>> as always, thanks to you for watching the katie phang show, velshi, is next. >> good morning, it is saturday, february 11th, i am sam stein filling in today for my friend, ali velshi. today on the show, we will have the very latest on what the u.s. military is calling a, quote, high altitude object shot down over american airspace over alaska. plus, what we know about the fbi search for classified documents at former vice president mike pence's indiana home. former pence aide will join me later in the show. and, congressman bonnie watson coleman will be here to talk about the long fight for police reform, and a piece of american history you probably don't know

about. we begin this morning with the latest signs that the justice department's investigation of donald trump are escalating and shifting to a more a vance's stage. on thursday, nbc news learned that former vice president, mike pence, was subpoenaed by jack smith, the special counsel appointed by attorney general merrick garland to handle this departments investigations of the january six investigation in of donald trump's handling of classified documents. the subpoena follows months of negotiations between pence's legal team and the department of justice. so, it is also the latest indication that smith is taking a hard look at the scheme to submit fake electors to falsely declared trump the winner over the election in states that joe biden actually won. in december, just about a month after he was appointed, smith subpoenaed local officials in swing states that trump's team targeted in its efforts to overturn those 2020 results. if trump had had his way, pence would've played a critical role

in that scheme, which is why this subpoena is significantly important in the special counsel's investigation. the efforts to overturn the election hinged on convincing pence not to declare joe biden the legitimate winner of the presidential race when congress meant to certify the results on january 6th. it was an idea that pence ultimately rejected, now smith wants pence to turn over documents specifically related to january six investigation, and to give testimony about his interactions with trump around the time of the election and leading up to the insurrection. pence is not the only former trump administration official to receive a subpoena this week. the special counsel also subpoenaed former national security adviser, robert o'brien, in relation to both the january 6th investigation and a matter of classified documents. meanwhile, pence is dealing with his own classified document situation. yesterday the fbi conducted a five hour search of pence's

home in indiana. pence and his legal team have agreed to the search beforehand, following the elevation last month at the former vice president was still in possession of classified records. as a result of yesterday search, authorities found one additional classified document on pence's property, plus six other pages without classification markings. a lot to unpack. now, joining me to discuss all of this, nbc senior national politics reporter, jonathan owie. jonathan, thank you so much for joining us and packing with us. what else do you know about the subpoena and what does it mean for the special counsel investigations? >> good morning, sam. as you said, there was some negotiations between pence and jack smith team for quite awhile about it doing something in voluntarily. there are, of course, institutional and administration conflicts here where one administration doesn't want to hand over stuff

to another administration, possible claims of executive privileges. this involved more than just mike pence and more than just donald trump. it involves a whole lot of people in the trump administration in future presidential administrations, so there is a lot of stake it here that doesn't just meet the eye. it is not entirely that january 6th. for mike pence, you are going to want to subpoena probably before you give testimony, you are going to want to court to make some decisions about what, if anything, you can shield from the executive branch of the next president when you start on the executive branch of the next president. but it is also about the investigation, not only is it going on, but there is sort of a very serious level that they have gotten here here because you don't start off with the vice president of the united states. >> that actually raises the next question, which is, is the subpoena of pence a sign that the investigation is coming to a close? he is one of the biggest enchiladas, right? or do we expect more subpoenas

in the coming days? >> i would expect to see more from jack smith's office. he is towards the top, he is potentially the most important or one of the most important witnesses to what happened on january 6th. both at the white house and then eventually at the capitol. but there are tougher nuts to crack, one might say, in terms of trying to get up there and talk to president trump, talk to people who were in the white house while mike pence was essentially running for his life in the capital. >> and just to pick up on an earlier point, the tougher nuts to crack, and also the different components of the subpoena issue here. what is the expectation that trump's own legal team is going to dive in here and say no, this stuff is protected by executive privilege, you cannot, mike pence, talk to special counsel. that would be a violation of that executive privilege that we are talking about. >> i think it was close to her percent chance that is exactly

what happens, but there is this question, again, of what this executive branch can hide from the executive branch. this is not a case where congress is looking into mike pence and looking into donald trump and asking for the executive branch to give over information to congress, this is actually one executive -- one administration's executive branch asking for permission from another administrations executive branch, and, i am not a lawyer, sam, -- >> you could play one for us. >> i will try my best to simply say that it is a very different question to say whether or not congress should have access to testimony and records. >> and that is what separates us from the january six committee, and weirdly enough, that is what tides this to the issue of classified documents, right? which is, which executive branches in possession of these documents? trump says i took all these classified documents to mar-a-lago, they are mine, the national archives said no, this is long's to the executive branch. now we have this issue with pence and biden himself, who

also had classified documents on their home, do we know what the significance was of the fbi's finding yesterday? it was a small number of one document, i believe, and a few others with no classification markings. do we have any idea yet the significance of those documents? >> according to devin o'malley the adviser to mike pence who spoke about this yesterday in a statement, you've got one document with classified markings, six other documents that do not have classified markings. the implication there is that some of these are things that the national archives and whether administration would want under the presidential records act. one that mike pence should have, but is also not classified, we talked about high altitude in terms of the shootdown over alaska. right now, it sounds like these may be very low altitude objects. what we do know is that what is in that one classified document. neither president trump nor president biden seems to think that mike pence has it in him

to steal documents for bad reasons or take them with him for bad reasons, and i'm not sure that the rest of the public does either, because the guy is a little bit of an eagle scout, more forthcoming then president trump was and certainly more forthcoming than president biden was. >> nbc news senior national politics reporter, and not a lawyer, as he wants you to know, john allen. thank you very much. i am joined now by a lawyer, paul butler, he is a former federal prosecutor and professor at georgetown school of law. he is also an msnbc legal analyst, paul, thank you so much. mike pence was not subpoenaed by the january six committee as part of its investigation, he also didn't cooperate with them either because of what he considered it's quote, partisan nature, as jonathan and i were just talking about, he has now been subpoenaed, it appears, by the special counsel. how does that change the

calculation for him? i'm >> so, this looks like trial prep to me. i think that i inexperienced public prosecution i -- like jack smith would only do this for an extremely compelling reason. two things, sam. i think prosecutors want to lock in pence's testimony if charges are brought against former president trump, and jack smith also wants to know what went down in those one-on-one conversations between trump and pence. the january 6th committee heard from pence's top aide, but of course, pence himself refused to talk to that committee. he will probably be forced to talk to the grand jury, when prosecutors learned that there is anything that they don't yet know. >> so, paul, john and i were talking about the issue of executive privilege. because it is almost a certainty that trump's team

will assert it and say no, you can't talk about this. this was all private conversations between trump and pence, there was no reason that we should spill the beans on this. this was in effective tool for them with the january six committee, but that was congress trying to get information on the executive branch. in this case it is the biden executive branch trying to get information on the trump executive branch. how does that change the legality of the request for that information from pence? >> great question. so this is different. first of all because it is a not a grand jury subpoena withdrawn enforcement powers, if you don't obey a grand jury subpoena, federal agents can lock you up until you do. and that is not true of a congressional subpoena. legally, this is kind of an easy case, pence will eventually have to comply with the subpoena. he might claim executive privilege, but the supreme court has said it doesn't carry

the same way in criminal investigations. plus, pence probably wade any privileges after writing about january 6th in his book. but you don't get to say stuff to sell books and then claim that you can't talk about it to the grand jury because it's privileged. well >> that's a good point. you can't disclose on your own accord, i suppose. what does the subpoena tell us about the special counsel investigation. again, talking with john about this, if they are going after the former vice president, it suggests that they are nearing some sort of conclusion. they also went after national security adviser, robert o'brien, but perhaps that is not the case. john said, look, there is other people they could go after who are more loyal to trump as opposed to pence who is loyalty is somewhat there. >> so, pyramid prosecutions, after all of this public eruption investigations, i

think most people know now that prosecutors start at the bottom, they work their way up to the top. the top isn't much higher than the vice president, but typically targets of investigations aren't subpoenaed. so i wouldn't expect trump himself to be subpoenaed, prosecutors will probably invite him to talk, and he will decline. but, sam, federal grand juries are really investigative bodies, so if pence's testimony reveals new information, prosecutors would have to chase down all of those leads that could take weeks or could take months. at the same time, the press special counsel knows that there is a presidential election less than two years away, and it isn't everybody's best interest for his recommendation to the attorney general to come as soon as possible. >> makes a lot of sense to me. professor at georgetown school of law and nbc news legal analyst, paul butler, thank you so much for your insights here. and straight ahead, we will

pivot to the politics of the trump investigations, what it means for the past, present, and future of the gop. plus, at the top of the hour, we have olivia troye, former senior adviser to vice president pence, she joins me to help break everything down. we have a denture problem. over. roger that. with polident cleanser and polident adhesive refresh and secure for any close encounter. if your mouth could talk it would ask for polident and poligrip. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv

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for the app for mentioned former vice president mike pence. here to talk about the politics of it all is someone who knows the republican party inside and out, brendan buck, former chief communications adviser for former house speaker, paul ryan, former press secretary for former house speaker, john boehner, an msnbc political analyst, brendan, you need fuel less titles. and eugene daniels, political white house correspondent and coauthor of the political playbook's. so succinct. thank you. brandon, you've had your pulse on the republican party for years, how do you see the

republican establishment, talking about folks on the hill, treading on the latest developments in the justice department's investigation of donald trump, including the subpoena by the special counsel of mike pence? >> mike pence is obviously considering a run for president, i think a lot of people on the hill or otherwise would love to see someone like mike pence who could give you a bit of the trump era policy without all of the complications and the crazy, but, of course, comes a lot of complications and i think this is a really tough situation for mike pence. having to navigate for donald trump for several years, it is really hard to have it both ways, and that is the challenge that i think mike pence is facing. he obviously has fired up some anger from based trump supporters for his role in january 6th, and even since january six he has been somewhat strident and talking about how donald trump was wrong in the way that he acted. the problem for mike pence is that he still is basing most of

his appeal for the nomination, potentially, on the idea that he was trump's vice president. he talked often about the trump pence agenda, and wants to associate himself a lot with donald trump, but at the same time, he wants to present him as risky, it is a really difficult high-wire to walk it will be interesting to see if he can pull it off. but upsetting the trump base as being involved in this subpoena is usually not a good starting place. >> no, it's not, and then simultaneously, eugene, we have this whole second track investigation and having to do with the handling of classified documents. now, obviously, pence is now involved in this, joe biden has been involved in this, donald trump has his own issues with this. now, let's discuss mike pence's handling of the situation vis-à-vis comparing it to donald trump. do you think, let's say, if he does run for president, that pence can use this? or, like with biden, has it

been nullified because a classified document has been found on pence's property as well? >> if i'm advising mike pence or if i am mike pence, i am not going to want to bring this up as a point of difference between me and donald trump. because you don't want to remind people that fbi aides were in your home looking through documents. that is not something you want to do. so i think that, for him, it is nullified, and i think the best that he can hope for is that the other folks that are going to be on the stage don't attack him or, more importantly, don't tie him and donald trump together in a possible debate stage about this issue. because that is something that is an opportunity for all of these other folks who have been thinking about, it that they've been talking to their aides who could possibly be running in the gop primary. they can say, i handle classified documents correctly, nikki haley, mike pompeo, people who work in the administration. i'm going to fix that issue. americans don't have to hear about this over and over again from your leaders. and that is something that they

are going to be able to do. mike pence will not be able to do that in a way that makes sense. and one of the reasons that fbi agents, you talk to some folks in experts, he seven an interview that he had not had any of this stuff. he didn't have any classified documents. and so, he probably didn't know that he did, but at the end of the day, it is an issue for him. >> and, yes brendan, to your knowledge are republican voters just tired of all of this stuff that they don't want any candidate at all who has a special counsel looking into him or the fbi raid in his home? and does that, to a degree, help someone who is completely removed from washington, or let me put the converse idea to you, does this actually help trump and that it victimizes him or it allows him to say, i am the victim of a joe biden department of justice gone rogue? >> i certainly think he will make that argument. i think it helps donald trump in that it takes a little air out of this. look, we had the former

president, we've had the former vice president, we've even had the sitting president had their homes raided by the fbi. there would be an era in which that would be the end of the game for anybody, but this is just kind of passing news these days, and it is something obviously that donald trump handled the documents quite differently and he may find himself in trouble just for that, but it really takes some air out of the potency of this issue. now, are there a lot of people who the republican party would like to move on from the sort of chaos of donald trump, they may still like him, and even if they don't mind the chaos, they wonder whether he can get reelected with all of this hanging out there. i think they're a lot of people questioning the viability of his candidacy with so many doj investigations, but this one, it would be very surprising to me at this point if he ends up in criminal trouble over the documents with joe biden and mike pence all so having done similar things. >> i guess would have to come down to how he handled the investigation of the documents, whether he obstructed that, and so forth. eugene, you've been covering

the white house, i know that, because i've edited your coverage of the white house. how do they feel about all of this playing out in front of them? is this something to take delight in or is that something they are now saying this is enough because we have our own problems to deal with? >> yeah, i don't think they delight in, but i do think they feel pretty lucky that as soon as the day that they found documents at mike pence's house and they called the federal government to let them know, i talk to some aides and they were like, this is really good for us, in that, it shows that this is a problem that not just donald trump has, not just joe biden has, but this is an issue in possibly the over classifications of documents in the federal government, and also how it is handled and tracked. and those are things that are different and can we go through policy in that kind of stuff, and so it doesn't look like it is just joe biden, and donald trump, these two old men that just wobbled out of the white house and the vice presidents

with classified documents. >> all right, thank you both, up brendan brendan buck, former press secretary to -- a big adviser to paul ryan in an nbc news political analyst, too many titles. and white house correspondent for politico and cool author of the political playbook, also a lot of titles, eugene daniels, thank you both for waking, up we really appreciate it. moving on, it is not a bird, it is not plain, it may not even be a chinese spy balloon either. so what did the u.s. military shootdown over alaska yesterday? the latest on what we know, next, on velshi.

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my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. >> turning now to the drifting relations between the united states and china, drifting, funny. yesterday the u.s. military shot down what the pentagon is calling a quote, high altitude

object, flying it 40,000 feet over american airspace in alaska. notably, officials aren't saying which country owns the object. they also aren't calling it a balloon, unlike the chinese spy balloon, the military shot down on sunday after it traversed and hovered over parts of the continental united states last week. we now know that the balloon is part of a chinese surveillance balloon fleet which had been observed in more than 40 countries across five continents. joining me now is pulitzer prize-winning pentagon correspondent for the new york spines, helene cooper, she is also in nbc news political analyst. helene, thank you so much for being here, the pentagon is not saying publicly the latest flying object was from china or that was even a balloon. so what do we actually know about this? what is your reporting telling you? >> good morning. i think that if you look at the

strict definition of the phrase, we just had our first ever ufo shootdown briefing. you've got your pun, i'm done with it, i'm not going to do that anymore. but it is -- as of late last night, the pentagon was saying that they have no idea, and if they do know, they're not telling us. several people at the pentagon and throughout the administration quietly said to us yesterday that they thought it was a balloon, a much smaller balloon than the one we shot down a week ago, but then that got contradicted to me by a couple of other people who said that when the object hit the sea, the frozen sea, it split up and broke up into pieces. that puts a little bit more mystery on the balloon idea. so this is where we are right

now. i spent the whole night last night waking up and looking at myself phone waiting to see if there was a message there from somebody saying what it is, i was told last night that we can expect to know a little bit more in a day or two, what that means in pentagon speak, i'm not sure, because often it will be a conservative stuff that they already know. so it has been a really weird day on this beat, especially because everyone is so hyped up on china, and there are people within the defense department who think that only china would have done this. but they are not sure. so, at the moment, we just don't know, or at least i don't. i still kind of suspect that they know what it is -- >> but they are not telling us? >> but why wouldn't they tell us it? >> you bring up a good point, there is the comical point which is if you are an alien thank you coming down to this planet, don't do it at this time. we are a little trigger-happy.

but on the more serious point, the suspicion that, instinctively, that it is china. this is coming at a very pivotal moment in u.s. china relations. countries are drifting further apart, beijing now says that it has rejected a recent call from the u.s. over the incident because of the quote atmosphere is not right, we had centuries say that blinken canceled's trip to china, where does it go from d.c. in beijing? how do american officials prevent this from going completely off the rails? >> that is the really important question, because these are the world's two great powers. we can't have things go completely off the rails, they were already bad to begin with between washington and beijing, secretary of state, anthony blinken's trip was going to be the first ever of a biden administration cabinet secretary, which is insane when you think about it. it -- we used to have high-level

discussions between senior administration officials and the chinese all the time. nobody has been there in three or four years now. so that is president biden when he spoke with xi jinping, i believe they've only done this by zoom, so it has been pretty cold and pretty chilly and pretty tense. and this doesn't make things any better. i think, at the pentagon, they appear to still be a little miffed over the fact that the chinese refuse to take defense secretary lloyd austin's call. he may have tried to call a little too soon, he tried to call within minutes of us shooting down the balloon, maybe they needed a little bit more time to absorb this. and the chinese started out, if you look at how the rhetoric has changed over the past, ever since the first balloon showed up over montana, the chinese

initially started out sounding, not apologetic but, oh, it is a weather balloon, we are sorry it drifted. and the rhetoric over the past ten days has gotten increasingly hostile. they appear to be very befuddled at the big deal that the united states is making of this, which is kind of rich coming from them. they go crazy when american ships are in international waters near china's shores, but still international waters. but when americans by planes, it goes to the fact that we do this to, we spy on them as, well but when our spy planes are an international airspace near china, they are always sending fighter jets up to harass them and to buzz them. so there is a little bit of hypocrisy going on on both sides, but there is definitely a danger which you point out of these two great powers letting something like this cause them

to spear -- spiral downward. >> all over some popped balloons. amazing. pentagon correspondent with the new york times and nbc political analyst, helen cooper, thank you so much for lending us your expertise. i really appreciate it. and now, a quick but important velshi programming note, starting next saturday, a week from today, velshi, both the show and the man himself, ali velshi, will be moving to a new time slot. saturdays and sundays from a 10 am to noon eastern, again, velshi, this is really important, we'll be starting at ten a.m. instead of eight a.m.. that means a little more sleep for everyone involved. also happening next weekend, aly is heading back to ukraine to mark one year of the russia invasion. he will host this show and some primetime hours during the week, live from ukraine, starting on february 18th at ten a m eastern. and up next, we will head to --

where there are currently live rescues following monday's devastating earthquake. that is next, on velshi. the highest level of safety you can earn? subaru. when it comes to longevity, who has the highest percentage of its vehicles still on the road after ten years? subaru. and when it comes to value, which popular brand has the lowest cost of ownership? lower than toyota, honda, or hyundai? subaru. it's easy to love a car you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru. ♪♪ whenever heartburn strikes, get fast relief with tums. its time to love food back. ♪tum, tum tum tum, tums♪

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that can carry and redistribute food residue. so ditch the dish towel for better hand hygiene. bounty, the quicker picker upper. >> the death toll from monday's 7.8 magnitude earthquake decimated parts of turkey and syria have now surpassed

24,000. more than 20,000 people are dead in turkey alone, and more than 3500 are confirmed dead in syria, according to the united nations. as many as 5.3 million people in syria have potentially been left homeless in freezing winter temperatures. as you can see on your screen, the devastation is astounding. as whisker as rescuers continue to search for survivors, they put their own lives were risk with the earthquakes aftermath proving to be extremely dangerous. and the next video about to show you, a group of rescuers in -- turkey, we're scrambling to find survivors, when a mountain of debris foul on top of you them. i must warn you. the video is difficult to watch up.

joining me now is nbc news foreign correspondent, matt bradley, from gaziantep, turkey, i should warn the viewer, you he is standing in front of a rescue operation, if they ask him to be silent, he must be silent. you have been on the ground for days now, what are you watching in terms of the rescue efforts, are they still finding people alive? >> yeah, sam, we are now five days after this, and it is well more than the 72 hour window that rescue experts say when you can normally expect to find people alive in wreckage like this one, and this is a nightmarish scene as you can see, throughout southern turkey and northern syria. but, last night, my team and i witnessed really the impossible. this was a mother and her child, taken out of a scene, really just like this one, again, almost five days after the initial quake. and what was so unlikely about

this was that this also was an unusual sort of circumstance. this was a rescue effort that was led by turks, not rescue workers, but actual coal miners. and you can see that approach and how they were doing it. the entrance to what they had built was built like a coal mine, and they were using chopped up wood to try and prop it up. they were actually assisted by an american team from los angeles and from fairfax county, virginia, who were there just in reserve. they were watching from the background, and recalled up right at the end to provide medical assistance to the mother as she was taken out. so this was a very delicate operation, we were there for hours an hour zidane folded, it is something that you can, again, see throughout this country. and it is why rescue workers are contributing, as you mentioned, before, they are continuing to ask for silence in places like this. and you wonder, five days later, are they still hoping that they are going to five people alive? but we keep seeing stories like we did last night of that exact

same thing, where we are seeing these unlikely events, unlikely acts of survival, ordinary people, who are accomplishing extraordinary feats of endurance, simply by surviving. same? >> matt, just quickly, you mentioned people from los angeles, from fairfax county, give us a sense of the scope of the rescue effort. how far wide are crews coming into turkey to help out. >> there are crews here just behind me, there are crews from russia in from saudi arabia, in other places we've seen crews from algeria, from spain, from bulgaria. there are 70 countries and probably more now who are participating, not just in providing aid, but also in providing crews. one of the things that we were talking with the u.s. guys, why is it that you are here, are you doing something that the turks can't do themselves? and they said, no, the turks have dogs like we have dogs, they have sensitive sounding equipment in the same level of technology that we have, but

the turks are overwhelmed. and you can see this time and time again as one of the reasons why so many of the victims that we are seeing are complaining, they feel neglected. but this crisis, a tragedy, that would overwhelm even the best prepared, even the wealthiest governments, who had the most personnel on the ground. the magnitude of this, this sprawling tragedy over basically the entire southern part of this country, and again, in northern syria, makes this just impossible for anyone nation to challenge, and that is why they are accepting so much help from so many other countries, sam. >> and beason be news foreign correspondent, matt bradley, up in turkey, we appreciate your insights. up next. sarah huckabee sanders invoked a famous chapter in american history for the struggle for civil rights in this country, but did she leave out one more or one more important piece of context? princeton's eddie cloud will join me to discuss that, next. up

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huckabee sanders delivered the republican response to president biden's state of the union address on tuesday, she referenced a topic that has since attracted some backlash. >> straight from where i sit is my alma mater, little rock central high, as a student there, i will never forget watching my dad, governor mike huckabee, and president bill clinton hold the doors open to the little rock nine. doors that, 40 years earlier, had been closed to them because they were black. today, those children, once barred from the school house, are now heroes memorialized in bronze at our state house. >> now, the little rock nine

was a group of nine black teenagers from, little rock, arkansas who were integrated into the towns whites only high school in 1957 with the help of the federal government. but it did not come easily. the historic event came after the supreme court's ruling on brown v. board of secretary shun which ended segregation. federal troops had to escort the nine students into the school after the governor of arkansas previously called in the national guard to block their entry in defiance of the supreme court. sanders reference to the little rock nine raised some eyebrows, with critics noting that one of her first acts as governor was to ban the teaching of critical race theory from arkansas public schools. critical race theory examined social inequalities through [inaudible] [inaudible]

being taught in k through 12 [inaudible] [inaudible]

[inaudible] [inaudible]

[inaudible] [inaudible] >> education on these incidents, at least to give it a gloss that doesn't actually correspond with historical fact. but >> absolutely, this is a playbook that we have seen before, when we think about what happened at the end of the

civil war and we think about the very structure -- how the south is being rendered, how the gunning school out of columbia writes the history of reconstruction, it literally whitewash is it and it absolves the south in some ways of its sins, and it both ushers in a generation of americans who don't really know the history of that period, and of course, as a result, we get jim crow for generations. and we get a society that is basically organized along the lines of white supremacy. not basically, is, so here again, we see this moment that the demographics are switching, and of course, the battle over quote unquote, race replacement theory, evident is itself in the historical graphic debate because people feel like they are being displaced historic graphically. so yes, this is particularly consistent with the struggle over who and what we will be as a country, it seems to me. >> well what we learn as a country, coming up much this

speech comes amid this larger gop attack on curriculums around the country, and dealing with american history, just one day after a speech, hundreds of alabama students walked out of their high school saying that their schools administration told them that their student run black history month program could not reference anything that happened before the 1970s, including slavery or the civil rights movement. i guess, my question to you, because the most important thing is why is this happening now? what is it about 2023, 2022, that is causing this to happen in such a high level of governance? in your estimation? >> remember, sam, black lives matter had this moment where, in order to grapple the movement, it had this moment, in order to grapple with policing, there was this broader question around our history. we had to tell a better story. and so civil war monuments came into view in charlottesville, you and around the country, and

there was a sense about history. and then in the counter-to 1776, and so there is this struggle being raged over the story we tell ourselves, because that story has everything to do with how we understand our obligations, our political responsibilities, and our mutuality. this is an extension of this deep, deep, and, how can i say, intense argument about who we are. and what is so fascinating is that the explosion of these kids in alabama is that these kids are life, didn't say that. so these kids just walked out of school out of the blue because of a lie? that doesn't make sense. and we know it is consistent with the current moment. so this battle over crt, this battle over ap courses, this forgetfulness that we saw with senator huckabee sanders, all of this is a part of this battle, the struggle we are having over who we are. and if we let them win, sam, we condemn another generation to this mess, and we will see all

of this ugliness recycled over, and over, again. i've walked out school but i've never convinced 199 of my classmates to do the same. >> professor and chair of the department of african american studies at princeton university and contributor and analyst, eddie cloud junior, thank you so much for my friend, we really appreciate it. straight ahead, former vice president mike pence has been subpoenaed by the special counsel, regarding the january six investigation. i will talk to pence's former senior adviser, olivia troye, about that. and also, the latest -- surge in his indian home, another hour of velshi starts after a quick break.

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