. good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. a new update from the governor of ohio, no sign, he says, of contaminants in the air or water of east palestine, despite the chemicals released during that train derailment two weeks ago. so why do residents say they keep getting sick? more on that and what one lawsuit says about the kind of chemicals they're dealing with coming up. plus, george santos grilled

on nearly $400,000 missing from his campaign filings. he says he doesn't know anything about it, and despite lying about everything from his family to where he went to college, he says he's, quote, operated honestly. and the extraordinary pressures of public life taking a toll on government officials around the world like never before. what's behind it and what can be done about it? but we start in east palestine, ohio, where even as the governor holds another briefing, residents remain skeptical and scared, having trouble believing their town is safe even after federal and state officials have come there to tell them otherwise. they say the evidence that something is wrong has been in front of them since the day that train packed with toxic chemicals derailed two weeks ago, from the noxious smell to the growing number of people getting sick. >> don't say you're safe, you're fine, raise your babies here even though they're getting sick

and having nosebleeds, god nose what we're going to see in 5, 10, 20 years. >> people were getting sick. we should not have been like back into town until all of this was done. >> we dug into one lawsuit. it alleges that more than 1 million pounds of a cancer-causing chemical vinyl chloride was released after the train crash. that's more than double what was released by all the industries that used that chemical in the entire country in 2021. all of it presenting a huge challenge for officials, including governor mike dewine taking his own shot at convincing residents just a little while ago. >> i understand people have been traumatized, and i understand skepticism. sometimes skepticism is warranted. nothing wrong with healthy skepticism, but all i can do as governor of the state of ohio is tell you we have the best experts we can get, and we have

the best equipment that there is available to do the testing. we believe the testing is accurate. we've got a lot of people in here who have absolutely no reason to be lying, no reason to be minimizing this, and i have no reason to minimize this. >> i want to bring in nbc's george solis is in in palestine, h, nbc's carol lee covering the white house for, and former maryland congresswoman donna edwards is with us as well. george, what else did the governor have to say today? >> reporter: yeah, good afternoon, chris. you heard the governor trying to strike a more positive tone saying, look, we have been inside numerous homes, 500, checking the air quality, and things are on the up and up. we have not forgotten about you, we are still monitoring this, and we do want to hold the train operator accountable. what that accountability looks like, could not say. one of the questions that was brought up during that press conference is why not declare a

disaster declaration and have fema come here pause this is, in fact, a disaster. he says at this point fema says there isn't enough happening here to officially declare a disaster declaration but they are filing the paperwork necessary. so should norfolk southern stop paying there is that plan in place to make sure the residents are not left hanging. also mentioned a number of federal agencies will be on the ground. the cdc, health and human services setting up a clinic here for those people that are experiencing those symptoms who are saying they are females sick as a cause of this derailment, that their cries are not being ignored. he understands people are feeling sick. they are stressing the importance that the consistent and repeated testing of the air and the waterways here show that it is safe to be in your home and it is safe to return, chris. >> congresswoman, i want to dig deeper into why these folks are scared. we know that these train cars carried vinyl chloride. that is associated with an

increased risk of liver, brain, and lung cancer, lymphoma, leukemia. and i want to read from the lawsuit. residents exposed to vinyl chloride may already be undergoing dna mutations that may not manifest as a clinical cancer diagnosis for years or decades. so given that, is it enough for the government -- and you heard the governor, and he seems earnest about it, to say you have to trust us. we've got the best experts here for the epa administrator to come in, sit in their homes and say we've got this. >> look, i think that that -- i listened to the governor's remarks, and i think that he was trying to reassure the residents of east palestine, but i also know that it's important to take note of how people feel and what's going on with them, and so the announcement today that hhs and cdc would be on the ground in the city to be able to

monitor, test, and check out residents i think is also very reassuring. but we also have to dig deeper into why this -- why this happened. there are thousands and thousands of towns across the country where these chemicals ride through on the freight rail, and can impose a great danger, and i think as the governor said, you cannot discount that people are indicating that they have symptoms like rashes and burning eyes, and other kinds of respiratory irritations, and so it's important to get to the bottom of this and then to hold norfolk southern accountable for this disaster. >> in addition to health concerns, carol, as we've heard from many of the residents, there are financial concerns, right? there was a guy who said i don't want to go back to my house. i don't think it's safe, but i don't have the money to go

anywhere else. i don't have anywhere else to go, which is why they want fema to come in, which is what george was talking about. what's the white house saying about that? can you give us more background? >> sure, they're saying a couple of things. one, we heard the white house press secretary point out that this is a situation that's very different and requires far more than what fema can provide, and so that's partly what their argument is here. at the same time, they're also saying that this is something that fema is actually involved in the sense that they're coordinating with the emergency operations center in east palestine, and they're also coordinating with the ohio emergency management services, and so for now, the white house is saying that there's not much else that fema can do, whether that holds remains to be seen. one thing we know is that president biden spoke with governor dewine and coming out of that call, the white house said that president biden said that the federal government would continue to provide whatever resources it could that

meet the needs of that community. so whether this will change, we don't know. but for now the white house is saying that fema does not have the sort of role you see them play in natural disasters like tornados and hurricanes. this situation is very different, so they're playing a different type of role, and they're pointing to the fact that the federal government has sent resources from the health and human services department, the centers for disease control, the epa and other agencies, but it remains to be seen whether there's anything more they decide to do when it comes to fema. >> so george, we've talked always about east palestine, but i want to play part of what another resident said about the impact beyond that town. take a listen. >> don't forget about the people that live outside of east palestine are affected by this disaster, you know. that's my key in this thing. i mean, negatively affected, destroyed because of norfolk southern, and what am i supposed to do for a clean water source right now? i have a family.

i have friends that live down there. are we supposed to use 5 gallon jugs of water to take a shower? it's ridiculous is what it is. >> that's one of the big concerns, george, that we've heard that rain potentially could take some of these chemicals into different waterways. what's the discussion around that, and is anything being acknowledged or done about it? >> reporter: yeah, that's right, chris. we actually spoke to a number of people in the next town over who are concerned all of this is moving downstream towards them. there are response teams in place to mitigate any kind of runoff that may occur from the rain. at this point we have not seen any rain here today. there is some sleet and some snow that you might be able to see falling. there's also dams that are going to be built to make sure the contamination doesn't spread. they are monitoring the waterways. they've been testing a number of wells, and those test results have been showing that the water is safe. as far as the messaging that has been sort of mixed as far as the bottled water versus being able

to drink from your faucet, the governor saying people on city water should be fine. they should be able to drink their water. those that have not had their well tested out of an abundance of caution, it is recommended that you still drink that bottled water, but again, the message from the governor is that the teams are here and there is infrastructure that will be built to ensure that any water contamination does not happen should those rain start to move in. >> i want to go back to something you said in the beginning, which is the fact that these kinds of chemicals travel through towns across america frequently, right? you were on the transportation committee when you were in congress, so these are issues that you're up on. norfolk southern just had their second derailment. now, there weren't any toxic chemicals involved, but again, another derailment. what should be the federal action here from a legislative standpoint? is this a situation where congress should hold hearings? i mean, what should lawmakers be doing to try to, if not prevent, at least mitigate the chances of something like this happening

again? >> look, i would expect that as congress goes through the appropriations process that there will be hearings that will be held, but also the transportation committee, the railroad subcommittee. i would expect that all of those, and perhaps oversight -- government oversight and reform as well, and that is entirely appropriate. i also think it's important to act on facts, and i think right now governor dewine is indicating, the testing continues to go on in the water supplies, any resident who wants to have their well tested, the governor said can do that or to have the air quality around their home tested as well, and so all of these things will be appropriate areas of inquiry. after all, freight rail system is a private system. there is government regulation, but it is a private system. they're responsible for

maintaining, for making sure that the trains are safe that are going through. ultimately this really is going to come down to the responsibility of norfolk southern and the industry making sure that they're following regulation. you know, trains have actually -- these freight trains have actually gotten longer over the last couple of years. i think there needs to be an inquiry into whether those things are related to safety as they travel through towns across america. >> something we have to watch for as this moves forward. former congresswoman donna edwards, george solis, carol lee, thank you all for being with us. the family of tyre nichols looked on in a memphis courtroom as all five former memphis officers who are charged with being responsible for the 29-year-old's death pleaded not guilty. each is facing charges of second degree murder, aggravated assault, kidnapping, misconduct and official oppression.

nbc's guad venegas is live for us in memphis. did we hear anything today from tyre nichols' family? >> reporter: chris, as you mentioned, they all pled not guilty, and we did hear from the family after that short hearing. we also heard from one of the attorneys of one of these former officers who said there's no definitive cause of death, something that was discussed after the hearing. the family came outside the courtroom ask spoke to the media. tyre's mother visibly emotional, had a hard time to get some words out to the media. this is part of what she said during that press conference. >> i feel very numb right now. i feel very numb, and i'm waiting for this nightmare basically that i'm going through right now, i'm waiting for somebody to wake me up, right? i'm really waiting for somebody to wake me up, but i also know that's not going to happen, okay? i know my son is gone. i know i'll never see him again,

but we have to start this process of justice right now. >> now, she added it was very important for her to be here as they began what she called the process of justice. she said she plans to attend all of these court hearings. and it became even more emotional when she went on to talk about the five former officers saying she wanted to look at her in the eye, something they did not do, and for some reason she says that's important to her. she says, well, it's very important for her to have these officers look at her in the eye at some point during these hearings. now, also the attorney for the family also said that they are waiting for an autopsy. there was talk also after this hearing about more videos being in existence, videos that could bring up more charges for perhaps some other officers. there's a lot of questions unanswered. we know the next day they will be back in court is may 1st.

>> guad venegas, thank you so much for that update. a new poll shows the battle for the 2024 gop nomination is a two-man race. the ambitious new schedule for one of the front runners. plus, george santos defends himself, but very briefly. what the embattled congressman is now saying about his campaign finance scandal. and are the pressures of being in public life worse than ever? an important discussion as two world leaders resign and a u.s. senator is being treated for depression. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. reports" only on msnbc age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor.

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and get healthier with golo. now it's basically a two-man race for the gop presidential nomination, and while donald trump hasn't held a campaign event in nearly three weeks, his undeclared opponent, governor ron desantis is on the move. he'll be in the chicago area on monday to speak to a powerful local police union. then next month he'll headline republican events in alabama, california, and texas. could this all be a prelude to desantis moving himself from potential to declared candidate, joining trump and nikki haley. let's bring in nbc news senior politics reporter john allen and republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, rick tyler. good to see you guys. illinois, california, alabama, texas, two red states, two

blue states, what does it say about the potential 2024 ambitions of ron desantis? >> he's in demand. people in these states want to hear from ron desantis. that's a big thing at this point. i would think about these states less from the perspective of red and blue, and more from the perspective of their importance in a republican primary. illinois, california, and texas, the number of delegates available in those states in a republican primary season is huge. so you're really looking at a candidate who has a home base in florida, also going out to texas and illinois, huge delegate hauls. >> nothing more valuable than a candidate's time, i always follow two things, the travel schedule and the money, right? >> yeah, well, those happen to be big fund-raising states also. >> yeah. >> he can't raise money, remember, for his election yet

because he's not a declared candidate, but jonathan clearly points out that he is on the move and he's got his eye on the prize. he's also the only candidate on the republican side so far where there's an existing poll that he beats joe biden in a race. donald trump doesn't have that. desantis does. >> so, it isn't often we have horse races like this at this point, if you go back to 2008, i guess you've got barack obama and hillary clinton for the democrats, john mccain and rudy giuliani for republicans, though i think a lot of people forget what that race was, but do you think for somebody like desantis, is there more upside or downside to being an early front runner? >> being an early front runner always has a downside because you become a target. he doesn't have to declare right away because he's in high demand. people know who he is. they want to hear from him already. nikki haley has a different problem. she is not known, and she needs

to get out there, which is probably why she declared to generate some news so people might get to know her, but the longer -- particularly with trump in the race, that ron desantis does not declare is probably better for him. >> senator tim scott has also been testing the waters. in a radio interview he was asked whether there's room for two candidates from south carolina. >> i bet there's room for three or four. certainly there's definitely room for two. i wish nicki well, she's a smart, constructive individual. she served our state and our nation well and i have nothing but good thoughts and prayers for her health and for her success as she tries to communicate her message to the american people. >> john, conventional wisdom seems to be if you're going to beat trump, you better be ready to rumble. he's got nothing but good thoughts and prayers, of course he's talking about nikki haley. but what are you hearing about tim scott? anything? >> republicans universally sort

of love tim scott. if you talk to folks on capitol hill where he served in the house and is now a senator. he's very well-liked, not just on the republican side. he's got friends on the democratic side too. part of the reason is that he's the kind of candidate that goes out there and says he wishes nikki haley the best. he doesn't have anything bad to say about her. it will be interesting to see if donald trump attempts to attack him at any point and how tim scott responds to that. he has always sort of brought a sunny optimism to his brand of politics, and that's something that's resonated well in terms of making him friends. it's not always proved to be the best way to win a nomination fight. >> rick, whomever the republicans eventually decide to nominate, the rnc chair says she wants to show unity, so she plans to require all the candidates in the primary debates to first pledge their support to the eventual nominee. donald trump has already said he will not commit to that. i mean, what do you make of this? remember when supporting your party's nominee was kind of a

given? >> i do and i also remember that donald trump was the only candidate in one particular debate who refused to support the eventual nominee. he's not going to support the nominee. i've been saying this for a long time. there's no way. if he were to support the nominee, he would tacitly be saying this is a better man or woman than i who can beat joe biden. that's not in his dna, there's tho way he's going to do that. you know what? maybe it's a good thing. there are probably plenty of people on that stage who would not support donald trump if he were the nominee. he's given them an out now. >> interesting, rick tyler, john allen, thank you both so much. have a great weekend. george santos and a lot of new information in just a five-minute interview. what the controversial congressman is saying about campaign finance irregulariies and whether he'd run again. that's next. again that's next. 5g network in america?

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local new york reporter. he didn't sit for long, though. the agreement was five minutes, and a timer went off at the end of the interview. but in one key section, he was questioned about hundreds of thousands of dollars in suspicious campaign payments, 1,200 of them for $199.99. that's just under the $200 threshold that requires expenses to be itemized, 1,200 times, that's what was claimed. >> how do you spend 199.99. >> so that's the interesting thing. i don't believe those were spent. these are either clerical errors or system errors that just need to be addressed, so i strongly can tell you 199 were not charges, not to my knowledge, at least not those many times. my honest opinion is to think that there is some kind of technical issue there or clerical error. >> nbc's sahil kapur is on

capitol hill. are you hearing any reaction on capitol hill? >> reporter: a lot of these controversies tend to fall squarely in the political arena. this one is different. it involves alleged campaign finance violations, which can at times come with criminal penalties. in this case you have this bizarre situation where the santos campaign apparently reported spending $199.99 on a whole bunch of things. that includes things like restaurants, flights, uber rides, hotels, including according to "the washington post" one fancy hotel in miami where rooms tend to start at $600 a night. experts have looked at this and said it's exceedingly unlikely these payments are organic and reported that campaigns typically don't report a single expense for this amount between $199 and $199.99. it's rare to have any of those expenditures. santos denies any wrongdoing. he says that it maybe a clerical

error, although he said he has been made aware of the complaint from the fec. let's play what he had to say. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> i have not been reached out by any regulatory agency personally, and my attorneys have received the complaints. that's as much complaint as we have received. >> are you going to run again? >> i don't know yet. >> reporter: now also in that interview, chris, santos dismissed a sienna college poll of his district on queens in long island showing that 78% of his constituents want him to resign. he said he has many allies in congress although he didn't name a single name. he would be introducing bills when the house returned in a little over a week that would be district focused. beyond that, the house is out of session this week and next. george santos is not on any committees, he's faced calls to resign including from some of his fellow new york republicans. he's keeping that door open to running for re-election in 2024. >> but was that also the timer

we heard going off saying your five minutes are up? >> reporter: he offered exactly five minutes. it sounded like one of his aides wanted to stick to that precise time, chris. >> sahil kapur, thank you so much. up next, a first look going inside rudy giuliani's rise to power and fall from grace. the director will join me next. ? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are -- exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones. let's roll, daddio! let's boogie-woogie! a ballet studio, an architecture firm... and homemade barbeque sauce. they're called 'small businesses.'

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giuliani story" it's a deep look at how his political identity was formed. >> i want to introduce rudy giuliani, and maybe i'll ask rudy to say a few words. >> what you said the priorities so we can have a very, very close working relationship. >> there's no appeasing people like rudy. there's no appeasing people like trump. there are people whose core value is white supremacy. >> joining me now the director of the documentary, rebecca gitlitz, also an executive producer at "time." i am through three of the four. i only got it last night. it's fascinating, and i'm reminded that when he first entered public life, i mean, people were impressed by him. in your documentary people used words like integrity, moral, reform-minded, somebody who took on the mob and wall street. in total, though, after 18 months or so of looking into this deeply, who's the rudy giuliani you found? >> i think what's interesting about the film itself is that

who rudy giuliani is really depends on who you ask, and so what we did and what time studios really has a history of doing is looking at the full 360 holistic story, and so i think what we found is that what happened to america's mayor is sort of a fallacy. he's always been this person that he is now. >> who is that person who he is now? i mean, i'm thinking about the rouge, for example, who, again was widely admired for going after the mob, going after crooks on wall street, but then also the rudy giuliani of the city hall riots and crown heights, right? i want to play just a little bit more of the documentary. >> he knew how to play from a pretty early time, a pretty good game of political hardball. >> we've lost any ability to control the people who come into the united states. >> that's the reagan administration's opinion on immigration policy as expressed

by associate attorney general rudolph giuliani. he says reagan's policy of detention, and interdiction of haitian refugees has been a deterrent to new arrivals. >> he saw black people pretty much as offenders, attitude to haitians, what he did to them, people remember, the whole idea of corralling people, putting them in the detention in the florida every glades. >> one of those people who is in detention is not in jail because any one of them can easily leave and go back to hhaiti. >> i think he's possessed with the anger of the exile, i think his family ran away from black people in brooklyn. >> were the clues long there that this was the guy that could stand up on 1/6? >> i love that you showed that clip because i think giuliani of those years was deeply ambitious, right? he always showed that he wanted to climb this ladder and when he was in the reagan administration, he started as a democrat, then became an independent, then became a republican. so he's always self-serving,

right? always looking for who's going to help him climb you know, jimmy breslin has this amazing line that rudy is a dictator looking for a balcony. i think that really sums up who giuliani is. >> i honestly have several more pages of questions and last night as i was watching it, i was like ooh, ooh, i'm going to ask her about this. people should just watch it. it really is i think an important look at somebody who has become a critical figure in the conversation that we're having right now about who we are as a country. rebecca gitlitz, thank you so much. we really appreciate it, and you should be sure to catch "when truth isn't truth: the rudy giuliani story" it's this sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern, you can also see it streaming on peacock. have the pressures of public life now become far too extreme. what three recent examples tell us about the politics of anger and division. and an exclusive one on wun with vice president kamala

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life in 2023. a spokesman for senator john fetterman says he checked himself in for treatment for worsening depression as he worked to adjust to life in the senate. one of millions of americans battling depression. it's something his chief of staff says fetterman has dealt with, quote, on and off his whole life but only became severe in recent weeks. he is just the latest public figure to be open about how an excruciaingly partisan post-pandemic world is taking a serious toll as we saw recently with the resignations of the leaders of new zealand and scotland. i want to bring in jake sherman, former missouri secretary of state john candor who has been open about his own struggles with mental health, and dr. kanly syrus, a psychiatrist in washington, d.c., and a board member of the committee to protect health care. it's good to have all of you here. secretary, i don't want to conflate clinical depression with the extraordinary pressures these two women felt before they

stepped down, but they have all absolutely experienced and talked about the viciousness that comes with being a politician today. the former first minister of scotland shared this. this is a much greater intensity, dare i say it, brutality to life as a politician than in years gone by, and i wonder how your own personal experience informs the lens through which you're watching what we've seen unfold over the last month or so. >> well, you know, my experience is a little different in that it's related to post-traumatic stress as a result of my deployment to afghanistan -- >> so we are going to wait to try to see if we can get him back, but jake, i've been interested in the reaction we've soon on capitol hill, senator tina smith has been outspoken in the past about her own struggles with mental health, and she shared this on twitter. seeking help when you need it is a sign of strength, not weakness. something that john is demonstrating for all of us. overall, as i said, the reaction

has been supportive. is it an overstatement to see it as a sign that we are coming at least some way in understanding these struggles, or maybe other people in congress better than anybody get it? >> well, two things are going on, chris. number one, yeah, i do think that struggling with mental health challenges is becoming more common place in society just overall, i mean, we detailed in our morning edition this morning, thomas eagleton who in the 1960s and '70s was forced off of a presidential ticket after talking about his mental health struggles. now people are mostly gracious when someone has a problem like this. i would say this is, chris, a big departure from the norm. right? you usually see on capitol hill people hide their health conditions or people get propped up by staff or by family for too long, and that's a difficult -- a difficult reality of being on capitol hill is that people grow old and people don't want to

confront that fact, and you see members of congress walking around the building a shadow of their former self. you see it today. we've seen it in past congresses, and it's just -- it's sad to see. but the reaction of vis-a-vis senator fetterman has been heartening to see, let's say that at the least. i mean, this is somebody who had a stroke on the campaign trail, you know, clearly slowed down during the campaign, and then returned and got to washington, has to deal with a grueling schedule, plus the fact that he has trouble processing auditory remarks and has to carry around an ipad with closed captioning. i mean, this is an exhausting job even for somebody who's very healthy, very young, very spry. somebody who suffered something as traumatic as a stroke, i can't imagine how arduous this is. >> he mentioned thomas eagleton, and walter mondale said he

regretted asking him to step down. i guess there has been a change, but i can only imagine also how difficult it is to say i need help or to say i've gone to get help. just, again, given your experience as someone who has been in the public eye, your observations? >> well, the first thing i say is that we should all remember that thomas eagleton then served a couple more terms in the u.s. senate and was hugely impactful after that happened, so certainly in this scenario, i think that's something to be remembered. the second thing i'd say is that in my experience has been that what senator fetterman is going to experience is this, one, he's going to get better. we're very good at treating all sorts of kinds of mental health challenges now. i am not a clinician, i'm not going to speak what i think is going on. all i can say is if someone undergoes a stroke and goes through a campaign and doesn't have the opportunity to deal with the trauma that is that

stroke, like at some point you're going to need to get help, and the fact that he's chosen to do this means just like his doctors have said publicly, he's going to be back to feeling like himself, and then what he's going to experience is this, everyone he encounters and this is true whether you're a politician or a public person or not, is going to initially treat him as if he's made of glass, right? he's going to be regarded through this lens for a while, and then eventually people will move past it. they'll see him doing his job ask he'll be able to function fully. what i think this leaves me with -- because look, because of my own experience, i'm kind of the person that, you know, senator fetterman is not one of them, but there are a lot of people who are in politics who call me when they think they might be having a problem, and i have a lot of these lot of these conversations. what i have learned is whether it's people in politics, people walking around the street in the united states of america right now, half the people you meet at a minimum are going through some stuff. if you talk about people in power, in political life, corporate life, it doesn't

matter, i would rather it be people who have dealt with their stuff as opposed to people who are suppressing their stuff and pretending it's not there. i think people who have dealt with their stuff are in a better position to make decisions. >> maybe somewhere in there is also the lesson, because his aide, john fetterman's aide did say he had to sort of escalate his recovery after he had his stroke in many ways because he was running for senate, and, you know, he wanted to be able to respond to questions. he sat down with one of our reporters for an interview. what do people need to know about the stresses of life today, post-covid life and the importance of having the time to be able to deal with them when they seem to be overwhelming? >> i think you just hit the nail on it. the fact is that senator fetterman has time and help available to take care of his mental health. as psychiatrists, i'm really happy to see that, but as a

psychiatrist who's worked on the hill, i know how many people don't have access to mental health coverage, and i feel like i'm glad we're talking about this, but what are we doing about it? again, he can go get help. he can take that time off. what do you say to my patients who are waiting for a week in an er just to get admitted because there's not enough hospital staffing. what do you say to my patients who are moms that can't get out of the bed, not law school students who need adderall, but the moms who can't get out of bed. and what do you say to the black queer female people who e-mail me all the time looking for a provider. perhaps, again, if mental health coverage was provided on par with physical health, i wouldn't be so responsible for answering these e-mails and all of the fettermans and non-fettermans would be able to get help and take time off, especially since we are approaching an epidemic

of mental health issues. >> i wish we could talk more. thank you for being with us. i need to go to the white house now, and john kirby is answering questions about those flying objects. let's take a listen. to bring up human rights concern and when he met with president xi in bali, he brought it up then, and it's not just with president xi, the president believes that you have to lead with your values, particularly in foreign policy. he's never shy about bringing that up. >> john, what's the likelihood that president biden meets with president zelenskyy next week? >> there's no meeting. you talking about on the trip? there's no meeting with president zelenskyy scheduled for the trip right now. >> reporter: and related to president xi in a call with president biden as well, have tensions cooled enough to where the two leaders can jump on the phone together right now? >> there is an open line of communication.

and i'm not denying that there aren't still tensions, particularly in the wake of the spy balloon. we don't believe it's the appropriate time right now for secretary blinken to travel to beijing, and you heard the president that he will -- he will want to have another conversation with president xi, as you might expect that he would. but we don't have anything on the scheduled right now, and we'll have to do that at the time when the president believes it's appropriate. what's really important here, and i know the question was about president biden and president xi is that the lines of communication with the prc remain open. i recognize that there are tensions, but secretary blinken has an open line of communication with the foreign minister. we still have an embassy in beijing with a terrific ambassador, nick burns, and the state department also can communicate directly with prcs embassy personnel here. so the lines are open. unfortunately, the military lines aren't open, and that's really what we would like to see amended, and it was, of course,

curtailed after speaker pelosi stripped to taiwan. >> is that a pre-condition for a call? >> there's no preconditions for a call. the president will want to have a conversation with president xi at the appropriate time. >> thank you. thanks, kirby. a quick one on the president's trip to poland, is he going to be making a stop anywhere other than warsaw? >> right now, the trip is going to be in warsaw. >> reporter: before the chinese spy balloon incident led to a fine tuning of radar, how was the administration tracking these flying objects, if at all? >> let me go back, and answer the first question. the triple will be in warsaw. i didn't want to make it sound like i was alluding to a change to it, and your second question was how were we tracking these before? >> correct. because the reason why you were able to detect and shoot down these three objects, the president said yesterday was because --

>> what were you doing before, if anything, to track aerial objects? >> the commander of norad, general spoke to us last week, and the way he characterized it was that they were -- they were attuned to look for -- defaulted to look for other types of threats in our airspace, fast moving, lower altitude, more kinetic potential threats, such as ballistic or cruise missiles or bomber fighter aircraft. that's what their focus was, that they had not -- they had not adjusted the, as he called it, gates on the radar, the filters, to look for things that were much higher, much slower, and a smaller radar cross section, harder to see. so as we said the other day, when you adjust for that, you're likely to see more of what you're asking the radar to look for.

but it just wasn't set for that. he was focused on other types of threats, more kinetic threats or potential kinetic threats in our airspace. >> it sound like, you know, yesterday the president said that he wanted to work to establish a better inventory of unmanned airborne objects, does that mean currently there is no inventory? >> i wouldn't say there's none, but i think it's fair to say that he wants us to focus a little bit more on this particular issue and learn more about what's out there, what's up there, quite frankly. >> got it. and how long do you think it would take to implement this four-step plan, and what will you do in the meantime? is the policy to shoot them down before you implement these four things the president wants? >> no, i think you can imagine even though we're still working on the policy parameters that we're going to continue to follow a very deliberate, thoughtful decision making process here should there be

another track, there aren't right now. i can't give you a time line specific to the calendar about when we'll will be done this work. it won't take very long. in a matter of days, we'll transmit to congress the classified parameters, we're working out through the inter-agency right now, and get those to the hill within days, i think. and then we'll be executing on it. so there's not -- i don't want to leave you with the impression that there's an air gap between him wanting these parameters written, and us being able to execute on them. >> how long do you think it will take? >> we're already in many ways using some of those parameters just informally, as we're looking at the skies. again, there's no active tracks right now. so i think it will just be -- we'll transmit these parameters with incoming days. it won't be very long, and it's not like it's, you know, going to be sent to be debated on or voted on. it's going to be our parameters.

parameters defined by the national security council team and the inter-agency on how we're going to deal with this. >> thank you. >> so on the trip to poland, polls show america, there's concerns about going along with more support for ukraine. how does the president try to square that with his message of support on the trip, and is his audience, when you consider to be a domestic audience back home or is his audience russia or countries in eastern europe. >> the president well knows whenever he speaks, he's speaking to people all around the world, as well as of course the american people. i think you'll hear messages in the president's speech that will certainly resonate with the american people, certainly resonate with our allies and partners. without question, resonate with the polish people who have done so much and continue to do so. and i would suspect that you'll hear him messaging mr. putin as well, as well as the russian people. i want to go back to your first question. it almost assumes as if support

is going to wane or waiver or dwindle. and that's just not how the president sees it. yes, there are a small number of members on capitol hill, house republicans specifically, tha have expressed publicly their concerns about support for ukraine. if you talk to the house leadership, you won't hear that, and you're certainly not going to hear it on the democratic side, and you don't want to hear it in the senate. there has been terrific bipartisan support through the entire years. think about what we have done over this year. all of this has been done in full consultation and coordination with congress. there's no such thing as a blank check. we're all doing it together. and the support from congress has really been extraordinary and the president looks forward to that support continuing. >> thank you very much. is the president prepared to send u.s. fighter jets to ukraine? >> we talked about this. i think the president got asked this question, and he spoke to it. i don't have anything to add from what the president said. i'll tell you we