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i michigan state university east lansing, which again. police say another five were injured, they are being treated in an area hospital, some with potentially left threatening injuries. the suspect is still a, large officials released this photo, a man short in stature, wearing a ball cap. a blue jean jacket, what appears to be like jeans and red sneakers. the campus is on lockdown, as officials continue to look for the suspect. they say the shooter opened fire just after 8 pm. he opened fire in berkey hall, and academic building, then he went to the msu union building. michigan state university has about 50,000 students. it's the largest university in the state of michigan. i'm gonna bring back into our, coverage frankfurt lucy and jim kavanaugh, as we hit the press

conference that should be starting any moment now. gentlemen, it's now, midnight this began at 8 pm. how concerning is it to you that this man is still at large. jim? >> very concerned about, it because it's highly populated, urban campus, and he could be anywhere in the shadows. there we see that first picture, steph, where he's got a handgun, he's holding in his right hand, it looks like he's got it concealed in a jacket pocket, probably. he's pulling it out there eases entering the building. he's probably walking around the campus, he walks inside, pulls out the pistol, because he wants the killer confront someone. he's a very recognizable clothing, i'd say, and the people to know this, man or have seen him tonight, would recognize him. the red shoes, the hat with a death or different colored bill. and the white collar sticking out of a denim coat. i think people who know him will recognize him from this dress.

he's got his face covered with a mask, a series of can get facial recognition. his dress is kind of unique. so he's coming to close to, people's got a pistol, he's already killed three, and he's wounded another at least five that we know of. and had two different locations. so extremely dangerous, spree killer. whereabouts unknown. very volatile situation, even three and a half to four hours after the initial attack. steph? >> frank is a surprise you that the suspect, the shooter is still at large? there are scores of law enforcement, east lansing, police fbi, atf, all spread across that campus right now. >> well, it actually doesn't surprise, me steph, yes they flooded the zone, as they say, and yet they've poured resources into it. but in just minutes, as jim alluded to in an earlier segment, someone can just walk even through, i've seen it as

well, walk right through a police line, because of the, time the officers don't know what they're looking for, they don't know who we are looking for. one thing i did here on the police scanners tonight, and this is smart, they isolated the witnesses, so i could hear is someone giving the command to have our officers, anyone who saw anything, escort them to this building over here. and so the interview teams will be assembled, the interview in these, people that's really helpful. when i do is say, yeah i know who that is. the guy is a student in my evening class, or he got kicked out last week, or whatever, i recognize. and they're gonna build their case. the other thing that is really interesting, jim mentioned the distinctiveness. yeah, i see a grainy photo, but absolutely i see distinctiveness, with regard to the red shoes, the different color bill in cap, and oversized jacket. what does that mean? it means that, depending on a

degree of camera security, locations on campus, they're gonna literally be able to see this guy coming and going, right now as we speak, their plane over and over a loop of security cameras all over campus and there to say there is the red shoes there is the distinct of all, cap he came out of that vehicle, we need to surround that vehicle and get our search warrant. we saw on exit this way. and they're gonna do that same thing for the city of east lansing, they're gonna gonna try to track this guy in and out even if he changes clothing they're gonna have him walk in, on to campus or driving and weaken as an exit getting, they'll had the witness interviews. i think this will be resolved in a relatively short time, but look for any parent listening tonight, watching tonight, there is no reasonable amount of time. -- i understand that. >> we just got word from our

affiliate in east lansing, that press conference has been postponed, until about 12:20, so we have 15 minutes to wait. jim, earlier tonight when we are speaking to juror russ, a freshman, an 18-year-old male man who said, okay will you have happening, never in my life that i believed i'd be in a situation. but the thing, is or seen it happen time and again, just two years, ago oxford high, school which is 80 miles away from michigan state. just over an hours drive, had a school shooting. a high school student came to campus for the long, gun opened fire, killed multiple students. >> it's now after midnight, which means this exactly five years to the day, marjory stoneman douglas high school, in parkland, florida. the mask shooting took place, they're killing 17 individuals, at this point, by their faculty, staff, security on any type of campus on, school a high,

school i university what type of training for people to get given the high volume of school shootings we have in this country. . >> well they have these normal active shooter drills, where they practice responding to the pa system, through twitter feed. an alert on your iphone, your smart form. run, hide, fight we've all heard that. doesn't need to hide on your desk, the killer can walk in and shoot you. it means to barricade, and find a place that someone can get, into a locked door. i hear so sensitive to talk appropriately to the, parents were looking all over the country. student you talk to from los angeles, all over the country are watching this, and they need to understand too, that this criminal is not

superhuman. who is a man with a pistol, but he's not superhuman. if that door was locked, and we just saw him getting, and he probably have a hard time getting that door. it's thick glass, it's not hollywood where everyone shoots through the locks. that's steph is a lot of fiction. a person with a handgun against a metal door, he's got to go to another door. and we just ran other locked, or he's gonna have to go to another locked or. and this campus is swarming with police. so just keep in mind, these guys are not superhuman, the ruled by the laws of physics, they get tired,, their mental state when their sworn thing through this homicidal rage, is not very clear. they don't always think that, clear they stumble, will get caught, snowfall, down someone will see, them the disorientated sometimes. so i just and say that everyone. how paper guides superhuman,

that he can live to tell, buildings jump over any building kill anyone. he's just a criminal with a handgun, the police are swarming the place, the odds are turned away from him. he had the advantage when no one knew was coming, who he had an advantage but his advantage has been dissipated by law enforcement and by alert students and faculty and citizens, and by locked oars and by the community pulling together, i wish it all under strength now as terms and of course the score the goal is to get to him before he kills again, and try to keep that positive thought while we're in a very dangerous and volatile situation still, steph. you gotta see it for what it really is. >> really important, educated messaging gym that our parents all around the country watching this panics, of course. jim, as we're looking at

enormous law enforcement presence, local, police fbi, help us understand how their coordinated response works. how they prepare for this, to work together. who. >> we always turn on these things together and agency started and drop, that can sort up mine a command vehicles outside. as the hours progress they might be moved behind a classroom we called it a joint operation. and that's with the unseen command would be. campus commanders -- the fbi, the fbi special agents in charge. the ranking people of all the agencies will go there. investigators from all the agency. the agency is, three police detectives, they will also go nearby where they can run the

leaves around the interviews. all the agents or investigators first. they do interviews of people, they do detective work, like frank said they're gonna interview everybody in the building. who they do everything by agents or detectives, right there so they can solve the case. the commanders there are back in the other room, or the end of a big room, and they're making overall decisions on how to wear the s.w.a.t. commanders need to go, you get sightings of the, shooter where the squad will have to be apprehended. so there's a lot of moving parts going on. basically the commanders will get together, and make these decisions, to help each other. it's kind of thing of allied command in world war two. we had the british and french, and the americans. and the new zealand's, and they all work together to make it

work. so that's the strength of these things. never really have enough officers, we really can't have too many officers. you just have to have the commanders that understand how to leverage all these people to their advantage. you get everybody interviewed, you can go and answer every call, because of all these officers and agents available to you. so that's what it takes, it takes strong leadership to make it happen, and like frank said and maybe we can get something to happen tonight, soon, so we can get this guy app upended, steph? >> we are grateful for them massive on forsman present it's just that when we send our kids to college we don't think we're sending them into world war ii scenario. gentlemen, please stay with, us we're gonna be hateful law enforcement officers a minutes from now. but i want to bring in ben finklestein. he's a senior michigan state university, sheltering in his apartment, just off campus in michigan state. he joins us now, on the phone.

>> i'm really freaked out right now. i really don't know how to feel. >> tell us where you were when this all began tonight, and thank you for sharing our story, i know it's not easy. >> i was my apartment, i was in a meeting, when i received a text from my mother, asking if i was okay and all of a sudden i got a flurry of alerts. and i immediately went and just walked onto my apartment.

i literally freaked out, i started messaging people. to see their okay, -- >> do you live alone ben? >> no, i have a roommate who's currently on a higher floor the building with a friend of ours. >> to the best of your knowledge is a building block down and then there apartments? >> to the best my knowledge, yeah. >> have you spoken to either friends, teachers, colleagues, anyone you know, are they safe. . >> have you spoken to any of your professors yet? how is a school communicating with you >>.

>> immediately started sending out updates from the media department, and making sure that we are on top of everything. so i'm really grateful for them. >> i'm really grateful you are joining us tonight. how did your mom hear about it before you did? yuck >> i didn't see the alerts at the time. i was in a meeting. over voice chat. i didn't have the phone directly in front of me. has the campus prepared you for anything like this, potentially happening at some point, not that would be unique to michigan state, but sadly school shootings across the country.

>> to be honest, i haven't received any training, personally. >> i know that there are resources, on campus for. >> my building is directly across the road from the center. so it's just down the street from the apartments. and i don't know how safe ip field, to be honest. it's kind of scared me when i started hearing brody hall.

>> either billions in close proximity to you? party hall is over a short bridge, where i stand. >> when you look at the window, besides the, empty police presence, i residents all following police inspections, and staying inside. i know earlier tonight, there is some students leaving their building, walking around outside, and the police were trying to get them back inside. what is it like now? >> i haven't looked on my windows,. >> where you from? >> i'm from west bloomfield,

michigan. how far is that from east lansing? >> about 70 miles. >> school is going to be canceled for the next few days. when you can, are you hoping to go home and sue your family? >> yeah,. it felt like, everything was going great, until it happened, and i really just don't know. i don't know how to process it. >> ben, i'm so sorry, you said you are in a meeting, what were you working? on said everything was going, great what were you doing tonight before this news, before this tragedy struck. >> so i was working in a meeting with.

who the capstone course are making a game. >> a video game? >> yeah >> how many more weeks, months, do you have loved before you graduate. you are senior >> i'm gonna be graduating in the first week of may. >> first week of may, so you've got spring break in just a few weeks, and a graduating in may and certainly like sounds like this changes everything. but has the campus been communicating with you as much as possible tonight? do you feel good about the information that you, have given what a scary situation -- >> i feel good about the amount of information. it came out a good time, rather

things are happening, i knew where to stay away from it for some outside. i was able to track, where activity was,. >> i was able to stay safe, and relatively calm. >> then, i heard in your voice. i know what an absolutely horrible night it is for you, and it does change everything. but i want you to know, but there are scores of people, there are parents, half the student, his heavy faux fur on the country watching tonight, where is so scared. and use sharing your story, and giving us an update of what's happening there, isn't valuable

to us, i'm so grateful for you and all that you shared, you're going to get through this, then. >> think you. >> ben finklestein, thank you so much, i want to bring in frank for clues, the charles coleman. jim kavanaugh. frank, just hearing that young man's voice. we're just talking, about this is an active shooter situation, they're gonna find this guy move on. how did these kids move on? >> you are that young boy, this changes everything, he's gonna graduate the first week of, may and his world's been turned upside down. like so many other kids in this country. >> you know stephanie, i think that fortunately the sad state of where we are today, with regard to gun violence, as we don't ever really move on, but rather we learn to manage, victims, and those traumatized

from being around these incidents. how these are traumatized by simply been exposed to this day in and day out. that's almost not a pressure moving on, it's a question of how we manage, this in our lives, in our legislatures. in our communities, and our families. but it's human nature to kind of want to wall off from this but when you do, that we lose the ability to act, -- made one of the many things will talk about michigan laws michigan does not have a red flag bill let's assume someone hypothetically in michigan is known to have emotional

difficulties, verbalizing some violent inclinations, whereas in some states the officers and through due process in michigan you can't do that, don't know what's gonna happen here, where we should talk about, change we talk about what we can do better. there's lots we can to better. >> what advice do you have, jim for parents who are watching, who send their kids off to college, and in the near term, let's be honest. we're not getting federal big changes. so should families have an emergency plan. -- >> well, we should all have emergency plan wherever we are in public society, with crime the way it is. and to always be ready, if you

hear the report not dismiss it as a firecracker backfire, but to think first, they could be a gunshot, and i need to move away from quickly. i need to move to safety, so we need to have our mindset, we always need to have a command post. i'm a significant other person that's always in touch with, us about where we are. it could be her parents, it could be years, both could be your brother, it could be your friend. there's always someone who knows where you, are and could be in touch with, you and you can help your hippie get you out of a situation like that. >> with this great interview added this young man it's really an important point as well. we'll be watching experience the two year. fear is an invaluable gift you have, to keep you alive. do not be angry yourself, if you feel the fear. fear is gonna keep you alive. it's something intrinsically as a human, it's very valuable to you. and so if you're feeling it,

that means it's good, you're experiencing it. you just don't to be frozen by it. or heard by it. and then throw it away and be angry because you have a little, fear you should have the apprehension and fear in the face of these things in society. even on enforcement, we have those fears to when we're being shot at, and dealing with all these violent situations too. it's the fact you still act through them. to go on with your mission. i'd say very brave young man, he's talking straight. he knows his motions are there. those kind of emotions will keep him alive. and everybody else to. embrace that, use it, recognize when there's a danger, keep your command post always, know your surroundings, don't bury your head on your computer or phone all the time, pay attention. have a plan, most of these things are over in a few minutes, and you can keep yourself safe most of the time. >> alive, jim, but potentially in a world of trauma, for years to come. and not just for those kids who

are maybe part of an act of shooting, this young man is in the community and you can hear how distraught he is. >> steph,, exactly right when you experience these things vicariously, you have a lot of trauma that affects, you some people deeper than others. that's tough, you carry their life, it's part of the human experience. >> jim, i wanna jump, and let's all pay attention, the press conference is beginning right now. it looks like we are hearing from a different feel at the podium, right now, please listen in. >> good afternoon, or good evening excuse me i'm marvin lynch chief of police and michigan state university. tragic, series of events that occurred here. already tremendous might've support, from our community, and our law enforcement partners, who are here with me

at the moment as well. standing at the far-right, we have county prosecutor johnny wayne. next to him we have sheriff scott, special agent in charge of fbi. and you've already met deputy chief chris rodman. i want to thank you for coming to sheriffs as we update our community, in regards to tonight's events will get directly to the most recent update from that and a lot of comments and threat questions. . >> think you chief, again chris rodman, deputy chief and michigan state university, police and public safety. so we start tonight by sharing an important update and that update is that the suspect in this incident, was located outside the msu camp campus, and it does appear that that

suspect has died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. it is confirmed that he is deceased. this truly has been a nightmare, that we are living tonight. but, we have remained laser focused, on the safety of our campus. our students, and the surrounding community. we are relieved, we are relieved to no longer have an active threat on campus. well we realize that there's so much healing that needs to take place after this. again, to reiterate the update, there is no longer a threat to campus. there we believe to be only one shooter in this incident. there is no longer in need to shelter in place on campus. there is no longer threat on campus. we are sad to report, that

there have been three confirmed fatalities. this is in addition to the five victims, who were injured and transported to the hospital. some of those five victims still have life threatening injuries. >> out of respect for the families, and while we continue our active investigation. we can't confirm any personal information about any of the victims at this time. again, we will have reiterate, to everybody, that we know there is a lot of information, that is being shared on social media. and been said on the scanner. please continue to get your information from us. we are committed to sharing timely and transparent information.

our hearts are with those who have been affected by the senseless act of violence. giving an update like this is never easy, as a father, i can only imagine how parents are feeling right now. >> this will be the beginning of a long healing process for everyone who's been effective that is the initial information we can share this, point i'll conclude again by saying this is still a fluid situation. there are several different crime scenes that we are processing with our state and federal partners. and there's a lot of work that still needs to be done. >> this time, i'm gonna turn it over to a special agent in charge, james trust given the fbi.

>> this evening, i'm going to ask, a special agent in charge of the fbi's mission. our hearts go to the, victims their families, and the entire community. >> i like to thank chief lynch for your leadership tonight. and your partnership with. this evening, fbi agents are the response teams. thank you for assisting and in this horrific incident. we'll continue to investigate into where sure no further threat is imposed on the public. which this, point were pretty clear it's not. who additionally, we will provide victims services to all students, impacted by this incident. . asking the public, in addition to the other members provided to calling for a formation. we have the one 800 call fbi number. please feel free to use, that

this is an ongoing investigation. we continue investigating throughout the night. who so, that chief, thank you. >> in addition to the fbi to apply, we have countless investigators not only msu police in public safety, but our local county state federal partners assisting us with this investigation, and there still is a lot to do. i'm gonna provide another 800 number, and email address for anybody that may have any information, that will help our investigators, so you put the pieces together for this incident, that phone number, and we'll also shared our social media, his 844, 99 msu pd, again 84499, and that's upd, and our tip line is tips,

t.i.p.s., and police thought msu dot edu. our investigators will continue to work tonight, and around the clock, to process the crime seems, start to put this pieces together to try to understand what happened here tonight. and this time, we will open up for a couple questions. i just want to say, please understand that we are sharing information as quickly as we can. there's a lot that we don't know this, point this is still dynamic, it's still fluid, and we'll do our best to answer questions. i'll start right here in front. >> was the suspect a faculty member, a student, what can you tell us about them? >> so we are unsure of any affiliation that the suspect had to the university. our investigators and officers are still working to determine his identity.

once his identity is determined, we will then look to what connection he may have had to our community here. but this time, that's still part of our investigation. >> just a follow-up, along the same lines, other victims in this instance students? >> so, we continue who work or identify the victims in this case. out of respect for the families, as we work through the process, we are not gonna identify or confirm, if any of the victims at this point our msu students. that is something we're quickly working to determine, and that will be a priority for us. >> can you describe their men or women, for the victims? >> i actually don't have that information. all we can confirm at this point, is three fatalities, as the scene. and five victims that were

transported -- that is all the information that we have. however, we will work to determine the specific identity of those victims, and their affiliation campus. over here. >> where the shooting is limited to union and berkey hall. and the suspect became of the backpack and magazines -- [inaudible] >> the first question was the location of the shootings. we can confirm that the first shooting occurred at berkey hall, and the second subsequent shooting occurred at the msu union, which is adjacent to turkey call. victims were located at both of those locations there were no other, scenes courtrooms are places that any location. there were erroneous reports that there were additional, shooting scenes, and that is not true. the question about what the

suspect had in his possession, when he was contacted, i cannot confirm that right now. we did release some pictures of the suspect. i cannot confirm if he was possessing a bag at that time. >> over here. >> do we know what type of gun was used? >> we do not at this point, we do not have that information, that it will be part of this investigation, in terms of what type of weapon was used. we do not have that information at this time, our investigators are hard at work, we were putting pieces together right now. >> they have any information about what the motive was for this? >> we have absolutely no information right now and what the motive is and i can't even begin to imagine what that motive would be. i'll be all because a part of our investigation, i think that is gonna be a question that lingers on everybody's minds. we will do our best to

determine that, but at this point we have no idea. >> how would law enforcement officers, agents, is to do you in this? >> the initial response, to the initial shooting, was overwhelming. every one of our law enforcement partners in the county responded to the scene and additional counties in this area showed up, along with our federal partners. i'm comfortable saying in the hundreds, made hundreds of law enforcement officers, from university, local, county, state, and federal. from the mid michigan area, that descended on campus today, in a coordinated effort to lose all of this incident, and secure our campus. in the back. >> do you know where the president is? >> i don't have an information right now, my understanding is

that she is returning to campus. and has been briefed on this incident. i can only imagine what she's feeling at this point. our focus up to this point has really been on the safety of our campus, and the public safety operations at hand, and we have brief not only our president, but our executive leadership team,, every step of the way, in addition to that we activated our emergency operation center, and put our plans in place that we have planned for an incident similar to this. we initiated those plans and part of the reason that it was smooth on our end as was in this tragic and from the situation is because of the providing the emergency plans and the trading that we do county wide for responding to acts of violence incidents. in the back, great.

>> -- each shooting location, and how many people are at that location when the shooting started. >> sure, the question is how many victims were at the shooting scene. unfortunately do not have that information. out of an abundance of transparency, i can share that to the fatalities where berkey all, and one was a dimension to union. the other five victims, i don't have the specific locations where they were. we also don't have specific information on how many students, or people were in those locations -- i do know that there were students in those buildings. i don't have a specific number. i want to commend the students and our community and how they reacted, when we send out emergency messaging. our community listened, and that's why a lot of folks in those buildings were able to

escape, it's because of following the instructions. we'll go over here in the back. >>so, i actually don't know how that information right now. the update that we provided, about the contacts we had with the suspect off-campus was very fluid and dynamic and occurred right before coming in here today. so unfortunate don't have that information, on what led us to his location, he was contacted by law enforcement who was contacted by law enforcement off campus i can't confirm that location right now. that scene is also being treated as crime, seem and has been investigated as we speak. we may have it additional information to share relating to that in the future. >> i'll tell you, went over here, go ahead.

>> -- so i'm in stable condition, west of range of their condition? >> so, we don't have a current information update on the five victims at the hospital. i'm aware that they experienced life-threatening injuries. we hope to have enough food for the hot through, and think of future briefings will have a representative from the hospital, here it may be able to share additional information as well. >> sir? >> yeah, thank, you the shooting victims really all in one location. >> so i don't have any information right, now that will be part of our investigation. in terms of where the victims were located within the building, we don't have that information available to us right now. right here. >> are there plans to close camp whistle on the 48 hours.

those point were declining campus will be closed for 48 hours. as the current status right now, that is subject to change, as we evaluate our response to this incident, keeping the victims and the students of our community, we have been impacted by this tragedy at the forefront. if we need to extend, that we will, and the appropriate conversations are akin to make those determinations right now. sir? >> can you confirm that the suspect in the photos, is the same person that's -- >> i can confirm that the photograph that we pushed, out as part of our transparent information, sharing is the same suspect that was found to seized, yes. sir. >> just a very clear, can -- parents come to the campus to pick up the students. and can soon leave campus? >> so, we have lifted the shelter in place, that

communication was sent out during this conference. students are free to leave. and go about their business, and they would like to pick, up they may do that. we encourage any student experience any part of this incident, the maybe a witness, to contact us. we have already been in touch with several of them, but if there are any students that we missed any of the tragedy that occurred tonight. we would refer them to our tip line and email we would like to have an investigator speak with them to understand what their experience was during this tragic incident. in the back. >> to your knowledge, it was there anyone who identified the shooter -- >> we do not have any information on whether anybody confronted the shooter either one of those buildings,, one way or the other. part of the investigation, we'll look at the sequence of events, and what it created

each building. any witnesses that need to come forward to try to piece the sequence of events together. >> are any campus that supported through the last few days of social media. how to police find a suspect in the shooting prior to the police infraction? >> we didn't receive any threat to campus in the last several days, or before this incident. we have not received any threats to our knowledge. obviously when our state and federal partners are constantly monitoring different sources to provide information to us, and my knowledge right now, we're not aware of a threat before this. what is the second part of your question? >> how did y'all stop the suspect, didi make contact with you guys? >> i don't have the particular details it on the counter that happened when the law enforcement conducted --

off campus. that'll be part of our investigation as well, i don't have any details on how that incident transpired. >> sir. >> -- what was the first time the call came in? >> the first report we received was at 8:18 pretty pm. we responded in force, we had officers on, seen not only from msu police and public safety, but east lansing please department. initially responded to that scene had officers in the building, following their active shooter protocol, and going towards the threat. while officers were in berkey all, the suspect moved over to the union and when the incident took place, their officers quickly re-deployed to the union, and that's -- which was a point he was last seen. >> let's do one more question,

and then will provide an additional uptick at 1:30 in. >> we're gonna do an additional update at 1:30 which is less than an hour from now. >> go ahead. >> i know that the scene with the shooter still we are going but you know if it is an off campus apartment, was in a car, what was a location where you found the suspect? >> so we're not gonna share any information about that specific location, where that occurred. i can assure you that it was off campus, wasn't directly near campus settlers in an off campus location. because that scene is still active as well, we're not gonna disclose that particular location right now. so again, we really do appreciate -- i'm inserted back over to the vice president. >> i just wanted to end it with his particular comment. we can't describe and appreciate that response we have from our partners in our

community. number of police officers, emergency medical service, fire departments that showed up literally within minutes, to support this effort. it's completely overwhelming, with that. >> if you're on campus of the, time you saw with that, they are still, they're still cleaning buildings, very methodical process. we had the numbers to do, it ends only because the relationships we have here locally, and the ability to train and partner constantly. and the communication is always there. it's a situation where 11 department receives the, call everybody does. with, that were extremely grateful for our relationships, it would not have been as thorough and as expedient and insufficient, as it has been to this point, but without those partnerships i just wanted to take a moment to thank our partners with that as well as our community, for being responsive to the messaging that was sent to them this evening. thank you, and we'll see a

1:30. see a 1:30 and that wraps the press conference from east lansing, michigan, michigan state university deputy police chief, chris rawls been giving an update. the newest information that we, have the shooter, the suspect has died from a self inflicted gunshot wound. it is no longer an active threat on canvas. the stay in place orders have, lifted the campus will be shut down for the next 48 hours, as the investigation continues, and the morning begins. charles, your reaction? that extraordinary police officer, all of them, but specifically the deputy police chief, chris was, when you can see how traumatized he is tonight. >> there are so many different pieces to what we know and what we don't know about the situation. i think the response from the

michigan state community, has to be lauded on so many different levels. because of the same time that this investigation is going on, everything involving from all around this. from students, faculty, parents, alumni, and then the surrounding community east lansing michigan as well. there is a level of strength and inspiration that so many different people, and i can't believe that would just be limited to the people we talk to tonight. but just the ability of everybody to lean on each other. i think that was an extremely inspiring space, in a moment of turmoil, and uncertainty, and crisis. and that can't be underrated. it can't be overstated either. because in a moment like this, in a moment of tragedy, that's the only thing that we have. we don't know what's happening next, we don't know why this happened, we don't know why it went on. and so i was particularly

struck and inspired by the strength, the courage, and a result of everyone we heard from tonight. because it's such a big part of the conversation. and the other thing, that struck me stephanie, it is as i thought about it, and again we don't know why this happened. and likely, i can't fathom that there's any viable reason as to why any of this, senseless violence what happened. but as we process the amount of violence that we absorb as americans, i think back to an interview did with professor scott galloway, where he talked about americas male problem. >> young man. >> and this was someone, this was on a college campus, a young man, we've seen this movie before, stephanie. >> a crisis of loneliness. >> it is exactly what you talked about. people being isolated, filling, isolated this has to, on some

level. i realize this can be a conversation about gun laws, gun control, i understand that. but this point, we have to understand, that the mental health and security of men and boys in america, is becoming a public safety issue. >> men are breaking. >> and it's something that we understand undervalue in terms of its importance, but the backdrop to what i kept thinking of tonight, was its impact on this entire situation. as i'm watching this unfold, and again, so much we don't know. >> professor, stephanie, roy she was talking about the pain she said that the community is feeling, and she was actually talking about the pain the shooter is feeling. a crisis that he's in, she said it multiple times. frank, what are your thoughts? >> i think we're all talking about very similar things, how we get better at, indeed,

recognizing warning signs and indicators. how we get better as a society, providing hospital services. and university setting, thankfully i'm sure after this, i know many counseling sessions offered, and all that, but we have to meet the needs of people, have to get on my soapbox and briefly talk about the warning signs and indicators. because you don't want to be the one, out there that says, god, i thought something was wrong. i thought something might happen, and didn't speak out. but when someone is using, for example, the language of despondency. they're carrying grievances and grudges, the obsessing compulsively over, it they can't let this go. and then they begin to work towards articulating and desire to act out violently. maybe they even acquire the

weapon. maybe they go off and start training with a weapon, i can't take it anymore, i'm not gonna tolerate anymore, i've done everything i can. you hear that language of despondency. you've got to intervene, you've got to speak out, and chances are we'll find out this shooter, was leaking his grievances, was starting to talk about this. and then maybe even got really quiet into spirit, as he was right on the verge, that flash point of acting out. so we have to all get better training to recognize the warning signs. >> jim, your reaction to the press conference? there is no longer an active thrown on that campus. >> right, well that sadly, mean for tragic, night that is the good news, if there's nobody else in danger. but i saw the leitmotif that runs through so many of these mass shootings, and about half of them suicide is running run-ins as the threat that we don't seem to ever watch. and a lot of these shooters are

suicidal first, and then they decide to be a homicidal as well. and that's what we see. so my friend talked about the leakage, which is a very important topic to talk about. but suicidal people will leak their suicidal thoughts, and our plans, and a leak that out, and we're not picking up on that, and also a lot of these things, are that's a thread runs through it. here's the guy who goes out, commits spree murder, kills three, shoots five more, and as soon as he was confronted by the police. he can kill himself. well he probably had not thought all along when he went on this rampage and said he was gonna die tonight i was gonna be either shot by the police to kill himself and that's what we should pick up on just quickly to just say and build on what frank said is so important that fbi study said that 77% i think of this number.

77% of mass shooters leak their intent prior to the act. the killer at the top supermarket in buffalo a year prior was cited for saying he wanted to commit mass murder. and we're, not as a society, using that leakage, acting on it, you should've charged a man making a threat of a mass shooting. and we have a federal law, matt modeled up to the lautenberg man from new jersey, which is if you are convicted of misdemeanor, a crime of domestic violence, you can never buy a gun or have a gun. and so someone fans mass murderer, which is a terror starter mo states misdemeanor. and if we convicted an obvious demeanor, and you can never buy a gun or haugen. a law like that does not hurt

lawful gun owners. targets the mass killers, leaves the 77% a leak. so federal law with state law, stop the people that really can these thoughts. -- i would step up and pass the law. so are things we can do. but i do appreciate charles's wisdom on, it is totally write everything he, said frank as well. sad state of america. but these things are not good, but we need to do better at slowing them down, i think we can do a whole lot better on slowing them down. >> jim kavanaugh, frank, lucy my friend charles goldman, thank you all for being here tonight, we are signing off for now, for our breaking news coverage, of the active shooter situation, and michigan state university. now confirmed, three dead, five

in the hospital, some with potentially life-threatening injuries. and i suspect, the potential shooter, has died of a self inflicted gunshot wound. i'm signing off for this person 's coverage. thank you for being here, we have more coverage on the other side of the break. f the break. hi, i'm ron reagan, an unabashed atheist. and i'm alarmed, as you may be, by the intrusions of religion into our secular government. that's why i'm asking you to join the freedom from religion foundation, the nation's largest and most effective association of atheists and agnostics

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