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>> i remember pat saying something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more. they're literally calling for the vice president to be f'ing hung. and mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, pat. he thinks mike deserves it. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. >> the pence subpoena. what really happened between trump and his vice president in the days leading up to january 6th? and could this be a signal that we are nearing the end of the special counsel investigation of donald trump? also tonight, reproductive rights under threat. again. the right wing trump nominated judge who could single-handedly ban abortion pills nationwide. plus, students in alabama said they were told to censor their black history month program and leave out all the uncomfortable stuff like slavery and civil rights as the right continues to target black history. >> we begin tonight with former

vice president mike pence weighing his response to a new subpoena from special counsel jack smith. that subpoena is related to the investigation into donald trump's failed attempts to stay in power after losing his bid for re-election in 2020 according to a source familiar with the matter. pence is the highest level person in trump's orbit to face a subpoena and perhaps the single most important witness to what actually happened in the lead-up to and on the day of january 6th. aside from donald trump himself. you must remember that trump's entire plan to try to overturn the election and our democracy with it relied on his second in command's willingness to play along and not certify certain states' electoral votes. while pence had spent four years looking like a bobblehead offering that loving obedient gaze to nearly everything trump asked of him, what we have learned over the last two years is that the pressure campaign waged on pence to go along with trump's coup attempt turned out to be a bridge too far.

though trump did at least think about it. we know that pence sought the advice of former vice president dan quayle over whether he could actually overturn the election if he had the illegal authority to do it. according to bob woodward and robert costa in their book "peril" quayle told pence, mike, you have no flexibility on this, none, zero. forget it, put it away. you don't know the position i'm in, pence said. i do know the position you're in. i also know what the law is. you listen to the parliamentarian. that's all you do. you have no power. now, we know pence himself has publicly shared how the mastermind behind this plot, john eastman, didn't even fully buy into it himself. describing an oval office meeting between them and trump on january 4th claiming, quote, i turned to the president, who was distracted and said, mr. president, did you hear that? even your lawyer doesn't think i have the authority to return

electoral votes. and we know that when "the new york times" reported on pence's response the next day, trump put out a statement, not only calling it fake news, but claiming that he and pence were in total agreement that pence did indeed have the power to act. as we learned from the january 6th committee hearings, that was a surprise to pence and his team. >> we were shocked and disappointed because whoever had written and put that statement out, it was categorically untrue. >> we know the pressure only intensified in the final hours before congress was to certify the votes. that morning, trump and pence had one final call before pence headed off to the capitol and it was anything but civil. >> it was a different tone than i had heard him take with the vice president before. >> the word that she related to that the president called the vice president, apologize for being impolite, but do you

remember what she said her father called him. >> the p-word. >> we know the pressure continued when trump spoke at his rally on the ellipse. >> all vice president pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify, and we become president, and you are the happiest people. i just spoke to mike. i said mike, that doesn't take courage. what takes courage is to do nothing. that takes courage. and then we're stuck with a president who lost the election by a lot. mike pence is going to have to come through for us. and if he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country. because you're sworn to uphold our constitution. >> and we know that adding to that ongoing pressure were the threats coming from trump's own supporters that he unleashed on the capitol.

>> and we know that even as pence came within 40 feet of those same insurrectionists who wanted to hang him, he refused to leave the building, knowing it would allow the certification to be stopped, at least temporarily. >> and i understood that the vice president had refused to get into the car. the head of his secret service detail, tim, had said i assure you, we're not going to drive out of the building without your permission. and the vice president said something to the effect of, tim, i know you. i trust you. but you're not the one behind the wheel. >> and that brings us to what we don't know. what else was said between pence and his former boss? what else did pence witness as he participated in all of these meetings? that is apparently what jack smith is hoping to find out. the answers to those questions could have very serious legal

and political implications for trump. and we have to be careful here that we do not know if this brings us closer to an actual indictment of trump because it kind of feels like we have been down this road before. however, as former u.s. attorney joyce vance points out, we could be getting to the very end of the process at the very least. and joining me now is olivia troye, former senior adviser to vice president mike pence, and nick ackerman, former assistant special watergate prosecutor and former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. olivia, i want to start with you. mike pence has said in the past that the january 6th committee was not entitled to his testimony, he wasn't standing in the way of anyone else doing it, but they're not entitled to it. do you expect him to try to fight this subpoena because he's also written a book. he's put a lot of this out there already, but what do you make of the subpoena as somebody who worked for him? >> hi, joy. you know, i think this subpoena is critical. i think it gives him some

political top cover, so to speak, especially as he eyes 2024. because i think he will run. and i think this is sort of, it paves the way for him to say, legally, i have to come forward. i should comply. i see a path for him to do that. i will say this. just because he complies with it does not mean he's going to be rather forthcoming in whatever he says. i think he keeps hicards very close to his chest and it's going to take further compelling for him to divulge more information. >> and let me come to the table here with you, nick, because mike pence in some ways, in every way, is the potential victim here, but he also did go along with it to a certain extent. i mean, at one point, he's talking to dan quayle, according to this book "peril" and he says, well, you know, there's some stuff out here in arizona. and you know, the response from quayle is, man, i live in arizona. there's nothing out there. he's entertaining going along with it, which implies he knew something about the plot. >> i think the whole plot was

geared toward mike pence. the fake electors, that was all geared towards what would be given to mike pence. the business about putting in a puppet attorney general that would sign a letter that would go to the legislature in arizona, saying that the election was rigged and georgia saying it was rigged. everything that donald trump did was all geared at one point to the idea that mike pence would actually get up there and send those votes back to the states because of a finding that there was fraud in the election. all of which was false. >> right. >> so he is a critical witness. and there is no way under the sun that any prosecutor in good conscience could either decide to indict or decide not to indict unless he first questions mike pence extremely thoroughly in a grand jury. he's got to take him through the entire time period, all of the

conversations in minute detail. there's no hiding behind executive privilege here. i mean, that issue does not apply. the supreme court dealt with that in 1974 in watergate. the government is entitled in a criminal investigation to every man's evidence. and that certainly includes mike pence. i think what you're going to see is he's going to go into that grand jury and he's going to be there for a long time. >> and you know, what do you expect? knowing him and having worked for him, he wants to run for president. he still wants the support of the republican base, much of which is still very tied to donald trump. but he also is somebody who donald trump completely turned on, on january 6th. and we don't know if it was before or just on january 6th. he literally was posting threatening tweets about mike pence that cassidy hutchinson and others testified put mike pence in even more danger because there was an armed mob already busting into the capitol, and he still wouldn't

stop. is mike pence the type of person who will say, you know what, my loyalty is gone, i'm going to tell the whole truth and not risk anything for this man anymore? >> you know, that's a tough question because that is the mystery of mike pence. you know, i do think that he loves his country. i will say that he will exhibit that loyalty. he exhibited it on january 6th. i think there's a part of him where he believes his faith, and i believe he will do the right thing for the country, and especially in this moment, i think it's critical. now the other hand of it is he's also very politically calculated. i mean, i know that he has been wanting that presidency for a long time. and so as we watch him, i watch him walk this fine line where he sometimes dips his toe in the water and called donald trump out, but he quickly retreats. so in a testimony like this, it's behind closed doors. why not just set the record straight and be forthcoming

about everything that happened? and all of the pressure that was placed on you and i also want to know why didn't you want to get in that car? why were you so concerned about it? i think for him, that base is not coming back to him. i don't know how many times he needs to be told that. i don't know who is advising him. i don't know what delusional dream he's having that these voters that he lost on january 6th are going to come back and vote for him. so why not pave a different way? and i think that is the problem with mike pence. he hasn't done that. even though he writes in his book, but he's apologetic. he continues to be a trump apologist over and over again, regardless of the fact that he put his family at risk, regardless of the fact he's now going to go head on probably into 2024 against someone that he knows is a mad man. he's lived this first-hand. i have seen it first-hand. but yet, he still refuses to separate himself because i think he knows that's where the republican party is. and he needs them. he needs that base. >> well, and you know, the thing

about grand juries is they don't care. and nick ackerman, if you had him, you know, as you said, for hours and hours, and hours. what would you want to ask him? myself personally, i would also want to know what the secret service agents were saying, did you trust them? because this could be about donald trump but it could also be about some of them. what would you want to know? >> oh, i think we -- >> i'm sorry, nick first. >> yeah y think we want to know exactly what his suspicion was based on. why did he think they were trying to whisk him out of the capitol so quickly? was it one of the people that was close to donald trump that was in charge of doing that? did somebody say something to him? i mean, i'm sure he knew that part of this whole plot was to stop that vote, stop the congress from considering the electoral count, and that one way to do it was to get him off premises, get him out of the capitol. so i think, you know, he

probably did have other conversations with people. don't forget, once mike pence told him there's no way, no how i'm going to do this, donald trump knew that the only way he was going to stop this whole count was through the violence, through the disruption and the chaos that ensued at the capitol. and that one of the ways to do it, of course, was to get mike pence out of the capitol as a result of all this violence, and use the secret service as a foil and an excuse to do that. mike pence is no idiot. he had to know what was going on. and he had lots of detail conversations with donald trump, and that's what they're going to go through in minute detail. there is no way he can play both sides of the aisle on this thing and try and somehow come out looking like politically okay with the base and telling the truth. it just can't be done here. and i think where he's really going to have a problem is if donald trump does get indicted

and he's got to show up as a witness. i mean, it's going to be an amazing scene. i mean, the government calls former vice president pence. mr. pence, do you know donald trump? yes. can you point him out to the jury please? i mean, it's really going to be a pretty momentous occasion, first time ever in american history that anything like this has ever happened. >> and i guess this is sort of my curiosity again. do you think, olivia, based on the fact that he went to a certain extent along with it and quizzed dan quayle quite sincerely about whether he could actually do it, do you think if the violence hadn't happened, mike pence actually might have gone along with donald trump's plan? >> gosh, i hope not. but you know, political ambition we have seen is blinding for some of these republicans. as much as i wanted to have faith in some of these people where i thought they would have

the moral courage to do the right thing at times they have failed me repeatedly, time and time again. so i think, you know, a lot of these people, they do things if they think they won't get caught. so i mean, that's a sad statement to say about my former boss, but it's reality. >> yeah. it's a sad state of affairs indeed for american democracy. i appreciate both of you being here to talk us through it. olivia troye and nick ackerman, thank you both. >> up next on "the reidout," a court case being heard by an extremist trump judge poses the single greatest threat to abortion rights since the reversal of roe v. wade. you will want to hear this. "the reidout" continues after this.

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a federal judge in texas is on the verge of deciding a case that may pose the threat to abortion rights since samuel alito's supreme court overturned roe v. wade. in the next couple weeks that judge will rule on whether to reverse the fda's decades old approval of the abortion pill. which could essentially ban the drug, it would essentially ban the drug nationwide. yes, you heard that correctly. nationwide. meaning every single state, no matter how blue or how red. the drug accounts for more than half of all abortions in this country, and has been a major lifeline for those living in states with some of the strictest abortion bans. the judge who will ultimately decide the fate of this pill is a man by the name of matthew

kaczmarek, who was unsurprisingly, nominated by donald trump. just to give you some background, before joining the bench, he worked as deputy general counsel at a christian law firm known as the first liberty institute. it's known for representing cases that oppose the separation of church and state and are also anti-lgbtq. in his past writings he has described being transgender as a mental disorder. he's called homosexuality disordered and he's said sexual revolutionaries had made the unborn child and marriage secondary to, quote, erotic desires of liberated adults, unquote. this past october, he struck down new guidelines from the biden administration that protected transgender folks from workplace discrimination. and two months later, ruled that anyone under the age of 18 in the state of texas needs approval from their parent before getting birth control from federally funded clinics. joining me is senator mazie

hirono, and wednesdayy davis, former texas state senator and founder of deeds not words. senator, i want to start with you first. this is a very clear example of judge shopping. the guardian wrote about the way that they wound up with this judge, and it said if you probe deeper, it becomes clear why this particular court is so popular among extreme right wing litigants. last september, the rules of the court were amended so as to acquire all cases to be heard by kaczmarek. that means anyone going judge shopping in amarillo knows exactly what they're going to get, a trump appointed federal judge unafraid to sweep legal precedent aside. the real danger here is that could also describe samuel alito and the other five members of the extreme right supreme court. so it feels like there are now two powerful federal courts that women, that could put women's health and lives in jeopardy. >> that's right. there have been over 200 judges

appointed by -- nominated by trump, and so many of them like judge kaczmarek have an idealogical ax to grind, and they're very busy with that ax and that is why all these cases are going before him. when we think about the chaos that was created by the supreme court's overturning of roe v. wade, that is going to be completely compounded, and i know wendy knows this because she comes from the state where so much of this is happening. it's going to be even more compounded if this judge with his right-wing agenda does away with the medication abortion pill, and that is going to affect millions and millions of women in every state, even a state like hawaii which was the first state in the nation to decriminalize abortion. >> you know, wendy davis, you obviously stood up and we remember your pink sneakers, and tried to stop your state from taking away women's rights. it's gone way in the other

direction. it's one of the most extreme states when it comes to owning women the minute they're pregnant and girls, teenagers, little girls. talk about what it would mean if now women can't even get this pill. now women in states like yours would have no recourse in any state. >> that's exactly right, joy. as senator hirono points out, this isn't something that's just going to impact people in texas. it will impact people in new york and california and any other state that currently allows free unfettered access to abortion. in texas, though, where abortion is now criminalized, it is often the only way that people can access the abortion care that they need. and as you know, attorney general merrick garland not long ago put forward an administrative order basically saying that the post office can

deliver these drugs without fear of any kind of retribution into states like texas, clearing the way really for the drug to be able to be used if patients in texas can get a doctor to prescribe it to them and send it to them there. and so this is a way clearly of trying to crack down on that. what i think is interesting about this forum shopping that we see happening with this particular judge in amarillo is that this same thing was happening in texas in 2018 with patent cases where patent trolls were being given a friendly audience before the single judge in waco to whom these cases could be assigned. and they were being filed there from all over the country until finally the western district where that court was, the chief judge of the western district decreed that those cases would now be assigned throughout the entire western district and not just in waco. and i wonder if something

similar could happen here. the amarillo court is in the northern district of texas. and i would like to see if that is something we may want to consider, whether that could be, you know, considered at the federal level by senator hirono and her colleagues or whether the northern district chief judge who is a george w. bush appointee might consider doing that here as well, because we're seeing a flood of these kinds of cases going to this particular judge. >> senator. >> yes. the court, as wendy said, could decide for itself they should distribute these cases in the way that she explained. but if they don't do that, then i would say that congress should consider stepping in and forcing a distribution that would result in fair and objective rulings which is definitely not what we have. i want to mention, joy, we have a u.s. supreme court that is really captive of the far right with alito and thomas, et cetera, but they do not even

have a judicial code of ethics that appies to them. there are bills, we have to have bills that would force them to adopt a code of ethics which they refuse to do so far. >> the thing is that, you know, you also have a republican party, senator, who they have -- the v.a. announced the veterans administration, i know you sit on the committee that oversees them, they would offer abortions in cases of rape, incest, and when a mother's life is at risk. republican lawmakers just this wednesday reintroduced a resolution to reverse the policy using a process that would force the vote in the senate even though it is controlled by democrats. you have them doing that. you have republicans who have been lying this whole time, mcconnell, chuck grassley, mike rounds, mitt romney, ron johnson, all lying and saying the states should control it. we're glad roe is gone because it's going to be all for the state. they don't believe that. they all want a national ban and it seems they're trying to get

it by any means necessary. >> exactly. frankly, that's why we can't trust them on issues like medicare and social security either. so yes, what they're doing is they will find every way to gain control. this is about power and control over a woman's right to bodily autonomy. that's what it is. the kind of anti-women fervor that is exemplified by all of these actions, by the republicans, is just awesome. we have to fight back. >> women, seriously, watch out who you're voting for. you're voting for people who view themselves as your owner. in places like texas, in some of these red states. women voting for these people to put them in charge of your body and now they own your body the minute you become pregnant and your daughters. thing about it before you vote. senator mazie hirono and wendy davis. thank you. >> still ahead, the conservative war against the teaching of black history continues to escalate as we learn more about

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so you know what happens when bans against black history occur during black history month? confusion. confusion over what exactly can be discussed along with genuine anger and outrage over his tore kk erasure. this week, nearly 300 alabama high school students walked out

of class after what they describe as racism and censorship of a black history program. alabama news also reports that students of hillcrest high school where 55% of students are black, were told to focus more on current black history rather than old stuff before 1970. because cue the dripping sarcasm, nothing noteworthy about black people occurred before 1970. none of that old stuff. school officials are denied the claim leaving the question, why did the students walk out? and then in florida, otherwise known as america's sunshineiest laboratory of fascist and autocracy, the rejection of an a.p. african american studies class has reached a boiling camp. we're learning the desantis camp complained for months about the course while the college board and nonprofit that over sees the a.p. program continues to insist florida's concerns did not

influence any of the course revisions. joining me is christina greer, host of the blackest questions, a podcast which is probably illegal to listen to in the state of florida. has the word black in it. it's going to make people upset. christina, as an educator yourself, as a scholar of history, of black history, do you make of this idea that an alabama high school would tell high school students that they must not talk about black history that occurs before 1970. you would miss a lot of stuff, including the civil rights movement. >> you know, joy, we joke about the blackest questions but as i say on the podcast, to understand black history is to understand american history. if you don't know black history, you don't know american history. there's no way you can detangle the contributions and struggles and triumphs of black people in this country from its inception.

why don't we just start at 1970? okay, we can take someone like ruby bridges who isn't even 70 years old. we can still have so much of the civil rights movement in conversations from the beginning, but we know so much of ron desantis and his ilk because it's not gist him, he's the face of it, but there are so many other governors who are passively in agreement. they just might make it a little more palatable, but tare fully onboard with erasing the struggles and racism of every single policy decision that has ever been made in this nation. and it's not just about white supremacy. it's also a specific anti-blackness as belle hooks explained to us, that has been intrinsic in every single practice in this nation. if you try and erase that, you're not giving anyone the accurate picture of this united states. all people in this country. >> i thing you were perhaps referring to the sweater vest of glenn youngkin who essentially has gotten a huge bly from the

media and teased at some sort of modern -- no, he's not. he literally ran on saying your precing child who is white will never have to read a book by a black person on my watch and that makes him what, a moderate? no. i want it go through some of the book banning. duval county, florida, lots of black folks there. they banned 176 books removed from school. thank you, jackie robinson, a story about friendship, banned. a book about roberto clemente banned. the life of rosa parks. a storm called katrina, and a book called dumpling soup. these are just some books that have been banned. it's very hard to get around the fact that the only books that are deemed controversial by the right, by people like desantis, the youngkins of the world, are books about black people, books about gay people, books about the holocaust. see where i'm going?

they have never said a book about any european is controversial or will make someone upset. there have been european wars, shakespeare has death, demons in the othello story. none of that to them is controversial. only things about black people, jewish people, and gay people. hard to see that as a coincidence. but mostly black people. >> it's absolutely not a coincidence, joy. you know, i have said this quote on your show several times before. you know, my favorite president, lbj always said, you can convince the poorest white man he's better than the negro, you can pick his pockets all day long. here we are. a book like rosa parks, what ron desantis and youngkin and abbott are so afraid of, as an educator, we talked a lot about education and the importance in our families. both of us have roots in florida. a good educator sparks a light inside of a child. we plant seeds. they might develop while we have them. they might develop months or years later. if you learn about rosa parks in third grade, there might be something years later, let me find out more about her.

you find out she's not some meek lady who didn't guv up her seat. you find out she's a rape investigator, she went hard in the paint in deep parts of the deep south by herself as a brave black woman to investigate rapes of other black women. you find out that hank aaron was a humanitarian, not just a baseball player. he actually transcending not just this racial aspect of the baseball game, but he fought for racial and equal justice along class lines. he was just so much more than, you know, mr. hank aaron, nothing 45, i think he was. you know, we find out so much more about jackie robinson, his critique of capitalism and how he was a republican, but sparked a larger debate in the black community about is black capitalism something we want? how do we detangle these issues? all these books that are being banned are seeds planted in children's minds. we're seeing governor desantis wants to keep the state of florida, the children in the state of florida as ignorant as possible so they and their parents can keep voting for

policies that work against them. >> what i would love for white parents who are tempted by this -- by these bans and thinking these are good for your kids to interrogate for yourself, why is it that you only are uncomfortable with books about black people, jewish people, and lgbtq? just interrogate that for yourself. you know, that's what critical thinking is. you know, it isn't dangerous. critical thinking is good for you. think about it for yourself. you don't think about yourself as racist or a bad person, but you're uncomfortable, but you're only uncomfortable with books about black historical figures, the holocaust, and lgbtq. i'm just asking you to ask yourself that question for black history month. christina greer, thank you. who won the week is still ahead. before we go to break, the latest installment in our new blog series, black history uncensored, highlights the great richard write, the renowned author of black boy and native son and a frequent target of

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(tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. president biden has had a pretty darn good week. deftly exposing the unhinged nature of the maga party while getting them to commit to never cutting social security,

medicare, or medicate even though they want to. oddly enough, dark brandon is getting hope from old school republicans like mitch mcconnell who has launched a low key war on the insurrectionist wing of his party, which just so happened to vote against him to return to his role as minority leader. roll call reported that josh hawley was booted from the armed services committee because of his role in challenging the boss. guess who else got the kiss of death? utah senator mike lee who got from his perch on the commerce committee. lee has been having a rough week. first biden exposed his plan to pull social security up from the roots and now this. but it was his social security and medicare hating tea party brother in arms florida senator rick scott who ticked off mitch mcconnell. >> unfortunately, that was the scott plan. that's not a republican plan. that was a rick scott plan. i mean, it's just a bad idea.

i think it will be a challenge for him to deal with this in his own re-election in florida. >> ouch. as a parting gift, mcconnell had the medicare and medicaid defrauding floridian booted from the commerce committee too. scott isn't real happy about it. he called mcconnell petty and told reporters mitch is backing up biden again. it looks like scott won't be campaigning alongside mitch in 2024 when rick scott is up for re-election. joined me now is hayes brown and jeremy peters, "new york times" correspondent and author of insurgency, how republicans lost their party and got everything they ever wanted. that means i have to start with you, jeremy. the thing about it is the mitch mcconnells of the world were willing to use the maga republicans and the tea party before them to get more power because they know white working class voters are going to vote for them and yay, they win. it does seem like they're sick of them now and want them out. >> it's a reminder of who the republican party really was

under the pre-trump regime. so mitch mcconnell was always somebody who wanted to cut spending and in fact, wanted to cut social security and medicare before it became unpopular under donald trump. now, they have decided that they reject that and they're becoming a more populist party. their true colors are showing, joy. i think you really have when it boils down to it, is a situation where mitch mcconnell and the republicans of mitt romney type, the john mccain type, the george bush type, don't really understand their party anymore. >> they don't understand, yeah. the thing about it is, the base of the party elected george santos. the base of the party elected marjorie greene, the base of the party, this week, she did a screaming hearing where she just chewed people out and yelled and screamed. it's embarrassing to them. they wanted trump, but they didn't want him to act like trump, but they don't disagree on policy.

mitch mcconnell blamed candidate quality for losing the 2022 -- he's equally to blame, he put together the supreme court that got rid of roe. that's why they lost. >> but that i feel like is more delivering on republican promises. they have been saying for a long time that's what they want to do. social security and medicare they have been lying about. mcconnell, he lived through the george w. bush privatization fight. he knows how much backlash can come when you say what it is you're trying to do. before scott put out his plan to rescue america last february, mcconnell was content to let democrats ride it out on their own. biden is unpopular. we'll sit back and let the democrats implode, but then scott, who wants to show leadership and gumption and all of these things soand he wants e president. >> also majority leader, whatever gets in power in the short term. it's like, no, we need to show leadership, we need to show are going to do. it has come back to bite him. i feel like mcconnell still

gets that things that people, he still gets what people won't vote for. he still has the same policy. the same principles. but he also knows what to abandon if it won't help them win back the senate. >> i feel like the original, i'm a bit of a broken record, apologize for my staff, is the tea party. mike is a tea party, aric scott is a tea party, around desantis is a tea partier. those are all the people that swept in on the tea party wave and ten and 14. they loved having been there because they excited that same group of voters. but now that they are there and they have power, they actually want to continue to do the things that they came in on. getting rid, likely said in 2010, i want to pull social security and medicare. they know it will be an electoral loser, like getting rid of abortion rights. >> remember the famous signs, keep your government hands off my social security? it was a tea party rallying cry. and that just shows, there is

no ideological consistency here. it's whatever winds them elections. that's what mitch mcconnell, he has been very good at it over the years, allying himself with the trump republicans, aligning himself with the tea party. but at a certain point, that kind of hollowness runs its course. >> and i feel like there are certain of them that i think chafe war under the hollowness. i thought rim not mitch romney is that guy. he's really a great governor of michigan. a great man in many ways. i think he feels that he is lesser in a way. he is starting to try to come back from his humiliation, the trump dinner and all of that. now he went after santos. he is stronger than mitch mcconnell, or kevin mccarthy on that. what do you think his game plan is? >> i think his game plan is, i really think that mitt romney at this point is going to be content to be a senator for as long as he can. i think that part of the problem where you have the cruises and hollies and scots,

they are constantly looking ahead to what they're gonna be looking, at the white house for most of them. mitch mcconnell, the reason why he has been so steady is because he doesn't want anything else but to be senate majority leader. mitt romney is thinking at that point, -- so you have mitt romney who is somebody who tries to get legislation passed. i don't agree with all of it, usually, but he at least wants to legislate. like, say, scott, hollies, et cetera, if he's not gonna legislate either but he knows how to win how to strategize, how to put together an agenda or lack thereof to help the republicans get a majority. >> i think that romney wants his reputation. i don't know him at all but he strikes me as someone who would want his reputation. but we have more of the week coming up, and i'm going to preview it by giving you guys a steak on who you want to win the super super bowl. and we have two black

quarterbacks. who are you going for a win to the two quarterbacks do you want to take home with? >> i'm gonna go baylis. i'm rooting for everyone black. >> so am i. i like mahomes to. but mahomes already has -- a analysis already and when you go for philly. >> my dad from kansas city and he would disown me if i didn't say kansas city. >> oh, okay. i'll cover him the honor. that's all most of us care about. we're gonna watch that and we hope whoever wins it's gonna be somebody black. black history month everybody! it's illegal! we're gonna stick around to kick off the week with who won the week. that is next. that is next

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to the end of another week which means it's time to play our favorite game. who won the week? back with me are he's bound jeremy peters. hayes brown, who have the? week >> joe biden. easy layup. i was prepared to be kind of board watching state of the union this year in the fact that i was surprisingly entertain throughout and the fact watching him doing his little dual against the republicans, kudos to him for nailing. that and to have a really good flow, because biden is not really known for his oratory. it is nuts and bolts speech but when that kept me engaged throughout. >> you know i was so good? because he didn't give the speech. dark branded me the speech. >> it's obvious, yes, joe

biden. because he showed us what the republican party really is. marjorie taylor greene heckling, lauren robert heckling, it was just chaos and uncontrolled anger and venom. and he played on that really really well. i think laid out a very clear contrast. if you want policy, and let's face it, his policies, the american people are not yet sold on. he's got low approval ratings. but next to that -- >> next to that kookiness. but i'm gonna go for fashion. i'm gonna go for fashion week i'm gonna go to the zucchini show, the sergio hudson show this weekend. black fashion is killing it in the united states. he's a brilliant young designers, and we're gonna be showing fashion week and i will be there. thank you he's brown in jeremy peters. all in with chris hayes starts right now. right now.