thank you home for watching the sunday show. before we go, a programming note. starting next weekend, a new morning lineup on msnbc weekends is starting with katie phang at 8 am eastern, velshi at 10 am eastern, and yours truly, as -- 9 am eastern. join me for the premiere of the saturday show at 9 am eastern. will still be on sundays to, but at a new time. watch the saturday show on the sunday show, weekends at 9 am eastern, only on msnbc. be sure to double check and redo your dvr settings. you do not want to miss any of this. now, stay tuned. my friend, alex witt has the latest. hi, alex. >> and i just say, i'm so happy about all of this news. the only sad thing is, you being a dear friend of mine, we're not gonna be right next to me sunday.

i'll be watching you from my office at nine a.m., sunday show, 9 am for the saturday show. i'm always in my office getting ready for the show. so, we'll be with me two days a week. so, that is good. silver lining, it's all good. >> yes. >> very excited about it. okay, my friend, have a good weekend, enjoy getting ready for both days next weekend. thank, you jonathan. >> thank you. >> a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we begin with the breaking news, new questions and concerns this weekend after the u.s. military shot down a high altitude object for the third time in a week. canadian prime minister justin trudeau today said recovery teams are looking for the cylindrical object after a u.s. fighter jet shot it down over the yukon territory on his orders yesterday. canada's defensive history describe the object of smaller but potentially similar to the chinese spy balloon shot down

off the carolina coast last weekend. so, saturdays shootdown came as officials are also bracing to learn more about the mystery object shot down over alaska on friday. earlier today, senate majority leader chuck schumer shared what he learned from a briefing with a national security adviser, that being jake sullivan. >> until a few months ago, we did not know these balloons, intelligence and military did not know. now, they are learning a lot more. and the military and the intelligence are focused like a laser on gathering and accumulating the information. then coming up with a comprehensive analysis of what went on before, what is going on now, and what could go on in the future. >> meanwhile, republicans who were critical of the biden administration's response to the first chinese spy balloon, they are now crediting the quick action taken this weekend, while still expressing concerns. here's republican intelligence committee chair, mike turner, earlier today. >> i would prefer them to be

trigger-happy than to be permissive. we're going to have to begin to look at the united states and airspace as one that we need to defend, and we need to have appropriate sensors to do so. the show some of the problems and gaps we have, we certainly now ascertained that there is a threat. >> well, for more on the third mysterious object, let's go to monica at the white house for us. monika, welcome on this sunday. so, what does the white house really know about the last two objects? and what is left and said about them? >> that is the major question at this hour, alex. we're talking about the ones that were shot down over alaskan water is on friday. the fact is, the terrain there is so treacherous that the recovery efforts, we're learning, are going to be incredibly complicated. it really could take days. this personnel, coming from a combination of the alaska national guard, fbi, local law enforcement, they really have to traverse ice and snow to recover pieces of it. remember, we're talking about here when we discuss this

friday object, we still don't know very much about its origin, its size, it's stated purpose, all of those questions remain unanswered as of right now. but what we do know, it is much smaller compared to the chinese spy balloon, which was shot down last weekend. the smaller pieces maybe a little harder to get. we will wait to hear from the pentagon and what more they can tell us or what story it might show. this other huge news yesterday really came as a surprise. and we learned about it for us from the canadian side, even though these were u.s. fighter jets that were scrambled to now shoot down this other identified object that went down over the sparsely occupied uconn, that is northern canada. now, this happened when the prime minister of canada, justin trudeau, called president biden, they coordinated on all of this saturday afternoon. i'm told the president was first briefed on this friday afternoon and was continually getting updates on both militaries assessed that it should be taken down.

again, we don't have very many details about that object from u.s. officials, but canadian defense minister did say last night that it was cylindrical and shape, and again, smaller than the chinese spy balloon. we do not know yet where this object came from. adding to all of it, this question about what potentially may have happened over montana last night, where the airspace was closed for a period of time by the faa as the department of defense conducted some activities there to see if there was something. ultimately though, saying it is a radar anomaly. they are still investigating a little bit more. so, that is leading a lot of lawmakers now to have questions, including some democrats who are wondering why the biden administration hasn't been more transparent to this point. take a listen. >> i have real concerns about why the administration is not be more forthcoming with everything that it knows. the part of the problem here is that both the second and the third objects were shot down in

very remote areas. so, my guess is, there is just not a lot of information out there yet to share. in absence of information, people will fill that gap with anxiety and other stuff. so, i wish the administration was a little quicker to tell us everything that they do know. was a little quicker tso, theree pressure, of course on the pentagon and white house officials to reveal what they know. the big question right now, alex, do they actually have that information or will the recovery effort be a big part of this story so that can provide more details to the public? >> it probably is either or. we will see. thank you so much, monica, for that. i do want you to stay with me, i'm gonna bring in msnbc national security and intelligence analyst and former cia officer, -- as well as peter baker, msnbc political analyst and chief white house correspondent for the new york times. so, welcome all three of you. peter, you first. because you and i have talked many sundays, not a single time in my memory about an object being shot down or monitored, particularly over north americans guys. now, it's three shut down, a fourth scare in one week.

can you tell us what is going on? what is the best answer you're getting from the administration? >> well, that is a great question, right? the question being, of course, are they sending, are there more people sending objects like this, or basically noticing them, or are they more public? there is a real argument, mark knows better than i would, as to whether not they would've made stuff like this public in the past, they would have instead, had they noticed, it monitored, it kept track of, it and otherwise dealt with it in some way without necessarily making it public. the first one a week ago, of course, it is known as by people in montana, published by the newspaper there. so, they couldn't at that point continue to not mentioned that the public. the other question is, are we simply more able to monitor these than we have in the past? the biggest question to me is, where these other two that have now been shot down in the last 48 hours or so come from? obviously, if there from china, and given the trajectory, it certainly seemed similar knopf to the first, when even though they're not visibly the same types of objects.

if both come are one of them comes from china, and we know that one of them came from china after the shootdown of the first one, it raises all sorts of questions about foreign policy and ruptures in the relationship. it's a very provocative act to continue doing after you've already had one, you know, create such a kerfuffle in the relationship. >> yeah, hugely so. to you, mark, peter's point there, given your long career with the cia, certainly exposed to national security threats. let me ask you the comment on what mike turner had to say, which was that we're gonna have to begin to look at u.s. airspace as one we need to defend and have appropriate sensors to do so, have we not been doing that? >> well, i think there's certainly some politics involved here. the fact is, we certainly have been, you know, defending our airspace. as u.s. technology gets better, you know, perhaps we're getting better analyzing, you know, what is frankly above us.

i think that, you know, overall with this issue, i think all of us can agree that chinese, you know, intelligence collection, chinese espionage is a really significant threat. i think that's a bipartisan piece that will be out there. you know, in terms of what's happening now, there's lots of questions again, as peter noted, something we're better able to collect on, it's been happening for a while, or is it something new? you throw all this on top of the very real fact that we have to talk to the chinese again. in, all of the intelligence -- nobody likes things like this to happen. then it interferes with bilateral relationships. so, i think everyone would prefer this be kept, you know, in the intel world, it has not been. we have to get back to talking to the chinese. no, espionage is the second oldest profession, country span each other, we have to remember that. >> yeah, give me a sense of what these cylindrical objects are, mark? what could they be? >> you know, it could be anything from, you know, weather balloon to a chinese collection tool. we just do not know.

i think one of the things the administration did really well was after the balloon were shot down, they start on the process of authorizing -- that is really smart for a variety of reasons, of course, to stop speculation, it helps in the information operations against the chinese globally. the chinese were embarrassed by this. really, we have to find out what these other incidents were all about. as was noted, you know, the previous things, the weather balloon, we're airing on the side of caution, rather be trigger-happy than a violation of airspace. if it is the chinese, that does open up all sorts of other, you know, diplomatic issues, in terms of provocations. so, you know, the more transparency from the administration, i really think the better. >> so, usually, monika, we get a sense from administration officials if they have a good idea of something, right? apparently they're not ready to say yet. the question is, is this about transparency, to mark's point, or do they just not know? >> well, i think we can look to the chinese spy balloon as a little bit of a tell here.

this is the administration that was not going to make this public from what we can tell, the only reason we knew about it was thanks to the great reporting of our colleague, courtney qb, who was able to break that story. and then the white house in the pentagon ultimately confirmed it. that turned into a real late day odyssey before a shot down. these other objects, i think, the white house is being very careful in their language. we should look to that as well. the fact they are saying, all we can say right now is that it's an object, don't get me more specific than i, i think it does tell you that at the time when they were sharing information, it was more limited than what they could really reveal. it wasn't that they didn't necessarily want to share, it's that they really truly did not know. and until they're able to recover a little bit more from the arctic, which again, is very complicated, and now canadian authorities are gonna go and recover pieces from the yukon of the other object, until i think they get a bit more of a sense there, they do want to be careful. it is this larger question about then this void of information, people wondering if this is something else, why

won't they come out and say, no, it is not that, it's something that could potentially be harmless? that is something that still up in the air. we're hoping to get more information today, alex. >> is there any thought, peter, that you explains why the administration waited to shoot down the chinese spy balloon last weekend and yet acted so quickly in these other two? is it more than the issue of security of americans on the ground, which is what the president said about the chinese spy balloon? these other two entities were over pretty empty places, water, and the frozen eucom. >> he, i haven't seen any evidence that it would dispute but. you know, obviously, there is a question about politics. you know, obviously president biden took a hit politically for waiting to shoot down the chinese spy balloon. it should be remembered that the pentagon and authorities told us they were able to jam or do something, in other words, interfere with the chinese spy balloon in terms of transmitting any kind of intelligence back to china while it was still traversing

the united states. so, in their view, it was not creating in the continuing threat at that point. it didn't make a difference to wait until it got over water to shut it down. in their telling of this. politically, obviously, it looked a little -- to let it continue travel across the united states. i think there's probably some desire to -- sooner, if in fact they deem that to be safe. now, in the case that monica mentioned, certainly the one on friday, i believe one yesterday, they were smaller, obviously they were a little bit more remote areas. the ideas they'd be less dangerous if they did shut them down in those areas. so, if these had been over a more populated part of the continental united states, they might've still waited. but the politics of it make it look different. >> mark, let's take a listen, what the foreign -- said earlier today, here is that. >> when i saw the sites that is flying over, it's very clear to me this was a potential act, it was done with provocation to

gather intelligence data collect intelligence on our three major nuclear sites in this country. why? they're looking at what is our capability in the event of possible future conflicts in taiwan? they're really assessing what we have in this country. >> that is very detailed, very specific. he is linking the china balloon, mark, to gathering nuclear intel for possible taiwan conflict. does that make sense to you? >> well, shirt as. the chinese operate not only balloons, we all have a better sense now of the chinese balloon program. but also chinese satellites as well. you know, there is an explosion of chinese human intelligence gathering capabilities in the united states. all of it of course is designed against our military infrastructure. this is not a surprise at all. i think that ultimately, you know, this is a good wake up call for americans, if we take a look at the national defense strategy, you know, i talked about china's as a threat.

the military have all pivoted towards asia. so, no surprise and what the chinese were trying to do. i think, you know, that said, i do think there is enough time for us to have defensive countermeasures. obviously there were spy planes up, there is talk that there was things that were jammed, the u.s. military facility, you can certainly go dark. there is no emissions coming. out, so while we know the chinese are looking at, i'm fairly confident the intelligence on our side was not that great. that said, he was a very provocative mood. ultimately, the administration took the right move to shoot it down. there was intelligence from watching it and fortunately traverse across the united states. in the intelligence business, we like that more. we want to gather information. he, notion-ing something down early really doesn't serve our purposes in terms of, you know, what we're gonna gather. >> okay, there is a silver lining where there, which i thank you for. mark, also peter baker, monica alba, always a pleasure, guys. thank you. in the meantime, we have this breaking news on the

catastrophic death toll from the earthquake that hit turkey and syria. that number now passing 34,000 people as rescue workers continue a desperate search for survivors. and miraculously continue pulling people out of the rubble. take a look at this new video. it's a rescue worker finding a turkish man who is buried under the rubble for 138 hours. let's go to nbc's matt bradley, joining me again from turkey, with another compelling report. no doubt, matt. we talk about these rescues, their race against time. our aid workers are making progress now where you are? is there any realistic hope of finding more people alive after now a full week of these earthquakes? >> yeah, alex, not only is it realistic, we've seen it ourselves. we saw the other night, we saw this morning, there were four people rescued from this massive pile behind me just this morning. the last one as our team showed up. this wasn't part assisted by americans. what we saw after that was at

least the last woman who was rescued told rescuers that there were other people underneath the rubble. we keep hearing this sort of pattern over and over again, there are other people underneath the rubble, she was communicating with them. her husband, in fact. so, she told rescuers that they needed to go and continue to search underneath the. you cannot see, it's dark. i mean, this is an entire block that's leveled here. she said that there is someone there. the americans, and the turkish partners, actually the turks, they're in the league. i should say the turks leading the americans, they spent the next several hours trying to search for someone still living underneath the rubble. they brought in dogs, they brought in sounding equipment, they brought him essentially heat sensors, thermal sensors to allow them to see if there is still warm bodies underneath the rubble. after several hours, they did not find anybody. you know, that is something that when you see people who are brought out alive. i asked this to the state department backed rescue workers, the americans, you

know, they said they see that. it gives them hope. so, they do continue to search as if it is the day after, as if there were still going to be many many people underneath that rubble still breathing. so, this is something when you see someone pulled out alive, that gives you hope to the search. so, no, one week into this, the search has not yet moved from rescue to recovery phase, as we keep, saying i keep saying, because i keep assuming, because the experts say, a 72 our window is really the most realistic period when people are still gonna be alive. but we keep seeing over and over again, day, and day out, merkel after merkel, people, whole families are brought out alive. that's why the rescue workers are not giving up hope, neither are we. alex? >> okay, you keep those kinds of stories coming. this has been just a heartbreaking, that wrenching experience to watch. thank, you so much, for doing the great job are doing, matt bradley. in the meantime, it is like going to college without taking any notes.

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look, we're investigating joe biden, we know that joe biden said during the presidential campaign he had no knowledge of his sons business interests, he wasn't involved, he didn't benefit from them, we have evidence that would suggest otherwise. >> republican oversight chair, james comer, discussing some of the committees first acts, just one of many republican-led investigation starting out. here's what democratic ranking member stacey plaskett says on the republican efforts in the weaponization of federal committee, federal government committee. >> i think we're gonna see the same claims, the claims that were debunked and disproven that years ago. they're gonna use lies,

misinformation, and outright conspiracy theories to attack the president and advance a really dangerous maga agenda. >> joining me now is virginia congressman, gerry connolly, a democratic member of the house foreign fighters and oversight committees, and the select subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government. welcome, my friend, it is good to see you. we're gonna start with those accusations from james comer. has he shared any of the alleged evidence that he has with democrats on the committee? is there anything to this probe? >> no and no. this is, this is a typical republican playbook to manufacture a scandal or crisis in the hope that some of it will stick and hurt prominent democratic political figures. in this case, the target is joe biden. and then getting out through his son. now, we had a hearing on the oversight committee, a debut

hearing where breathlessly, they were presenting, they said, evidence of witnesses who would prove that twitter had been weaponized to hurt republicans and help liberal democrats. and the hearing completely upended. what was proved at the hearing was that twitter got weaponized or attempted to be weaponized by donald j trump to take down tweets that personally attacked him and that there was zero evidence, according to republican witnesses, who are whistleblowers from twitter, that joe biden had ever, as president, or his white house, tried to -- twitter or takedown content. so, so much for that hearing. very opposite was in fact proved. >> you know, i think -- had a really good line as a result of all of that. we heard that, she wraps up

everything you said right there. let me play an exchange right now, this is from the weaponization of the federal government subcommittee to serve on. here it is. take a listen. >> you talk about dozens of whistleblowers, when are we gonna get that information? >> when they testify, when we work, with all work with ranking member on the. >> you don't have any transcriptions of their interviews? >> we have the first one, we have the dozens who have come and talk to our office. >> they talk to office privately? >> top republican staff, right? >> and they're not transcribed, no notes, no nothing? >> i mean the dozens of whistleblowers you've already talked to the came to talk to your staff? >> yeah, what do you want me to turn over there? >> their names. >> notes, did anyone take notes? >> i'll be happy to talk with the ranking member on how we handle that information. >> thank you. >> dan goldman and jim jordan sparring there. give me your thoughts on that reaction. there is this republican-led investigation, is already falling flat? is the gop goal just to further

road trust in the government? >> yes, yes, and there is a sinister goal here, which is to discredit the chief law enforcement agency of the federal government, of justice, and one of the premier subsets, the fbi, so that they're bringing indictments against insurrectionists. they are pursuing investigations of prominent trump officials, and maybe even trump himself, they're delegitimized because they're delegitimized. let's believable here. they did not get far. they did not get very far. and that exchange you just saw, it really is jim jordan resorting to him mccarthy-like tactics. remember, joe mccarthy would say, i have a list here, i'm not gonna show it to you. hundreds of state department officials who are compromised or communist sympathizers, or who are actually engaged in undermining the u.s. government.

he got away with that for years without ever showing us the names. he didn't have a list, he made it up. so, jim jordan did the same thing. he said, will get dozens of whistleblowers, wait till you see. well, they've only deposed one of them. that deposition has not been made available, we were not given advanced notice so we can actively participate. and he is just using that to persuade people listening that this is a lot bigger than you might know. it isn't. >> extraordinary. have we learned anything since the 1950s? this is just extraordinary. let me ask you quickly though about the third mystery object that was shot down over north america. canada's national defense ministry said it was smaller but, quote, potentially similar to the chinese spy balloon shut down last week and off the carolina coast. what concerns you most, sir, about these objects? both yesterday's shot down in canada and the one shot down over alaska on friday? >> well, the brazenness of if

these are all chinese, the brazenness of the chinese to do this is something to be noted. i do want to put it in context. the fact that we didn't shoot down the first balloon right away upon detection may very well be, as the panelists, mark, indicated, because we were monitoring it and its capabilities. and ciphering the data. it was in fact collecting. so, we need to be a little bit patient in terms of u.s. government behavior through respect to these objects. but having said that, it's really important to put it in context. let's not get obsessed by balloons, let's get obsessed by chinese behavior. you know, they are -- like it is the chinese lake. they are encroaching on the sovereign territory and territorial waters of allies and other neighbors in the region. and the biden administration deserves a lot of credit and fighting back, form a quad with

india, australia, japan. we have substituted diesel submarines, were substituting submarines for australia to better patrol those waters. we just signed a new agreement the philippines to expand for new bases for the first time in 30 years, on philippines oil, to be able to counter the aggression going on by the chinese in that region. so, this is all part of a bigger story about chinese aggression. >> and i appreciate you bringing that, up is the thing we need to focus on as well. thank you so much, it is good to see you. >> my pleasure. >> coming up next, we're in a talk about the mike pence subpoena, why team trump keeps confusing executive privilege with two other words, free pass. words, free pass ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks.

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what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. >> new details today and the doj special counsel investigation donald trump, just days after former vice president, mike pence, was

subpoenaed. nbc news has learned that donald trump's lawyers are expected to fight that subpoena on grounds of executive privilege. joining me now, former brooklyn prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, charles coleman. welcome, charles. let's start with this issue of executive privilege. this is not the first time that it's come up in relation to donald trump and the january six investigations. it is important to note that this investigation seeks -- conversations between trump and pence that did not have anything to do with governing. they were private conversations that could have discussed criminal activity. does the claim of executive privilege make a difference now that it involves mike pence? >> alex, it does not. we have seen donald trump run this play number of times. while he was president, it may have been successful, what i can assure you now is that the likelihood of it being successful has significantly decreased. number one, we're talking about conversations, like you said,

potentially involving criminal activity. in those cases, executive privilege does not apply. number two, donald trump is not the president anymore. so, this issue has actually been litigated before. there is precedent that would apply in the situation that would remove the executive privilege from the communications, if only for the fact that donald trump is no longer the actual president. and then number three, there is also implications that some of what might be saw, it may be a part of mike pence's book. in that case, there is no -- which would apply, that information has already been discussed undisclosed. >> yeah, you make a good point there. if everything is out there in the book, is there anything on which he could say, executive privilege? i mean, he's talked about things in such detail. >> he could try. i doubt would be successful. again, it's also curious, alex, to point out, it's unusual for the president to try to allege

a privilege on behalf of someone else. usually, it would be mike pence who would say first, listen, i can't speak about this because it's covered by executive privilege. then, it would be donald trump did then follow up and say, listen, i don't want this being spoken about, why don't we have the privilege. it is unusual to see donald trump as a former president trying to intervene and supersede mike pence even saying anything and fighting on his behalf. so, to seek to allege a privilege which he himself does not even have. >> so, it's a surprise mike pence has little to no enthusiasm for testifying in front of the special counsel, he has to do so under oath. he refused to appear before the january six committee. but were you surprised to see donald trump make this fight on behalf of mike pence? or is it actually really on behalf of donald trump? >> it's absolute on behalf of donald trump, it doesn't surprise me. the difference between what you're talking about with the select committee on january 6th

investigations as that they knew, both pence and trump, but particularly trump, because as part of the strategy, that he would be able to run the clock. he knew more likely than not, when the 118 congress proceeded, this committee was gonna be disbanded, which it was. he only had to play a waiting game. what he's doing now as he's alleging executive privilege because he knows that that same sort of, let me run out the clock strategy is not going to be successful in a federal court of law. the timeline does not add up in the same way that it did when you're talking about the congressional hearings and that investigation. and so, it did not surprise me. it absolutely is him trying to keep mike pence speaking from, about things that donald trump knows, maybe harmful for him. it's much less about mike pence and much more about donald trump protecting donald trump. >> why are we not surprised about that? okay. charles coleman, thank you so much for weighing in. it's an elephant in the room when it comes to the president running in 2024.

now a prominent democrat's saying, you know, it just doesn't matter. we will talk about it next. it next postmenopausal women with hr+ her2- metastatic breast cancer are living longer with kisqali. so, long live family time. long live dreams. and long live you. kisqali is a pill proven to help women live longer when taken with an aromatase inhibitor. and kisqali helps preserve quality of life. so you're not just living, you're living well. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain,

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2024. new questions this weekend, whether president biden will run for reelection after giving this answer in an interview. >> so, you said, now, multiple times, you have an intention to run for reelection.

but you have not made the decision yet. what is stopping you from making that decision? >> i'm just not ready to make it. >> there is no motive behind that? >> now. >> and joining me now is don calloway, democratic strategist and founder of the national protection action fund and susan del percio, republican strategist nimbus nbc political analyst. welcome, guys. so, don, this whole time it felt like biden running for reelection is really a question of when he would announce. we started thinking of what happened, like, after the holidays when he said he would take the time to think about and discuss with his family. it would be a win rather than if. the sensor, does a change of thinking at all? >> well, this is the first time that we've seen out of his mouth there be some real uncertainty. but i think that the party of mechanisms, on the state and local, as well as the national level, need to continue to proceed if joe biden will be a prospective nominee.

he has not said anything to suggest outside of this that he won't run. all of the dnc and harrison operations are in place to support a reelect, not a nomination process. and so, it looks like he'll run. i certainly believe he'll run, if you think he's had a successful presidency thus far, substantively, -- i think that if he does not run in the slim chance that he does not run, the nominee should be kamala harris. and it really is an insult to her and the presidency that they built together to suggest that should be anyone other than her. >> hear something interesting right now, susan. here's what's meridian -- dnc chair howard dean told me about potential by the run. take a listen. >> biden's going to decide, my personal but is that we will run again. and i actually think he's done a great job. the biggest problem that he's got a studies 80 years old. so what? put me -- wishing we had a 40-year-old. we don't and i think joe biden's done a hell of a job.

i have to say that. i was not particularly a biden guy. he has really done a great. >> will biden's actions as president outweigh his age? how big a factor will age versus accomplishments and of being as we get closer to 2024? >> it'll probably be depending on who the republican nominee is. if it's a donald trump, then it doesn't count, it doesn't matter. again, i think that joe biden just needed a little battle better answer that question. he's running. he wants to announce it on his time in his own way. you've had so many elected officials on, alex. you know they all have their coy way of getting away with it. he kind of humble did a little there. >> maybe so. don there's a new opinion piece in the washington post it. takes a look at why democrats are not lining up front against biden and says the main reason biden almost certain to be democrats 2024 nominee is that the party doesn't have a clear way to choose a strong alternative candidate.

your statement of kamala harris being the alternative, that's what you believe would have been notwithstanding. do you agree with the process. is that not in place? >> the process is not in place. i think it's a very astute observation. if you look at what took place with a disastrous nomination process for joe biden's election. in iowa, in new hampshire. it was an absolute mess. the great jim clyburn has orchestrated things such that south carolina has now moved up to being -- after his last week's dnc meeting. it's a very good thing because it reflects the diversity of our party. however. this is not the time to test that process it takes years to get the operation of election science in place and with rejoining the schedule. this is not the time to go into that with a combination process for the candidate. i think it's best with this. one >> let's take a look at the republican field for 2024 and i'll take a listen to what

republican new hampshire governor kristi knew said about donald trump's reelection run. >> donald trump is not gonna be the nominee. we're just moving on as a party, as a country. >> he's not? >> donald trump is not gonna win the nomination. and clearly not. we're still a year out. you have a former president running. already, he's having trouble leading in the polls. >> chris, donald trump says he's going to be the nominee. >> i'm sure he does. that shouldn't stop anybody. it's not going that way. >> susan, the question to you is does he not -- republican party agree with that that donald trump will not win the gop nomination? >> as you know, i do not believe that donald trump will be on a ballot before the 2024 -- so that being said, when you see someone like him kind of backpedal from being in essence, a never trumper to saying i will but he won't beach from.

it's just like a jumbled word salad as far as i'm concerned. i think that republicans of their seriously want to be a contender have to tell the people where they stand very clearly. i mean if you don't want to go 100 percent against donald trump just say i am not going to make that decision now until i see who the republican nominee is. that's exactly what donald trump is doing. >> total hypothetical here, don, back to you what you are seeing about kamala harris. if joe biden were to decide not to run. it's kamala harris a better nominee going up against republicans that potential trump -- desantis, nikki haley we fully expect to make it announcement that she's running and the like. is kamala harris the better candidate? >> i think she is the best candidate because we have to remember that she has been the co-architect of this extraordinarily successful

administration. what is there to look at in place blame on her shoulder? what is their lead look at and say that makes her an inadequate candid other than the idea that she's a woman when she no causes problems for nominees. that she's an african american. we know that there's a certain people who simply won't vote for a black woman. that is not a substitute knock of her. that is the nature of the racist and sexist nature the political process. she would have to be the nominee. >> quick super bowl predictions. i'm going to assume, don, you're gonna be with the chiefs because you're from history. at our sanders could've a bamboo thing going on. because of that. you're with the eagles in the queue be. do i have that right? kind of surprised to hear that. >> i gotta stay my brothers from 1911. shut up two -- we got a rock with jalen hurts this week. i'm sorry. go eagles. >> go eagles, got that. susan, you, who's your pick? >> i'm going with the golestan. i agree. >> that's nice. we'll leave it at that. okay, you guys, enjoy the game,

good to have. you see an ex weekend. meantime, take a moment and think of a year of major change for civil rights. my next guest will probably tell you you pick the wrong year. he's going to explain it next. o explain it next. gold. the world is full of financial noise. you are right on track to hit your goals. our easy to use investing app and local advisors can help you stay on track. j.p. morgan wealth management. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance can help you stay on track. through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54, what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications.

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of what's happening in american relations -- race relations today can be traced back to the pivotal year of 1966. it was the year in which the civil rights movement was balancing between the nonviolent activism of a liter such as mueller the king and the proponents of the black power movement. joining me now is the author of saying it loud, 1966, the year black power challenge the civil rights movement. we have mark whitaker who is also the former nbc news washington bureau chief so welcome home. good to have you here in the studio and on the set with us. we appreciate that. on the show with us.

mark, the question is you think about civil rights. when most people do that, in a pivotal year, you think 1963. the march in washington. 1965, voting rights act. or of course the, tragedy of 1968 when the milky was assassinated. you are saying it's 1966. why that year? >> it was a year that a young black generation started sort of galvanizing around the slogan black power. as you said in the intro, a lot of people associate that and the press covered it as if it was all about this an issue of this issue of nonviolence versus the way to defend yourself. that was part of it. a lot of it was young blacks saying we have to go beyond the previous agenda of the civil rights movement. which was mostly a passing legislation to organizing newly registered blacks in places where they could elect their own candidates to office. focusing on police violence and

black communities. when you look at what's going on today, that's very relevant. >> that's for sure. you mentioned to people. king in stoakley carmichael on the cover the book. you represent the opposite side of the divide between the philosophies on civil rights. talking about the tensions within the movement. that was caused by the different approaches the leaders took. >> stoakley carmichael, 1966, became the head of the student nonviolent coordinating committee. overnight, particularly once he started in at a rally in greenwood mississippi. in the middle of the summer. chanting lack power. he struck became a celebrity in the press. people called him stoakley star michael. people portrayed him as sort of the nemesis of dr. king. in fact, as a point in the book, that personal relation was much more complicated. they were quite fond of each other. and respectful of each other. for dr. king, it meant that

still clear they're talking about black power. everywhere he went, the press wanted to know where do you stand on black power? what kind of -- how us is going to change the movement? it definitely changed the debate around civil rights that here. >> it's like there was misinterpretation of the true meaning of the slogan. let me ask you a current day here. in a recent opinion piece he wrote in washington post. you're right about governor don -- rhonda sentences threat to me in the ap african american studies class in florida schools. how his rhetoric shows a belief that certain black study topics turns students of different backgrounds against one another. by the way, it was revealed that the college board which ended up stripping several subjects and authors from the curriculum was in repeated contact with the desantis administration it while developing the class. the board is now saying the political pressure did not plan to roll the changes. you say it's no accident the african studies curriculum is

more designed to help black students understand their role in american history then to reassure white students. you also say students have all races can benefit from a wider understanding of black history. talk about that. >> 1966 is also the year with the push for black studies begins at san francisco state university. right now, desantis portrays the teaching of black history that some kind of conspiracy to make young white people feel badly about their privilege. about the history of white supremacy. in fact, at the beginning, the proponents of black studies really thought it was a way to -- for black people to learn more about their own heritage. to feel more invested frankly in being u.s. citizens. as i pointed at peace, there was sort of actually -- it was both a matter of greater black consciousness and a sense

of being in touch with your roots. there was an underlying patriotism. we want to learn our histories that we can also understand and appreciate our role in american society. >> quickly, you discourage -- the symbols of being fought they. voting rights, police killings, black studies programs. that is keeping the conversation fronts and or help address the issues? >> what i was trying to do in this book. i think there's a lot of history -- people find out things. maybe they didn't know, they learned some new things. i also want to do it because so much of what was happening is still happening now. going back to the history. i think will perhaps help people better put activists today. people who are watching all of this to understand the dynamics of it. and perhaps to learn some lessons about how to do things better. >> it is a good effort. saying allow. 1966, the year black power challenge the civil rights movement. and author mark whitaker.

good front and d.c. news. thank you so much, good to see you. best of luck. starting next week, msnbc reports a new lineup. join -- 11 am eastern. followed by andrew mitchell at noon eastern. chris -- katie at 3 pm eastern. watch msnbc reports weekdays 11 am eastern. only on msnbc. meantime, we have dozens of questions about all three objects shot down by u.s. fighter jets in less than a week. at the top of the hour, we're going to try to answer them including one about a curious description of the latest object. what does corporate origin mean? we'll find out. we'll find out right? uhh...nope. intuit quickbooks helps you manage your payroll taxes, cheers! with 100% accurate tax calculations guaranteed. ♪♪ whenever heartburn strikes, get fast relief with tums. its time to love food back.

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