bill does not address whether people could openly carry guns without a permit, which current state law does not allow. the failed republican candidate accused of paying four men to shoot at the homes of elected democratic lawmakers in new mexico has been indicted on 14 criminal charges. son solomon pena targeted

officials over the last two months after losing his bid for a statehouse seat. he claimed voter fraud in the election. never provided evidence. no one was injured in the shootings. pena will remain in jail as he awaits trial, mika. starting today, "the washington post" is launching a new year-long column, leading up to the presidential election, addressing the flaws in our current system of democracy. the first is entitled "living through a great pulling apart, can america pull together?" it reads, quote, our nation is in desperate need of democracy renovation. we need to bring this old house we all share up to date and fit for purpose in the 21st century. to some extent, our challenges are simply that our family is bigger now. systems are straining under the scale and complexity of our family's needs. but there's also the fact that

our house wasn't originally built for everyone. finally, there's the challenge that social media has blasted one of the original pillars of our constitution out from under us. geographic dispersal of the citizenry was supposed to mean that people had to go through elected representatives to get their views into the public sphere. but the internet and social media especially has shrunk the nation down to one crowded neighborhood. in a country made so small, we need to reimagine the very institutions of representative government. the great pulling apart, it turns out, has left us in a place where we can no longer govern ourselves, so as to steer toward solutions to some of our worst problems. democracy, then, is the work before us. joining us now, author of the new column, "washington post" contributing columnist, danielle allen, professor, political theorist and director for the center of ethics at harvard

university. i love this. your points are especially, i think, prevalent and important as it pertains to social media. the part that confuses me about that is that that's easily fixable, isn't it? >> good morning, mika. thanks so much for having me. and i'm not surprised that you went straight to social media. it causes us all so much anxiety right now. i think it's just a real brew. we're swimming in misinformation or plain too much information. i don't think it is an impossible fix, but i'm not sure it is exactly easy. when the constitution was designed, it was literally the case that people like madison expected that the very breadth of the citizenry and the fact that it was spread out across a huge country would mean that it was hard for people with extreme views to find each other. it would be hard for people with extreme views to coordinate. so that's what the arrival of

social media has really changed. it's made it very easy for people with real outlier views to find each other and coordinate and drive politics, capture party politics in some instances. so we really have to rethink representation so, once again, we have a system that is really seeking to filter and help us synthesize so we can get those views that are really built on the center of gravity of the american people. >> professor, katty kay here. one of the things you talk about here is the country has grown in population, in the number of representatives we have, and it's not enough to handle the number of issues that the grown american country is dealing with. you recommend more districts and smaller districts, so that people could have more contact with their elected representatives. in a way, does that address what also seems to be a problem of the pulling apart, where we almost live in a country where you have 51 party states, perhaps 45 one-party states with very little political movement inside those states.

so you have monolithic opinions and monolithic laws passed in those states. there isn't that coming together of diverse opinions, even within individual states. you almost have to look at them as separate countries now. >> well, it's certainly the case that yes need a lot of different things for democracy to be healthy for all and for people to have voice and choice and for us to steer together effectively. so that right to vote is a cornerstone, but you can't have the right to vote or it doesn't get you anything if you don't also have competitive elections. that's the point you're making. in a lot of our states, we don't really have competitive elections right now. we have a lot of work to do on that front, as well. i'll add a third thing. you might have competitive elections with the great diversity of candidates, but if you don't also have, you know, a healthy information ecosystem, if you can't have transparency around campaign finance, you can't see and shape your community. you can't hold elected officials accountable. so a healthy democracy is really about being able to think about the right to vote and the right

to run or have competitive elections and also the right to see and shape your community. i think we need to work on all three fronts. >> danielle, you've been thinking deeply about these issues for some years now, going back to the declaration of independence, which you've written about eloquently, what it means and what it should mean for today. what is step one in renewing our democracy? where would you start? >> well, i appreciate that, gene. thank you so much for pointing out that length of engagement. for me, the challenges with our democracy have been visible for a long time. so my red alert for the health of our democracy came in 2013, when congress had a 9% approval rating. so i've been thinking about this for quite some time. congress, i think, is a critical first step. my coming columns, the next few after the one today, will really tackle the question of the size of congress. that came up already. you know, when the country was

founded, there were about 30,000 constituents per representative. now, we're over 700,000, headed toward 1 million. really, we don't get the responsive representation when representatives are that far from constituents. doesn't make sense to go back to the 30,000 to 1 ratio, but the house has been capped in its size for about 100 years. the house was supposed to always grow with the shape of the population. that would give us a flexibility, a dynamism that we don't get to see now. we see rigidity instead. that is an important first step, uncapping the house. >> fantastic conversation. "washington post" contributing columnist danielle allen, thank you very much. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, in the wake of the deadly beating of tyre nichols by police officers in memphis, one republican congressman is calling for greater federal involvement in setting police training standards. congressman anthony d'esposito,

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starting at just $49.99 a month. plus, you can save up to 60% a year when you add comcast business mobile. or, ask how to get up to a $750 prepaid card. complete connectivity. one solution, for wherever business takes you. comcast business. powering possibilities. there are new questions this morning after the memphis police department announced two additional police officers have been relieved of duty in the wake of the death of tyre nichols. the city's fire department also announced three personnel who responded to the scene have been fired. joining us now, republican congressman anthony d'esposito. thank you for your time. we appreciate it. you bring your expertise to this conversation. you've called for some changes in the wake of the death of tyre nichols. i'm curious, the humanity of it hit all of us, the lack of humanity in the video, but as a

police officer, as a firefighter, what did you see in the video? >> well, i'll start with this. there is nobody that dislikes a bad cop more than good cops. let's focus there. but i think what we saw in this video is that we need to take a hard look at training across this nation. make it standardized so that departments, whether you're in middle america, the east or west coast, we have the same basic training. i think that's important to keep our communities safe, and it is important to keep the members of service safe. >> congressman, i hear you on that. i've heard many other people say that, but do you really need training to know not to beat a man within an inch of his life when he is laying on the ground? what training would have changed what we saw there? >> well, i think that there's -- what's happening right now is, unfortunately, many departments are lowering their standards, you know, and it is because of the attack from the far left on

law enforcement and the job that people do each and every day. we've seen it -- i'll use my department of the nypd as an example. i mean, this year alone, we've seen record amounts of exits. i think there's nothing more telling when you hear from mems of law enforcement who have, for generations, been part of protecting and serving, and they are telling their children, their grandchildren, their nieces and nephews, they shouldn't join the police department because of the attack that we've seen from the far left. so i think that we need to embrace. we need to call for training, and we need to make sure that departments aren't lowering their standards across this nation. it's, as we see, it's affecting the day-to-day protection of communities. >> you're talking about lowering the standards of who they hire to become police officers? >> correct. i mean, there have been departments throughout this nation that have lowered standards because they just

don't have people knocking on the door to join the ranks. you know, there are departments across this nation, and, thankfully, there are not tops of them, but there are departments where police officers go to work each and every day to patrol and, you know, they could be sharing a bulletproof vest with other people that serve. i mean, that's no way for us to be having law enforcement act in the united states of america. with all the money that we send across to far nations, we need to focus here and make sure the police officers and law enforcement have the tools in their tool belt to do the job they were sworn to do. >> congressman, i don't think you'll get any argue here that the job of being a police officer in specific districts, specific cities, has never been tougher. you pull up to a call at 11:00 at night. there will be at least six people there with cell phones going to record what happens. the ocean of guns that are around in certain neighborhoods.

but, at the end of all of that, we do live in a nation where there is a lost legion of young men and boys who are living in combat zones. they are largely african-american. they've lost all respect, as well as their parents have, for policing, of how difficult the job of policing is. what do we do about tryingafrics and people in cities that the police are there to not hurt or hinder? >> we've seen that in communities throughout the nation, where we've seen new leadership that have embraced the community. the idea of community policing, being one with the people you serve. i would have to disagree. there's not every community, every african-american or minority across the nation, or people who are there who dislike

the police. i worked in brownsville, brooklyn, probably one of the most violent square miles in new york city. i will tell you that, as we've seen, and when the democrats and the new york state legislature passed criminal justice reform, they said the purpose was to protect the minority communities. those communities are the ones that have suffered most. body bag after body bag being removed from communities like that. they want police on the street. they want to see men and women in uniform on their corners. because there are good people that live in those communities who want to go out and get a gallon of milk and not be worried about getting struck with a stray bullet. >> congressman, i want to thank you for saying that. yes, it is true, no one wants or needs good policing more than people who live in neighborhoods that are afflicted by crime. of course, people want good policing. but i want to go back to your original point about whom police departments are hiring and why

that might have changed. do you have information that that was indeed a factor in what happened in memphis? that these were somehow unquail unqualified people who became police officers? because i'm not aware of any reporting that suggests that. it rather suggests to me that this unit, this s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. unit they belong to, was given the assignment to essentially occupy a community rather than to police it. and to do so in a too aggressive and really unsafe manner. >> no, i don't have specific information that these individual members of law enforcement were hired under any situation where the standards were lowered. could they have been? absolutely. what i'm saying is, across this nation, we have seen that people, young people, young people who would have been --

had a great career in law enforcement, no longer -- and that's all communities. it's not just african-americans. that's whites, hispanics. people from all walks of life do not want to be a member of law enforcement because they are concerned that they're going to spend their career through the lens of a camera phone. anything you say or do is unfortunately held against you and taken in a very wrong direction. this situation was terrible. like i said when i started, nobody hates a bad cop more than a good cop. they are going to be held accountable, and they should have never walked the beat. they should have never been sworn in, and they should never be able to police ever again. >> congressman anthony d'esposito of new york, thank you for your time and thank you for your service to the state of new york. appreciate it. >> stay safe. up next, an update on the war in ukraine. including the equipment president biden says the u.s. military will not send to the country. a little later, we'll look at a possible major escalation

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pakistan is vowing revenge after a massive suicide bombing killed at least 95 people and injured hundreds more. many of the victims were police and army personnel who had gathered at a mosque for afternoon prayers. it happened in peshawar, a city not far from the afghan border. officials call it one of the deadliest attacks ever against pakistan's security forces. according to "the washington post," the shockingly successful attack signalled the brazen revival of violent tactics by an extremist faction of the pakistani taliban. we'll be following that. also, secretary of state antony blinken was in jerusalem yesterday meeting with the re-elected prime minister of israel, benjamin netanyahu.

in the backdrop, the fallout from a series of recent incidents in the region including an israeli raid on a refugee camp that killed at least nine palestinians. the deadliest operation within the west bank in decades. that attack was followed by a shooting at a synagogue in east jerusalem that killed seven people, allegedly carried out by a gunman of palestinian descent. iran said on sunday, an inbound drone strike slightly damaged a defense ministry complex. "the washington post" reports a u.s. official tells them it appears to have been orchestrated by the israeli military. so with all that going on there, katty kay, talk about what antiwhat antony blinken is trying to accomplish in this trip. >> he's trying not to get distracted from america's main aims at the moment, which are rallying support for the war in ukraine.

and what the americans would really like is for israel to get off its kind of neutral fence and get more in line with the western effort and supply more technology to the ukrainians, which so far, they haven't wanted to do. he's there urging peace. he's been trying to talk to mahmood abbas, urging cooperation with the israeli authorities. there's little the united states can do or is prepared to do in trying to do more than urge a two-state solution, which is what tony blinken has been talking about again while he's been there. there are who openly reject that two-state solution so there isn't very much pressure that the americans can put on the israelis at the moment. you have this terrible violence. two dozen people killed on both sides in the past week. increasing frustrations from a young unemployed palestinian youth who don't see a future for

themselves. it is very difficult but blinken has to try to triage and the priority for washington is ukraine and trying to get israel on board with western efforts. >> on that very complicated note we turn to the war this ukraine where the united states will not be sending f-16 fighter jets. president biden telling reporters no when asked what other military assets are already on the way. as the war in ukraine nears a year a new documents from pbs of "putin and the presidents" explores the dynamic between u.s. leader, the russian president and arriving at this moment. >> vladimir putin is as cold blooded as any foreign leader i have ever seen. >> mistruth after mistruth.

he does it as easily as he breathes. >> leading to a dangerous new conflict with the west. >> if russia is allowed to get away with this it affects the entire international order. >> joining us now michael kirk who co-wrote and co-produced the film. i'm curious. when you look at putin and the presidents are you tracking how the relationships have changed? nato has grown. nato is stronger than ever. perhaps it wasn't the case in the trump years. have the dynamics between vladimir putin and other world leaders changed, as well? >> i think when you look back over the 20 years of putin's reign in russia you find the

americans misjudged putin and finally come to realize when you talk to the biden administration and secretary blinken which is that putin's been at war with the united states and the west for two decades and that war is all about empire for him. he likes to say that if russia without ukraine is just a country but with ukraine is an empire. i think that's what biden is up against and also the failures of past presidents to recognize how lethal and ambitious putin is. >> you track a lot through many administrations in terms of the relationship with russia and you look at the miscalculations and missteps. so name a few and what did we learn -- did we learn? >> i think bush thought there

will be a good partner and a continuation of yeltsin and he said that -- uttered the i looked in the eyes and saw his soul. people said that putin had a well developed dossier on bush and needed a religious feeling from himself and bush would be on the team. he thought of the a junior unimportant partner until going into iraq. putin said i will fight back and show him you can't mess around in what he considered to be the outer boundary, iraq and the middle east. you see bush lose him badly in the olympics trying to convince putin to stop the incursion into georgia and putin basically says, no, i'm going the direction to build my empire.

it is the same kind of story you see with obama who wasn't interested in putin and putin we say in the film was a hardcore racist about obama and didn't want to be in the room with him. you see what happens there. the relationship between the president and putin breaks down. obama hands it to biden. biden decides to get tough with putin and he knows now what that means is biden as vice president means he can go forward and test america. he thinks of biden weak. that's taking crimea and georgia and the united states had done nothing and not pushed back. i think he thought that's clear sailing and what trump said that putin played him as a fool so suddenly putin saying i can do almost anything i want and i want ukraine back and then i'm

going for it. putin does anyway. it's up to biden trying to clean it up and at least by now everybody i gather we talk to realizes how dangerous and important the situation. >> the documentary is available now streaming right now and airs tonight on pbs. thank you so much for being on this morning. still ahead, new polling on potential gop primary front-runner shows ron desantis holding a substantial lead over donald trump. we'll dig into the new numbers. a next guest said many republicans are clinging to hopes that trump will disappear from politics. we'll explain that magical thinking straight ahead on "morning joe." we're back in a moment.

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it is about making investments in america's cities, towns, heartland, rural america. macking things in america again. it is about good jobs, the dignity of work and respect and self worth and it is about damn time we are doing it. >> president biden in baltimore yesterday highlighting major rail improvements thanks to his infrastructure law. that tour continues today as he needs to new york city to tout a massive grant for the hudson tunnel project why this hour an old investigation that could bring new legal trouble for former president trump. we are going to go through the developments in the stormy daniels hush money case. that is coming back. republican congressman george santos settles on a scapegoat for the many laws as there's new polling from voters in his district on whether he should

resign. they're not happy with him. welcome back to "morning joe." tuesday, january 31st. joe, we'll begin in new york city. >> we'll begin with chuck schumer with president biden to tout funding for the tunnel system. it will connect manhattan and new jersey underthe hudson river and repair the tunnels damaged by hurricane sandy from the $1 trillion infrastructure package. let's bring in white house correspondent mike memoli. great to have you with us. if you are here the president is here and probably a train involved and there is again today. what's the message from the president today about the tunnel i swear they have been talking about since i was a kid in new jersey. >> i spent my formative years

commuting into new york. >> same. >> spent time in the tunnels and what the president is doing today and yesterday is vintage president biden. right? he is talking about rebuilding the backbone of america, the middle class, reviving american infrastructure trying to realize the long-sought promises politicians have been making for decades. chris christie rejected the recovery act funding in 2009, 2010 for this. this is a build-up to the state of the union a week from today. look at the president's approval rate, 45%. that's pretty good. he tried to get the infrastructure bill, the build back better agenda through and most of the conversation about the internal battles and the price tag why. now the president is saying look

what this brought about. talking about train tunnels from the civil war era that the federal government is delivering on. this is the foundation of the economic agenda and hoping to now rebuild especially as he gears up for re-election campaign. >> this is the administration saying the media and the country moves so fast. let's say this is what we have done. >> this is a concrete example of something we have done and where it will be harder to get things done but isn't there a sort of subtle political advantage to this? a contrast. president biden can present i worked across the aisle with republicans. look at the guys in the house. they want to do political fighting. >> the goal for the white house is to separate the maga wing from the republican wing from the mitch mcconnell wing.

the president was at a bridge in kentucky with mitch mcconnell. he called him my good friend last week at an event in virginia. he is trying to show while republicans are coming in with this new agenda vowing to block what we are trying to do we plow ahead and thought we got an unscripted line from president biden and one that was smart in capturing the moment as we head into the debt ceiling fight. one of the white house strategies to say we won't negotiate when republicans can't negotiate with each other. asked about the meeting with speaker kevin mccarthy tomorrow, the president said you show me your budget and i'll show you mine. maybe president trump on the ballot. could be the republicans thinking about running but for now president biden is employing the tried and true tactic. use the opposition congress as a primary sparring partner and wait until the nominee settled

in. >> what's the level of frustration in the white house with the fact that there are now several big projects that people can see as they pass them by? they can see construction why they can see bridges rebuilt. so the level of frustration not receiving credit for getting this thing done and the lack of messaging expertise in the white house? >> that frustration is directed at us. it is an article of faith in the white house that the conversations do not resemble the kitchen table conversations that americans are having. this is sort of what the white house is arguing to us for years and an acknowledgement of a messaging problem. we have the $5 a gallon gas problem. now the additional hurdle.

the choreography of the last weeks, the first sitting president to speak from the same pulpit as dr. king, they hope it breaks through to ordinary americans. >> we have been told that the president will wait until after the state of the union to announce to run for president. most people expect him to run again. is there any conversation that would lead you to believe he may not run for re-election? >> i think it is important to listen to the president's own words. he says i intend but also a respecter of fate. we have seen what that means. like 2015. he was gearing up to run in 2016 and lost his ellest son and seen in 1988. the campaign dislodged by the plagiarism and then a medical

issue. those are the factors that lead the president. the conversations last year around an early announcement were premised on the expectation of the midterms tougher and more calls in the party. the white house thinks they have time to get the rollout of the campaign on their own terms and he will be raising money and again in philadelphia on friday. most public political event is speaking to the dnc. listening to the president we'll get a sense of how he views the politics. >> anything you hear that tells you anything other than running again? >> all systems go but until it's done that's not done. the family is on board. the first lady is on board with this run but the president did

just turn 80. there will be questions about age and health but the midterms did buy him time. they feel there's success there. they finished with momentum. they look across the aisle and see the republicans they feel like are beatable. in particular they anticipate that donald trump will be there at the end of the day as the republican nominee and they feel like president biden the case in 2020 and it is again now i'm the one man who beat him before. i can do it again. if not me, who? >> both of you mentioned a key phrase that has more to do with joe biden than anybody i have ever known in public life. a respecter of fate. he measures it by himself with his wife and the family. he is always aware of jit the

possibilities of fate positive and negative. so we'll see what he does. that's all we can do. >> one of the president's longest serving allies, confidants said that joe biden ran for president and thought of running for president more than any other human on earth. he said i'll believe it when i see it on television. >> start digging the tunnel we have been waiting for for 40 years. thank you so much. all right. former president trump campaigned in south carolina and new hampshire this weekend and the performances in both states led to criticism from within his own party. >> i said over and over again he can't win a general election. that's not speculation. that's based upon the polling that i was privy to pre the 2020

election and saw happen in the 2020 election and only worse since then and then add to it 2022. election deniers losing across the country. bad candidates like in pennsylvania dragging the pennsylvania ticket down in a historic way. lake, masters, michaels, jones. we could go through the list. loser, loser, loser, loser. i think republicans recognize that. >> it is hard to miss it. there's so much losing that happened since he won once. while chris christie may believe that donald trump and others are done our next guest believes others. in a new piece staff writer at "the atlantic" argues that many in the party are ready to drop trump but don't know the most effective way to do so. and also the publisher of the

bullwork is sarah longwell. mckay you write this. press them hard enough and most republican officials will privately admit that donald trump has become a problem. he's presided over three abysmal election cycles since taking office. he was more unstable than ever and yet he returned to the campaign declaring that he is angry and determined to win the gop presidential nomination. again in 2024. aside from his most blinkered loyalists virtually everyone in the party agrees it is time to move on from trump. but asking them how the discussion goes to hopeful hypotheticals. maybe he'll get indicted and the legal problems overwhelm him. maybe he'll flame out in the

early primaries or wander away. maybe the situation resolves itself naturally. faced with the prospect of another election cycle dominated by trump, many republicans are quietly rooting for something to happen to make him go away. and they would strongly prefer not to make it happen themselves. you have just summed up the weakness of the republican party and why his followers do stupid, cruel, sick things pushing conspiracy theories about paul pelosi in the hours after his attack. this is the fish rotting from the head. and it continues and they're too weak to do anything about it. so what then? >> yeah. there's this learned cowardice

inside the republican party back to 2016. this is the repeat of the dynamic to the early rise to power. most elected officials don't want him to be the nominee. they want him to go away but they're so afraid of a backlash that nobody wants to jump first. what we have instead is a magical thinking, the delusions, this wishful fantasy that something will happen to take care of it for us so we don't have to beat him. >> sarah longwell, tell us what you found in the polling. what are the key takeaways? >> we released a new poll that showed how much donald trump is really fading within the republican party. in a head to head matchup with ron desantis on three different ballots, when ed to head, with

another candidate or a ten-way ballot ron desantis beating trump in all of those but -- but the problem is, and this goes to mckay's problem, donald trump in all of the ballot tests is holding on to about 28 to 30% of republicans. so even though the majority of the party wants to move on and like somebody else like ron desantis donald trump has this locked in base going nowhere that thinks that donald trump is the only one who can sort of tell it like it is. they have a mythology built up around donald trump and they are so locked in. this is the question i wanted to understand in the poll. if donald trump runs as an independent, would you follow him? 28% of the people who are sort of always trump said they would follow him on an independent presidential campaign and this is where he has a ton of

leverage against republicans. they don't know what to do about the fact that he can walk away with the voters. even though the party thinks we have to move on, can't win, there's a locked in percent that keeps the party from moving on from trump. >> mckay, was there any sense in the interviews with republicans, republican elites that they understand that they're engaged in magical thinking, that they understand they a-wishing and a-hoping rather than doing anything or just lost in the fog? >> i talked to former senator rob portman who's a classic, you know, establishment republican and when i asked him about the trump problem, i think he is going to step away.

he'll realize that there are other republicans better suited to win the election so i think he'll bow out graciously and become a senior statesman in the party and i actually kind of involuntarily laughed. it is so contrary to everything we know about donald trump and then he said, you know, maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. they aren't willing to take the next step and do something about it. >> there's wish casting. paul ryan said donald trump is a proven losser. he could win a nomination. might be wishful thinking. is there an acceptable alternative besides ron desantis? ron desantis strikes people as an idea. he could be good instead of donald trump. some of the parts i like about

trump but not the bad stuff. some bad stuff. what are the voters looking for? >> this is interesting about why they like ron desantis. they talk about ron desantis in relation to trump. they say ron desantis is trump without the baggage. i find this fascinating because trump is still the center of the political world view and looking for somebody to give them the trumpy stuff they love and see as electable. somebody to peel off swing voters. ron desantis may not fulfill the hopes and dreams that they impose on him that another candidate could emerge. i guess part of my fear in looking at the polling in the 28, 30% is if ron desantis gets on the big stage and people are

look, he is not as good as i thought he is going to be and we have the og donald trump as an option that they go back to what they know because they still want this fighter. they're not that interested in the old-school pragmatic republicans for people who might use ronald reagan as an avatar and aspire to. voters want somebody to beat up on the enemies, be a strong man and so right now that's why both donald trump and ron desantis are leaders in the imaginations. >> mckay, we saw in the arizona you had some republicans who voted republican across the ticket not vote for kari lake for the governor's race. i think 30,000. republicans prepared to vote for a democrat to not get something too extreme into the governor's

office. do you think over the course of the last eight years there have been a number of republicans disenchanted with trump but prepared to vote for a democrat to get rid of him? how does it game out for you? >> yeah. i think there's no question there's a realignment. polling holds that up. republicans has become disenchanted with the party and become independent. some voted for joe biden in the last election. i think the longer that donald trump has a hold on the party the more solidified that realignment will become. the republican elites hope that if trump disappears they could win back the john mccain voters they used to be so strong with. again, it is just a matter of

beating donald trump. donald trump isn't going to magically disappear. the republican party and one republican in particular whether that's ron desantis or somebody else has to step up and beat him. this problem isn't going to solve itself for the party. >> all right. mckay coppens, thank you. the new piece for the magazine is online now. sarah longwell, as always, thank you. we have a notable passing to tell you about. cindy williams known for playing shirley on "lauvergne & shirley" died at 75 after a brief illness. her role on the show endeared her to millions. she starred opposite the late penny marshall as one half of a

dynamic friend duo whose add sven which you shalls powered the show. >> well, we got to get out of here. >> what do you suggest i do? flap my arms real hard and try to get to the window? >> try to get to the door. are you making any headway? >> no. i'm not making any headway! >> okay. i got a better idea. >> all right. >> there's a chair over there. try to get me to it. [ laughter snmpld. >> i almost got it! i don't got it! okay, okay, okay. >> all right. calm down. this will work. >> let's just try to jump off

these hooks. >> all right. >> the show ran for eight seasons from 1976 to 1983 and one of the most popular shows on television in its prime. cindy williams was 75 years old. still ahead on "morning joe," two more police officers of memphis get suspended. plus, former president trump facing new legal troubles stemming from the hush money payments to stormy daniels back in 2016. we'll take a look at the new investigation. coming up in the fourth hour, we are joined by two actors for a look at the new peacock series "pucker face." you are watching "morning joe."

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donald trump ramps up the latest run for the white house he is now facing another legal challenge. a grand jury has been convened in the case of hush money payments made to adult film star stormy daniels by donald trump in 2016 according to two sources familiar with the situation confirming the development to nbc news first reported by "the new york times." the prosecutor centered on a payment to daniels. a spokeswoman for the manhattan d.a. and attorney for former president trump declined comment on the matter. michael cohen you will remember went to federal prison for the role in the payments. he says he met with prosecutors in recent weeks and may be asked to appear before the grand jury. >> donald will ult mately be

held accountable. this investigation is the most detrimental to him as his freedom and business and et cetera because it is the easiest to prove. the checks are the checks. there's recordings. first three-month payment made by donald trump and i gave those to the house oversight committee that posted them. so he's not in the same position where he can deny or lie the way that he will in some of the other matters. >> former president trump issued a statement yesterday responding to the reports of a grand jury calling it a continuation of a witch hunt. he acknowledged he paid cohen

the sum of $130,000. let's bring in lecturer in law at columbia law school caroline policei. it should be pointed out that michael cohen not the best character at the center of the case. he is convicted in this matter, as well. what is the legal exposure for donald trump? are you surprised that brag came to the point of a grand jury? >> i think everybody's asking why now. we are talking about conduct in 2016, 2017. michael cohen pleaded guilty to crimes of that conduct, served the prison time. cy vance before alvin brag opened a sprawling investigation including the hush money payments and financial crimes and when brag took over two top

prosecutors resigned and one is coming out with a book about that but because they felt like brag didn't have the appetite to move forward and abandoned the desire to prosecute trump. fast forward, brag now has two wins under the belt against trump. maybe he has some wind in his sails. this case has been referred to as the zombie theory because it just won't die. but apparently it's been resurrected and coming back to life. >> take us into an entry level class and explain what it means. >> it is pretty significant. the old says you can indict a ham sandwich but given the political implications of this,

this is likely a special grand jury. impanelled to look at complex financial crimes. i don't think brag would impanel such a jury and present the evidence if he weren't going to indict and didn't feel like he could get a win. >> have you ever seen and maybe the answer is yes, have you seen an individual with so many different legal challenges weighing him down, to do with the finances of his own company, rape charges, the georgia investigation, the big lie, the january 6 investigation. this is a pretty long list. so that's number one. how many legal challenges can one person face without drowning in them? number two, this one seems so far back in time and smaller in scope could it lead to real consequences? >> that's right.

the question is, which one is going to stick? here to fore we thought the documents case. >> oh, the documents, right. >> a dark horse in the race. this one looks like it is coming up. you are right. finance crimes of this nature are not sort of the crime of the century. falsification of documents in new york is a low level offense. it can be a felony if it was done in the pursuit of violating a second law and that's untested akin to what michael cohen pleaded guilty on the federal level so the misdocumentation and a campaign contribution over the legal limit. >> would there to be an indictment and that charge be

leveled at former president trump what sort of penalty could be attached with a conviction? >> if they can do both charges and kicked up to a felony charge punishable by up to four years in prison. the latest from memphis where the city is holding more people accountable for the death of tyre nichols. we'll have an update when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪ ♪i feel free to bare my skin yeah, that's all me♪ ♪nothing and me go hand in hand♪ ♪nothing on my skin♪ ♪that's my new plan♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ achieve clearer skin with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 4 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪i see nothing in a different way♪ ♪it's my moment so i just gotta say♪

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two more memphis police officers relieved of their duties in the wake of the deadly beating of tyre nichols. memphis police department announced two additional officers placed on leave the day after the traffic stop. one is confirmed to be officer preston hemphill part of the now defunct scorpion unit and used a taser on nichols. they would not answer questions

yesterday about the seventh officer. the lawyer confirmed video was on his body camera and he was the third to arrive at the i remember -- initial stop and cooperating with the investigation. the memphis fire department has also fired more personnel as a result of the case. two emts and a lieutenant violated numerous policies and protocols. they said they concluded that nichols treated for the reason they were called having been pepper sprayed and not the numerous other injuries he sustained. an official cause of death is not released. joining us is correspondent

ellison barber with the very latest. >> reporter: the memphis police department is saying that all seven of the officers relieved of duh the i the day after january 8th, the day after this detainment, beating and death ultimately of tyre nichols on january 7th and didn't have the information publicly about the two officers number six and number seven we learned about in the last 24 hours. officer preston hemphill. the attorney said the first body camera footage on friday evening from his camera so in terms of why we are just getting the names right now a spokesman police department is saying they prioritizes interviewing officers of the second scene first where the incident

occurred. they say the five officers terminated faesing criminal charges were directly involved at the first and second scene where he was physically abused and suffered serious injuries. there are charges still developing. we expect the next wave in the coming days. the fact we don't know the seventh officer's named and just learned the name and the circumstances surrounding the sixth officer is something that's frustrated community activists as well as the attorneys for tyre nichols' family. getting the name yesterday one of the first things the attorneys said was why didn't we know this name earlier? they said we have been asking for transparency from the beginning and in their view the fact they didn't know who the

officer was and not yet fired shows to them that the memphis police department is not serious enough. interestingly the name of the sixth officer started to surface on social media first. the tennessee holler noticed the name of the sixth officer in an early affidavit where it said that he had deployed the taser at the scene. they wondered why they didn't know from the public information from memphis police department who this person was, why nothing had happened to this individual and then ultimately you had the events in the last 24 hours where the memphis police department confirmed the officers and another relieved of duty. we don't know whether or not

they have been relieved with or without pay. that's something we heard last night activists talking about demanding that the officers be fired. coming up, most polling shows that voters in the george santos district want him to resign. we'll show you the numbers next on "morning joe." nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi.n. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi,

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good morning. do you owe your constituents any response to aumont accusations about the lies? >> i'm sorry. i have spoken to constituents largely. i have been fielding calls and answers this whole time. >> are you concerned about any of the accusations in the media about -- >> the media likes to blow

stories not there up and use word salads to confuse the constituency. >> thank you. >> irony is dead. george santos accusing others of word salad. that's george santos blaming the media about the lies he has told. some of which he confessed to. new polling shows 78% of voters from his district want him to resign from office. includes 89% democrats. 72% independents. yes, 71% of republicans want him gone. joining us is editor at "the new yorker." people wonder how did this happen? a big part of the story is chris grant. who is he? >> chris grant is the operative that was the general consultant for the campaign and helped run

the campaign in many ways and many ways helped santos actually win. he runs big dog strategies. so he consults on last cycle maybe more than 100 republican campaigns and the lead operative for eight of them and he was the guy that took over santos' campaign after the previous consultants quit. >> people inside the campaign aware of his lies and suggest to drop out of the race. that was not the strategy i take it of chris grant. how did he approach the campaign? >> there's a question how much they knew. there's opposition research panel they convened and they have this packet of opposition research. his strategy essentially was to run on the issues and if you look at george santos he gave a couple speech os ten floor of

congress. he is not exciting other than the lies. take that away and there's a lot to take away but he's a little bit dull and i think in some wy voters not paying a ton of attention. won by 8 points. >> so this chris grant co-founder of big dog strategies, how did he and santos get linked up? santos ge? grant has a wide resume of a lot of other candidates. have there been any others who have had similar embellishments? is this a pattern? >> i wouldn't necessarily say it's a pattern. there are a lot of candidates that he represents. you need a political operative if you go to someone like big dog. it's a name that people know because he's worked on

campaigns. he's had a pretty good track record. there was a guy named steve watkins, who was kind of a proto santos. he embellished parts of his story. he said he was a hero of mt. everest, he saved people during the earthquake there. at least he was close to mt. everest, close to base camp. he didn't save anyone. he had some property in alaska. it was unclear if he had property in kansas. he listed his address as a ups store. if you're a political operative, you don't always get to choose your candidates. when do you say no? do you cut bait? the answer for him was no, you stay the course and try to win. >> so many of the lessons these candidates have learned from donald trump is when there's

scandal and lies, just put your head down and plow through them. >> exactly. that's what trump did and he's still standing. zach, my question is whether santos's svengali new anything or according to your reporting about the money that went into the campaign, this phantom $700,000 that was lent by santos and it was not lent by santos, apparently. where was the money coming from? what was his involvement on that? >> that's a big question. i don't know for sure. so what we do know is that when you're a general consultant for a campaign, one of the things you're overseeing is the budget. on the other campaign, they decided their budget did not include enough money for really thorough opposition research. you could see how important managing that money is.

so for chris grant, did he know where the money was coming from? that's unclear, but we do know that he was one of the people in charge of determining the money, allocating the money, planning for what money was coming in. >> the piece is titled "meet the man who brought you george santos, at the new yorker. coming up, a live report from the white house ahead of the president's meeting tomorrow with house speaker kevin mccarthy. can they end the standoff over the debt ceiling? standoff over the debt ceiling nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid

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joe." it's a few minutes before the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." a live look at new york city for you, a little cloudy this morning. we want to take a look at the

morning papers for you, headlines making news across the country, starting in georgia where the atlanta journal constitution reports political figures in the south want the 2024 democratic national convention to be held in atlanta. more than 60 officials signed a letter saying the city will make clear to republicans that they have to compete across every corner of the map if they want to keep pace with democrats. chicago and new york are also vying to host the event, which brings in 50,000 visitors. the anchorage daily news has a front page feature on the rise of tuberculosis cases in alaska, the numbers in 2022 two-thirds higher in the last two years, this as the state's health care system has been overwhelmed by the pandemic, leading to lapses in tuberculosis screening and

treatment. alaska consistently has a rate of tb cases two to three times higher than the national rate. the brainerd dispatch, a advocates say those in the u.s. illegally often drive without a license and they should not have to live in fear while trying to get to work and school. the forum reports the north dakota legislature wants to provide free lunches to all students. the bill seeks nearly $90 million and would direct schools to not deny students a meal. about 30,000 students get breakfast at school every day and 90,000 get lunch. the south jersey times reports state lawmakers are advancing

legislation nicknamed the seinfeld bill. it would require telemarketers to state their name, what they're selling and who they're representing all within 30 seconds of the call with a potential customer. the bill gets its nickname from this scene. >> go ahead, susan, tell him. >> tell me what. >> well -- >> excuse me one second. >> hi. would you be interested in switching over to tmi long distance service. >> i can't talk right now. why don't you give me your home number and i'll call you later? >> sorry, we're not allowed to do that. >> i guess you don't want people calling you at home. >> no. >> well, now you know how i feel. >> i don't know if you still get calls that you answer on your cell phones. they're like hello and they don't stop talking. how are you not supposed to be slightly short with them? >> just don't answer would be my advice. these days you see the number, it's from a state you don't get

a lot of calls from. just ignore it. if you answer, it's like feeding a stray animal. they're going to keep coming back. >> i know. >> there's got to be data that tells us whether or not these telemarketers does it work for anybody? who would pick up a phone call and start doing business and buy something from a phone call? i don't see it. >> i think it's worked through the generations is why it keeps going. this entire story was was a naked opportunity fur our executive producer to play a clip from seinfeld. >> it's the best show on television. exactly. you are guilty, alex. i totally agree with you. it's the top of the fourth hour, 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the west coast. we have a lot to get to including the latest fallout tied to the death of tyre nichols. we'll have new developments from

memphis. we're also following a growing mystery at the dallas zoo after an unprecedented string of events that includes missing animals, damaged enclosures and the suspicious death of an endangered bird. and natasha lyon and benjamin brat. a grand jury has convened in hush money probe related to stormy daniels. the times reports manhattan district attorney alvin brag started presenting evidence to a grand jury yesterday centering on a $130,000 payment to daniels. a spokeswoman for the manhattan d.a. and an attorney for the former president both declined to comment to us on the matter. former president trump himself issuing a statement on his social media platform yesterday

responding to the reports of the grand jury calling it -- you guessed it -- the continuation of a witch hunt against him. trump denied having an affair with daniels, but he acknowledged he did repay, he says, cohen the $130,000. let's bring ari melber and state attorney for palm beach county, florida, darren aaronberg. >> grand jury is the real deal. this is not some leak. this is not some statement of possible action. the "new york times," which wrote the story, used the term dramatic escalation. as for the underlying charges, let's be very precise. these are not the most serious

charges donald trump has faced in terms of what we know different prosecutors' offices at the local and federal level have looked at. it's not a case that touches on the violence of the insurrection or complex alleged financial crimes or even obstruction of justice, which at the federal level many people found the mueller report was identified in multiple instances that were not ever charged in any traditional way. having said that, we're a nation of laws and he is no longer the president and he could be up for this type of d.a. enforcement just like anyone else. i interviewed d.a. brag when he convicted trump's cfo weisselberg. i asked about those other issues and they said they would follow the facts. i think this is one of those times where if they keep going, we're seeing they're more moved by the evidence, that they may

have evidence that ties this really directly to donald trump, to his state of mind, to his actions and potentially to him signing or doing things at a physical document level that they may feel is a stronger case, for example, than the trump org case where there were a lot of accusations flying around. they convicted the cfo, but he seemed to be at a distance from it. sometimes it's not how big is the implication, it's how tight is the evidence going forward. >> a d.a. is not going to seat a grand jury unless he believes he can get an indictment. if that is the case, if there is an indictment from this grand jury, what happens next? >> on a case like this, it would be potentially something like one or two counts. it might be a campaign finance violation coupled with something like basically do they have evidence that there is a scheme,

a furtive scheme to mislead the government or some other authority. if you charge someone on that, the fact that they used to be president is not supposed to matter. so they could be booked in a new york arraignment like anyone else, they could be out on bond and the process would go forward. for those who say, gosh, maybe this shouldn't be dealt with ultimately with a prison sentence, that's something that if you're a first-time offender and you litigate, that's something that's dealt with in the trial process. that this individual was in the white house is not supposed to be a get out of jail free card for the rest of their lives. the question is, did he do it? he would be legally presumed innocent if booked. >> i always wonder why the world just seemed to move past a candidate paying hush money to a porn star, campaign finance

violations with this tawdry angle and this amount of money. i guess they haven't. and i guess this must be, ari, as you have pointed out, incredibly serious and incredibly terrible news for donald trump. you would think this alone would be overwhelming to deal with just all the legal angles and possibilities here. in addition to this latest grand jury probe by new york prosecutors, there are others. the department of justice looking into the removal of government documents from the white house which were taken to mar-a-lago after trump left office. then he held onto them. he wouldn't give them back. investigators are assessing how these documents were stored, who may have had access to them. and a grand jury in washington has been hearing evidence in that investigation. trump claims he was raided. actually, he was ignoring a subpoena and didn't give the documents. that is a massive case

potentially against donald trump stealing documents from the u.s. government. there's also a special counsel investigating trump as the federal probe accelerated into whether the former president should face criminal charges for efforts to overturn the 2020 election. it goes on. the january 6th committee made a criminal referral against donald trump in december for illegally engaging in a conspiracy to make false statements to congress by submitting fake electoral certificates. this could be criminal. the panel presented its finding as hard evidence that trump and his associated committed crimes, particularly by creating fake electors. trump also faces separate civil lawsuits over the january 6th riot and insurrection. seditious conspiracy is legit in many of the cases that are happening as a result of january

6th. meanwhile, in georgia, prosecutors are looking into alleged attempts to overturn the election results there. the criminal investigation was opened after the disclosure of an hour long call between the former president and georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. he's like, i just need a couple more votes. get them for me. that's bad. in new york, attorney general leticia james has sued trump and the trump organization saying it misled banks and tax authorities about the value of assets to get loans and tax benefits and that lawsuit is pending. trump is also being sued by a former magazine writer e. jean carroll after he denied her allegation that he raped her in the '90s in a new york city department store. a judge in that case recently rejected donald trump's efforts to dismiss the lawsuit.

so dave aaronberg, my question is this, do you know of anybody with this many legal investigations, potential indictments, potential criminal prosecution against him? >> no. that's a fast crowd to hang around with, mika. i don't know anyone like that. i think when it comes to this manhattan case, it's probably the fourth out of four as far as the strongest case against trump. i think the documents case is by far the best case against trump by prosecutors. for those who think, well, biden did it and pence did it, it's not the possession of the documents, it's the refusal to get them back. you could put it on a bumper sticker. it's the obstruction, stupid. the fulton county d.a. has a potentially good case. they have trump on tape. this one in manhattan is not as strong.

the penalties aren't very harsh. even if he's convicted of a felony, you can get up to four years on a felony and the judge is likely to give him a lot less. i don't think it's the best case. plus, they depend on michael cohen, who has been out there trying to make amends for his misdeeds. but the defense lawyers for trump are going to skewer him for lying to government officials, for being an ex-con and for having an ax to grind against his former boss. also falsification of business records in new york is just a misdemeanor. you have to tie it to another crime for it to be a felony like an election crime. the problem is, the election was a federal election and these are state prosecutions. can -- of the four cases this one in manhattan is the least of the four. >> melber, how many attorneys do you need to handle all these legal cases? does he have like a hundred

lawyers? >> i mean, i think at this point his lawyers have lawyers. that's literally the case in georgia and the mar-a-lago probe. you know how the internet works, mika. i hope somebody cuts and replays what you just walked through, because it speaks to just the way this individual has tried to both use and exploit everything in the justice system to delay, delay, obfuscate and hide. he has lawyers who are in trouble. he has lawyers who basically tried to get out from having to continue some of these cases. and he has experience trying to outrun and avoid legal oversight, regulation and the criminal justice process. people can do with that what they will.

i'm not convicing him on air. we have a process for that. i certainly wouldn't call it a positive when you have something who appears to have specialized over many years in trying to avoid oversight, accountability and transparency. by contrast, mika, there are other people who if accused of something, they sometimes say let's get into it, let me turn over the materials and prove my innocence. that hasn't been the approach. >> dave aronberg, is it possible had he turned over the mar-a-lago documents right away, he wouldn't be facing potential obstruction charges? >> not only is it possible, mika. i would say with 100% certainty had he turned over the documents right away, we wouldn't be talked about this now. that's why biden and pence, neither of them will be charged but donald trump will because it's about the obstruction not the possession of the documents.

>> dave aaron berg thank you very much for being on this morning. ari melber weekdays at 6:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. there are new developments to report this morning on the investigation into the brutal beating death of tyre nichols during what's being called a police traffic stop in memphis. two additional police officers have now been relieved of duty and three emts have been fired. priscilla thompson has the latest. a warning, some of the footage in her piece you're about to see is disturbing. >> reporter: two memphis police officers on leave this morning as the department investigates their actions in the death of tyre nichols. memphis police declined to name one of the officers but identified the other as preston hemphill, a five-year veteran of the force. he is seen on his body camera

helping pin nichols down and pointing a taser that authorities say he fired. lawyers for nichols' family are asking why hemphill, who is white, has not been fired. >> he should be terminated like the other five black officers that were terminated. >> reporter: hemphill's attorney says his client was never present at the second scene and is cooperating with the investigation. the district attorney says more charges could follow. >> we look looking at everybody. we're doing it in a thorough and fair manner. >> reporter: this comes as others who were on the scene are also facing disciplinary action. three emts have been fired after an internal investigation found they violated numerous policies and protocols and that the two responding emts failed to

conduct an adequate patient assessment of nichols. about ten minutes after arriving at the scene, pole cameras show emts walking away from nichols and leaving him as he rolls around on the ground in pain. two shelby county sheriff's deputies remain under investigation. >> they failed by using excessive force, they failed him by not intervening and not rendering aid. >> reporter: overnight vigils held around the country for the 29-year-old dad. >> he really did want to change the world and he did change the world. his name will never be forgotten. >> let's bring in white house correspondent for politico, eugene daniels is live for us at the white house. this has sparked already calls for police reform. there was that effort after the murder of george floyd in 2020,

a bipartisan effort, but those talks fell apart. we've heard talk from some democrats like dck durbin that they are reaching out to lindsey graham. is there a realistic shot of that going anywhere? >> reporter: people that i talked to earlier this week about this seem a little bit more hopeful than anticipated. the split of congress makes it seem like this is something that wouldn't happen. cory booker, the senator from new jersey, is expected to release again some form of the george floyd justice in policing act some time soon, his office says. tim scott is also part of that effort, saying he is willing to give backing to do this. the white house is saying they want that to happen. the problem is, the sticking points that were there last time are the same sticking points that are here now. you talk about qualified immunity that protects police

officers from being sued and personally liable for instances like we just saw. so those conversations are happening at the very beginning stages. lindsey graham talked about being open to a form of qualified immunity going away that would be about the departments and not the individual police officers. that's something that advocates say they're open to listening to. republicans are on board with that. that's possible that something will happen. i heard over and over from democrats and republicans when i was working on a piece of this, is that most of the officers that were involved here and we've seen be punished were black. they feel like that pulls some of the race conversation out of it, whether fair or not. that will give republicans an many in that if they don't have

to have this conversation about race, maybe they will come to the table. that's something i heard over and over from folks that was honestly quite surprising. >> big meeting tomorrow between the president and speaker mccarthy about the debt ceiling. >> reporter: this is a white house that feels like they have the upper hand. they've said the same message over and over, same thing with congressional democrats, so much so that in a white house memo from the director of the national economic council, they're trying to paint and put mccarthy in a corner. essentially the white house says president biden is going to ask and try to extract two things out of mccarthy tomorrow. it's to, quote, get mccarthy to

commit to the bedrock principle that the united states will never default on its financial obligations as leader schumer, mcconnell and jeffreys have already done. the second is to get him to release that budget. mccarthy talked about how this is something that one of their most important aspects of what congress should be doing and put it on the table. they're shaming him on lack of budget and reminding him and everyone else that he is a leader of a conference that has had a chaotic first month with no ending in sight. the white house has said over and over that president biden is willing to have a conversation on the economy and separate from the debt limit. that's something that we're probably going to hear from president biden tomorrow, is that they don't want to tie the two. we don't know what time that meeting is going to happen just

yet, but it is happening tomorrow. >> eugene daniels, thank you so much. the white house position is we're not negotiating on this. what is the conversation with the president and speaker mccarthy? >> very little is expected to get done tomorrow. we're seeing the white house trying to frame the discussion saying, this is how we've done it in the past, we're not negotiating on this. we'll give you our budget march 9th. we want to hear your ideas. we heard this from the president yesterday about kevin mccarthy. they believe, the white house, that they have the upper hand, that any spending cuts will be unpopular with voters because we're talking about things like medicare and social security. mccarthy has now said they won't touch those. that leaves probably defense. that's going to be a tough sell not just to voters right now at a time of war in europe, but also among fellow republicans. they're really boxing mccarthy

in here. as much as he's beholden to some of the elements on the right saying we're not going to raise the debt ceiling anymore. there's also the other party saying we don't want to cut defense spending either. they're boxing mccarthy in here. people have said there's not going to be a resolution for months but there is a hope there is an off ramp that can give each side some sort of victvict but the white house is clear they're not going to negotiate. >> he's put himself in a really tough position for sure with a lot of people perhaps who shouldn't have so much influence having that over him. more on the economy now. lawmakers in washington continue to crack down on selling sensitive technology to china. the biden administration is

reportedly considering entirely cutting off chinese telecommunications giant huawei. three people familiar with the matter tell reuters the white house has already stopped approving licenses for u.s. companies to export most items to the company. for more on this, let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. what is the threat here? what is the biden administration trying to do? >> the threat here is we would have a serious escalation between the u.s. and china. we've been seeing this play out over the last several years in terms of huawei and whether it's a national security risk or not. that seems to be back on the table. i would put this also at a time when there's obviously a lot of hawkishness around china coming out of washington, there are questions about tiktok as well here in the united states. meanwhile, china has been

closing off certain parts of its economy to u.s. companies at the same time that they've been trying to open some of it up, but all of this is sort of raising a question about big multinational companies, whether they can do business with china and what that ultimately is going to look like. it's no longer just an issue of if you're going to do business in china, what the chinese government is going to do to you, but in fact, given the cross currents, this idea of the u.s. now retaliating against chinese companies, actually whether the hawkishness out of the united states could ultimately put pressure not just on chinese companies, but also on u.s. companies that do business in china. >> i'd love to get an update on this johnson & johnson talcum powder lawsuits. this has been going on a long time. >> this is what they call in legal circles the texas two-step. the texas two-step is this.

there has been this large litigation that's been taking place against j&j for a long time around talcum powder and whether it creates disease and cancer. they've spend $4.5 billion already. what they did -- and you could argue this is clever, you could say it's immemorial. whatever you want to say, they basically tried to hive off that part of the company in a new company. that was the texas two-step. we're going to put it over here and file for bankruptcy over here so the creditors and consumers wouldn't be able to get more money out of it. a judge said, no, this is ridiculous. you can't pretend this is no longer johnson & johnson. but most importantly, this is

going to help customers who have been affected at johnson & johnson. it's going to make it harder for other companies in the future to try to play this texas two-step game. >> the precedent would be set. that would not be a good thing probably in the judge's point of view. andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," missing monkeys, a dead vulture and damaged habitats, something very strange is happening at the dallas zoo. also a 12-year long fight over an alaskan bay ends with environmental protections for one of the world's most valuable salmon fisheries. and mara can't well joins us just ahead on "morning joe." s us just ahead on "morning joe. struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1?

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oh my goodness, our control room is full this morning. look at that. everybody came to work and we appreciate you. thank you very much. right there, the amazing staff of "morning joe" and, dan, just keep it clean shaven. thank you very much. new this morning the environmental protection agency has announced it will enact clean water act, protections for bristol bay located north of the alaska peninsula. the move will ban removal of mine waste in the watershed, which is home to the breeding ground of alaskan salmon. it will also block a contentious gold and copper mine project known as the pebble mine. joining us is democratic senator maria cantwell of washington, the first u.s. senator to oppose the pebble mine and has been a leading voice against the

project for more than a decade. thank you very much for being on this morning. explain to our viewers what's at stake. >> well, the analysis that the biden administration is putting out this morning shows that a $2.5 billion salmon economy and 15,000 jobs could be ruined if a gold mine is built at the headwaters of one of the nation's and the world's largest sockeye runs. they're saying this is not compatible and it shouldn't move forward. >> is there any economic argument for allowing those mines to move forward in some way? >> well, i could tell you this, salmon returning to their spawning grounds don't need to flow through toxic waste. this analysis by epa shows there is up to 200 miles of streams and over 1,000 acres of wetlands that will be impacted just by building the mine.

so this is the wrong idea in the wrong place at therotime. so what epa is doing is the extreme leadership necessary to preserve the resource called the salmon. we applaud them for that. >> we'll be following this. also as chairwoman of the senate commerce committee, you have pledged to get to the bottom of both the southwest airlines meltdown from the holiday season. who could forget that? as well as the failure of the faa's system. what do you hope to learn? >> aviation in the information age has laid bare some real challenge that is the airline industry has to address. they need a workforce that can perform even during the most

extreme weather conditions to communicate to consumers about what's happening. and we need the reliability of a system to constantly update and print information and not be subject to just one person not performing their job and leaving the nation without an air transportation system. so we are going to be having a series of hearings on this. >> senator, good to see you this morning. we wanted to talk to you about the idea of the debt ceiling limit. there is a meeting between president biden and kevin mccarthy. what are the conversations you're having across the aisle in the upper chamber? are the senate republicans going along with these negotiating tactics being flashed by their colleagues in the house? >> they're not being loud and vocal about it yet, but we don't need the drama from when we almost went over the fiscal cliff. we shocked america to its core

wondering what was going to happen in our financial markets if we did default. the full faith and credit of the united states is here. let's not play politics. let's give the certainty, the economic numbers we just saw from last quarter are good. let's continue that. let's not rile everything up just to play politics in the house. >> senator maria cantwell of washington, thank you very much. we really appreciate it. a wild story continues out of dallas where officials at the zoo there believe two monkeys that are missing may have been taken. it's the latest in a string of troubling incidents involving animal there is. let's go to morgan chesky with the latest. what is going on there? >> reporter: i wish i could tell you. that's the question everyone has on their minds today after the fourth incident at the dallas zoo in just the past few weeks. officials hearsay they have, quote, clear evidence that this monkey habitat was compromised.

that's why it leads them to believe that someone, somewhere, somehow took these two monkeys. these two emperor tam rinds that are now at the center of a growing investigation. it's the curious face behind dallas zoo's latest mystery. two rare emperor tam rinds first labeled missing, now considered taken. the first warning sign came monday morning. the zoo said their animal care teamed noticed the monkeys were missing saying it was clear their habitat has been intentionally compromised. >> the more i hear about this, the more i think there is mal intent behind it. >> reporter: the two monkeys have special dietary and habitat needs are not getting the care required. the tam rinds are considered friendly to humans and are very

popular on the black market. >> you can take an animal out of the wild, but you cannot take the wild out of the animal. for anybody who thinks i can turn this to a good pet, you're wrong. >> reporter: this is the fourth animal mystery in less than a month. on january 13th, a clouded leopard was reported missing and then found. on january 21st, an endangered vulture was discovered dead. >> what we found was deemed to be very suspicious. >> reporter: the repeated issues causing other zoos to scrutinize their own security in an effort to keep every creature safe and sound. >> my fear is it's going to get so bad that we have to make so many different types of barriers and security that we lose the ability to connect people to animals. that's really a sad state. >> reporter: now the dallas zoo says they've increased the number of security cameras on

premises and added additional foot patrols. as of right now, no suspects. they are working with the dallas police. important to note here, this enclosure that these monkeys were kept in not too far away from that enclosure where this clouded leopard was kept that got out and was returned back on january 13th. a big concern is the fact that the weather has turned here in texas. the zoo is closed due to inclement weather. these monkeys are native to the amazon. >> let's hope they're safe and returned soon. crazy what's going on there. morgan chesky, thanks so much. next, the new yorker calls it sunny with a chance of murder. natasha lyonne and benjamin brat join us. benjamin brat join us.

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and that's it. look at the time stamp. she was cleaning mr. kane's presidential suite, his laptop was open and she saw this. >> how do you know this was kane's suite? >> the ceilings. the presidential suite is the only one with these high ceilings. >> she could have just let it go, but she did something about it. she took a picture for evidence. i think he caught her doing, had his body guards take her home and killed her. you think it's a coincidence she was killed? >> there's no solid connection. >> can we just call the fbi? >> that's a clip from peacock's new series "poker face" starring natasha lyonne. she finds herself on the run by looking to bring down powerful

forces and bring them to justice. natasha is also an executive producer and writer for the show. and the creator ryan johnson is here. ryan was here last month for "glass onion". >> couldn't get enough of me. you're welcome. >> natasha, the idea for the show was born at a party in l.a. when you were seated next to ryan and started talking about crime tv a little bit. >> i think we're sort of riffing. we know each other and like each other through ryan's brilliant wife karina longworth. i guess you'd seen "russian doll" and you were having this idea of i got to make this show. i guess that part's on you. >> i'd been kicking around the

idea because i missed the type of tv shows i crew up watching like rockford files and magnum p.i. the thing they all had in common was they all had an incredibly charismatic personality at the center holding it all together. when i saw natasha in russian doll, i said this could be it. >> i saw an opportunity to work with ryan. whatever it takes. >> i love how you draw your chi. benjamin, you play a bit of a villain on this show. tell us how you came to it and the character you play. >> yeah. i played a guy named cliff lagrand who's the head of security for the frost casino. he's sort of the duiful soldier. when this one here does something to upset the casino

management, by the end of the episode she's on the run and i'm set to chase here. it's kind of the ticking clock element of the series. every subsequent episode really is kind of its own standalone movie where she encountered a murder and she in the seeking of truth aims to solve it. she can't help herself and she does. it's a nod back to the series we grew up with. >> what you were so excited about working with ryan johnson when you've seen all his other projects, he creates sort of a universe. what is it like inside that world? >> i mean, the truth is i know it's a morning show, but on a deep level, you know, i hasn't had the opportunity to work with that many legit giants. sorry, i know you're here, but it really is very different.

you discover very quickly that it's not a coincidence. there is a joy to it in a way that sometimes work can be very stressful because they're trying to fix what's broken and with ryan there's a real sense of the captain is on deck and there's sort of the joy of a great idea that's going to be executed with utter exactitude but it's still going to feel buoyant and alive and wholly original. >> it was fun, because that process should be fun. in the hands of someone like ryan and in her presence, it certainly is. >> you have some experience with weekly murder or mystery of the week in your background. this is a quirky different tone. is that something that drew you to it? >> i think the quirkiness is personified by this one here. >> i don't think i'm that

quirky. [ laughter ] >> it makes me think that the world's gone mad wherever i see it because i'm like surely it's not the first time we've seen someone who's not like everybody else. >> we're in this really weird place where truth on some level has almost lost its relevancy where its potency to secure a righteous or just outcome is diminished. that's what i love about this show. it's sort of a threeback to this idea that truth should serve justice. despite her circumstances, she's on the run, she doesn't have much material to her name. she can't help be a warrior for justice. that's really satisfying to watch, especially given the times we're in where liars seem

to fail upwards and get a slap on the wrist and still succeed. >> this is natasha's character realizing to solve the death, she may have to do it by herself. >> so she was a friend of mine. look, you can see here she tried to call me the night she died. i don't know why. and then i thought, her personal belongings. >> personal belongings? >> her phone. if i could just see her phone. maybe she called someone else, texted someone else, sent an e-mail or something. >> yeah. i can't help you with that. >> but it's here right in the thing with the cage, with the bars? >> in jail? why would her phone be in jail? >> smaller bars. >> little jail. >> where you lock up the evidence. the locker, the evidence locker. jesus! >> you know why it's in the evidence locker? because it's evidence.

>> go ahead. >> oh, may i. >> once the coroner's determination is official, it's all sent to the next of kin, probably her mom. when you're a cop, you don't just toss evidence around. hey. look, working this county, i see this more than i'd like, domestic abuse escalating to something like this. it's usually the result of a pattern. you were not responsible for that pattern. >> it isn't that. look, jerry was [ bleep ], but there's something off here. >> brian, i was going to ask you why you wanted natasha to front this series? >> thinking back to "columbo." i didn't watch it for the

mysteries. i watched it to hang out with peter falk every week. natasha has that charisma. i wanted a collaborator. with her work on "russian dolls," she's the martest person i know. to be able to build this from the ground up is a true collaboration. that's been the true joy. >> that joy shows up in the series. the first four episodes of "poker face" are on peacock. benjamin bratt, natasha lyonne, thanks for being here. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." a new clinical study showed that centrum silver supports cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say... ♪ youuu did it! ♪

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political news on george santos. >> our friend jake sherman just tweeted in a closed republican meeting george santos told his colleagues he'll recuse himself from sitting on committees. he was placed on two, nothing that required a security clearance, but kevin mccarthy gave george santos committee assignments. santos says he won't sit on them for the time being. he's under investigation by the house ethics committee and several external legal probes. >> we'll be following that. we'll see you tomorrow. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage after a short break. he'll be joined by homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. have a great day, everyone.

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good morning. 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. new developments surrounding the beating death of tyre nichols. we're learning two more police officers were relieved of duty and three emts fired.