play out. >> yeah. former president trump has gotten a lot of momentum from the idea of, who is out there who could stop him? who could really put together the republican voting coalition to be an alternative? but money may do it. so as you correctly mentioned, these two groups, the club for growth and the koch network, which includes americans for prosperity, both planning to spend millions on any candidate but trump. the koch network has said that they're going to find a specific candidate to vote. it's not going to be trump. these are libertarian-minded groups that, put together, pack a big punch. and something else to watch is the super pacs of other people running against him. florida governor ron desantis

already with big super pac backing. >> it's growing, anticipation of the trump-desantis run. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> because we have not been able to definitively assess what these recent objects are, the president wanted to act out of abundance of caution. we are working hard to recover the debris to better understand, certainly the capability of the surveillance balloon from the prc, but also the nature of these unidentified objects, to better understand, were they surveillance objects? what was their purpose? what are their capabilities? >> close encounters of the unknown kind less than a week after the u.s. military brought down a suspected chinese spy balloon off the coast of south

carolina. the white house ordered the shooting down of three more unidentified flying objects over the weekend. >> what are these things? it's interesting, they would not call them balloons. they said, there is a reason we're calling them objects and not balloons. >> what on earth is going on here? >> come on, y'all. we're also following a number of political developments, including former president trump's 2020 presidential campaign, reportedly paying a research firm to find evidence of voter fraud. keeping those findings secret. >> you know why it's kept secret? >> they didn't find any proof. >> that's the news. >> well, of course. i mean, it's not news because -- >> we all know it. >> -- it's been the case for a couple care years now. >> i believe the former president wanted the firm to lie for him. >> yeah.

>> plus, the former president testing out potential names for ron desantis ahead of the matchup with the former governor. >> ron will reveal that one. >> i take offense to one of them. >> jonathan lemire. >> i am seriously triggered. >> you think one of these prove that donald has his high heat back. >> no. >> there was some skepticism among republicans and, frankly, trump supporters about his original nickname attempt for ron desantis. ron desanctimonious. now, it is meatball ron. that feels more like the lying ted and crooked hillary that worked for him. meatball ron. >> mika is offended that her cat's name would be used in vain. >> how dare he. >> couple things about that. one, i guess they don't have mirrors at mar-a-lago. >> yeah. >> two, you know what rhymes with meatball ron?

meatball don. >> oh. >> flows off the tongue. >> yeah. >> which is probably why he's not trotted that one out. >> those two could be meatball squared. >> let's talk about the super bowl. >> okay. here we go. >> here we go. hurts has all day. now some rushers come. going to throw it as far as his arm can take it, which is well short. the kansas city chiefs have won super bowl lvii. >> that's the chiefs winning their second nfl title in four years, coming back. they came back in the second half. just dominating the second half to beat the philadelphia eagles. probably the best all-around team in the league last night. the chiefs trailed for most of the game with their quarterback, patrick mahomes, playing through an ankle injury, aggravated on a tackle in the second quarter. a lot of people asking, was he going to be able to come out the second half? oh, he came out.

the chiefs closed the gap in the second half, taking its first lead early in the fourth when mahomes tossed two of his three touchdown passes in the game. philadelphia's jalen hurts broke the super bowl rushing record for a quarterback, rushing for three touchdowns. the first to throw for one and run for two more. it came down to, well, a tough, questionable call. a penalty with the game tied with about two minutes left to play, facing third and eight. the eagles 15 yard line. mahomes overthrew his receiver, but a flag thrown for defensive holding gave the chiefs a fresh set of downs. changed the entire complexion of the game, obviously, at the end. eagles quarterback bradbury admitted after the game the crucial penalty was, in fact, a hold. but eagle fans and other fans didn't believe. that decided the super bowl. fresh set of downs allowed kansas city to run the clock out.

harrison boettger for the go-ahead field goal. he'd missed an earlier kick. he sealed the victory. mahomes was the first mvp to go on to win the super bowl since 1999 and adds a second mvp to his resume. >> wow. >> let's bring in mike lupika, jonathan lemire, reverend al. >> everyone is a little tired this morning. i see sleepy faces. >> a little tired. why don't we start, mike lupika, with -- i don't want to start with the call. there were 59 minutes of greatness that preceded it. talk about this super bowl. what a -- this happens when you have the two best teams in football. two great quarterbacks. two great coaches. talk about the super bowl. >> you know, joe, i want to start with the losing quarterback. jalen hurts played one of the great games by a quarterback whose team lost the game that

i've ever seen in the super bowl. you have to give him all the props for what he did last night in glendale. but the other guy, mahomes, playing on one good leg, great players do great things. we talked about this the other day on the show. when a game looks this even to me, i always ask myself, who is the best player in the gym? in the second half, patrick mahomes, as great as hurts was last night, he was the best player in the gym. and how about that scramble up the middle for 26 yards. >> unbelievable. >> here's one other thing about that call, joe. the same thing happened last year. the same thing happened with cooper kupp last year and the rams. bengals got called for a hold. all of these people who say, you can't make that call then. my question is, if you don't make it then, why do you make it? >> well, i mean, it's a little bit different, isn't it, jonathan lemire, if you're

making that call in the first half of a game, week seven of the season, and when you're making that call when it will decide the outcome of the super bowl. it just was not -- there was a little tug there. i see that happening a hundred times a year on routes. the ball was overthrown anyway. again, i agree with mike, that's going to be called holding a lot. bradbury, boy, you know, really stepped up and said, "yeah, i did it." but you hate to see a great super bowl decided that way. >> so anticlimatic. i'll take the other side of this one from mike. i just don't think you can call that there. you throw the flag. the referee throws that flag, he's deciding the super bowl. with that much time left in the game, you give the chiefs a first down. they can run out the clock, which they did. they kicked the three as time expired, they win. you know you're deciding the game. the play wasn't even close. mahomes missed him.

that is tough. but let's be clear, though, we can have our concerns about that call, but mahomes was brilliant. >> unbelievable. >> the eagles defense couldn't get a stop. that was perhaps the most surprising and disappointing thing in this game. the eagles defense was really good all year long, and they were terrible yesterday. they couldn't get kansas city off the field. give credit to andy reid. some marvelous play design on some of the offensive plays. left guys wide open the whole game. mahomes made throw after throw. great game. hurts was terrific. mahomes was even better. tough to see it end that way. >> mike, let's be clear, though, i mean, the eagles defense was good in the first half. they were beaten badly in the second half. you know, you were talking about, you have a rule you ask yourself, who is the best player in the gym? i mean, in super bowls, i ask the question, who has been there? who is a person that's going to be able to handle the adversity the best? again, jalen had a great game,

but you could tell in places it was his first super bowl. look at andy reid. look at these play designs. you know, the announcers were saying, oh, he's going to run the ball up the middle, you know, for two plays on third and short. i was like, no. here's another incredible designed play. goes in motion, cuts back at the last second, wide open. andy reid doesn't run the ball up the middle two times and take chances. let's just say it. i mean, what i said going into the second half was to jack, we're talking, i said, you know, you have a future hall of fame quarterback, we know. we have a future hall of fame coach. going into the second half, if they get a quick score, watch out. those are the two guys you want on your side the second half of the biggest game in the world. >> joe, the last time they played a super bowl in that stadium, tom brady brought his team from ten points behind in

the second half, which is exactly what pat mahomes did last night. again, he wasn't at his best physically, but he was his best as a football player. again, you go back and look at the play that set up the last field goal, where on that bad ankle, he runs 26 yards up the middle of the field. again, great players do great things. in that moment -- joe, i thought the most important drive was the first of the second half where the chiefs went right down the field and scored. >> yeah, went right down the field and scoscored. andy reid, you look at the plays he was calling. extraordinary play calling in the second half. kept a great eagles defense back on their heels the whole time. all right. you know, richard haass, you have negotiated some pretty important international deals.

you're special envoy to northern ireland. you've done the important things. help us mere mortals out here. the call, which this will be called forever, the call in philadelphia, they'll be calling it the call. was it a penalty? should the ref let them play? what did you think? >> yes, it was a penalty. as you say, bradbury showed total class. should it have been called? probably not. it was not egregious. it was not really player defining, which ought to be the criteria. joe, you're missing the big point here. >> of course i am. >> as a giants fan, the fact that philadelphia lost makes this a great game. empire state building was not bathed in green last night. it was a good game for new yorkers. >> really personal. >> i thought both defenses had a bad game. i thought this was so offense dominant. both quarterbacks had a lot of time yesterday.

i was surprised by the fact that neither defense really asserted itself in the game. >> it was really something. you remind me of gene robinson, who after ohio state loss, he brought up his favorite new yorker cartoon of all time. a dog says, "it's not enough that dogs win. cats must lose." for new york fans last night, cats lost. now, rev, i remember very well, and it was very excite, i think it was '88, january of '88. maybe early february of '88. doug williams goes out on the field, and, you know, he'd been a spotty quarterback at times, but doug williams that night was on fire. he won the super bowl. the redskins crushed the broncos. he was the first black quarterback in the super bowl and winning a super bowl. it was a big deal. everybody was talking about it.

last night, it just kind of snuck up on us, at least snuck up on me as i was reading articles. this is the first time there are two black quarterbacks in the game. also, the two youngest quarterbacks with age combined. history was made last night. man, let's just say this, two incredible guys. two guys of deep faith, that talked about their deep faith. talked about their teams. they both so wonderful in adversity. these are guys you'd want to be in a fox hole with, whether you're in business or on the football field, wherever you were. >> no doubt about it. when you look at last night, two black quarterbacks competing in the super bowl. it wasn't even a big deal, which shows how we've advanced. you know, i talk all the time about how far we still have to go. last night showed culturally we made some progress. i remember when doug williams first played.

i'm not a huge football fan, but i make every super bowl, watching it. i've even gone to a couple. both of these quarterbacks came up, perfected their sports. they're sons of athletes. they're the best we could have for black america. i was teasing some of the guys i was watching the game with. this is the first time in our life we can't say, let's root for the black guy. no matter who you rooted for last night, you were rooting for the black guy. if i had attended as i have others, joe, i probably would have been one to lead a protest against the call at the end. i would have been marching outside the stadium. i would have been leading a protest. >> of course. hey, one other thing, too, isn't it interesting, mike lupica, a couple years ago, all i heard was the colin kaepernick controversy, the kneeling before the game, all of the great divisions that caused. it was going to hurt the nfl

forever. you had republican roll ste pol telling me that's one of the reasons donald trump won states, that the nfl was up there. people turned it off. friends told me they'd never watch the game again. the nfl has never been bigger. they've never made more money. they've never had more fans. there's never been more interest. franchises, you look at the top 30 franchises in the world as far as value. i think the top, you know, 24 of the 30 in the world are nfl franchises. this game is bigger than ever before. so much for that controversy damaging it. >> you know what? even the controversy of the call last night, it somehow makes the event bigger. joe, i've seen a lot of great games. saw brady come back. this puts a bow on what was a

tremendous season in the nfl that ended up with a feel good story about damar hamlin. >> it had everything. >> what a season. >> i'm having gone to bed at halftime. i don't know how you all are doing it. mike lupica, thank you very much. latest book, "the house of wolves," co-authored with james patterson. >> it keeps selling. it is a patrick mahomes of books. >> thank you. we're going to turn to the news now. the growing question surrounding the white house's decision to shoot down three more unidentified flying objects over the weekend. less than a week after the u.s. fill military brought down a suspected chinese spy balloon, skies were active again. on friday, president biden ordered the military to shoot down an object flying near the northern coast of alaska. at least 40,000 feet, according to nsc spokesperson john kirby. the object was roughly the size

of a small car and was flying low enough that it posed a threat to civilian flights. on saturday at the request of canadian prime minister justin trudeau, the u.s. fighter jets shot down another object, which was small and cylindrical, flying over the country's yukon territory. saturday, u.s. aircraft were sent to montana to investigate an anomaly picked up on radar. according to the defense department, they were unable to find the source. officials say the radar blip reemerged overnight on saturday, and after floating over lake huron near michigan, president biden made the call to bring it down. it was described as a structure with strings hanging off of it with no discernible payload. officials are now working to recover debris from the three sites to determine the object's

origins and makeup. winter conditions in alaska and canada are making that difficult. the objects are same to all resemble each other, and not the suspected chinese spy balloon shot down earlier this month. when asked yesterday about the possibility of the objects being extraterrestrial, it was said, there is no chance of that. admiral james stavridis, chief analyst for nbc news. >> first, the call. was it holding or not. >> yes, it was holding. really unfortunate way to end the game. i think everybody knows the actual highlight was the u.s. navy flyover at halftime. >> all women, celebrating 50 years of women in the cockpit.

that was a pretty great moment for my navy. >> 50 years. >> it was. so what do you make of this? a different object every day. obviously, they're paying closer attention. there may have been this clutter, whatever it is, up there all along, but, obviously, they're paying closer attention to what is flying up there. the only thing is, even if these aren't spy craft, they're at 20,000 people. they're at 30,000, 40,000. >> yeah. >> they're suddenly talking about something that could take down a commercial airliner. >> oh, yeah. and, you know, ian fleming who wrote the great james bond novel said, if someone shoots at you, the first time is happenstance. the second time is coincidence. the third time, it is enemy action. we're on round four here. this is starting to look a little campaign like. i'm not a big believer in coincidence and international

relations. when you look at how china is reacting to the philippine basing agreement, to the standup of the new marine corps base in guam, to kevin mccarthy's talk of going to taipei, i think there is a bit of campaigning going on here. yes, joe, you're right, we're also more situationally aware. that's what happened as a result of the first incident. i think you're going to see more of this because technology the changing. it's providing new means. by the way, we tend to focus on china. this could be russia. the arctic is becoming a real zone of interaction in that high north, as well. so i think we're going to see more of this. i know we'll be talking to john kirby a little later on. ask him about how integrated our radar systems are. that is a significant point we ought to focus on here. >> yeah. jonathan lemire, what's the white house saying? >> they haven't said much to

this point, joe. we expect to get a more substantial briefing today. certainly, as noted, we'll hear from john kirby in an hour or so. this, of course, you know, friday is when they announced -- i was in the briefing room at the white house on friday when kirby did announce the shooting down of the object over alaska. then we've had a couple more over the weekend. frankly, that navy flyover at the super bowl is surprising they didn't shoot one down when they were at it, considering it's such a trend, richard haass. my question for you, we heard a couple hours ago, foreign ministry in beijing have said, "hey, the u.s. have flown ten balloons over our skies since 2022." we know they spy on us. we spy on them. what's the sense here? is this something that has always been happening and now there's more attention to it? part two, this only is inflaming tensions between washington and beijing. what can be done about that? >> part one, my guess is this was not an area either side was

focusing a lot on. now we're focusing more on it. possible some chinese, russian agency decided this was almost an area you could go, in the same way we do with satellite. my guess is it's been going on for some time. we're noticing it a lot more now. the question is, does it continue to go on? we don't know who may have authorized it in china, russia, wherever. the real question is, do political authorities step in and say -- which gets to your second question -- we have to stop this or slow this down? whatever intelligence gain we're getting from this is not worth it. this has become highly controversial, if not unacceptable. if people want to get the relationship back on track, we have to cool it on this. my guess is this was an area there was a lot of activity in, wasn't noticed. now it is being noticed, and now the rules of the game are going to change. >> admiral, chances are very good, if the chinese are doing it, we're doing it and probably doing it better. they're not being able to detect our objects that are floating over their country.

i mean, if you know anything classified, please don't reveal it here, but it's kind of like when people were talking, oh, the russians are able to hack into our computers. yeah, just please. please just wait. of course, in the mueller report, we found out that as they were hacking, we knew what base was doing it, what building was doing it, what person sitting at what desk was doing it, what keystroke they used to do the things they were doing. that's what i'm saying. i mean, we can protest and beat our chest, scream and yell and say this is the worst chance ever, chances are good we're probably doing it and doing it better, aren't we? >> well, let's just say we are pretty damn good at listening all around the world. >> let's just say that. >> yeah. hey, i'll give you three things that are net positives here. one is we're learning a lot. we are soaking up intelligence.

we are going to recover every nut and bolt of these things that come out of the sky. we're also very good at that. our intelligence community is going to reverse engineer this and learn a great deal. number two, little noticed, i think, but really terrific cooperation between the united states and canada here. this is the absolute identify of norad. north american air defense. that's what norad stands for. you see it going back and forth. if you're going to stand and operate with another nation, having a big, capable one like canada on our border is a very good thing. that cooperation has gone very well. and then, thirdly, to richard haass' point, i think both sides are going to say, look, the candle isn't worth the gain here in terms of ratcheting up, creating challenges. let's let cooler heads prevail. i think that'll happen. watch tony blinken.

when does that trip get reconstituted? let's hope it's soon, and let's hope the tension goes out of the system here. >> admiral, finally, we're coming up on the one-year anniversary. we certainly will talk to you more about the anniversary of the russian invasion of ukraine. right now, the russians have an offensive going. what are you looking at? >> casualties. recently announced -- and, by the way, when i think casualties, i tend not to look at u.s. intelligence, which tends to understate them. i look certainly not at ukrainian information, which, for obvious reasons, tends to overstate them. watch the british, the uk intelligence. these casualties are tracking toward 1,000 killed a day. not quite there yet. >> wow. >> don't forget, we lost, tragically, we, the united states, 7,000 in 20 years of war. that would be a week's worth of what is going out of the russian

military in terms of killed and severely wounded. so i'm tracking casualties on that side of the firing line. over here on the western side, joe, i'm tracking our resolve. so there, watch our president. when he goes to poland, maybe he'll dip into ukraine, who knows? but that'll be a real signal. you'll see putin give a big speech that will be a pack of lies, and you'll see our president give a speech that will be a beacon of light. watch those two. >> wow. >> mika, think about i. as admiral laid it out, 1,000 a day of deaths, killed in action. >> unspeakable. >> think about it, by the tend of this week, by friday, you will have more russians killed this week than died in the iraq war, than americans that died tragically in the iraq war. and the question is, i understand people go on all the

time, putin can just let as many people die as he wants. that wasn't the case in afghanistan for the russians. i don't think it'll be the case in the end here either. at some point, he'll have to have an excuse to declare victory and stop. >> stop throwing the lives away. >> retired admiral james stavridis. as always, thank you very much for getting up early with us. we appreciate it. >> thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe," white house national security spokesman john kirby joins us to weigh in on the growing number of objects that have been shot down in north american air space. plus, the latest from turkey as rescue crews are pulling fewer and fewer earthquake survivors from the rubble. also ahead, forget about ron desanctimonious. president trump is testing out different nicknames for florida governor ron desantis. and the must-read opinion

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shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. ron, you talk about joe biden a lot. i understand, you think you're going to be running against him. i can see how you might get confused. but you're running for governor. you're running for governor. i have a question for you. you're running for governor. why don't you look in the eyes of the people of the state of florida and say to them, if you are re-elected, you will serve a full four-year term as governor. yes or no? yes or no, ron? will you serve a full four-year term if you are re-elected governor of florida? it's not a tough question.

it's a fair question. he won't tell you. >> okay. >> later, he blurted out, i like purple. >> if that's -- >> what? it's awesome. >> if that's how he handled an attack from charlie crist in the gubernatorial debate, how will he handle donald trump? he may take similar tact and not lash out at donald trump, at least not yet, even as the former president steps up his attacks. why are these important? they were -- >> look what happened with jeb. lying ted. i mean, it actually -- >> will it have the same effect this time is the question we should ask. "the times," quote, desantis has conflict avoidance, delaying what is likely to be a hostile and divisive clash that forces the party's voters to pick

sides. according to "the times," trump spent weeks trying to goad desantis into a fight, describing him in conversations about meatball ron, an apparent dig at his appearance. >> again, no mirrors at mar-a-lago. >> or shutdown ron, a reference to restrictions the governor put in place at the beginning of the covid pandemic. >> again, obviously he can't read, because if he could read his own press releases from the white house, he told governors they needed to shut down. >> when asked about trump's attacks, desantis has mainly countered by reminding voters of trump's election losses. your advice is that is exactly what he should do. >> that is what he should do. i think desantis, of course, looked terrible in the debate with charlie, but -- >> there was a little sort of, you need to know that the moderator was the only one who was supposed to be asking questions. he might have been sticking to the rules.

hey, listen, his airport is disgusting. thanks, ron desantis. >> let's not talk about -- >> i'm not defending him. >> anyway, you don't look that way in debates. anyway, i will say, i'll go to rev in a second, but, first, jonathan lemire, i will say, i mean, we were talking about how trump had lost his fastball. i mean, the first nickname was something like ron supercalifragilistic- expialidocious. >> tough on a bumper sticker. >> yeah, very hard to do. then it was ron desantimonious. tighten it up a little bit. then he goes to meatball ron. like that tweet that you sent me yesterday, it's like a reliever who lost his stuff, suddenly remembering how to throw a 98 mile an hour fastball high. >> yeah, it is. i mean, this is all childish and immature and ridiculous. >> of course it is. >> let's start there. >> terrible. >> but in the category of

childish and ridiculous things, it's a good nickname. it's not very self-aware of the former president, considering his own appearance. and the covid thing is an interesting choice, as well. to hit desantis for being easy on covid, when desantis, outside of the first couple weeks, made a point of going to the right of trump on pandemic response. i'm not sure that'll play either, rev. really, what this is about, it's the opening act, right? desantis is trying to be above the fray. people who know both men know -- even desantis supporters know he has to get better for debate moments like that. trump is good at attacking political opponents. it is an undeniable skill he has. how do you see this playing out? >> what is interest to me is how he froze in the debate more than how he responds to trump. you know, i ran in 2004 in

several of the primaries for president. when you get on the big stage, it's different. i don't know desantis has shown he can rise to the big stage. i mean, i don't care how much pressure you get before that, it is different up there. they analyze everything. when you can't answer a question that you should have known was coming in the charlie crist segment we just showed, the -- where you should have been prepared for that, i'm wondering, how do you handle presidential politics? whether you can act like a wrestling match guy with trump exchanging names, that's one thing. when you get up there and they're coming at you hard, and these are not your friendly guys at "the miami herald," you are going to be tested. i don't know that desantis has shown he can perform on that level. >> rev brings up a great point. he's the only one of us who has been there.

everyone there said, you can talk about it all you want to. when you're on the big stage, it's nothing like you've ever experienced before. >> some take off. >> trump filled up the big stage. that's why trump won the republican nomination. he knew how to fill up the big stage. we've seen a lot of candidates that get up there and don't know how to fill up the big stage. >> what is it, rev, what'd you say about -- what was the james brown quote about playing clubs and arenas? >> yeah, james brown, the first time i went with him to las vegas, i was still, like, 20 years old. he showed me the lounge. he says, you see the lady singing? yes. he says, we're going in the big room where i'm doing the show. there is a difference between the lounge act and playing on the big stage in the showroom. the audience in the lounge there, smoking, drinking, and you're doing whatever you can to

get their attention. on the stage, you perform. those people paid $100 a head. i don't know desantis has shown he can. as grotesque as donald trump was, he can play the big stage. i don't know desantis belongs on the big stage. >> we're all talking in the abstract, but when you have -- and it is the big stage. also, it's a lot like boxing. mike tyson, everybody has a plan until you punch him in the mouth. think about donald trump, jeb bush. everybody said jeb bush was going to win it. everybody said jeb bush was going to win. all the smart money was on jeb bush. donald trump calls him low energy jeb, goes after him, that's tend of it. marco rubio, cover of "time" magazine, the future of the republican party. that's what "time" magazine thought. that's what a lot of people said. you have donald trump. he makes money of marco rubio for sweating, calls him little marco. it is a nickname that has stuck,

and people still in washington refer to him -- i mean, not in front of the senator -- but refer to him as little marco. you can say the same thing for ted cruz, for all of these people. you know, the response, richard haass, doesn't have to be an insult going back. i mean, you can just say, listen to this. you're so cute. you're so cute with your nicknames. listen, why don't you just go back and try that on a group of people that are too stupid to respond. because i can respond, donald. you know what else i can do? i can win. you can't. 2017, loser. 2018, loser. 2019, loser. 2020, loser. 2021, loser. 2022, loser. 2024, loser. donald, you figure out your cute nicknames. i'll figure out how to win

finally for the republican party. and we'll both have a better 2024. i mean, he doesn't have to do that, but just if he comes with something strong, mocks him, pushing him to the side, great. but no republican, richard -- is and this is what i just can't understand. nobody has figured out how to do that. it's just not that hard. >> look, you can't beat something with nothing. i understand the tactics of not wanting to get down in the mud. that's what trump is good at. it is not clear desantis would emerge from that, shall we say, victorious. he can continue pushing the cultural agenda. he can continue going after the biden administration. it has all sorts of vulnerabilities. joe, you've been in the game, i haven't. it is tactical and you see what happens. my instincts is desantis is right, not getting into a slinging match with trump. he has things he could attack the biden administration for. more broadly, republicans could use an agenda. it'd be nice if one of the

republican candidates came through with a serious agenda for what they'd do for this country. i haven't heard it yet. >> a serious agenda. mika, you know, you never fight anybody on their ground. you never give them the high ground. you never, ever let them maintain their balance. you look at the 16 people that ran against trump in 2016. they all let him define, you know, the debate. oh, he's a disrupter. look at the horrible -- he is insulting people. no, you pull back and figure out, before you go on the debate stage, how do i disrupt his attempts to disrupt? how do i make him fight on my terms? if you have half a brain, you can figure out how to do that. every republican in 2016 was reactive. they were reacting to his shock opera. let's see if desantis can figure out a better way to do it. >> after all that losing, trump has a record now that these republicans can talk about. they can really put into words,

reality versus bullying, kindergarten names. coming up -- it could change the dynamic a little bit -- we're learning new details about a classified documents folder former president trump's legal team recently turned over to the justice department. my lord. plus, a look at the morning papers, including social media getting parental consent before allowing anyone 16 or younger on the platform. >> i like that idea. good luck with it. i like that. >> it's not going to work. >> washington is waking up at 6:43 a.m. >> it is beautiful. look at this. >> wondering when their football team will make it back to the playoffs. wondering when they will actually get rid of their owner. >> we'll be right back. >> so they can go back to the super bowl. whoa. okay. easy does it. we switched to liberty mutual and saved $652. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa!

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all right. beautiful shot of new york city on this monday morning.

it is 6:48 a.m. on the east coast. time to wake up, everybody. it is time now for a look at the morning papers. headlines making news across the country. the state has a front page feature on former south carolina governor nikki haley's expected presidential announcement. the republican is holding an event in charleston on wednesday where she will likely launch her campaign for the white house. haley would be going up against former president donald trump, who currently is the only republican to announce a presidential bid. in north carolina, the state's "record and landmark" reports the army is having trouble recruiting members because the younger generation is worried about their safety. the head of army marketing say young people don't see the army as, quote, something that is relevant in their lives. last year, the army had its worst recruiting year in decades, falling 25% short of

its goal. the "south jersey times" finds the majority of residents want high schools to start later. 55% of those polled supported a bill that sets 8:30 a.m. as the earliest time a high school can start. new jersey does not have a statewide standard for school start times, but the average high school starts just before 8:00 a.m. finally, "the day" reports connecticut lawmakers are proposing a bill to require social media companies get parental consent for any user 16 years old and under. supporters say this could help improve children's mental health and protect their privacy. former president trump's 2020 presidential campaign reportedly paid a research firm to find evidence of voter fraud but kept the findings secret when no proof was found. "the washington post" reports the campaign never released the final results after the research

team disputed many of trump's theories and could not find any evidence that he actually won the election. that is according to four people familiar with the matter. "the post" writes the campaign paid researchers from the berkeley research group, the people said, to study 2020 election results in six states, looking for fraud and irregularities to highlight in public and in the courts. among the areas examined were voter machine malfunctions, instances of dead people voting, and any evidence that could help trump show he won, the people said. the research was done in the final weeks of 2020 before trump supporters stormed the capitol on january 6th. former president trump continues to push the big lie today, despite the commissioned research saying otherwise. in a statement, a berkeley research group spokesperson said, quote, our experts provide independent and objective

factual analysis. we do not comment on client engagements or on privileged and confidential matters. a spokesman for the trump campaign attacked joe bide in a statement, suggesting trump won the election. since the announcement he lost, multiple courts and swing states confirmed former president trump did not win. let's bring in former u.s. attorney joyce vance. she's an msnbc legal analyst. joyce, what do you think is important about this news as it pertains to the big lie and legal efforts to prove that donald trump was trying to overturn the election and knew he lost? >> it is important evidence for the special counsel to have, mika, because when you're talking -- and we've talked for months now about the fact that prosecutors that will have to prove that the former president

knew he had lost but, nonetheless, carried out the conduct connected to january 6th and his effort to prevent certification of the vote. the way prosecutors do that isn't just with one piece of evidence. what you really need is layer upon layer of circumstantial evidence. you don't have a confession from trump that he knew, so you achieve your proof as a prosecutor by showing through multiple people and multiple events that there's strong indication that he knew. at this point, where you have an outside, independent firm that's highly regarded, confirming that there was no fraud involved in the election. if prosecutors can prove that that was communicated to trump, it is really the nail in the coffin. >> let's talk also on january 6th, joyce. news that the special counsel, jack smith, issued a subpoena to former vice president mike pence. his team hasn't committed one way or the other, whether they'll comply. they may not. if that's the case, do they have ability to not comply with the subpoena by the special counsel?

just speak to us as to what an escalation, in some ways, this is. if the special counsel is clearly assigned to not just focus on mar-a-lago documents but on january 6th and the innermost members of trump's circle. >> we have gotten so used to the former president getting away with running circles around the legal system, that people might forget that compliance with the federal grand jury subpoena is not optional, right? mike pence will show up. he will testify. trump's attorneys very likely will try to litigate executive privilege claims. they won't work. executive privilege is meant to protect communications a president has as part of his governance of the country. it's not meant to protect crimes. it's not meant to protect presidents who are trying to hold on to power after they've lost an election. so pence will testify. as you point out, it really is an escalation in the special counsel's tactics. it suggests that he is at the point where he needs to talk to

the essential witness. mike pence, the only person other than trump who knows exactly what happened on both sides of that phone call on the morning of january 6th. that's critical, critical testimony the government has to have. >> i would think. the fbi discovered another classified document at former vice president mike pence's indiana home. according to a statement from his team, the doj searched the home for five hours on friday and removed one document with classified markings and six others that had no markings. both pence's team and the doj called the search consensual. it came after pence reported last month that a, quote, small number of classified documents have been found in his home and turned over to the fbi. meanwhile, there is a new development surrounding former president donald trump's handling of classified material.

the former president's legal team recently gave the justice department a folder with classified markings on it. the official said the folder was found last month at mar-a-lago in florida and was handed over voluntarily to the doj. it is unclear what level of classification markings were on the folder or what it may have contained. at the same time, "the guardian" reports trump's lawyers turned over an empty manila folder mark ed "classified eveningbriefing" after the justice department issued a subpoena for it last month. once prosecutors became aware it was located inside mar-a-lago -- that's according to two sources familiar to the matter." in addition, around the same time that trump's layers turned over the empty folder, they also returned, in december, a box of presidential schedules at mar-a-lago, of which a couple were marked classified. in january, a laptop on to which

the contents of the box had been scanned last year by a junior aide. let's bring in the reporter behind the story. political investigations reporter for "the guardian," hugo lowell. i understand that empty folder light might have been a prop, to look like he was busy, i guess? what would he use that as a prop for? >> yeah, so the justice department, you know, we understand, issued a subpoena for this folder. because it was located or seen in trump's bedroom on his night stand. as you can imagine, that really alarmed the justice department. i think, you know, trump's lawyer described on cnn yesterday it was supposedly being used to cover a blue light that was flashing on his bedside table. it was part of this conference call/phone landline system he has in his room. but i think the fact that this classified briefing folder was in his bedroom, and the fact he

still have classified documents in boxes of presidential schedules being returned to the justice department, makes this a really, kind of bad few months for trump. even if you can't charge the classified folder itself, even if you can't get trump through the schedules themselves, i think in the big picture of things, this is really problematic. if the justice department can start tying these back to the -- these spillages back, basically, to the original obstruction of justice in may, when trump's lawyers failed to return all of the classified materials that were at mar-a-lago, then i think it kind of compounds the legal jeopardy that he is facing. >> joyce, let's get your take here as legal expert. what do these new developments mean in the ongoing case being built against trump? >> this gives the special counsel an entree into witnesses he'd like to turn into cooperators. once you have a lower level

photocopying or what happens scanning documents to a computer, red lights have to go off. you have to have a forensic examination of the computer, making sure nothing else was communicated. if you want to put pressure on the low-level aide, it is likely that person would prefer to share with you all the information they have rather than facing prosecution. so prosecutors like to work exactly that way, working up the chain of responsibility. ultimately, finding the people who are the most responsible for criminal events. this may well be a way in for jack smith. >> wow. former u.s. attorney joyce vance, thank you very much. "the guardian's" hugo lowell, thank you, as well, for your reporting this morning. coming up, is the truth out there? we'll get an update from the national security council's john kirby about the unidentified flying objects shot down by the u.s. military in recent days. plus, donald trump is apparently cashing in on his relationship with saudi arabia

and is raising new national security concerns now that he is running for president again. that new reporting is ahead on "morning joe." we're back in one minute.

welcome back to "morning joe." it is february 13th. it is monday morning. >> mika, the monday after the super bowl, which i have to say -- >> everyone looks so tired. >> you were there. >> yes. >> until the very last play. >> no, i left. >> very last play. you were just, like -- >> nope. >> -- could not believe. >> i left before halftime. >> i got to tell you, it was really something, jonathan lemire. she was jumping up, yelling, e, what a horrible call. no, hold on a second. she was asleep by halftime. >> i was. >> breaking news, she was asleep by halftime. kind of like -- >> i was tired. >> -- new year's eve. if we go to sleep before the ball drops, before the end of a super bowl, it's been a good night. in this case, i stayed up, watched a great game. i mean, that was -- i've got to say, there's the controversy about the very end. but that's one of the great super bowls in the past, well --

you know, super bowls used to be horrible. every super bowl used to be bad. this was a really great super bowl, jonathan. >> '80s and '90s, we had blowouts. the nfc would crush whoever they faced. we've had a nice run the last 15, almost 20 years. patriots were in classics. chiefs and bengals. the one with the rams wasn't bad. the story line this year is the call at the end, which is a shame. i think this was two great quarterbacks, both playing really well. reflective of where the nfl is right now. all offense. so quarterback dominated, even more than before. i think that andy reid is going to get a lot of credit for a creative game plan, and i think that this is going to be, you know, patrick mahomes. the resume he is building already. five straight afc title games in five years as starting quarterback. made to three super bowls, winning two. that's remarkable for a guy who is only, i believe, 27.

he is working his way to the sacred pantheon of quarterbacks. he has to do it longer, but he is charting a path. it was a fun game. maybe not a classic but certainly very fun. >> mahomes can do it if he stays healthy. the difference between mahomes and tom brady and joe montana, who i think are the two greatest quarterbacks, is they, for the most part, stayed in the pocket. you wouldn't have seen them doing what, really, mahomes did on probably the key play of the game. i mean, what an extraordinary scramble. the guy was hurting. you could tell he was hurting with every step he took. yet, the scramble right down the center of the field that set 'em up where they could get the field goal and win the game. it was just incredible moment. you know, richard, it's always important to remember, this kansas city chiefs team probably could not have done it without your giants. >> that's true. first, you have, you know, bradbury and the call we've been

talking about. cadarrius toney is the other. hurt all the time. disappointing high draft pick of the giants. scores the touchdown. the punt return transforms the situation. i don't know. it was hard watching that, joe. i have to tell ya. >> richard haass, in fact, here it is. >> toney award. not to rub salt in your wounds. but i'm doing it. as we noted earlier, salt and wounds, philadelphia loses the super bowl months after they lost the world series, too. tough couple months there for the city of brotherly love. >> jalen hurts will be back. first super bowl he's been in. last year, the guy was -- you know, he still didn't have the philadelphia fans around him. this is a guy when he was drafted, the philadelphia fans hated him. huge poll, like 65% of the people rated his first draft pick an "f." the rest gave him a "d."

rev, the guy showed extraordinary character, extraordinary class. he stayed calm. he fumbled the ball, goes and talks to each one of his lineman and said, my fault. don't worry about it. man, the guy is just -- he is a beast running the ball. i mean, there isn't an nfl coach around that wouldn't love to have jalen hurts on their roster. the guy is a great passer, great runner. yeah, he decides he needs to pick up a couple yards for a first down, he's going to do it. again, as we said last hour, history made in this game, rev. >> no question about it. jalen hurts can go back to philadelphia even though he didn't win the game. he can go with his head held high. he distinguished himself, he proved himself. despite the bad call at the end that will be one of the story lines that i said i would have protested if i was there, i

think that mahomes can keep his head high. both of them proved themselves. i think that you can't take anything away from them because of the bad call. they were both where they should have been, and that was in the super bowl. nobody could question why they were there. >> and history made, first time two black quarterbacks played. also, the youngest quarterbacks of combined age. man, they both looked like veterans out there. what a game. andy reid, you just have to give andy reid so much credit. the play calling in the second half especially kept a very good philadelphia eagles defense on their back heeheels. the entire half, reid dialed it up to perfection. >> and an all-female military flyover. >> how awesome is that? >> i love it. we'll pause from the super bowl for a moment and get to the news now. the u.s. shot down three separate unidentified aircraft over the weekend. this after first tracking and downing a suspected chinese spy

balloon last week. now, there's a growing call for transparency from the white house and the pentagon. in a moment, we're going to be speaking with admiral john kirby. first, we get the details from nbc white house correspondent monica alba. >> reporter: the u.s. military shooting down another high altitude, unidentified object. this time, over lake huron. the pentagon saying in a statement, the object flew in proximity to dod sites and was deemed a threat due to surveillance capabilities. the faa issuing a temporary flight restriction over nearby lake michigan earlier sunday afternoon, citing department of defense activities. coming just hours after air space was restricted over montana saturday night for the same reason. initially assessed as a radar anomaly. >> i think it got dark last night, so they couldn't fully check it out. >> reporter: as new details emerge about the flying object shot down by the u.s. over northern canada saturday, an

f-22 taking out a small cylindrical object, first spotted in american air space friday. a carefully coordinated mission between the two countries. >> this was the first time that a norad operation has downed an aerial object. the object was flying at an altitude of approximately 40,000 feet. had unlawfully entered canadian air space and posed a reasonable threat to the safety of civilian flight. >> we're always going to defect and we're always going to defect our air space. >> reporter: saturday's military operation came just a day after the president authorized the u.s. to take aim at another unidentified object, off the coast of alaska. those tasked with recovering debris are battling severe wind chill and limited daylight. as a call for transparency grows

louder. >> people's anxiety leads them into potentially destructive areas. i hope very soon the administration has a lot more information for all of us on what is going on. >> i would prefer them to be trigger happy than permissive. this shows some of the problems and gaps we have. we need to fill those as soon as possible. we've ascertained there is a threat. >> never want to hear anybody use those words together, trigger happy. >> no. >> apparently, that's the republican leader's position. >> joining us now, national security council coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby. very good to have you on the show this morning. does the white house -- are government officials ready to tell us what these objects were? they've got to have an idea. >> thanks, mika. appreciate having me on here. we are going to continue to share as much information with the american people as we can, as we learn more about these objects. the truth is that we haven't

been able to gain access to the three that were shot down friday, saturday and yesterday. in large part because of the weather conditions. the third one, yesterday, was shot down over lake huron. it's underwater. we're going to do everything we can to recover them. as soon as we do that, we'll be learning more about them and can share what we can learn with the american people. >> admiral, is there a possibility that these objects could be from -- could they be commercial in nature? could it be -- >> private? >> -- from a tech company that, you know, you've got google earth and you have other people that want to map out the entire earth. is that a possibility that you all are considering? >> absolutely, joe. i mean, there could be completely benign and totally explainable reasons for why these objects are flying around up there. certainly don't have to be nefarious at all. there are corporate entities that operate these kinds of things. there are academic research institutions that do this sort of thing.

we just don't know. as soon as we can find out, we can get the debris and find out, we'll absolutely share what we can. >> admiral, talk about the danger for commercial airliner going at a very high rate of speed, at 40,000 feet, coming up on one of these things suddenly could take them down. >> that was one of the reasons why we took these actions over the last three days, joe. because of the altitude these things were flying and the size, which was very, very small. compared to the chinese spy balloon we spot down a couple weeks ago, these were much smaller. they were at altitudes of, friday and saturday, 40,000 feet. yesterday was lower, around 20,000 feet. you can understand our concern with respect to civil air traffic. civil air traffic is around 30,000 feet, at least the ones flying across the continent. that was a real concern. >> it's richard haass. have we had any communications here with any foreign governments? do we have interest in setting

up the rules of the road about these balloons or anything else? where do we fit diplomatically on this? >> with respect to these three over the weekend, we haven't had conversations with foreign governments, other than our canadian allies to the north, of course. we coordinated with the shootdown on saturday with them. but we have communicated to dozens of other countries about the chinese spy balloon program, which is something we've been studying since we came into office and have learned a lot more about that. we know that those balloons have traversed across many different countries, across many different continents. we've been reaching out to allies and partners in the countries to let them know what we have learned about that. rules of the road, we're going to continue monitoring the air space, and we'll be communicating public and privately that we will be defending the air space. if an object poses a safety or

flight risk, or a possible surveillance risk, we'll take the action to defend our national security interests. >> are we on the idea to limit this, or do we want to use balloons ourselves in some circumstances? >> these objects can serve -- potentially we'll know what they are when we get them up -- but they can serve valid, completely benign purposes, whether it is scientific research. it's not about banning them but making clear the air space rules. >> want to get your reaction to beijing breaking news the last hour or two. the foreign ministry accused the united states since 2022 of flying balloons ten different times over chinese air space. can you respond?

>> not true. not doing it. absolutely not true. >> let me push you further then. the u.s. is not using these balloon technologies over china? >> that is right. we are not flying balloon over china. that is absolutely true. >> lastly, will that viewpoint be expressed directly to beijing, beyond here on the friendly confines of "morning joe"? when do the next conversations start between washington and beijing over a matter that's clearly inflaming tensions twoen the two countries? >> we have diplomatic relations with china. we still have an embassy there. it is not like all communications between us and the prc shut down. there are certain vehicles, like military to military, not open, which is unfortunate. we have the ability to communicate directly with the chinese leaders, ask we have in private settings about our concerns over the spy balloon. >> vintage kirby. not true, no balloons. >> the quote is, we are not

flying balloons over china. >> okay. >> and so let's move from balloons and china and unidentified objects flying over the great lakes to the russia-ukraine war. we're coming up on the one year anniversary of the launch date. things seem to be getting more grim by the moment. what is the white house's position? what is the pentagon's position on where this war is going in it seems to get bloodier by the day. >> especially in the donbas, bakhmut. perhaps russians will wantcrime. we are going to continue to provide support to ukraine, so when the conditions improve, when we expect the russians to try to go on the offense, the

ukrainians can better defend themselves. in fact, they'll have the opportunity to go on the offensive if they desire, as well. we're sort of in a bit of a lull because of the weather. it is just not permissive for a lot of ground operations. we do expect that as the weather improves, the fighting will probably intensify. unfortunately. you know, it is incredible you and i are talking about a year after this. i mean, nobody would have expected that when this started that the ukrainians would be able to fight as bravely and as skillfully as they have. certainly, nobody wants to see this war go on another day. yet alone into another year. mr. putin can do the right thing, joe. pull his troops out of ukraine, call it a day, and admit that this is a folly. this is a failed effort of his. unfortunately, he hasn't done that. in fact, he is doing the opposite. he is flying drones and cruise missiles again the last 48, 7 hours, trying to brutalize the ukrainian people. obviously, it's not going to work. >> the cause for the russians themselves, horrific.

we had admiral stavridis on earlier talking about british intel estimates, that the russians are now losing casualty wise, 1,000 russian soldiers a week. what is the white house's best estimate for the casualties that have been inflicted on the russians the last year? >> clearclearly, we know they'v suffered a lot of casualties. it is tens of thousands, if not more, if you could wounded and injured. you don't have to look further than bakhmut. they're taking convicts out of prison and putting them into the battlefield without training, proper arms and ammunition. they're throwing bodies at the fight. now, they're talking about other mobilization. we'll see if it happens. >> national coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, always great to have you on. retired rear admiral john kirby. thank you very much. good to see you.

trump and his foerm erforme adviser, no conflict there, jared kushner, according to "the washington post," quote, the day after leaving the white house, kushner created a company he transformed months later into a private equity firm with $2 billion from a sovereign wealth fund, chaired by the saudi crown prince. it continues, substantial investments by the saudis in enterprises that benefits both men came after they cultivated close ties with muhammad while trump was in office, helping the crown prince's standing by scheduling trump's first presidential trip to saudi arabia. backing him amid numerous international crises and meeting with him repeatedly in d.c. and the kingdom. kushner and trump both declined

to comment to "the post" on this story. a spokesman for the audi public investment fund did not respond to "the post's" request for comment. oversight committee chair james comer was asked if his committee will be investigating this report. >> everything is on the table. i don't disagree with the democrats and their criticism of the previous administration. we have a problem here that needs a legislative solution. that's why this biden investigation is so important. it is a legislative solution to this, and it can be bipartisan. republicans are complaining about the entire biden family's foreign business dealings. we need to know what is allowable and what isn't. we need strict ethics laws and need to increase the disclosure laws in america. >> let's bring in the reporter behind this story. investigative reporter for "the washington post," co-author of the biography entitled "trump

revealed." thanks for being on this morning. what more can you tell us about exactly how much money the trumps, via jared kushner, were able to bring in? also, is it possible that the oversight committee will actually look into this relationship? >> well, thanks for having me. yeah, there was a lot of money that came from the public investment fund, which is the sovereign wealth fund of saudi arabia, chaired by muhammad bin salman. "new york times" last year reported that the if i understand advisers recommended against this investment into the kushner equity fund, but salman overruled them. according to the rules in the united states, they didn't have to disclose the investors on the form. some people in congress say that in and of itself is a problem. also, there is no requirement

that president trump or jared kushner report this. so there was really very little transparency transparency. there is a lot there if the committee wants to pick up what democrats started last year. they sent a letter to jared kushner asking for more information. with the turnover to the republicans, the investigation basically has not continued actively in the same way it was going to. if comer wants to pick this up, there is a lot there to look at, a lot of documents they might be able to look at. maybe they have communications between the crown prince and jared kushner. there's a lot there they might want to look at in terms of whether laws need to be changed to provide more disclosure. >> good morning. it is jonathan lemire. let's take a look and underscore how cozy the relationship was president trump administering and saudis. first trip was to riyadh. kushner and bs had a what's app

conversation going. there was cover after the jamal khashoggi murder. this has been going on for quite some time. we know the investment with curb kushner. what's the sense of how trump may or may not have benefitted from the financial relationship, in or out of office? >> yes, one of the things in the story we tried to do is lay out how there was this close relationship between trump, kushner and bin salman. without the relationship, he may not have rose to the crown prince and then made it to the throne. when the cia made the finding that bin salman ordered the killing or capture of jamal ka khashoggi, "the washington post" columnist, many thought it was the end for bin salman.

but trump later told "the washington post" associate editor bob woodward he had, quote, saved, unquote, bin salman. after the trump administration leaves office, there's the $2 billion that goes to kushner's equity fund. then in response to your question, the same public investment fund then has funded this golf tournament called liv, l-i-v golf, in competition with the pga. it held two tournaments at trump's golf curiouscourses las holding thee this year. the fact trump is running for re-election, he hasn't cut this off. we don't know how much he is making. it is opaque. typically, you'd get millions of dollars for each tournament. we simply don't know. trump said it is worth billions to the saudis to have the tournaments played at his courses. he sees value there.

we simply don't know how much he is getting for the tournaments at the various golf courses. >> michael, al sharpton. one of the things that's important about what you're raising in the book is i think people forget that the prince was really accused and proven to have been behind one of the most vicious killings, assassinations, for a journalist that was really expressing and exposing what was going on in that country. forgetting for a moment how much money the former president and son-in-law got, the fact that they would bring this guy from a pariah statute, that the whole world was looking down on, and bring him back to where people could deal with him in a way that what he did was pardonable or forgivable sets a new low in how we deal with protecting free

speech, free press, journalism. i mean, it's almost like it's all right now to do what they did to khashoggi. >> well, you know, after trump lost the election, biden had said during his campaign that he'd make sure saudi arabia was treated like the, quote, pariah, unquote, they are. we now know biden went to the fist bump, famously, with the crown prince under a sort of real politic decision that they, in fact, did have to deal with saudi arabia. so that's where we are. in fact, very importantly, there was a case here in washington, d.c., where there was an effort to bring some justice to this case. the u.s. government basically said, because bin salman has simultaneously been promoted to the prime minister, that he had immuity from this case. it meant he had immunity in other efforts going on in other places in the world. it is possible, efforts are

still ongoing to bring justice to the case. but he was immune in this important washington, d.c. case, and they let him off the hook, according no those allied with khashoggi. they do feel this was a way that win salman did escape being held accountable. >> all right. political investigative reporter for "the washington post," michael, thank you so much. greatly appreciate you being here. jonathan lemire, we're talking about $2 billion here. we could also talk about all the things that happened every day that donald trump was in the white house where he cashed in in a way that, again, it's remarkable nobody wants to investigate on the republican side of congress. just look. you know, he buys the trump hotel in washington before he's president. has it when he is president. you know, quietly, foreign leaders understand, if they want to be in the president's good graces, they have to stay there. it becomes sort of the hotbed.

trump tries to make money off of it. the second he loses, you know, suddenly, he's selling it. it's no longer the trump hotel there. you look at the other family deals going on. yeah, $2 billion is the big one, but there was day in and day out, there were different stories of this guy grifting off his position. remember mike pence and secret service flying hundreds of miles out of the way to stay at a trump hotel? i think they were in ireland. >> yeah. >> unbelievable. >> one example after another. remember, ivanka trump pursued patents in china while donald trump was president. we know that the president, then president trump, would stay at his properties nearly every weekend, forcing secret service to pay for hotel rooms. you mentioned the d.c. hotel, tens of thousands at times foreign governments would drop to stay there.

richard haass, breathtaking stuff. we were aware of this throughout his time in office. this story points, rel aly uncovers the amount that went to kushner afterwards, funding his entity right now. money coming directly from the crown prince whom he had a cozy relationship with and forced policy. >> it could be corruption, a reward to the future. there is a chance donald trump and kushner will be back in the white house. it is not inconceivable. what makes it tough is the legitimate reasons to stay close to saudi arabia despite everything. given their relationship with israel, iran, energy issues, ro. the biden administration learned you can't treat them as a

pariah. the cowan prince could be in power for 50 years. there is nothing easy with this, beyond the trump family interest in saudi arabia. >> some reports over the past couple months, that donald trump is angry that it was kushner that got the $2 billion. he believes he should have had a sizable cut of the money. >> fitting and not surprising at all. we know one thing trump hates most of all, when people go famous or profit off his name. there has been tension between president trump and kushner. kushner and ivanka trump not part of his 2024 bid. >> not much. >> richard's new book is "the bill of obligations: the ten habits of good citizens." it is out now. thank you, richard. >> best seller. still ahead on "morning

joe," russian forces appear to be avaning in the eastern part of ukraine. a live report from kyiv as the war nears the one-year mark. plus, scranton joe is ready to go. we'll read from "the new york times" piece. big news on who is coming to the 30/50 summit in abu dhabi. "forbes" and know your value are spearheading an event around international women's day, just over three weeks ago. we'll be hearing from hillary clinton, gloria steinem, malala, misty copeland, billie jean king and so many others. >> do you have a special announcement coming out? >> i do. >> it's a big one. >> it's a big one. >> this is a big one. that's every one of those, the a big announcement. >> yeah. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ack.

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welcome back to "morp morning joe." sun is up over washington, 35 past the hour. let's get in a must-read opinion page. maureen dowd's latest column for "the new york times," "scranton joe is ready to go." she writes, in part, this, it's not really a scooby-doo mystery. no need to consult a soothsayer and tremble on the edge of your seats. joe biden is running. and that's no malarkey. biden has gone bigger than obama, who was supposed to be the transformational one. the president has pushed big job-creating bills and gone after big pharma and big corporations. unlike obama, who had an aversion to selling his policies, this guy loves a good groundbreaking. in the state of the union, the president began trying to

reconnect his party to its blue-collar roots. hillary thought she could win in 2016 with a new democratic coalition of minorities, the elite and students. she refused to give a speech at notre dame and never bothered to go to wisconsin. wisconsin was biden's first stop on wednesday in his post state of the union blitz. he remains unapologetically scranton joe. so, we know, joe, you're in the race. >> let's bring in founder and editor in chief of "talking points memo," josh, good to see you. maureen dowd says, scranton joe, we know you're in the race. would you agree? >> no question. i don't think there was much question before. after the state of the union, there is no question at all. >> finish the job. >> let's talk about -- that was a giveaway. let's talk about another thing maureen dowd picked up on, the

enduring mystery, it was written in 2004, the what's wrong with kansas mystery? people on the left, center left, have been asking for years, why do so many working class americans vote against their own economic interest? does biden seem to be focusing in on that more than recent democratic candidates? >> i think he is in a way. kansas is a conservative state. in itself, i'm not sure there is a huge mystery. yeah, i think, you know, you mentioned -- or dowd mentioned that barack obama was supposed to be the transformative one. it's really joe biden who has changed really the paradigm for how democratic politics works in this country right now. not doing the clinton era of free trade, technocratic stuff. it is much more labor oriented. it is much more economic populism. i think that's something that, you know, there's a lot -- when

we talk blue collar, that can be a loaded word. but reconnecting with a part of the electorate that the democratic party hasn't, you know, connected with in the last generation. you know, you have to say, you look at where democrats get their votes, on the income scale and stuff. you know, dowd's comment about the elite is a little questionable. most working people, low-income people, vote for democrats. that's still the case. >> biden, the president is focusing on wisconsin. i'm sure he'll focus on michigan. he'll focus on pennsylvania. i mean, those the states that had commentators in 2012 talking about the blue wall. the electoral college's blue wall that would stop republicans from ever getting elected again. donald trump won wisconsin, michigan, washington and broke

the blue wall down very quickly. do you think if biden succeeds in rebuilding that blue wall in those three states, that, suddenly, the white house becomes out of reach or almost out of reach for republicans moving forward? i guess my question is, succinctly, should that be the democratic party's main focus, is winning back those three states and keeping them in the blue column? >> absolutely. those are key states. you also have these sort of rising democratic states, states that democrats hope will be, arizona, georgia. it's not ever going to be that the white house is out of reach for republicans. i mean, every race is too close for that. but, you know, in -- before we got to the call and response with marjorie taylor greene in the state o the union, if you listen to what he was saying tonally, these things about, you know, having a job, the pride of having a job, there were so many

things in that speech that were focused on mid-sized cities and small towns in post-industrial america. wisconsin, michigan, states like that. you can tell that's where they're aiming. that's where they should be aiming. just tonally, that is where joe biden is literally from. so that is, you know -- that's what they're about. that is the -- if they could win -- if they can hold those states, then, you know, arizona, georgia, you know, that just ups the margin. yeah, that's where the game is. the same way that it was in 2020, 2016. >> white house aides have soug suggested joe biden will be living in union halls across the midwest in the next two years. the call and response was, josh, of course, about the future of social security and medicare. since that speech, president biden has missed no opportunity to talk about rick scott's plan,

which would endanger funding for both. he is talking about it every less. he is more or less handing out rick scott's brochure to the gardeners. you wrote about this issue. >> yeah. >> tell us what you found. >> look, that is -- republicans have been after social security and medicare for generations. rick scott -- it is not -- as the president wanted to point out, he wasn't making it up. rick scott wanted that to be the center of their campaign. it's a great place for democrats and joe biden to be because if the republicans want to be saying for the next, you know, year and a half, litigating, are they against social security, do they want to cut it, democrats are fine with that. there was the famous pan shot they were doing during the state of the union. one of those was senator lee

from utah. as biden keeps saying, republicans want to cut social media. they panned to senator lee, he had this look of, like, are you kidding? this is outrageous. how can you be saying this? when he first ran for senate about a deade ago, there is video of him on the campaign trail saying, "i want to get rid of social security once and for all." that's not verbatim, but, i mean, what he said is even stronger. you know, root and branch, tear it out. this is real. republicans have always been hostile to social security and the principles that underlie it. you know, president bush tried to privatize it and phase it out, you know, 18 years ago. so it is a good policy place for democrats to be. and it is a good political place because, you know, most americans are looking forward to

getting social security when they're retirees, or, what we don't talk about a lot, if you are orphaned, you know, all these other ancillary things that social security does to insulate people from the risk that we all face in life. >> josh, just picking up on that point and saying, reading dowd's column, you know, i agree that joe biden has been transformative. i don't agree that obama wasn't, as well, because they had different challenges. one being race and a lot of other factors that biden didn't have to face. >> yup. >> putting that aside, isn't it also something of note that biden has been able in these two years to really balance this party? even the far left has sort of, like -- there is no major challenge to biden in the election. i mean, we're talking about changing the calendar with south carolina being first and so

forth. but we really are talking about primaries that won't be that much of a primary on the democratic side because there's no one of any gravity, gravitas, that is talking about challenging biden. isn't that also how internal politics is, he's been transformative. >> that is the case. to the extent that there are any issues for joe biden within the democratic party, it has to do with age. he's 80 years old. >> right. >> not only is there no person who is sort of, you know -- who might challenge him. there is no lane, really. there are certainly divisions in the democratic party, but not the kind of divisions where one wing of the party is saying, we're not being represented here. that's absolutely the case. i think -- i'm glad you said that. barack obama had a transformative presidency. i think when people look back, they look at things like fiscal

policy. and labor policy. they see, i think rightly -- i mean, it was a different time. if you look at larry summers, he was -- barack obama was still in the '90s/early mode for democrats. you wouldn't have heard barack obama, really many democrats at sort of the presidential level, a decade ago, 20 years ago, talking in a clear voice of economic nationalism, buy american, the importance of labor unions. that's just -- and a lot of that is joe biden. a lot of it is this is a different democratic party than it was even a decade ago. but he does get a lot of credit. you know, you do have these important wings in the congressional party. you have aoc. you have these problem solver types. yet, on all the big legislation,

he and nancy pelosi and chuck schumer have gotten them, you know, all on side. >> all right. founder and editor in chief of "talking points memo," josh marshall. thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. please come back. >> thank you for having me. absolutely. >> great to have you. coming up, the earthquakes lasted just moments, but the fallout will go on for years to come. we'll have an update from turkey, where the destruction is simply endless. "morning joe" will be back in a moment. lasses with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose.

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former vice president mike pence is scheduled to visit minneapolis and cedar rapids, iowa, this wednesday continuing considering a run for the white house. pence's camp says he will deliver remarks on quote combatting the radical left's indoctrination of children. his visit comes as a minnesota federal court hears arguments in a case regarding an iowa school

district's policy on transgender youth. the district adopted a policy to allow students to request a gender support plan to give them space to socially transition at school without the permission of the parents and allow an option to use bathrooms and locker rooms that correspond with their identity. pence will spend $1 million on ads in iowa about gender affirming policies in schools. meanwhile, former south carolina governor nikki haley will hold an event in charleston on wednesday expected to launch the campaign for the white house. joining us is lauren leader who has a new piece for politico entitled nikki haley's woman problem. you write in part this, as nikki haley kicks off her 2024

campaign this week in south carolina, one big question looms. will she have a fair shot as a woman candidate at a moment of maximal sexism in republican politics? under the best of circumstances woman who run for president face a particularly pernicious strain of american gender bias. it's not just trump or right wing extremist men that push sexist ideology in the party. greene and biobert embraced feminism. politics is as much about time and place as it is for talent. the hurdles for a woman in the party are exceptional high. whether we agree with nikki haley's positions or not we

should all root far level political playing field that stays in the bound of decency and the chances that happens are slim to none. but, lauren, does she have a chance to maybe define herself as a female republican candidate and take on positions that perhaps other republicans are too dumb to realize most american people are already there? >> that's a big question and remains to be seen. we have seen this before. i have a lot of response to the piece which ran yesterday from folks who say what about the republican women governors around the country? i happen to believe that presidential politics is a completely different ball game and the national scrutiny is different. you have folks anti-woman and a thing i call it in the piece is we understand that nick fuentes

who famously has had lunch or dinner with trump at mar-a-lago is how anti-woman he is. he is someone that said women should not have the right to vote and should be veiled. a lot of groups aligned with the stop the steal rally and involved on the attack on the capitol have hateful anti-woman rhetoric so much so that the southern law center tracks them as hate groups. i think she walks in a moment with every right to be on the national stage we have known for a while she would probably do this. can she get a fair shot? i hope she can. >> i have dealt with her when she was governor of south carolina around the confederate flag issues. charming person. certainly has the skills of i

think to go national but the two issues surprise me that was raised in the state at the time that i hear nationally is the woman issue and that she is nonwhite. i will -- how will the fact she is not considered by some like you brought up fuentes as all the way a white candidate and a woman kapd? how does the combination of the two play in republican primaries? >> i think we are about to find out and it is complicated. the base of the republican party has become whiter and male over the last six years and that's the demographic reality of who votes in republican primaries. some ways i feel like running six or eight years ago it would have been a different base.

the core is sort of white purist. it is really -- we have talked about it so much on the show. i watch to see. we saw what happened to carly fear ri no. i hope she doesn't and we will be part of calling it. fair game on policy and politics but veering into overtly sexist we have a responsibility to push it out. >> some republicans are pushing for a national ban on abortion and our next guest said such a push by republicans would be beneficial for democrats. cnbc founder tom rogers joins us now. you say, yeah, go ahead, please. get around that republican ban, abortions. do it, do it, republicans.

>> absolutely. good morning. i think there are quick five reasons to advantage democrats. i call this the wish upon a star issue for democrats. stop totally all abortion rights. first the 2022 midterms probably the biggest issue to allow democrats to beat expectations. secondly, you want to take as much energy away from the states where they really do have anti-abortion forces have an ability to tighten up the anti-abortion laws and take away exceptions to allow abortions. putting more energy there it may take the pressure off that activity. third, donald trump has understood how much of a loser issue this is for republicans and the right to life con sit western sy is moving away from him. he appointed the supreme court

justices that allowed roe to be overturned leaving the right to life constituency which is huge in republican primaries available for other republican candidates to to cater to. if somebody other than trump emerges allows them to be weakens with a national abortion ban issue. pence adopted that stand. four, mccarthy and the house republicans will be a comically incompetent foil to run against in 2024 with a ridiculous investigations and all but that issue doesn't have the emotional punch, the ability to tie together the women and really use that as a basis to help democrats in 2024. lastly, we learned that extremism is really rejected by

voters. nothing painted a trenlism than abortion ban. president trump threw out the line i will veto a national abortion ban. he knows the senate will never pass a national abortion ban but helping to stimulate that issue will help democrats. >> all right. tom rogers, thank you. the new piece is online this week for "newsweek." lauren leader's new piece is out for politico. the top of the hour. there is growing concern in the skies after the u.s. military shot down yet another unidentified object, this time in michigan, coming after two other issues were also taken out over the weekend. nbc news correspondent tom costello has more on this

mysterious trend. >> reporter: across america's northern states into canada american and canadian militaries are on high alert this morning after shooting down three unidentified flying objects since friday. the most recent sunday over lake huron. >> i need answers. >> reporter: here a dramatic weekend. targeted and shot down objects over alaskan waters on friday, the yukon on saturday. >> made the decision to shoot down the object that was a threat to civil aviation. >> reporter: it is not clear who might be sending the objects, whether designed for intelligence gathering or something else but the department of defense said it flew in proximity to sensitive sites. they worry it could be a serious risk to commercial aviation and passenger planes. sunday the faa issued airspace

restrictions over lake michigan to support defense activities. >> what's gone on has been nothing short of craziness. >> reporter: the weekend shootdowns come after a fighter jet took out that suspected chinese spy balloon nine days ago after it spent days flying across the u.s. why now the u.s. military is looking at a wider range of radar data. two u.s. defense officials tell nbc news objects that once michb filtered out are getting intense scrutiny. >> let's bring in he lene cooper. the pentagon is not talking about the other objects saying what they are or might be. we had admiral kirby on this morning. what are you hearing them talk

about the range of possibility being for the objects? >> hi. thank you for having me. you have heard and mentioned what the pentagon says publicly which is that we don't know and the reality is they are not sure. absent surety they don't want to speculate. when you ask them to speculate they say what they seem to be coa lesing around is most likely probability is looking a lot harder in after finding the chinese spy balloon. when you look harder you find more things. it opened up the capture a lot more. one official said it could be a lot of space junk and seem to believe they are from adversaries. not just harmless hometown

scientists put stuff up. they believe there's a strong possibility they could be things, low tech spy balloons from -- although one they said is not a balloon at all. but they could be low tech apparatus from russia or china who are just sort of probing our defenses. the issue for the biden administration becomes how do you walk this balance between protecting america's spies and then getting just spun up about every little piece of space junk out there? you could see russia or china trying to for want of a better word yank our chain. we'll shoot them down. that will get really expensive real fast.

there's a lot of decisions that have to be made at the white house but the first thing they can't approach making the decisions about how to respond until they know what the things actually are. >> right now it sounds like their assumption it is not commercial aircraft, not from a google or some other silicon valley company trying to map things out, not from universities trying to get data. that they think the objects come from people who consider themselves enemies of the united states. >> they don't know. that's -- that's just the strongest theory. they admit it could be -- on friday they said who knows? university of alaska could have something up there they didn't register.

most companies they register with norad or northcom or whatever authorities before sending objects up into the sky so there are theories but won't say exactly. they don't say what it is. they can't really talk about the theories publicly until they know what they are dealing with and they -- earlier this weekend i thought they know but they don't want to say but i believe they don't know now. >> we are coming up on the one-year anniversary of russia's invasion of ukraine. what's the pentagon's 30,000-foot view right now? it changed from time to time over the past year. a few months they were talking about the possibility of a long winter. very active spring and peace

talks into the summer or fall. what are you hearing? >> nobody's talking about peace talks at the moment but they do think that the spring is going to get much more active, particularly for ukraine. they want to rush as much weaponry to get to the front into the hands of ukrainians because they think ukraine when the spring comes has a very good -- an opportunity to really go on the offense, particularly in the southeast targeting that land bridge that connects crimea with russia. those are the turns along that road. what we mean is the road that connects crimea with southern ukraine and they want to help

ukraine push russia back there and to help ukraine push russia back in the donbas and then see peace talks but they think they have to strengthen zelenskyy more. that's in the hands of volodymyr zelenskyy, as well. everybody's talking about a russian offensive. you see the fighting around bakmudt. russia expended untold thousands upon thousands of lives to take the small town, to take what the pentagon views as a not important place. another city would be the next russian offensive but the pentagon doesn't believe that russia has the combat power to take that next city so you are

looking at things picking up on the ukraine offense as spring comes around and i don't know -- i'm not sure what russia is doing. >> pentagon correspondent for "the new york times" helene cooper, thank you. senator jon fetterman is expected to return to capitol hill today after being discharged from the hospital on friday. the pennsylvania democrat was first admitted to the hospital last wednesday after feeling lightheaded in a lawmaker retreat. doctors at george washington university hospital say he did not suffer from a new stroke or a seizure. he was elected to the senate in november while recovering from a stroke he suffered during the primary in may. a study in california shows black families are hit the

hardest by childbirth death rates. the study examined 2 million california births from 2007 to 2016. the first to combine income tax data with birth death and hospitalization records as well as demographic data. it is showing that the richest black mothers and babies twice as likely to die as the richest white mothers and babies. researches found that black mothers and babies had worse outcomes than those asian, hispanic or white in whether or not the baby is premature or underweight. if the mother's had birth related health issues and if the babies or mothers died. >> let's bring in curt anderson,

the author of best selling books, "fantasyland" and "evil geniuses." let's go to you first. what needs to be underlined in this "the new york times" story out yesterday, a couple things. first of all, they did this in study in california which arguably has some of the best health care outcomes in the united states and even taking the best case scenario it wasn't mississippi or alabama or louisiana or arkansas or the states near bottom in health care but california that pours money into health care. the outcomes were miserable, especially for black mothers and black children where even the richest black families fared worse than the poorest white

families. explain. >> i think that it begs for explanation that i don't think is a simple explanation. i have heard some argue from the standpoint that even the wealthiest black was raised in an environment that may have not be as conscious of what to do in terms of prenatal environmental settings because they are the children or grand children of people that didn't have that health information available to them. i heard people go to genetics. i think it is something that's very important that the study now be explored as to why it's happening and how we deal with it. i don't buy that it is genetic but i'm not one to say that we can easily guess on what is happening here particularly dealing with people at the highest income levels in the

black community. i think we need to find the answer. >> curt, we have been talking with you. you have come on lot talking about your book "evil geniuses" and a 30-year game plan to move income to the richest americans and true to form you look at any data out there, any data it shows that, yes, there is income transfers. conservatives claim they hate transferring income one to another. it's happened except it's gone the opposite way. and the rich continue to get richer. at the same time republicans all hated it seems the affordable care act. obamacare. they said they had a better plan. they had no plan for a dozen years. is this the result? don't fund health care.

don't come up with a national plan. and allow these disparities to continue. >> absolutely. the other part of the evil geniuses game plan that they succeeded at successfully is turning so much of the health care system into a private equity controlled set of businesses rather than the nonprofit and mission directed operations they used to be which can help seems to me from making the -- all the health outcomes and this maternal and infant one in california is extreme and vivid but all of our health outcomes are worse thanup and elsewhere. a great chart that tells a lot is comparing the united states in terms of maternal health,

infant survival is black mothers and babies do much worse than american mothers and babies of any other race but americans in general do worse than french, swedish, the whole gamut. >> it is not close. you look at the numbers. it is not even close. if you are a mother in america you have twice the chance of dying in childbirth as france. if you're a mother in america probably three, four, five times the chance of dying than if in sweden or if you're in other countries. look at these numbers. new zealand, norway, germany, sweden, switzerland. it is not even close.

australia. the uk. keep going down the list. canada, france. not even close. >> and that same thing is true. again, this is grows toing and amazing and shameful. look at life expectancies as a main outcome. 40 years ago we were all about the same with the same increasing life expectancy. last 40 years in the hijacking of our system what happened? we now have life expectancy of less than the other countries. >> as an example serena williams says she nearly died in childbirth. they had to beg for care to get what she needed. we have diagnosed the problem here. what are the possible solutions? >> we talk about systemic this and that.

this is so clear because of this study. not necessarily a sample of outcomes. it is the state of california, the progressive not so bad state of california, over every child and mother, first-time mother and baby for a decade. this is not a cherry picked bad news study. it is the system. i don't know enough about how our prenatal care and post-natal care not as good and effective as every other country like us in the world, my god, if we talk about national goals that need to be done this is one because it isn't just alabama or arkansas or oklahoma. it is california. i'm sure if a comparable study done in new york state it wouldn't be any different. >> this needs to be prioritized.

it is a problem that's been sneaking up on us, especially black maternal health. we'll revisit the issue. to other forms of politics. a fight over spending for retirement benefits. let's bring in nbc news senior political reporter sahil kapur live on capitol hill. keeps hammering away at it because it is true. >> republicans keep talking about it. we even had on sunday shows this weekend some republicans saying the quiet part out loud playing into joe biden's game plan. >> reporter: that's right. we saw this fight bubble up at the state of the union and only heating up since then. essentially it is a strange dynamic where republicans ask president biden stop attacking

us on social security and medicare. president biden said no. let's look at what steve scalise told me the day after the state of the union. the president for a few weeks falsely saying people want to get rid of social security and medicaid. there's no truth to it. unquote. the white house's response, they say absolutely not. the white house and president biden are going to continue calling out the republicans because according to to the spokesman a wide range of republican lawmakers ebb dosed severe cuts to medicare and soerm security. he says complaining that the president is accurately shining a light on the plans is very much not the defense they think. what exactly is the white house referring to? what are the republican plans? i got a list of several that the white house has in mind.

one is senator rick scott. he proposed last year to sunset all federal laws every five years. senator ron johnson said that congress should approve the funding every year. if they don't the programs will run out of money. and then the republican study committee, a group of more than 100 house conservatives with a budget of 2023 with changes to slow the growth of benefits over the long haul and a transition to the premium support plan that paul ryan introduced a year ago. this fight will play out on capitol hill. the republicans calling for spending cuts and many experts

say if you exempt social skut and medicare you can't get to a balanced budget. many people saw former president biden's soft launch. president biden wants to ham esch republicans but there is a fiscal reckoning coming for the plans. they will dip into the red. the question is how you prevent -- what you do about it at that time. the republicans say cut the benefits. what democrats say is raise tax revenues to finance them and expand benefits. that's a position that president biden has taken. we'll hear more about this. >> all right. nbc's sahil kapur, thank you very much for that report. >> what's so fascinating is

republicans doing two things at once. first they say president biden, he's lying about us. nobody is saying that we want to cut search security or medicare. at the same time many of them including a senator this weekend criticizing rick scott that ran the republicans' senate campaigns saying that he wanted to do just that. so they attack one of their own for going after social security and medicare and then accusing the president of lying. we could get marco rubio's example and mike lee's example. they want to privatize and change social security.

privatize and change medicare. >> it is political jujitsu that president biden has done. getting the republicans to say this is not true. we don't believe this and got a win-win. they are as he sort of skillfully played in the state of the union got them saying, no, no we are all together. in the humorous like welcome, republicans. we won't cut social security or medicare. but there's senate and other republican leaders saying this is the goal. for decades the republican -- a consistent bits of republicanism with the other parts that have changed this -- we are

skeptical. we used to call them socialism. skeptical they need to be cut but the third rail quality of believing that is clear to them. they are squeezed. they are between a rock and a hard place they can't escape. if biden and the democrats want to hammer them on that it's a no-lose political position it seems to me. >> thank you so much for coming on this morning. ahead of a potential 2024 presidential election challenge, former president trump is road testing some new nicknames for florida governor ron desantis. >> started with ron -- then went to ron desank moan you. now what? fat ron? >> i don't like it. it's honestly triggered by it.

do not say meatball's name in vain. >> no. plus all the action from last night's super bowl game between the chiefs and the eagles and how kansas city closed the gap in the second half to be the super bowl champions. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ual customis your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. ♪ customize and save. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ there are some who want to divide us, to make a political point or turn a profit. joe biden just wants to get things done. in just two years, joe biden's done a lot. biden brought both parties together to rebuild our roads and bridges and passed laws that lower the cost of prescription drugs, deliver clean drinking water, and bring manufacturing jobs back to america. president biden knows we can get more done if we come together.

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you talk about joe biden a lot. i understand. you think you will be running against him. i can see how you might be confused. but you are running for governor. i have a question for you. look in the eyes of the people of the state of florida and say to them you will serve a full four-year term as governor. yes or no? yes or no, ron? will you serve a full four-year term if elected as governor of florida?

it is a fair question. he won't tell you. >> okay. >> later he blurted out i like purple. what? just awful. >> from charlie crist, how will he handle donald trump? new reporting from "the new york times" suggests governor desantis will take a similar tact and not lash out at donald trump, not yet, even as the former president steps up the attacks. why is this important? they were difficult. >> look at jeb. low energy jeb. lying ted. >> will it have the same impact? "the times" quote desantis pursued a strategy of conflict avoid dance delaying what is likely to be a clash to force the voters to pick sides.

according to "the times" trump has spent weeks trying to goad desantis. >> no mirrors at mar-a-lago. >> shutdown ron. a reference to restrictions on the covid pandemic. >> he can't read because if he could read his own press releases from the white house he told governors to shut down. >> asked about the trump attacks desantis reminded voters of the election losses. the advice would be that's what he should do. >> that is what he should do. i think desantis looked terrible in that debate. >> moderator is only one supposed to be asking questions

and might have been listening to the rules. the airport is disgusting. not defending him. >> you don't look that way in debates. i will say -- going to rev in a second. jonathan lemire, trump lost the fastball. the first nickname like ron super -- >> tough on a bumper stick every. hard to do. and then ron de-sank moan you. like a reliever that lost his stuff. throwing a fastball high. >> childish and ridiculous. >> of course it is. terrible. >> good nickname.

this one has a chance to stick. you are right. not very self aware of former president trump considering his own appearance. covid thing is interesting. desantis outside of the first couple weeks wept to the right of trump on pandemic response. i don't know that will play either. what this is about is the opening act. desantis has chosen not to respond and be above the fray. desantis supporters know that he is untested on the debate stage and trump is good at attacking political opponents. how do you see this playing out? >> what is interesting to me is how he froze in the debate more than how he responds to trump.

i ran in 2004 for president. when you get on the big stage it is different. i don't know desantis shown he can rise to the big stage. because i don't care how much pressure before that it's different. when you can't an answer you should have known was coming in the charlie crist segment we just showed and should have been prepared for that. acting like a wrestling match guy with trump is one thing but coming at you heard and not the friendly guys you will be tested. i don't know that desantis has showed us that he has the mettle to perform at that level. >> we can talk about it but on

the big stage it is like nothing before. >> some people take off in a way that's least expected. >> trump filled up the big stage and won the republican nomination because he could fill up the big stage. we have seen candidates that get up there and don't know how to fill up the big stage. so it is -- what is it? what did you say about -- what was the james brown quote? playing the clubs and arenas. >> first time i wept with him in las vegas i was like 20 and showed me the lounge. he says you see that lady swinging? there's a difference between a lounge act and in the showroom because the audience in the lounge smoking and drinking. on the big stage you got to

perform. those people paid $100 or more a head. i don't know that desantis showed us that he is prepared for the big stage. i don't know if desantis shown us he belongs on that stage. >> correct. and that's what makes a difference. we talk in the abstract but when you have the big stage and also a lot like boxing. mike tyson, everybody has a plan until you punch them in the mouth. all the smart money was on jeb bush. donald trump goes after him. that's the end of it. marco rubio, "time" magazine cover. donald trump makes fun of rubio for sweating. little marco. it is a nickname that has stuck

and people still in washington refer to him. not in front of the senator but refer to him as little marco. you can say the same thing for ted cruz and the people. and you know, the response, richard haas, doesn't have to be a response. you're so cute with the nicknames. try that on a group of people too stupid to respond. i can respond, donald. you know what else i can do? win. you can't. 2017 loser. 2018 loser. 2019 loser. 2020 loser. 2021 lose esch. 2022 loser. 2024 loser, donald. you figure out the cute names.

i'll figure out how to win for the republican party. but just if he comes with something strong and mocks him. pushes him to the side. no republican -- this is what i can't understand. nobody figured out how to do that and it is not that hard. >> can't beat something with nothing. i understand the tactics to not get down in the mud. then continue to push the cultural agenda. go after biden administration clearly with vulnerabilities. my instincts would be is desantis is right not to get into a slinging match with trump. he's gotten where he is by not doing that. i think he has things to attack the biden administration for and the republicans could use an agenda. it would be nice if a republican

candidate came through with a serious agenda. i haven't heard it yet. >> a serious agenda. never fight somebody on the ground. never give them the high ground. never let them maintain the balance. look at the 16 people that ran against trump in 2016. they all let him define the debate. it was like he is such a disrupter. insulting people. you pull back and figure out how do i disrupt his attempts to disrupt and make him fight on my terms? if you have half a brain you figure out how to do that. every republican in 2016 was reacting to his shock opera. let's see if desantis can figure out a better way to do it. >> he has a record that the republicans can talk about and put into words.

coming up, live to the pentagon where officials are investigating what's behind the unidentified objects shot down over the united states and canada. what the department of defense is saying about all that straight ahead on "morning joe." power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are.

. it is time now for a look at the morning papers, headlines making news across the country. "the state" has a feature on nikki haley's expected presidential announcement. the republican is holding an event in charleston on wednesday where she will likely launch the campaign for the white house

going up against former president trump who currently is the only republican to announce a presidential bid. in north carolina, the u.s. army is struggling to recruit new members because the younger generation is worried about the safety. the head of army marketing said young people don't see the army as being relevant in their lives. last year the army had the worst recruiting year in decades. the south jersey times leads with a poll that finds the majority of new jersey residents want high schools to start later. 55% of those polled supported a bill to set 8:30 a.m. an earliest high school can start. the average high school starts just before 8:00 a.m. finally, the day reports

connecticut lawmakers propose a bill to require social media companies get parental consent for any user 16 and understood. supporters say it could help improve their mental health and protect privacy. we'll go live to ukraine to hear from a veteran training the civilians. raf sanchez joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." doesn't. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose.

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former president trump's 2020 presidential campaign former president trump's 2020 presidential campaign reportedly paid a research firm to find evidence of voter fraud, but kept the findings secret when no proof was found. the "washington post" reports the campaign never released the

final results after the research team disputed many of trump's theories and could not find any evidence that he actually won the election. that is according to four people familiar with the matter. the post writes, the campaign paid researchers from the berkeley research group to study 2020 election results in six states looking for fraud and irregularities to highlight in public and in the court. among the areas examined were voter machine malfunctions, instances of dead people voting and any evidence that could help trump show he won. trump continues to push the big lie today despite the commissioned research saying otherwise. in a statement a berkeley research group spokesperson said, quote, our experts provide

independent factual analysis and as a matter of policy, we do not comment on client engagements or on privileged and confidential matters. a trump spokesman responded with a statement attacking joe biden and suggesting trump won the election. since the election that he lost, multiple courts and swing states have confirmed former president trump did not win. let's bring in former u.s. attorney joyce vance. what do you think is important about this news as it pertains to the big lie and legal efforts to prove that donald trump was trying to overturn the election and knew he lost? >> it's important evidence for the special counsel to have, mika. we've talked for months now about the fact that prosecutors will have to prove that the former president knew he had lost, but nonetheless carried

out the conduct connected with january 6th in his effort to prevent certification of the vote. so the way prosecutors do that isn't just with one piece of evidence. what you really need is layer upon layer of circumstantial evidence. you don't have a confession from trump that he knew, so you achieve your proof as a prosecutor by showing through multiple people and events that there's strong indication that he knew. at this point when you have an outside independent firm that's highly regarded confirming there was no fraud involved in the election, if prosecutors can prove that was communicated to trump, it's really the nail in the coffin. >> let's talk also on january 6th some news that the special counsel jack smith issued a subpoena to former vice president mike pence. pence's team has not commented whether they're going to comply. do they have any ability to not comply with the subpoena from

the special counsel? speak to us what an escalation in some ways this is, that this special counsel is not just focused on mar-a-lago documents, you're focused on january 6th and the innermost members of trump's circle. >> we have gotten so used to the former president getting away with running circles around the legal system that people might forget that compliance with the federal grand jury subpoena is not optional. mike pence will show up, he will testify. trump's attorneys likely will try to litigate executive privilege claims. they won't work, because executive privilege is meant to protect communications a president has as part of his governance of the country. it's not meant to protect crimes or presidents who are trying to hold onto power after they've lost an election. so pence will testify. as you point out, it really is an escalation in the special counsel's tactics that suggests that he is at the point where he needs to talk to the essential

witness. mike pence, the only person other than trump who knows exactly what happened on both sides of that phone call on the morning of january 6th. coming up, we'll talk with the oscar nominated director of one of the best documents of the year. the film is called "a house made of splinters." it's a powerful project that took sundance by storm. it's a powerful project that took sundance by storm

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e.t. phone home. >> my god, he's talking. ♪♪ >> e.t. phone home? >> e.t. phone home. >> what are they saying to each other? >> seems they're trying to teach us the basic tonal vocabulary. >> it's the first day of school, fellas. >> welcome to earth. >> shotgun. what good is a shotgun? >> you're going to talk us right into a grave. you're going to let whatever it is walk right over us. well, some of us won't. >> just prepping ourself for any

potential news from the pentagon about those unidentified objects floating over the u.s. and canada, although some republican members of congress think shooting at the sky is the answer. >> oh my god. >> that's a senator from ohio on the right. fantastic. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." >> what a year arc for him. >> i think i'll just say it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. we have a lot to get to. >> we need to start with the super bowl. jonathan lemire, quite a gain. kansas city wins their third super bowl. mahomes is lining up pretty well at 27. he's got two super bowls under his belt. he could make a path to that pantheon of great nfl quarterbacks with a few more

victories. >> we won't compare him to tom brady just yet. but patrick mahomes is off to a legendary start to his career. he's been a starter for five years, afc title game all five, three super bowls, won two of them. last night limping around on a bad ankle, made a couple of great runs. subplot, eagles' defense just doesn't show up in the second half. that overshadows jalen hurts, who was great as quarterback. it's a shame that there's a cloud over it because of a pretty shaky call at the end, a defensive holding that gave the chiefs the ability to run out the clock before kicking the game-winning field goal. >> though the person who was flagged on that play actually said he did hold, i'm not exactly -- see, right there,

just a little tug of the shirt. man, you and i, on sundays after we watch liverpool lose in the morning, we turn on red zone. we've both seen that a million times not be called. it was called last night at a pretty inopportune time. >> that technically was a penalty, but as you say, that kind of happens on every play. when an official throws a flag right there with two minutes to go, he's basically throwing the game to the chiefs. it felt like at the time of ma magnitude, let them play. especially since most of the game they had let them play. it was not a very tightly officiated game and it felt like the wrong moment for a call like that. >> we saw the second half, the

difference between people who have been there before and people who haven't. jalen hurts, a great quarterback, he's going to have some super bowl victories under his belt before it's all over, just a great quarterback. but it was his first super bowl. you have mahomes, who's been there. you talked about the number of times he's been there, very experienced. man, when he needed to come through at the right time even on a busted ankle, what an incredible scramble. you can't say enough about future hall of fame coach andy reid. he dialled up the right play time and time again in the second half. he kept the eagles off balance, a great eagles defense. you look at some of the touchdowns and a lot of misdirection. he looked like a hall of famer last night. he called the plays correctly every time.

>> this was andy reid's finest hour. he was magnificent yesterday. to your point on hurts, he was great. he did have that terrible fumble where he dropped the ball that led to a chiefs' touchdown. the super bowl is a very different game. it's much longer, commercials are much longer, the halftime show is 40 minutes. you have to pace yourself. eagles ran out of gas at the end. chiefs came on strong. >> if you watched last night's big game, chances are you watched it live. that's a rarity in today's era of cord cutting and a major reason behind the skyrocketing price tags of nfl franchises. andrew ross sorkin will join us to break down the business of the super bowl. we'll also have the latest on the war in ukraine, where

russian casualties continue to rise. one american special forces veteran is assisting ukrainian fighters. and the death toll from the powerful earthquakes in turkey and syria has now passed an unbelievable 35,000. we'll bring you the latest details on the rescue efforts still under way. we begin this hour with the growing questions surrounding the white house's decision to shoot down three more unidentified flying objects over the weekend less than a week after the u.s. military brought down a suspected chinese spy balloon off the coast of south carolina. the skies were active again. on friday, president joe biden ordered the military to shoot down an object flying near the northern coast of alaska at around 40,000 feet. the object was roughly the size of a small car and was flying

low enough that it posed a threat to civilian flights. on saturday at the request of canadian prime minister justin trudeau u.s. fighter jets shot down another object, which was small and cylindrical, flying over the country's yukon territory. and on saturday u.s. military was sent to montana to investigate an anomaly picked up on radar, but they were unable to find the source. officials say the radar blip reemerged overnight on saturday and after floating over lake huron near michigan president biden made the call to bring it down. it was called an octagonal structure with strings hanging off of it with no discernible payload. according to china, more than

ten balloons have flown in its air space without permission. we asked admiral john kirby about that accusation. >> i want to get your reaction to breaking news out of beijing. the foreign minister has accused the united states since the start of 2022 of flying balloons ten different times over chinese air space. can you respond to that accusation? >> not true. not doing it. just absolutely not true. >> he exact quote, we are not flying balloons over china. >> yeah. probably never expected he'd be saying that. joining us from the pentagon dan deloose and barry mccaffrey. dan, i'll start with you and ask if you have any more reporting to add to what i've already said about several objects now and whether or not they're all

connected. >> we don't know. that is the really frustrating answer. but i think there was some interesting details that came out over the weekend. they're saying at norad they have opened the aperture on how they read the radar data. where they may have ignored some of the smaller, slower objects out there, they're now looking at those. the question is, are there more than there were before or have they always been there and we've ignored? the northern command chief was asked, can you tell us what these are? he wasn't even ready to characterize these three objects shot down in the past few days. a huge uncertainty about what we're dealing with. keep in mind there's no evidence that these objects were armed

somehow or that north america was under attack. and also there is a total plausible scenario where these are relatively mundane objects, perhaps research type of systems that are gathering data and are not nefarious. just a huge amount of uncertainty here. it is frustrating to try to figure out what's going on. >> a lot of questions right now. general mccaffrey, thanks for being with us. what's chief among your concerns from these four objects shot down? secondly, if you were advising the president, what would you be telling him? >> the important part of the story is we have brought into focus that the chinese have been running a global intelligence collection strategy using balloons. there are probably aspects of

that d.o.d. did understand. a balloon came down. they had discovered four earlier incursions into the united states this year. we're going to have to take into account a new intelligence threat from the chinese. they've got 260 satellites collecting on us. they have an active cyber intrusion program. they have a healthy, robust human intelligence collection program. now we've got to sort out what to do about these balloons. we do have persistent latency eyes on target and we're going to have to do something about it. norad, very sophisticated and capable, they primarily look for incoming icbm missiles and high performance aircraft. now they're going to have to sort out balloon technology.

>> it seems to me that perhaps the pentagon knows a little bit more about these objects than they're letting on. after all, the assessment was made by fighter pilots that they were unmanned. they weren't going to shoot something out of the sky that had a person in it. knowing that, the pentagon is i saying they want to reserve judgment. is there a timeline on when they should be able to retrieve what they shot down? i know winter weather poses a challenge. >> unfortunately, they can't even give us a timeline. believe me, we are all asking here. especially in that one on friday off the northern coast of alaska, we're talking 30 below or colder. there's snow and ice. that is not an easy task. we don't know how fast that will happen. northern canada, the object there, that's also cold. god knows it's not very warm in

michigan right now. what is key here is recovering what has been shot down and analyzing it and seeing if there's a connection, if there are patterns. it's interesting, no institution or research organization or private company has come forward publicly and said that could be ours. that would be interesting if that happened, but that has not happened. back to what the general is saying, it's a little bit like after 9/11 where you change what you're looking for. this whole radar air defense system was set up to track incoming missiles or bombers and so on. now we're going to be looking at these smaller, slower objects. i think it's going to take a while for the system to adjust. i don't think there's a policy yet about how to handle it. each one is being handled on a case-by-case basis, and i'm not sure that's tenable.

>> thank you for your reporting. so one week from today president biden will travel to poland to reaffirm support for ukraine around the war's one-year mark. while there, he'll meet with poland's president as well as the leaders of the so-called bucharest nine, a bloc of nato allies on europe's eastern flank. the group was formed in 2015 in response to russia's annexation of crimea. while in poland, president biden is set to deliver remarks that highlight the cooperation of nato allies in the backing of ukraine. the white house officially announced the trip on friday. nbc news was the first to report it last month. as for the war, we're learning more about the scale of recent fatalities suffered by russia. according to the united kingdom's ministry of defense, ukraine reports that the average mean for russia over the past

seven days involves over 800 casualties per day. that's over four times the rate reported between june and july of last year. and while the ministry says it cannot outright verify ukraine's assessment, the trends are likely accurate. the increase in casualties is described as a result of multiple factors, including, a lack of trained personnel and resources. let's bring in nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez live from kyiv. raf. >> reporter: mika, ukrainian forces are under real pressure in the east of this country right now. russia has a major advantage in numbers after vladimir putin mobilized hundreds of thousands of conscripts. but ukrainians are hoping time is on their side. every week they can hold out brings them one week closer to getting those advanced nato weapons onto the battlefield.

russia's new offensive grinding across eastern ukraine, slowly taking ground, but at a bloody cost. russian wagner group mercenaries claim to have captured a village around bakhmut. russian casualties are the highest they've been since the first weeks of the war, losing more than 800 men every day, according to ukraine. british military intelligence says russia is suffering from a lack of trained personnel, coordination and resources across the front. ukraine's own casualty figures a closely guarded secret, but they too are suffering severe losses. the fighting putting every greater strain on ukraine's manpower. this unit is practicing reconnaissance patrols in the woods outside kyiv. overseeing the training is a special forces veteran.

>> being an american here active ly fighting does pose a risk. >> makes you a target? >> yeah. with my background, i was compelled to come help. >> and now inspired to stay. >> it's not somebody else. it's not somewhere else. these people want the exact same thing that the average american wants. >> reporter: we just wrapped up an interview with the speaker of the ukrainian parliament. he was actually a couple of minutes late because he was coming straight from a meeting with president zelenskyy and ukraine's senior military leadership. he told us zelenskyy is very involved day to day in the details of the fighting in the east. he also said that while he met nancy pelosi last year, he has not yet been able to speak to

speaker mccarthy. he hopes that will happen sometime soon and he hopes u.s. support for ukraine will continue under this new republican majority in the house. mika. >> raf sanchez, thank you so much for that report. >> general mccaffrey, your response to where we are right now with the ukraine war, especially the high number of casualties that putin continues to take every week? >> well, it's clear to me that putin has zero possibility of backing out of this, of negotiating in good faith, of trying to be satisfied with crimea. there is a sense among nato nations that the ukrainians basically need a couple of three

divisions worth of armor and some better missile artillery capabilities. that's on route. sure is moving slowly, considering the enormous challenge to ukraine. it's going to be a very brutal winner. the big offensive will start in spring. >> that's what we keep hearing from the pentagon. some are suggesting the spring and summer is going to be a very explosive time. i am curious, though. at this point we had debates about armor, tanks and jets, whether they were going to be delivered from nato countries to ukraine. at this point, do we have any

choice other than to provide the ukrainians what they need, what they want? >> you make a good point. the greatest disaster possible would be to supply inadequate military technology to the ukrainians and have them lose. we must commit unequivocally to providing them whatever is needed to win. some of these things are pretty tough. training an f-16 pilot is a year job. training an apache pilot is a year worth of training. some of it's far easier. experienced ukrainian tankers could pick up on the abrams tank

in 30 days. maintenance problems and logistics probably have to be worked with civilian contractors. i think the pentagon, the biden administration, has committed to doing what's possible to keep ukraine in the fight. now they need to amp it up and allow them to threaten the russians in a fundamental way to try to unravel the russian army. >> we have a lot of these american firsters, isolationists, a lot of these lindberghs running around criticizing joe biden for not shooting down the chinese balloon and how weak he looks. now we hear former president trump is going to run as a pass pacifist, anti-interventionist candidate. what will happen if putin is

allowed to succeed with his aggression? >> if ukraine went under to naked russian aggression, violating the sovereignty of a state recognized by the global community, then it would have implications certainly for taiwan, never mind the south china sea, never mind potentially aggression against japan, south korea, australia. there's a principle at stake here. it was sort of amusing to watch at least one congressman who said biden was at fault for not shooting down the first balloon, but was trigger happy in taking down the next three. you know, they need to back off, let norad do its job, let them sort out a new strategic challenge to the united states and just allow the pentagon and the foreign policy people to engage on this new threat.

>> retired army four star general barry mccaffrey, thank you for being with us. coming up on "morning joe," last night's super bowl was played for the first time in a state with legalized sports betting. while americans were expected to bet $16 billion in total on the big game, that is not the reason the price tag for an nfl franchise has skyrocketed. s sky.

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halftime, performing much of the show on elevated platforms above the field. this was the first time rihanna performed live since 2018. ahead of the game, many experts predicted an estimated 100 million would be tuning in to watch the super bowl live last night. we expect to learn the actual number tomorrow. but the ability to attract that many viewers is one of the reasons the price tags for professional sports teams are skyrocketing, especially in the nfl, which has been dubbed the rolls royce of american sports leagues. the question is whether the nfl's rules for team ownership can survive this. let's bring in cnbc's andrew ross sorkin.

>> so, andrew, we were talking about last night how amazing it was last night. i heard from a lot of republican pollsters during the colin cap per kaepernick years they're going to lose their base, they're going to lose money. there are always these reports out, oh, viewership for the nfl down 10% or whatever. it's ununbelievable. the nfl is stronger than it's ever been, makes more money than it's ever been, viewership is higher than it's ever been. they're just printing money every sunday. >> you're right, it's been remarkable to see how well it's grown. the only things even comparable to it on a global basis is the

world cup. to talk a little bit about the numbers, it's a conundrum facing the nfl. most teams in the nfl are owned by one person, different families and the like. this has been the way the nfl has operated for a very long time. given that the numbers are now as high as they are, the question is whether the nfl is going to have to change the system. a lot of the other leagues have started to let private equity firms, sovereign wealth firms get involved. would you ever allow an nfl team, which i think is representative of americana, be owned by the saudis or the singapore pension fund or the like? these are the new questions starting to get raised within the nfl, especially as the

numbers get so high that the number of perspective buyers are harder and harder to come by. >> it's fascinating. you have sovereign wealth funds that have moved into premier league football. we can't compete with saudi arabia or the uae. now you actually have the premier league trying to come down on the emiratis out of reaction to that. there is this possibility of sovereign wealth funds coming in. i saw a chart this week leading up to the super bowl something like the 30 richest franchises in sports in the world, something like 23 out of the 30

all nfl teams, even teams like my atlanta falcons, who have never won a super bowl. >> this is the most exclusive club in the world if you can become an owner of a football team. that's why you see the likes of a jeff bezos get bandied about as a possible name to come in and buy the team in washington. that's why this is becoming such a big question. we'll see. >> i'm curious about the ads. were there any standouts to you? >> i've asked you what you liked. the most interesting ad wasn't really an ad. we came in after commercial with the rihanna piece. that was apple music now sponsoring the halftime show.

if you were a spotify person beforehand, do you say, actually this sold me, i'm switching to apple music? was it worth it? the halftime report was owned by pepsico for two decades. >> jonathan lemire, your favorite ad had to be dunkin donuts, right? >> it was the best. >> fantastic. ben affleck manning the drive-through at dunkin donuts. there were some great ads, but that was my favorite. >> are you planning to go to dunkin, though, as a function of it? last year you started to see

these qr codes on the screen. you were always a dunkin man. >> of course, it's in the blood. >> what's so interesting, though, is these really are sign posts, these ads are the sign posts of our times economically. it's so crazy. last year the ad everybody was talking about was larry david during crypto. i don't know if i ever saw a pets.com ad in the super bowl. >> you did. >> saw a ton of dotcom ads right before the bust. >> there is a curse. there is an absolute advertising curse when it comes to the stock prices of companies. it's a little bit like the cover of sports illustrated or the

cover of business week. there's a little bit of a curse to it. the good news is you guys are all at work today. did you know 18 million people are calling in sick? this is the biggest sick out day of the year. >> everyone's so tired. >> some people think today should be a national holiday. in the post pandemic era of sort of hybrid mondays and fridays, i don't know, maybe people don't call out sick. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. we have good news for baseball fans. >> great news. >> and bad news for families of those fans who like to spend time with them. participating this next month's world baseball classic, reports

to spring training today with opening day set for march 30th. that's exciting. >> jonathan, last night after the super bowl, our friend said that we now go into the 30 bleakest days in sports, because nothing's happening. i responded, dude, pitchers and catchers report on a wednesday. darkest three days maybe. our beloved red sox report on thursday. i'm sorry, im hope springs eternal. >> it's the backdrop of the spring and summer. we're not going into this red

sox season with particularly high hopes. on thursday when the first guys start to get out there, yeah, i'll feel better, because they're back. even if we're trying to avoid 100 losses this year, it's still fun to see them. baseball is baseball. it will be fine. still ahead, one week after the massive earthquake that devastated parts of turkey and syria, survivors are still being pulled from the rubble. we'll have the latest next on "morning joe." we'llhave the latest next on "morning joe." headaches fast with new flonase headache and allergy relief! two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good! age-related macular degeneration may lead to severe vision loss. and if you're taking a multivitamin alone, you may be missing a critical piece. preservision. preservision areds 2 contains the only clinically proven nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. "preservision is backed by 20 years of clinical studies"

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of their own. rescue workers helping pull one off, saving this woman after being trapped under rubble for 175 hours. omar's mother was dead by the time search crews reached her. more than 30,000 are dead in syria and turkey. they're digging mass graves. people have nowhere to live, some crowding into shelters. aid isn't reaching most of them and anger is rising. over the weekend more than 100 developers and builders arrested accused of shoddy construction on some of the thousands of buildings that collapsed here. on this street, another search for survivors. have you made contact with anyone? >> no. >> reporter: they dug and listened with specialized audio

equipment for hours, but found no sign of anyone alive. it comes amid new video released from the time of the earthquake, showing incredible bravery by two nurses who rushed to protect babies in the neo natal unit. up next on "morning joe," we'll be joined by the filmmakers behind the documentary, a house made of splinters. the emotional film debuted at the sundance film festival, where it took the festival by storm. now, it is nominated for an academy award. nominated for an academy award.

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tragically beautiful documentary entitled "a house made of splinters." the film follows the lives of four ukrainian children during their time in a temporary orphanage in the eastern part of the country as the adults caring for them try to create a safe space not far from the front lines of the war raging with russia.

>> joining us now the documentary's director and award winning filmmaker simon lereng willmont. if you could frame out what you did here, how you followed them and frame out what you were hoping to accomplish for any viewer of this documentary. >> i followed the life in margarita's halfway house or shelter for roughly 1 1/2 years to follow up on the kids' lives. it was all to try and document

the less visible but no less hard consequences that having a war going on in your back yard has on a civil society. in the end, it's always the kids that suffer the most. but more importantly, i also wanted to show kids' almost magical ability to adapt and survive and reach for the good things in life, connecting and seeking love no matter how tragic circumstances they're in. >> well put. we're watching these children, one of them talking to their mother. >> explain to us what these children were going through, the types of trauma they were dealing with and also how you t. >> so basically those are the children who lived very close to the front line, and they all come from very unsecure social backgrounds. they all have troubled family,

troubled parents, but they were lucky to get into this very special orphanage, very special place where social workers are kind and caring and they do really care about children and they try to help them. of course, all the children, they went and they're still going through many psychological traumas. for instance, when we were working on this film, we worked also with psychologists who worked with the children and actually this work was thanks to a team and thanks to the producer and assistant director who also started a special fund which is called voices of children, and this fund is helping many, many children right now in ukraine. >> so we have a clap from the documentary, some of the children receive a phone call from their mother. let's watch so we can hear it.

take a look. t. take a look. >> simon, what is going on there? where is their mother? it's so sweet in so many ways, and so sad. >> he and his two younger siblings have been brought to the shelter because the police and the social workers feel that the mom is not able to take care of them, but there is -- they don't cut the contact to the mother because they want to give

her a chance to redeem herself or to better herself, to do something about the alcoholism and the situation that she's in. and that's why they also allow the kids actually to keep contact with their parents for as long as they can until they have to make a decision in their case. >> darya, good morning. such a powerful film and difficult at times to watch. i know one in which the production tried to proceed whereas much sensitivity as possible. these are children after all. darya, how did you decide what you would film, what you would not as the children were going through this? >> i think simon can better comment on that, because i was not on the set. it was only simon and his assistant, and they did all this

magic. >> i think that that's probably touching on one of the reasons why we could get this close is i do my own cinematography, so it's only me and my brilliant assistant director who was at the house. we spent a huge amount of time hanging out with the kids, listening to their stories, their hopes, their dreams, their fears and trying to get to know them on a deeper level and in some ways to befriend them, also, so we can be some sort of welcome distraction in their lives i think. at one point, obviously, you grow close to each other. we grow close to each other and some mutual trust, the most important thing in doing a documentary like this is what happens. so when the raw emotional situations arise, i think the kids are okay for us to be there because we're more of a support than just somebody there to film their lives, so to speak. >> the film is entitled "a house

made of splinters," simon and darya, thank you for this thill. up next, a look at stories making front page headlines across the country. we're back in just 90 seconds. c. n finally get a job. the house whisperer! this house says use realtor.com to see homes in your budget. you're staying in school, jacob! realtor.com. to each their home.

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has a front page feature to crack down on pair little tear activity. the legislation is trying to protect public safety. if it pass, it would be one of the strongest laws on paramilitaries in the country. in hawaii the star advertiser reports since the pandemic more children in the state have not been getting their required vaccinations. new data from the state department of health shows a little over 3% of students missed their routine vaccines during the 2019-2020 school year, a number that jumped more than 18% this school year. and in texas, the "dallas morning news" reports women are returning to the workforce at a faster rate than men. that's despite women bearing the brunt of early pandemic job losses compared to april of 2020, women's labor force

participation rates are currently up by more than 3 percentage points while men's are up to two percentage points. that does it for us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow. alex witt picks up the coverage in two minutes. in two minutes [beep... beep... beep...] i'm your glitchy wi-fi and i've decided... well, if you're on vacation, i am too. ha-ha-ha! which means your smart home isn't so smart. sprinkler on. and now i'm sending mixed signals to your garage. and, if you haven't bundled your home and auto coverage, trying to unpack this isn't going to be too much fun. hey, check the router! so, get allstate and be better protected from mayhem while saving up to 25% when you bundle home and auto. ♪♪ you've changed. ♪♪ you've healed. ♪♪ you've evolved.

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