happened after he hosted a controversial, one way to describe it, dinner at mar-a-lago with kanye west and nick fuentes. then he revived his election grievances on truth social. calling for the termination of all rules, even those found in the constitution. trump's return to the national political landscape reminded people including republicans of how divisive he was. helped open the door for other gopers to seriously consider running against him. nikki haley, former south carolina governor who served as the united nations ambassador to the trump administration, she said to formally enter the race this wednesday. on that announcement, scheduled to travel to new hampshire, and then to iowa. those are two early primary states. for a prospective candidates that they often visit. another trump administration official, that will be former vice president mike pence. we'll also take a trip to iowa this week. adding to speculation that he

too intense or runs against his former boss. florida governor ron desantis presidential ambitions are less clear right now. he has emerged as trump's most formidable foe thanks to skyrocketing popularity among republican voters. other republicans rumored to be considering a run, they include former maryland governor larry hogan, trump's former secretary mike pompeo. new jersey governor chris sununu. with a republican afield already getting crowded, the key question is, will 2024 be a repeat of the 2016 election. could we end up with trump as a republican nominee again because of the splintered field? joining me now is hayes brown, who is a columnist and editor of msnbc daily. also with us is michelle goldberg, she pulitzer prize-winning columnist for the new york times and msnbc political analyst. let's start with you. let's start of this course about trump in 2016.

huge field of republicans splintering the field. he marched through it. could this be a repeat of too many people getting in 2024? >> i think that if i'm donald trump, the more people who are in, it the better. because so long as he holds the plurality of the voters. if he can just keep repeating 2016. i hesitate to call it a strategy but the way he won in 2016 by just sort of marching down the field. gaining primary victory after primary victory. not necessarily large margins or even a majority. a splintered field, if he can keep that plurality of the base together. he will advance in the gop primaries. and once he starts gaining delegates, he will start to look at it again. that's all you want in 2015. i can see without republicans trying to target him. without trying to -- tell east separate themselves in a way that make a distinct. i can see trump going for a

repeat of that. i would not be surprised. we saw it in 2020. he tried to repeat in 2016 campaign. no reason he wouldn't do it again in 2024. >> i was gonna say. part of the problem with 2016 was every republican wanted to attack each other but not trump. they were all vying to be the last person standing and then none of them were left standing. michelle, i want to switch to the democratic side of the aisle here. you wrote an essay for the times called biden's a great president. he should not run again. provocative headline but a compelling case you made recent polls show you are not alone, actually and thinking this. why do you think democrats are turning away from biden? to a person, that they would all say he succeeded expectations as president. but they're not really in love with the idea of him running for reelection. what's the case there? >> the case is pretty simple. it's that he's going to be 82. he's 80 years old right now. i think if you look at the poll that you cited before. about the democrats who don't

want him to run again. the same poll shows pretty overwhelming approval of how he's performed as president. this isn't a rejection of his record. i think most democrats would agree that he's been a great or even phenomenal president who's accomplished a huge amount, given the extremely tight constraints of kind of barebones senate majority. i don't say lightly that he should -- first of all, it's a huge thing to ask of someone to step aside from reaching their lives ambition. also, it's a huge thing for democrats to give up the powers of incumbency and kind of having someone who has shown that they can beat donald trump. i really worry, though, if the nominee is not donald trump and you have an 82-year-old nominee standing next to desantis who is going to be 46. in a country that is desperate

for change and enamored with youth. i think democrats could find themselves in a sort of wondering why they didn't listen to the intuitions of their own voters. >> michelle, let me push back a second. isn't this argument just sort of distillation of valuing style over substance? the concession is biden's been really good and should he not be rewarded for the substance? >> i would say two things. i don't think you elect someone president as a reward. you like someone president to serve you. i also think that -- there's a way in which style and substance can overlap. again, i don't think that joe biden is too old to perform as president. i do think that his age gets in the way of him performing as a candidate. his state of the union it blew a lot of people away. i thought it was excellent. if he does that 50 more times in the course of a campaign, i

will concede that i was wrong. as somebody who's seen biden a lot are least done, his performance is a very uneven. when you talk to people who are in focus groups, outside -- partisan democrats, you don't think he is simply too old. he's going to prove over and over again that he's not too old. then there's the actuarial concerns. i think most people would agree. 82 years old is -- he can step away in a valedictory way. having kind of accomplished his goals and he's often said that he wants to be a bridge to the next generation. there is a lot of people ready to cross that bridge. >> let's pick up their. isn't the issue here who is the next generation? one of the concerns that you get when you talk to democrats. it's about who follows biden if he steps down. the obvious choice would be the

vice president, kamala harris. there's a lot of concerns about her ability to run a campaign and serve as president as well. is the psyche of the democratic party problem here, in forcing biden to basically stay in that place and run again for reelection? >> i think part of it is. when you look at that poll. -- say biden should run again. the alternative, if he were to go deeper into the polling and see who do you want instead? there is no real clear consensus. at least the gop side. you can say rhonda sentences clear second place to donald trump. you don't have that on the democratic side as far as i see. which is not great if you're kamala harris looking at the poll for one. it would make me hesitant as well if i were a democratic politician who was thinking about trying to run against biden in 2024. the other thing is that no one wants to be the person who is

-- candidate in the kennedy versus cardiff situation that helped ronald reagan come into office. help to be calm or be a one term president. no one wants to be the person who goes up against the incumbent and while they might've frame it as just want to make sure the issues are talked about. one make sure that we had the best candidate possible. in the event of a loss, they will be blamed in fall 2024 should biden win the nomination again and people say he was weakened by this primary fight. no one wants to be that guy. >> michelle, just to pick up on that. many of president biden supported 2020 -- now, really, honestly argue that he's just the best democrat. maybe the only democrat that could beat donald trump. i'm guessing you do not buy that argument. secondarily, the flip side of this is how do you think biden would fare against someone who's not donald trump.

well, i think that that may very well have been true. i don't think that anybody should challenge biden if he runs. i think that it would be the best thing for the party if he decided not to run. and there was gonna be an open primary. so i think that that's the problem. i think he probably beat donald trump again. donald trump is going to be 78. the age related attack isn't nearly as sharp as it used to be which is not seeing a huge amount. i don't think that the related attack on biden would be that effective. in a trump biden rematch. i think that there is a lot of reasons to think the republican primary 2020 -- sorry, 2024 is not gonna go the way it went in 2016. i would be more worried about biden against a younger, fresher candidate who might

espouse a version of trumpism that doesn't carry baggage. >> to all you oxygen or is out there, we love you, we're sorry for this conversation. hayes brown, columnist another for the msnbc daily. michelle goldberg, columnist for the new york times. appreciate the inside and the great conversation. still ahead on velshi. the latest on what has been shot out of the sky and the u.s.. now also in canada. plus, straight from one of the republicans favorite presidents, ronald reagan. the quote. what's close the unproductive tax loopholes that allowed some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. where has that sentiment gone? first, right up to the break, we're live in turkey with the latest on the dire rescue missions after the devastating earthquake there. stay with us. stay with us something... huge. ant-man and the wasp have arrived. spend $30 on your next visit to ihop and get a fandango movie ticket to see marvel studios' ant-man and the wasp: quantumania.

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underway throughout turkey and syria as the death toll from last week's earthquakes continue to rise. altogether, there are more than 28,000 confirmed deaths across turkey and syria. rescuers are miraculously still pulling survivors from the rubble. the world health organization says it delivered 37 tons of emergency medical supplies to syria yesterday. another 30 tons of supplies are expected to arrive today. meanwhile in turkey, president erdogan says hundreds of thousands of buildings in the region have been structurally compromised. officials there are plenty certainly building in the coming weeks. he also announced that his administration plans to crack down on looters and people committing other crimes in the wake of the earthquakes. nbc's matt bradley is in turkey. and matt, even with -- witnessing rescues all week. what more so have you seen since we spoke yesterday? >> we saw this morning, a

startling rescue after six days. more than six days. actually, this was something that was startling even to the people that are doing the digging. this was -- we saw one just as we arrived. we were understood that the turks had dug out several other people just before that. look behind me, you'll see actually off here there are americans up there now. if you can just barely see their usaid badges. they are working hand in hand with the turks to try to find waving people. i spoke with them and they said we are taking our directions from the turks. the turks are in the league. they do need help but they have all the capabilities. their overall by the situation. this is a situation out overwhelm even the most prepared, even the wealthiest governments. it is just a sprawling disaster zone. stretches from where i am all the way to the western part of the country. again, of, course into syria. a place that is very difficult for us to report from. very difficult for aid to

reach. i spoke with some of the americans were working here. the turks to that after those for three or four people who they taken out just this morning. a startling, unimaginable -- since those initial tremors. one of those women who was taken out so that she had been in touch speaking to people who are in this massive pile behind me. that's why a lot of investigators, the rescue workers are still hoping -- holding out hope to find someone alive. i spoke with a woman a moment ago. they said they can appeal and they can sense using their instruments and just by walking around, they can feel cavities underneath the ground. they put instruments into those cavities they're trying to see if there's anybody in them. it's hard to know. hard to know if there's anybody still alive. a lot of these are obviously just empty caverns. some of them contain dead bodies. others contain people, people who may or not be conscious. a myriad of able to respond or shout out and call for help. even if they could, they might not be heard.

that's where their dogs are on hand. those sensitive instruments. to that i've seen today are sending devices that are used to try to basically put a microphone inside. another one is a heat sensor to try to sense body heat. one of the american investigators -- american rescue workers from los angeles county. he told me that actually some of these people might have survived with just sub-zero temperatures that we've been seeing every single night since the earthquake. because those small caverns, those cavities can actually insulate. how else could you survive? could be drinking you're in, he said in. order to basically provide water. there is no water and the level, the window for being able to survive when you have no water is really not much longer than 72 hours. when you talk about going on a week now. that's when we'll see by 4 am tomorrow morning. it will be in a week. we're going to start to see once again, we've been seeing this time and time again, the expectations of survivors plummeting.

sam. >> truly tragic situation behind you. thank you for your reporting. nbc's matt bradley live from turkey. a programming note. starting next saturday, february 18th, ali will be live from ukraine. he'll host velshi on saturday and sunday. you can catch him in some primetime coverage during the week as well. all starts on saturday at 10 am eastern. that's a new time slot for velshi. also starting next week, velshi will be alive on saturday since sunday's from 10 am to noon eastern. he isn't the only one. katie phang show will kick off morning coverage at 8 am eastern and then at 9 am, you can get more jonathan kaye part with the premiere of the saturday show. still ahead. cheers to the super bowl weekend. i'm channeling my inner rihanna there. it's a historic super bowl weekend it. we'll talk about it all after a quick break. quick break. ant-man and the wasp have arrived. spend $30 on your next visit to ihop

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in nfl history, and for the first time in the 57 super bowls, two black starting quarterbacks will compete for the championship title. kansas city chiefs led by patrick mahomes will face off against the philadelphia eagles were led by jim hurts. despite black players making up the majority of the nfl, leadership positions including quarterbacks and coaches have disproportionately fallen to white men. since the nfl began to desegregate in the 1950s, the sport has become dominated by talented black players enough. elsa nearly 60% black. and yet, about 20% of quarterbacks are black. nbc news correspondent nail it charles took a deeper look at the history of struggle and the incremental progress in the nfl. >> patrick mahomes and jalen hurts are making super bowl history. two black quarterbacks will lead their teams in the super bowl for the first time.

>> i think it's history. i think it's something that's being worthy of being noted. it is history. come a long way. >> since the nfl's first temperature 1920, there haven't been many black starting quarterbacks. even if you are have made it to the super bowl stage. >> the first whatever when the big game, doug williams 1988. >> historical moment for the nfl. for football fans across the world. >> do you think it took too long to get there? >> way too long. i think if you -- nfl's over 100 years old. >> over the majority of nfl players are black now, the leadership positions have historically been re-surfer white men. 1920, fits parlor -- started in the league's inaugural championship. by 1933, after the last two black players left the league, it banned black players. >> there was this understanding that we're going to be like baseball. not gonna have any black in the league. >> the vandal slipped in 13 years later.

even then, when historians call racial stacking came into play. >> positional prejudice. there were no black quarterbacks. no blacks centers. no black middle lineman. >> the stigma has always been if the leadership position. the myth that a black i can't think. the >> problem continued into the 2000s. from 2001 to 2010, only six of the 27 quarterbacks selected in the person of the draft for black. even that was too many for some. >> i think what we had here is a little social concern in the nfl. the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback to do well. >> this year, the most black starting quarterbacks in history. 11. >> for me, this is total jubilation. >> on the sidelines, only three black head coaches. >> why do you think that is? >> that's a question that's, easy answer. the owner is gonna make a decision. >> there's never been a black nfl team owner. but now, of fans and athletes both former and presidents are taking in this historic moment

of progress. as the entire nation gets ready for some football. >> who are you rooting for? >> i can't lose. >> in phoenix, iowa charles, and we see news. >> that was great. joining me now is the sports psychologist professor emerita, sociology at uc berkeley. dr. harry edwards. dr. edwards has been working in sports activism for more than 50 years and he has worked alongside athletes organizing and some advising of the most widely recognized sports protests in history. dr. edwards, thank you so much. is this historic moment indicative of, i guess, a real shift towards equity in the nfl for players of color? or have we sort of stumbled upon a coincidence that there are two black quarterbacks in the super bowl? >> eventually, you're gonna have two black quarterbacks in the super bowl because that even a mix which generated the rise of the black quarterback. this situation is -- absolutely nothing in terms of

the seat change and far the situation is concerned. the fact that we're talking about two quarterbacks points to -- have the position. i've heard mentioned being made of two white quarterbacks starting and nfl super bowl. we have a look at that. we have to understand that we have a black quarterbacks. not because there's been a sea change in this position attitude overutilization of the position. but because of the change and the game which put an emphasis upon passing as opposed to running. that generated a counter response on the defensive side which gave us the sack artist, the pass rusher. increasingly, the most important, the most enhanced position on the field. the highest paid position on the field was under attack and despite all of the protections that they try to build in for the pocket passer, the reality was that you not only have to have mobility, pocket mobility.

you have to have us capability. what that meant was that the tradition of the best athlete being the quarterback in black coach or, that became very important. all of a sudden, we have all of these black quarterbacks being brought to the floor that we see today. it gave us the black quarterbacks wasn't a sea change in attitude towards race and that position. what gave us the black quarterback was launch -- reggie white, charles -- kevin greene. and today, of course, nick bosa, micah parsons and so forth. that is what gave us the black quarterback. if the game changes, we could lose that in the same sense. that in 2006, there were two black head coaches in the super bowl. tony dungy and love east smith. six black coaches in the league last year. leading into the super bowl. there are three black coaches one of, them got fired after one a year. that does happen to be levy smith. this portends nothing.

i hope that everybody will enjoy the game. i hope that the referees will make great decisions in terms of when to use a quarterback in the pocket and when he's a running back outside. how did they'll make great decisions. i hope that everybody gets out healthy. >> i hear you. true equity comes when we are actually having these conversation because it's just so normal. >> absolutely. >> i'm also interested in your theory here that the rise of the black quarterback is sort of a market based demand. you need someone with mobility because pass rushing has become so prioritized. are there are steps, though, that the nfl as an institution, as a governing body could take. maybe not for a black quarterback but for black coaches. we obviously know the nfl has struggled with the systems as put in place to encourage teams to hire black coaches. are there certain steps you would like them to take going for that could maybe create more equity from the top down? >> we have to understand that

real progress, we have to the social progress and change. real progress this come about only when african americans have had transactional leverage in a seat at the table. to the extent that it's been generated by business concerns and those processes that are already in trickle to what brought us to the point that these became issues. then nothing will change. i think that we have not developed the transactional leverage to create in the coaching office is the same kinds of the name extent we have in the locker room that have given us over 70% black players in the locker room on to the demands of the game. in the same sense that we have the black quarterback because these owners got tired of having the highest paid player, at the most significant player on the field at being in a tub, knocked out for the season and so for. they had to have somebody with

not just pocket mobility but athletic escapability. that's when you get a patrick mahomes or a lamar jackson. patrick mahomes has not only has shown its capability, he's almost from balls around corners now. that is what gave us the black quarterback. i don't see that happening with the black coaching situation. we're going to be in a situation where black coaches as long as the positions are racialized. coaching is going into the opposite direction. there's a tendency now to hire young, white coaches. that does not portend well for blacks having access to that position. >> this is been a fascinating conversation. i hear you on all points. hope you do it for the game tonight and thank you very much. harry edwards, professor americas of sociology at university of california berkeley. right after the break. we have an update on all of those unidentified flying objects.

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down another unidentified objects. this time, over canada. canadian prime minister justin trudeau announced yesterday that an unidentified cylindrical object was being tracked over canada's yukon territory. in a tweet, he said that canadian and u.s. aircraft

scramble to respond. that a u.s. f 22 successfully shot the object down. canadian forces are working on the recovery of the wreckage for analysis. at this time, its purpose in origin are unclear. meanwhile, the u.s. continues to its recovery efforts in northern alaska. another hail to do the airborne object was shut down on friday. pentagon officials say that object was first spotted on thursday. traveling north east across the state. it's been described as about the size of a small car. there are new details about the origin, capabilities or purpose of this flying object either. u.s. officials are fairly certain about the first object shut down last week was a chinese surveillance balloon. the chinese airship was taken down off the coast of south carolina last saturday. the u.s. is still in the process of recovering the debris. with more, i am joined by -- cooper, pulitzer prize-winning

pentagon correspondent for the new york times, she's also an msnbc political analyst. good to see you again. this is now the third unidentified objects shot down over north america. when we talk yesterday, there were three. this is now the third in one week. what is the mood inside the pentagon right now? >> good morning, sam. hard to believe we're doing this again. same story every day. the pentagon -- by contacts with the pentagon yesterday, both surreal and hilarious. because we started out the day focused, i started out the day focus very much on the second object and what was happening and what we've learned from it. only to be told by the pentagon that the recovery objects and the object the -- recovery effort for the object

i was shut down over alaska, over deadhorse, alaska, was going to take a while because it's so cold up there. you are dealing with a, through dealing with snow ice. you are dealing with ice as well. for some conditions. it takes time. i rode out my little story. this is going to take time and no sooner did i do that then we learned that there is a third object now that was about to be shot down over canada. at that point, you just flip out. -- invasion. i am told by many people at the pentagon. you guys are worried about that. that they don't think it's aliens. i can't believe i just said that on tv. >> gotta check that box, helene. gotta make sure. >> exactly. there is one theory. let me first preface this by saying i don't know. we don't know at this point

what the czar. one theory is that which is looking a lot harder now. they push to declassify a lot of these programs. lot of these things were classified in the past as unidentified aerial phenomena. they were part of this ufo program that was filled with extreme secrets -- secrecy. we're now looking a lot more. we're especially looking a lot harder. we're much more -- almost hyperaware right now, because of the chinese spy balloon. that's one theory. it's just a theory. another theory is that maybe this is an adversary of the united states that's probing our defenses and pro wing trying to figure out just how soon it we see things. when do we see things? what kind of actions we take? maybe it's something completely different. these are all just speculative theories at the pentagon people are working around the clock. we do have to realize that

because these things have been shot down over frozen, arctic territory at the moment. it's kind of hard -- recovery effort is not gonna be as fast as we might want. >> i want to choose the idea that we're just being hypervigilant now. as opposed to their shifts way more unidentified flying objects now hovering over our airspace. thank you very much, helene cooper. i hope we're not even the same thing next week. pentagon correspondent, helene cooper. thank you so much. let's play a game. who said this? we're going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allowed somebody -- to avoid paying their fair share. is it president biden or is that former president ronald reagan? the answer after the break. answer after the break fall asleep naturally, plus extended-release b-vitamins. wake up feeling refreshed. pure zzzs. sleep better. wake up your best.

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unprecedented times, as we now perpetually do, is that debates and conversations about policy tends to get sideline. this was a really great week for policy. president biden effectively launched his reelection campaign with the state of the union address, laying out his successes and priorities, and called out some republicans for his positions on economic issues and entitlements. republicans largely objected to this, but they also in this conversation, served to highlight how far they republican party has moved on some key issues. here is one. take a listen to this bit of president biden's state of the union address that deals with tax policy. >> i think a lot of you at home agree with, me and many people, that you know the tax system is not fair. it is not fair. >> i am a capitalist, but pay your fair share. >> award, work not just. wealth passed my proposal for

the billionaire minimum tax. there's 1000 billionaires in america, about 600 the beginning of the time. but no billionaire should be paying a lower tax rate than a schoolteacher or firefighter. >> let's finish the job, close a loophole to allow the very wealthy to avoid paying their taxes. >> that was president biden calling for taxing the rich. sounds, i guess to, sound like i woke a socialist leftist fantasyland. take a listen to what the former st. joe publican had to say on the very same, topic back in 1985. >> we're gonna close the unprotected tax loop it allows the very wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. some of those loopholes were in theory understandable. and in, practice they sometimes made it possible for billionaires to pay nothing west river's pay 10% of his salary. and that's great. it's time we stopped. >> that was ronald reagan.

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politics and policy. joining me now to discuss it all is eugene scott senior politics reporter at axios and sir michael singleton, political strategist and the host of the shermicheal show on sirius xm. shermichael, we'll start with you. >> good morning. >> good morning. happy super bowl. sunday you saw the back-to-back of harrison's before the break of biden and former president ronald reagan. what are do you think the montage sign is about the draft of the republican party over the past 30 years? if it says anything at all? >> it says a lot. it shows how much the party has transition from -- to his current formation. and it is interesting because i get a lot of research with data on how the average american person feels about the irs. it is really interesting because ultimately depends on how the question is asked but when you look at every group from democrats to independents to even individuals who might consider themselves moderately republican, about 40% of

conservative-leaning republicans say that they believe the irs should do more to tax wealthy individuals. so they're clearly not in sync in terms of where the country, is in terms of including its own voters. >> i will switch to you and go back to the state of the union, address which is where we drew that initial biden clip from. i felt that one of the defining elements of that speech was the reaction from the republican, side to the president in realtime. ten years ago or, so joe wilson yelled you lied during one of his addresses, calling a national star and leading to condemnation from within his own party. in this go, around there's a similar reaction to president biden which very much felt like background noise. not much condemnation from republicans out. all talk to me about that sort of shift as well. it is not just a policy shift, it is the total shift have defined the republican party. >> absolutely. a decade ago, joe wilson's behavior was viewed as an outlier, an accident in the

gop. but what we saw this past tuesday from people like marjorie taylor greene and other lawmakers is pretty much in line with where the gop bases right now. and that is part of why mccarthy has so difficult of a time, last month, and getting all of his party members on the same page. because i think it is really important for people to know that marjorie taylor greene is a represented there, and other lawmakers like, are of so many republicans in the gop. she is not on the -- we have seen the chiefs smack dab in censor when it comes to leadership in terms of influence. so we should expect to see more of this moving forward. >> and sure michael, it is kind of interesting because what we are both talking about here is how policy is no longer the defining point of the party. it is an attitude in the. it is how you approach liberals and how you criticize joe biden. what we see is we see it drift on policy because of that. for instance, a major theme in the state of the union address

was entitlements. and then you see, for instance i would love for you both to watch this because it is really indicative. it is a new ad from the democrats. it is on utah senator mike lee. he has thoughts about cutting social security, and his reaction during the state of the union. let us watch him ask a question on the other side for us. >> i am here right now to tell you one thing. that you probably have never heard from a politician. it will be my objective to phase out social security. to pull it up by the roots and get reddit. >> all right. there you have mike lee, formerly really into the idea of approving social security. and then on the, right you have mike lee in the state of the union address feigning shock that joe biden claims some republicans want to cut social security. why not just embrace the past? if you are my, clearly and say, yes i want to reform this entitlement program. i think it's going to go

bankrupt and we need to protect privatized and raise the retirement age. why not just on that? >> sam, because republicans are looking at approval for social security and medicaid, and entitlements program. and they realize that most, americans including or publicans support these statements. they raise that point because if you are, call rick scott on the four released his 11 point plan last, year wanted to sunset all federal programs, which would include social security and medicare. however, just a week or a few days ago, scott came out with a new bill it's entitled, the protect our seniors act, which would essentially protect social security and medicare. we take the dollars aware prove last year for the irs, and transition those funds over those two programs. and we also require that two thirds vote in congress would be necessary in order to make any changes. when you are saying is republicans are looking at the politics and the optics and saying, wait a minute, here we are trying to focus on winning back the house in 2024. we have to change our position

on some key issues. >> eugene pick up on. that how much of this is just sort of the residual impact of donald trump, who quite famously ran in 2016 as a republican who wanted to protect entitlements? and, now in 2023, you heard, that is saying don't put entitlements on the chopping block is part of this -- >> that is certainly what happened and what is happening. but beyond, that to your initial point i think what is happening is that voters, people who send those individuals to washington and state capitals, do not consistently hold people accountable for where they were in the past. as much as where they are right now. so many of these republican lawmakers are not going to be punished or criticize by their most faithful voters. because of what they said yesterday, if where they stand right now is different. we saw this repeatedly with donald trump in the, media very frequently pointing that out. and did not hold him accountable. so many voters did not hold him accountable. so many of these current

lawmakers are hoping that they will receive the same benefits. >> yeah, and typical by that point, for michael, mitch mcconnell went really hard after rick scott. who you mentioned, for his plan. basically said that is not a republican plan. that is a rick scott plan. obviously these two just do not like each other that much. but i am wondering if you see this is something larger. is there an ideological rift happening in the party? is it about personalities? is it a fight over the direction of the party? or so, basically to jean's point, the party moving in one direction towards protecting entitlements? >> i think they are moving in one direction, as pertaining to these particular issues. but to that broader question as it pertains to the consistency and what it means to even be a conservative, i think the parties movements had clearly distinct and different direction. john boehner is gone. you have former house speaker paul ryan, gone.

mitch mcconnell is on his way out. so you are seeing this infighting regarding the intellectual-ism of, how do conservatives to themselves, and what does that definition look like when applied in the legislative process? and i think you have some of the more established right winners saying, wait a minute here, we need to be more consistent than we were, 50 20 years. ago that we have the more populous nationalistic views. people, saying no, we want to completely transform what conservativism it means, how we legislate under that ideological umbrella. i think that 2024 will probably signal it more clearly, the distinction, whether or not rich which element ideologically wins within the, battle sam. >> it is about as wild and beautiful as an abstract art behind you. jane scott, thank you about. eugene, scott senior politics reporter at axios. and shermichael singleton, host of the shermicheal show on sirius xm. that does it for me, thank you for watching velshi. you can catch a velshi and

super important right at 10 am next weekend it is a brand new time slot. the one and only ali velshi will pick up on coverage live from ukraine. one year since the russian invasion began. but to stay right where you are, the sunday show with jonathan capehart begins right now. >> there is something in the air. for the third time in two, weeks a new york fighter that she's done object over north america. this, time over canada. jedi mind tracks, president biden baits republicans into upon his pledge to protect social security and medicare. white house press secretary kareen jean pierre joins me live onset to discuss it all. and, donald trump is still turning over classified material to doj, and gearing up to fight the special counsel subpoena of his former vice president, mike pence.