f what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> good morning, it's saturday

february 11th, i'm stan stein, filling in for my friend ali velshi. we begin this hour with the latest signs at the justice department's investigation into donald trump's escalating and shifting to a more advanced stage. on thursday, nbc news learned that former vice president mike pence was subpoenaed by jack smith, the special counsel appointed by attorney general eric garland, to handle the justice department investigation in the january six. and donald trump's handling of classified documents. the subpoena was filed between pence's legal team and the doj.

it's taking a hard look at the scheme to mistake electors to falsely declared trump the winner of the election in states that joe biden actually won. in december, just about a month after he was appointed, smith subpoenaed local officials in the spring state, the trump team targeted in effort to overturn the results. trump it had his way, would've paid a critical role. which is why this subpoena is a significant milestone in the special counsel's investigation. the efforts to overturn the election hinged on convincing pence not to declare joe biden the legitimate winner of the presidential race when congressman -- results on january six. it was an idea that pence ultimately rejected. smith wants pence to turn over documents specifically related to the january six investigation, and to testimony about his interactions with trump, along the time of the

election and leading up to the insurrection. he's not the only trump administration official to receive a subpoena this week. the special counsel also subpoenaed former national security adviser robert o'brien, in relation to both the january 6th and the classified documents cases. meanwhile, pence is dealing with his own classified documents situation. yesterday the fbi conducted a five hour search of pence's home in indiana. pence and his legal team have agreed to the search beforehand, following the revelation last month that the former vice president was still in possession of classified records. as a result of yesterday search, they found one additional cost five document on pence's property, plus six other pages without classification markings. joining me now to him unpack this all is nbc senior national politics reporter, jon allen. jon, what is the latest regarding the special counsel

subpoena against former vice president mike pence? >> the latest is we're waiting to hear how it turns out. pence's been negotiating as you just said a moment ago with jack smith's team to try and figure it out, if this can be done voluntarily, obviously donald trump has tried to invoke executive privilege over all sorts of testimony, particularly before the january six committee in congress. it appears that pence is at least open to all, about what should and shouldn't be shared with a grand jury with the executive branch of joe biden's presidency. we'll have to see how this plays out. but you know, the tendency here is that when there's a grand jury, people are gonna have to end up testified, the documents will be turned over, testimony will be given, so there may be some legal way to go. but pence is pretty much in a situation where i think he has to wait for a subpoena in order

to jot talk to jack. >> right, we're all trying to figure out what the timing of this means. on one, hand this could be that jack smith is wrapping things up, pence is one of the big names that he wanted to talk to. usually with subpoenas -- , on the other hand, mike pence is gonna run for president probably, right? and that announcement is likely to come relatively soon. if you want to issue that subpoena and get it out before he, runs not after he runs, right? >> he's you certainly don't to be in a position where your base basically press in a legal case against a candidate for president, it looks political, it looks like you're trying to hinder him. it is yet to be seen exactly how fast pence will make an announcement for president, unlike a lot of the other candidates, he is national name idea, he doesn't have to get up and running in terms of fundraising like other people do. he has a floor organization that allows him to do a lot of traveling the country, he has a

book tour. so he has a lot of things in place that allow him to wait a little bit longer. but if you're jack smith, you want to make sure that gets in certainly before he announces his run, and effectively turn it in to a political issue. so we've asked you to look this through the eyes of jack smith, let's look through the eyes of mike pence. what do you do here? you said he's probably going to comply with the subpoena with an executive branch subpoena on a congressional one. on the flip side of it, though if you do that, in your mike pence, you risk kissing off a whole lot of trump voters who think you turned on their guy. >> i mean, the trump supporters who stormed the capitol were chanting hang mike pence. >> fair enough. one or two of, them yeah. >> our know how much more you can piss them off, not obviously everyone who supports donald trump agreed with that statement. but there is a huge break between trump and pence, and if pence's gonna win the republican nomination, it's

part because he's won the argument within the republican party of what happened on january six. it was unconscionable. you've heard him say is not publicly. if he goes to testify, i think he has more equity to think about than just donald trump. you know as the former vice president of the united states, if somebody wants to be president himself, you know there's a lot of -- among positions for the rights of the officeholders, the rights of the institution. he may not want to set a president where there is any legal way over this. >> all right, thank you very much, and feces jon allen, from washington d.c.. i appreciate you spending your saturday morning with us. now mike pence's legal predicament is happening as the former vice president is rumored to be considering, as we mentioned, a presidential bid in 2024. that would pit him against donald trump, his former boss, who is also the subject of a

special counsel's investigation for which pence has been subpoenaed. joining me now is someone who knows bike pence well, olivia trait, she's served as homeland security adviser and counterterror advisor when he was vice president, we thank you so much. there's a lot of speculation about pence considering the presidential run. do you think that something he's still mulling over in his head? or has he made up his mind and how will that factor into how he replies to the subpoena? >> yeah, look, i think he's definitely still moving forward with that. i think we've seen him traveling around the country, we've seen him go to iowa he certainly out there publicizing his book, obviously. but i do think he has an intention to run. with the subpoena, i think it gives him political cover. this was the security blanket that i think mike pence has been looking for in terms of coming forward and actually talking about what really happened in a very honest and

truthful way behind closed doors. and then publicly, he can say look, i was compelled legally. i didn't willingly do this, he has a political top cover there for the base of the republican party. although i feel like that bases gone. but i think in his calculation, maybe he thinks that he can still win them back. >> now you mentioned that this might be -- back in november, he spoke to -- >> about why he did not cooperate with the january six committee, let's listen to what he had to say the last few questions in the back and. >> congress has no right to my testimony. we have a separation of power, this is the constitution the united states. and i believe it would establish a terrible president for the congress to summon a vice president of the united states to speak about deliberations that took place at the white house. >> you're closing the door not entirely? >> i'm closing the door on that, and eventually again, part of

the nature of the january six committee has been a disappointment to me. >> all right so, do you, how do you want to put down a marker? will he cooperate with the special counsel's request for his testimony? what he made it very deliberate decision not to participate in the congressional committee's requests for testimony? >> i think he's more likely to cooperate with the doj, it think in his head, at his perspective, he thought the committee was tuque political. i think that was the excuse that he used. now granted, i personally believe completely differently, i think he should've been forthcoming, i think he should want to willingly tell the american people the truth about just how bad the situation was. and i think, look in some, ways it's political advantage if the doj takes donald trump out of the running, that works in mike pence's favor. i'm sure that is part of the calculation going through the pence team right. now it's not like they're not thinking about that strategic

bigger picture in the long run. >> and what do you think it's going to the line to the trump people at this point? they may very well tried to -- not of them know, you cannot tell mike pence testified, he has protected executive privilege. alternatively, on a political, note they might whack him for even considering the idea of working with a special prosecutor on this. >> i can certainly see that. look, mike pence has hired an executive privilege hawk, as one of his attorneys. so i actually do think that that will be asserted at some, point whether in the trump team, and i think trump will comply and go along with that. because he is also touted executive privilege in the past. and he has been very strong on that, saying that there is the protection of the oval office. and you really believes in it in terms of the presidency. i can see in the scenario, where they will try and slow walk this again. let's be honest, pence has been stalling to tell the truth, and

to really talk about this for over two years now. that's how long this has been, and if they continue to solve this process, i believe that they will all go in on this. >> let me ask you one sort of macro question here. which is january six as an issue, we are now over two years away from it, it's still lingers obviously for a lot of us. but the republican election seems to have moved on, shown that they don't actually care all that much about what happened on that day. do you view this investigation and sort of the larger debate around the insurrection as important in the context of the republican primary? >> i think it's critical, i think there needs to be accountability for what happened that day. i don't see how we can sit here and take ourselves seriously as a country without accountability for what happened. it was a very dark day in our country's history, it should never happen again, and while the republican party wants to wash this, and while they

continue, by the way, they continue to spread a knack election denialism, i think that election integrity, i put that in, quote is now a part of the official platform that they plan to stick to. i think that is exactly why we need to hold accountability, because we can have direct stick terrorism attempting to do this again and they're still out there. >> all right, olivia olivia troye, former adviser to mike pence. still ahead, are relationship in the u.s. and china if drifting even more? plus, new fashion choices are always deliberate and meaningful. this year's black and white -- are no different. that's right after the bake, a live report where rescue and recovery efforts continue after the devastating earthquake that is in part of turkey and syria on monday. on monday. our dell technologies advisors

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the good variety. we have just learned that the death toll from monday 7.8 magnitude earthquake that decimated parts of turkey and syria, has now surpassed 25,000. that's over 1000 death since we brought you an update on this story less than an hour ago. more than 21,000 people are dead in turkey alone, more than 3500 are confirmed dead in syria, according to the united nations. as many as 5.3 million people in syria have potentially been left homeless in freezing winter temperatures. as rescuers continue searching for survivors, nbc news reports that turkish government in aid groups have distributed millions of hot meals, as well as tents and blankets. many fear that will not be enough. sending off a second disaster of hunger and exposure. they say the united states will be ramping up its assistance to

syria and turkey, with 85 million aid to provide shelter, food, and medicine. joining me now is nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley, live from gaza z and tip turkey. as i mentioned last time, matt may have to go -- but for now he can talk to us. matt, you've been there for days, how would you describe the search and efforts going on there, and can you give us an update from an hour ago. >> i mean unceasing, sam. i got here on monday night, shortly after this earthquake, and the rescue efforts have been going non stop. a lot of the rescue workers i've been speaking, to fertilize a rescue workers, i need to specify, a lot of people are just volunteers, they're just ordinary people. especially at the outset. when i first got, here we were seeing people on mountains like the one behind me, here everybody is in uniform, when i first got here there are ordinary people dressed in ordinary clothes lifting blocks

of concrete with their own hands, crawling, scratching through some of these massive mounds of, debris trying to find people who they knew, family members, neighbors, whose voices they may have heard just before that. now we're seeing this a bit more professional, and a lot more heavy equipment coming in. even though we're still starting to see that death toll increasing by the minute, by the hour, by the hundreds and thousands. you mentioned those deaths. you also mentioned might have to be silent for a little while. you know, there are people who are still surviving. and that is why rescue workers are still asking for silence in places like this. this isn't just a story of death and climbing death tolls, there are people who are still being found beneath the rubble, in my team and i know that firsthand. we were out there last night and not here, but in a nearby town within a lawyer can clue actually from los angeles county, and from fairfax county, virginia, we had the astonishing experience of

seeing the mother and child brought out from under wreckage that looked a lot like that. after nearly five days, and that is just an ordinary mother, ordinary child, having to endure something that for most of us, is the stuff of nightmares. this is an act of endurance that is on human, and they lived. now we understand that there are in hospital recuperating. this was an hours long process, and it was fascinating to, watch because this wasn't actually done, again, five professional rescue workers, they had americans on hand, they were taking the lead it was, the turks taking the lead, and again not professionals. but coal miners. people who normally dig for coal, their expertise was being called in, in the entrance to what they had bill looked like the entrance to a coal mine. they were chopping wood on site, setting it up so they could create a hole that was safe for them to burrow into so that they could reach into this mother and child. one of two children, one child

died while underground. but this is just absolutely amazing to watch, and it astonished me, because what would've been hearing from experts sam was at 72 hours is the golden window when you can expect to still find people alive. but stories like that give rescue workers hope. and that is why we are still, today, as a couple of minutes ago, hearing these rescue workers telling everyone to be quiet. because they still expect to hear voices from underneath the rubble just like those people that we're hearing when i first got here to turkey on monday. sam. >> nbc's matt bradley, live from turkey, thank you for your invaluable reporting on this unfolding tragedy. switching now to other matters, don't call it a balloon, but the u.s. has shot down a second high altitude object. we will speak with former ambassador of china or, gary, lock on the potential implications of it. this is velshi. s velshi ber.

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plane, it's not superman or a balloon, or a ship with little green men from mars, at least we don't think it's that. but yesterday, the u.s. military shot down what the pentagon is calling a quote, high altitude object, flying at 40,000 feet over american airspace in alaska. notably officials aren't saying which comfy tree owns the object. they also aren't calling it a balloon, i like the chinese spy balloon that the military shot down on sunday. after that and traversed over parts of the continental usa last week. we now know the balloon is part of a chinese surveillance balloon fleet, which has been observed in more than 40 countries across five continents. joining me to discuss this is gary locke, served as u.s. ambassador to china from 2011 through 2014. the first chinese american to do so. he's also a former u.s.

commerce secretary, and a former governor of washington. ambassador, this, whatever you want to call, it is coming at a pivotal moment in u.s. china relations. china is taking a rather aggressive approach in responding to the situation, dismissing it, then being argumentative with the u.s. continuing to call the spy balloon a civilian airship used for meteorological purposes. what is your assessment of what's happening now? is this all relatively new, or was this going on during the obama administration? i get the i guess the third question is what do you think this means for future u.s. china relations? >> first of all, it appears that the u.s. military intelligence community are now being able to track these things, and go back over years and years of singles and determined that the chinese have been using these balloons, spy apparatus, for quite some

time over many countries. and even during the trump administration. but they weren't able to detect them since then the technology, what they've been able to piece together, they've been able to backtrack and say wow, these things have occurred more than they ever thought. but what's really important is that we know it's a spy balloon, the chinese will of course deny it the same way that the united states denied that we had a spy airplane with a human pilot in it going over russia in 1960. we said it was just for collecting weather information, the russians shot it down, we still kept saying it was only four weather collection until the russians collected the debris and the pilot, and he confessed. what the chinese are saying is absolutely normal, they have to save face, they're gonna deny that they're involved in espionage in the same way that we will deny that were deny that were involved in spying on china. we have airplanes it come very close to the border of china,

listening in to the interior of china, and of course, but we stay away, because we know that airplanes can be shot down, and we don't want to risk the lives of our pilots. and because we actually have high altitude satellites, virtually all major countries of the world has high altitude satellites spying on each other. so it's somewhat ironic that the chinese are still using this low tech method of surveillance. >> maybe they're doing both, right? the low tech and high tech. i want to ask you about what you just said though, if a lot of this is just performative, a performative outrage, did it make sense, or does it make sense for us diplomatically to respond the way we have? i'm talking about secretary blinken canceling his trip over china? was not a wife's move? >> it had to be done, there was no way that the united states could continue to go forth with that trip. and the same thing happened when the russians shot down our

u2 airplane with garry powers, the pilot in, it back in 1960. that incident happened shortly after a meeting of khrushchev and eisenhower. and it was an indication of a thawing of relations, and there was a high-level summit that was planned just weeks or months after the downing of the u2 plane. that had to be canceled as well. so no, this is a normal reaction, it was very in your face operation by the chinese. and so we had to express our outrage, and we had to cancel that visit. let's hope they'll be able to resume that visit sometime in the future because despite the huge differences between the united states and china over military ambitions, around taiwan, human rights trade policies, nonetheless, the united states and china are so interdependent economically, so much of what we buy in our

daily lives, in stores, costco, target, walmart, home depot, nordstrom, are made in china. and we are farmers, so much depends on selling what we grow to the people of china, but more importantly, we need to work together to address climate change, we need to work together to try and stop north korea from developing an operational nuclear weapon. >> let me jump in there, because you know it's very evident that our domestic politics has drifted solely in one direction. there is no price to pay for being too aggressive, and too hard on china. it wasn't always this, way especially in the democratic party. there used to be a threat of foreign policy that said, no you need to work with china to open them up as a society. so that they do not drift towards our adversaries. do you feel like our domestic political perceptions of china have gone too far in the anti-china direction? >> well you know this is an issue that has been brought up by democrats and republicans

and every election candidates for president, on both sides, will say we need to get tougher on china. because the united states, and our businesses, and many people in countries of policy makers from around the world feel that china has not lived up to its promises when it entered the wto. when the western country opened their borders to products coming from china, and china was supposed to reciprocate on a slower pace, but nonetheless, they were supposed to reciprocate and open up their borders to foreign investment to products by western countries being sold in china. a lot of that still is not occurred, and of course, issues of theft of intellectual property, copying our goods, our products. and there's been a long simmering frustration of china, both parties have been getting tough. but it was both parties that really welcome china coming -- it was a republican of course, president nixon that first went to china and started the

engagement with china. so a lot of hopes on both sides, but a lot of disappointment on both sides. >> all right, i could spend a lot more time talking to, you but we do have to go, thank you ambassador gary locke, former u.s. ambassador to china. still ahead, we're on the ground in ukraine, with an update on russia's intensifying winter offensive. winter offensive

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its attacks on ukraine's already battered infrastructure ahead of the one year anniversary of the invasion. yesterday explosions were heard across ukrainian capital of kyiv, officials say they targeted several high voltage facilities, disrupting the country's power supply. we now know that president biden will be returning to the region at the end of the month, to mark the one year since the start of the war. the president will arrive in poland on february 20th, and spend a few days meeting with leaders, including polish president. joining me now live from ukraine is nbc news foreign correspondent, ralph sánchez, let's start with the pace of russia's winter offensive. what are you seeing about it and what does it mean for the future months? >> sam, we're seeing the russians attacking in a slow grinding way along some 800

miles of the fronts here in eastern ukraine. questions for weeks where there will see some kind of surprise attack in the russians, maybe in the, south down in kherson, maybe in the north where they tied to take kyiv again? having failed to do so in the early days of the war. so far that hasn't happened, it doesn't mean it won't happen, but so far the russians have focused on those two key provinces of donetsk and luhansk. the same provinces that they have been fighting in for months now. they are advancing slowly, but they are advancing, in some cases a couple hundred yards a day. they are losing a lot of troops, but they are also inflicting major casualties on the ukrainians as they advance the fighting most intense in that eastern city of bakhmut, where ukrainian forces are holding on, basically by their fingernails at this point. the real fear for the ukrainians's any day, the russians will cut the road west out of bakhmut, and that will be their last avenue for

getting supplies into the city. it may make their position unsustainable. sam, the big question here is who's side's time on. right? the russians are hoping that they have such in advance, such manpower that if they can keep up this grinding fight, if they can wear ukrainians down that that will work out for them, ukrainians are hoping that if they can just hold on they're gonna get those nato weapons, beginning with western battle tanks, german leopard 2 tanks, onto the battlefields they're hoping that will produce a major advantage for them for them. i'll tell you the one year anniversary of this warm, is looming heavily over both sides. sam. >> i imagine, thank you so, much nbc raf sanchez's, live from kharkiv ukraine. we appreciate it. this time next week -- we'll be back in ukraine to mark one year from the russian invasion, will host this show and the primetime hours next week. live from ukraine, starting

february 18th, at 10 am eastern. he will not want to miss it. velshi it's also moving to a later time slot next week. starting next saturday and sunday, velshi will be airing from 10 am to noon, that's 10 am to noon. set your timers, your alarms, refit your everything. now, right after the break, many lawmakers at last week's state of the union address wore black and white pants that said 1870. a deep dive on the significance of that year, and the long fight for police reform in america. that's coming up next. coming up next. ♪breeze driftin' on by...♪ ♪...you know how i feel.♪ you don't have to take... [coughing] ...copd sitting down. ♪it's a new dawn,...♪ ♪...it's a new day,♪ it's time to make a stand. ♪and i'm feelin' good.♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd... ...medicine has the power to treat copd... ...in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler,... ...trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours,

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tradition among members of congress, toward something that sends a message during the state of the union. joe biden's address on tuesday, that was no different. senators elizabeth warren, may see her, anna patty murray, and others were emphasizing the

importance of affordable childcare. senator ed martin wore a pain applied by -- presented by planned parenthood, april -- representative maxwell frost wore a pain from march for our lives, the student led movement to combat gun violence. and quote, a pin to signal to urge to show the need for action and climate change. many lawmakers, democrats and republicans, war pains and accessories showing the colors yellow and blue. in support for ukraine. there were also these pins showing the number 1870. warned by many members of the black congressional caucus. another and other democrats. new jersey representative bonnie watson coleman distributed the pains with a small car that ride, in part, quote, 153 years later, nothing has changed. and quote. 1870, a rep it represents the year henry truman was shot and

killed by police in philadelphia. his murder was the first instance on a record of an unarmed free black person being killed by the police. this was a period of reconstruction. 1870 was also the year a black man gain the right to vote. seven years after president lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation 1863. violence against black people was not new, of course, it was being documented by governments for the first time around then. in 1870, 1871, a series of bills were passed to protect the rights of black americans. one of them was called the quote, kkk act. in short, they kkk act says that americans have the right to sue government officials for violating the civil rights as established in the 14th amendment. but because of an emphasis on state rights, that bill was

largely ignored from 90 years. until 1961. when the supreme court took up a case called monroe a vp. that case pointed to the kkk act and ruled individuals did have the right to sue officials, namely police officers, who violated their civil rights. after that ruling, the number of civil police misconduct, it rose quickly. law enforcement officers and government officials raise concerns that the suits against officers would dissuade people from joining law enforcement. another resulting settlements would bankrupt officers and eventually vendor up municipalities. so, six years later, the supreme court invented qualified immunity. a protected officers from a civil suit if they could prove that they were acting in good faith. after years of strength inkling that and unity, the law has come under intense scrutiny

with critics saying, it protects almost any officer that can claim, the way they violated someone's constitutional rights has not been, quote, clearly established by law. indeed, today, qualified immunity makes it incredibly difficult to hold officers accountable, unless they are criminally charged. since 2015, only about 2% of police officers in fatal shootings are charged, let alone convicted. that's according to reporting by vox. for years, including the last congress, qualified immunity has been one of the main issues holding back police reform. now congressman bonnie watson coleman will join us after a quick break to discuss it all. after a quick break to discuss it all. quick break to discuss it all. (einstein) i got what i paid for. not so smart. (cecily) nah, you're still a genius. but, there is a smarter way to save. (einstein) oh?! (cecily) switch to verizon! and get a new iphone 14 pro and apple watch, on them. (vo) yep. right now get iphone 14 pro and apple watch se, on us. that's a value of up to $1200.

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about the significance of the year 1870 in america's long quest for a police reform. since the murder of george floyd at the hands of police in may of 2020, congress has ripley to try to pass a police reform bill called the george floyd justice and policing act. it has never reach the senate, and a key reason negotiations broke down was the ongoing disagreements about a proposal to end qualified immunity. and democrats in congress plan to reintroduce the george floyd police and justice act yet again.

joining me now is democrat congressman moment of new jersey. the member of the appropriations committee and the congressional black caucus, she distributed the 1870s pins that you may have seen on the members of congress at the state of the union address on tuesday. congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us. we went through the significance of the 1870 date, i am sort of curious, what inspired you in the wind up for this year state of the union address to use that symbol and distribute those tens? >> well, we have the latest killing of tyre, and it was a further reminder of how we continue to go through these experiences, have a moment of silence, a moment of mourning, congress recognizing that something needs to be done but then not doing what it needs to do. quite frankly, i am tired of mourning. i needed to do something to

remind people of the moment that we were in. out of a conversation with my stuff, someone researched the situation with mr. -- back in 1870, we talked about the fact that in 2022, the 1176 people that we know were killed at the hands of police, and that is not all of them because there is no central database. i wanted to do something to remind people, i wanted to sort of prompt a conversation, i want to prompt a question, and i think by putting 1870 on a button and wearing it at the state of the union, it would prompt people to say, hey, what is that? we can start by telling them about henry truman, and we could talk about the need to finish our job with regard to police reform. >> this prompted a conversation, and certainly educated a lot of

people, myself included, the question is, the second part, will it prompt legislative action? i don't need to speak to be a cynic, though it's in my nature, it does strike me that there is a very strong possibility that you, and everyone in congress, will end up in the same spot that we have been in time and time again, which is a call for legislative action, but no bill signed into law. what is different about it this time? >> i think what is different is that we have a recent experience with it happening again. we have the state of the union speak for the president, raise the issue as a problem for all of us. he introduced nicholas stanley, the faith that the whatever mother happens the something getting him out of the tragedy. i don't know that we get it

through, but let me tell you, it's not something we will give up. it takes a long time, sometimes, for justice to be realized. we recognize and the black caucus, and among many members of congress, that without consequences and accountability and police enforcement reform initiatives, we are not going to have that justice. we as black mothers are going to worry about our children, black men, even black women standing on a corner, walking down the street, being a neighborhood, being in a park, riding in a car, standing at a stoplight. i'm so, this is something we have to continue to fight for, this is something we have to continue to raise with those who have not been willing to engage with the important issue of police reform. particularly, the issue of qualified immunity. without consequences and -- you are not going to get

change. you will not get change. >> i will ask you, that use the word accountability, right? police reform has two components, number one is on the front and, and you put resources into departments, can you reorientate how they look at the crime? how they treat suspects? and you put cameras on officers? on the other end, there is accountability. what happens if something bad happens. like in the case with george floyd, can you provide accountability and legal sense of the word? can you support a bill, a police reform bill, i put that in quotation marks, that cannot have some reforms to qualified immunity? >> i don't want to say yes or no, because i will take it forward movement, but i know that the job is not done unless there are consequences. those consequences have to be felt individually and collectively by the entity that employees the well enforcement

officer abusing the power, and law enforcement officer. we have to invest in training and retraining, helping our police to understand what it means to protect and serve. individuals that may or may not look like them, but have the same humanity, the same right, and the same expectations of being protective and served by the law enforcement. some, i'm not going to ever say never, ever. i will continue to work to move forward, plays accountability. i think that it's important we have a database. i think it's important that those who violate the rights and safety and security of people that they have been called to protect,, they don't need to be employed. they don't need to go from one law enforcement agency to another. i think we need to invest more in how we frame our new police officers, and how we recruit

them, and how we vet them. there is a lot that needs to be done to ensure that we have a fairer situation, a greater expectation of safety and security in the block community in particular. >> that is absolutely true. it is incredibly complex, delicate. i want to thank you for coming to try to unpack it in a short period of time. representative bonnie watson coleman. democrat of new jersey. appreciate your time. that's it for me, i will be back here tomorrow. i'm sorry, yes, i'm coming back. in from my friend ali velshi. another reminder before we go. starting next weekend, though she is coming to you at a new time slot, saturdays and sundays from 10 am to noon eastern. when you tune in next week at 10 am eastern, ali velshi will be live on the ground in ukraine as the world prepares to mark the one year of the russia invasion. wife on the ground, starting