another run for president. that's a theme that president biden hit at a political venue, the dnc winter meeting. [ chanting four more years ] >> yes, we just got out of an election, but you plan ahead and you hurt the chants of four more years. thanks for spending time with us. please keep it locked here as we will have state of the union coverage for you in the previews tonight and tomorrow. and you can always talk to me at ari melber online. i mentioned beyonce winning the grammy's record last night for most ever. who do you think is the best musician ever? is the beyonce or someone else across the ages? tell me at ari melber and thanks for spending time with us. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. tonight on "the reidout" --

>> you see, music isn't just the harmony of sound. it's the harmony of human beings, of different races, genders, religions, identities, sexual orientations knowing we're different but rejecting division to find moments of joy and unity and harmony. and that's what music is all about. >> yes, the right's biggest nightmare. a celebration of everything they fear broadcast to an audience of millions. they can't stop it, but they surely will keep on trying. >> also tonight, the florida governor's efforts to whitewash history preceded very controversial changes by the college board to a proposed a.p. african american studies course. but was desantis behind the updates? kimberly crenshaw, one of the scholars expunged from the course joins me. i'll also talk to an executive with the college board. and we are on the eve of president biden's state of the

union address, following a year of impressive victories. now he looks ahead to next year and increasingly likely re-election campaign. and good evening, everyone. we begin the "the reidout" with a big thank you to my friend michael steele for steering the sharship reedthis week and with last night's grammy awards. i hadn't watched in years but i really enjoyed it, although i'm not sure everybody else did. it was, to put it mildly, the celebration of the very thing the american right has turned into its latest anti-wokeness bogeyman. diversity, equity, and inclusion. the show opened with puerto rican singer bad bunny singing 99% in spanish, then host trevor noah walked and talked through a room that was diversity, equity, and inclusion in human form. the first country americana artist to perform, brandi carlile, was introduced by her wife and daughters. we saw the first trans artist

win a grammy, who has a hit song with sam smith, the british singer who came out in 2019 as nonbinary. black actor superstar viola davis became an egot, winning a grammy to add to her golden globe, oscar. lizzo, beyonce took home her 32nd grammy to become the most grammy decorated singer in all time. besting george sulte. record of the year went to harry styles, a british male singer who frequently puts on dresses to pose in magazines and is a sex symbol to women and men because of it, and there was a 15-minute epic tribute to the 50th anniversary of hip-hop. so yeah. culture wars are over, and the left won. like total defeat. i could only imagine the heads exploding in red states. i imagine ron desantis is somewhere stalking through his

governor's mansion trying to figure out how to ban the airing of the grammys in florida and take away cbs's tax exemptions. no educational value, queer theory, black music. it's a helpful reminder that despite the almost hysterical war the right is waging to take the culture back to the john wayne era, they're not just losing. they literally cannot win. cultural progression is relentless. once people get a taste of modernity, they almost never go back willingly. red state governors and legislators can ban as many books as they want, but people can still buy them on amazon and literally hand them to their kids. young americans are still going to find out the awful parts of american history. they're not idiots. they can read and watch youtube and tiktok videos that talk about this history. brave teachers are still going to tell them the truth. lgbtq people are not going away. and not going back into the closet. if you ban drag shows more people are going to want to watch them. they can literally watch them on weird here and rupaul's drag

race. what are you going to do? ban tv itself, ban watching things with your eyes? and we have been here before with this war on progressive interracial modern culture. white supremacy has always been at war with it, and one instance of that war involves square dancing. stay with me. i'm going someplace here. if you think about american culture, the culture that we export to the world, you probably think about hollywood, as you should, but musically, the exports that are quintessentially american, gospel, blues, rock 'n' roll, country, hip-hop, all came from the same roots. the africans who were enslaved in the millions in america and who created their own musical language. music that was born out of desperate pain but which became quintessentially american. here's a clip from the 1619 project's music episode. >> the basis of american popular music began on the plantation, where our ancestors melded their traditions and rituals with christianity and created the

sorrow songs otherwise known as spirituals. these would become the first american music. during the era following the end of slievry, they toured the country and even went overseas drawing audiences that included mark twain, president ulysses s. grant, and queen victoria. and it is the music of the jubilee singers that people hear in europe and start to say, okay, now america has its own classical music. >> but there is no more american, more african american, and more culturally amalgamated american music than jazz. like rock 'n' roll, it was picked up and adopted by white artists who, and i'm looking at you, apple music, often get credited with creating it. but the people who actually create it, innovated it, and performed it were black musicians. here's another clip. >> jazz was born in the heart of black new orleans.

and quickly drew international adoration. but even as it was beloved in london or paris, that didn't mean that love translated to america. white people were concerned that jazz was a corruptive force that would lead to race mixing. there's this fear and this understanding that embracing the music can mean literal embracing of the people or just a sort of humanistic embracing of the people. both of which america is not interested in at the time. >> and the interracial ensembles that leans into jazz often performing in highly segregated venues. mostly included two kinds of people. black musicians and jewish musicians. that created a huge problem for america's white supremacists in the 1920s and '30s. cue henry ford, one of america's greatest businessman and one of our history's most notorious racists. quote, jazz is a jewish creation, automotive tycoon henry ford wrote in his

anti-semitic publication, the international jew. the abandoned sensuousness of sliding notes are of jewish origin. now, most americans rightly think of jazz as an african american art form, but ford, the only american person personally praised by adolf hitler saw jazz dancing as part of a conspiracy to throw america into a dark age. yes, all that hip swinging, close dancing, race mixing, bad, bad. henry ford had a solution. square dancing. which ford believed would make american culture more gentile, more wholesome, more european. ford sparked a national movement by pouring a small fortune into revitalizing square dancing in the 1920s. decades after it was abandoned by american pop culture. he founded -- he funded radio shows and dance clubs and invited hundreds of dance instructions to his home. 34 colleges added early american dancing to their curricula.

many of us, myself included, had square dancing as a required class in elementary school. in denver, they carted us to downtown denver for these culture awareness classes over the course of a week where we were taught a multicultural mix of irish folk dancing, the hustle, for the black piece, and square dancing. and millions of american kids did the same but few knew why. 28 states made square dancing the state dance as part of a larger push in the late 1960s to make folk dancing the country's national dance. president ronald reagan capitulated briefly in the 1980s, declaring square dancing to be the national dance. but americans by and large said no. no. today, millions of americans revere jazz as a brilliant american art form. you can name jazz artists, ella fitzgerald, miles davis, and last night, a new future icon

was added, samara joy, who is giving sara vaughn energy. but trying to wrestle american popular culture out of the hands of forward leaning creatively woke people is always a fool's errand. henry ford or for ron desantis or really anyone. the more you know. happy black history month. joining me is kimberly crenshaw, executive director and cofounder of the african american policy forum and a leading scholar of critical race theory. thank you for being here. and indulging my obsession with the history of square dancing. i literally am obsessed with them. >> no idea, joy. no idea. >> that's why i love history. you learn something new every day. >> if you're allowed to. >> if you're allowed to. that is the point i want to bring up. you are at the center of a lot of the right's pathological fear of critical race theory and intersectionality. i wonder how it feels for you in a world in which that was the grammys, it was

intersectionalism embodied but given that is the real world, how do you feel to be at the center of this war on history? >> yeah. well, it actually is quite confusing from day to day. i mean, i'll give you another contrast. we have been talking about this pushback against the most critical ideas that were once in the a.p. course, how much these ideas have been under pressure from the cohort that i call the, you know, anti-crt, the anti-woke cohort. and it seems as though there are many people who if they don't agree with it, they're willing to facilitate it. you have that on the one hand. and you see critical ideas like intersectionality, like queer theory, like black lives matter being pushed out of the curriculum and benched. and then on the other hand, we

had an event just friday at yale, so many students came that they were literally hanging off the rafters. so much of a demand for this new kind of sensibility, ways of understanding the world that we live in. and so you have this conflict between the two. i totally agree with what you said. they can try to stomp it out. people will still demand it. but here's the thing. in the meantime, a lot of damage can be done. teachers can be fired, which they are, ask matthew hahn and so many others, for teaching black lives matter or for teaching an essay by conaheisey coats. contrary careers can be ended. legacies of thought developed over the last 75 years can be rendered illegitimate because a decision that is made to actually make education abide by the lowest common denominator,

and that is frankly the neo confederate states below the mason dixon who say we don't want this education. we don't want these ideas. we don't want people to think about changing the world for the better, and the college board happens to eliminate precisely the things they don't want. i don't think it matters why they did it, really, and when they did it. what matters is the fact that they did it. >> right, and the thing about it, it's a war on language in a way, too. they have taken the word woke, which was a black terminology that black folk would say because if you're walking in the world as a black penitentiary, you can be lynched, beaten, you don't know when you have a good white person that's not going to hurt you. they say stay woke, stay awake. they turned that into an epithet. they have taken critical race theory, changed the meaning completely and applied it. they said they were going to do it. they said i'm going to change the meaning of these words, and people buy into it. but i want to play for you, because the quality of people who are fighting this fight, it

varies greatly. marjorie taylor greene has decided she's going to up her intellectual reputation and pretend like she's a real congresswoman. i want to let you listen to her attempting to question and badger a witness in whatever committee she's in on the questions of critical race theory, wokeness, et cetera. here's marjorie taylor greene being congresswoman. >> can you tell me how much covid cash went to crt? >> crt? >> critical race theory in education. it's a racist curriculum used to teach children that somehow their white skin is not equal to black skin and other things. in illinois, they received $5.1 billion at an elementary school there that used it for equity and diversity. >> one school in illinois did not receive $5 billion. and her definition of critical race theory, it's a theory that

says white children and their white skin are inferior. really? >> really. >> is that what it is? >> and joy, this is what's so frustrating about it. because the right has demonized critical race theory, too many people who know nothing about it are willing to say, well, it's controversial so we have to step away from it without realizing when they say critical race theory, they're talking about diversity and inclusion. they're talking about cognitive bias, structural racism. what they have managed to do was to gentrify the entire term critical race theory and put everything they didn't like about social justice advocacy in it. and basically, counted on the media to largely say okay, too hot to handle. we're not going to interrogate what it actually is, and when we have been saying look, they're coming after everything, people basically didn't believe it.

now they see, they're coming after diversity and inclusion. they're coming after african american studies. they came after lgbtq issues. if anyone is concerned about the rightward drift of this country, the move to authoritarianism, the idea that legislatures can actually decide what you can read, what your students, what your kids can study, then they need to get involved in this right now. because this is telling us what the future looks like unless we stop it. >> and the future look like, in florida right now, if you go on the department of education website, they have like a black history month motif on the website. they are like, we want to have a contest for third graders to write essays and school kids to write essays about black history, but they heavily suggest that they should write things about a black man who started as a slave and then became a millionaire, western civilization. they want to do james weldon johnson, but i don't think they know the words to lift every

voice and sing. if they read the third stance of that, they might not want to have the kids do that, because that's something about, you know, the pain african americans have faced, and diversity, equity, and inclusion literally isn't just black people. it's also disabled veterans. it's people who are disabled, all kinds of people. they're just so focused on it's black people who want revolution. and that's just what they think it is. >> and intersectionality brings in people who are black and female or working class and queer, or are disabled and not english as the first language. what they're afraid of is people start to see common cause with each other. they're afraid that's going to create a winning coalition, and they have actually said it, it's not a mystery what they're concerned about. the mystery frankly for me is why other people don't wake up to it, why we acquiesce to it. if we don't start to fight this, this is what the next presidential campaign is going to look like.

and this is what may win unless we say no. >> before we go, let me show you, this is what they think of what black history month should be. let me show you this cruiser. this is miami, folks. this is what they're doing in miami. they're going to pull up to you in a cruiser wrapped in like black history motif. they're like, do that instead of learning about history. don't do that. stay woke. kimberly cren saw, you're going to, we're going to. stay woke, y'all. >> up next on "the reidout," the college board is under fire for changes they made to their african american studies curriculum, following criticism from ron desantis. an executive with the college board joins me next to discuss. "the reidout" continues after this. if your business kept on employees through the pandemic,

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as we continue to celebrate black mystery month, we have told you about the war on history coming from the right. specifically african american history. that was exemplified last month when the governor of the supposed free state of florida outlawed an advanced placement course on that subject, claiming among other things it, quote, significantly lacks educational value. just weeks after the uproar from desantis and his allies, the college board rolled out a new framework for the course that appeared to address many of those criticisms. the college board issued a statement refuting that any changes were made as a result of any politicians' remarks and were in fact decided upon last year. we wanted to get to the bottom of this so we decided to bring on a member of the college board

to help explain it. joining me is steve, college board senior vice president. thank you so much for being here. >> thanks for having me, joy. >> absolutely. i don't know if you were able to hear kimberly crenshaw and her critique of what was done and the damage that's being done because of the changes that were made to the course. what's your response? >> first of all i just want to say it's been really frustrating for me and i think many others to see the good works of scholars like professor crenshaw and many other scholars whose names have been mentioned on the internet and in major reports. it's frustrating to see their good works caricatured over many, many years. i would like an opportunity to really explain what's happening at the college board, and i'm happy to dive into that. >> yeah, please do. let me read you, i want to start by reading you what "the new york times" reported. i know this is a big thing of

dispute at the college board. this is what they wrote. in light of the conservative criticism, the college board seems to opt out. slavery, reconstruction of the civil rights movement, red lining, as well as stories of individual achievement and heroism. but the study of contemporary issues including black lives matter, incarceration, queer life, and the debate over reparations is downgraded. the subjects are no longer part of the exam and are simply offered as a list of options for a required research project and even that list could be refined by local states and districts. what's your response? >> my response is that is a cynical reading of what's in the framework. and by the way, as we mentioned in our rebuttal to "the new york times," the framework was completed long before these politicians began, and it's many

politicians who provided input into what should or should not be in the course. the framework was complete before that. and our framework is actually available. if people want to gee to our website and download it. when i look at page 218 of the framework, i see topics listed in a research project, a research project which is more than just a survey. it allows you to go very deeply into a topic. those topics include affirmative action, black lives matter, reparations debates in the u.s., the legacy of red lining, crime, criminal justice, and incarceration. movements led by black women including the river collective which was a rights movement led by black lesbian women who didn't feel they had a place in the black civil rights movement led by men or feminist movement largely led by white women. so it's been really, i guess, fascinating is the term i'll

use, to see these accusations that topics that are in there that we provide sources for, including, for example, professor crenshaw's famous article on intersectionality, is actually in the digital library that students will have access to. so knowing all of this, it's been a really fascinating week and a half. >> well, look, here's the thing. and i believe you when you say that ron desantis did not prompt you to change the curriculum. ron desantis is not some intellectual giant that anyone listens to. he's coming out in january and critiquing what was in it and saying they wouldn't allow it in florida. he just pulls ideas from wherever he thinks he can build his presidential campaign. he's not some guy sitting around thinking about critical race theory. i believe you on that. here's the problem. before ron desantis opened his mouth, one of the places that he presumably pulled some of the ideas he thinks will help him politically is places like the

national review. the national review actually started attacking the curriculum in september. the national review wrote this, this was september 12th, 2022. they said the courses political bias is so egregious the presence or absence of crt laws is almost beside the point. no state or school district is obligated to tolerate indoctrination of this scale. this course is wrong for our schools, governors, legislators and local education officials must act accordingly. and they talk about things like the black liberal tradition, black radical tradition need to be included. they suggest including conservative writers, they name some specifically. literally almost everything that they complained about was changed. if you look at the original framework that was put out and then you look at what they wrote, and even the specific people they cited including kimberly crenshaw, those things were moved out of the part where

you take the test on it and moved as you said into the research project part. is that a coincidence that almost everything the national review complained about in september was changed? >> it's not true. i need to take you into the sausage making to understand what happened. someone leaked a draft document to the national review. this is the first year we are running this course. it is a pilot that's in 60 schools. normally, an advanced placement course has two parts. it has a framework that has learning objectives and essential knowledge students must master and it has a digital library where sources reside. in the first year of the pilot, all of that is in one draft document. it hasn't been separated. when we released half of -- one of the two parts, folks jumped on the fact that some of the names that appeared in the draft document did not appear in the

framework. that's because those names will appear in the digital library, and as i mentioned, very specifically, with professor crenshaw, because she's been the focus of this, we obtained permission to use her very famous article on intersectionality in june of 2022, long before the national review or any politicians became involved in this. so the narrative is simply incomplete. >> what you're saying -- i think we have a side by side, and we know that like a dozen states had already banned so-called critical race theory. and that the college board's income comes largely from selling these a.p. courses. if that many states were to start banning pieces of this, this could impact the college board, let's be honest, a nonprofit, but you want to market these courses. you're saying it's coincidental that basically everything that

the national review complained about in september, forget desantis, he's just one wee governor in a big state, everything they complained about is different in the new framework and you're saying that's coincidental? >> so i think the whole country isn't aware of what's being called anti-crt legislation. i have read some of it out of a morbid curiosity myself. i can't predict how folks will react in these state legislatures when they take a look at what's in the digital library. many of the authors who folks say are not included in the course, people like michelle alexander, robin kelly, kimberly crenshaw, onahosy koets, we obtained rights for their articles and books and they're in the digital library.

i don't know how to explain it any more thoroughly than that, but those works are there. they have not been excised. >> i appreciate you coming through. thank you very much. we really appreciate your time. i can tell you, when i read through the framework on the course, i want to take the class. i wish i could just audit the class and take it. >> thank you. say it again. >> i wish they had it when i was in high school. thank you very much. >> president biden goes on the attack against maga republicans ahead of tomorrow's state of the union address, as we await an announcement on whether he will run again in 2024. more on that when we come back.

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for her second state of the union address tomorrow night. the big speech before his presumed re-election bid. he's expected to tout his accomplishments and make the case to the american people about why he deserves a second term. he does have momentum on his side with unemployment at a 50-year low, gas prices on the downswing, inflation leveling out, and several big legislative achievements under his belt. but he's also dealing with a divided congress for the first time controlled by a party filled with insurrectionists and extremists determined to hand the country over to trump or someone just like him. joining me is jaime harrison, and i'm going to start this interview by embarrassing you and wishing you a happy birthday. >> thank you, joy. >> so happy birthday. you're celebrating by being on with you, which is either really amazing or bad and you should have a drink somewhere, but i'm going to say really great. i want to talk about biden because there's one thing he did that maybe was your birthday

present. they made a huge change in the way the nomination process is going to work, moving it from iowa, which is a very unrepresentative state, to your home state of south carolina. was that a specific birthday present to you and what do you think it will change? >> no, joy, it was not a specific birthday present to me, but i'm overjoyed about it. when you think about this calendar that we now have, it really reflects the diversity of not only this country but the democratic party. you got three small states that you start off with, south carolina, which is a state that we know is so impactful in terms of determining who our nominee is in this party, since 1992, south carolina has picked every single nominee eventual nominee with the exception of 2004 in john edwards. you then move to new hampshire and nevada. nevada has this huge latino population and labor. then you move out to bigger states, georgia, the home of the new south, and then michigan,

where the middle class was born. and so it's an amazing calendar that we have. i think it is reflective of today's democratic party, and this is just one of yet a whole long line of things that we should be applauding president biden for. yeah, he saw that we needed to bring more voices to the table. >> i get it, and i think he also, and i think biden can be sort of funny. he's like funny biden sometimes and bidening so he's like huggy biden sometimes, but he's also biden who understands power. it's going to be hella hard for anyone to take this nomination from him if they can't play the new hampshire/iowa game, build up caucus votes in iowa and win outright early. it's a power move too. i wonder where biden sits right now. there's a lot of accomplishments he could run for re-election on. the big infrastructure bill, which is putting just a trillion dollars on the table for states.

inflation reduction act, lowest unemployment since may 1969, lowering prescription drug costs, pasted the most significant gun control legislation in 30 years, the largest investment in climate change, $10,000 per borrower student loan relief which is currently in court with republicans. decriminalizing marijuana possession, yut the polls show americans feel like he hasn't done anything. what is that about, do you think? >> i think the big thing, joy, is we just got to get out there and make sure that folks understand that we have done so much. i mean, one other thing we could add, more jobs created in two years than any other president has created in four years. accomplishment after accomplishment after accomplishment. this president has delivered for the american people, and we just need to make sure that we get out there to sell that so they understand it. that they see the whole breadth of all of this. and when they do, the reason why

you elect a president is because you want them to do something. this president has done a whole lot. and so there's a lot to be proud of. there's a lot to sell. and sometimes it's so much that you have to pick and choose which one it is, but i think we just need to go out there and make sure we're talking to the american people. >> the kind of conceit is that republicans are better at the stage show and democrats are just better at governing. sometimes they're so busy governing that they're not selling. you have to always be selling in politics. this is a ticket, not just joe biden, this is joe biden and kamala harris. >> and kamala harris. >> and kamala harris who is an historic figure, the most powerful black woman who has ever existed in the united states. do you think the administration has done enough to put her out there? to use her in the most effective way? i think about issues like, you know, what's happening with tyre nichols. these issues she led on as a senator, gun reform, things like roe v. wade. you have a woman vice president. is she, do you think, being used

enough and used well enough? >> i know the vice president is going to be hitting the road a whole lot. you know, joy, part of it is that she's been anchored to the senate for two years because we had a 50/50 senate. she had to be there to break these and make these historic -- this historic legislation. she had to break the ties for them. all of these judges we appointed, the more african american women on the appellate court than all presidents combined. and many times the vp was right there, late at night, breaking those tie votes. now, since we have some cushion there, she is going to go all over the country, but also all over the world. she's made some historic progress in terms of rebuilding trust overseas for us. and so she's a tremendous asset on the team. and we -- i'm proud to have her. >> well, i would like next time you talk to vice president harris, let her know when she's going around the country and the world, we would like her to come

right here and talk to us on "the reidout." we would love to have her back. she can tell us about all of the things she's up to. jaime harrison, thank you very much. we would like the president on, too. we appreciate you. >> coming up, remember this? >> republicans freak out over a chinese spy balloon. just one, because apparently chinese spy balloons are the most important item on their agenda, oh, yeah, and hunter's laptop and hillary's emails.

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at this point, you probably know the chinese spy balloon is no longer aloft. over the weekend, an f-22 raptor shot it down off the coast of south carolina. u.s. forces have collected parts of the it bree and are studying its capabilities to better understand china's true intent. you also probably got word of the republican party's shrill hysteria. >> the u.s. had to see it coming and decided they wouldn't do anything earlier on. >> imagine how this would have played out if nobody had taken any pictures of the balloon, if nobody in montana and looked up and noticed this giant balloon. >> the president was paralyzed for an entire week by a balloon.

>> the predtaking it down over the atlantic is like tackling the quarterback after the game is over. >> we have not seen this much republican outrage since this balloon flew over london. i didn't notice this when chinese balloons flew over the trump administration. this happens fairly regularly. according to a senior administration official, dod tracks hundreds of balloons every day, but they're typically not deemed a threat. their presence close to or over the united states would not be brought to the attention of senior leaders unless their behavior was out of the ordinary, like this one. according to bloomberg, chinese surveillance balloons flew over the continental united states at least three times during the trump years, according to a senior administration until after president biden took office. donald trump and his family don't have best track record on a coherent china policy, but coherence isn't at the point. and the republican response has

shown a complete lack of just basic seriousness. this, of course, it's all just a performance. joining me now is david rothkopf, columnist for the daily beast, and host of the deep state radio podcast. and mr. david rothkopf, i believe that you and i are similarly skeptical of the lethal nature of this problem, because i mean, to be fair, it could've been the ways, and one never knows what the wiz might do with all that power. so, your thoughts on the republican hysteria over that balloon? >> well, you know, they have become a bunch of balloon attics -- [laughter] -- they had never seen a simple fact which they could've turned into a conspiracy theory. people in fox saying, oh, the balloon contained weapons, and the balloon contained little tiny balloons that will then spread across the country. you even had the former president saying maybe it was a manned balloon. and, you know, they ignored several things, one, this has

happened before, as you said, and it has happened during the trump administration. they didn't do it. the chinese didn't do this in other places. the biden administration detected it, followed it, disabled it, and ultimately, shot a down. and oh, by the way, you know, the chinese have -- i don't know, 60 or 70 satellites doing surveillance all the time. they've got spies. we have hundreds of satellites doing this. this is going on constantly. we weren't in any more danger. it's an embarrassment for the chinese. they are unlikely to do it again because of the way it was handled -- >> yeah. >> but that doesn't stop these people from clutching their perils, swooning, coming up with idiotic ideas, and actually, you know, they are embarrassing themselves, and they are embarrassing the country. >> well, and the thing is, it's the lack of the sort of basic seriousness. i joke about the 99 red balloons and all that, because

it makes us look silly in the world. some of these people in the -- who has been in the gang of eight, kevin mccarthy, currently kevin mccarthy, hakeem jeffries, the ranking member is a nine game jim hines, mike turner, chuck schumer has been in this, mitch mcconnell, and mark warner, and marco rubio. marco rubio is one of the people who did the greatest histrionics about this. this is somebody who's been briefed on intelligence. he understands in theory what threats to the u.s. looked like. and yet, he joined the course. it feels like a performance that's more about their personal political ambitions than it is about national security. >> well, there's reason for that. it's not their personal political ambitions, and it has nothing to do with national security. and marco rubio has started out, when he was in the senate, he's seen for a moment or two like he might be serious about, you know, making a contribution. but he quickly sold out, sold out to trump, sold out to trumpism, came up with crazy lies, bought in the conspiracy theories, and that's what he's

done again here. and, you know, we deserve better, that song that you ditches such a great rendition of, you know, it's about a bunch of balloons floating across the border, and accidentally triggering a world war that lasted 99 years. and, you know, that's the kind of thing we need to worry about. we need to worry about taking small things and escalating them into big things, and turning it into real amity. we can do that with better communications with the chinese, not less. and these guys aren't helping at all. >> well, and the reason, what you just said makes me nervous, is that i'm old enough to remember that that happened to iraq, that this long enmity that was built up about a really horrible person, but they hadn't attacked us in any way, eventually led to a war that was very lucrative for some folks. a lot of that made a lot of money pushing to evade invade

iraq and then occupy and rebuild what we dropped bombs on. so, it was like there's a part of the republican party that is pushing toward something that could look like conflict, which it makes me nervous. >> it should make you nervous. look, china is a rival. china's on some issues and adversary. china is building up its nuclear weapons program. we need to be very careful about china. this administration has done more to deal with that than any other administration in u.s. history. but we don't need another cold war. you know, there are people in the defense establishment who would love to see another cold war. they would love to see an 800 ship navy. they'd love to see a spent tens and hundreds of billions of dollars more, and that's why they're pushing this narrative. it is too simple. it is dangerous. >> and i will note, if they wanted to do hearings, i would like to see hearings on ivanka trump's multiple trademarks

that she got in quick fast hurry, when she was the daughter of the president and his advisor, while he was in the white house. and on donald trump allegedly released the former national security guy, information, trying to have china lay off of china, having republicans lay off on china because he wanted she jinping's help in the 2020 election. let's have hearings on that. david rothkopf, thank you so much, sir. much appreciated. we'll be right back. ht back. lomita feed is 101 years old this year and counting. i'm bill lockwood, current caretaker and owner. when covid hit, we had some challenges like a lot of businesses did.

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check out the latest in our series, black history uncensored on the reidout block. today, jon jones highlights the work of icon alice walker in the decades-long fight by republicans to keep her book off the shelves. other right back here tomorrow night at of president biden's state of the union address. then, stay tuned, as i join my pals, rachel maddow and nicole wallace for live coverage of the address, beginning at 8 pm eastern. all right, all in with chris hayes starts right now. starts right now ♪ ♪ ♪ >>