proud wife of a combat veteran and as the mom of two amazing children. i have served as governor of the great state of south carolina. [ cheers and applause ] and as america's ambassador to the united nations. [ cheers and applause ] and above all else, i'm a grateful american citizen who knows our best days are yet to come if we unite and fight to save our country. [ cheers and applause ] i have devoted my life to this fight. and i'm just getting started. [ cheers and applause ] for a strong america, for a proud america, i am running for president of the united states of america!

[ cheers and applause ] [ chanting nikki ] when i look to the future, i see america strong once more. we will end inflation and build an economy that works for all, just like we did in south carolina. [ cheers and applause ] in the america i see every child gets a world class education because every parent gets to pick their child's school. [ cheers and applause ] and no politician will be able to close those schools ever again. [ cheers and applause ]

in the america i see police know we have their backs. [ cheers and applause ] and criminals know we have their number. [ cheers and applause ] and our states will be safe again. in the america i see we stop the surge of drugs and illegal immigration. that means having a real border and mandatory e-verify like we got done in south carolina. [ cheers and applause ] businesses must hire americans, not illegals. in the america i see everyone has full confidence in our

elections. voter i.d. will be the law of the land, just like we did in south carolina. [ cheers and applause ] the america i see is freer and better for all, because washington will finally serve the people instead of the political class. [ cheers and applause ] we will end corporate welfare and bailouts for big business, and we will end the earmarks and pork that fuel big government. [ cheers and applause ] and when it comes to our politicians, we will light a fire under 'em. [ cheers and applause ] their job is not to say things on tv. their job are to do things in d.c. like solve problems instead

of ignoring or creating them. [ cheers and applause ] in the america i see the permanent politician will finally retire. [ cheers and applause ] we will have term limits for congress. [ cheers and applause ] and mandatory mental competency tests for politicians over 75 years old. [ cheers and applause ] most of all, i see a strong america, because i see a proud america. strong and proud, not weak and woke. that's the america i see. [ cheers and applause ] the america i see will win the

fight for the 21st century. we will have the courage and confidence to defend our values and defeat our enemies. [ cheers and applause ] in this america, the armed forces of the united states will be stronger and more capable than ever. [ cheers and applause ] a strong military doesn't start wars. a strong military prevents wars. [ cheers and applause ] in this america we will start pumping more oil and gas and stop buying dirty oil from venezuela. [ cheers and applause ] we will stand with our allies from israel to ukraine, and stand up to our enemies in iran and russia. [ cheers and applause ]

in the america i see, communist china won't just lose. like the soviet union before it, communist china will end up on the ash heap of history. [ cheers and applause ] realizing this vision won't be easy. it will take an unparalleled level of commitment from all of us. it requires faith and a willingness to move past the status quo. and it will require doing something we've never done. [ cheers and applause ] like sending a tough as nails woman to the white house. [ cheers and applause ]

[ chanting nikki ] we need someone who can shake up washington and the political class. i've done it before. starting right here. i will always be grateful to the people of south carolina who took a chance on me. >> love you. >> i love you, too. >> when i ran against the longest serving legislator in the state, no one said i had a shot. but together, we won. when i ran for governor, people said, nikki who? but together, we won. [ cheers and applause ]

we cut taxes, created thousands of jobs and revitalized our economy. business journals started calling south carolina the beast of the southeast, which i love. when president trump nominated me for ambassador to the united nations, people said i didn't have the experience. then i went to work. [ cheers and applause ] i told the world that america would have the backs of our allies, and for those who didn't have our backs, we were taking names. [ cheers and applause ] the dictators, murderers and thieves at the u.n. didn't know what hit 'em. i've been underestimated before. that's always fun. and i've been shaking up the status quo my entire life. [ cheers and applause ]

as i set out on this new journey, i will simply say this, may the best woman win. [ cheers and applause ] [ chanting nikki ] >> got your back. >> i got your back, too. all kidding aside, this is not about identity politics. i don't believe in that. i don't believe in glass ceilings either. i believe in creating a country where anyone can do anything and achieve their own american dream.

the college student who is paying too much and getting too little from her education. the young adult in his first real job wondering how he will ever afford a mortgage or start a family. the single mom working two jobs and three times harder than everyone else. the small town dad who saw his factory leave town and thinks his future went with it. i'm fighting for all of us, because all of us have to be there this together. but hear this. unity does not come from faint hearts or watered-down compromises. that just leaves everyone wanting more. real national unity comes from boldly proclaiming our national purpose and persuading opponents to join us. my purpose is to save our country from the downward spiral

of socialism and defeatism. i aim to move america upward, toward freedom and strength. i will take this message far and wide in the days ahead. and i have a particular message for my fellow republicans. we've lost the popular vote in seven of the last eight presidential elections. our cause is right. but we have failed to win the confidence of a majority of americans. well, that ends today. [ cheers and applause ] if you are tired of losing, put your trust in a new generation. and if you want to win not just

as a party but as a country, stand with me. as my family and i start this journey, we ask for your prayers. and, yes, of course, we ask for your vote. but there's something else we need even more. something our country needs above all else. it's your spirit and your belief in america. look past the failed ideas of the leaders in washington and find the courage to be part of the solution. cast off the fear that our best days are behind us and join the movement for our country's renewal. see the same america i see, and stand for america together with me. i'm move confident than ever that we can make this vision real in our time. because that's what i have seen my entire life. as a brown girl growing up in a black and white world, i saw the promise of america unfold before

me. as the proud wife of a combat veteran, i saw our people's deep love of freedom and the determination to defend it. as governor, i saw our state move beyond hate and violence and lift up everyone in peace. and as ambassador, i saw that america is still the standard standard. who we are, the world wants to be. i will never forget the day as ambassador when i stood on the bridge between columbia and venezuela in south america. i watched thousands of venezuelans walk by holding their babies in the hot sun for hours to get the one meal they might get that day. where they came from, they had been killing zoo animals for food. they were fleeing socialism and yearning for freedom. when i left the bridge, the families started to gather

around me. i didn't understand why they flocked to someone they had never met. and then it hit me. they didn't care who i was. they cared where i was from. in me, they saw america. and in america, they saw hope. the time has come to renew that spirit and rally our people. our moment is now. our mission is clear. let's save our country and secure our future and let's move forward together toward our destiny in a strong and proud america. thank you! god bless you! and god bless america! [ cheers and applause ] with that nikki haley wraps up her announcement speech in south carolina. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. the 2024 republican primary race is on. donald trump now getting his first challenger, nikki haley.

his one-time u.n. ambassador, who had said she would never run against him. >> we are ready, ready to move past the stale ideas and faded names of the past. and we are more than ready for a new generation to lead us into the future. >> it's a long road to iowa and new hampshire next year as a host of fellow conservatives, including several other former trump cabinet members, are expected to join what is likely going to be a crowded field. joining me now, ali vitali in charleston, kimberly adkins-store, michael steele and jonathan lemire. ali, we saw the message in nikki haley's video yesterday. you have been covering her down there. she's calling for this new generation of leaders to step up. let's talk about how she made her case today. this is a real focus on

generation, people younger than 75 and also saying she's not playing identity politics, doesn't believe in glass ceilings, but by the way, we have never done this before, let's elect a woman. >> reporter: yeah. the way she contended with gender here, so fascinating to me. especially because it's the way that most republican candidates deal with the general idea of race and gender on the campaign trail. making a nod to it but making clear it's not the defining factor of their candidacy. haley saying the road ahead would be hard and would require voters to elect a woman to the white house. that was striking in that she's playing with gender in a way that most conservatives might expect her to, but also laying herself out as someone with both domestic policy chops but also deep experience abroad. you covered her during her time in the trump administration as

she was on the world stage. more focus on the foreign policy front than we typically hear from presidential contenders. it's something haley is one of few people can bring to the field. if mike pompeo jumps in, he will be in that realm. haley talking foreign and domestic politics. what struck me the most is as she talked about moving past the stale politics of the past, she wasn't focussed on the road she has to go down first, which is against trump. she was focused on president biden. that was clearly where she was training her focus as she made this generational argument. she's trump's first official challenger. that's who she is going to have to go through first. >> being first is important in a lot of ways. it can be a setback. michael steele, our team noting when candidates jump into the race earlier, like ted cruz, elizabeth warren in 2020, they

tend to do better in the primary races but not well enough to defeat the frontrunners. is this a good play? >> it's an interesting play. picking up on the idea of nikki getting into this race and sort of setting the tone early, i find it fascinating that she put herself in a position where she's a little inside and a little outside. she's trying to have a little bit of cake and eat it as well, politically. yes, i was in the trump administration, but i don't talk about him now. this idea of projecting to the general election, going after biden, not trump, not her -- not the big problem she has in front of her. it sends the message, i want you to size me up as a presidential candidate. this is the message i would take to biden. don't look at and get confused by the primary dance. you will like me in a general.

therefore, you want to be with me in a primary. it's interesting to see if voters look at it that way. trump certainly won't let her look at it that way. it's going to make -- at some point, nikki haley, like everybody else whose faces have been on the screen as potentials, will have to confront the 800-pound elephant, donald trump. >> her appeal really is more broadly, potentially, in a general election, she's got broad appeal as a person of color and as someone from a completely different background with different range of experience, more likely with independents and moderate democrats, than with the maga base. >> she does. the problem though is that she's been on again and off again with trump. all those voters you talked about, they are not aligned with trump and don't want to be and look suspiciously of people who were in his administration, people who said they were against him and are now for him and then against him again.

she's got to navigate troubled waters all the while being buffeted by trump who will lob things at her. her play may be vice president if it looks like trump really holds that front line for the nomination. right now, she's making that case. that's the interesting thing. >> kim, do you think that her past comments about president trump could be used as attack lines to appeal to the trump base? >> yeah, i think absolutely it will be. i think that highlights the problem mike was talking about, how she's going to have a difficult time getting through a primary. not only does her past connection with trump really turn off never trump voters, but the times she has been critical of him makes those who are part of the core maga base distrust her as well. you can see in her speech, she's trying to do -- have it both ways. she talked negatively about

immigration and used the world illegals, but at the same time told the story of how venezuelans see america as hope. she talked about where she grew up, her neighborhood was separated by railroad tracks. she's trying to please everybody. it ends up falling flat all around. she needs to try to figure out -- she's the first one out. all candidates have do that. we are watching her do that in real time. >> trump's group have put out a list of things she said. she said the reason i ran for office is because of hillary clinton. i can't fact check that instantly as to whether that's out of context. she supported paul ryan's plan

for entitlement reform, threatening medicare and social security, according to the trump campaign. they have a long list of things she's done that don't fit with the maga approach. >> yeah. it's going to be an interesting dance for both people here, trump and haley. first haley where there's call for generational change, get rid of tired, old, stale leadership. that could be aimed at donald trump. she has plausible deniability. there will be shots across the bow of haley. we should also note that the theory of the case here for trump and his advisors is, the more candidates jump in, the better it is for him. the more diluted the field is, the better there's a chance he can get through it with just his solid core base, that base that

never seems to leave him. i think we will see encouraging notes for pompeo and bolton and pence or whoever. they will take shots, too. the more people that get in, the better for trump to get through this. >> that's what happened last time. what does this say about the larger field? you have seen them up there on the screen, tim scott, a number -- hutchinson, pence. mike pence is speaking at this hour. one of the other nikki haley did is the generational change here. here she got really explicit. let's watch. >> america is not past our prime. it's just that our politicians are past theirs. our best days are yet to come, if we unite and fight to save our country. when i look to the future, i see america strong once more. the america i see the permanent politician will finally retire.

and mandatory mental competency tests for politicians over 75 years old. >> michael steele, how does that work, the mandatory -- >> it's stuff like that that tells me you are not serious. to sit there and propose the government is now going to force mental tests for politicians over 75. which politician will submit themselves to that? who gets to administer is? are you including donald trump in that? that is the first question i want to ask. were you thinking of biden and trump? to ali's point and others, this shows how this campaign is trying to walk a tightrope that right now i don't think it can walk. you are going to -- i'm going to continue to say this. you have to be all in on the proposition of losing this primary in order to win the presidency. you have to lay out clearness and qualities, but also ability to go after trump.

this mandatory testing for politicians is just silly. >> when is he going to be 75? >> i think his birthday is coming up. in time for the election. >> michael, ali, kimberly and jonathan, thanks to all of you. with nikki haley joining the presidential race, one former trump official thinks she's running for the vp spot. joining me is that official, john bolton, former trump national security advisor and former u.n. ambassador under george w. bush. we are not doing age checks here, mr. bolton. you are the same age as donald trump, i think. >> no, i am not. i'm much younger. at least two years. >> okay. i want to ask you about the campaign. let's talk about national security. jake sullivan was interviewed marking the first anniversary of the war in ukraine.

he made a point about the chinese surveillance balloons that have come into u.s. airspace that they have come before. >> chinese spy balloons had overflown our country without the knowledge of the previous administration because the radars weren't picking them up. >> your reaction? we know that there were previous incursions. they made it clear -- the administration made it clear there -- they didn't come up on the radar, people didn't know. they only went back recently in the last year or so and discovered it. you are getting briefed later today on this. what do you think our vulnerability is? do you fault the administration? >> i have about 1,000 questions to ask this afternoon. i don't know how long i'm going to have in the briefing. let me address first this question of what happened in the trump administration. the biden officials have now said about five different things

about what supposedly happened. the one we heard was that they weren't detected, these incursions, but they figured it out later. that's different than what they have said in other iterations. i can say with confidence, i never heard of anything like this. if these were detected but not raised to an appropriate level, that's a serious problem. if they were misassessed as weather anomalies, that's a problem. if the radar didn't detect them at all, that's another issue. i think what the administration is doing undercuts their own credibility. this is not a partisan issue. this is a national security issue. instead of trying to say the trump administration missed something or not, we will find out what the truth is one day or another. constantly changing their story is a big mistake. >> let me just clarify. my reporting -- i've been on this from day one the last

couple of weeks. they made it clear from the beginning that it was not detected until they, in office, went back and did the forensics and that they missed at least one also. they were saying that we have a problem here of what they call -- you heard the norad commander call -- >> the domain gap. >> that's what they were saying. that's why i think that they were not trying to fault you but trying to say, none of us have been looking enough at this. >> they had said different things, andrea. the nse spokesman said yesterday in the press briefing room that the prior administration detected them and didn't do anything. whereas, we, the biden administration detected them and did something. they ought to get their story straight. their story is not straight. they have gone through a whole

story of why they allowed the balloon to come across the united states without taking action. after that, they shot down three other objects, including one over the yukon territory. they said with respect to the first balloon that they were concerned about the safety on the ground. we should be. absolutely concerned about it. but there are a lot of ways do this. they concluded, they could shoot it down over yukon. was it because it was just canadians? look, we have got a serious problem here. the administration is selectively releasing information, perhaps declassifying it. i'm sure i'm not going to be allowed to declassify anything. they get to make the story the way they want it. they are trying to downplay this. let's be clear. the reaction overall of the administration has been

pathetic. the risk that the united states faces, its reputational risk, the risk of intelligence gathering, the risk of the chinese assessing our very air defenses and alertness is a very serious issue. i think it's going to continue to be a serious issue. >> let's turn to nikki haley. why do you think she's running to be -- you told kristin welker, you think she's running to be vice president. why do you think that? >> i don't think there's a serious case for her candidacy. i think it's a very difficult race for her to run because of the things she said in the past about donald trump. she said expressly, i'm not going to run if he's a candidate. her rationale for running at this point is, things have changed. well, things always change. but i think this inconsistency

is something that's exploitable by trump on the one hand and by her opponents on the other. i don't think there's a convincing case. i certainly listened to the announcement today and the several videos she put out. one the day before and one last week. i don't see what that substantive case is. >> you have quoted mike pompeo as saying she's light as a feather. would you say that about a man? >> let's compare with another woman. in the video trailer she put out last week, foreshadowing the announcement this week, she opened up with quotations from jean kirkpatrick. in the 1980s, i would see jean was america's margaret thatcher. a phenomenal person.

the idea that nikki is trying to associate herself with jean kirkpatrick i think is a little presumptuous. i will update lloyd benson's famous comment. i knew jean kirkpatrick. nikki haley is no jean kirkpatrick. >> i knew jean also. nikki haley is running as a former governor, someone who has been elected, who is considered and faced tough issues in south carolina as well as being u.n. ambassador. just wondering whether you are judging her on a different -- in a different way based on gender. >> of course not. let's compare it again to jean kirkpatrick on the most important qualification. intellectual ability. it's like comparing a destroyer to a surf board. they both go upon the water, but that's about it. >> you have said you are considering -- maybe considering a run yourself for president?

are you close to doing that? >> well, i am considering it. i had not thought initially of looking at it this year. but i was quite disturbed some months ago when president trump said that the constitution should be terminated so that he could be declared the winner of the 2020 election. i filled out a lot of security applications for jobs in the federal government in my time. there's usually a question in there that says something like, have you ever advocated the overthrow of the government of the united states? i check no. when you say you want to terminate the constitution, that is what you are advocating. i was disturbed by that. i was also disturbed by the lack of a clear rejection of that idea by people who are being talked about in the run for the presidency. it's got to be clear, no conservative can say the constitution should be terminated, period, closed quote. >> you are still considering it?

>> yes. i think it's a very interesting dynamic. some people have announced they're not getting in. others have not yet announced. i wouldn't do this unless i thought there was a serious chance. as i said, i did look at this in 2016 and decided not to. i think that it's extremely important that trump not get the nomination. i think republicans see this overwhelmingly. i think many people are misreading the polls. i don't really think he has a chance at the nomination. unless the field gets too crowded. i would not be a part of an overcrowded field if i thought that were an issue. >> ambassador john bolton, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. the sorrow and anger as we learn more about those killed at michigan state university on monday. students on campus take a stand. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. mitchell reports." this is msnbc.

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new details today about the gunman's criminal past as the michigan state community comes together for a sit-in protest on the steps of the state capital to remember the three students killed on campus monday night. five other students remain hospitalized. for some of their classmates, this is the second mass shooting they have survived. shaq brewster is outside the msu student union and joins us now. the student union is where the second part of the attack took place. talk to me about how the campus is trying to recover. >> reporter: andrea, in the next hour or so, students who were in the student union who fled the scene, leaving their laptops, phones, they will be able to go back into the building one by one, escorted by an fbi agent. as i have been going around

campus, many are focused on the three individuals who were lost. starting with brian, a sophomore on this campus. his family says he was a good kid loved by everyone. president of his fraternity. the fraternity saying as leader, he was a friend to his brothers. the greek community at michigan state and those he interacted with on campus. there's arielle, she's kind, loving, driven and family oriented. there's alexandria, high school superintendent saying, if you knew her, you loved her. we will remember the lasting impact she had on all of us. this comes as the university is confirming the five students hospitalized are still hospitalized and are in critical condition. we spoke to the chief of police here. as they continue their investigation, they are saying that there is no word on motive.

no known connection that the suspect had with this university. >> shaq brewster, thank you. the trail mix. former vice president mike pence headed to iowa. is he ready to jump into the race? we will talk to vaughn hillyard coming up. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. mitcc mara, are you sure you don't want -to go bowling with us tonight? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are -- exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones. let's roll, daddio! let's boogie-woogie!

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astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can [ spray, spray ] astepro and go. right now in minneapolis, former vice president mike pence is focusing on the so-called woke left. >> the truth is, the average american today is being dragged into a left wing culture war that's invaded our schools. our colleges and our workplace. every day we are told we must not only tolerate the left's obsessions with race and sex and gender, but we must earnestly and enthusiastically participate. >> it's a preview of pence's

rally later today in iowa on the same day nikki haley, of course, just launched her 2024 bid. pence is expected to follow her entrance into the race. vaughn hillyard is keeping tabs on this from iowa. what are you expecting from the vice president today beyond this? >> reporter: right. good afternoon. he held that event in minnesota because of a school district here in cedarrapids which will be the place of his second speech. there's a lawsuit from parents here against a school district which last year put into place a gender affirming policy for students on campus that identified as a different gender and were able to be granted the ability to identify usingpronou.

the lawsuit, mike pence is supporting the parents. we should expect this to be one of the right wing culture issues that the republican candidates go hard on. donald trump two weeks ago came out with a policy calling for if he were to become president, a ban on gender affirming care for minors around the country. called for the department of justice to go after hospitals and health care providers who go forward with the surgeries for minors here. you have heard this from the likes of ron desantis. in the last half hour, donald trump put out a statement followingfollow ing nikki haley's announcement,

she said the bill was unnecessary at the time. we should see not only donald trump and ron desantis but mike pence use these culture issues here as a gateway to their presidential campaigns. >> vaughn hillyard, back in iowa. thank you so much. federal prosecutors investigating donald trump's mishandling of classified documents are taking an aggressive new approach to force trump's lawyer to break attorney/client privilege. jack smith wants the judge to invoke the crime fraud investigation suggesting trump had conversations that were in furtherance of a crime. how important is this as a signal of the direction jack smith is going in? >> it's a signal in a couple of ways. first to your point, that they are being aggressive in seeking

evidence. second, andrea, they are trying to pierce the attorney/client privilege to force mr. trump's lawyer to testify in a federal grand jury. let me just explain that a bit. if you were my lawyer, if i was fortunate to have you as my lawyer, and i was trying to commit a crime and using you to do it, our conversations, which are presumptively privileged, normally off limits, would not be privileged in that circumstance. prosecutors could seek to convince a federal judge that i was using you to commit a crime. you may or may not be complicit. doesn't matter. to try and learn through you what our conversations were. that's what the smith team is doing now. they're trying to force mr. trump's lawyer to testify because they believe a crime may have been committed. >> does this indicate to you that they are pretty far along in this investigation? >> right. this is not the type of thing you do at the beginning of an investigation. you amass all your facts. you talk to the witnesses. you get closer and closer to the

center of the case. you don't get much closer to the center of the case than to mr. trump and his lawyers. it suggests to me they are well along. doesn't mean they are done. doesn't mean that charges are imminent. but they are certainly closer to the end. >> we just saw vaughn hillyard in iowa where mike pence is going to give a speech today. he is looking very much the candidate. we know he is fighting the subpoena to testify to the special counsel about january 6. he has a novel legal argument. he can't be forced to testify because he was president of the senate and, therefore, it would be a violation of the constitution's speech and debate clause. this is the first time i'm hearing the former vice president claim he was a member of the executive branch. you tell me. you are the lawyer.

>> i'm not a very good one but here it goes. >> i differ. >> when i heard that mr. pence was going to invoke the speech and debate clause, which holds they can't be questioned for their legislative work, that sounded silly to me. it sounded frivolous. but there is an argument for him to make, which is the constitution also provides in limited circumstances a role in the senate for the vice president. you know this, of course, to break ties. on january 6, to preside over the counting of the electoral vote. like a lot of these things that we have talked about over the last several years, it's going to be litigated. which means even if mr. pence's team loses -- it's determined, to your point, that he is not really a member of the legislative branch, it's going to take a while to figure that out. if they are trying to buy time, that part is going to succeed.

>> tomorrow on another front, but related to january 6, of course, and donald trump, the fulton county report of the special grand jury, parts of it are going to be released. >> that's right. i understand why the d.a. would object. she has an ongoing serious grand jury investigation. you don't want details spilled into the public. i understand why the judge is going to permit parts of that report to be released, because the judge is trying to balance the public's interest in knowing what their elected officials are doing with the interest that the d.a. has in secrecy and preserving the integrity of the investigation. my guess is, we're not going to learn very much about the investigation. as you recall when the mueller report was first released, parts were redacted to protect ongoing grand jury investigations. and for other reasons. we will see some stuff. i don't imagine we're going to

see the good stuff. >> the good stuff. we keep waiting for the good stuff. chuck rosenberg, thank you very much. nbc news is reporting white house is considering having the president give a speech, perhaps by the end of this week, on the shooting down of balloons and other unidentified objects as pressure is mounting from capitol hill for him to address the issue. jake sullivan in an exclusive interview to air for the one-year anniversary of the war in ukraine disclosed the latest intelligence on the objects. >> what we can say is that our intelligence community has, at this point, a leading explanation that they are looking at that, in fact, these objects are benign. we are also putting into place protocols now for how to manage the fact that there will be balloons from commercial and research and civilian entities flying in america airspace. because what this whole episode has shown us is there are a lot more things in the sky that are

unidentified, are unclaimed that need to be managed and dealt with. and we now have a process in place do that. >> joining me is tim kaine, who serves on the foreign relations and armed services committee. the white house says that the unidentified objects could be for commercial or academic research, that's the leading theory now, benign. some lawmakers are asking if they were really a threat. were they worth the price, millions of dollars of shooting them down? did they overreact? >> i don't think they overreacted. but it means we have to get answers. even if the intelligence community determines they are benign, they are still flying at a level that could interfere with commercial aviation. they shouldn't be there. where should they be? what are the rules? they be? what are the rules? are the rules enforced? as you get into, you know, high altitudes and space, we still don't have, you know, rules of the road necessarily, and we're putting more and more satellites

in space for military or research or communications purposes, vastly more than we've ever done before. it just points out the need for more rules. >> did you get your questions answered in questioned's classified briefing? a lot of your colleagues came out and said both parties, they were not satisfied. we heard from mark warner, rubio, a lot of the others, that they thought that their briefing could have been made public, 95% of it, and that it was not answering their questions. >> andrea, i've got to be careful because it was classified but i would say let's separate the two instances. on the chinese spy balloon, my questions have generally been answered but i'm going to come back to a big worry in a sec. we're real proud that it was taken down by a jet out of lang leer air force in virginia, and the rescue mission to recover items was also out of virginia. that's great. i did get my questions generally answered about that, but there's not enough information yet to

really provide answers on the other three items. but here's my biggest worry, and this was a question i asked that i have not gotten a good answer to. but it doesn't really get into the classified space, so i'll share it with you as i have shared it. why didn't the chinese military officials pick up secretary lloyd austin's phone call, when he's calling to try to discuss what's going on? i mean, as you know, during the cold war as tough as it was between the u.s. and the soviet union, there was communication because both nations realized what we don't want to do is to have an accident, miscalculation unnecessarily escalation, and you avoid that with communication channels. there were repeated effort to reach out to the chinese. the chinese wouldn't pick up the phone. we had an armed services hearing today that was open, and i asked some china experts about this, and they say they tend to think mechanisms like communications lines more work to the u.s.'s advantage than china's. i challenged them on that.

i said, wait, china wants stability. they've often shown by their behavior that they want stability rather than chaos. communication promotes stability, even if not agreement, so why is the diplomatic relationship at a point where china won't answer a phone call? this is the thing that troubles me the most out of this and that we have to really work to improve communication channels just so that we avoid accidents and miscalculations. >> and actually, china's top diplomat wong ye has confirmed he's going to munich to the security conference the next day or so. secretary blinken will be there, i'm going to cover it, so maybe that communication issue can be resolved. they said today again that the u.s. has overreacted and that it drifted in -- it was not being steered, that it was an accident, a mistake that that chinese balloon drifted in. do you think that's accurate? >> well, i'm suspicious of that. you know, if -- this was a

vehicle that had a steering capacity, so might it have drifted because of prevailing winds? yes, but they also had the ability to maneuver it, and they either chose not to or maybe it malfunctioned and they were unable to, but this is not, you know, a balloon with no propulsion. this is something they have the ability to maneuver, and what we know is it came into the united states, and they didn't -- i mean, it was news when it was in montana. why didn't they maneuver it back north and take it out of u.s. air space to just show that, you know, if it was an accident, they could have taken a step to show that it was an accident. so there are still some questions that we don't know, but i am, as you pointed out, i am hopeful that at the munich security forum, the foreign minister and secretary of state can have a dialogue because, again, as competitive as this relationship is, even adversarial on occasion, communication is necessary to

avoid unintentional miscalculations, which as you know, the global history is filled with unintentional miscalculations that led to disasters. for our own safety and for the security of the world, we need to try to reduce the risk of accidents. >> and the defense secretary lloyd austin was interviewed exclusively by my colleague courtney kube in brussels today about these unidentified objects. let's watch. >> i'm not aware of any additional objects that have been reported operating in the space in the last 48 hours, so but in terms of whether or not the debris is important, it's absolutely important, and we're going to do everything we can to recover debris, if it's possible. that will help us learn a lot more about, you know, what these objects are. >> and that was, of course, lloyd austin at the news conference. he's about to sit down right now with courtney kube, we'll have that of course on msnbc later in

the day. but what information are you hoping that we can learn from -- that you want to learn from the chinese and from the intelligence community now? >> yeah, first, there's alternate explanations for the last three instances. is it connected to china's surveillance program or is it potentially, again, commercial university research, benign uses? and again, it's not completely benign if it's in civilian air space. it poses a risk. but exactly whose platforms were these? that's very important. and then you learn, okay, if they're benign platforms but they're operating in civilian air space, what kind of signaling should they have? what kind of permission should they get to be operating in an air space where they could conflict with civilian air operations. andrea, that might not have been a challenge 50 years ago or even 20 or ten years ago. we're just putting so much more

up into the atmosphere and space that we have to have a rigorous protocol to keep people safe. if it's not part of the chinese program, then we have to understand why were they there, and what changes do we need to make to ensure everyone's safety. >> we only have a few seconds left, but i know that you think that this time after years you're going to get a bipartisan coalition to repeal the juarez legal conclusion, the authorization for the use of force in 1991 and 2002. >> i've been a little bit like senator sis fus on this, i keep pushing the bill to have it roll back. i have a really amazing republican co-partner, todd young, 27 senators, 11 democrats, 11 republicans and a sizable and very bipartisan group of sponsors on the house side were coming up on the 20th anniversary of the invasion of iraq in march of 2003, and there now seems to be some sense, iraq's not an enemy anymore, they're a partner working

against aggression, working against isis. let's repeal the war authorization and acknowledge the current reality. >> senator tim kaine, as always, thank you so much. >> you bet, glad to. >> that's it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." i'll be live from munich tomorrow. follow the show online and on twitter. and chris jansing will be here after this short break. rt break precisely orchestrate nearly 600,000 vehicles passing through their uk port every year. don't just connect your business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence.

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