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a source familiar with the matter tells nbc news smith is overseeing the dual probes involving pence's former boss regarding the classified documents trump took with him to mar-a-lago and the january 6th attack on the capitol. we do not know exactly why he has subpoenaed pence and if it is in reference to one or both of these probes but when a former vice president of the united states is subpoenaed, it is a big deal. according to abc news which was the first to report this news, it follows months of negotiations between federal prosecutors and pence's legal team. not surprising, but spokespeople for both the former vice president and the special counsel have declined to comment. joining me now is my colleague and anchor of "the beat," ari melber. peter strzok, former fbi counterintelligence agent, and charles coleman, former prosecutor. ari, i'm going to start with you. it is a big deal, but not a specifically big deal because we don't know exactly what these probes are about. can you give us some context as to, you know, what this means? >> number one, it means a

special counsel jack smith is going up the line. this is very near the top, vice president. we all know, number two. after that, you have donald trump, the former president. they're going up the line to get this information, number one. number two, it means that for whatever reason they have determined they're not getting it easily voluntarily. that doesn't mean anything bad per se, it means either they have a witness who doesn't want to testify in mike pence or they have mike pence's lawyers saying this is a tough one. if it comes out that there's a subpoena, it would make it easier for them. it could be a strategy. number three, "the new york times" is now reporting just moments ago, you and i have been in the newsroom figuring it out as we go, it is related to january 6th. number three, it suggests that special counsel smith really needs to get more information to decide whether to charge other people with a crime. so on a big news night, like this, i think of little dirk, the feds listening, the feds will be listening to mike pence. they will win this battle if he fights it. they will sit him down, put him

underoath and they'll be listening to his answers when he's asked, did donald trump know about the violence? did he coordinate with the militias? did anyone in the white house say to you up until the 6th they they had kind of a plan to do this? you need the hard evidence. if he says yes to those questions, more people could be indicted. >> mike pence, now that we understand this is about january 6th, mike pence is both a witness and the potential victim. we know mike pence was reluctant to get into the car with the secret service agents saying i don't know where you're going to take him. he seems to have understood how much danger he was in. people were chanting to hang him. people brought a noose for that purpose. his participation in certifying the election is what was required, the ceremonial duty he had to accomplish. he's pivotal to january 6th, but not as somebody who necessarily was in on the plot. it feels from the january 6th hearings like people were making

plans about him, but on that day, then trying to pressure him with preordained plans. if you're a prosecutor looking at mike pence, first of all, the fact you have to subpoena him, maybe that means they're going to assert some privilege or whatever, but are you thinking of him as someone to implicate who? some secret service folks. he doesn't seem to have known what was happening to that day. >> you make such a great point because this is intersecting. many people, to your point, saw pence as a potential co-conspirator. and based on the evidence we have, not just what he says which might be self serving, but other evidence, he did not decide to join the conspiracy. that's why he certified on the 6th. that's why we have text messages he might not have known when sent when republicans were literally trying to commit voter fraud and elector fraud on the senate floor, doing it dirty, we have the evidence, and when they brought the fraudulent materials, the wisconsin slate,

his folks said no. they saw him as a co-conspirator potentially but he didn't play along. the secret service plot, again, in that kind of witness interview, they're going to ask him, were you just suspicious, fearful, or did you know? had someone told you there's someone on the team that might try to do your harm? they're already outside. was there an inside plot? there's a big difference between i was being careful and fearful, and no, i had evidence that there were people inside the u.s. government potentially, allegedly, trying to close the circle on the coup plot. >> and charles coleman, let me bring you in on this same point. because mike pence seemed to know something, because he went to the trouble of going to a previous vice president of the united states to ask him if it was legal, if it was feasible in any way for him to participate in saying no to the elector slate that was being presented to him. he did check on that. so he had some knowledge and

some idea that there was thinking inside of trump world that they could somehow stop the certification. so if you're thinking about him as a witness, you know, where do you go on this? because you know, to ari's point, people at least at some point thought of him as a co-conspirator but he winds up being the potential victim. >> i think there are a number of things raised by this subpoena of mike pence. number one, the question becomes what did he know and how early did he know it? all of that information is what jack smith is looking to get and going to be extremely valuable. but i want to make another point i talked about on a number of platforms. when you come for the king, you cannot miss. one of the things about jack smith's investigation is he's going to the very top to try to get as much credible information from people who were in the know in order to be able to try this case eventually. if i'm jack smith, i'm thinking about who is the most credible voice that can give me testimony in front of a jury of someone who would absolutely have known

what trump knew and when he knew it. and you get no better than mike pence. that's one of the things people have to understand. when you're thinking about this case as a prosecutor, you want to have witnesses that are going to be convincing to a jury and going to be super credible. in this case, that does not get any better than pence, the former vice president. it's one of the reasons i think he's going to be an extremely important witness for jack smith and one reason i'm not surprised to see him actually subpoena former vice president mike pence in this case. >> we also can say this separately, trump's former acting deputy department of homeland security secretary chad wolf was interviewed by the justice department in recent weeks. multiple people now interviewed. wolf's former deputy, ken cuccinelli, testified last month before a federal grand jury. lots of people are being pulled in, peter strzok. but if you get to talk to the one closest to the king, mike pence, what do you want to know?

>> well, i think you're absolutely right. this is pretty much the last step before you approach trump. the fact is pence was present in any number of meetings in december and january. and particularly meetings on january 4th and 5th with john eastman where apparently john eastman told the president, was encouraging the fake electors, to set aside counting certain states and to delay and then some question about whether or not that was lawful or not. and trump and the reason that's important is if trump is going to try and claim that he acted on the basis of advice of counsel, you need to know what those discussions were in terms of saying is this lawful, isn't it? the reason we know about all those conversations is because mike pence ran an editorial at the begin of november last year about all of these meetings in advance of his book coming out where he talked about all that. you can't very well go into a grand jury and claim executive privilege when everything you're trying to claim privilege is something you talked about in

your book and in the "wall street journal" three months ago. i think these are absolutely critical discussions that are really going to show not only where pence might have been a victim but also explore those areas where trump might try to use his defenses to any sort of charge. >> and i'll throw this out to any of you but start with you, charles, is there any possibility some sort of, i don't think we have charles' audio, so ari, the ball goes to you. this idea of potentially trying to claim privilege. it doesn't feel like there's any way to do that. a lot of this is publicly known and we just had a january 6th probe that was very thorough that went through a lot of this information. any chance there could be anything that stands in the way of the interview? it's going to happen, has to happen. >> it's going to happen. the vast majority of the material they would want is not going to survive a real privilege review. the vice president, the former vice president, is entitled to the courts. that process could delay it a little. and there may be somewhere in there, little pieces, oh, this question goes to something else and is not a crime and is privileged. it's possible. but for the most part, we're

talking about unlawful orders, demands to commit crimes, demands to do things that are not in any way privileged, if anything, quite the opposite. a judge is going to look at that and say no, you have to tell the truth, as they investigate a crime. i don't think he has a strong leg there. it might be a delay tactic. >> charles, you and i have been similarly skeptical, the idea you can prove, you have said this before, in order to prove that donald trump was part of the entire seditious conspiracy, including the part that involved violence, he would have had to know that the people he was empowering to march to the capitol could commit violence and they would commit violence on his behalf. you have to connect those dots. in your mind, where does pence fit into this investigation of whether or not you could tie trump to the whole thing? because he was not somebody who would have been privy to the idea that violence could be committed because it was going to be committed against him. if it was going to happen, it was going to happen to him, not because he wanted it. >> i think a large part of that is going to be very

circumstantial in terms of being able to establish that. one of the ways i think it could come about is if mike pence is able to confirm who donald trump was in touch with or who donald trump may have spoken to or told him who he spoke to, and then later confirm what those groups or what those persons had talked to him about, whatever level of violence they may have been prepared for. i think it would be indirect. i think it's going to present a very significant evidentiary hurdle if you talk about being at trial, but i think that's one of the pathways that jack smith could use to try to establish what you're talking about. >> i want to know that entire conversation he had with those secret service agents. ari, thank you for allowing me to hold you over into the 7:00 hour. charles coleman, thank you very much. peter is going to stick up because up next on "the reidout," the republican-led weaponization of government committee holds its first hearing and it was just as embarrassing as everyone predicted. "the reidout" continues after this.

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about conspiracies about the deep state. jamie raskin called an a witness noted even the subcommittee's name is nothing more than a psychological projection from the trump supporters in control. >> not because weaponization of the government is its target but because weaponization of the government is its purpose. trump and his obliging sycophantic attorney generals like jeff sessions and william barr repeatedly pressured career prosecutors to gee hard or soft in particular cases always seeking to reward trump's friends or to punish his enemies. if weaponization of the department of justice has any meaning, this is it. the john durham investigation was trying to find wrongdoing by intelligence or law agencies in the mueller agency. it couldn't find anything of substance to it, but barr and durham kept pressing in abusive

ways i hope your subcommittee will investigate. >> of course, jim jordan isn't going to do that, nor will he investigate how trump's weaponization culminated in using the justice department to try to overturn an election. this is nothing more than republicans nursing their own weird incessant self pity and self victimization. their anger that their cultural priorities are not mainstream or that their favorite conspiracies are not believable. it's all designed to turn a government platform into an ax grinding farce. the white house called it out for what it is, there fox news reboot of the house un-american activities committee with a political stunt that weaponizes congress to carry out the priorities of extreme maga republicans in congress. now, with that in mind, republicans invited right wing media favorites fox new talking head and former congresswoman tulsi gabbard, chuck grassley, and ron johnson. if you don't watch fox news, or read breitbart or the daily caller, you would probably have no idea about the maga fever

dream stew that occupies their minds. while most americans are more concerned about things like, i don't know, the price of eggs. which was presented today in a litany of their own personal complaints. slights, and delusions. >> as one example, look at cross fire hurricane. the justice department and the fbi are suffering from a political infection. >> as we sit here today, the danger is that if we choose to reject or challenge whatever those in power declare is the so-called truth, we are accused of being anti-authority. >> the genesis of the impeachment saga has yet to be fully investigated. serious questions regarding instances of unequal application of justice in violation of january 6th defendants' due process rights remain unanswered. >> joining me now is tim miller, writer at large for the bulwark and an msnbc political analyst and peter strzok is back with me. i want to play for you guys the real purpose of this thing, this

committee. and it was spoken by jim jordan, not in front of congress, but rather at cpac last summer. here he is explaining what we're doing here. >> all those things need to be investigated just so you have the truth. plus, that will help frame up the 2024 race when i hope and i think president trump is going to run again, and we need to make sure he wins. >> tim, isn't it what this is about? this is really, it reminds me when kevin mccarthy said, you know the little thing called the benghazi hearings, it's going to make sure hillary clinton is never president of the united states. oops, did i say that in my outside voice? yes, i did. this is literally an attempt to take all the conspiracy theories people believe on 4chan and give them a congressional hearing so they can use it in the election. where am i wrong? what am i missing? >> you're not missing much, joy. i suffered through about three hours of this hearing today, so that's my penance for your viewers. you know, for any past crimes. and i got to tell you, this is

all about the self important delusions of the republicans on this committee. they want to be able to raise money. they want to be able to have little viral video clips that they can play in conservative media to help increase their fame and help increase their visibility among their base. and then i think that the best case scenario, the cherry on top, is one of these subpoenas they're papering the whole federal government with, will turn over something they can use in the 2024 campaign. because they don't have any basis for what they're doing. i think there's the additional element of this, which is the funniest part of it, i guess, is that they just want an airing of the grievances. it's a little festivus. tulsi today was up there, she literally said today that social media and the big tech companies prevented her from doing well in the primary, in the democratic primary. i was like, no, i think running on a tucker carlson platform in

the democratic primary is why you didn't do well. i don't think it was a conspiracy by big tech and the deep state. but i think the political aims is hopefully like the benghazi hearings did with the anthony weiner laptop or excuse me, with the hillary server, that something will come up that they can use politically. >> they want something to stick. and the thing is that the things they believe, their conspiracy theories, are so wild and out there that they can't get legitimate media to pursue them because they're bananas and no one has time for that. they're using their power to play this game. it would be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerous. stacey plaskett was the ranking member on the committee. she's made the point you have people showing up in body armor and ar-15 rifles to field offices. you have a cincinnati field office having that attempt on them. you have people going in and threatening to blow up fbi offices, targeting specific

agents. this is putting people at risk because people who are sitting at home, you know, doom scrolling these things on 4chan or binge watching tucker carlson, they think these things are real. and that there is some sort of war against them being waged by the fbi. and they actually want to hurt people, some of them, not all of them, but some people will get violent. >> i think that's absolutely right. i'm very glad she made that point right at the beginning. the fact of the matter is, i'm sure like tim, i was chuckling, like listening to your great uncle charlie complaining about his sciatica while you're waiting for the turkey to get done cooking. the reality is while the average person will look at this and ait's nonsense, there is a significant part of the population who has lived in this kind of bizarro land where the government is the deep state, where the fbi in particular and other law enforcement agencies are targeting trump, they're going to target them, and you best go get ready and be locked and loaded for 2024.

and unfortunately, all it takes is one tenth of 1% who decides they need to take up arms and as we have seen with attacks on fbi field offices, with threats to judges, this is not some idol supposition. that threat is real. it's occurring, and it's ongoing. and these hearings and the projected next two years of hearings are going to do nothing but fan that flame of the crazy edge who is willing to go out and engage in violence. >> if they wanted to do a legitimate weapon zashz of government hearing, you would have to do something about the january 6th scenario where you had trump's people trying to weaponize the doj, where you had an fbi agent who has now been arrested because he was participating in an attempted plot to set up hillary clinton. you have actual issues that the fbi has had. you know, the intercept story has a story about the fbi having paid a violent felon to infiltrate the racial justice movement in denver. you have issues with the new

york fbi. there are actual things, a senior official who has been charged with aiding a russian oligarch. there are things you could legitimately do oversight over that would matter and make sense, but they're not doing any of that. >> no. that's the absurd part of it. they're accusing people of doing things they themselves have done. hopefully we see out of the senate judiciary committee an actual look into the weaponization of the department of justice, some of the outrageous things bill barr did, not just with john durham, but with rolling back mike flynn and roger stone and all these things that truly did weaponize the department of justice. there's a snowball's chance in hell that that ever happens on the house side, but you're right. the reality is there are legitimate things going on, but this is performance art and tim is absolutely right. it's designed to create a sound bite for tucker, designed to go in an email where they can click a button where 90 cents goes to trump and 10 cents goes to them.

it's performance, boring performance, but the calculation is it works for them. >> the thing is, the irony is, there's a long conversation that folks on the left and african americans have been having about the weaponization of government against vulnerable communities. you can talk about whether it was against the anti-war movement during the early 2000s or against dr. king, against the civil rights movement. there are actual things, but republicans also don't want history, so they don't want to remember any of the real weaponization of government that's happened in in some cases the recent past. i feel like, and you have been inside the republican world, that there's almost an envy of the victimization that communities of color and that marginalized people have faced and that they envy being the victims of persecution. nobody of color wants to be the victims of persecution. this is not something to be envied, but it feels like they envy it. >> boy, you really hit the nail on the head on the psychology of this, joy.

that is this driving element within the republican base right now. they want to be the ones that are put upon. it explains why they lost elections. it explains then why, you know, maybe their kids' politics are different than them or they feel like the country is getting away from them. if they can say, oh, it's this conspiracy that explains why this is happening, and i'm the put upon one, then that undermines the credibility of these complaints that come from people of color. i laugh, viewers of this show, progressives have to feel like they're in the upside down when they hear republicans saying oh, the fbi, that's the home of progressive liberals. the fbi? >> the fbi. >> did you read a book about martin luther king? >> no, tim, they haven't read a book about martin luther king. it's illegal to read books about dr. king in red statsd. they're not allowed to read it because they actually, they're

afraid of history. all they want is what they think is this nobility of being the victims. news flash to the right. ain't none of it like it. didn't want it. everyone would give back the nobility in a heartbeat in order to be treated fairly and equally. and you're against that, too. tim miller and peter strzok, i don't get it. thank you very much. >> still ahead, what is happening? no one is above the law, well except maybe apparently teflon don. how the heck is he still free as a bird? speaking of somebody who wants nobility. cheating his way to golf victories after what appeared to be blatant legal offenses. "the reidout" continues after this.

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after my car accident, ♪ call owondnder whahatmy c cas. eight million ♪ so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. youour cidedentase e woh than insurance offered? call the barnes firm now to find out. yoyou ght t beurprpris we're following another new update in one of the many criminal investigations into donald trump. there are a lot, i know it's hard to keep track of them all. this is in regards to the hush money payments made to porn star stormy daniels. you'll remember michael cohen,

trump's former attorney, went to prison for signing those checks to daniels for keeping quiet during the 2016 campaign about her alleged affair with trump. and trump, although directly implicated in cohen's sentencing memo as individual one, was let off the hook when manhattan district attorney alvin bragg chose not to prosecute after the grand jury wrapped up last year, much to the dismay of many who works on the case, including one of the lead prosecutors, mark pomeranz, who writes in his new book, the office was just weeks away from filing criminal charges against trump at the end of 2020. now, the wheels are once again in motion, as bragg convened a new grand jury to investigate those same allegations against the twice impeached former president. yesterday, michael cohen sat down with prosecutors for the 15th time and said a date for a 16th meeting has already been set. skeptics may look add this and say so what, we have seen this time and time again. trump is investigated for a

crime with a mountain of evident gn him and just when you think he's going to be held accountable, nothing. what might seem like a pretty obvious crime that for you or me would result in jail time, he gets away with scot free, which is what one of my next guests writes about in his new book. pretty common for the rich and powerful, surprise surprise. joining me is michael cohen, former personal attorney to trump, and elie honig, former district attorney for the southern district of new york and author of the new book, untouchable, how powerful people get away with it. i want to start with you, michael. you're going in for a 16th interview. in your mind, what is different now than before? because attorney alvin bragg seemed to be declining this case and now itsver sort of reopened? >> there's very little that is different. it's relatively the same information that alvin bragg is processing on his own. let's not forget that cy vance

ended up leaving. he could have easily brought the case, but then again, alvin bragg would then inherit it. i think cy did the right thing, but alvin bragg needed to get caught up to speed. and i think he felt pressured and so he backed away. and i think what we have to do is give the guy -- we have to give the guy a little room. >> sure. >> everybody is using these metaphors of transportation, aviation. that the plane wasn't ready to take off. well, okay, let's stay on that same theme, that same genre, and what we'll do is say, right now, the plane is taxiing, and we're getting close to the runway. at the end of the day, what's the goal? the destination that you're intending. that destination will be had. >> you know, there are two different cases that i feel like you are intrinsically knowledgeable it. there's this case, these checks, the reimbursement went to you from him. from donald trump himself.

there is no way around it. you were not having an affair with stormy daniels, he was. so that seems so clear. but then the other one was you testified to the fact that he was revaluing, devaluing, and upping the value of his properties. you testified to that under oath before gres that he was doing that. that has resulted in him getting some fines. he was fined for some of that behavior, but do you feel at this point he appears untouchable? >> no. in fact, let's take a look so far what alvin bragg has accomplished. they have already held the trump organization accountable, minor fine, $1.6 million, when you're worth $10 billion if not more, right? then of course, you also have the allen weisselberg matter. we now have the attorney general, our unsinkable tish james, going to take a lot of money off -- out of the trump coffers. let's be real about that one. so he's being held accountable. a lot of people don't realize,

for example, there was a case where they beat up the protesters in front. he paid on that one. now, we don't know how much because it's under gag. but at the end of the day, he is actually held accountable. it's the same myth that gets perpetuated. donald trump, he's untouchable. it's not true. he is touchable, and i do have faith in alvin bragg. i will say this as well. that i was very impressed with mark pomeranz and carrie dunn. after ten sessions with them, three additional when i was otisville, i was very impressed with cy vance's team, and the whole group of them. i'm equally impressed with this group as well. they got up to speed very quickly. they're knowledgeable. they know there's a lot of information that they had to go through. they know the information. and they're preparing. >> that makes me feel good. this book is going to make me feel bad. the reality, how powerful people

get away with it. >> if you look at michael cohen's case, the simple fact that the only person who's ever been held meaningfully accountable in a criminal context is this guy, who is essentially a bagman, a pass through for the checks. is indefensible and outrageous, and in that book, i have reporting from really the flipside of michael's book. michael tells what it was like to be prosecuted for the hush money payments. i have the story of what was happening in my former office, the southern district of new york when they prosecuted michael. there's this interesting moment when it comes to january 2021. trump is leaving office and the southern district of new york has to decide, what do we do? now we can indict him. michael has already been in jail. we know what they decided. they said no. the reasons i think are going to be disturbing to some people. the reasons were not directly related to the evidence. the team felt they did have evidence of trump's involvement. michael said it. i mean, the southern district of new york did not fully credit michael. he disagrees with this, but they

did not take him as a cooperator, but the evidence, they say it in the sentencing memo, he acted for and at the direction of individual one. they were thinking about political concerns. one prosecutor on the team phrased it to me as, quote, prudential concerns with indicting a former president. they also felt at the time trump had done so many other things. this is weeks after january 6th, that by then the hush money scheme had receded in the memory, it was maybe fifth or sixth on the list, so they gave him a pass. that to me is completely unjustified. i think everyone agrees. now, will he remain untouchable? i think the signs are increasingly present he will be indicted by somebody. i think the d.a. in fulton county is the most likely, but indictment is one thing and conviction is very different. every day that passes, i think that task gets more and more difficult for prosecutors. >> i think what makes people disturbed about the system is that it feels like if you -- i mean, trump has been acquitted to a mob boss. if you present violence as a possibility among your

supporters, it's almost inoculative. it lets you get away with more crime because people are so afraid what your people might do as a result. this is jamie raskin, because we were talking about weaponization tonight, one of the topics on the show. this is what jamie raskin had to say about the weaponization of government that relates to you, michael. take a look. >> after cohen was imprisoned for a year and then being transferred out of prison to home confinement during covid-19, barr and the doj intervened to block his transfer because cohen would not immediately accept as a condition of his ankle bracelet home confinement not to engage in first amendment activities, specifically writing and publishing a book about donald trump or saying anything in public on tv or in social media about donald trump. can you think of a more egregious example of weaponizing the department of justice for

nakedly political purposes than imprisoning and putting in solitary confinement the president's own former lawyer, simply pause he wanted to exercise his first amendment rights? >> i'm going to give michael the last word, but elie, that could be the opening of your book. >> you want to talk about weaponization, bill barr should be witness 1-a. that was my first book, actually. nobody has weaponized doj like bill barr. he was dishonest. he used the office for nakedly political purposes, not least of which was throwing michael back in jail for not basically agreeing to be silent on his book. i think it was an outrage and i give michael credit. he's been through a lot, and you want to talk weaponization, get bill barr up there. >> one of the things i want to insure is that this never happens to another american ever again. and i will continue to fight every single day. i will continue to make my voice heard, because i have that platform. so i will use it in order to insure that people like donald

trump, people like bill barr, and the donald trump 2.0s that want to come next time and do the same to people like yourself, you're probably on donald's enemies list. probably you, too, elie. anybody who says something negative will be on his enemies list. i don't want to see this ever happen to anyone ever again. >> yeah. well thank you both for being here. it's a frightening story about power being used against individual americans is the most frightening use. michael and elie, thank you. >> up next, new developments and new allegations involving the former memphis police officers accused of beating tyre nichols to death.

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we're learning more about what happened on the night of january 7th after five officers brutalized tyre nichols. on tuesday, the state released documents from the memphis police department's request to decertify the five former officers charged in nichols' death. the picture that emerges is shocking and deeply troubling but not all that surprising. the documents revealed that the officer who pulled nichols from his car never explained why he was being stopped. we also learned that he admitted to taking photographs of nichols as he laid propped against a police car and sent the photos to other officers and a femal equatance. those are part of a disciplinary

file that may not be used in court when the officers go on trial. haley, along with desmond mills jr., justin smith, and emmitt martin iii were fired and charged with second degree murder. there are two new allegations against some of the same officers. a new federal lawsuit was filed on tuesday accusing them of using excessive force and violating the rights of another man in the same neighborhood. additionally, a local news station spoke with a woman who warned the memphis police officer department about demetrius hallie using aggressive force. joining us is nbc news correspondent antonia hylton where she's been doing brilliant reporting on the beating death of tyre nichols. such an honor to have you here with me. lay this out for me because it feels like this case feels like a lot of things but not a traffic stop. it's interesting to learn definitively there was never a statement, this is why i'm pulling you over. and there are lots of rumor mill

out there, but it feels like a case, from everyone i talked to, it feels like some sort of a personal vendetta. do we have any reporting, flesh this out, what we saw happen. >> i can tell you what the community is talking about, but as of right now, there is no known connection between demetrius haley and tyre nichols. what i can tell you is this is sort of like an onion where every day, every couple days we find out more about these officers' behavior, and all this has fueled a lot of local speculation. so the rumor in the community there has been, demetrius haley must have known tyre nichols. why else take these photos and send them around, not just to the police department, but people who have no affiliation to the department, but the family and their attorney, benjamin crump, they said time and time again, we don't know of any connection. right now, we want people focused on the reforms we're asking for, respect for his

life. if we find out more, we'll let you know, but right now, we don't know any part of that. i would calls people from thinking about this too much as a story where it's about one officer versus tyre. these documents you laid out show a pattern and i'll use a word that's repeated in the documents, deceitful behavior. what we see is not just photos taken of tyre as he's bloodied, slumped over, clearly in ditress taken by an officer. they're also joking around. they don't seem to be affected at all by the violence that's just been perpetrated there. but there's also all these ways in which they lay out what happened after the fact, and continued deceit from that point forward. for example, emmitt martin, the officer who claims, you can hear at one point,example image marti officer who claims >> you can hear one point saying tyre reach for my gun. there's no evidence of that in the video. they lay out the investigators gave him a chance to tell the truth, and that he chose not to. so even after filling out the

forms improperly, than being given a chance to tell the truth again, he chooses not to. other officers of course were involved in the filing of this report. they lay out the way in which they spoke to tyreek, calling him the b word and other extremely demeaning terms. well tyre was very polite, using words like please, and what did i do. he's genuinely asking them questions. so there's a pattern of behavior on the scene and after the fact that is being established here. and whether or not there appears to be a personal connection between any of them, a lot of people in the community want to understand, how do these officers not just get on the police force in memphis, but how do they end up on an elite squad? >> that's right. i mean, the thing that is familiar about this story is that you have this group with a name that sounds scary. scorpion unit. that doesn't sound like it's there to help the community, that has a history that starts to unfold, like in the michael brown case where peeps police are stopping african americans trying to build revenue by giving them fines. you see this pattern. now we're up to 13 officers who

were in some way getting disciplinary action. the shelby county da, you confirmed at, there's going to be an investigation of all the cases they have done in the past. to me this doesn't feel like the thing that happened and the community says oh, this is an isolated thing. when you spoke to people in the community, has this unit been terrorizing folks before? >> well, our colleague dion hampton talked to a man who not only had been terrorized by policed but had an interaction with some of the same officers just three days before what happened to tyre nichols. but also, as i just talked people in the community, because i was there for three weeks, i plenty of time to talk to people informally, in interviews, eating food, running my errands. consistently i heard well, we knew this. not just about this unit, but this city has had a problem with policing for a long time, particularly black residents has had felt disrespected. they have had a knowledge that this violence could come from any officer. i say that because i think a lot of people like to think about this story as just black

versus white, and there's been a lot of, well, why are you complaining about the culture of policing if these officers look like you? people there in memphis say, this isn't really new for us. we have been raising these questions. we've had these concerns. they're grateful that the da, that chief davis of the police department, came forward and talked to reporters. but there's always a question of, well why wasn't this a standard before? because this isn't actually the first incident. the first time someone has died, but there are other men who have not just told our colleagues but other reporters, other papers, very similar patterns of behavior. >> whenever you have a story like this, know that this was just the one where somebody not died. and police forces are operating this way, they've been operating this way. great an excellent reporting, antonia hylton, thank you so much for being here. the death toll in turkey and syria climbs over 20,000. search teams are in a race against the clock to find any

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the earthquake that hit turkey and syria is now over 20,000 people. teams are racing to rescue people, but there's still hope of finding more survivors. reporter gave you terrace has more from turkey.

>> just from the path to two hours we have one person, a 57-year-old woman pulled out alive from this debris behind me. search crews have now moved in this excavator. so it's a little difficult to see what's going on. but there is one group over there and one over they are still looking for survivors here. rescue crews tell us that this woman was conscious, she was alive and speaking with them and that she somehow managed to survive inside a very small space inside that debris. she has now been rushed to the hospital. search teams think there could be at least one other person trapped alive inside behind me. joy, this is something we have been seeing over and over again as all this international aid comes to this area. there has been some criticism of the government, they weren't able to mobilize search teams quickly enough, but joy, it's also questioned the sheer scope of this disaster. there are two u.s. search and rescue teams now in southeastern turkey, but there is just so much overwhelming need. we visited a tent camp just a

block from here that has been sent up for thousands of people where they are desperate, trying to find food and shelter as the temperatures get bitterly cold overnight. now today, thankfully, the yuan was able to send a humanitarian aid convoy from turkey into northwestern syria. of course the country blocked by civil war and now this natural disaster, they are having a very tough time over there. only 5% of the sites that apparently need search and rescue teams have had access to them, according to the u.n., and more than 300,000 people are displaced in syria. meanwhile, here in turkey you can see active search and rescue operations are continuing into now a fifth day. around the clock, all this as the death toll and these devastating earthquakes have 23,000 people across turkey and syria. >> gabe guterres, thank. you that's tonight's read out. all in with chris hayes starts now.