relation to our technology here in the united states, israel, the british, where do they rank? foreign away, our number one adversary and they have certainly in their sights. there is no doubt in my mind that china is absolutely the greatest threat to the united states when it comes to the intelligence game. again, no surprise that they are trying to as the general just said trying to conduct an aerial surveillance. one thing though yasmin to just, i want to throw one more thing into the conversation because seven days, ago i think we're losing -- several days ago the u.s. announced a renewed basic agreements. of the military presence in the philippines. that's in direct correlation to the defense in taiwan and -- with china. we are doing a lot. i think a lot of people are concerned about balloons, around the world, the united states is really taking measures, a natural defense strategy that was just

announced. and it's basing agreements with the philippines. upping our game against china, and in fact the biden administration is continuing the trump administration policies on this. there actually is some bipartisan consensus on what to do about china in the future. >> all right mark polymeropoulos, you will stick with me hopefully. general steph twitty, you are sticking with me as well. so thank you for that. we are following this breaking news everybody, top of the hour. 3 pm here on the east coast. i am yasmin vossoughian, you are watching msnbc. we are taking a look at images of the chinese spy balloon that was spotted over the carolina coast. we have now learned just in the last ten minutes or, so that spy balloon has in fact been shot down over the carolina coast. seems as if in the atlantic ocean, we are gonna wear now from u.s. officials that they are currently gathering up the debris or attempting to gather up the debris. as i five conversation was general tweety along with mark polymeropoulos and dan duluth for the last hour or so, the likelihood is for the own

intelligence gathering to be happening here when it comes to that debris and what they can really kind of glean from this chinese spy balloon. we will be learning more over the next couple of hours as we learn how this operation actually went down really and what china's intentions were and the timing of course of all of this as we talked about this diplomatic dance happening. overseas. want to bring back in if we can to the conversation dan de luz, who is standing by for us and has been following this. dan if you will, kind of bring us up to date on what we have been learning so far? now of course breaking news at the spy balloon has in fact been shot down? >> yes we have really seen the end of this episode, the chapter of the episode. since we learned that a chinese surveillance balloon according to the pentagon was spotted floating over u.s. airspace. we first learned about it when it was over in montana, and made its way through the continental u.s. to the heartland over missouri.

and it up in north carolina and south carolina today. then over the atlantic ocean, the u.s. is down this balloon. as you have said, they are now trying to recover whatever debris that they can and to exploit whatever equipment they can retrieve. anthony blinken, secretary of state postponed a really important significant visit to china yesterday. this whole balloon episode came about so it is obviously aggravated tensions between the two countries. we should add that according to china, they say this was a harmless weather balloon and not a spy air ship. that pentagon rejects that characterization. i think there's really, many questions here. one of which is what we don't know about what the chinese have been doing prior to this. are there other instances of similar balloons in and around

north america and the united states or possibly drones? one of the chinese been up to and maybe the intelligence community knows but they have been shared that with the public because it's classified. i think it will be a lot of activity around the intelligence committee in coming days. >> yes, that certainly is a big question. i will bring marc polymeropoulos if we still have him. guys do we still have mark? back into the conversation along with general stuff tweety, i feel like mark you can weigh in on that question that then just posed which is, what have the chinese been up to up until now? considering we are now learning of this by balloon that is now subsequently been shot down. what else were they doing? >> so you know reportedly there has been other instances of a balloon like this, over u.s. territory. perhaps not as provocative and provocative manner because this kind of at the jet stream

across the continent and united states, we also know the chinese operates by satellites. and so this has to do with intelligence gathering, this is what adversaries do. i think back even, a little bit different but think back to several years ago when the u.s. and russia had an open skies treaty. that means we allow surveillance flights over each other's territories. we don't have a treaty like that with china but, again that's the second oldest profession and countries are going to spy on each other. difference here of course the chinese got caught. it will not stop, them they will continue on this. pat again they operate you know consolation, spy satellites as well to do what i think a lot of us think is actually more advanced collection than what this balloon was due-ing. >> here is a, thing as we talk about kind of this impending diplomatic conversation general which will eventually happen right? as mark said a little bit earlier in the last hour, it's eventually going to blow over. they will have to talk through it. who has to say that president xi does not say, you are doing

it too? it is not like the united states isn't engaged in surveilling china and so how does that go? >> i think that the difference is when it comes to airspace, until we have satellites of just like the chinese do have satellites up, then of course yes we are monitoring the chinese and they are monitoring us. but this is a blatant, provocative when you see a balloon over u.s. air space like this, then i think it becomes a game-changer. i do not know and cannot remember us ever putting a balloon over china. we do put balloons in different types of surveillance things in the south china sea and that's international waters that we are dealing, with even though china's team that that is chinese airspace, that is international waters that we

operate in. i think that's the biggest difference. >> incredibly brazen intelligence gathering when it comes to china putting it directly over the united states. i want to read for folks some reactions getting in from capitol hill as well before i bring in congressman jimmy gomez, who is standing by for. us democrat from california. earlier, chuck schumer tweeting out i strongly come them -- into american airspace and i commend president biden's leadership and taken on the chinese balloon over water to ensure safety for all americans. now we can collect the equipment and analyze the technology used by the ccp. melissa slot, the chinese governments and courage to the airspace is unacceptable and we need to treat it as such. i am glad we shot it down and now there is no risk of civilian casualties, there needs to be consequences for the ccp beyond the -- secretary blinken's trip to beijing. all, right i will ask my panel to send by aunt to bring in congressman jimmy gomes as

well. democrat from california. congressman, thank you for sticking with us. we have been going back and forth a lot on this, breaking news story over the last hour or so. we appreciate you jumping on for us. we are getting word now that this thing has been shot down over the carolina coast. and the atlantic ocean. u.s. government likely gathering the debris now, the question is what we will learn from that debris and what china has already gathered from this balloon. despite the fact they said that it was for whether. what is your reaction? >> first, this was an unacceptable act by china violating american airspace and our sovereignty. reaction from president biden was measured but also proportional to the incident. he took stab, stab military took steps to shoot down the balloon which is the first step to really finding out what was behind the balloon, what were

the intentions? there is a lot of questions to be asked and answered, i think with time we will get that information. this was more of an embarrassment for china when they have one of their spy balloons discovered and then shot down. and the, and it will create more tension between our two countries in the long short and long term. >> unless that slotkin said there needs to be consequences for the ccp beyond the postponement of secretary blinken's trip to beijing, do you agree with that? what should that look like? >> i think first we have to give an assessment of what this actually was. if it was a violation of our airspace because of malicious intent, we have to figure that out and then decide. i think a proportional response will be determined by the president as was the intelligence community. but that, first we want the military and the department of

defense to brief our intel committees and the house and senate and gain of what were the facts behind the situation. >> i want to confirm yes, congressman i want to be clear for folks while you and i are talking, you're showing images that we are taken earlier. all of these images you are seeing now we're images of the shiny spy balloon when they were spotted earlier over the united states. again, we are now getting reports of that fact has been shot down over the ocean, off the carolina coast in which the u.s. government is now gathering that debris. as soon as we get some of those images, in which i am being told our incoming, we will bring those to you. congressman, how worried are you about what else china has been engaged in? also the timing of this balloon? >> i am not worried because as you were mentioning earlier in the segment, our countries are engaged in intelligence gathering in different

capacities. i am not sure what information they were going to get from the balloon that we might not get from say the satellites. i think that this is i don't want to say par over course, this is something we probably the two nations engage in and they just got caught and it's an embarrassment for them. we have to see what was -- what that equipment is all about, what is behind it and what is the intelligence that they were gathering? that will tell our intelligence immunity and not more about their intentions. >> senator schmidt tweeted out that he is glad it's finally down, the damage has already been done. that we need answers from the biden administration on why it took this long to bring the chinese spy balloon down and ensure that this never happens again. do you agree with that? should it have been done sooner? i i don't know what intel that military had, they determined that it was a military or

fiscal threat to the united states and that they took their progress. they took steps i believe now wear appropriate to shooting down over the u.s. international waterways, at the same time out of the range of any kind of civilian major casualties that can occur or anything that could've happened because of the debris. i think they took the appropriate steps, it was not an immediate military or physical threat to the united states. >> what are your concerns when it comes to diplomacy here congressman? we talk a lot about the dance of the united states has to do with china now after this incident and especially because it's an incredibly important relationship considering the geopolitical position that they are in. the relationship that they have with moscow. the situation with ukraine as well and the possibility of aggression towards a key ally to the united states, taiwan, in the future. >> i think the united states

has to be clear and i think we have been that we are going to be locked arms with our allies. everybody from ukraine to south korea to taiwan, to japan that these kind of i would say situations that engages in will not persuade us from living up to our international commitments. and the short term, i think things are going to get more tense and they have already been tense. it just brings our relationship to a new low, at least in the last 30 or 40 years. >> congressman jimmy gomez, congressman from california, we appreciate you jumping on with us. thank you so much. want to bring back and if i can get mark polymeropoulos, general staff to the as well into the conversation. and if the loosest ill and, now we want to talk to him as well. mark, i know you said you use these things before, these balloons. if you can describe for folks

that is, like i asked general in the last hour as well, how is that you choose something like this down but also in the same breath kind of maintain the integrity of it so that the united states can gather intelligence from it right? could i understand what the chinese are trying to do? >> well first of all you know the surveillance platforms that we use for example in afghanistan are much lower altitude. they were tethered to the, ground they provided tremendous situational awareness. at, sometimes that have some kind of advance of violence packages on there where we can see you know the area around the city the enemy. it was incredibly useful. going back to what the first part of your question, i do think there is some merit and you know, despite all of the criticism really on twitter, that the balloon was traversing across the united states, at think there was some merit in having the u.s. military and u.s. intelligence community collect on the balloon itself to see what they would in fact

the chinese balloon was doing. and so, like the end of the day will find out how it was shot down, not entirely clear. and then hopefully, that pay load and some of the equipment there is still intact so we can find out what exactly the chinese we're doing. >> how likely or how quickly do you think it is that we can gather unintelligent from this debris, mark? >> it all depends on what is in fact. i think probably that was a factor in how we brought it down but obviously, won some of the equipment to still be salvageable force anything and. they're not only the equipment that was reported as well, so i think that will be a pretty significant -- again one final point on this, i want to keep reiterating that put this in the context of overall chinese espionage, if this entire affair kind of reignites the conversation about the chinese are doing not only in terms of surveillance but also on human intelligence gathering, that's a good thing. i will say there is a new

committee that was just kind of starting with a new hundred and 18 congress that is looking at the china threat, and then they will tackle this issue quite seriously. >> i believe we're gonna convert mission from the department of defense the u.s. fighter jet shot down that chinese surveillance balloon. we also are getting a statement in from the pentagon and i want to read this for folks. . a little bit long so bear with me as i go through it. this afternoon at the direction of president biden, u.s. fighter aircraft assigned the u.s. military command successfully brought down the high altitude surveillance balloon launched by and belonging to the people's republic of china. over the water of the coast of south carolina and u.s. airspace, the balloon which was being used by the prc, and in that time to surveil strategic sites and the continental u.s. was brought down above u.s. territorial waters. on wednesday, we are talking four days ago now, president biden gave his authorization to take down the surveillance

balloon as soon as the mission could be accomplished without undue risk to american lives under the balloons path. i quickly want to say we are watching the president here, let's listen in. >> earlier, the pentagon to shoot it down on wednesday, as soon as possible. they decided without doing damage to anyone on the ground. they decided that the best time to do that was over water, outside -- 12 mile limit. it successfully was taken down, and i want to compliment our aviators who did it and we'll have more to report on a little later. thank you. >> we are saying the recommendation was from your national -- >> i told them to shoot it down on wednesday. they said let's wait for the safest place to do. it >> wasn't this mean for china relations? >> so the president reiterated

there arriving in maryland today, that in fact he gave the greenlight to take down the spy balloon on wednesday but was advised that they needed to wait until it got to a safer area and which they would not cause harm to anybody on the ground when they in fact took this thing down. as general tweety has talked about us over the last, hour it's about three busloads big. and it's not a small piece of equipment that they were taken down, if you imagine it's being taken over, taken down overland it can cause significant harm to three folks on land more populated area has one of the reasons why it seems they waited until this thing got off their carolina coast off of north and south carolina coast. it was taken on over the atlantic ocean. we are getting reports that they are gathering that debris of course to assess in fact what china was actually going for. let me bring in general tweety

back to the conversation and marc polymeropoulos as well. general, what do you make of the statement from the president that he made this decision on wednesday but was in fact advised that they needed to wait it out until it reached kind of a safer area. of course you know, montana where it was first spotted, certainly a more rural area than some other areas of the country. >> well this is about when risk and in this case here, i am sure that the pentagon as well as the national student security agency, they looked at all options and then they waited the risks whether or not it was safe or not to take this down over u.s. airspace, particularly in montana. i sort of agree that you know you shoot a three bus, you can understand the debris field that that would consist of. you had probably put people in

harm's way doing so. the other thing, is it was brought up early, i am quite sure that our u.s. intelligence community was conducting counter intelligence operations as this thing was up in the air. we will never know what the u.s. was able to collect as a result of this thing being up in the air and floating across the continental united states. and so we probably got some good intelligence just by being up there as well. >> general, i want to tell folks that we are now seeing images of the balloon actually being shot down here. it seems as if what i am seeing, general i would love for you to weigh in on this as you can see this as well, it seems as if it is after it has been struck and we are kind of seeing it falling towards the ground. general, can you weigh in for me here? >> yes, what it appears that

what we are seeing here is the air coming out of that balloon and it is streaking really quickly into the ocean. and so as you look for a closer, there you can see probably some u.s. naval ships standing by ready to retreat. something that heavy as you can imagine we'll probably sing pretty quickly. and so we have the navy in close proximity, that quickly gathers up that debris. >> yes it's incredible to see. i do want to read the rest of this pentagon sent me while i have you both with me. kind of speaking to the timing of this thing, and then it went on to say after careful analysis, u.s. military commanders had determined downing the balloon while overland pose an on dual risk to people across a wide area due to the size and altitude that the balloon and its surveillance payload and accordance with the president's direction, department -- developed options to take on the blue and safety over the territorial waters while monitoring its path and intelligence collection

activities. this action was taken in quite a nation with the full support of the canadian government and we thank canada first contribution to tracking analysis doubling through norad as a trans in north america. today's deliberate and lawful action demonstrates that president biden and his national security team always but the safety and security of the american people first, while responding effectively to the prc's unacceptable violation of our sovereignty. what happens next year mark when it comes to conversations between the u.s. and china? how does that go? een the u.it will be interestinw on the hill already talking about what kind of action we should take against china. what does that mean? what is in the playbook? one of them would be to perhaps expel the chinese ambassador, to declare on broad. that is a step that i think some would not want to take because we do have to have a diplomatic dialogue but that is a very common occurrence and the spy scandals, espionage scandals. what one country is caught, the other would kick out the

ambassador or members perhaps have the chinese embassy. i think there is going to be a desire to move past this, there is going to be a lot of talk and a lot of rhetoric on this. that's understandable, a violation of u.s. sovereignty. but there is a lot to do with china, there is a lot on the agenda and so i think there is both sides that will quickly want to come back to the table. one thing jasmine, i think will be interesting is inside china itself, what happens? there is a very strong argument to make that the chinese intelligence services, chinese military has deeply embarrassed the chinese leadership will really actually wanted this meeting, with secretary blinken. we will have to see how this plays out inside china as, well certainly we are speaking from beijing recently, which did express some regrets. sometimes some people thought it did not go strong enough but nothing that will want to get over this or get passed this pretty quickly as well. >> mark, general, if you would stand by for, me i want to bring in victor chong now former director for asian

affairs in the white house national security council. victor, thank you for jumping on with us. we appreciate, it give me first a reaction to the downing of the spy balloon? >> i think it's entirely appropriate. -- they were waiting until it passed over the last continent of united states, got within territorial waters within 12 of the carolina coast. and then took it down so, but i think it's a very prudent thing to do at this point and we will collect as the other side collect what they can offer this and move on. >> were you surprised victor that this balloon was in fact spotted and it was over that u.s.? >> now, the thing that surprised me the most was you know how hand this did, and effort it was, such a critical time and the relationship. whether it's because the intel folks in the military just screwed up and was not coordinated with the leadership and the party who knows but

this is actually, a very critical meeting that blinken was about to do to beijing. important for beijing as well as for washington, and all got blown up literally by this balloon. >> can you let me know about the chinese intelligence service and their intelligence gathering capabilities? do you see this as deliberate or a screw up? >> probably a little bit of, both i am sure that this is just one of many different aspects of a massive chinese intelligence gathering effort against united states. this is just one aspect of it so in that sense, it's a part of what they do. it is also part of a massive disinformation campaign. it will be sold around the world as the thanking unnecessary action against the fence this weather balloon. i am sure that's a story they will tell around the world by you, know is clearly a very brazen effort at the intelligence gathering and a very critical time in their relationship which has been a big mistake by the chinese.

>> completely unlikely from your point of view that china's defense up to what was actually going on here? >> no i think you know we saw a very vague statement of regret about an off track weather balloon, that's i think about as far as it will go. from the u.s. perspective, they will gather intelligence but we have to continue to focus on the important things which is the focus on building up taiwan's defense, allies like japan and south korea, the new base access agreement with the philippines. export controls, the sorts of. things that's what we have to focus on. >> how concerned should we be about what china is doing behind closed doors considering what they are doing out in the open? >> oh i, mean we should be very concerned. like i, said a massive effort both on the intelligence gathering side, in the sky, on the ground, online and it's a massive disinformation effort in all of those domains as well. we should be very concerned that i'm sure that our intelligence and

counter-intelligence folks have been on alert and been tracking all of these things very carefully. this is important and the sense it makes general public much more aware of the extent china will gather intelligence. >> exactly right, victor you and i will talk a little bit more about the geopolitical implications of all of this, the diplomacy, what comes next. we do want to take those quick break because we are continuing to follow this breaking news story. there's chinese bible now shot down off the carolina coast over the atlantic ocean, we are being told the u.s. government now is collecting that debris to in fact analyze it and see in fact what china was up to. we are following the story, as we get more developments bring it to you. for, now be right back. (woman) it's a perfect fit for my small business. (vo) verizon has business internet solutions nationwide. (man) for our not-so-small business too. (vo) get internet that keeps your business ready for anything. from verizon. my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis... ...the burning, the itching. the stinging. my skin was no longer mine.

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carolina coast. into the atlantic ocean. we are getting reports that there was a ground stop and three area airports in north and south carolina with the idea that something was going to happen because there were various sightings of the shiny spy balloon off over the carolina coast. and now subsequently, about 16 minutes after that, this bivalent was in fact shot down. the u.s. government now posted off of the coast of the carolinas, gathering this debris to in fact assess what the chinese were looking for. what they were trying to gather. the question is what they can actually glean from this debris? want to bring a national security correspondent dan dilution has been standing by for washington, minute by minute. dan if you, well bring us up to date on what more you, know why you can add to this? >> i think you summed it up quite well yasmin. this balloon sort of captured

everyone's attention, imagination and raced a lot of worries. we have watched it drifts across the united states, for a spotted in montana and the u.s. from the start, the pentagon said we will not shoot it down when it's overland, they were concerned about the danger that it posed to civilians on the ground in a case of debris might injure someone or cause damage. they wait until it shifted over the water off of the carolina coast, as you said and they have now shut it down and are trying to gather what they can from that balloon and whatever equipment is on their. that question will be, as the equipment and tack to some degree? does it include some kind of what the intelligence people call signals, intelligence gathering capabilities? something they can pick up an east drop on radio signals for example. what kind of cameras does that have? this raises a lot of questions, it is also a glimpse into the world we often don't see? right the chinese have their

eyes on the u.s. with all sorts of satellites that are orbiting the earth, and by other means. it does not produce dramatic video footage. this is the case where we kind of see them spying on us in realtime, it causes a consternation to some degree and creates kind of a domestic political storm. and then congress will want to know, are they doing this on a wider scale? and the public is not told that perhaps our intelligence agency is aware and they are not telling us. keep in mind, there was that report that came out unidentified aerial phenomenon, ufo sightings. some of them according to the intelligence community can be explained by balloons. so it raises a question, are there a lot more cases that we just don't hear about publicly? >> how long have they've been doing this? what have they've been gathering and is the u.s. government aware but the public is not which would be understandable considering we are not fully aware of all of the surveillance that is

happening both by us and of us. dan, if you can clarify from me and for folks that are watching, hear the communication we have gotten from the white house over the last couple of days because in the pentagon statement and the president as well as he was arriving and maryland a couple of minutes ago, so that he kind of gave the greenlight on wednesday to shoot this thing down and western advice and needed to wait it out until it was over a safer area. in fact, that's exactly what they did. waited till it was the over the atlantic ocean to shoot it down because that debris was pretty large. as we have been told, it's the size of three buses. so that thing at the, ground people on the ground in more populated, area can certainly injure folks. what is the white house kind of been communicating over the last couple of days per their instructions when it comes to this? my understanding was it wasn't necessarily a plan, they were not communicating it that they were going to take it down initially? >> they were very careful in

their language and their public statements but based on our reporting and other reporting, there was some consideration given initially to perhaps the option of shooting it down but it was overland, there was a conclusion that that just posed too much of a safety risk. of, course you have to look at the broader calculation. what is the imminent threat? if there is the imminent threat, you have to shoot it down, sooner rather than later. i think they made the calculation, it's not a fighter jet, it's not a bomb, or it's not a missile and so it is picking up some intelligence but it's not nearly as sophisticated as the satellites that are orbiting earth, so they felt it is not worth putting civilian lives at risk. let's wait until there is a safer way to do this. that was the calculation, i think it was always an option from the outside. of course it is moving slowly,

we can see it on television, it becomes and has a sort of political track. you have lawmakers standing up and saying you know you must shoot it down immediately but i think that the administration's argument is that there was not an imminent and physical threat to the u.s. national security and also, there was this advantage of trying to gather what you can, what intelligence can you gather watching and monitoring this balloon? this helps us understand what the chinese are up to. also that argument that they will make. but, again i think this question that will pop up on the hill and then the u.s., political conversation which is you know should the administration tell us more about what the chinese are doing? should some information be declassified and educate the public -- >> what benefit with that offer? >> that is always a dilemma isn't it? i think the u.s. officials have been -- out of the fbi and all of the

top intelligence officials and lawmakers have been trying to shot from the roof tops that china is conducting very aggressive espionage against the u.s. including industrial espionage for years now. they have tried to him know lou were some u.s. citizens on to their side the money or other means. but you can make an argument, maybe they need to divulge some more information now that this balloon has appeared. what isn't it more important to educate the public? could they perhaps exposed to chinese a little bit and embarrass some further? that will be something that will be discussed. >> i am sure certainly that's happening behind closed doors, amidst all of this. dan de luz, thank you. i also want to come from the faa just tweeting out that normal operations have been fact resumes at the street area airports that we're under the ground stop in north and south carolina and preparation for

the shooting down of the spy balloon. normal, what does it say? normal operations have resumed in fact those airports. want to go to megan who is standing by for us in london now because i think megan, one of the questions that we have is what is china going to say? what is the response of this whole thing if in fact anything at this point? >> yes, it's a great question. we are getting word from china recently today, i mean as you know yasmin, they have been saying that no it's not a spy balloon. this is something that was intended to gather weather data and research. the most recent comments that they said is that this was an accident, a complete accident and not this balloon was taken away by the wind. not intended for u.s. airspace. we are getting word out of china that they believe that some u.s. politicians and the media have taken advantage of the issue and attacking an attack in china.

basically denying what the u.s. government believes is in fact the spy balloon. and you know, i know it's been repeated over and over, it cannot be overstated why it was so important to wait for this balloon to drift off into the atlantic. because as you, said we are talking about this massive balloon, it's hard to wrap your mind around the because when you look at the pictures, it doesn't seem to be that big. as you, mentioned we are talking about a balloon three bust sizes. this is pretty massive. the big question now is the evidence. what will our officials be able to gather from the water after knocking down this thing? why does it show, and the big collusion is how will this continue to impact a relationship between the united states and china? secretary of state blinken postponing or canceling his trip to go to china, that was really an important trip for the chinese government. oh eyes will be watching closely as to what our officials will be able to gather from this balloon.

>> megan fitzgerald as always, thank you if of course you hear anything as you are getting word of course responses from china reactions and reactions from china, please stop us on the virtual shoulder and let us know because we will be watching that over the next hour or so. for, now thank you. want to bring in victor chalk once again to the conversation. as i talked about earlier victor, i think many of us are thinking that geopolitical implications of this whole thing, what does this mean for u.s. and china relations going forward and the dependence that we have on china. when it comes to the war in ukraine, that potential of course for beijing to decide to invade taiwan. predictions being made that happening in the next couple of years. what are your expectations with that? >> well a couple of things, of course certainly this could not have come out a more inopportune moment and u.s. china relations which are

already tense. president biden, president xi met on the sidelines at a major multilateral conference in indonesia in november. they tried to put a floor in terms of the decline the u.s. china relationship and blinken 's purpose is time to go over west to help establish guardrails, find places where the u.s. and china can work together but also be very clear about things that chinese are doing that the u.s. is quite concerned about. now that meeting is not taking place at least for the time being. china has been you know carefully but deliberately supportive of russia in the war in ukraine. they're not as obviously supportive of russia but they are a part of a massive disinformation campaign around the world that is blaming the war in ukraine on the united states and nato. even though they are not openly maybe as openly supportive of russia's for example north korea or others, they are doing a lot around the world with massive disinformation to blame

all of this on the united states and non nato allies. >> there was a sport that then dilutes brought up that i was curious about what you make of it which is whether or not the u.s. government should be more transparent with the public about for instance, china's surveillance and their intelligence gathering and their intentions. do you think being more transparent with that would benefit the american public. and if so, why? >> well i don't think it's an easy question to answer in one sentence. on the one hand, lots of reasons why the u.s. government does not want to divulge sources and methods in terms of what we know about chinese intelligence gathering activities. and part because we are able to collect on their efforts to collect. and we are able to counter that. if we publicize all of that then they will find ways to

circumvent what we are trying to do to counter intelligence activity. and that sense, i think it's hard to sort of revealed to the public all of the things that the chinese are doing. it's a very obvious and blatant attempt by china to collect the information, a very clumsy attempt that it has awaken i think the american public that these intelligence gathering activities. i would say the one thing we are seeing the biden administration do, it is not particularly regards to china we see it with the war in ukraine as they are much more willing to downgrade information and make it publicly available so that the general public has a better sense of what is behind u.s. policy and why the united states is saying things that it saying about the war in ukraine. and i think that sets now grading intelligence for the purpose of making a policy point our policy argument or to show how bad the opponents are in the enemies are, that is a good thing to do. >> i want to tell folks vector

as you've been speaking, we are watching this video kind of on a loop here which appears to show and the -- the air coming out of that balloon as it descends off the carolina coast. victory when you think about china and u.s. relations, much of what is been talked about is this is a real embarrassment to china and their intelligence gathering. when do you suspect that china sees it that way? >> they certainly will not publicly say it that way. their story is that this is a weather balloon, and that's gone off course. the next story will be the americans are over reacting. they are shutting down a homeless weather balloon, trying to demonize the chinese. that is the next door that they will tell to their people. and around the world. so in that sense, i think

that's what they will say. externally. internally, i sure there is no doubt somebody's heads will roll for this because it's terribly embarrassing for china and as we said earlier, the chinese wanted this meeting with blinken. first trip to china by secretary states and mike pompeo in 2018. they wanted this, meeting it was an important one, now it is off for how long? we don't know, certainly offer now. >> that their, job as always, we thank you for jumping on this for us. great to talk to you sir, i just want to reiterate if you are just joining, us we are watching footage of what appears to be a chinese bivalent being shot down off carolina coast. and to the atlantic ocean, we are being told the government is gathering that debris to clean in fact what china was out for. what they wanted to gather and what they were able to gather. we heard from the president earlier as, well he said he gave the go ahead on wednesday to shoot this balloon down about was sold and needed to wait until it was over a safe

area so not to hurt anybody on the ground. again, as we said over and over, it's about three buses big. there is a lot of debris, it has a major debris field. they waited until it was over the atlantic ocean to in fact shoot it down, in the last 16 minutes or so. somebody who saw this chinese spy balloon be shot, down lisa roberts, a witness lives in conway, south carolina. joining me now, at least a do i have you? >> yes ma'am. >> what did you see lisa? >> well we walk down on the back porch and you can see jets flying around everywhere. i would assume it was possibly eight jets flying around and then a few minutes later, you can see two jets flying super close to the balloon and then maybe 3 to 4 minutes later, a now they're jet comes in and another one arrives. all of a sudden all you see is,

much on the debris is falling down like i get they get from the balloon. >> did you see that balloon before it was shot? before i was shot down? did you spot it initially? >> yes ma'am. when i walked in on the back porch, there were i would say two jets flying over and then here comes to more, and i was like well so all of a sudden, you can see the balloon plain as day. i mean it was over my house probably around ten minutes and all of a sudden, the jets are just coming out of everywhere and like i said, it probably was, it flew around we can see it really good for a good 20 minutes. the jets flying, we are about 15 minutes from myrtle beach. so i am assuming that the balloon was shot over myrtle beach. >> we are watching least, just so you know we are watching the footage that you shot of this balloon i believe outside of

your home, lisa that's where you wear. when you spotted it so we are watching that footage now, as you are talking. when he spotted the balloon initially, did you know it was? >> i would not have known if i'd only seen it earlier on the news. it had to be really big because the two jets underneath, it they were little compared to the blue and i thought. like i said, it was above our house for a good 20 minutes. we watch the entire, time i took several videos and pictures. i was like one of the odds, so over here but yes. >> was it moving pretty quickly lisa, that it seem to be moving slowly? >> it was moving very slowly, at one point, i thought it was going and moving straight up and then it came back down when the jets got closer. and then like i said, they were constantly flying around.

they would go around it than fly, often they would come back and then all of a sudden like a, said you have seen to just fly by really close and then here comes to other ones from another direction and then all you see was smoke. and i sat there for a moment and i thought they shut that balloon down and back in the house and watch the video, i said yes. >> when you saw the fighter jets overhead, were you worried? >> no, i wasn't worried. i just assume that at some, point they were going to shoot it down because we got to notice that day that they were shutting down the myrtle beach airport. so i assume that some, point there were going to shot and shoot it down but i just had to -- get it on film, i could not believe. it i could not believe it. >> unbelievable some of the footage we are seeing. did you feel it when i happen? i've been seeing reports on social media, especially that a lot of folks kind of near the area, they felt the

reverberations of the balloon being shot down. did you feel anything? >> now not revive a point i didn't. i couldn't hear anything, i couldn't feel anything, i just saw it. but i'm sure people that we're living close did feel it. from where i was, that i could not. >> lisa roberts for us, a witness who saw that spy balloon chinese by blood being shot on off the carolina coast. we are showing footage lisa shot outside of her home. thank you so much for calling in. we appreciate you, hope you're able to enjoy the rest of your weekend. want to read for you some more reporting we are getting from the pentagon now about the shooting. saying they shot a single missile into the balloon causing it to crash into the ocean. this was the first available opportunity to successfully breakdown the balloon without posing a threat to civilians. shot down approximately 60 miles off the coast.

there are no indications that people or vessels harmed, we are confident it was seeking to monitor sensitive sites. they are going to seek to recover, it all from a u.s. military official. you heard from the president earlier as he was arriving in maryland, he said specifically he ordered this blood to be shot down on wednesday but was told they had to wait until it was over a safer area. let's listen to that. >> on wednesday, i was briefed on the balloon, earlier the pentagon was shooting it down and on wednesday as soon as possible. they decided without doing damage to anyone on the ground. decided the best time to do that with auto in the water outside of -- the limit. six actually took it down and want to compliment the -- and we will have more to report on a little later. thank you. >> what is your message to china? you are seeing a recommendation

-- >> we told them to shoot it down on wednesday. they said to me let's wait for the safest place to do it. >> way to the safest place to do, it that's exactly what they did. six nautical miles off the carolina coast, the atlantic ocean is where they shot it down just about 60 minutes or so ago at this point as we are hearing from the pentagon. want to go to gary braun walk, nbc correspondent standing by for us. , gary we heard from the president he was arriving and maryland, he gave the orders on wednesday. they waited until saturday, when it was over the ocean to issue the spy balloon down. they had successfully dug so and are now seeking to gather the debris for intelligence collection. what more are we learning from the white house here in this hour? >> so this is interesting to, me biden has been quiet all week about the story. showering questions for a number of days now and ignored them. until this afternoon when he said they are going to take care of it as he was getting

into a ban in syracuse. and they did take care, but u.s. military as we saw shot down with that balloon. at the glance important to note here is china has gathered over the past few days, whatever they look at here right? and they had that already. did not necessarily need that balloon to gather that information. likely already been transmit it back to them for the most part. they don't have the balloon and the instruments themselves but they do have that information. i do think that's a key thing to remember here, the military also wasted no time and getting this balloon down once it was over the water. they did not want to shoot it down while it was overland but it was just a mile or two off of the water as you mentioned. we saw number of people generating content, we are seeing is extreme right now and it was so close to the line with those multiple fighter jets and bald in that takedown. the u.s. will be working on getting that blue, and getting whatever satellite, whatever information is associated with

that from the water. the navy will be involved in this, it will be a multi agency and an organization effort here and they will seek to recover this and see what they have here. >> gary for us, thank you gary. want to bring in quickly if i can marc polymeropoulos lisbon with us throughout the hour. mark if i, can i want to get final thoughts from you on this. what you are most concerned about looking ahead and i also want to get you to weigh in if you can about the benefits of being more transparent about intelligence gathering with the u.s. public. if you believe there are any? >> i think that previous -- vector is set something that was really important. talked about the use of authorize intelligence to -- what the biden administration has done for russia and ukraine. now is the perfect time to do that, and i think in this case. what we get from that debris field. evidence that this was chinese

espionage activities will be really important for the american people. also for the information operations campaign worldwide. again demonstrating the chinese -- and again overall, my impression of this, the biden administration was patient. was responsible, you know the idea of shooting the sound over the continental u.s. at think was not serious, it had been worse on twitter if you are congressman with your ar-15. pointed to the air, that is not really serious. the intelligence gathering that occurred over the last several days as this did, over the united states and ultimately taking the aircraft down which was -- what the government. i think it's a book and two are really incredible several days which the world watched. >> yes we certainly, did marc polymeropoulos thank, you want to thank all of my guests have joined me throughout the last two hours as we have been following this developing story. and learning in fact, the u.s. government has shut down that

chinese spy balloon off the carolina coast into the atlantic ocean. we are being told -- off the carolina coast. the president weighing, in just about 30 minutes or so ago saying in fact -- there go ahead on wednesday to shoot it down but it was told and needed to wait until it was over a safer area to do just that. that is exactly what they did and we are now being told they are effort in a gathering this debris to analyze it and seeing in fact with the chinese were after. the question is what type of geopolitical implications will emerge from all of this? of course the response from china, we are still awaiting that. that does it for me this hour everybody, i'm simone sanders will pick things up after a very quick break. i will see you tomorrow. will see you tomorrow. if your business kept on employees

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♪ every search you make ♪ ♪ every click you take ♪ ♪ i'll be watching you ♪ - [narrator] the internet doesn't have to be so creepy, the duckduckgo app, lets you search and browse pria blocking most trackers all forf your search history is never tracked, so it can't be shared.

and when you leave search, duckduckgo helps keep companies from watching you as you brows. president and the pentagon are join tens of millions of people making the easy switch by downloading the app today. duckduckgo, privacy simplified. (upbeat music) saying about this incident and the implications of the already tense relations between the u.s. and china. congressman stephen horsford who served in the armed services committee will join us in studio. i am simone sanders townsend and this is something i have to say. we start today with breaking news. the pentagon has confirmed that a u.s. jet shot down the chinese spy balloon that was spotted floating over parts of the country this week. now the military shut the balloon down over the atlantic. off of the coast of the carolinas. this video that you are seeing right now, this is the video that appears to show the moment that the balloon was downed. a recovery effort is now