good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. we are watching along with you. the grief and pain evaluate on the faces of mourners who are now arriving at the church in memphis for tyre nichols funeral. his mother speaks of hope. what can possibly make his sacrifice worth the agony? also this hour, shocking numbers from our new nbc poll that could throw the presidential race into chaos before it even gets going. 2/3 of the country don't want donald trump or joe biden to

run. plus, more than 12 million people are facing ice storm warnings as the deep south gets hit with a deep freeze. hundreds of flights cancelled, roads covered with ice. it's made traveling dangerous and it's contributed to at least six deaths. but we begin in memphis where starting an hour from now, the funeral for tyre nichols will attempt to take the focus away from the horrific images of his brutal death, and instead honor his life and the man his mother called a quote, beautiful soul. mourners have begun to arrive right now at mississippi boulevard christian church, less than 20 miles from where the 29-year-old lived and died. his death, the latest rallying cry for a nation sickened by watching the same images play out on police body cameras again and again. the fact that george floyd's brother and breonna taylor's mother will attend today's funeral, underscoring the sad

truth that past calls for change have gone unfulfilled. reverend al sharpton was asked earlier today what comfort he can give the family at a time like this? >> the only comfort that i can offer them is that we will stand with them and fight in the name of tyre and others to try and change the legal and legislative structure that deals with policing in this country. this is not about a sprint movement. it's about a marathon. you run until you break the ribbon, and we're going to do that. >> we saw just about 90 minutes ago, the casket carrying tyre nichols body being windshield into the church. we are expecting roughly 2,500 people to attend the funeral, and along with the chance for loved ones to grieve, cry and as the pastor put it, simply be together, today's service will also put a bold exclamation point on the demands being shouted from streets all over country to those in power.

what are you doing to stop this from happening again? i want to bring in nbc's, eddie glaude, msnbc contributor. and thank you all for being here. antonia, set the scene for us. >> well, chris, it's a heavy and somber morning, and where i am people are starting to fill in. the parking lot is almost full, and they expect that there's likely going to be overflow, some people who aren't going to be able to physically attend the funeral set to start in about an hour here. you mentioned this a bit. for anyone who hasn't been to a church like this one, a historic black church, you are going to hear a focus on tyre nichols' life, a celebration of who he was as a person, a son, a father, someone who loves skate boarding and photography, had

friends all over this country, but you're also going to be given a message, a message that connects tyre to the history, the gravity of this city of memphis. i have had the chance to talk to the senior pastor turner here over the last several days, and i know that you're going to hear several people connect tyre's story to the assassination of dr. king, the activism, the organizing that has happened in this city for generations now, and you're going to hear very specific calls for action and calls for reform, and so it's a celebration of his life and also a desire to make his death, you know, spur action, take on meaning, really send a message to the rest of this country, and it comes at a really important moment as this investigation continues to unfold, as we hear from the d.a. that additional charges could be brought not just to the five officers at the center of all of this, but to additional people, officers, emts, others who were responsible for the police reports that night, and we got news from our affiliate,

reporting just last night. they got access to the personnel files of the five officers involved here, and four of the five officers have a record that shows their own infraction. i have to mention one because it struck me. one of the officers involved in the beating of tyre nichols that resulted in his death has himself a history of reckless driving, the accusation that began this traffic stop in the first place. he was put on unpaid leave for two days and sent to rmedial driving school because rushing to the scene of a call, he caused a three-car crash, and this is just one of the many examples. others involved, failure to fill out important paperwork or use of force issues, and so it's raising a lot of questions as i talk to residents in the city about what people in this department may have known about the history of these five officers, what kind of culture has been allowed to fester there, and what kind of additional calls for accountability or reform might

be necessary, and everyone that i talked to here thinks that this extends beyond just these five, and you're going to hear some of that message today. it's church and it's focused on tyre's life. they want tyre's life to take on a criminal meaning and real action now, chris. >> there is, eddie, for this funeral, a lot, right? the pastor of the church, dr. lawrence turner said we get so zeroed in on how tyre nichols died, we don't get a chance to recognize that he lived before that moment. it's a sad fact. we have talked about these names before, george floyd, eric garner, we know them because of how they died, not how they lived. talk to us about why it's so important to remember the life of tyre nichols in this moment. >> well, it's important because the way they died was a result of their dehumanization. the fact that they were treated as less than were examples of a population of folk who were

devalued. it's important in these moments with any life to tell the full story of the life lived, that the life is not just simply a kind of result of tragic circumstance or cruel outcome, of barbaric behavior, but there was love, there were joys, there were triumphs, there were desires, there were broken-hearted moments, there were actual moments of elation to tell the story of the full human being. often times we don't see the full human being. we're either these kind of objects of scorn that is to say people who are prone to crime, chris, or were they objects of pity, people who need our concern, as opposed to being the full human beings that we are. so eulogies are important in these moments to give us a sense of the full life lived because the life that was taken from us was dehumanized, denied dignity. >> and charles, as antonia was pointing out, we know that the police brutality that led to his

death will be a part of today's funeral. reverend al sharpton is giving the eulogy. he predicted that nichols will be one of those people that forces the country to deal with questions of police abuse. i want to play a little bit of what he said yesterday. >> we are here to establish and proclaim that we are going to continue to fight this fight around police brutality and killing. >> yes. >> until we get federal laws changed. what happened to tyre is a disgrace to this country. >> we've heard that before, and i know, charles, that rev would be the first person to acknowledge that, so why should this time, how could this time be any different? >> well, chris, one of the themes underlying today's entire conversation as you look at the

funeral of tyre nichols is the notion of legacy. funerals are a celebration of one's legacy, and one's life, and in part, when you're thinking about legacy as it relates to tyre nichols, in the past, the question of whether the country had the moral fortitude necessary to enact the appropriate reform around law enforcement has been met with the resounding no. but it's important to remember that at one point, people sincerely doubted our country's fortitude in terms of being able to abolish slavery. they doubted the moral fortitude around being able to do away with segregation, and so this is another example of how the legacy of so many is critical in moving the needle forward and helping the country establish the moral fortitude necessary to do what is right, and in this case, doing what is right means addressing at the policy level, at the federal level, the broken policing system in america. we have to shift to a public

safety model. we have to shift to a model that is rooted in service and protection, rather than violence and aggression, and we have to address the notion that black bodies are not dealt with the same way as people of other races, colors and ethnicities. that is something that i think the legacy of tyre nichols plays a part in moving the conversation forward. we did not have a george floyd police act before george floyd, even though it died on the senate floor, there is now an opportunity for senate democrats to revive that measure and see if they are willing to fight. do they have the moral fortitude to fight for what is right with respect to police reform, and so that is the question that tyre nichols legacy helps to answer. >> i have been thinking a lot about that big picture question, eddie, of willingness to change, and so last night, i went back again to james baldwin's deeply thought provoking essay, "nothing personal" on isolation,

on police brutality. you pointed out a year or so ago, he wrote it under the shadow of medgar evers assassination in 1963 is you called that essay a eulogy of sorts. i wonder, would your eulogy today for tyre nichols come to a different conclusion than baldwin did? is the call to action the same? >> wow, would it be different? no. there at the root of it, chris, is this refusal of the country to comes to terms with who and what it is. baldwin not only wrote about police generally but black police but how race shapes the way they inhabit that culture, live that culture. it's interesting that you brought that up. we can talk about the framing from the 1968 safe streets act to the war on crime and to how all of that has increased the

mass incarceration, led to the militarization of the police, the way in which communities are over policed and over surveilled and under protected. baldwin was talking about a general framework of a community that had to be contained, a community that wasn't thought to be a kind of critical feature of american life. so the short answer to your question, chris, is that the conclusion would be the same. the country still hasn't groan grown up. we refuse to believe who we are. diversity is con switchtive of who we are. we will find ourselves here over and over again. >> i hope you'll come back. i keep, again, going back to a couple of words that he used and you used in your afterward, which were terror and love. i hope we have a chance to talk about that again. eddie glaude, always great to

have you, and charles coleman, antonia hylton, thank you for your fantastic reporting we appreciate it. the funeral is expected to start in an hour after a delay in weather and travel. guad venegas is covering the storm in memphis. at this hour, 25 million people across the country are under weather winter advisories. what's going on out there? >> reporter: chris, that is correct. we know that the main cities where this alert is in place. dallas, oklahoma city, austin, and little rock, arkansas, and here in memphis, authorities are asking people to avoid travel if possible. i have some icicles from the buildings around us. this is what we have, and pretty much everything behind me is frozen, the streets are frozen in memphis. the temperature did rise a little bit. it's about 30 degrees. when i last checked a few minutes ago, so it's getting a little more wet, but it's even slipperier than it was before. we have seen a lot of people

fall crossing the street, you know, some vehicles have been making their way through memphis, but it's very dangerous to drive in these conditions, and that's why authorities are asking people to avoid travel. we know that in texas, state authorities are now reporting seven people dead as a result from accidents that are related to the weather, and as we read the information that comes from texas authorities, it's once again all of these reports indicating individuals traveling in vehicle hit a patch of an icy road, and that's what happens. a lot of vehicles are driving down the road, they feel like they have control and they hit one patch of ice and lose control. seven people reported dead as of now in the state of texas. and the roads here as i mentioned are basically frozen. i have been saying this all morning. if we had ice skates, you could ice skate up and down the streets here in memphis. this ice storm alert is in place today through the evening, and into tomorrow, so throughout the night, they're asking people to

stay home if they can. >> guad venegas, you stay safe out there. we thank you for your reporting. breaking news in the classified documents scandal. new details just out in the doj's search of president biden's vacation home, and yet another republican now expected to challenge donald trump in 2024. are the flood gates opening? plus, george santos on the record in a tv interview. the big question, did he do himself any favors? you're watching chris jansing reports only on msnbc. you're watching chris jansing reports only on msnbc. ] are you okay? oh, it's just a cold. if you have high blood pressure, a cold is not just a cold. coricidin is the #1 doctor recommended cold and flu brand. specially designed for people with high blood pressure. be there for life's best moments. trust coricidin. ♪ music (“i swear”) plays ♪ jaycee tried gain flings for the first time the other day... and forgot where she was. [buzz] you can always spot a first timer. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze.

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now to the breaking news on that fbi search of president biden's beach house, his personal attorney says no documents with classified markings were found. three sources familiar with the situation tell nbc news that the fbi conducted a search this morning of the president's residence in rehoboth beach, delaware.

i want to bring in nbc's kristen welker at the white house for us. when did fbi agents get there. how long were they there, and did they find anything at all? >> reporter: let me walk you through the statement we just got from bob bauer who's the president's personal attorney and that helps to answer some of your questions but i'll do some analysis into that on the other side. he says the doj's planned search of the president's rehoboth residence is conduct instead coordination and cooperation with the president's attorneys, has concluded the search was conducted from 8:30 a.m. to noon. no documents with classified markings were found consistent with the process in wilmington, the doj took further review. some materials and handwritten notes that appear to relate to his time as vice president. that last line is significant, chris, because they wouldn't have taken these notebooks and other items if they weren't of some interest. so we'll have to see what, if anything, comes of that. of course broadly speaking this comes against the backdrop of

the investigation into president biden's handling of classified documents after materials with classified markings were first found at his washington, d.c. think tank in november before the midterm elections. we know that that office has now been searched. his wilmington home has been searched, where more classified documents were found. the white house has been very careful to try and draw a sharp distinction between president biden's handling of classified documents and former president trump's handling of classified documents. of course his mar-a-lago estate was searched when he refused to turn them over. that was under a subpoena. in this instance, this search today of president biden's rehoboth beach property was not under subpoena. this was under cooperation with the president's legal team. broadly speaking, though, chris, this is yet another data point, yet another development in what has become a real political head wind for this president. next week, he has a state of the union address. sometime after we expect he'll announce his bid for reelection. polling though shows this issue

is neutralized in the minds of americans. a majority of them think both president biden and former president trump have mishandled classified documents. it's not clear what the political impact will be long-term. >> there's some other new poll numbers that show the two 2024 front runners against a daunting reality. 2/3 of voters think both joe biden and donald trump should not run for reelection. the nbc news poll reveals that 60% of voters have reservations or are very uncomfortable with biden and trump running for the white house again. can those numbers be overcome or will they encourage challengers to enter the race. let's bring in nbc's ali vitali. ashley parker, an msnbc political analyst. ashley, these are devastating numbers for both biden and trump. i mean, is there a strategy to overcome them? are you hearing any sense of

concern from either camp of supporters? >> the numbers are devastating, as you said. it's a fascinating new poll. i will say they are in line, somewhat, with other polls we've seen. in a lot of these other polls, there's a second number that's similarly interesting. for as many republicans who would prefer trump not to be the nominee, and as many democrats who would prefer biden not to be the nominee, if they are asked, okay, well, let's say this worst case scenario happens. you're a democrat, would you vote for biden, you're a republican, would you vote for trump, an overwhelming number, not all, but an overwhelming number say, yes, if they are the nominee, they would vote for them. in some ways, the best thing for both candidates to overcome the numbers is to win because there's a lot of democrats who might prefer someone other than biden but will support him if he's their party's nominee, and that's the exact same for a number of republicans when it comes to former president trump.

>> isn't this interesting, i mean, you and i have seen each other out there on the campaign trail at various times. it does seem at least on the republican side, i don't know if you just saw somebody ran past you behind you. speaking of hurrying, there do seem to be republicans who seem to be hurrying to get in the race? >> reporter: yeah, everyone is running apparently quite literally in congress, and apparently in south carolina as well. because what we're seeing in these poll numbers is parker's right. she makes it sound easy, but if you win the primary, voters tend to stay primary, in terms of sticking with the republican nominee if they're republicans, sticking with the democratic nominee if they're democrats. winning out of a primary, might be easier for someone like biden if he decides to run. he's more likely, it seems like, to freeze out anybody in the field as the sitting president, compared to trump who is likely officially in the next two weeks, to get at least one other

challenger in former south carolina governor nikki haley. i have spoken with three sources who are familiar with her roll out, and it's played out as she told me it would, today she sent invitations to would be supporters and backers, inviting them to an event for a special announcement in their words in charleston, south carolina. that's going to be in the middle of the month, february 15th. it looks like at least there, trump is going to be getting his first official challenger, and it's someone from within his own administration's ranks, someone who has national security and foreign policy experience as a former ambassador to the u.n. in the trump administration. as someone who has been a successful two-term governor of a critically important state in south carolina, so there will be at least one, though there are multiple names in the mix right now on the republican side. many of the sources that i have been talking to say that there are at least six to eight

candidates who are actively stacking up, as we see trump have a muted response on the campaign trail in terms of the lack of events that he's doing and on the fundraising front, our colleague jonathan allen reporting on how they are trying to revamp that operation to serve them better in the long haul for this very lengthy primary. >> ashley, i want to also talk about something that was in your paper today, which is rnc planning to ramp up their focus on false disproven election fraud claims. the report, quote, reveals the degree to which republicans continue to trade on former president donald trump's false claims that democrats and their allies rigged his defeat in 2020. the report also acknowledges that the gop's obsession with election fraud has cost the party. how do you balance those two things? >> there's something fascinating you're seeing among the republican base. if you just look back historically with the exception of goldwater, normally when a

candidate loses, democrat or republican, they, a, accept the loss, but they also sort of shrink away, right? hillary spending a lot of time hiking by her house in new york. even someone like senator romney after his defeat in 2012, kind of quietly taking some time before running for senate with little fanfare. now you're seeing with former president trump as case study number one but i could point you to kari lake, for instance, who my colleague just reported is on her way to d.c. right now to appear at the national prayer breakfast to just scheduled vaughn hillyard reported two events in iowa. people who have lost and refused to accept their defeat are now being lionized in the party. it is rare to see people who lose, number one, and who refuse to accept a defeat, number two, being the sorts of people that a traditional political party wants to headline conventions or appear at prayer breakfasts, but that is a dynamic that is going

on right now in the republican base. >> it's going to be fascinating because we went from will anybody challenge trump to trump, haley, hogan, pence, desantis, maybe lake, and that's just for starters. ali vitali, ashley parker, thank you both very much. hope hicks, remember her, made her name navigating big personalities and papering over pr disaster for donald trump. now she'll try to do the same for a controversial name in new york sports. knicks and rangers owner, james dolan. according to the "new york post," dolan hired the former white house communications director after he was ripped by fans and lawmakers alike for using fascial recognition technology to ban some of his critics from madison square garden. no word on how long the two have been working together. in less than an hour, the federal reserve is set to hike rates again. what will their decision tell us about our economy through 2023? plus, the white house

meeting everyone in d.c. will be watching, president biden and speaker mccarthy readying for a show down. that's next on "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. "chris reports" only on msnbc disease for years and the pain in the back of your eye is forcing bad words from your mouth, or...the bags under your eyes are looking more like purses, it's not too late for another treatment option for thyroid eye disease, also known as t-e-d. to learn more visit treatted.com that's treatt-e-d.com. ♪♪ hey dad, i'm almost out. i got you. any questions, chris? all good, thanks maura! healthier is managing all your family's prescriptions in one app.

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we're just minutes away from a big move by the fed, expected to hike interest rates for the eighth time in a year, but this time by less than it has before. it's a sign the fed's master plan to bring down inflation is working, even though other parts of the economy, like consumer spending and retail sales are slipping. nbc's brian chung following all of this for us. if we put this together, and the fed only raises as expected a quarter point, does that mean the worst is over? >> no, and the reason why is because inflation as of the last reading was still 6.5%, and where the fed wants to see that is 2%. the decline we have seen from the 9% in the middle of last year, to 6 1/2%, americans aren't observing that at the store. they aren't feeling that relief. the federal reserve is not done. for what it's worth, what we have seen on the action side of things is they are creating this off ramp to at some point later this year stop raising interest rates entirely. keep in mind the campaign they have been embarking on in the

last year or so has been ratcheting up borrowing costs, the fastest pace we have seen in decades to slow the economy. there's a lag impact. when they raise interest rates tomorrow, we're not going to feel that until six months down the line. the mission is far from over. >> the good news is the stock market was strong in january, right, and i think it was nasdaq's best month since july. >> it was, yep. >> is the momentum going to continue? >> well, look, with the stock markets, i don't have a crystal ball. >> why are we down 300 now? >> interesting, there was data this morning that showed that job openings were larger than economists expected. that's concerning because when you think about what the fed is trying to do here, that day hoping that the economy is going to slow and that employers are going to perhaps pull back on how aggressively they're going to hire. that hasn't happened based on the data we have looked at. by and large, the overall story is it's a weird economy, we have

3.5% unemployment, that's matches a 50-year low. as the federal reserve ratchets interest rates up, they're worried they're going to have to give up employment. people might lose their jobs. does that escalate as they raise interest rates, something we'll have to watch. >> brian, always great to have you on the program. refusing to budget, president biden's meeting with speaker mccarthy, the speaker's reaction before he heads into the oval office. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. "chris jg reports" only on msnbc i love to help people understand the world through their lens and invest accordingly. you can call us christmas eve at four o'clock in the morning. we're gonna always make sure that you have all of the financial tools and support to secure your financial future. that means a lot for my community and for every community.

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doesn't know what looking sorry looks like. >> i know that a lot of people want to create this narrative that i faked my way to congress which is absolutely categorically false, i have worked hard, i have built ground up a career. through experience and through knowledge and through self-education, and, you know, i think it's amazing that i have to sit here and be spoken down to on a regular basis, yet again by the media. >> let's bring in nbc's garrett haake on capitol hill. it's a familiar voice, right, to go after the media when things aren't going well for you. having said that, i was wondering what he hoped to accomplish with this, you know, did he think that he could help himself, how closely the folks on the hill who are in the republican caucus are paying attention to it, what can you tell us? >> yeah, chris, look, santos did

not have to dodge any tough questions in the 13 minute interview. he wasn't asked any. this was about as friendly a venue as he could have possibly hoped for. the view from the santos campaign, office, may be this. he has to start telling his story at some point, you probably want to start with the most friendly outlet you possibly can and one that's going to speak to your base voters. if santos can sort of solidify things for his base supporters, solidify things that may not have followed his associated scandals as closely as, you know, viewers of other channels and people who might be more skeptical of him, he can at least keep the bottom from falling out any farther. it's possible this interview, you know, made some progress in that regard here. he, you know, repeated complaints about the media, i have heard from every politician i have ever covered. in terms of actually getting, you know, lessening the heat around him and answering

substantiative questions about the various things we know that he has lied about, it's done nothing to get the rest of us from backing off. he's still facing difficult questions every time he leaves his office, and for the time being he's still off of his committees until he says he is cleared of any wrong doing. chris, that could be quite some time given that we know various investigations including criminal investigations are still ongoing. >> garrett, stay with me, at this hour, high stakes, low expectations for the first meeting between president biden and kevin mccarthy since he became speaker. the conversation is expected to focus largely on the debt ceiling where frankly they're worlds apart. though mccarthy told punch bowl, quote, we're eventually going to have to dance together, when do you want to play the music, now or later? i want to bring in nbc white house correspondent mike memoli along with garrett. what is the president's strategy here? >> well, chris, the president is going into this discussion today to speaker mccarthy as it

relates to the debt ceiling, knowing full well what happened when he was vice president 13 years ago, 12 years ago, the last time we came close to a debt default. it's the idea that before the president wants to negotiate with republicans, he thinks republicans need to negotiate with republicans. as the president has been saying repeatedly, show me your budget and i'll show you mine. the white house committing as they're required to release their budget proposal in the coming weeks, and they want to see what republicans are going to put together to match the rhetoric. they say they want to cut spending, howy going to do? is it on social security and medicare, defense spending, other potentially popular areas where the budget cuts might be unpopular with the american people? that's really what the president is trying to do here, to draw the republicans out. the speaker is holding the high ground in this respect, this has to be a negotiation. i think if you gave truth serum to the president, he knows this will be something that's

negotiated. for now, they are saying that the full faith and credit of the united states should not be held hostage to political demands of the moment. >> to the point of negotiation, garrett and if he's right and at some point they're going to have to dance together, will the music start playing before the u.s. is on the edge of default? >> reporter: when it comes to dealing with congress, the answer is probably not. to extend your dancing metaphor, both men are waiting for the other to lead, and that's the bottom line here. biden doesn't see a reason to come off his position and speaker mccarthy has yet to come forward with specific cuts. the challenge that mccarthy, is one we saw play out when he was elected speaker in the first place, he has an unruly caucus, and they don't agree amongst themselves on what they would like to see cut and how to meet their ambitious goals of cutting the deficit and spending. there are conversations going on between the caucuses and committees, and sub groups

within the republican caucus to come up with the agreement. ultimately they're going to have to take that first to the rest of their fellow republicans, and then ultimately the white house if they're going to have some kind of agreement. the idea that this is going to get done well in advance of any fiscal deadlines without the markets freaking out, tends to fly in the face of our experience covering congress when it comes to the fiscal deadlines. >> people want to know, when does the rubber meet the road, when do we start doing 24/7, we got to get this done. what's the drop dead date, i guess, is essentially what i'm asking you, garrett. >> the treasury department says right now they think it's sometime in june, but as we know, that date can sometimes be extended. to me, if tax receipts come in well this year, and the treasury pushes it back, what you could see is a natural deadline could be the start of the august recess, for example, congress tends to get most focused when their own time away from the capitol comes into question.

if the next date from treasury slides that far, that would be the date i would be looking at here. they haven't begun the budgeting process they have to go through under normal circumstances, yet in this congress. we're just a very long way from real substantiative discussions and answers on these topics. garrett haake, mike memoli. >> we've got a big programming note for you. tonight, white house chief of staff ron klain is sitting down with lawrence o'donnell for one of his final interviews before leading office. watch the last word with lawrence o'donnell, tonight, 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. in minutes we'll go back to memphis, where mourners are gathered to honor the life of tyre nichols, her mother convinced some good must come from her son's death. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc doors can lead us toward what's important.

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want to continue the important conversation about whether this life, this time, will lead to change. i want to bring in keith mayes, associate professor of african-american and african studies at the university of minnesota. he is author of an upcoming book about race and special education called "the unteachables." keith, it's good to have you here. another black man is dead at the hands of police, and again, you have people saying this must be the time that things change, and i wonder if you're hopeful? >> you know, chris, i actually am hopeful this time around. i think when i gave a few interviews when the tragic death of george floyd occurred, i was very unhopeful at the situation because i kept seeing that no matter how many black lives are lost at the hands of police, it

seems like we didn't have the political will to make the kind of change that was necessary to see reform, but i think this time around with the officers being african-american who were involved with the tragic death of tyre nichols, i think that it changes the dynamics of the conversation because this is about -- this is not about black and white. this may be more about black and blue, and i don't mean in the adversarial sense of the black community being against police officers, but it does demonstrate that the issues that are inside the police departments and law enforcement across this country are systemic problems as we have been saying all along. so i think that this time there could be an opportunity here to make real change because of the racial dynamics.

>> i mean, we should say it's in the as if nothing has been done over the years. we have seen much broader use of body cameras. cities are investing, many cities and communities, training around the use of force has changed. just one example, new york city ended qualified immunity for police. but what's the next realistic step? >> the next realistic step is changes in the federal law. and i think that oftentimes federal law follows on the heels of what takes place legislatively and that the policy at the local levels. it's great to see that new york city changed its qualified immunity policies, but i want to see that happen across the country in different cities in the united states. i would like to see states pass laws for police reform, and then maybe that will galvanize

congress to do something, but, again, i think that if we continue to keep the focused attention on what happens inside precincts and less on what's wrong with black folks, particularly young black males, i think that we have an opportunity to make real substantiative change. >> so i'm wondering where the conversation goes? because i don't think there's any doubt about the outrage that is out there, the outrage we saw through george floyd and something did happen, right? i mean, at least a proposal was made, and so now president biden wants to go back to the george floyd policing act. but does public sentiment, does public outrage turn into action, or how do you turn it into action maybe is the better question? >> i think we continue to create momentum at the grass roots

level. i think we use these moments as tragic as they are, as educational campaigns in moments to galvanize and garner more support from people who may have been indifferent or even hostile to the issue of police reform. i think that because these tragedies are so often, i think we have the opportunity to educate generations of young black, white and brown folks about the issues. i'm old enough to remember the rodney king incident, but it seems as though the social media and with this focused hyper attention on police community relations, it appears as though these tragedies are happening more often, but it's just that we have our focused attention on them, and we may have a camera on them often times, so i think that we continue to build momentum and educate the public

to demand that washington and state houses across the country do the right thing. body cameras are an important step. changing qualified immunity policies are an important first step but we need to do so much more, and i'm very hopeful, even more so than i was with the tragedy after the tragedy of george floyd here in minneapolis. >> keith mayes it's good to end this hour on a hopefully note. thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. i want to note as we wait for the funeral to begin, we just learned in spite of weather delays, vice president harris has arrived in memphis, and in fact, ben crump, who is the family's attorney, said tyre nichols mom got a call from the vice president, and it helped her. he says harris managed to get a smile out of her, a woman who has been remarkably positive and hopeful and determined that her son's death will not be in vain.

that is going to do it for us this hour. the church in memphis filling up for the celebration of the life of tyre nichols, those services, again, set to begin shortly, so stay with msnbc for full coverage from memphis. we will be there as soon as it starts. katie tur reports is up next. katie tur reports is up next , blocking heartburn before it starts. one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

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