research to hold back their work. >> scholarship is so important, and this is a flashpoint in our political conversations. at the moment, and certainly heading into next year. nicholas johnston of axios, thank you for being with us this morning. >> thank you for getting up "way too early" on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. a lot of republicans, their dream is to discuss social security and medicare. let me say this, it is your dream, but my veto pen will make it a nightmare. here's actually the good news. there's a lot of good republicans. i found it interesting. when i called them out on it last night, it sounded like they agreed to take these cuts off the table. remember i said -- i'm serious, remember what i said? so you're not going to cut it, huh? no. i said, okay, we got a deal. well, i sure hope that's true. >> president joe biden continues his populist push, hammering a

republican proposal that could bring cuts to social security and medicare, calling out lawmakers by name who have supported those cuts. >> i mean, he negotiated, basically, with republicans on the house floor. >> it was quite a sight to see. >> they conceded. i mean, his position -- >> it's a strong one. meanwhile, house republicans yesterday were focused on hunter biden, big tech. >> that's what america really wants. >> and the fbi. we'll show you the big moments from a grievance-fueled house oversight committee hearing. plus, new york congressman george santos doubles down on his criticism of senator mitt romney following romney's confrontation of the embattled new york lawmaker at the state of the union. mitt romney, of course, saying what everyone should be saying on the republican side. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, february 9th. good to have you all with us. with us in washington, white house editor for "politico," sam

stein. washington bureau chief for "usa today," susan page. pulitzer prize-winning columnist at "the washington post," eugene robinson. and the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. and along with willie in new york is msnbc contributor mike barnicle and former white house press secretary, now an msnbc host, jen psaki. >> just massive. >> this is a big -- this is a big start to the show. i'm overwhelmed. >> morning of a thousand stars. no, let's not. let's talk, willie. >> okay. >> the end of an era. >> what's that? >> the yankees, montreal canadiens -- >> what did i miss? >> i know where you're going. i got you. >> flat earth society. >> willie's got ya. >> i mean, all of these great sports dynasties changed the way we looked at the game. >> i'm confused. >> now, and now it is no more.

>> the brooklyn nets. yes, the brooklyn nets, the super team assembled a couple years ago. >> right, with memories, willie, by the way, that will last us a lunchtime. >> memories that didn't last much out of the first round of the playoffs, unfortunately, for nets fans. they brought in durant. they brought in james harden. they brought in kyrie irving over the last couple years. three hall of famers put together. eliminated in the first round in their first year together. in the second round their second year together. now, they are all gone. james harden last year was gone to the sixers. kyrie irving just demanded a trade, is in dallas now. last night, kevin durant made no secret he wanted out of brooklyn and was traded to the phoenix suns, creating a new super team in phoenix. he's won a couple titles doing that. remember, he went to the warriors about seven, eight years ago, won two titles, was the mvp of the finals both years. he's got his rings, now he is chasing another one in phoenix.

>> well, gene, i mean, phoenix, you know, they've got a pretty good -- >> booker. >> -- team. no flat earthers there. >> no flat earthers. >> that we know of. >> that we know of. you know, pretty good weather. i mean, you know, i think kevin durant is coming out fine here. the problem in brooklyn, really, was that in the nba, they play with only one basketball instead of three. >> right. >> if you're going to have harden and irving and durant, you really need three basketballs. because they all need and want the basketball to score. >> right. >> so that didn't work out. >> got it. >> but -- >> why do you think we only let mike barnicle on two, three days a week? he's a ball hog. >> and he doesn't show up. >> pass it, i'm open, i'm open. pass it, i'm open. >> k.d., i think he's got a shot of doing in phoenix what he did in golden state. >> great ballplayer. mike barnicle, do you have

anything to add to this conversation early in the morning? >> actually, i do. i can want wait for -- >> uh-oh. >> -- kyrie irving, a true flat earth guy, as you eluded to, joe, in dallas. i can't wait for his musings on the grassy knoll and what happened to jfk in dallas. he will go there after about a week. >> well, he scored 24 points in his debut, and luka doncic said, "wow." >> then he was like, what was he saying about jfk jr.? >> right. >> i'm going to get to the news. >> all qanon, all the time. former twitter employees grilled on capitol hill yesterday. >> this didn't go the way they expected, did it? >> no. >> in an attempt to prove the social media company singled out -- okay, right-wing voices for censorship. in a six-hour house oversight committee hearing, the four former employees faced questions

about the company's decision to ban the sharing of a 2020 ""new york post"" article which made unsubstantiated claims about then candidate joe biden's youngest son, hunter, shortly after "the post" printed the article. hacked material was the reason for blocking the story. twitter since admitted that decision was a mistake. in yesterday's hearing, the former employees refuted claims that the site colluded with the biden campaign and fbi to influence the results of the 2020 election. in fact, a former employee said yesterday that it was actually the trump white house that tried to influence twitter's content. >> what? >> after model -- this is where we're at -- after model chrissy teigen responded to this attack against her by then -- the then president in 2019. >> you testified about a 2019 tweet that was about president trump. i think it was from ms. teigen.

what was the tweet about? >> would you like me to give the direct quote? >> yeah. >> please excuse my language. this is a direct quote, but chrissy teigen referred to donald trump as a [ bleep ]. >> okay. free speech. and what happened after ms. teigen posted her tweet? what did the white house do? what did the trump white house do? >> from my understanding, the white house reached out to ask that this tweet be removed. >> yeah. another moment yesterday, that same employee revealed that her bosses changed twitter's internal rules. mika and i know something about this. >> yeah. >> a lot about this. to accommodate trump's hateful rhetoric against immigrants. >> i'd like to show you a tweet posted by former president trump about my colleagues and i on july 14th, 2019. it says, in part, quote, why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which

they came? >> my team made the recommendation that, for the first time, we find donald trump in violation of twitter's policies. >> twitter's policy included a specific example when it came to banned abuse against immigrants. they specifically included the phrase "go back to your country" or "go back to where you came from," correct? >> that was in the guidance as an example. >> you brought this up to the vice president of safety, correct? >> i did, yes. >> she overrode your assessment, didn't she? >> yes. >> something interesting happened after that. a day or two later, twitter seemed to have changed their pol policies, didn't you? >> yes, "go back from where you came from" was removed from the guidance as an example. >> twitter changed their own policy after the president violated it in order to potentially accommodate his tweet? >> yes. >> thank you. so much for bias against right wing on twitter.

>> it's just -- >> good job. >> it is shocking, isn't it? it is actually the opposite of what the republicans said was happening. again, mika and i saw it, dealing with twitter. wait a second, so it is legal for a guy to accuse somebody else of murder 12 times, but it violates all of these policies. they go, yeah, well, we're looking into that. in this case, on this racist trope that fascists use, "go back to where you came from," they actually stopped letting that be a banned phrase because they wanted to change the rules for donald trump. in fact, willie, this entire hearing reminds me of that scene in the classic movie "the other guys." where will ferrell -- >> oh, god. >> stay with me because this is -- >> it always comes back to will

ferrell. >> give moment in movie history. patiently explains to mark wahlberg, after mark wahlberg says that lions will eat tuna, how his family of tuna will devise breathing devices and devour the entire pride of line. >> okay. >> i'm just saying. what was the punch line? will ferrell goes, that didn't really turn out the way you expected, did it? and neither did this hearing! republicans made fools of themselves again. they tried to -- it's just like the fbi. the fbi, the new york office's leaks against hillary clinton for two years, james comey's letter elected donald trump. they're trying to say the fbi was going after donald trump? it's just not. and the same thing here. they keep doing these things that never turn out the way they expect. >> will ferrell also said, as he flipped that on mark wahlberg, guess what? now we have a taste for lion,

speaking of the tuna. now we're coming at you. we have turned the tables. we tuna, we're coming after you. we lost so many people with these references. we'll continue to dive deeper into them. should we recite -- >> watch "the other guys." >> willie, continue. >> huge oscar snubs for that movie. we'll talk about that later. jen, as you watch these play out, as someone inside the room as a lot of this was happening, so much of this for conservatives was based on a "new york post" tweet about hunter biden's laptop. as congresswoman ocasio-cortez and others exposed, there was a lot going on in twitter that allowed everything that ran up to january 6th. >> i'm not going to quote "the other guys." i have no more quotes to offer. >> fair enough. >> but i will say, the largest issue here, if you were running a local political campaign and you're running ads on television, and you say something inaccurate about your opponent, guess what happens? the ad is pulled down. these platforms live by a different set of rules, and people consume more information

from them than any other source of media. think of the danger of that. with that in mind, as alexandria ocasio-cortez said, they're allowing hate speech, racism. also, let's not forget, inaccurate information about vaccines and how they can save your lives. they run rampant on these platforms. what these republicans are doing, essentially, just to break down past all of this crazy word salad of yesterday, they are defend the pushing of inaccurate, dangerous information on the platforms that most people receive information from. that is racist, dangerous, prompted january 6th, is prompting people not to get vaccinated. that's what they're defending. that's the hill they have decided they want to die on. >> yeah, it appears, mike, republicans have walked into this one pretty poorly. to jen's point, a lot of the tweets taken down by the congressmen and women objecting yesterday to twitter were because of bad information about

the pandemic, bad information about vaccines, bad information that could be dangerous to people's lives, not because they made a joke, as lauren boebert said, about hillary clinton. >> well, there's all of that, absolutely, but there's also the misreading of what's going on beyond the committee room where those hearings were held. >> yes. >> i mean, the idea that they think, apparently, their strategy is to key in on people vastly interested in what is going on on twitter. >> this is what they care about, hunter biden's laptop and photos of hunter biden that nobody wants to see. that is what they are defending having out there. >> nobody. >> the other night at the state of the union, we were just talking about it off air, the president of the united states spoke briefly about the horrendous nature of costs of flying. if you're taking your family to a vacation. >> and resort fees. >> extra charges for baggage. separate charge for a different seat, stuff like that. that resonates. this, hunter's laptop with

continued hearings and haranguing about language and everything about that, i suppose at some level it's important, but the larger cosmic level in terms of reaching people, i don't think so. >> nope, no. >> and it just doesn't prove what they expected to prove. >> right. >> when you dig into it, again, we saw time and time again, they were bending over backwards to protect donald trump. >> absolutely. >> twitter was shameless. they were scared of donald trump. >> threatened people's lives. >> oh, yeah. >> to know that. trump's lies only intensified leading up to the january 6th insurrection. although he was banned from the platform after the capitol attack, former employees said yesterday that they urged the company to take action before the violence but claimed those pleas fell on deaf ears. despite the evidence presented, republicans continued to hurl even more baseless attacks against former twitter employees yesterday over issues like their own personal accounts being

banned or suspended for spreading violent rhetoric. >> you didn't shadow, ban or permanently ban my democrat opponent. no, you did that to me. and that was wrong, and it was against the law. here's something that disgusts me about you. you permanently banned my twitter account, but you allowed child porn all over twitter. >> i found out last night from twitter staff that you suppressed my account for this tweet. "it's a freaking joke," about hillary clinton being angry she couldn't rig her election. it's a joke. >> you ladies and gentlemen interfered with the united states 2020 presidential election. knowingly and willing inglywill. that's the bad news. it is going to get worse because this is the investigation part. later comes the arrest part. >> later. >> susan page. >> later comes the arrest for --

>> susan page. >> do you give out felonies for just being dumb? i'm just wondering. >> i hope. >> seriously, there are a lot of republicans on that committee that need to get themselves some good lawyers if they can. >> where do we begin? >> with will ferrell, i think, for starters. >> we also start with january 6th, where, again, because twitter was so scared to cross donald trump, they allowed -- >> thank you. >> -- all of this hate speech, all of this -- >> thanks. >> -- planning, all of these conspiracies to grow up around a, quote, rigged election that led to an insurrection against the united states of america. that's on twitter. >> you know, we've heard about the republican strategy going into this new era with divided government and republican control of the house. we've now seen in the past two days the democratic strategy in response. president biden in the state of the union did not mention these investigations. he focused on a lot of other issues. yesterday, we saw democrats in congress engaging on these

issues in a way to dismantle the charges that have been made that are inaccurate. this is a two-step that may serve democrats well when voters think about the issues that really affect them in their own daily lives. >> sure. >> i'm not joking here, this is microtargeting. this is political microtargeting, sam. they're not speaking to independents. they're not speaking to swing voters or even their own voters in suburbs, highly educated voters that are still voting republican. they're not appealing to them. these are people that are appealing to, i mean, the reddest, red hot trumpers. this is the face of the republican party for the next two years. it is very bad news for republicans in 2024. >> i think there's something -- we were talking about this last time i was on, how issues like gas stoves, for instance, are in republican politics. it's because a lot of republican politicians live in this twitter

echo chamber right now. >> right. >> where these issues become so forceful, that politicians assume the mass of the public care about it. >> maybe the base in their districts. maybe the most extreme people -- >> we're not even sure about that. this could be so micro, it doesn't even reach those people. but, obviously, if you look at the hearing yesterday, you know, you'd have to be in this incredibly tight echo chamber to understand a lot of it. marjorie taylor greene, lauren boebert saying, you shadow banned me. do people actually know what that means? >> it's all about them. are you kidding me? >> it's me, me, me. to pick up on mike barnicle's plan -- i don't like to compliment him, but he has a good point here. >> don't get him started. >> there is other stuff they can focus on that, i think, on the long-term basis would be more strategically fruitful for them. make your first meeting about the drawdown in afghanistan,

misspending pandemic money, biden himself and inflation. this had nothing to do about joe biden. it was personal everything. >> that's the crazy thing. let me just say -- and i don't have to worry about republicans doing this because they're too stupid to. >> uh-huh. >> if i'm running this republican hearing, my first hearing is on afghanistan. the straj tragedy of afghanista. why did he ignore all his generals? what are the consequences of it? how did our allies feel abandoned? do that. it undermines him as a strong leader at a time when he is trying to talk about ukraine. and then move to crime. move to the resurgence of crime since 2020. let democrats go, oh, wait, you're just -- the numbers, it's safer than ever before. let the democrats walk into the trap instead of the republicans, which you're doing. then talk about the border. >> they can't do that. it'll never happen. >> it's not rocket science. >> people are gas stoves. since joe biden has been elected

president, they've talked about dr. seuss, talked about gas stoves, and they've talked about hunter biden's laptop. >> yeah. >> and now twitter. >> twitter. >> they'll sprinkle in the theories. >> i go out and, you know, go home to orangeburg, and i'm talking to folks down at the hardware store. >> the pigly wiggly. >> what do you really think about dr. seuss? >> all they're talking about is dr. seuss and twitter. it is ridiculous. >> not what they're talking about. >> by the way, just as an aside on twitter, there is a simple free market solution that republicans could talk about, back when they believed in free market solution. publishers consider these platforms -- >> they are ventures. >> hold them responsible the way we hold "the washington post"

responsible and others for what they publish. >> willie, the fact these people dare to call themselves conservative when they don't understand the first thing about free speech, they don't understand the first thing about, you know, private enterprise. like, twitter is a private company. marjorie taylor, you know, it's against the law. no, it's not. no, it's not. it's a private company. facebook, sam's wife, does she still -- >> no. >> thank god we don't have to do that. >> let it rip. >> did she move to twitter? >> no, no. >> she's working for -- >> no! >> i'm kidding. i love. so, willie, they say stupid things like, oh, they're violating our first amendment rights. you know, i never told twitter once, you're violating my first amendment rights, or this is

about first amendment rights. they're a private company. i just wanted to sue twitter because they were publishing these tweets, right? why couldn't i? why couldn't i? because of section 230. and this is your great point. >> right. >> if twitter gets something terribly wrong, if they lie about you, if they damage you, you can't sue them. if they really did something terrible to mtg, she should be able to sue them. boebert should be able to sue them. the other guy from louisiana, who may god have pity on his soul, should be able to sue them. but they can't, so they say stupid things like, "oh, this is a first amendment violation." no, it's not. it's a free company. in america, last time i checked,

like, free enterprise, private corporations, they can do pretty much what they want to do, about who they let on their platform. gene is exactly right. if "the washington post" writes something that's a lie about me, a lie about you, a lie about mtg, a lie about lauren boebert, you sue 'em. you hold 'em accountable. by holding them accountable, you make sure they don't do it again. it's kind of like flying on airplanes. mika is scared on flying on airplanes. >> can we not talk about this? >> you know why i'm not scared of flying on airplanes? if the airplane i'm on goes down -- >> oh, my god. >> -- guess what? >> stop it. >> the company, they're going to have to pay a ton of money, and it'll probably go out of business. i'm pretty comfortable. >> willie, take it. >> i better knock on wood somewhere. >> shut up. >> my point is this -- >> [ laughter ]

>> -- you hold the companies responsible in the free marketplace. sue them if they breach common standards. every other company is held accountable to it, but for some reason, these people in silicon valley. >> i've never heard the silver lining of a plane crash before. very interesting. >> oh, my god. >> guess what? there is a reason why american airlines, airlines in the united states are so safe. by the way, conservatives way not like it, it's because the lawyers who were there looking and making sure they maintain their standard of care. guess what? >> what? >> you'll love this ending. >> i'm not. >> the social media companies, willie, they're flying blind. go ahead. >> oh, there you go. tie it up with a nice bow there. yeah, and they sort of cry, you know, we're just opening the gates to the fairgrounds, and it's a place where people have debate and conversation. we can't be liable for that.

no, they're publishers and have been for a long time. that's something to work through. then, jonathan lemire, if you look at the foundations and basis of the committee, the beginning of what we saw yesterday, it was this "new york post" article that people couldn't share for a day. as katie porter, the democrat on the committee said yesterday, this is her quote, for nearly six hours, we've been going back and forth about this supposed suppression of a single news story from a single outlet for a single day. this hearing has been in its length nearly one quarter of the amount of time that twitter users could not share the link. we're spending almost as much time screaming about this as we are -- as this ever was a problem. kind of getting to the heart of the matter here, which if you really want to talk about twitter, as democrats pointed out yesterday, we can talk about twitter and january 6th and a whole bunch of other things. >> yeah. twitter acknowledged they made a mistake there with that article. it was readily available soon thereof and ricochetted around

conservative websites for days. but to the larger, overall point, that the republicans have talked themselves into a box. it's been years in the making. because they have spent so much time on these conspiracies, on the fringes of the right. whether it's about hunter biden's laptop. the alleged deep state conspiracies that have led to the creation of this weaponization of the government committee that's meeting for the first time today. the house oversight committee charged with looking into everything about hunter and his business dealings. they caught themselves in a corner, and they've been doing it for so long, it infiltrated mainstream conservative media, including some of the opinion hosts, primetime on fox news. now, the voters demand it. what i keep hearing from republicans here, outside of those on the extreme right, but more mainstream republicans, they're deeply uncomfortable with these hearings. they know there should be other things to be talking about,

other things that would resonate with a broader spectrum of voters. instead, it is this narrow, narrow sliver. if they don't go through with it, they'll upset that narrow sliver, their base, the online, over the top base that lives to own the libs. >> by the way, so why -- i said they should talk about afghanistan, should talk about the southern border. let's talk about an issue that the base would love. i've heard a lot of democrats quietly bemoan what's happening on college campuses. have real hearings. are there free speech problems for conservatives on college campuses? are there free speech problems? like, that's actually something -- >> great conversation. >> -- that more than 13% of americans care about. jen psaki, the problem also with these hearings are, you look at these issues, they never produce. the twitter files, remember the twitter files? oh, boy. >> yes. >> it's going to be the end. >> it is fascinating that the twitter files had such an

extraordinary blind spot. it ended up being the most bias thing i've ever seen in my life. we find out after the twitter files come out, i guess elon didn't give them all the information about, like, twitter executives cowering in the corner and doing whatever donald trump wanted them to do. you have the twitter files. you've got "the new york post," the hunter biden laptop thing. these things have been looked at. it's just like when they were -- who was the special counsel? durham. i read durham's pleadings and say, okay, something has to be here. mika will tell you. i read one pleading all day and called 30 legal experts and said, "what's here?" they said, "i'm reading it, and i don't think anything is here." conservatives keep doing this. they did it with durham in their witch hunt against the fbi. they did it on hunter biden's laptop and their witch hunt against twitter. they did it on the twitter files, their witch hunt. they only want to go after blue

witches, don't want to go after red witches. these things never, ever produce the punch they expect. >> no. to go back to mike barnicle's earlier point, i mean, this is like a word salad of right-wing craziness, right? if you are just a normal person, 80% of the country, by the way, that is not on twitter, and you're hearing things like, durham, woke mobs, many of the sentences in sarah huckabee sanders' speech the other night, you'll tune in and think, i have no idea what you're talking about. i have to go buy eggs. my health care is too expensive. my prescription drugs are too expensive. i'm not sure about gas. it seems down, but i don't want it to go up. it just feels very far away. so in a strange way, this republican strategy right now has made them seem like this right-wing elite society that is not connected with what is actually happening in the country. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> can i ask a quick poll?

everybody feel better about flying on planes? >> no, stop it. >> a little bit, i guess, yeah. >> yeah. >> still ahead on "morning joe," former president trump is ramping up attack on ron desantis, and the florida governor is hitting back. >> no, no, he is tapping back. >> we'll show you the new numbers. plus, house speaker kevin mccarthy's excuse for republicans who heckled president biden during the state of the union address. also ahead, embattled republican congressman george santos' comments on that tense exchange with senator mitt romney. what he is saying about that. and nato's secretary general jens stoltenberg is our guest this morning. he is meeting with top national security officials in washington, d.c., today to discuss continued assistance for ukraine. do you know santos said romney took out a trident and used it against him? >> ridiculous. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. if i were a lion and you

were a tuna, i'd switch out in the middle of the ocean and freaking eat you. >> a lion swimming in the ocean? lions don't like water. if you placed it near a river or some sort of fresh water source, that makes sense. but you find yourself in the ocean, 20-foot waves, assuming it's off the coast of south africa. coming up against a full-grown, 800-pound tuna with his 20 or 30 friends? you lose that battle. you lose that battle nine times out of ten. guess what, you've wandered into our school of tuna, and we now have a taste of life. we talked to ourselves, communicated and said, you know what, lion tastes good. let's go get some more lion. we've developed a system to establish a beach head and aggressively hunt you and your family. we will corner your pride, your children, your -- >> how you going to do that? >> we'll construct a series of breathing apparatus with kelp. we'll trap certain amounts of oxygen. it is not beginning to be days at a time, but hour, hour 45, no problem. that'll give us enough time to figure out where you live, go

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can't afford your medication? astrazeneca may be able to help. if you have copd, ask your doctor about breztri. biden also talked about the strong jobs market, saying people are working as dancers, philanthropists, broadway producers, and that's just george santos. >> ha-ha. >> that is funny.

beautiful look at new york city. >> 36 past the hour. >> top of mika's penthouse. >> really old joke. >> it's really not old. >> like 15 years. >> we have jokes much older than this one. willie, we're looking at the newspapers. kyrie back in the "daily news," said he felt very disrespected. >> always. >> there were some people in the nets organization that actually believed the earth was round, did not like that. >> disrespectful. >> what's on the front page of the newspaper of record for "morning joe"? >> first, the back page here. mike lupica says lebron is the greatest of all time, the top of the list. your request for the front page of "the new york post," "to grill a mockingbird." >> come on now. >> great for the headlines,

about the twitter hearings yesterday. >> we're in it for the headlines. okay. president joe biden took his populist message to wisconsin yesterday, the first stop on his administration's 20-state, 30-event, post state of the union push to celebrate its accomplishments and outline future plans for economic growth. speaking to members of a labor workers union at a training center in the village of deer forest. the president called out republican lawmakers who booed him during his state of the union address when he highlighted how some of them want to cut social security and medicare. >> they seemed shocked when i raised the plans of some of their members and their caucus to cut social security. marjorie taylor greene and others stood up and said, "liar, liar." reminds me of "liar, liar, house on fire." you have a senator named ron

johnson. >> [ crowd booing ] >> ron johnson on social security and medicare, quote, we should transfer everything so we have to consider everything every year. come on, man. and then we found, you know, there was a senator named mike lee who was also yelling, you know, "liar, liar, house on fire" kind of stuff last night. well, i didn't even know this, but they played a video showing him. when i said -- i didn't say the whole part. i said, leading republicans want to cut social security and medicare. and so they played last night something i didn't even know existed. a video of him saying, "i'm here right now to tell you, one thing you've probably never heard there a politician, it'll be my

objection to phase out social security, pull it up, get rid of it." then he added, i'm quoting now, medicare and medicaid are the same sort. they need to be pulled up. sounds pretty clear to me. how about you? i'll remind you that rick scott from florida, the guy who ran the u.s. senate campaign, has a plan. i got his brochure right here. has a plan. here's what he says in his plan. let me open it up here. sorry. he says, all federal legislation sunsets every five years. if the law is worth keeping, congress can pass it again. social security and medicare/medicaid. >> wow. >> listen, let me tell you something. >> wow. >> that was not jfk. right? >> i don't care. >> may not have been reagan at

the brandenburg gate. that's politicians 101. >> good politics. >> you calmly go to the union hall and hold up -- never anything more powerful than holding up your opponent's own words. especially after they make fools of themselves the night before and protest. i mean, mike lee, my god, that face. saying he wants to tear it up by the roots. i mean, this is, jonathan lemire -- >> wow, i'm -- >> again, this fits perfectly with what we've all been saying for 40 minutes. republicans are talking about things that nobody cares about, except their most intense, crazed base. joe biden is showing how some republicans want to tear up, by the roots, social security, medicare and medicaid. they just don't have the courage to, the rest of them, say it out

loud. is this what we'll see the next two years? >> a lot of this. i was in wisconsin yesterday. any time a president brings props, that's a win. he was able to show off the republicans' own words. you heard the boos in the hall. wisconsin, a deliberate choice for his first stop post state of the union. arguably the most important swing on the map, smallest margin of victory. white house aides told me the years will look like this. union halls targeting the jobs -- showcasing the jobs he's created, targeting economic poliies to give breathing room for the blue-collar workers, many who don't have the four-year college degree. they're creating programs for those people. they'll talk about isues they feel each and every day. that could out the republicans by name, draw contrasts on things that matter. the resort and junk fees, airline fees, those got some of the biggest cheers in the room

yesterday because people feel those. white house aides say, this is what the next two years will look like, the president on the road delivering these messages. >> like bill clinton, talking about school uniforms which we can sneeze at but matter to a lot of parents at that point. and the biden strategy only worked because republicans took the bait. >> right. >> if republicans hadn't heckled him and hadn't said "liar," it wouldn't have worked with the same force. >> he can count on them. >> we all know how this is going to go now. they took the bait. the next couple days or weeks will be conversations about, well, would you cut social security and medicare? some republicans will say, my party does need to get serious about this and we need to reform social security. we'll get into this perpetual loop. one of the great unforced errors politically looks to be this rick scott plan, which was released last cycle. >> by the way, mitch mcconnell. >> yeah. >> mcconnell was like, this is horrible. we're not going to do any of it. >> no one asked for it. it was rick scott saying, i want to put this out to enhance my

own reputation. biden is going to trot this thing out. he is going to dine on it for the next two years. >> because, gene, it wasn't like he was a back bencher in the house of representatives. by the way, for the record, just for people who watch, we never brought up mtg last year when she was a back bencher. our idea was, you're back bencher, you make a lot of noise. i know something about that. ignore 'em, right? now, these people are moving to the front. >> exactly. >> take a guy like rick scott. he was the most powerful republican senator during the last term for running republican campaigns. he said, we're going to tax everybody. we're going to tax the poor. we're going to tax the middle class. we're going to tax working class. and we're going to get rid of social security and medicare every five years and make people vote on it again. >> it was inexplicable then, why did he come out with this thing that was clearly beyond the pale in terms of american ppolitics?

i keep wondering whether the republican party, writ large, is just going to have to disown this thing at some point. >> it's not working. >> democrats are going to pound them. >> trump came out and said, don't touch the entitlement programs. mccarthy said, don't touch the entitlement programs. but this pamphlet exists and is there. >> here's the problem for kevin mccarthy. he told them, don't scream or yell. don't play into it. mccarthy said, we're not touching social security. we're not touching medicare. mccarthy, over the past couple -- mccarthy goes, he has a respectful meeting with biden. mccarthy is trying to be a mainstream speaker for at least a little while, for all of those people that won in biden districts. and his party, he's -- >> they'll vote him out if he gets too mainstream. >> right. he has crazies that aren't letting him do that. >> president biden, as we said, is headed to florida today to

rick scott's home state. yesterday, senator scott responded to biden through a series of tweets. he admits that his plan calls for all federal legislation to sunset in five years, but he tried to spin it by claiming it was, quote, obviously an idea aimed at dealing with the crazy, new laws our congress has been passing of late. the florida republican wrote, quote, to suggest this means i want to cut social security or medicare is a lie and a dishonest move. >> no. >> this isn't the first time scott has been criticized for his tax plan. fox news grilled him about it last year. >> you recently put out an 11-point plan to rescue america. two of the big points of which are, quote, all americans should pay some income tax to have skin in the game, even if a small amount. currently, over half of americans pay no income tax. it also says, all federal legislation sunsets in five years. if a law is worth keeping, congress can pass it again.

so that would raise taxes on half of americans and potentially sunset programs like medicare, medicaid and social security. why would you propose something like that in an election year? >> sure. that's, of course, the democrat talking points. it's a -- >> no, no, it's in the plan. it's in the plan. >> well, here's -- but here's this thing about reality for a second. >> but, senator, but, senator, hang on. it's not a democratic talking point. it's in the plan. >> also in the plan, it says we ought to, every year, talk about exactly how we're going to fix medicare and social security. >> okay. >> john -- >> susan page. >> the reason rick scott put that out there, to get attention. in that way -- >> he got it. >> -- he's got it. he's got attention. >> from fox news. >> yes, kudos to the interviewer for following up. >> oh, yeah. >> no doubt. and he stayed on it, didn't he? >> yeah.

>> willie, it's in the plan. >> john roberts. he's really good. >> yeah, he is so good. john roberts pushed him hard. mitch mcconnell has a problem with it. when rick scott is saying that people are lying about his plans, he's talking about fox news and the guy that runs the senate caucus for republicans. >> as you mentioned, this is why mitch mcconnell has private and sometimes spilling into public disdain for senator rick scott, because of things like this and this plan. jen, as you watched the last couple days play out, president is now going on this 20-state, 30-event tour. you can see the contours of the next two years, can you not? his message going into the swing states, talking to workers, while some republicans light themselves on fire politically in public. >> right. first of all, there is no better fight for joe biden to be having. that rick scott tweet was a gift to no one else by joe biden. people, you know, supporting or thinking about his re-election campaign.

the other thing about having him out on the trail is, having spent a year and a half working and traveling with him, i have never met a bigger extrovert. he gets energy from being with people. you could see it in the speech the other night. the first part where he was listing data and numbers, navigating through that, it was fine. he was talking a little fast. he got energy when he had that back and forth with the republicans in the room. when he's out on the trail, that's when people see the magic of who he is. it's not actually when he is giving big, formal speeches. it's the interactions on rope lines, the ice cream stops, of which we'll probably do zillions when it is warm out. this is very good he'll be out there. union halls, the event like yesterday's is exactly what people will see. >> i want to follow up. expect to see him in union halls in wisconsin, in michigan, pennsylvania. i mean, we're talking about it off camera. if he nails down those three states, suddenly, the blue wall

that democrats used to brag about is erected again for the democratic presidential candidate. >> they had it for many cycles. trump broke through in 2016. biden got it back in 2020. if there are democratic concerns about florida, if they do feel like that's gone, although the president and his team believe there is a shot, he is going there today, it makes your path narrower. if you can keep those great lake states there, where there's the union presidents, the workers and also they feel like this president has a shot to bring back some of the white working class voters that democrats lost in recent cycles. he'll make the next two years look like yesterday. >> if he is talking about social security, and i'm dead serious, and they're talking about twitter, he gets the white working class back. >> jen psaki and susan page, thank you for being on this morning. we appreciate it. with increased focus on migrant crossings at the southern border, families desperate to enter the u.s. are taking a different and dangerous path to get here. we'll have that new reporting.

plus, florida schools just banned a children's book about a hall of fame baseball player known for his humanitarian efforts. what that's about. >> what? >> ahead on "morning joe."

just look around. this digital age we're living in, it's pretty unbelievable. problem is, not everyone's fully living in it. nobody should have to take a class or fill out a medical form on public wifi with a screen the size of your hand. home internet shouldn't be a luxury. everyone should have it and now a lot more people can. so let's go. the digital age is waiting.

we now have a record number of personnel at the border, arresting human smuggling, seizing 23,000 pounds of fentanyl in the last several months. but american border problems won't be fixed until congress acts. if we don't pass my comprehensive immigration reform, at least pass my plan to provide the equipment and officers to secure the border.

and a pathway to citizenship for dreamers, those on temporary status, farm workers, essential workers. >> president biden. >> calling on congress to pass immigration reform during the state of the union address. that's great. we want to hear the "politico" playbook. your publication. >> really important. >> for the record, i asked not to read this on the air. >> yes, which is exactly why we're asking you. >> representative nancy mace appearing at the washington press club foundation's 77th annual dinner, quote, stole the show, cringing with edgy jokes. here's one of them. >> sam. >> you can do it. >> speaker kevin mccarthy. quote, did you watch kevin mccarthy during the speaker vote? i haven't seen someone assume that many positions to appease crazy republicans since stormy daniels. we'll end there.

>> sam, i can't believe you read that. >> he was told. >> got another one? >> i think we have a commercial. >> this is your own -- >> this is my own publication. >> yes. >> nancy. >> edgy. >> you shouldn't have read that. >> you told me to. >> oh, my goodness gracious. let's bring in julia ainsley. >> jokes. >> new reporting out and some jokes. >> no. >> a little more serious. >> this is serious. hold on, hard turn here. more migrants are crossing the northern border into the u.s. as mexicans fly to canada and head south. i saw, as we take a really hard turn here, i saw the most heartbreaking story in "the new york times" maybe three, four, five months ago, before i think a lot of people were doing this. a single family that had been trapped in snow, snow drifts, froze to death because they thought, oh, maybe we'll get across canada.

just an absolute tragedy. >> i mean, it is incredibly dangerous. the numbers are staggering when i took a look at this. across the southern borderborde 16,000 no 4 -- to 42,000, end of '20 to '21. vermont and new hampshire, they've gone up over 700%. that's where the picture is from. that is a family carrying an 8-month-old baby and 2 -year-old in negative 2 degree temperatures. >> fly to mexico? >> it is legal for them to do that. the visa rules are different. flights are about $350. if you think about families who are paying $5,000 to be smuggled across the northern border, that's not nearly as expensive. >> right. >> they are still paying some smugglers, though. of course, people are cashing in on this. they're paying about $2,000 to be smuggled in that way. oftentimes, they're not prepared for the temperatures. who would be? negative 4 degrees, hypothermia sets in. look how young some of the children are. look where they are. really remote areas.

they're told to keep going. they'll find someone in a car at the other side of the border. border patrol says they're finding a lot of people with hypothermia. the issue here is for mexicans, in particular, it is so hard to cross the border right now. you hear about some other nationalities maybe getting in. but with title 42, the largest nationality that's pushed back into mexico are mexicans. they make up 60% of those rejected. it's a lot easier for them to get in from canada. unfortunately, they're rolling the dice. these conditions are so bad. >> what deterrence exists to prevent them from taking the journey? some has to be communication, how perilous it is, but how do you effectively communicate to these people? >> the border patrol is there, but it is so small compared to the numbers we have on the southern border. you barely fund what happens on the northern border because we don't talk about it as much. there are people who can arrest them and apprehend them and they can be deported. they're running into those same

deterrences they would have on the southern border. you're right, i think this could be a growing trend because it's easier. for those who can make it, the word gets back. we know that people could distort the message. cartels could say, this is the way in now. >> help us understand. let's take a 30,000 foot look at this. we talk about it all the time. you look at numbers. illegal border crossings were at an all-time -- well, a 50-year low when barack obama left office in 2016. crossings across the southern border, they started to spike during the trump era. continued to spike during the biden era. just out of control. what's happening? why? what's happened since trump got into office and now through the first two years of biden that's caused this crush of humanity? >> it's not who is in washington, it's a hemispheric

problem. you have 2.5 million venezuelans living in colombia now. there's so much global displacement. if you look at the failed states within our hemisphere, what's happening in haiti with gangs overthrowing the government.ven natural disasters caused by climate change. you have so many displaced people. policies can tweak the numbers at the southern border. the biden administration put in tough policies in january, and we've seen the numbers -- >> trying to work a deal with mexico. >> exactly. we've seen the numbers come way down at the souther border from december to january. they're at a two-year low at the southern border now, i should point out. what i am told by dhs officials, you can put a band-aid on the problem, but if you don't address the root causes, it is going to keep getting worse. >> go to the other border. >> exactly. keep risking their lives. >> shifting. >> wow. willie, anybody in new york have a question on this or a comment?

>> yeah, sure. julia, i guess the question for a lot of people is, how does this get resolved at this point? so much focus, as you say, is on the southern border. is homeland security viewing this as a problem that deserves, if not equal, at least some attention up on the northern border? >> i will say, it's something i don't think they want to talk about as much. as we started requesting our own ride-alongs, something we do on the southern border all the time, it is something they're trying to deny. they don't want images like this. they don't want reporters going out, seeing what's happening there. so far, that has been denied by a lot of -- for a lot of media organizations. that's frustrating. i don't think they want the attention on this. i think as the numbers rise and this conversation keeps happening, we're going to have to have more access, talking to the migrants and getting there and showing what's going on. that could put pressure for more money. the issue right now is republicans don't want to give the biden administration a dime for any kind of immigration

enforcement. it actually just makes the problem worse. >> great. >> julia, in terms of migrants going to canada or crossing the border, where are they getting the money? i mean, you fly to canada from wherever, mexico city. where are they getting the money? >> often, it's not the poorest of the poor who we see arrive in the united states. it is people who are able to and oftentimes sell everything, get a few thousand dollars even, pay smugglers to take them into the united states. in this case, a plane ticket is about $350 to get to say, from mexico city to toronto or montreal. then they're paying smugglers $1,000 to get them across the border. some ways, it is a cheaper way in than going across the southern border. so it could be that this ends up being a more attractive option, even though it is so dangerous, especially this time of year. >> gene, real quick. >> no, i mean, my question is, whether we will ever talk about

comprehensive immigration reform in this country. i know that's a long answer, or maybe it is a short answer and the answer is no. i don't know. >> maybe it's not. we are so far from where we were politically the last time immigration reform even had a chance of getting through. i don't think you'd find republicans and democrats ever agreeing on what was even proposed, say, eight years ago. >> right. >> it just seems pretty tough right now. maybe a deal on da daca. if it didn't get through the last congress, i don't imagine it would now. >> bring it full circle. the aforementioned nancy mace. you're never going to pass what the republicans in the house want to pass, which is a border security own by itself plan. if it looks at dreamers, looks at comprehensive immigration reform, we have a chance to do that. but republicans in the house, i hope they prove me wrong, right now seem more interested in scoring political points than

actually fixing the problem. >> well done. >> this is an issue where the big package ought to be easier to get done than these little pieces of the package. >> right. >> sorry. briefly, one moment in the trump presidency, he was meeting with the principals around the table. he was like, let's do the big package and he bought into it. people like diane feinstein and others couldn't believe he was embracing it. then they quickly backtracked, of course. >> he said, yeah, do whatever you guys do. >> yeah, yeah. >> but they could actually pass a big deal. really tough border security. take care of dreamers. >> yeah. >> again, as you're saying, julia, you've got to look at it as a holisitc problem and hemispheric problem. if you don't, you're not going to fix it. it is a band-aid. >> homeland security correspondent julia ainsley, thank you for your reporting. great to see you in person. >> great to see you. can i ask jonathan lemire a

question? >> i have another joke, too. this is cleaner. >> last night, she says, i know everyone thinks republicans aren't funny. but if you get a bunch of us together, we can be a real riot. >> okay, no. >> catskills next weekend. >> no. >> check your ticketmaster. >> she did not. >> all right. >> jonathan lemire, let me ask you a question. does the white house understand yet how serious the southern border is, as a humanitarian crisis? there was a real blind spot early on. even their closest allies would admit that. they thought it was sort of, you know, you talk to them and go, oh, that's just republican talking points. no, it's actually been a massive humanitarian crisis. >> yeah, no. the end of last year, they looked back and said, that was one of our missteps of what they thought was a pretty good 2022. they bought some time with the title 42 extension. they were given that gift of a

few more months. they recognize that. they don't see a political appetite for comprehensive immigration reform, but they recognize they need to address it with resources at the border. to julia's point, it is a hemispheric issue. relationships aren't the best between washington and latin american countries. they're a long way from a real long-term solution. four minutes past the top of the hour. let's look at the morning papers. headlines making news across the country. "the rome news" has a feature on vice president kamala harris' trip to georgia. she visited georgia tech's campus yesterday to promote the president's state of the union address. she focused on efforts to combat climate change and touted the $370 billion funding included in the inflation reduction act. the vice president says this will bring in new jobs. >> by the way, just so you know,

mika, rome, georgia. >> i love rome, georgia. >> you know nothing about it. >> you talk about it all the time. >> oh, i guess you do. my mom went to shorter college. >> yes. >> rome, georgia. >> i know. i love rome, georgia. >> you know what they say about rome, georgia? >> oh, no, no. >> wasn't built in a day. >> oh, man. >> you know what? i know nancy mayes. you are no nancy mayes. >> shouldn't have read that. okay. in louisiana, "the town talk" reports 20% of children in the state live in food insecure households. data shows nearly a fifth of kids struggled from 2019 to 2021. last year, the state legislature allocated $2.5 million toward an organization that supports local food banks. in south carolina, a ban on

tiktok on government-issued cell phones. get rid of it, guys. if the governments, local, state and federal are getting rid of it, there's a problem. this comes amid growing security concerns over the chinese-owned app. the measure has bipartisan support. the governors administration has already blocked the video sharing app on devices issued to its staff. >> if you want to hear more about this, you can go to "morning joe's" tiktok account. >> no. and in pennsylvania, "the tribune review" reports on a florida school district that has pulled a book about a pittsburgh pirates legend. >> come on, man. >> the illustrated children's biography of roberto clemente references the racism the baseball player endured. the florida school district says it took the book off the shelves to see if it is, quote, developmentally appropriate. >> mike barnicle -- >> i can't. >> roberto clemente, one of the great heros in baseball history.

one of the great players in baseball history, he died on christmas eve on a mission of mercy. i learned this when i was a young kid. his story is a story that every kid should want to read about. oh, a baseball player in the '50s and '60s and early '70s facd racism? this is a shock to anybody? if this is a shock to anybody, they are unworthy of being on any school board. >> well, there's a couple other school districts in florida that have taken books about not only clemente but hank aaron. the white ball players' books are still up there. something is going on in florida at the school district, propelled, obviously, by the governor of florida who is pushing this kind of thing, in

terms of, you know, let's not have -- let's not teach children 7, 8, 9, 10 years of age about racism. i mean, the common sense aspect of this in terms of what children know and what they don't know, what they ought to know, is just incredible to have the government inflicting itself and removing books like roberto clemente's biography. >> in 2023. >> what planet are we on? >> in 2023, the state of florida is banning books about roberto clemente. >> look at it the other way. we were talking about twitter. every republican is like, oh, you need to be open to all the ideas. you can't suppress anything. then to turn around and suppress clemente's children's book. >> and hank aaron. >> unbelievable. speaking of florida while we're on it, ron desantis is responding to former president trump's latest attack on him. on tuesday, trump reposted a photo twice on his truth social account. appearing to show desantis with

several young women during his brief time as a high schoolteacher more than two decades ago. in his post, trump questioned, without evidence, whether desantis was inappropriate with his female students. at a press conference yesterday, desantis said this when asked about trump's posts. >> i face defamatory stuff every single day i've been governor. that's just the nature of it. i'd also just say this, i spend my time delivering results for the people of florida and fighting against joe biden. that's how i spend my time. [ applause ] i don't spend my time trying to smear other republicans. >> all right. >> willie, what do you think? >> not much of a pushback. that was sort of advertised as

him pushing back against donald trump. he didn't really push back there. he has to figure this out if he wants to run for president, how he'll walk the line. there is truth when donald trump says, i made this guy. if you look at his campaign ads the first time he ran for governor, ron desantis' young children are in make america great again one oonsies, saying he was teaching them to build the red block. how does he run against a guy who helped him so long? >> the brief clip, ron desantis, maybe it was a bad day for him, he doesn't have the common political sense to go back and give trump or anybody else that did what trump did a little tickle with a smile or ron desantis' face. it's just not there. it'll be interesting to see. if he runs over the long haul of a presidential campaign, is he going to be that humorless? >> the thing is, gene, that was a bush league move. here's the deal, you ignore it and laugh it off, right? >> exactly, yeah.

>> which he could have easily done. >> or -- >> go hard. >> knock their head off and make them sorry they ever did it. >> no middle ground. >> brush it off, laugh and mock him and move on. say, come on, let's talk about, you know, a lot more books i want to ban before the end of the -- >> exactly. >> talk about what issues are important to you. or you go for the kill and make sure trump never wants to attack him again. >> joe biden is spending a lot of time laughing at really dumb questions. like he just laughs and walks away. i would think you could consider being asked about -- >> basic move. if you don't have that move, you're not -- i don't know. >> all right. sam stein, eugene robinson, thank you, both, very much. >> sam, any more jokes? >> done for the day. >> good job. >> appreciate it. still ahead, warnings from the battlefield and the pentagon about america's most dangerous

enemies. former acting secretary of defense and army green beret colonel christopher miller joins us with a his book. details about a call with nancy pelosi inside the capitol during the january 6th attack. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. ♪ customize and save. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. with skyrizi 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months, after just 2 doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we have a lot of conversations happening here. i want to know what is going over there, katty kay and jonathan lemire. >> we haven't seen each other for a year and a half. >> top secret documents, have you been to a beach house lately? >> my lawyer advised i should not say right now. >> i'm taking the fifth. >> okay.

>> very good. >> 100 times. >> smart move. >> smart move. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay. columnist and editor for "the washington post," david ignatius join us, as well. as with us, acting secretary of defense under president donald trump, christopher miller. he served in the position immediately following the 2020 election until president biden took office. he is out this week with a new book entitled "soldier secretary: warnings from the battlefield and the pentagon about america's most dangerous enemies." >> we'll get to that in one second. katty, i am curious, though, what was the take on zelenskyy coming to london? >> i mean, look, everybody who met him, it was very staged. sunak met him at the airport. he spoke in the great hall where queen elizabeth laid in state when we were there for the funeral. a lot of pomp and circumstance. he had the meeting with king charles, what i still want to call prince charles. the visit was only announcd two

hours before zelenskyy arrived in london. they tried to keep it under wraps. the big thing was the airplanes. you know, it was the brits who pushed the rest of europe into giving tanks. there's a chance they will get the planes, but probably not in anything like the timeframe. the secretary would know this better than me. but in the timeframe the ukrainians need, especially for the big offensive. it'll take a long time, the training of the pilots, the equipment. it is possible. brits are making the right noise to the ukrainians about it. >> it is interesting. admiral stavridis was on three, four weeks ago, talking about the tanks. he said, tanks are great. they need the jets. oh, this is the next step. they need the air. admiral stavridis said yes. it looks like that's where we're going. >> don't argue with the former -- >> i don't. >> to me, the issue is the

planes for the future defense of ukraine. at some point, this war will end, but how will we prevent russia from starting it all over again? the answer is for ukraine to have a really strong defense. with f-16s and lots of other things that we're only beginning to think about. that's the way that i would think about them. we're not going to be in battle in the next couple months, but they will be down the road a way of deterring russia. >> mr. secretary, should i call you mr. secretary, colonel? >> chris. can i call you joe? >> congressman. i was in congress 30 years ago. it's joe. >> it's chris, please. i always try to be galtarian. i'm from iowa. come on. >> all right. >> good for you. >> that's nice. >> very good. let me ask you this, mr. secretary. i'm from the south, i have to call you mr. secretary. i want to get to the key parts of your book because that's what is going to matter.

a lot of my questions around january 6th had to do with the phone calls. general powell on our show said, where the hell was the national guard? that's what americans were talking about. before january 6th, i want to talk about that time in general. there were a lot of fears. a lot of americans like myself and former secretary of defenses very concerned about the time between the election and january the 20th. take us in there. take us into the pentagon. were we all being a little too hypervigilant? what was going on there? >> first off, finally have the opportunity to speak. before do you know what presentation coins are? >> we do. >> these are my secretary of defense coins. then admiral stavridis comes in

or general mccaffrey, you now outrank them. you give them that coin. >> yeah. >> you guys, if you can sell them on ebay for $3.50. >> i like that. >> david. >> sir. >> this is yours, sir. i have another one that i'd like for you to give to your father, who was just a legend. >> amazing. >> this is going to my dad today. he'll really appreciate this. thank you. >> by the way, let me tell you, when i see general mccaffrey, i just say "sir" and salute. >> i do, too. >> thank you for this. >> general ccaffrey. how am i doing with the flip-flop? i'm new to tv. >> go all over the place. >> mika, joe, my wife and i watched your show since way back when. i had to stop watching the last two years because it was getting a little dramatic. >> i understand. >> but my wife, now you do,

like, eight hours a day, so you're on our tv all the time. bucket list for me to be here. >> dramatic? >> let me say, if we knew you were watching or show every day, we'd be more concerned when you took on the pentagon. >> i knew how my day would go when i was acting secretary of defense. you'd decide how my day was going to go. my wife is here, as you know, and would be, like, what did you do now? >> oh. >> oh, yeah. i was like, oh, man. so i had this thing where i said, why don't they call me? why doesn't joe and mika call me, and then you guys did. so i caught the car. so here i am. i really want to answer these questions. >> by the way, your wind-up is as long and fortuitous as mine. >> i learned from the best, joe. >> it is a four-hour show. >> we got four hours. >> it's content. >> anyway, go through that time.

>> you brought up general mccaffery. he trained me. he was the head of the infantry school when i was a second lieutenant, which is where you go to learn to be an officer. one of the key things you learn there, i know you know this, is you learn about the role of the military in our republic. and the separation of powers. he was a role model for me. so when i show up, you know, i took the job 73 days left. the election has been lost. i'm not an election denier or anything like that. now, all of a sudden, like, this is going to go really well. i was completely committed to drawing down in afghanistan, iraq and somalia. but then you could have never predicted what happened on 1/6. your point, your question, though, is, you know, really, really valid. i was committed. i took an oath to the constitution, not to any single individual or man. that's what all our military --

every single person says. >> this is so important. david will agree, for the rank and file. our men and women who defend this country every day, it's a message that general milley sent out on june 2nd or 3rd. you're doing it here now. it is so important. >> that's why i wrote the book. i got concerned that there's a separation between those that serve and those they serve. there was a miscommunication, especially after 1/6. accusations the military would be misused. i never heard anything about the ballot boxes, the military. that was news to me. >> never got to you. >> what about the secretary of defenses, what was your reaction to it and what do you think led them to -- dick cheney and others fearing it needed to be written at that time? >> when that hit, it was heartbreaking to me.

i'll be brutally honest with you. to see all of them. i understood -- i won't go down the political road. i know this is a political show. i felt they took their fears too seriously. the thing that disappointed me was the thought that the armed forces, the men and women that serve, would somehow violate their oath of allegiance to the constitution. it really bothered me. >> did you pick up the phone and call them? did they talk you? >> it's a great question. i called each. when i took the job, i reached out to each former secretary of defense. i didn't talk to vice president cheney for some reason. couldn't connect. that was my thing, why didn't you pick up the phone and give me a call? >> very fair. david, i'm not knocking them. i'd glad they did it at the time because we were all very concerned about it. again, a phone call goes a long

way. >> there was real tension about whether the president was going to push you to misuse the military. i think that's what the former secretaries were worrying about. i just want to ask you, in that period, we now know that the president, some of his closest aide, were really thinking about how to stay on past the constitutional limits. you may have said that he was defeated, but he wasn't accepting that. i'm just wondering whether there were moments there where you felt on the edge, in terms of protecting our republic, from your commander in chief? >> i'm not giving you political sound bites. i never had any indication that the president would ask me to do anything against my oath or anti-constitutional. >> that never reached you? you never got a call from his people to do anything that made you uncomfortable? >> let's be clear, a lot of

people thought i was a sap taking the job and thought i was going to be a figure head that was going to be manipulated by the administration. you know, i did serve 36 years in uniform. every single president, democrat, republican. then i served 13 months -- >> you had a distinguished combat record, and people knew that. there was a concern that you would be used. some of the aides around you were going to push you in directions you might not want to go. >> that was the biggest concern, david. you're right. some of the aides that trump put around you, did you get any pushback from them? >> absolutely not. never got even a hint of that. remember, i was trained by general mccaffery. >> right. >> so i wasn't going to violate my oath. remember, you know, i was representing the armed forces, not just currently but generations, back to the founding. there was no way i was going to do something like that. >> right. katty. >> when you watched on january

6th, did you not then have any concerns coming out of that day that -- about how far trump could potentially go? having seen what had happened on capitol hill, you didn't -- you sound like you were very calm and -- >> i just never saw any indications on -- i was not in the political side. remember, 25,000 national guard troops on capitol hill right after all that was going on. so the dynamics changed considerably. i never once thought that the president was going to try to stay in power beyond inauguration day. >> so let's talk about january 6th further. those troops went over there late. there was a lot of criticism. >> i completely disagree with you, jonathan. i think that -- but go ahead. i'm sorry. your house, i should let you. i'm sorry. i should not interrupt. >> this is the exchange we want here. >> i do it all the time. go ahead. you can replace me.

>> walk through the timeline. the former president, trump, to this day, says that he said, hey hey, we need a lot of troops. big crowd. i'm taking the steps i need to keep the process in the city safe. clarify what happened. did you get that order? >> the president absolutely said, provide whatever military support is required to protect the demonstrators and protesters that day. some people characterize it as -- >> he said that to you? >> yes, ma'am. >> you were talking to him during the -- >> dates prior. on 1/6, the president gave he all the authority i needed. david, i was a green beret, special operator. i had all the -- i had mission intent, and i didn't need -- i had everything i needed to do what i -- >> you said up until -- you never saw any indication that he wanted to continue his presidency beyond the fact that he lost. now, looking back, do you see that he did? >> no, i don't. i mean, the question you're asking is, like, i saw the 1/6

committee. i participated. i did, what, 8 1/2 hours of testimony. i did 8 hours at the house, 8 hours at the senate. i never once felt that -- there was a political factor here that you guys know more about than i'll ever know. >> i'm talking about donald trump wanting to stay on beyond the end of his presidency. bausz he lost. >> looking back, with all the information that is available to us, that he was trying to continue his presidency beyond his duration. he lost. he was trying to stay in power. do you see that now? >> do i see that now? i see a lot of accusations. he's been impeached. we had the 1/6 committee thing. i'm still open minded. i sound like i'm spinning, and you're looking at me, i know, like -- >> there's a lot of evidence. >> he even says it now.

>> i'm still learning, and that's all right. i got haranged when i was up in the house oversight committee. here's the question i want to answer that i don't think has been answered. was the president involved in the conspiracy directly? it's kind of the watergate thing, you know? was he directly involved or have a lot of hangers on, crazy people? >> here's what i'm saying, we may be talking past each other. maybe you're a very effective witness. maybe we're very bad questioners. >> you're not. >> but i think we're talking about a couple of different things here. we have the legal question of, was he the head of that conspiracy? it's what the justice department is trying to figure out right now. and perhaps -- and tell me if i'm wrong -- you're also saying, from your vantage point, you understand that donald trump was fighting in the courts and

fighting other ways to overturn the results of the election, correct? but you, in your position, acting secretary of defense, never got any inclination that he was going to use the military or use force to stay in power. is this how we're talking past each other? >> thank you for clarifying. i'm so glad i'm with a lawyer. you being the lawyer. that's what i'm trying to describe. very ineffective, obviously, and i apologize for that. >> those looks she gives me all the time. what do you want for dinner? >> exactly what i'm trying to say. let's let it play out in the court of law. i'm totally good with that. >> now, let me ask you -- >> that was the setup, joe. that was good. >> no, we're asking about these generalities. now, i'm going to ask you what colin powell asked. i think this is extraordinarily

important for our viewers to hear, to have a better understanding of the decisions you make. you just said you had all the power you needed to deploy the forces on january the 6th. when mika and i were watching it, when general powell was watching it, when i'm sure everybody at this table was watching it, we saw the riots go on for a couple hours, we were all asking the same thing. where the hell is the national guard? where the hell are the troops? you've already told jonathan you didn't think you waited too long. please explain to us your thoughts and why you delayed past the time when most of us were -- we became very uncomfortable with the decision making. >> so i think what we found from -- i think one of the best things that came out of the 1/6 hearings was a timeline. for the longest time, we couldn't tell. i see you're showing it on tv. we couldn't -- it's so confusing, and that's the nature

of these things. it's very hard to tell what's going on. about 2:35 was when finally the capitol hill police and leadership made the request to support national guard. >> 2:35? >> you can look it up. i didn't read all 800 pages, only the timeline. >> why didn't the president give you the call? you said he'd already given you the power. >> yes. >> to do this. >> you said that he'd given you the power to have all the troops necessary to protect the demonstrators. was there something there about a difference between protecting the demonstrators and protecting the capitol? >> yes, because the capitol was the legislative branch. it's a separate and co-equal branch. i represented the executive branch, the military. you do not go to capitol hill with the military unless you're invited by congressional leadership. if you do anything different, that's called a military coup. i was really, really concerned about that. if i would have put additional

troops up on capitol hill that morning, i think you guys would have been probably losing your minds, that there was a military coup going on just over here. i wasn't going to be part of that. >> let's stop one second. we're going to carry this out a little bit. david, i'd love your input here, as well as yours, jonathan, just because you wrote the book on this. david, you follow this very closely. let's go back, again, just for our viewers. we're not giving him the benefit of the doubt because he gave us a nice pin here. we're doing it because this is actually, when january 6th committee was formed, this is what i wanted to know about the most. we're so glad you're here. david, let's talk about the shock of june 1st. let's talk about the troops that were brought in, and people like us rightly complaining about the national guard coming into the city. how frightening that was. we have the mayor of washington,

d.c., saying she did not need, did not want the national guard in her city. first of all, this is the backdrop before we continue the questions. >> secretary miller, i have wondered whether you were fighting the last war on january 6th. you were still fighting the january 1 war, where it'd become over militarized. >> june 1, 2020. >> it was over militarized, troops in the streets. general milley was really upset, thought he made a terrible mistake. secretary esper said pretty much the same thing. so when it comes to january 6th, you're reluctant to have this military presence. so, you know, no shields, no military formations.

you've kind of defended that. this wasn't our job. and i'm wondering whether, as you look back, that's a fair statement, you were fighting where you didn't want to over militarize. in the end, my gosh, our capitol got overrun. >> right. >> you know, that can't have been the right outcome. >> right. >> i understand how you got there, but it wasn't the right outcome. >> first off, david, it wasn't a war. the armed forces of the united states don't fight their fellow citizens, except during the civil war. we weren't close to that. that's the hyperbole that bothers me with a lot of these conversations. it wasn't a war. it was -- these people were exercising their constitutional right. i was absolutely concerned about misutilization of the national guard. remember, you live in the city, some of you do. the national guard was flying helicopters down the streets to harass rightfully constitution demonstrators. i was worried about

misutilization of the national guard. it was a hyperpartisan environment. there was no way i was going to force the armed forces into this political fray beyond what they already were. i understand what you're saying. i understand the questions. i thank you for letting me have my piece finally, to say these things. i was horribly concerned that it was going to be overly militarized. i wasn't going to be party do that. >> by the way, david, i want to follow up with you. i'm not carrying your water here because i wish you'd sent the troops in. but, david, you know, we know, i was on the armed services committee, generals, we know military people, especially when you get into this realm, are extraordinarily cautious. after june the 1st, we can understand why they'd be extraordinarily cautious, given the history of the national guard going out against their own people. >> so i -- certainly, general milley, the secretary who had overall responsibility for this were concerned about too much of

a military look. >> i signed the orders. >> as that day progresses and you have just crazy people storming the capitol, banging through windows, you know, brutally attacking -- >> cops, yeah. >> just scenes that are etched in our memories. you're in the pentagon. you're watching this. what are you thinking? >> i knew that the military was going to -- in the preparation for all of this, the david, on those calls with the police -- >> you're talking about the d.c. police? >> d.c. police. i got ultimate respect for chief conte. he did all hands on deck that day. he took people out of the hospital and said, you're standing on the corner this day. he did the right thing. >> but as you watched that, you knew that had -- >> oh, i knew -- >> they couldn't handle it. >> law enforcement said they could handle up to a million demonstrators. it was very clear to me in those conversations. there was a thought bubble going off about, like, they're talking

politically nice, but the thought bubble was, keep the dog gone military off the street. we know how to do this. 10,000 people, as you recall -- >> again, which is something the mayor of washington, d.c., said the morning of january 6th to us. go ahead. >> 10,000 cops in the street. that's a late infantry division. recall in panama, we took noriega out with 10,000 people. i think they can control washington, d.c. it is not the role of the armed forces. this is the key thing i keep harping on. it's my calling until the day i die, the armed forces should never be used for domestic law enforcement until civil disorder has broken out. your question now is, what happened on capitol hill? i don't know. do we still know how many cops were up there? i wish, if i could do it all again, absolutely, it would have been great if the calvary would have rolled in and we would have saved the day. you know, when i step back now, i have a different impression now, having two plus years to think about this. i am so grateful and i'm so

satisfied that our soldiers and airmen in this case were not fighting american citizens in this. that's what we have cops for. we only use -- people don't join the military to fight their own citizens. i'm so -- it was a tragedy. it was a horrible day for america. i'm not going to argue any of that. >> right. let me say this again, i just want anybody who is watching to understand, i believe the national guard should have gone up earlier. but mika and i have had private conversations that i'll just say now publicly. if that had happened, and if the images that we had were of our military beating up americans at the capitol, the last two years would have been radically different. i'm not saying, you know, it would have been better, not saying it would have been worse. >> i thought we were getting set up to do that, by the way. i thought the opposition that day was setting up a boston massacre moment. that was my assessment in the intelligence, which was pretty weak. >> jonathan, you wrote the book

on january 6th. fill in gaps before we go to new york. >> certainly, as you know, there were calls from congressional leadership. eventually the vice president said, we need the national guard. >> already been activated, 11:04. got the request -- sorry, at 3:04. got the request at 1500, 3:00 p.m. >> is that when the vice president called? >> he called way later. secretary mccarthy came in with the request for additional support. i already made the decision we were going to activate. this isn't a bureaucratic thing, you have to let the process move. >> so 3:04. who made that request that got you guys moving? >> 3:00, secretary mccarthy and general, the army chief of staff, said, here it is, we have the request. >> from whom? >> from the mayor of washington, d.c. >> oh, okay. >> did you ever hear from president trump that day? >> no, didn't need to. >> okay. in that moment, after watching

his action or inaction that day, there were other concerns, david knows this well, voices in the military, that president trump was still in office for two more weeks. he might use the military and call for some sort of strike or, you know, overseas or potentially deploy -- ask to give you some order at home. did you share that concern? >> no, not in the least. i just -- >> why not? >> i thought it was political bluster and hyperbole. i knew that -- i was very confident, based on my experiences with the president's decision making and national security and foreign policy, we'd been through a couple repetitions by this point, i wasn't concerned at all. >> you didn't think that he might invoke the insurrection act? talked about it. >> no. because i had been told that he was -- wasn't going to invoke the insurrection. >> who told you that? >> i heard that from one of his people, johnny --

>> on that day? >> a couple days prior. i wasn't concerned, just telling ya. >> okay. i guess the -- >> but every secretary of defense preceding you was concerned. >> just watching him and knowing him, how could you not be? he is very unpredictable. he says he is going to do certain things, and people have learned over time to believe him. you know, you look at different events, starting at charlottesville, you didn't have these concerns? >> dealing with foreign policy and national security decisions, all of my experiences and interaction with the president and his decision making, i was very comfortable with that. if i wasn't, i would have left. i mean, that's how it works. >>let us go to new york. mike barnicle is going to ask you a question on that camera. >> colonel miller, thank you for being here. thank you for your over three decades of service, during which you earned a lifelong goal, combat infantry badge. there's a lot in this book. i read it last night. i'd like to ask you about a

couple things specifically. one, there's a meeting in the situation room you're having, and general mark milley, chairman of the joint chiefs is there, along with general frank mckenzie, united states marine corps, ran afghanistan, toward the conclusion of our involvement in afghanistan. you say about them, quote, they were either lying or were possibly incompetent, unquote, in their reaction to specific events during that meeting. you describe donald trump during the baghdadi situation, when baghdadi was killed, as, quote, he was the definition of courageous, presidential decision making. back to general mckenzie and general milley, you indicate you had a back and forth with them. they were involved in a turf war, as you explained it. you describe it as, quote, a petty turf war. the only kind of war they were actually good at winning. my question to you is, i didn't

see anything in the book that i read -- and i might have missed it -- where you get to the point where your boss, donald j. trump, interfered actively in the transfer of legally constitutional transfer of power. why is that? >> mike, first off, it's the most important story that's in the book -- or is not in the book was when i was going down the linway with my pregnant wife to go to mass general so she could deliver our child. of course, that was christmas eve, the day after christmas, the 26th, 0200 in the morning. i know you're a big fan of marblehead football. thanks for supporting everybody up this. your question, though, and i'm serious, thanks for, you know, the question and being a part of that. so the question is, why didn't i call out president trump for being extra constitutional or

trying to overthrow the government? >> yes. >> very clear. >> you're critical of a lot of people but never of donald trump. >> yeah, i've been very clear in previous testimony and in public statements that i think his activities on the 6th and with this -- with the transfer of power were not helpful. i sound like i'm tap dancing know, i know, but it's, like, let the courts figure it out. impeached the guy. we had the 1/6 and they referred charges. let's see this out. you guys bring up the questions about the other secretaries of defense and all these things. i'm like, yeah, let's, you know -- decision making and leadership, let's get as much information as we can. we still are waiting for more information. court's out for me. you can criticize me. >> the other -- just following on mike's quotes from your book, it is unusual to hear a secretary of defense criticize

uniformed military leadership in the way i just heard you criticize them. you know, the only battle that millie and mackenzie, who officers who fought these terrible wars, as you did for so many years, you know, the only wars they were good at winning were bureaucratic. that's pretty nasty. >> yeah, david, i'll tell you what. i still am a little bitter, and i'll be bitter until the day i die, at what happened with the end of the war in afghanistan. leadership matters. decisions matter. they are responsible for plotting strategy and moving strategy forward. the decisions that were made from way back in afghanistan were wrong and incorrect. >> in what way? >> well, we fought the war 19 years, one year after a time. >> right. >> here's my thing. i was raised that accountability is important. that's what i'm trying to say in the book. you know, i had a kid who dog

gone messed up a supply request on a machine gun. machine gun existed. it was a paperwork problem. we kicked him out of the military. you can lose a war -- >> losing a war, though, donald trump was the one that kept pushing the military to get out of afghanistan. they refused. donald trump wanted to meet the taliban at camp david on september 11th. i mean, donald trump was pushing harder than hell to get us out of afghanistan. the generals pushed back on him, right? >> i was totally about getting out of afghanistan. every veteran i talked to and serving service member said it's time to leave. but leave. the plan was there was a plan which was to leave a small counter terrorism foot print there to continue to monitor al qaeda. >> that's the approach that general mckenzie and general

milley advocated. >> i lived this for 19 years. finally my dumb you know what is in the seat. i have the information i needed at that point. i live this. been at the white house for a while as a civil servant. we had a good plan. david, we spent $20 billion a year on special operations. we know how to do this. my point, mike, is that they knew better. if anybody served any time in afghanistan they knew if we pulled the support like that it would come undone. >> there was a timeline? >> the one thing i really felt strongly and so funny. i felt we -- one of the things we did good is left a decent plan. plenty of trade space for the new administration on afghanistan. we didn't go to zero. the president said go to 2,500.

i talked to the ground forces commander. remember? those are the people that matter. can we do this? we can handle 2,500. >> okay. final question to our january 6th author? >> expert. >> what now? do you feel like donald trump is running again. would you be comfortable? >> the key point is it is time for a generational change and we have great, great people ready to step forward and be in the arena. one of the key things that both everies me is when we attack public servants who will serve? we need really good people to serve. what concerns me is the social media landscape. what concerns me is destroy the

seed corn like that. >> you seem to want to hold everybody else accountable. >> i'm responsible for everything that did and did not happen in my service. >> i think the point -- >> you have talked about how important it is to hold people accountable but don't seem to be holding donald trump accountable. >> let's let the courts figure it out. given the evidence from the investigations. >> i do have feelings about it. i was really hoping that the 1/6 committee would be like a 9/11 committee style thing to learn lessons and transfer them to the next generation. i don't think that happened. >> why not? >> i mean, the final thing was that mash-up of all the video. i'm part of that. it's all right. it seemed like a publicity release as opposed to an accurate factual thing. i'm not defending -- if there's

illegal conduct, i'm fine. hold responsible. i don't really know what you're asking. what do you want me to do? >> you don't have views on how the president conducted himself? >> i've been extremely clear where i stand on that. >> okay. all right. yeah. alex keeps talking to me. we disagree with you on a lot of things. we at the same time are grateful that you have come here and answered the questions. we greatly appreciate it. and love to have you back. >> i know we got to go off the air and pay bills but veterans rights is a huge issue right now. i just hope that people will recognize that. i represent check a vet. a great warrant officer, it is an organic thing. anything to do to help, you

know, address this really horrible tragedy. >> thank you for that. "soldier secretary." former acting secretary of defense christopher miller, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. still ahead, ukrainian president wraps up a tour of europe including a visit with king charles as we pushes for more military aid. nato's secretary-general stoltenberg joins us next to weigh-in on the assistance to help the war-torn country and james carville joins us with his thoughts on president biden's state of the union address. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans

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if putin wins, it would be a tragedy for ukraine. but it will also be dangerous for all of us. it will send a clear message not just to putin but also to other authoritarian regimes that when they use force they can achieve their goals. that will make the world more dangerous and all of us more vulnerable. >> that was nato secretary-general stoltenberg yesterday in washington d.c. reminding the world what's at stake in europe's land war. something he's done from the very beginning. this time speaking at a press conference alongside secretary of state aptny blinken. stoltenberg is in d.c. to discuss assistance to ukraine with top national security

officials and he joins us now in the studio. it is an honor to have you here and democratic senator chris coons of delaware. it is also an honor to have you here. thank you both for joining us this morning. >> what does ukraine need? >> they need more weapons. they are receiving more weapons. also advanced weapons. air defense systems. battle tanks. fighting vehicles. in addition we need to ensure that the systems work as they should and need ammunition, artillery they have received. spare parts. >> we have heard a need to move to more western style weapons? >> we need to help them and we work on that on the transition from soviet era equipment to

nato equipment and nato doctrines and standards. they have a lot of old weapons. >> out of time. >> we need to switch from one system to another in the midst of a war. >> talk about the extraordinary moment that nato is passing through right now and we hear finland may get in. sweden may not. we heard conflicting messages from erdogan. >> i think both will be full members of the alliance. tush i can made a historic decision to invite them. and so far 28 out of 30 allies rectified in the national parliaments. and this is the quickest ascension process in nato's

modern history. >> david? >> if turkey doesn't move to the final step if nato just go ahead? you said they are basically there. will you go forward so they are a part of the alliance? >> they are part of the alliance because as soon as the ascension protocols there's an invitee process. they are participating in meetings. they are more and more integrated into the structures. nato increased the presence in that part of europe. >> it is already happening? >> it is. but it is important to finalize the process with the parliaments. >> one more question.

president biden yesterday said something that was striking which was basically russia has lost this war. i'm wondering whether you share that view that for the tough fighting that's ahead it is impossible for russia to win. do you believe that? >> president putin made a few dangerous strategic mistakes invading ukraine. one is a total underestimate ukraine. and then the other big mistake is underestimate nato. the commitment to support ukraine. his plan was to take ukraine within days and now lost most of the territory he was able to occupy in the first days and allies continue to support ukraine. >> can we throw it forward? there's american leadership and europe has been really galvanized by american leadership in terms of

supporting ukraine. everyone says this is a critical year and things gone better than people expected for ukraine up until now. russia gains depleting the ukrainian forces, western morale and ability to continue supporting the ukrainians in the way they have been. actually if you look at the course of the next year this could be a good year for russia. it has the troops now. massing on the eastern sides. the chaotic conscription effort seemed to produce something. are you concerned? >> putin had to go to prisons to get the next round of his troops so it is important to recognize and celebrate. we have come through two tests. they bombed the infrastructure trying to plunge them into the

dark and cold. cut off the water and instead the will of the ukrainian people to continue fighting continues stronger than ever. he cut off energy supplies to western europe assuming that would break the alliance. we are stronger than before. i think this is president biden's strongest chapter of strong two years of leadership. the level of investment in nato defense and support of ukraine. this is a tough year. this is when russia's massive size and style of throwing men into the front lines, into the meat grinder, punishing artillery attacks. we have to be determined. for putin to win this year, to succeed in crushing ukrainian and nato resolve woulds shape this century.

this is the front lines of freedom and the united states has a critical role to play not for ukraine and europe but for the world. >> you talked about the nato allies, partnering shouldering to shoulder. how are your republican colleagues? are the republicans still with the president? do they still believe like you and i believe, like i think all of us around the table believe that ukraine is the front line of freedom and shapes -- >> the world. >> the world looking at this century. >> senator mcconnell is clear and forceful after this. after zelenskyy's speech he gave remarks that were clear about how critical this fight is. there are some voices at the right and left margins in the house saying why so much money?

i do think we have to demonstrate more and thorough transparency. the embassy knows that. the militaries know that. >> you feel confident the funding will go there? >> we provided $45 billion in appropriations last year to ensure economic and military support will continue into this year and i believe the american people will hold strong in supporting ukraine. >> you know president biden from delaware as well as anybody in the congress. i want to ask you thought last night watching the state of the union. is this man getting ready to run for president? >> he had a great night. it was not just engaging. it was fun. he had moments where as his

heckling opponents engaged them. i think there were a couple moments where the heckling brought us dangerously close to prime minister's questioning time which is really not the role of the american congress. he had a lot of good news to deliver to the american people about what's been done and delivered to strengthen america. i hope he will run for re-election. i intend to support him. >> if he asked you should i run again what would you say? >> absolutely yes. >> of course. >> let me ask you about the view of america from europe and also our nato allies. sometimes we will -- whether it's david or katty, we hear

leaders say away from cameras, yeah, america is here now. will you be here two or three years from now? donald trump didn't think much of nato. do you have a sense of confidence that the united states of america is going to be a reliable ally over the next 20 years? >> yes. i have seen that clearly demonstrated that in the war in ukraine. seeing strong support for ukraine from the united states. but also seen how important it is that north america stand together. and that's of course important for europe and i believe for the united states. it is something the united states has that no other major power has, that is 30 friends

and allies. if you are concerned about the size and strength of china it is a great advantage to have 30 friends in nato. nato is 50% of the word's economic might of global gdp and 50% of the world's military might. in the dangerous unpredictable world it is more important to have friends and allies. >> one more member who seems to constantly get kicked around. sometimes from the ukrainians and other allies but germany. obviously they have a horrific weight of history hanging over them. and i personally think they made some pretty bold moves over the last year. very positive moves. but it seems germany is getting

kicked and a good bit inside and outside of ukraine. is germany doing enough? should germany do enough? should we be grateful germany ahead the moves they have? >> germany has increased the support for ukraine. looking at the total numbers of nato allies, $120 billion in support to ukraine, more than half is coming from europe and canada and germany is a big part of that again. because germany sees the dangers that if president putin wins in ukraine it is not only tragedy for ukraine but dangerous for all of us. that's what i see in asia. southeast asia last week. and they see if president putin

wins in ukraine that sends a message to beijing a use of force is to do what they want. we have to pay for supporting ukraine. >> senator, final word? >> i am grateful for the leadership from the secretary-general. nato might be expanded. that secures the baltic states and the northern front. one outcome will be doubling the border between nato and russia and i think putin cannot be allowed to win and make sure that the ukrainian people have the resources to endouche and win this war. >> thank you so much both of you for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," house republicans aired the grievances against twitter

but the answers likely not what the far right lawmakers wanted. we'll explain that ahead. plus, it is a story that shocked the country. a sex cult at a prominent new york university. the hulu series is giving footage of the people involved. we'll be joined by the director and a survivor. >> a horrifying story. >> we'll be right back. ustomi your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe! saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it! it's actually... whooooa! ok, show-off! help! oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪3, 4♪ only pay for ♪hat you need.

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in the spring of 2019 a new york magazine investigation sent shockwaves across the country with allegations of a sex kultd that began at a college just north of new york city. the magazine's reporting prompted a federal investigation and arrest and the conviction of the cult's leader. a father of one of the school's students. now the victims tell the stories in a series for hulu that premiers today called "stolen

youth." here's a preview. some of the video is disturbing. >> everyone thought the dad was weird. one by one he would get them alone and he's the best thing that happened to me. >> had a big thing about accountability. >> needs to be addressed. >> he would cut up aderall. >> chemous awake. >> using against each other to erode trust. >> i went to the apartment. i had never seen anything like that before. >> feels like a twilight zone. >> i love you! >> i couldn't tell what he wanted out of it. >> i had theories but nothing was as horrible. >> he had i'm building an army. >> being enrolled in this sexual education and where he was my professor.

>> he's been charged with starting a sex cult. >> claudia was an escort. >> my jaw hit the floor. she was giving him millions of dollars. >> i didn't recognize myself. how much worse can it get? >> open the door! >> i love you very much. >> joining is a survivor you saw. felicia and director and producer. thank you both for being here. there's so much to say but you told me a story in the commercial break which is we had the authors of this new york magazine piece on in 2019. we were shocked by the story like everyone else and you were watching that morning where? >> i was watching at the house. i used to sleep on the floor on an air mattress that was broken

and then the -- your show came on and larry's face was blown up. >> up you were at his house? >> at the house -- at scott's house. this house we were staying at after the apartment. >> larry was there? >> i ran and was like you are on tv. >> the leader of this -- i don't know if the sex cult is the right term? >> i wouldn't call it a sex cult. it was more of a web of abuse where he took one person at a time and just like slowly grew the influence and slowly added more people. because there wasn't one thing that he like preached that attracted us to him. it was personal relationships that we all had.

and i met him as the daughter of my brother's girlfriend. the father of my brother's girlfriend. it was individual relationships and then that became extremely abusive. >> mika is here in washington. you told me something about what she said that morning in the interview as you sat in the room. >> she said, girls, just go home. just go home, girls. and -- >> felicia, i remember that. i'm -- i'm so sorry about the abuse that you went through. it's unbelievable how terrible it must have been. did you think to leave when you were watching the segment? what happened? >> i thought how?

how will i get out of here? yeah. but it meant so much to me that you said that. and it really helped me. you know? as things got harder and eventually he got arrested. it stayed with me. so thank you. >> how did you ultimately bring yourself to this point? how did you sort of not only escape the abuse but dealing with the trauma? >> escaping larry came with the fbi thankfully, with the article that came out and then the investigation that ensued. and once larry was gone i finally could breathe. i had him in my face 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. and without a break for ten years. finally once he was gone i was

able to start dealing with my situation, what happened and really coming to terms with all of the abuse. i had a lot of help from therapists and a social worker, lawyers. you know? and then through the series that's -- it was a huge part of how i'm here today. >> we're so glad you are here and safe and with us this time in this room. zach, talk about how you approached the story. it starts with a guy named larry at sarah lawrence college who for reasons i said seem to be unclear allowed to live in the form with the young women there. what happened from there? >> it is really a series of individual personal relationships. larry was a chameleon.

he would find someone, do research on them. understand what their vulnerabilities were. how to approach the situation. for some a father figure, a therapist. in this case it was more of a boyfriend relationship. i think the idea of a cult we think there's this person at the top and a dogma attractive to all and this is a situation larry is gaslighting, pure manipulation, things we think about are akin to a domestic abuse situation. for each individual they had a process of getting involved with larry and then getting out. an important thing to think about is this is a story of

survival and human resiliency. it is why felicia is here. >> did sarah lawrence explain why a grown man, an ex-con allowed to live in a dorm? >> they continue to sort of say that they had no record of him living there at the time. you know? i hope that more comes out and there's a further investigation into that. they basically didn't engage in the request to be interviewed but, you know, i think at that time there was a very liberal policy of guests -- students encouraged to have relationships with people older than them and to be outside of the shell and i

think in that environment without proper checks in place that kind of liberal policy got out of hand. >> we can agree that's insane. we are all for progressive education but to let -- >> beyond crazy. multiple children at colleges in dorms. beyond crazy. >> yes. >> this is a hard question for me to ask and probably no doubt a hard question for you to try to answer. >> go ahead. >> how is it that a mature woman like yourself allows yourself to slowly slide into being a captive? >> that's a great question. it is a question that i'm still asking myself. how this happened. because -- yeah. it is -- looking back now i

would still say -- i would still ask what you are asking. how could it be? but larry's so skilled. you know? like how could he -- how could bernard let him be best man at his wedding? how could gorbachev let himself be led across america by larry? >> what? >> yes. so -- >> you are kidding. >> no. i'm not. there are pictures. there's like letterses. he knows a lot of people in a lot of influential people in a lot of places. lawyers. police officers. like all kinds of people in the military. so, you know, it is -- if he is able to get in with people like that and then he decides to target me -- >> yeah. >> what chance did i have,

really? i won't know better than a former head of the kgb or former police commissioner. >> it is truly one of those examples and you correct me if i'm wrong the characters prey upon people's vulnerabilities. brilliant in their own way. >> yes. >> i think that answers the question to an extent. looking back, what warning -- because there are, you know, this situation is not alone. and i wonder what warning signs you would look for in a person who has the potential to take such advantage of people. >> yeah. i think with larry i even when my brother came to me and asked me, started telling me about

larry and i was like, who is this guy? i really dismissed him. but with as far as -- then he slowly got to me. the warning signs i would say are it's -- he -- i mean, it was really hard with him because he reads people very well and learns what matters to you and presents really well and like a good person until he wants to do something bad to you. but i would say trust, trusting one's instinct is most important thing because i know i felt uncomfortable around him many times and i couldn't place it but i knew something was wrong and dismissed it.

like, he is nice or good. he is doing nice things for people. it is nothing. so i would say that really that's the most important thing. like, trust your instinct. we have them for a reason. >> you have been nominated for an academy award and won emmys. this is different which is a compelling story and dealing with peoples' trauma and personal stories. how did you approach this as a filmmaker? >> danielle levin who is a source for the article and student at sarah lawrence it was about understanding this from the survivor's point of view. i think there's such a sort of appetite for true crime and an

appetite amongst the culture for these stories but we have to empathize with these people. how could this happen? i think here you have an instance with people light me. i found myself in these students. i was at a small liberal arts school. similar interests. somebody presenting like larry as a know-it-all to tell me about things i was curious might have been interesting to me. i related to the people in the story. that was my way in. and then became a journey to really kind of understand the complexity of this. how difficult it is when you are a good, trusting person who wants this -- i think larry

preyed on good people. the good in you allowed you to say, well, maybe this is okay and going to work out. the other people seem to enjoy this person. he talks about truth and honesty. i will trust that. that is a hard thing to turn the back on. i think seeing the good in people and using that as a kind of carrot almost to attract them is a most insidious quality. >> before you go he got a 60-year sentence? >> yeah. >> at least some good news there. it is streaming now on hulu. extraordinary. zach and felicia, thank you so much. great to meet you and so glad you are safe. >> thank you. next, parts of ukraine have

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welcome back. house republicans grilled forler twitter employees yesterday on capitol hill to prove that the social media company singled out right wing voices for censorship. in a six-hour hearing the four former employees discussed the banning of a shares of "the new york post" article that made claims of hunter biden. twitter pointed to concerns about hacked material as the reason for blogging the story. they since admitted that decision was a mistake but yesterday the former employees refuted claims that the site

colluded with the biden campaign and fbi to influence the results of the 2020 election. a former employee said yesterday it was actually the trump white house that tried to influence the fwiter content. >> what? >> after the model responded to this attack against her by the then president in 2019. >> you testified about a 2019 tweet about president trump. i think from miss teigen. what was it about? >> would you like me to give the direct quote? >> yes. >> please refuse my language. she referred to donald trump at a [ bleep ]. >> okay. free speech. what happened after? what did the trump house do? >> from my understanding the white house reached out to ask

that the tweet be removed. >> yeah. >> the bosses changed twitter's internal rules. we know about this. >> yeah. uh-huh. >> to accommodate trump's hateful rhetoric against immigrants. >> i would like to show a twitter from former president trump. it says in part quote why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came? >> we made the recommendation for the first time we find donald trump in violation of the twitter policy. >> there's a specific example coming to banned abuse against immigrants as the specifically included the phrase go back to where you came from? >> yes. included in the example. >> you brought this up to the

vice president of trust and safety? >> yes. >> she overrode the assessment? >> yes. >> and something interesting happened after that. a day or two later twitter seemed to have changed the policy? >> yeah. that was removed from the guidance. >> twitter changed the policy after the president violated it in order to potentially accommodate the tweet? >> yes. >> thank you. so much for bias against right wing on twitter. >> it's just -- >> good job. >> so shocking. isn't it? it is the opposite of the republicans said was happening. we saw it happening with twitter. legal for a guy to accuse somebody of murder 12 times but violates the policy? yeah. we are looking into that.

in this case on this racist trope that fascists used they actually stopped letting that be a banned phrase. >> uh-huh. >> because they wanted to change the rules for donald trump. in fact, willie, this entire hearing remind me of the scene in "the other guys" where will ferrell -- >> oh god. >> stay with me. >> it always comes back to will ferrell. >> explains to mark wahlberg after he says that lions will eat tuna how the family of tuna will devise a breathing devices and -- >> are you okay? >> no. i'm just saying. will ferrell goes, that didn't turn out the way you expected,

did it? neither did this hears. republicans made fools of themselves. the new york fbi office of leaks against hillary clinton elected donald trump. they're trying to say the fbi was going after donald trump? same thing here. they keep doing these things that never turn out the way they expect'd will ferrell also said guess what. now we have a taste of lion. we are coming to you. we have turned the tables. we have lost so many people with the reference i. >> exactly! just move on. >> should we recite the movie? as someone inside the room as this was happening, so much for this as conservatives is based

on a "the new york post" tweet but as the congresswoman and democrats exposed yesterday there's a lot going on within twitter that allowed everything running up to january 6. >> i have no more quotes to offer but if you run a local political campaign and ads on television and say something inaccurate. guess what happens. the ads are pulled down. people consume more information from the platforms than any other source of media. think of that danger. as she said they are allowing hate speech, racism. inaccurate information about vaccines and how they can shave lives run rampant on these platforms. to break down the crazy word

salad of yesterday is they are defending the pushing of inaccurate, dangerous information on the platforms that most people receive information from. that's what they are defending. that's the hill they have decided to die on. a live update from turkey where rescue teams race to find survivors of the earthquake. gabe gutierrez joins us from one of the hard hit areas straight ahead on "morning joe." causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

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welcome back. it is three years since global ceos vowed to play a role to fight racism following the murders. however a new report showing us that race and jenner discrimination is still a big

problem in the workplace. here to dwayne maggie mcgrath and huma abadeen. maggie, what does this new report reveal? >> catalyst which studies and promotes female leadership surveilled groups and found that 51% of these women experienced racism at work, discriminatory conduct and comments to outright racial slurs and women with darker skin tones more likely tt treatment at work than are women with lighter skin tones and women who are queer and/or trans are also more likely to experience this racist treatment than are women who are straight

and cis gendered. >> huma, respondents were asked to share examples of their experiences with racism in the workplace. did they talk about how it impacted their ability to grow? >> we heard some jarring studies in this report about what women have had to endure in the workplace, everything from overt racism to slurs. one woman said she was belittled for being from a, quote, unquote, savage culture. another woman was told by a colleague that her box braids were considered unprofessional in the workplace. a third woman reported that a colleague would constantly comment how lucky she was to have light skin and fair hair. and the deputy manager would praise and agree with these comments. racism, this motion of being in

an environment where you are maybe not thought of for a promotion or initiatives in the office. some of women, very troublingly, actually said they explore environments that perhaps there aren't mostly white colleagues or predominantly white colleagues around them. it's really a dismal report when it comes to equality and really puts a lot of responsibility on leadership about how to address this problem. >> let's talk about that, maggie. what are the take-aways for company leaders on how they can better tackle racism? >> they need to be doing a lot more. this report found that nearly 50% of women surveyed said they do not feel senior leaders are displaying alliship.

create a culture that is anti-racist, speak up and say something when you see or witness racist behavior. finally, create a system of accountability. it's not just enough to say it. you have to create a system that actively addresses this behavior when it arises in your workplace. >> these are the types of challenges we're going to be talking about that women face in the workplace at our upcoming 30/50 summit in abu dhabi on the days around international women's day starting march 7th through the 10th. we've already announced an incredible line-up of speakers including, hillary clinton, malala, catherine o'hara, billy gene king and many more. huma, as vice chair of the summit, you have another exciting speaker announcement

today. tell us more. >> today we're very excited to announce that karen wassen will be joining us at the summit. she started a blog in 2016 where she took us into her journey as a new mother as she traveled the world, her love of fashion and design and home decor. it took off. i mean, she really connected with people that now all these years later she has almost 8 million followers on instagram. her whole aura and energy is really contagious. she has a namesake eye wear line. we can't wait to hear what this entrepreneur is going to do next. >> i mentioned bilie jean king. >> 27-year-old zara lauri is the

first emirati figure skater to compete internationally from the middle east overall. she's also the first to compete in a hijab. she actually was docked points on her performance the first time she competed in a hijab. she's been instrumental in changing those rules. zara says that she started figure skating at a late age. she was 12. now she is a ground breaker and role model to women in the region and beyond. i'm so excited to hear her speak. >> next week we're going to have a major announcement as to who else is coming. our star studded line-up will get a lot bigger next week. we'll look forward to having you both for that next week. we gear up for the 30/50 summit,

which focuses on creating cross generational alliances to provide guidance and insights to women at every stage of their career while offering diverse perspectives and rich cultural immersion. for more information on how to register and take part in this life changing event, head over to forbes.com. still ahead on "morning joe," democratic strategist james carville joins us with president biden's populist message coming out of the state of the union address. plus, at least three americans are among the more than 17,000 people dead after the massive earthquake that devastated parts of turkey and syria on monday. we'll get a live report. also ahead, the latest from the war in eastern europe as russia prepares to launch a new offensive in ukraine. we'll speak with the u.k.'s security minister following ukrainian president zelenskyy's visit to london asking for

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instead of letting this trivial pursuit go, my colleagues have tried to whip up a faux scandal about this two-day lapse in their ability to spread hunter biden propaganda on a private platform. twitter is a private media company. in america, private media companies can decide what to publish or how to curate content however they want. >> the very first paragraph says hunter biden introduced his father to a top executive at a ukrainian energy firm less than a year before the elder biden pressured government officials in ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating the company. that is false. 100% false. >> is the gentleman sure about

that? >> yes. in fact, i am sure about that. as the lead counsel in the first impeachment investigation, we proved that he was actually fired because he was not prosecuting corruption. >> democrats on the house oversight committee giving republicans a run for their money yesterday in a hearing republicans had said would prove twitter singled out right wing voices for censorship. do you think they singled out right wing voices? >> just the opposite. again, this is going back to the other guy's clip. this did not turn out the way republicans expected it to turn out. >> not at all. >> i'm so glad that you have liberal democrats who have to lecture supposedly conservative republicans about the free marketplace. they keep freaking out saying, marjorie taylor greene says laws were broken because she didn't have access to her twitter

account. >> they're very obsessed with their own twitter accounts. >> that's like when people start whining about elon musk. if you don't like it, get off the platform. again, it's a private company. this is something that, for some reason, republicans can't figure it out, that this is a private company. and, secondly, very personal to us, we saw time and time again where people running twitter during the age of trump were scared to death of donald trump and they broke one rule after another rule to protect donald trump. >> i mean, this is not new, right? there's criticism, if you will, from democrats about how facebook, for example, concessions they had made for the trump campaign and the trump administration. to be clear, democrats and republicans, everybody complains to the social media companies.

but your point that twitter is a private company is an important one that i don't think we have really unpacked. what happens when we have ceded our public discourse to private companies that have no oversight or responsibility to tell the truth. twitter is a private company. elon musk can do whatever he wanted with the platform. that doesn't make it right. it just makes it real. >> there's legislation that could be passed. >> legislation would hold twitter and social media to the same rules that every other company in america is held to. >> in the end, witnesses confirmed it was the trump white house that tried to influence. >> a tweet that was about

president trump from miss teigen. what was the tweet about? >> would you like me to give the direct quote? >> yeah. >> please excuse my language. this is a direct quote. chrissy teigen referred to donald trump as a [ bleep ]. >> free speech. what happened after miss teigen posted her tweet? what did the trump white house do? >> from my understanding, the white house reached out to ask that this tweet be removed. >> we have symone sanders townsend. she served as spokesperson for vice president kamala harris. we have jonathan lemire, author "the big lie." eugene daniels joins us and democratic strategist and cohost of the politics war room podcast

james carville wearing his purple and yellow. >> of course. james, this is a gang that just can't shoot straight. it's not even fair, they're so dumb. they had this twitter hearing. then we find out they get people to testify and we're supposed to get this big reveal, and the big reveal is when donald trump tweets something out, they literally change the rules. for instance, the old fascist screed "go back to where you came from," there was a rule at twitter that you couldn't do that until donald trump did it. they were so desperate to protect donald trump that they changed the rules for him. >> you've got to understand they think that everybody is as stupid as they are. that's just not true. when they have a hearing, they forget that jamie raskin and ben goldman presents something that's foreign to them, a high

iq. you could see that. they just don't understand that. they think everybody is as stupid as them and the people that vote for them. that's just not the case, thank god. >> this has backfired against them. they boo and hiss joe biden when he tells the truth about them. so biden goes to wisconsin and he just starts quoting them chapter and verse. again, they keep walking right into these political traps. >> this is something that moderate republicans were saying before the election, that they were going to be worried about this, that these hearings they were going to be conducting were going to backfire. it was going to make republicans look petty and they don't understand the facts. we saw that with marjorie taylor greene when she talked about one school getting $150 billion of funding, which was also not true. that is what democrats are very

excited about. they're watching as this is happening, because what they get to be is the place where it's normal. we have our hands on the wheel and they're hopeful that as republicans continue to do these hearings and continue to have moments like this, that the american people, independents especially, will say, you know what, maybe the republicans aren't ready for prime time just yet. >> jonathan lemire, biden is loving this. republicans are talking about gas stoves and twitter, and the democrats are talking about protecting social security and medicare. >> this has been in the ethos from the campaign. they keep their eyes on the ball. in this case, they have determined during the midterms that this republican threat to touch social security and medicare is going to be something they can talk about each and every day.

it became obviously a flash point in the state of the union. the president handled it very deftly. as republicans cry foul and say, well, we never said that in the first place, he's got the receipts. he brought the materials with him to wisconsin yesterday. i strongly suspect as he goes to florida today, he will do the same. >> they keep walking into these traps that everybody is saying have been set for them, but they still walk straight into them. >> this is exactly what they promised. if you give us power, we're going to go after hunter biden's laptop, they're going to go after what they call big tech. they're delivering on their campaign promises. as you point out, it's probably not a fair fight in terms of a debate when you have daniel goldman, a former federal prosecutor, jamie raskin, a constitutional law professor against marjorie taylor greene and lauren boebert complaining about tweets were taken down.

president biden travels to florida today as he continues his push on that economic message he delivered a couple of nights ago. kristin welker has more. >> reporter: one day after addressing the nation, president biden was out on the road in the midwest testing his message. >> the backbone of this message is strong. i've said so many times often told democrats and republicans we can actually work together. >> reporter: the president doubling down on his accusation that some republicans want to cut medicare and social security, a claim which prompted a backlash during his state of the union address. >> i'm not saying it's the majority of you. >> reporter: with marjorie taylor greene calling him a liar. in wisconsin, mr. biden firing back. >> marjorie taylor greene said liar liar. it reminds me of liar liar house on fire. >> reporter: in an interview with pbs, the president asked about those interruptions during his speech. >> did you expect that kind of

reaction? >> from the folks who did it, i did. the vast majority of republicans weren't that way. you know, there's still a significant element of what i call the maga republicans. >> reporter: he also noted that republican senator rick scott had proposed cutting medicare and social security last year. >> he says, all federal legislation sunsets every five years. if a law is worth keeping, congress can pass it again. social security and medicare. >> reporter: close republicans including gop leaders oppose cuts to those programs. scott calling the attacks a dishonest move from a very confused president. house speaker kevin mccarthy also lashing out. >> he tries to use that for a political ploy. >> reporter: the president also speaking out about the classified documents controversy in that overnight interview. >> the kinds of things they picked up were things from 1974 and stray papers.

there may be something else i don't know. >> reporter: mr. biden aiming to shift blame to those who packed up his office from his time as vice president. >> as they packed up my offices to move them, they didn't do the kind of job that should have been done. >> nbc's kristin welker reporting. james carville, you can see the congressional hearing with republicans about twitter and the president out on the trail, really the shape of a presidential campaign coming into view here, which is that the president is out at union halls talking about jobs and making things in america. he can contrast that, as he did yesterday up there on the stage, with republicans screaming about their tweets being taken down. >> well, there was one part in the piece that was particularly illuminating when president biden read from rick scott's own plan. and rick scott said he's being dishonest. no. he's reading right from that plan. kevin mccarthy said in october

during the election that they were going to force cuts to social security and medicare. they've been doing this forever. of course, these people cannot be this stupid, can they? the answer is yes. they set a trap and they just walk right into it. it's unbelievable. these people, i don't think that could pass gas at a state teacher's college. [ laughter ] >> did he just say that? >> yeah, he did. he's james carville. >> that was a good one. >> again, this is what matters. it's so interesting, leading up to the election that was supposed to be the massive red wave, you had right wing

pro-trump media going, oh, the democrats aren't focusing on the key issues. there was a suggestion that it was inflation and that it was crime and it was the southern border. then a couple days before the election i'm calling around saying, what are your key issues? they're like, you're not going to believe it. we have stuffed mailboxes full of these great ads on transgender athletes. and they kept bragging about it. former nfl player and da da da, all this stuff. i'm just sitting there. of course, the 10-year-old girls in ohio that have to flee the state after being raped. >> if they can afford it. >> the gubernatorial candidates saying a 14-year-old girl being raped by her uncle is a perfect example of why we have to force them to have abortions.

you look back, oh wait a second, it's actually the republicans that just can't stick to the issues that matter to americans. >> i think it was true in the midterms, i think it's true now in these house oversight hearings. it has been true in the last two elections. the culture wars have always been the playbook, in my opinion, for the modern day republican party apparatus. where is the tax plan? where is the economic plan? >> i got one for you. where is, 13 years later, where is their plan for health care? oh, we have a better plan than the obamacare plan. we've got our plan and it's coming out next month to replace and make better. >> i think what the republican party has benefitted from is, if

you look at polling, for example, over the course of years, the american people do believe they are better on taxes, the republicans are better on the economy even though there has been no substantial pieces of legislation or plan to substantiate those claims. they just say it, and if you say it enough, people believe it's real. that's why it's important what the president did in the state of the union speech. they are reiterating and enforcing what the president said we have done. he's like, this is what we have done and this is what we want to do. it's very important to meet people in their local communities. i do think there's a lot of brash and bravado when we look at the oversight committee.

the reality is that what the oversight committee could potentially damage the president. i do think there are people in that building that know that. when it comes to the documents, the american people have not parsed out the difference between what donald trump has done, criminal, and what the president did. i think the lack of nuance in some of these things for the american people could potentially be damaging. they have to do what they've been doing, the president out there talking about the things. lest we have so much bravado. >> these red hot social issues, let's just talk about how political pundits like me and others have gotten things wrong

for 25 years. because when you hear time and again, oh, the democratic party is too far left on social issues, take abortion, take guns, it scares people in middle america. well, now we have proof the dog caught the car and it was an ugly sight. 50 years fighting to take away the right to choose for women. they got their wish and it just completely politically blew up in their faces. you look at guns. you can't talk about guns because you're going to lose voters. man, the polls overwhelmingly show support for universal background checks and other things. i think a lot of us got it wrong. southern border, they talk about the southern border every two

years. they lose elections every two years. american voters obviously aren't as scared of these things as republicans think they are. >> if you remember in 1994, president clinton passed an assault weapons ban. we won an election in 1996. you couldn't have assault weapons in this country for ten years. on this trans stuff, the governor of utah is my hero. they passed a law in the utah legislature about trans participaing in high school sports. let the athletic association figure it out. that's not a problem for the legislature. they just keep bringing this cultural stuff up. when you stop to think about it, it makes no sense. the one thing they can do that they promised to do, they promised to produce a budget. let's look at the budget.

>> how do you negotiate with somebody that doesn't give you a number? how do you negotiate with somebody that doesn't show you a budget? oh, we want to cut stuff, but we're not going to tell you what we want to cut. >> right. and the president said i want to negotiate the budget, not the debt extension. they have not and i promise you they will not produce a budget. they said they would, but what difference does that make? let's see a budget and see what you got. that's just the way of the world. >> again, you talk about budgets. that's something that matters. i'm so glad james brought up the utah issue on trans athletes, because it was such a huge deal out there. there was a big explosion. and this republican governor said, come on, we're talking like this is a massive crisis.

republicans are obsessed on this issue. it's 0.003% of the population. the utah governor said, come on, we're talking about four students here. let's show some compassion. let's figure this out and let's not scapegoat them and act like this is a threat to everybody in the state. >> use them as a political weapon. >> four students. >> this nuance doesn't really play in a lot of these politics and also doesn't play in the republican party a lot. you saw sarah huckabee sanders in her response to president biden double down on those cultural issues. all of the lessons they could have learned from the midterms, they have not done that. the republican party and i've talked to folks within the republican party about this aren't concentrating on

expanding the party. because if they were talking less about these cultural issues, they get their base fired up. that's one thing. if you were talking about the economic policies or hitting president biden on inflation and focusing on that, they might see a different outcome. >> if trump had talked economics in 2020 campaign, obsessed on it, focused on it, probably would have won the election. just couldn't do it. these republicans can't do it either. >> james carville, symone sanders townsend, thank you both very much. great conversation. coming up on "morning joe," ukrainian president zelenskyy made surprise visits to britain and france yesterday, where he pleaded for his western allies to provide his country fighter jets. we'll ask the british security minister about that request as well as zelenskyy's meeting with king charles. we're also get a live report from kharkiv, where there is a new fear, children being injured

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the death toll from this week's powerful earthquake in turkey and syria continues to rise, now passing 17,000. at least three american citizens are among those killed in turkey. crews continue to search for survivors while dealing with frigid winter temperatures. turkish president erdogan visited affected areas yet and met with survivors. he defended his country's response amid mounting criticism. he admitted there may have been some problems at the outset but

says the situation now is, quote, under control. let's bring in gabe gutierrez at a tent city for earthquake survivors. what are you seeing there? >> reporter: this is the epicenter of the earthquake. in many ways, it is now the heart of the humanitarian response. you see all the people here lined up for food. this line extends to the edge of the stadium, once again, where a tent camp has been set up,all of these people displaced by the earthquake in a major city here in the southeastern part of turkey. you see them lining up for bread right here. the tents set up by the turkish government agency that is set up here to help these people that are displaced. you see water being handed out

here. just across the street, active search and rescue efforts continue. this is the fourth day. there was one apartment building that collapsed just on the other side of the stadium that the rescue teams just showed up today. there were some bystanders that we saw a mother break down in tears when her son's body had just been found. you can see the magnitude of this disaster. the scale is just unthinkable. this is not just happening in one city here in the southeastern part of turkey. of course, northwestern syria is also heavily affected. more than 300,000 syrians are displaced. president erdogan visited this area just yesterday and promised

a more robust response. the u.n. says an aid convoy was able to cross into northwestern syria just today. if we walk over here, we can see people picking up clothes, trying to keep warm. temperatures are continuing to drop. the sun is setting and it has been a miserable few nights for those displaced residents that are trying to find any shelter they can here. we just spoke with an elderly couple not far from here. they said they were waiting for word on their missing son, that his home had collapsed not too far from here. again, more than 17,000 people are dead across turkey and syria, and we're expecting another long, cold night here. >> that number would rise from here. the people behind you in the camp adding to the millions already displaced by civil war.

turning to the latest on the war in ukraine, where there's another new fear for civilians there, land mines. joining us from kharkiv is raf sanchez. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: as if civilians in eastern ukraine didn't have enough to deal with already, we were at this exact spot here in kharkiv two nights ago when the air raid sirens started going off and we started seeing and hearing explosions across the city, one russian missile landing in a public park, sending pieces of shrapnel like this flying through an area where just hours before families had been gathering. daylight revealing the aftermath of the latest russian strike on kharkiv, a missile hitting a public park in the middle of the night. >> just heard two major explosions here in kharkiv. you can see there's smoke rising from the buildings a couple of

hundred meters away. >> reporter: another missile hitting an industrial facility, the strikes coming just hours before president zelenskyy made a surprise visit to the u.k., only his second trip outside ukraine since russia's invasion began almost one year ago. >> russia will lose! [ applause ] >> and we will know the victory will change the world. >> reporter: zelenskyy addressing britain's parliament and urging nato to give his country fighter jets. >> aircraft for ukraine, wings were freedom. >> reporter: the president also receiving a royal welcome at buckingham palace from king charles. in eastern ukraine, the city relishing its freedom after being liberated by ukrainian forces in september. an investigation by human rights watch finds while russia has

used land mines extensively through the war, ukraine has fired thousands of rockets. >> you make butterfly or petal shaped in interesting colors. >> reporter: 14-year-old maria and six other children were injured when one of them picked up a mine, shrapnel tearing into her foot and leg and slicing her cheek. was it painful? it was unexpected, she says. because of fear, we didn't feel any pain. human rights watch says based on the location, it's likely the kids were hurt by a ukrainian mine. can the use of these mines constitute a war crime? >> certainly. land mines are indiscriminate weapons. they cannot distinguish between

a civilian or a combatant. their use is prohibited under international humanitarian law. >> reporter: maria's generation may still face danger from these weapons long after this war is over. willie, the danger is, those mines can stay active for years, even decades after they're planted. president zelenskyy went from london to paris and brussels making the case for the nato allies to give his country fighter aircraft. in just the last hour or so, zelenskyy's chief of staff put out a cryptic message, saying the issue of long range weapons and fighter jets for ukraine has been resolved, details will be provided a little later. we don't have any more information on that. maybe it's a question you can put to your next guest from the

british government. >> absolutely. raf sanchez covering the war in ukraine for us, thank you so much. joinings now british security minister tom tugendhat. >> thank you so much. any insights on that cryptic message? >> well, if you heard yesterday, the prime minister was talking about training ukrainian pilots. i think this is an incredibly important thing to do, because if we decide to support with aircraft at any point, it would take several months to train pilots and to be able to deploy them. you want to begin the training now. >> talking about president zelenskyy meeting the prime minister and the historic speech.

>> it's a remarkable speech. to see it given in westminster hall, built a thousand years ago by the son of william the conquerer and has hosted all the great state occasions of the united kingdom from the trial of charles i to laying in state of her late majesty queen elizabeth. it's remarkable to see that speech given there. pope john paul and nelson mandela have given speeches there. reminding of the battle we fought and the heroic leadership of churchill was phenomenal. >> seeing images of president zelenskyy walking through 10 downing, so moving when you think about churchill from may of '40 through '45. especially in '40 and '41,

fighting to keep western civilization alive. just seeing zelenskyy there is truly moving. >> what moves us so much about churchill is we know he was on the front line of freedom at a time when europe had succumbed to fascist totalitarian brutality and it looked like freedom was being lost in the world. to see somebody standing up there as the embodiment of that fight for liberty that we now are blessed to enjoy in our countries is hugely moving. to see zelenskyy do that today is a reminder that liberty is under threat around the world, the totalitarian aggression of the russian state and putin's dictatorship. >> i enjoy premier league football and i at times go over to london. in the past when i went there, i was like, what are all these russians doing here?

it seemed that london had become a safe haven -- by the way, my son is a huge chelsea fan, so especially a safe haven for certain oligarchs. but there was a real problem at the start of the war, a lot of people looking to the british government saying are they really going to crack down on all of the russian money that is flowing through london? london's become a safe haven. first of all, i'll ask, how is britain doing? and, secondly, i'll ask you, you have an announcement to make this morning about new sanctions. >> look, i was a parliamentarian for a long time and chaired the foreign affairs committee. one to have first reports i did was entitled moscow's gold about the dirty money and sadly how many open market economies have a problem with this. if you're an open economy, you

have money from around the world and sometimes that money may come from sources that you should be more careful of. the reason i accepted the job to be the security minister was to focus on domestic security. it means economic security and fighting illicit finance. i have to say the work done by the sanctions team under the prime minister has been extremely important. a hundred sanctioned individuals in the u.k. the chelsea football club that you site has been sold and the money will, i hope, soon be going into a foundation that will be supporting reconstruction work. >> now safely in the hands of the los angeles rams owner. let's talk about today, the new sanctions. what are you guys doing? >> look, we've all sadly been facing ransom ware attacks and

far too many of them come out of russia. today we have announced that the u.k. and the united states, again, as allies working incredibly closely together, have sanctioned seven ransom ware individuals. this isn't just about national security. this is about personal security. these ransom ware attacks have attacked hospitals, financial institutions and us. people watching today could have been affected by these ransom ware attackattacks. >> on that note, there has been a sense that russia will lash out in different ways. one might be more cyber attacks or ransom ware attacks, state sponsored or otherwise. how are the british people girding themselves for what

could be a very lengthy fight. the economic fallout from this war may not be going anywhere any time soon. >> i don't know if you saw yesterday the images and the remarkable support for president zelenskyy. this is a whole nation. you can't walk down the street in the u.k. without seeing more ukrainian flags than u.k. flags. it's a remarkable demonstration of national outpouring of support. we understand what it's like to be alone or to feel alone in defense of freedom as the ukrainians have done. we're absolutely with them. it's certainly true there are challenges ahead. there's no hiding it. we know the price of gas has been an issue. actually what the government has been doing in lowering the price of gas for individual homes in the u.k. has been hugely important and looking at our supply chains and making sure we're more resilient is fundamental to the work that we

do as a government and it's really making a difference. >> thank you so much for joining us this morning. we appreciate it. coming up on "morning joe," we'll be joined by san francisco district attorney brook jenkins who won a special election on a platform of cracking down on crime and criminal justice reform. n on crime and criminal justice reform nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. whoa. okay. easy does it. we switched to liberty mutual and saved $652.

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. welcome back. 45 past the hour. a new piece in the bullwark entitled can this d.a. turn san francisco around? it has this to say about our next guest. quote, over the past few years the city has oscillated wildly, electing one of the most left wing prosecutors in the country in 2020, then recalling him

along with a bunch of other local officials last year. now they're trying a different approach and many are hoping that the city's new district attorney, a biracial 41-year-old east bay mom offers a synthesis of crime stopping and criminal justice reform that can be the answer. san francisco district attorney brook jenkins joins us now. good to have you on the show. what do you think you can do differently? and the two-pronged approach that you are taking toward crime? >> thank you for having me. i think as we know, democrats, liberals, progressives want to make sure we're doing everything to make our criminal justice system more fair. but as human beings, we also want to feel safer. what i've tried to offer is the approach i've used over the last eight years as a prosecutor in the courtroom, which is responsible methods of

alternatives to incarceration while still making sure that we have accountability for those that commit crimes. >> one of the things i think is really interesting, striking that balance between criminal justice reform and being pro police, not defunding the police, president biden talked about that a little bit in his state of the union address. that's something that national democrats have been trying to figure out how you strike that balance. is it something that can be expanded to a national movement of how democrats can talk about and legislate these issues? >> absolutely. i believe that we have to push forward as democrats with making sure that the laws that we enact, the legislation that we enact supports a society where we can have order, public safety and emphasize that as part of our platform. simply talking about the fact that we need reform and then doing away with the systems that we need in order to keep us safe

is not going to be sufficient anymore. >> good morning. it's willie geist here. there are a lot of people, as you know very well as a resident around san francisco, who feel like a truly great city san francisco has lost its way in the last couple of years with homelessness, open drug use, property crimes, people just walking into stores and taking whatever they want. what do you need to begin to reverse that idea about where your city is right now? >> right now, i've got to enforce consequences for a a period of time people committing crime here felt there was no threat of being caught and even if they were caught by police, there was no true threat of a consequence. i've had to come in and completely shift that narrative to making sure they understand, yes, there is accountability, there are consequences and work closely with the police

department to ensure we are arresting as many people as we can as this lawlessness continues. we are having to really work together collaboratively to make sure we are moving the ball forward so everybody understands that we're not toleraing this anymore and those committing the crimes understand they probably should think to go do it elsewhere. >> you're done 600 police officers in your department, jobs you need to fill where people look at that job and say they don't even give us the tools to do our job. how do you convince police officers to sign up to correct. we're down almost 600 officers here in san francisco, and i've tried to do my best to go around actually to each of the police officers to tell the rank and file directly that we are now a d.a.'s office that appreciates the work that they do. of course we want them to engage

in proper and appropriate and fair policing, but that when they do when they bring us a case, we will ensure there's appropriate accountability. but some of the things that have been working against the people being interested in becoming police officers are not just d.a.'s who have refused to hold criminals accountable, but also, you know, legislators both at the local and state level making it very difficult for them to do their jobs. and so we just have to make sure that while we work to make systems more fair that we don't do away with the tools that we need in order to keep our public safe completely. >> district attorney jenkins, let's talk for a moment if you would about repeat offenders and judges, perhaps letting them back on the streets much earlier than prosecutors perhaps suggest they should with the sentences. how does that complicate your job? what solutions do you have? >> it's certainly a factor. we've been going in in particular on the fentanyl issue asking that our egregious

fentanyl dealers be held in custody. initially we weren't getting traction with the courts. we've found over time we've had to enhance and hone in on our arguments to make sure they truly understand the dangers these individuals present who are selling one of the most deadly drugs we've ever seen in america. certainly we are always having to make strong arguments to our courts so that they understand the dangers that individuals present who are before them and we will continue to likely face some challenges with having them understand those situations and make rulings that we believe are appropriate but we're going to keep at it. >> san francisco district attorney brook jenkins, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. and still ahead, an alarming new report on former nfl players just days before the league's biggest game. plus, disney's ceo unveils a major restructuring plan and widespread layoffs. we'll have the details for you next on "morning joe."

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new research finds almost 92% of former nfl players studied have signs of cte, a progressive and fatal brain disease associated with repeated traumatic brain injuries. scientists at boston university

studied the brains of 376 players and detected cte in 345 of them. the disease is typically found in people with a history of repetitive head impacts but can only be definitively identified after death. how prevalent the disease is among living and former and current nfl players is unknown. disney is slashing 7,000 jobs from its work force and planning to cut more than $5 billion in costs. 3 billion of those cuts are coming from content excluding sports. the announcement came just moments after disney released its most recent quarterly earnings report that showed revenue grew 8%. okay. so we're going to end the show now with some final thoughts, and you guys were just talking off air about a congresswoman nancy mace who had a few choice words. was this at the press club? >> this was at the washington club, the women's club, and it was -- i was there.

her jokes were really biting. like she was really like taking it to a -- republicans. >> i have one of them. let's show it. here we go. nancy mace. >> i know george santos hoped to deliver tonight's keynote, but organizers, our lovely beautiful organizers wanted someone who could tell a joke but not actually be one. come on, george, you've given republicans a bad name, and that's lauren boebert's job. just kidding, lauren, don't shoot. [ laughter ] >> wow. and those are the ones we can show you, actually. some of them were salty. >> sam stein told one -- >> sam stein read one on the air, we goaded him into it and then said don't do that. >> he's not here anymore. >> he's not here to defend himself, but my gosh. i don't know. >> how'd it play in the room? >> some of the jokes played well, some of them did not. i think in d.c. sometimes we don't laugh that much at things but the santos jokes worked

really well, the marjorie taylor greene jokes where she was actually sitting there. >> hi, i'm right here. >> would you like one of those, she says about marjorie taylor greene, wearing her now infamous coat. there's been a lot of talk about anti-semitism, but since marjorie taylor greene started behaving the rates of -- >> i'm kind of laking it. >> those are real roast jokes not the usual mom and dad jokes you hear in washington. that was a real roast. here's my final thought, mika, you'd be proud of me for restraining myself. the vanderbilt commodores playing at home against tennessee, check this out. this was the last play of the game, down by two points, 4.8 seconds, great drive and kickout, drains the 3 at the buzzer, vanderbilt wins 66-65. they'd lost 11 in a row to

tennessee. the memorial magic is back. great play drawn up by the head coach. it's the best school in the country. it's the most fun city in the country ask you get s.e.c. sports on top of it. >> amazing, this has been quite a show today. i mean, think about it, former nato's sec gen and nancy mace. >> what else could you need? >> you don't need anything else. that does it for us this morning. josé diaz-balart picks up the coverage right now. >> good morning, 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific, i'm josé diaz-balart at nbc headquarters in new york. coming up this hour, as the number of people killed in the devastating earthquakes in turkey and syria rise, we're seeing miracles overnight as rescuers pull several survivors out of the rubble. we're live at the epicenter in turkey. next hour, all