duckduckgo helps keep companies from watching you as you brows. president and the pentagon are join tens of millions of people making the easy switch by downloading the app today. duckduckgo, privacy simplified. (upbeat music) saying about this incident and the implications of the already tense relations between the u.s. and china. congressman stephen horsford who served in the armed services committee will join us in studio. i am simone sanders townsend and this is something i have to say. we start today with breaking news. the pentagon has confirmed that a u.s. jet shot down the chinese spy balloon that was spotted floating over parts of the country this week. now the military shut the balloon down over the atlantic. off of the coast of the carolinas. this video that you are seeing right now, this is the video that appears to show the moment that the balloon was downed. a recovery effort is now

underway to gather debris of the balloon. and that debris is estimated to roughly the size of two school buses. here's what president biden told reporters about the operation last hour. >> on wednesday, when i was briefed on the balloon, i ordered the pentagon to shoot it down. on wednesday, as soon as possible. they decided it might do damage on the ground. they decided that the best time was when it was over water. so that has been our limit. they successfully took it down. and i want to compliment our aviators who did it. and we will have more to report on this a little later. thank you. >> what is your message to china? >> i told him to shoot it down. >> on wednesday. >> yes, they said to me, let's wait for it to be -- >> now beijing is claiming that it is a weather research

balloon. that we have seen floating over the united states. and beijing expressed regret that it accidentally drifted into u.s. airspace. but the pentagon and the secretary of state anthony blinken say that they are confident the balloon was being used for surveillance. the balloon was first seen hovering over montana earlier this week. and it was hovering not far from one of three nuclear missile bases in the country. u.s. officials took steps to weaken its surveillance capabilities. and say the balloon was not a threat. but this episode is complicating already tense relations between the u.s. and china. secretary of state anthony blinken postponed his trip to beijing to meet with president xi jinping over this particular debacle. calling it an irresponsible act. and a violation of international law. joining me now to unpack this and break it down is dan dilutes, nbc news national security reporter. and john brennan. mr., brandon as the former cia director and as an msnbc senior

national security and intelligence analyst. thank you both for being here. then, i want to start with you because what can you tell us about the efforts leading up to today's act? have you heard from the president that he gave the order on wednesday. to feed it down. u.s. officials advised that basically it is too big to shoot it down. it is not safe to do so now and we need to wait until it is over water essentially. what happens between then and now? >> that is right, so basically from the start they considered, should we shut this down? and that conclusion was in the pentagon that this is dangerous to civilians potentially why run the risk, let's wait until it is over the atlantic ocean. and it is important to point out here, i think in their calculation this was not a bomber. this was not a missile coming in. there was not an imminent physical threat to americans. and the amount of intelligence this balloon could pick up is pretty limited. so i think they thought it wasn't worth this risking civilian lives. that's why the president ordered to shoot down.

until it was over the ocean. >> over the, ocean the pentagon, what are they saying about this incident. we now know it is a former colleague, courtney qb, she has the senior defense official that was shot down by f 22 with one air to air missile. we have 22 was flying about 58,000 feet at the time. high but not as high. >> very high, higher than usual. they were able to do that with, they say they were no civilians injured or some kind of property damage. and right as we speak, right now they're in the eye atlantic ocean trying to gather up what they can from the balloon and the equipment there. and there will be an effort to exploit that equipment and try to see what the chinese were up to. if it is still intact. which we don't know. >> we do not know. during this time, the faa had suspended flight operations in the north carolinas and surrounding areas. we now know that they are backed up and running. we will be watching this. director brennan, i want to bring you into this conversation. because this is a lot of

questions about intelligence and what beijing was or was not doing. now, we know that folks and experts all week have talked about that at this balloon, it is not uncommon. for this to have happened. what can you tell us,, sir given your experience about these particular efforts if you will by the chinese government? >> well, simone, i think we need to say that there is still a lot that we don't know about this whole episode. we have some facts, we know it was a high altitude balloon that was launched by the chinese. that now has been shot down. upon the recommendation of the military that we wait until it go over water. so to be shot down safely. the chinese claim it was a weather balloon that went off course. the u.s., though, the pentagon is saying that they are confident it actually was a surveillance balloon that was going after some intelligence on our strategic sites. but there is still a lot of questions about the why and the what. why did the chinese do this? was it their objective? but about, there there have

been surveillance balloons in the past but nothing that has strayed over the united states for several days like this. with this duration and this trajectory and this course. so what was the real purpose of it? did they expect it to perform the way expected -- who authorized it? was she jinping aware of this? was this something that was done within the chinese military without his knowledge or even in a way to embarrass him on the eve of secretary blinken's travel. so i think there is still a lot of questions about what was the motivation and what was the purpose of this. secondly, there is still a lot of questions about the -- what type of package collection capabilities did this balloon have? that is why the u.s. now is going to try to retrieve as much intact as possible the water. to find out what was it's capability to take imagery of some sites. or it's technical collection capabilities in terms of collecting signals as it went over the united states. so i think, you know, the public has some information in

terms of the facts that are out there. but having been in the white house situation room a number of times when we had these ongoing developments. and cases. you have incomplete knowledge. we try to act in the best way that you can with what you have. but you understand that more information will be acquired. and i think we are gonna get more information weather certainly the administration will get more information about the why and the what involved in this whole episode. >> senior u.s. military official has told our colleague courtney qb that the debris field is about seven miles spread out wide. so you can imagine the collection that has to be done is vast. director brennan, you mention secretary blinken's trip. he postponed his trip to beijing. the biden harris administration, their posture towards china has been competition not conflict. when i was there it is something that they hammered home. it seems to me, though, that this postponement of this trip and the statements coming out

from u.s. officials today particularly statements that say that this balloon that china has violated u.s. the sovereignty. that to me sounds like stronger, language. very clear actions meant to send a signal to officials in beijing. do you think i'm reading that right? >> no, i agree. the administration certainly wants beijing to understand that this was an unsaid, unacceptable action on their part. whether it went straight on course. and was surveillance or not. this is something that did infringe upon the airspace sovereignty of the united states. we had every right to track it as well as to shoot down while it was still within our sovereign territory. so i think that the biden ministration was disappointed that they had to postpone secretary blinken's trip. but i think early on this week, i think we knew that president biden knew that we were going to shoot this down at the first

available opportunity. that would not endanger life there for the unattainable for secretary blinken to go to china. right now i think the burden is going to be on beijing. and on president xi jinping. how does he handle it? express regrets about this weather balloon that flew off course. but i'm wondering how much they will acknowledge and admit. if they are going to go beyond that. i do think, i like to think that both sides are going to try to avoid an escalation that could in fact be detrimental to the interests of both countries. but we will have to see how the chinese are going to respond to this. as well as what additional intelligence that the united states is going to be able to acquire either on the purpose of this mission, as well as on the actual technical capabilities that this balloon had. , i spoke to some former colleagues today and everyone emphasized that channels of communication have to continue to stay open between the u.s. and beijing for the very reason that you stated doctor brandon. but we do not want a

relationship to be -- and because of that they have to continue to keep channels open. but the clear, direct, essential equal things that when they do happen. dan, i want to unpack this balloon situation a little more. because we have actually seen reporting indicating that the pentagon is actually -- bloom project, if you will. to compete with not only china but also russia. according to, politico about this specifically. so how, first of all, do you know anything about that? but also this goes to the point of, again, competition not conflict. and because the united states government wants competition not conflict with beijing they stop to work with them where they can. but also continue to safeguard against what they feel like our intrusions and provocations, if you will. >> balloons have been around a long time. they have been used for surveillance and spying and to help militaries since world war

i. now, we put these sophisticated sensors or cameras on them, or even devices that can pick up radio signals. pick up your mobile phone conversations. we have used balloons in different ways. there is no evidence that the u.s. is running balloons off the coast of china. now, of course, both sides have satellites orbiting the earth picking up all sorts of elaborate information. but what is true is that if you went to afghanistan during our two decade experience there, you would see these balloons tethered at a lower altitude around u.s. military bases. and that was a way to see the horizon. yes, there is some -- for our own purposes. one use is for missile defenses. so a radar on the ground doesn't always pick up a low-flying cruise missile or a drone. until it is closer. whereas, a balloon at a high altitude can see at a much farther distance. that is one example. but you do have to wonder what else is going on. what else don't we know that

the chinese are up to that perhaps our u.s. intelligence committee does know but it is classified. are there other instances of these types of balloons that we haven't heard about and seen flying across the u.s.? and also, how are they using drones, perhaps. and there have been some very dangerous instances in the south china sea where the chinese have flown their aircraft very near u.s. aircrafts. and u.s. vessels. and that has been very dangerous. >> director brennan, what is the conversation, then, that is currently happening. i would, know as the president gave his statements he was on his way to camp david. that's where he will be this weekend. and there is a cadre of staff with him. they thought they would just be preparing for the state of the union address. but i can imagine that there are some very important meetings that have now jumped on to the presidents schedule this weekend. what is the conversation happening now? how would officials triangulate going forward. understanding what we have to

collect the debris first to then analyze. but what else could be going on? >> well it's gonna be taking as much information as possible. as you said, whatever type of retrieval activity is going on in terms of how much the debris is going to be exploitable. but also i know that president biden will be very interested in finding what the chinese are saying publicly. what are they saying privately. what does our intelligence tell us about how they are reacting to this situation. how they are reacting to the shoot down. and i am sure there is going to be a lot of discussions with our allies and partners around the globe. to gain support. because, again, this was an infringement of our sovereignty. and to make sure that our partners and allies will be supportive of us in terms of the option that we took. so i think in the coming days, president biden is going to have a continuous flow of information as well as the security council team trying to decide how to best deal with the chinese. see what their reaction and response is going to be. initiate some discussions. listen to what they say. but also to determine exactly

what they should say publicly. how much of the intelligence exploitation should be shared publicly. i think these are all things that they are going to be working on very thoroughly. intensively over the coming days. >> very quickly, before i let both of you go. i think there are just people who don't do this every day. who are watching the news right now wondering, should they be concerned? dr. brennan, do you think americans should be concerned? >> no. i think the administration handled this very well. i think the president was right to proceed to the recommendation of the military. to wait for this, to shoot this down until it was over water. i think the risk assessment, they did it, to not pose a threat based on, again, the intelligence connection that i'm sure was targeted against this. -- past several days. i do think any concerns that might have, you know, been raised over the past several days about this balloon should subside be because of knowing it is now out of our territory. it has been shot down. but i do think what we need to watch is how the chinese are going to handle this. i think the biden administration has handled this

appropriately. now the question is, how is china going to respond? are they going to respond? are they going to try to make sure that there is not going to be an escalation of tests in. or, in fact, are they going to push back in some way and as was just pointed out there are some disputed areas, arizonans as well as waterways in east asia and along the chinese border that, are they going to try to be more aggressive there and respond somehow in that area? so i do think that the coming days and weeks will determine whether or not this is going to be an episode that will just be a chapter in the relationship between the united states and china. and we are both able to move past it. or whether or not it is going to be escalated something that i think will be more contentious. >> daniel, have the last word on this? >> i would say this, if the chinese wanted to disrupt and sabotage this visit by anthony blinken, the secretary of state. it would've been easier ways to do that. so i think there is still kind of a mystery here about why this happened.

and how it unfolded. because there are different ways to have stopped the meeting from happening or undermined it, the visit that was planned. >> questions, i think, lots of folks would like answered. to nbc's dan duluth and john brennan, thank you both very much. we are gonna continue to track this breaking news. again, a chinese spy balloon was shot down over the atlantic ocean near the carolinas. up next, a member of the house armed services committee will join me to discuss what lies ahead for the united states. with china and what folks on the hill are saying. you don't want to miss this, stay with, us you are watching symone. allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonase. all good. this week is your chance to try any - subway footlong for free. like the subway series menu. just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free. free monsters, free bosses, any footlong for free!

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of the chinese surveillance balloon that was shot down from the skies over the coast of south carolina. a short time ago. now, that action was taken at the direction of president biden. a source tells nbc news u.s.

government will now be attempting to recover its debris. reactions from washington are rolling in quickly. and with me now to share his reaction is the democratic congressman of nevada, stephen horsford. who sits on the arms services committee. he is also the chair of the congressional black caucus. welcome to you, sir. first, your thoughts on the action that was taken today and what you think should happen now. first, i want to commend president biden, secretary austin. and our entire officials at the pentagon for acting decisively to protect our national interests and sovereignty. and to ensure that we are doing everything that we can to collect now the debris and whatever intelligence they can get. from this surveillance balloon, the armed services committee is actually having a full committee hearing on tuesday. it was scheduled prior to this information around the emerging

threats of china on the united states. and our financial services committee is having a hearing on the economic threats posed by china. so congress is already taking these issues and has been very seriously. i want to commend our chair on the armed services committee and the ranking member for doing that hearing. i think the correctional piece of this is a very important. all week we heard from an emerging republican -- urging president biden to essentially search suit the balloon down. we heard any president and carrie austin about why that didn't happen until now. the safety given, you know, to school buses is large. the debris area is about seven miles wide. the debris spread. china and the issue of china seems to me like a very bipartisan issue that democrats and republicans in this very interesting congress can at least agree on. you talk about the potential threats. the economic threats.

what is it that congress can do. because again, the posture has been competition not conflict and in all of the conversations i've had this weekend today from u.s. officials it seems to me they are not looking for conflict still but they do know that china has now essentially not played nice in the international sandbox. >> one thing i can say for sure, the armed services committee always works in a bipartisan manner when it comes to our national security. and although we are no longer in the majority, i am confident that chairman rogers working with our ranking member mr. smith that we will continue to come together on these issues. i would like for the pentagon to come in to brief the committee specifically on the events around this surveillance balloon. not only the threat that it poses to the united states, but what the peoples republic of china is doing all around the world, collecting surveillance information. this is not new information.

but it is a threat whether it is intellectual information, security information, surveillance information. i represent in my district of nevada, you know, the air force base of dallas, the creature air force base. then about a test and training range. so we have a lot of critical assets throughout the united states. and we need to know as members of congress, we need transparency on what information is being collected. even if it has to be a classified setting. so we know what more we have to do to act to protect our interests and yes we want to not elevate or escalate issues with china. but we still need to have strong resolve that we are not going to let them, you know, impede our sovereignty. >> sovereignty a word that i had not heard from the united states in relation to china this week until today in this

balloon. last thing on this topic are you now in the banned tiktok camp, one of the other conversations i was having this week's tiktok now seems dead on arrival for lack of a better term in terms of support for that gap in congress. your thoughts? >> we had already been directed by our officials that oversee that process throughout congress to no longer use that app for members of congress in an official capacity. again, i think we need to know all of the information around how these types of technology and innovation are being used to collect information and how it is being used against us by china. or russia, or anyone else that wavy involved in these efforts. >> i am on the tiktok, but we will be watching. before i let you go, i want to let you talk about the meaning that -- congressional black caucus had president -- vice president harris this week. what did you ask for in that meeting? what did the president promise

you? and are we going to see some very pointed language in the state of the union speech given by the president on tuesday on police reform? >> all i want to thank the president and the vice president for first taking our meetings seriously in the timely manner. we asked and within days it was priority. >> i was told the media spoke to be 45 minutes it lasted two hours. it did, and the president was very engaged. we had several of our members talking about a number of things. we asked for three things. number one, that the president use the moment of the state of the union to center the issue of policing and its impact on the lives of people in this country. from a public safety standpoint. this issue disproportionately affects black people and black men. but not only black people. it affects all of our communities. secondly we asked for the president to use the power of

his office and his relationships to help bring republicans into this process. because we know to get anything meaningful done, it is going to take republican support both in the senate and the house. finally. we asked for the president to work with us on pursuing additional executive actions beyond what he already implemented last may which were great. but apply only to federal law enforcement and we need more guidance to local and state law enforcement. so i want to be clear about this >> for the president say yes to all three of those things? >> he agreed to our approach. and working with us and i believe on tuesday in the state of union with the family. nichols family in the gallery this issue will be a priority. >> congressman stephen horsford, streamer the congressional black caucus member of the earth's committee, thank you so much for coming to the green table today. >> thank you, simone. >> ahead, everyone, is this balloon incident escalates? i am going to talk to u.s.

china relation experts victor chao about how this could impact the diplomatic tightrope that the united states is walking with those invasions. we will be back in a moment we will be back in a momen proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. back now with more of our

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or live chat at calhope.org today. continuing breaking news coverage, the united states has shut down the chinese balloon that had been hovering over the country. president biden confirmed the military action about an hour ago. let's bring in victor chalk.

victor chao is an nbc news korean efforts analyst and a former director for asian affairs at the national security council. thank you so much for being with us victor. this is really all happening at a very inopportune time for u.s. chinese relations. what is your read of this? particularly if you can respond to the threat, the united states today officials from military officials to u.s. government officials talking about the violation of u.s. sovereignty by the chinese government with this balloon. >> yes, so a couple of things. first is that, yes this is a big violation of u.s. airspace, u.s. sovereignty. while china's been doing a number of things in the east asia region with regard to the territorial space or disputed territorial space and see other countries, this is the most direct violation of the united states. the u.s. action to take down

this balloon is sort of the first kinetic act against a chinese asset and this rising u.s. china competition. so there is a lot of symbolism associated with this given the competition between the united states and china. >> a lot of symbolism, i wanted your thoughts about the cancellation of secretary blinken's trip to meet with president xi jinping and china. do you think that we will see overture again, sometime soon or will other u.s. officials notably maybe the national security adviser to the president making a trip and said to send a message? >> i think blank, and i think secretary blinken will go, now that they shot this thing down and will collect intelligence on it and will explain everything that china was trying to do with it, i think he can go. it's an important trip because you know the u.s. and china relationship is escalating. it's becoming extremely tense.

biden and the chinese leader met and indonesia in november they're trying put guardrails on the relationship and blankenship was the first since mike pompeo went to try and implement this idea of putting guardrails on a relationship. china needed this president actually quite badly. this balloon situation was extremely embarrassing for them. blank and couldn't go but now he can go and i think he will give that the marsh on this intelligence balloon but then focus on the issues that matter to the united states like defense of taiwan, human rights export controls on semiconductors and other commanding technology against the chinese. >> you noted this balloon situation was an embarrassment. i think lots of folks to use that term this week. also what happened this week, the global infrastructure efforts, a wall street journal story talking about the

headline is china's global megaprojects are falling apart. they seems like just a terrible pr week for the chinese government but also, the real international implications for their relationships. what are your thoughts there? >> yes it's a good question, and a good point. we often see china like standing 100 feet tall but in the last few months, major setbacks for a xi jinping. first a covid lockdown completely failed after people protested and they just rapidly reversed the policy and have cute cases of covid inside the country without the right vaccine infrastructure. they're having an economic slowdown, the mega projects that are referring to these things called the daulton road initiative where these massive capital financial projects infrastructure projects are kind of offered to do in the global south that are all sort of falling apart. now then on top of that, to have this balloon situation happen just when the two most

arguably two most important countries in the world are going to meet, they can usually embarrass for the chinese. they don't send 100 feet tall, and not nearly as tall and they are clearly having a problem. >> mister jean, i think there are some people watching right now that would say okay, they shut the balloon down, got it. competition, not conflict. all right about why should every day americans who don't do foreign policy right, who aren't keyed in on this issue on a regular basis, why should they care about this particular -- the relations between china and united states? >> well i mean in terms of the, balloon it shows a sort of massive, massive intelligence gathering campaign that china executes against the united states and this has one small part of it. this is a balloon, they have surveillance satellites that are over the united states 24/7 trying to collect information. that's the nature of

competition between two great powers in the national system. i guess we expect to see some of that. the other aspect is that china engages and massive disinformation around the world. they will tell the rest of the world that this was a defenseless weather balloon that the united states made a big deal out of, even though it's a spy balloon. they are doing the same thing in ukraine saying that the war is all the fault of the united states and nato. if anything, it should awake americans to the fact that there is some massive effort by the chinese against the u.s.. >> victor chao, thank you so much, we love the experts who can break it down for us. appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> all right we have heard from the experts, next we talk about the political implications of president biden ordering this chinese bivalent to be shot down. i am going to discuss it all with my political panel. that is next, to keep it right here, you are watching symone on msnbc. on msnbc i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us

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that we've been telling you about this hour, a military jet has shot down the chinese spy balloon was spotted floating above the country throughout this week. it happens off the coast of the carolinas this afternoon. the mere presence of this balloon in u.s. airspace races plenty of questions about the national security security, relationship with china and potential political implications for the president. joining me now to discuss is eugene scott, the senior politics reporter at axios and former democrat, former senator democrat jug jones from alabama and former republican and nbc contributor ashley pratte oats, welcome, welcome, welcome. i want to start here because eugene and i were actually having a conversation off line here. the state of the union is on tuesday and in the state of the union, i think the real lot of folks who are expecting to hear from president biden about police reform. i just spoke about what congressman horseburg but given, this and what we have heard

from republicans this week, eugene the thing that the president is going to make a pivot and we are going to hear more about china and u.s. china relations in the speech. >> it will have, to not that he will completely walk away from policing because it's a priority for him and to one of the most influential graphic groups who got him to the white house. i think everyone is very interested regardless of where they fall on race or politically. what is happening with china in this balloon. there is concerns about surveillance, concerns about safety. as you know it's not the first issue regarding china that we have been talking about this month. it will have to find a way to make it known what he is doing to respond to concerns that people have. >> actually along those, lines we see in this 118th congress there is bipartisan support for a new select committee investigating the competition between the united states and china. how do you think these developments over this weekend today, doubled and being shot down, how will that affect the

committee's framework? >> i definitely think it was the right move by the biden administration for a couple of reasons. wine with republicans being as dysfunctional as they are right now in congress, the narrative was only going to be responding so many times to make it look like biden was being weak. we all know that donald trump has talked about getting on top of china since he started his platform in 2016. so at this, point i do think it was rivaled by the biden administration. i think the fact that they were also surveilling this for intelligence as well shows that this was a strength and move on the half of the united states against china. and i do think to your point, similar does need to be a conversation and re-framing of this in the state of the union address to show they are getting tough on china. obviously, as him being the front runner for the democrats, there is trump on the republican side who is going to make an issue of this. i do think the more they can get in front of, it showed that made the right move here was tough, shot it down, was able to collect intel, it's only

going to position him stronger moving forward, especially given the jobs report as well. he will be the clear front runner fees able to make a case that he is leading on foreign issues as well as getting tough on china and creating jobs here in the united states. >> senator jones, ashli makes a good point. tough on china redirect. the trump administration and donald trump himself like to say he was tough on china but you know there was a cozying up to some dictators over there and not necessarily holding people accountable. whole other story but when it comes to the issue of beijing, i am very interested in how you think the american, democrat should be talking to the american people about understanding it's not happening in a vacuum. we know last, year the president until the end of pacific economic framework and that is a partnership between the u.s. and about a dozen other asian countries to counter beijing's and fluids in the region. i was with my president harris when she was on her first trip to the region and singapore.

just your thoughts on how the conversation needs to maybe shift to make it pavlopil to all of the american people, especially folks that don't do foreign policy every day. >> sure, simone we have to remember that what we are doing with china is one of the most bipartisan issues that congress and administration have in common right now. you saw 365 votes from the china committee in the house of representatives. it is given the president an opportunity to talk about what we are doing and a very bipartisan way. this is fortuitous and the sense that it is right before the state of the union. he is not going to have to do away or cut down on any of the discussions about jobs, the economy, health care. he will not have the cut on anything involving police reform that he is trying to push. at the same, time he can now talk a little bit more about the china policy, what he is doing. i think that democrats have to talk about the fact that there is no one that is better

position to deal with china than joe biden. he and president xi were vice presidents at the same time, they travel together, they visited together. they know each other pretty well and i think that -- his position better than anybody in the country to deal with china, which everyone understands is our biggest long term fight right now. >> a lot of people out there want to make the presidents age an issue but on this, one oked comes with a little wisdom and a little relationship. eugene, former senator jones and ashley, thank you all for being here very much. after the break, folks i will talk to a military expert for a closer look at the type of operation that it took to bring down the shiny spy balloon. it is not as easy as you might, think we will be right back. we will be right back. we are targets too. millions have chronic kidney disease and 90% don't know they have it. so ask for your kidney numbers and farxiga.

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and we're committed to increasing our renewable fuels production. because as we work toward a lower carbon future, it's only human to keep moving forward. more now on our breaking news on that chinese surveillance balloon that was shot down near the carolinas just this afternoon. president biden has confirmed that the united states, he gave the order to shut down the chinese polon. we know that i was shot down off the coast of carolina by some fighter jets. we are gonna bring some folks and you can discuss that with me now on the phone, dr. roger right way. he is a retired navy carrier pilot and also joining me now is nbc news military analyst, colonel jack jacobs who is also

a medal of honor recipient. thank you so much to you both. roger, i want to start with. you you are someone who has flown navy jets and that's part of the atlantic coast so based on what to observe, some of the video that we have been showing, the little bit that you can see here on the air, what can you tell us about the mission like this? >> sure, well first of all the navy or whoever was running the, show the air force would've had two days to prepare, i mean this is like shooting ducks as far as fighter pilots and my guess is so the navy whether it's the assets with all of the ships that were faced and the north, probably had a cruiser or a cruiser that was tracking the balloon as well as it maybe need to surveillance aircraft. and from the video, it looks like a fighter probably an f 22 to get up to 60,000 feet are most navy tactical jets only go to about 40,000.

my guesses could've been probably air force f 22 with an eye our our radar missile. it is obviously a very easy shot, it would've had lots of idols on that target. >> lots of eyeballs, we do know that the balloon was shot down about 58,000 feet in the air. quickly mr. whiteley, what kind of preparations would go into a mission like this, what is the coordination between the navy, the army, and the folks on the ground who have to get ready to execute the orders? >>, sure the command controls would be coming down from the president or the national security council. and again, with two days to prepare, they would've had a tactical unit that was capable of doing this mission and probably even through a couple of backup missions or practice missions to make sure they are ready to go. we have seen one aircraft

contrail, my guess is they were a backup aircraft, loaded in case the aircraft had some mechanical problems are gonna do it. you can see the contrails, the michelin sutter fired and then you can see the balloon going down. they would've thought as i said, two days to prepare. for instance, on a navy carrier, we have a five minute alert we have five minutes to go, here they had two stakes to go to find a target that would basically not moving. an easy shot from the military. >> current all, you know the defense department says the bulletin was shot down by one f 22 using an air to air missile, the missile is called a nine. what can you tell us about that particular missile and on the other side of that statement, i want to read to you what the pentagon put out a short moment ago. what can you tell us about the missile? >> well typically, the missile is armed with a warhead that has a proximity for you. as it gets close to its target,

and then explodes. the trouble we are trying to hit the balloon is that it doesn't have the kind of radar signature as you would expect from a really solid object. it doesn't have any infrared source where the of noting. it is difficult to follow infrared being, it was clearly a missile that took an otherwise the f 22 and have to get all the way up to its service ceiling of about 60,000 feet. get really close to the balloon at some speed and then unleash a 20 millimeter cannon. the a missile probably where the proximity fuse and if it got close to, it even without exploding would go right through the balloon simone. >> so colonel, the pentagon released a statement a short time ago and a part of it read this. it said in accordance with the president's direction, the department of defense developed options to take down the balloon safely over our territorial waters while

closely monitoring its path and intelligence collection activities. the action was taken in quite a nation with the full support of the canadian government. colonel, one, what does, what does that tell you about the threat? was a threat to the public on the ground greater than the threat of china getting a hold of u.s. intelligence? why do you think the united states will find in this debris? >> well two things about, that the first is not the chairman and chief of staff came to that conclusion not there was the threat on the ground from falling debris and we weren't going to shoot it over american territory. the second, is we have great capability to jam signals and to make it difficult or impossible for the balloon to transmit anything that it has already collected and stores aboard. it was shot down over the ocean, a rescue mission surely is

underway to get as much of the debris as possible. who knows what we will be able to learn from it. these kinds of things have happened before and not shutting down the balloon but as we heard before, the chinese are actively involved in trying to get as much intelligence over our area as possible simone. >> right side colonel jack jacobs, thank you and roger right, way thank you very much. i appreciate you both today. and thank you for watching symone on this saturday, i am simone sanders townsend. catch me right here on msnbc weekends at 4 pm eastern at anytime over on the pickup where i have new episodes on the msnbc hub every monday. foreign policy affects you domestically and folks, we live in an interconnected global world. that is why we covered it today. politics nation with the great reverend al sharpton starts right after the break. after the break. when our daughter and her kids moved in with us... our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping

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