to lose weight, but with golo, it wasn't. the weight just fell off. i have people come up to me all the time and ask me, "does it really work?" and all i have to say is, "here i am. it works." my advice for everyone is to go with golo. it will release your fat and it will release you. hi there, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york on a friday. really crazy stuff. that is how the head of the fox news empire when rupert murdoch describes the lies being beamed into the homes of millions of americans every single day by his network in the wake of the 2020 election. an extraordinary new filing by dominion voting systems, the voting machine company that was the target of baseless

conspiracies by the ex-president and his allies including in the media. in its $1.6 billion defamation case pierces the hermetically sealed bubble that is fox news. the network that drives the conversation and conduct in the republican party and on the right like none other. it shows that hosts on fox news either peddled the big lie that the 2020 election was stolen from trump or gave the platform for people to spread the big lie that the election was stolen from trump for one reason and one reason only, fear, terror really of losing viewers and tumbling stock prices and viewers migrating to more radical outlets. messages and emails obtained by dominion along with testimony from fox news employees and hosts reveals that it was well known and bantered about inside fox news that the vote fraud conspiracies were as rupert murdoch put it terrible stuff, damaging everybody. and that it was, quote, very

hard to credibly claim foul. claim foul, they did and panic over viewers turning in to rival newsmax led to a dominion calls a war footing caring more about protecting its own falling viewership than about the truth. fox news hosts and staffers have perhaps the harshest words to say privately about trump attorney sidney powell. she was at the forefront of the most outlandish voter fraud claims. laura ingraham said of her, she was a complete nut. tucker carlson called her a, quote, lunatic. sean hannity testified that, quote, that whole narrative that sidney powell was pushing, i did 23409 believe it for one second. well, here's his longer than one second interview with one sidney powell from november 30th. >> we've got evidence of corruption all across the country and countless districts. the machine ran an algorithm that shaved votes from trump and awarded them to biden.

they used the machines to trash large batches of votes that should have been awarded to president trump and they used the machine to inject and add massive quantities of votes for mr. biden. >> again, it's a guest on a show who they all thought was a lunatic. every assertion she makes there was a lie and everybody at fox news knew it. according to dominion like lindell, the pillow guy and tucker carlson's top advertiser by the way was making the very same claims. but here he is on tucker carlson's show on january 26th, 20 days after the deadly capitol insurrection and as dominion reveals two months after carlson wrote privately that donald trump needed to concede the election and that there was no fraud on a scale to sway the 2020 election. watch. >> this particular thing going on now i've been all in trying to find the machine fraud and we found it. we have all the evidence.

>> in a statement foulkes news has this to say for itself, quote, dominion has mischaracterized the record, cherry-picked quotes stripped of see con tech and spilled considerable ink on facts that are irdevelop rant under black-letter defamation law not addressing the main thrust of what dominion's lawsuit is about, from the filing, quote, fox knew from the top down, fox knew that dominion stuff was total bs, the consequences to dominion and to democracy did not matter and not for nothing we're still living with the consequences of the lies broadcast by fox news to millions of their viewers. millions of people still believe the election was stolen from people that they described as lunatics. our politics is now roiled by questions of accountable for the worst attack on the united states capitol in centuries, an attack spurred by false vote fraud conspiracies that aired across right wing media including on fox. >> we need to find out what

happened in this month's presidential election. >> u.s. demands -- >> the state of play in america in 200 for republicans is not good. we need to fight back. >> that's what we're doing, fighting back. >> it's a story of election fraud. elections rigged to deny the will of the majority in this country. >> taking our freedoms, locking us down and turning this country into a socialist republic and that is not right. >> direct line there. stunning revelations and epic filing about the spread of the big lie on fox news and what they really thought about it as it was happening. that's where we start today, nick is here, an investigator reporter, also an msnbc political analyst. also joining us david, media correspondent for npr news here at the table we're so happy to be joined by attorney and legal analyst katie phang, also host of the katie phang show on msnbc starting at a new time tomorrow,

saturday. saturdays and sundays at 8:00 and basil is back, director of the public policy. it was one of the things you read. i don't know how you read the paper. i like to share. when i get secret i snap a picture or send it to my team or read it out loud. i read this whole thing like that. i was gob smacked and i wonder, nick, if you could start with, we have plenty of time so take me through what stood out to you. >> well, look, the overall picture here which i think is really fascinating, it's an inside look at what the top people at fox, the primetime hosts, the executives, the murdochs, suzanne scott were thinking and saying about these allegations in the moment. when viewers were angry and wishing president trump had won re-election and their politicaling reporting staff were trying to tell their

viewers, no, he did not and what you see in these texts is essentially a network that is afraid of its own audience. afraid to tell them the truth and extremely conscious of the trade-off that if their network tells the truth about what happened that they will lose viewers and the one that really jumped out to me, i got to tell you was the three-way group chat with the prime time host tucker carlson, sean hannity and laura ingraham talking about trying to get a white house reporter for fox fired, this was carlson's text, to call suzanne scott and get her fired for the crime of tweeting a link to a report from the trump administration itself saying that the controlling machines had not been tampered with, they wanted her fired for that? why? because the stock price was going down. which makes me wonder how much these people are paid in corporate stock for their compensation, by the way, but that was the essential thing, the stock price is going down, fire her for telling the truth.

>> yeah, i'm going to read that. i have that part of the filing but i just want to for folks at home that don't know all these people, rupert murdoch obviously sits at the top, suzanne scott sits atop fox news. tucker carlson, laura ingraham and sean hannity are the prime anchors in question here. and the lawsuit names names and brings receipts for everyone that i've mentioned all the way down to the decision desk, the fact checkers and the fact checking department. i'm going to read, nick, that section from the filing that you just talked about. in their group text thread, this is hannity, ingraham and tucker carlson, tucker carlson pointed hannity to a tweet by fox reporter jacqui heinrich who was fact checking dominion and mentioned hannity's show and correctly fact-checked the tweet

pointing out that top election infrastructure officials said that, there is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost vote, changed votes or was in any way compromised. tucker carlson told hannity, quote, please get her fired. seriously, what the "f." i'm actually shocked. it needs to stop immediately. it needs to stop immediately. like tonight. it's measurably hurting the company. the stock price is down. not a joke. so, nick, importantly, what does happen? i mean what does happen is all these people they describe as lunatics floodwater their airwaves and make an aggressive grab to grab viewers back from newsmax. >> on certain shows first, maria bartiromo and lou dobbs you saw a huge poe meigs of conspiracy theories of sidney powell and later mike lindell on tucker carlson's show after sidney powell and you saw them lean away from their own reporting, their own news side and start to lean into and it got more into

the news coverage of fox as well and started to promote the idea more and more that trump had won, that there was something wrong, that dead people voted and machines were compromised, all these theories to get their own viewers off the hook for feeling bad about losing, about trump losing. and what happens after that is actually more important look in a story i did last year, i reported that, you know, around november a message was delivered by murdoch to suzanne scott, clean house. what happened after that, chris, a high ranking politics editor was fired. the washington bureau chief was forcibly retired. and they replaced those people with more pliable people. and from then on it was pretty clear what the direction of the network was going to be and we saw that on january 6th. we saw in the aftermath of that when these hosts especially carlson spent a huge amount of time and air time essentially defending people, their viewers,

for, you know, believing in the conspiracy theories that they knew to be false but which had powered the assault on the capitol and that's the most tragic thing of all. >> you know, david, it is, i think, an historic infusion of understanding into how the most powerful people at fox news think. and i too was struck by -- i mean with a gun to my head i would have no idea what this company's stock price is on any day and aware more of the ratings but the notion that anybody would make a programming decision was -- it was revelatory to me. i want to read more of sean hannity's business concerns about the outcome of the election. from hannity, in one week in one debate they destroyed a brand that took 25 years to build and damage is incalculable. serious money with serious distribution could be a real problem. in my honest opinion they need to address it but wtf do i know. from tucker carlson to a

producer, to the executives understand how much credibility and trust we've lost with our audience. asker we playing with fire. an alternative like newsmax could be devastating. from arena, an executive our viewers left this week after arizona, from porter barry, an executive, email to ratings analyst, just pulled up newsmax's show and they're hitting cavuto. they're whacking us. it's smart on their part. just to come back down to planet earth for a second, our viewers left after arizona. joe biden won. fox didn't do anything. the attachment to the delusion is part. the big headline out of this. the attachment to the lie because their viewers can't handle the truth because they condition them to believe the lie and unawareness of their role in that vicious cycle is staggering. >> i think in a sense they may well be aware and yet that isn't the problem or point.

they have to embrace what their viewers want to hear. credibility and trust and most news organizations, most outfits that have the word news, credibility and trust is inherent in the idea that you're providing authenticated reliable information to the public that is meaningful to them and in this case the information was the opposite. it was the opposite of reliable, in fact, it was inherently unreliable and identified as such instantaneously by the people whose shows and network was pushing it out most prominently to the public, right? and so what we see here is the talk of grand, the idea this relationship with the audience, what you're not hearing is except with very faint glimmers here and there is the idea you have an obligation to the audience and obligation to the facts and truth and fairness and, yes, there are opinions to offer and takes to have but in reality you're saying that joe biden won arizona and you're saying that joe biden won these other swing states and that the

election was won by joe biden, you have to find a way to reconcile those facts with your audience and they simply didn't want to have to do it. you saw rupert murdoch, the founder of fox news, the boss at the top saying at times, you know, is there a way we could get sean hannity, laura ingraham and tucker carlson together to acknowledge that trump lost this as a way of getting our viewers through this and suzanne scott, the chief executive of fox news as portrayed in these legal filings from dominion says we're not going to do it that way but we'll find ways to, you know, they're almost there. they're there privately, publicly not so much and rupert says at one point, it's all very well for sean hannity to say this privately to you, what is he telling his viewers? and yet dominion would say even if rupert murdoch, a nonagenarian is doing this, he's also not intervening to make

sure it gets done so a question that our legal colleagues can address in some ways but from a journalistic standpoint you're not seeing any adherence to any commonly held notices of where you find fact and truth and credibility. >> there's an important marker here. i was -- i can't remember -- i think i was still a republican, obviously i had worked on the mccain campaign in '08 when after the election, fox news didn't challenge the results of president obama's victory. they started challenging the entire agenda. what is represented here is a real, you know, lowering of the discourse to not accepting the results of an election and not having the courage or the backbone or the confidence in the entire network to deliver an accurate result of a national presidential election. where do we go from there? >> well, i mean you saw the chief executive of fox lash out

privately in communications with colleagues about sill salmon, the washington managing editor of fox news for being part of the team that projected before any other news network that joe biden would win arizona and from there the guy was kind of cast with the trump campaign as they knew on election night and said she's doing terrible damage here. you know, tucker carlson called it vandalism. what he did was make the best call he could to inform his viewers, their audience of the facts as they were playing out. the chief executive of the network was outraged by this. it tells you something about the dissonance of it. they had reporters, eric shawn and others were saying in realtime, look, let me offer you the evidence that disproves a lot of these conspiracy theories as they're even unspooling on the air. fox news journalists were trying hard to do that. neil cavuto pulled away from a briefing at the white house then

white house spokeswoman that was offering baseless allegations of voter fraud because he said this hasn't been substantiated we can't rely on it. we can come back to it. he was excoriated. he has been there for a million years, pretty much from the outset. he's a pillar of that network. for him to be trashed for basically saying i want to make sure we're providing our viewers with reliable information tells you about the point at which fox found it several. >> it also, katie phang, shows you, i think the right does a good job at painting, you know, the trump derangement syndrome as taking hold of the left. they viewed it exactly as we viewed it. here's neil pulling away from kayleigh mcenany. >> we want every legal vote to be counted and we want every illegal vote -- >> whoa. i just think we have to be very clear she's charging the other side of welcoming fraud and welcoming illegal voting. unless she has more details to back that up i can't in good

countenance continue showing you that. maybe they do have something to back it up but that's ang explosive charge to make that the other side is effectively rigging and cheating. >> so i was on the air, neil is on at the same time as i'm on, my network neighbor, i guess on at 4:00 and heard about it immediately. we put that on this network because i think it was important as a country to show that from the right to the left everybody understood the outcome of an american election. what is clear is that the management from the top down was part of dismantling the american people's trust in the outcome of an election, fox news called. >> what was clear is somebody like neil cavuto was an outlier at fox, right? there was a time when i and i'll speak personally thought someone like maria bartiromo had jumped the shark. but what have we seen? we've seen through the text messages through this process and civil litigation the honest truth which is they knew it was not a rigged and stolen election

but because money and because stock and because viewership counted so much to them they wanted to direct and drive narrative that was false to its viewers. as a lawyer, what's really critical about this procedural stage of where we are in this litigation is that what we saw in this 192-page filing was something that was filed by dominion in support of their motion for summary judgment. and for nonlawyers basically what dominion is telling the court is we've done the discovery, we've taken the depos. we've gotten these text messages among other thing, there is literally nothing a jury has to decide anymore, judge. there are no genuine issues of material fact that a juror needs to decide because on the law and based pong the facts as applied to the law, it is squarely in our corner. but what's also really important to consider, again, procedurally in terms of the time line of this litigation, fox tried at the very beginning of this case to dismiss the claims against them, claiming there was no

actual malice and the judge in this case in his order said, proof of actual malice calls a defendant's state of mind into question and does not readily lend itself to summary disposition. that's at the very beginning of the case before none of this discovery comes out. and so now that you've had all of this discovery and you've seen that they all knew it wasn't true, what's really important about the law is what dominion argues, it says, yet fox despite knowing the truth or at a minimum recklessly disregarding that truth fox spread and endorsed outlandish voter fraud claims about dominion even as it internally recognized the lies as shocking and reckless. it's so hard to defeat a first amend defense when claiming defamation yet this is a rare case where it is so obvious on its face that fox knew what it was putting on the air was false or it recklessly chose to put something on the air that was false. this never happens but why is fox defending this? normally you would see a settlement or something happen before we get to this stage

before rupert murdoch sits for a depo. it's because dominion is claiming $1.6 billion in damages yet the irony, you hit them where it hurts the most with civil litigation, their pocketbook, their bottom line dollars yet ironically that's what fox did. they cared so much about the bottom line dollar that they found themselves in the hot seat now because of that. >> what's amazing too and i want to read this, i want to get both of your opinions on this. there's something in the filing that we never knew before. on january 6th, as the insurrection, sort of the flames and the blood is not yet dry, let me read this. the afternoon of january 6th after the capitol came under attack then president trump dialed into lou dobbs' show attempting to get on the air. but fox executives vetoed that decision. why? not because of a lack of newsworthness, january 6 was an important event by any measure.

he was the key figure of the day but fox news refused to allow trump on the air that evening because, quote, it would be irresponsible to put him on the air and, quote, could impact a lot of people in a negative way. okay, wow, trump was a danger to the country. i think it's liz cheney who articulated that over and over again he lit the match, he struck the match and he let it burn. fox news would agree. >> yeah, you know what, all of this is incredibly galling because i spent my entire career to try to get people to trust the system and when i come back to the story over and over again all i think about is the fact that here is a network clearly motivated by ratings and money, talking about a voting system, some -- at the most basic point in our democracy your ability to cast a vote and have that vote count, so at the heart of this

desire to push this lie and to energize and motivate a base to go out and act upon it is the very thing that scares me about the future that you had this incredible platform, they had this incredible platform to promote the lie, they did so and weren't caring or -- and had no concern over the guardrails that are basic to the work that we do. >> well, and i think the other thing is they drew these arbitrary lines around their own morality so sidney powell who they all described as a lunatic, crazy and a nut job and i think that's hannity, carlson, ingraham in order, they view donald trump as too dangerous to put on the air. >> but he's not too danger -- even if they're concerned about putting him on the air they don't have putting on anything he cares about on the air so it doesn't matter to me if they say i don't want to put him on

because if you're still going to take what he gives you, if you're going to take what he feeds you day in and day out and then push that back to the american people, how good are you in this process? what benefit do you have to this process to this dynamic to our democracy if we can't even count on you to report an election outcome accurately? >> you called accurate. >> that's why nick's comment and i wrote it down, afraid of their own audience. when we think about fear, they're afraid of their own audience. doing what they did is not courage. what is courage is being an elected official and getting your life threatened and the life 6 your family day in and day out because you're doing your job and doing it with the public's interest in mind. none of that was happening here. >> we have to sneak in a break. this, again, we didn't know this before. it doesn't show up anywhere on the january 6th committee report. if you're jack smith do you want to understand why fox news said

it was too quote to put trump on the air waves? >> absolutely. it's the intertwiing of all investigations and cases that have evidentiary value even if you're jack smith, you're going to want to know why they had a fear about putting donald trump on but to basil's point they didn't have a problem putting his surrogates on. that's the idea of january 6th. it wasn't donald trump that was storming the capitol. it was his surrogates, it was the people that he -- >> he wanted to be there. >> yeah, we know he wanted to be there and we know what he did in the beast in order to get there. but, of course, jack smith's going to want to know why they thought it was such a threat but we all know it was a lie. we all know it was a lie. you'll notice that all in all of these filings fox never says it's a lie. fox says never those messages are untrue. they just say i have a first amendment right, how ironic they say that the first amendment protects them and allows them to do this but it isn't just

newsworthy. it's a lie and if it's a lie you should have to face the punishment for what you've done. >> no one is going anywhere. there's so much more. more on this incredible never before understood trove of evidence of the mindset inside fox news and a reminder that those lies and that drive always toward the bottom line of everything else is by no means a victimless crime. plus, from the lies fox told to those who acted on the lies broadcast on fox news, the proud boys, their seditious conspiracy trial continues through the right wing militia members on the stand, someone they see as responsible for pushing them and directing them to rite at the capitol. later in the show, officer harry dunn is our guest. he repeatedly has called for accountability for the january 6th insurrection. we'll get his reaction to lies knowingly spread to millions of people who would go on to hurt

him and some of his colleagues. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. a lot of new dry eye patients in my office tell me about their frequent dry eyes, which may point to dry eye disease. millions of americans were estimated to have it. they also tell me they've tried artificial tears again and again, but the relief is temporary. xiidra can provide lasting relief. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied and unusual taste sensation.

why wait? ask your eye doctor about a 90-day prescription for xiidra today. good luck. td ameritrade, this is anna. hi anna, this position is all over the place, help! hey professor, subscriptions are down but that's only an estimated 15% of their valuation. do you think the market is overreacting? how'd you know that? the company profile tool, in thinkorswim®. yes, i love you!! please ignore that. td ameritrade. award-winning customer service that has your back. it's official, america. xfinity mobile is the fastest mobile service. and gives you unmatched savings with the best price for two lines of unlimited. only $30 a line per month. the fastest mobile service and major savings? can't argue with the facts. no wonder xfinity mobile is one of the fastest growing mobile services, now with over 5 million customers and counting. save hundreds a year over t-mobile, at&t and verizon.

talk to our switch squad at your local xfinity store today. what causes a curve down there? can it be treated? stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie's disease, or pd. and it could be treated without surgery. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. there are some things that go better...together. burger and fries...soup and salad. like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. with voya, considering all your financial choices together

can help you make smarter decisions. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. you guys are not tough enough or maybe i put it another way, you're a bunch of -- >> when truth isn't truth. it's important to me. it's important to all the people whose families have been impacted by this. anderson, my kids still are not allowed to get any package from the front door until we verify that it's actually from a trusted sender. this is something that continues to happen every single day for us. last friday, we had an office on lockdown. two days prior to that i was on a phone call with one of our employees who's a mother of two,

very upset and crying. it's hard to talk about. >> had something been said to her personally? >> a very disgusting death threat in detail. >> these are the times in which we live. they're not supposed to extend to employees of a private company that did nothing it was accused of doing. that was the ceo of dominion voting systems back in october on "60 minutes" on the harm that these lies and conspiracies spread by the ex-president and his allies in the media including fox news did to these employees, his company and his own family. we're back with nick, david, katie and basil. nick, i remember when i first saw that and it was about the ceo talking about his employee and his kids and then the first amendment lawyer in the same interview who says, this is the strongest defamation case i've ever seen and anderson says how

many have you seen? and he said, hundreds. what do you think of the fact that dominion and i've talked over the years, last two years to some folks involved in some of this. they have understood the facts to be on their side from the beginning and now that we're seeing the first glimpse of what those facts are, it certainly seems to be the case. >> i mean, look, i think reporters should be able to make mistakes in good faith and correct them. that's going to happen. it's going to happen at the place where i work. it's going to happen here in msnbc. that's part of having a good media. what this case has shown, though, i think it's a good system, by the way, what this case has shown is a network from top to bottom whose most important people understood that they are repeating things that they knew were wrong that they themselves mocked as ridiculous and presenting it to the viewers as fact over and over and over again. over and over again.

and that is he have different from making a mistake and correcting it from operating in good faith. this is operating in terrible bad faith. and it's a sacred trust. you have an obligation to offer your viewers the best version of the truth you can. i'm petrified of making one mistake in a story. the idea of airing countless broadcasts with a conspiracy theory you all knew was wrong is crazy to me to watch it behind the scenes like that, to see all the facts and the lawsuit come down in this way, i'm not a lawyer. i can't say how much stronger it makes the case against them, but it's very different from cases of defamation i have observed as a reporter where there's a good faith effort that's still a bad error but it's contradicted, it's fixed. this is very different. >> katie, you are a lawyer. let me read one more piece from the filing and then let you loose on all of it. this is from the filing about the number of times dominion

contacted fox news. say they didn't have the facts. we know from this filing they were provided with the facts, 3,600 time, quote, fox admits sidney powell and her team never provided fox with any evidence. dominion, by contrast made over 3,600 separate communications to fox with at least a dozen separate and widely circulated fact check emails each pointing to verifiable third-party information debunking the claims. fox's research department itself along with multiple fox employees debunked these claims in realtime. no credible evidence ever existed for these, quote, absurd allegations against dominion. fox witness after fox witness has admitted as much. consistent with every single reputable third party and stacks of public record documents so it's not a story that they were fighting about amongst themselves and the powerful prime people prevailed because of their ratings numbers. it's a story that everybody, again, from rupert to scott to

the three most watched primetime anchors knew as bs. >> to the production assistants, to the fact checkers. >> reporters. >> all the way down to the reporters. everybody knew it was a lie and to nick's point, there is no available defense to fox, oops, i got it wrong. if you are told repeatedly and dominion makes it clear, once it was said and it was a lie and it was fraudulently broadcast, dominion said at least 19 times after it aired the lies aired soy what's the good faith basis? is it i corrected it. i made a mistake? i mean, there is nothing there and dominion also makes its clear there is no available affirmative defenses in the law and affirmative defenses, yes, i did it but -- yes, i ran over the dog but, dot, dot, dot. there is no available defense. they can't possibly say, well, i was broadcasting as the host or talent but i relied upon what my

production assistant told me or my writers. no, they all knew and it's this honesty and transparency among the talent, production, amongst the owners of this company that is startling. that's the galling reality of what it is. it's not some person who went rogue. they just went rogue off the reservation and ran with the sidney powell interview and everybody said shut it down. that didn't happen. they all ran with it. those that chose to honor it like the bret baiers and neil cavuto s were punished. there is no shame. but if -- >> rupert murdoch and suzanne scott do nothing as brett and neil cavuto were shamed by the other hosts. let me show you what happened on tucker carlson's show yesterday. >> good evening, and welcome to tucker carlson tonight. we haven't taken a poll, but

it's possible on this thursday evening you may be wondering what the hell is going on in our country. there are so many unanswered questions. some of them linnering. how, for example, did senile permit joe biden get 15 million more votes than his former boss, rock star crowd surfer barack obama? results like that would seem to defy the laws of known physics and qualify as a miracle. was the 2020 election a miracle? honestly we don't know and don't expect to get an answer to it tonight. >> they're still peddling. don't mention dominion because they're being sued for billions but still peddling the lie. >> it suits them clearly it is a financial motive to do it to keep their viewers and something you mentioned made me think about this. you know, it's not as though every host on that show is just reading. they're not ron burgundy. it's not ron burgundy just saying, oh, my god, i can't believe what i just said and somebody calling them out for it in realtime and when we talked

about the big lie initially, i always said, it is a big conspiracy, it's not a lie because it takes an amazing number of people to consistently push this information out there and to have so many others act upon it, it takes resources, it takes message discipline and we see that that discipline was inherent in what fox news was promoting day in and day out. i joke about it but it really is not a joke because there are some extraordinarily powerful people at the helm. >> david, most things aren't conspiracies for a couple of reasons. one is conspiracies are complicated and difficult and most people accused of carrying them out are incompetent. this appears to have been one such conspiracy where the bottom line concerns of the most powerful network on the right, the maniacal political ambitions of the most powerful person in our country and an all too

willing republican party who looked the other way as he cried in his cheeseburgers for eight weeks allowed for questions to seep in. how has that changed the media landscape forever. >> well, i think if you look at this it's hard to say that there's any real separation despite the presence at fox of some real journalists and people would care about this stuff there's any real separation between republicanism, surplusism and fox news and the fox empire. what you have here, rupert murdoch essentially occasionally makes noises about i think saying to his chief executive suzanne scott, maybe we should focus more on winning the senate race, not the ratings, we should win them for republicans there. he doesn't feel that focusing on trump is useful. that is not a journalistic imperative. it gave itself an establishment and more traditional and broader based creditability but the way in which it has behaved in

recent years is really anything but. i mean, i think, katie, you heard her answer her own question about the question of why hasn't there been a settlement? there might have been one that murdoch and fox would have done well to head off at the pass or this week's filings which are deeply damaging. but fox might not only have an enormous paycheck to stop this from going to trial and rolling the dice with a jury but also that as a term of the settlement have to go before its viewers and say, we were wrong to tell you this stuff time and time again and probably have to say you were wrong by implication to believe it and i think that's one that you're seeing people really wrestle with inside fox. it's not so easy to apologize if what you're trying to do is saying not only did we break faith with you. what the hell were you doing believing what we said as we took you along for this ride. >> you get the last word. >> the opportunity for news and

opinion to live and co-exist peacefully, it's there. you can do it. you can do it effectively but you got to have the integrity to be able to do it. if you're not going to give the news then don't use the news moniker. say i am just an opinion channel. i'm only going to give you opinion and opinion only. the complete manipulation was knowingly done by fox news, its personalities and its owners, by the right. we have text messages from steve bannon of all people to maria bartiromo. not just internal text messages between the talent, you got steve bannon who we know was one of the primary architects of not only the creation of donald trump but the presidency as well as the insurrection and he says, 71 million voters will never accept biden. this process is to destroy his presidency before it starts. we either close on trump's victory or delegitimize biden,

the plan. there was a plan. it was a grand scheme to defraud and they defrauded american viewers but they didn't defraud american voters because biden won and trump lost. >> wow. nick confessore, dave folkenflik, you were two of the first people we thought of to talk to. thank you for making so much time for us. katie and basil, stick around. we remember when the ex-president called on a right wing militia group to stand by. well now the same group is calling on donald trump, the latest in the proud boys' seditious conspiracy trial is next.

i've got moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪things are getting clearer.♪ ♪i feel free to bare my skin yeah, that's all me♪ ♪nothing and me go hand in hand♪ ♪nothing on my skin♪ ♪that's my new plan♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ achieve clearer skin with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 4 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪i see nothing in a different way♪ ♪it's my moment so i just gotta say♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to.

♪nothing is everything♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. with unitedhealthcare my sister has a whole team to help her get the most out of her medicare plan. ♪wow, uh-huh♪ advantage: me! can't wait 'til i turn 65! take advantage with an aarp medicare advantage plan... only from unitedhealthcare. - life is uncertain.

everyday pressures can feel overwhelming it's okay to feel stressed, anxious, worried, or frustrated. it's normal. with calhope's free and secure mental health resources, it's easy to get the help you and your loved ones need when you need it the most. call our warm line at (833) 317-4673 or live chat at calhope.org today.

what do you want to call them? >> proud boys. >> proud boy, stand back and stand by but i'll tell you what, i'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about antifa. >> he is such a preposterous figure. i'm sorry for that but it was important and played it here before because it turns out everything we know now, it was a direct line call to action in the lead-up to the january 6th insurrection. also why it's been invoked frequently in the proud boys' seditious conspiracy trial as the motivation for their violence that day. and that's why now lawyers for the proud boys plan to subpoena

him, the twice impeached ex-president himself who some proud boys members say should be on trial instead of them. one of their lawyers argues this, quote, donald trump called on patriots to stop the steal. we're calling on donald trump to take the stand. it is a long shot but fascinating effort. they intend to ask the u.s. department of justice for help in forcing, compelling trump's testimony. the lawyers argue according to "the washington post" reporting on this, quote, at all times relevant trump was president of the united states and it is the government's obligation to produce him. joining us now former fbi counterintelligence agent pete strzok. what do you think? >> look, the proud boys are trying to demonstrate they believe or an argument they have was they were acting at the behest of donald trump and that when he called on them to act it was because he thought the vote had been stolen and that, therefore, their intent was not -- they were not the

causation of the violence, they were merely responding to what they thought was a lawful direction by the president. i think that's nonsense but what it absolutely puts donald trump in the position of having to decide is whether or not he wants to get up on the stand and either say on one hand, yes, i did ask them or direct them or intend for them to do it or, no, i didn't or third option he may take the fifth because a lot of what he did or intended to do is directly relevant to the things that jack smith and the department of justice are looking at. it's an interesting scenario, earlier attempts by other january 6th defendants to try to call on president trump have been denied but i think in this case because as your clip demonstrated donald trump specifically referred to the proud boys, it's got a stronger argument than some of these earlier requests, so we will see what happens. >> one of the reasons the proud boys are able to make this argument and make these legal moves is because donald trump, even in the eyes of the proud boys and their lawyers, seemingly has not been held accountable for inciting the

riot and summoning the proud boys and lighting the match and stoking the violence and wanting to join the violence and saying mike pence deserves it. what do you think is going on behind closed doors in the special counsel's office? >> well, i think certainly, nicolle, they're trying to draw a broad picture of everything that trump did. this was not -- these were not individual events in the forms of the fake elector slate of him bringing people to d.c. on january 6th. of him riling up the crowd and trying to bring them up to the capitol, of his interactions with intermediaries, the special counsel office is trying to take a look at the big picture and say all of these things happened in coordination with one another. all of these things including the calls down to georgia, including the activity -- these are all part of a broad campaign to unlawfully maintain power in an election that donald trump knew he lost. and so you can take these individual pieces but if you're looking at the broad theory of the case, the broad theory of the case is donald trump knew he

lost. donald trump again and again and again engaged in illegal activity to block the peaceful transition of power so i think that's what they're trying to do at the special counsel's office. >> all right, no one is going anywhere. we have to sneak in a quick break and get kate and basil in on the conversation on the other side. don't go anywhere. when it comes to reducing sugar in your family's diet, the more choices, the better. that's why america's beverage companies are working together to deliver more great tasting options with less sugar or no sugar at all. in fact, today, nearly 60% of beverages sold contain zero sugar.

different sizes? check. clear calorie labels? just check. with so many options, it's easier than ever to find the balance that's right for you. more choices. less sugar. balanceus.org ♪ this feels so right... ♪ adt systems now feature google products like the nest cam with floodlight, with intelligent alerts when a person or familiar face is detected. sam. sophie's not here tonight. so you have a home with no worries. brought to you by adt. ♪♪ giorgio, look! the peanut butter box is here. ralph, that's the chewy pharmacy box with our flea and tick meds. it's not peanut butter. ♪ the peanut butter box is here ♪ i'm out. pet prescriptions delivered to your door. chewy.

get ready to say those five little words. we're talking about... rooty tooty fresh 'n fruity yep, it's back. for a limited time. the six dollar rooty tooty fresh 'n fruity combo. 2 eggs, 2 bacon strips, and 2 fruit topped pancakes. only from ihop. lomita feed is 101 years old this year and counting. i'm bill lockwood, current caretaker and owner. when covid hit, we had some challenges like a lot of businesses did. i heard about the payroll tax refund, it allowed us to keep the amount of people that we needed and the people that have been here taking care of us. see if your business may qualify. go to getrefunds.com.

(vo) if you've had thyroid eye disease for years and your enflamed eyes are so watery, see if your business may qualify. they need windshield wipers, it's not too late for another treatment option. to learn more visit treatted.com. that's treatt-e-d.com. to all the chevy silverado owners out there. the adventurers and the doers. ♪ to everyone who works hard and plays hard. [motorcycle engine] [truck engine revving] whether it's your first silverado or your tenth. thank you for making chevy silverado the number one best-selling retail full-size pickups. ♪ we are all back. catie, let me read to you this

on this move from the proud boys from "the new york times." their lawyers contend because the government has accused the defendants as inciting others to join them in attacking the capitol as, quote, tools of conspiracy they have a right to rebut the claim with an alternate theory, that's that trump was cucking the conspiracy. >> legally sound argument to be made. i'm not sympathetic to the proud boys from any stretch of the imagination. but if that is your defense and you can call a witness to substantiate our corroborate your defense, why not have the opportunity to put this in front of the jury. what type of pickle does the government find itself in? it's always been donald trump was the designer, the master planner for what ended up happening. but there's never been a very clear evidentiary through line.

but it's put or shut up time to some extent. if you as a proud boy have something more than just donald trump telling you then you need to put it out there. the government opened the door to the opportunity for them to call donald trump as a defense witness because the government has honed in on and harped on the fact that donald trump was one of the people that basically incited the crowd to storm the capitol on 1/6. getting those subpoenas issued, serving it, good luck. although the doors at mar-a-lago are open, can anyone could dart in. jack smith would love to hear what donald trump has to say but donald trump's not stupid enough to take the stand and testify against himself. >> what do you think? >> yeah, we don't think he's very smart but we don't think he's that stupid either. yeah, i don't expect him to show up either. something he said really struck me because i want them to stand on their own.

i don't want them to call donald trump. these are big boys, they knew exactly what they were doing at the capitol that day but also reminds me of the fact that language really matters here. what donald trump did and we always use the word shame, but one of it things he did he neutralized guilt in this country. he gave people the window maybe not text messages, maybe that's not the through line, but the through line is rhetorical. his comments directed a group of people by the way helped by another network to get to these individuals to make sure they were carrying out some organized, chaotic campaign. and the scary part, the scary thing i keep coming back to is there's a lot of people out there not on trial, not in cort right now trying to call donald trump to get them to help that are out there planning something else. this is the real concern i have. to me that through line is

rhetorical, and probably has more residence than any text message would ever have had. >> also he's not -- i don't know even know his children under oath would describe him as a kind and generous person, that he wants amnesty for the insurrectionists, why do we think that is? my thanks for spending the hour with us. katie has a new time slot at 8:00 a.m. followed by our friends. we'll all be watching in our pajamas. but up next u.s. police officer aerodear friend harry dunn will be here weighing in on these dweemts today. we'll talk to him about the lies and conspiracies that ultimately pushed the rioters to do what they described as, quote, medieval compat with law enforcement on that day. we'll be back after a quick break. don't go anywhere. k after a qui break. don't go anywhere. explore new worlds, and to start screening for colon cancer. yep.

with colon cancer rising in adults under 50, the american cancer society recommends starting to screen earlier, at age 45. i'm cologuard, a noninvasive way to screen at home, on your schedule. and i find 92% of colon cancers. i'm for people 45+ at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you.

every piece of land has a story - written by those who work it. like the caggianos, who are brewing their own legacy. or the wrens, with their drama free plot - tranquil and serene. the upshaws? they diy, all the time. while the nelson's play lead in their own adventure, 150 years in the making. there's a story in every piece of land. run with us and start telling yours.

us four officers we would do january 6th all over again. we wouldn't stay home because we knew it was going to happen. we should show up. that's curage s, that's heroic. so what i would ask from you all is get to the bottom of what happened. i use the analogy describing a hit man. if a hit man is hired and he kills somebody the hit man goes to jail. but not only the hit man goes to jail but the person who hired them does. there was an attack carried out

on january 6th and a hitman sent them. i want you to get to the bottom of that. >> hi again, everybody. it's 5:00 in new york, it was a simple declaration, and at the time monumental. that was officer harry dunn asking the january 6th select committee in its first public hearing to hold to account not only the people who physically stormed the capitol building but the people who fomented it, the people who sent them there as well, the individuals that spread the lies that led people to believe they had a reason and a right to try and stop an official government proceeding and threaten and damage the lives of the people who protected it including the lawmakers and even the then-vice president. what we're seeing now thanks to an unbelievable legal filing made public just last night is that the people who influenced the mob for their own financial benefit extends to on-air

personalities and executives of a television network. that'd be fox news because those at fox promoted and elevated the lies about a stolen election. they riled up their viewers into believing these falsehoods while knowing all the while that they were ludicrous lies, tat they did so to make sure they maintain their viewership levels in the wake of the 2020 election being won by and called for president joe biden. there was a course of comments like these on the fox news air waves. >> now, tonight millions of americans you do feel betrayed. according to politico look at this 70% of republicans they don't believe the selection was free, fair, and for good reason. >> the most important part of democracy is to do it correctly. most important question tonight is did we in 2020? >> i'm working on the part of the case which is demonstrating how many legal votes were cast and i'm way beyond the margin i need in michigan or

pennsylvania. >> they're doing it in every way imaginable for having people vote in massive numbers to absolutely fraudulently creating ballots that exist only voting for biden. >> the 2020 presidential election was not fair. no honest person would claim that it was fair. on many levels the system was rigged against one candidate and in favor of another. >> thanks to this filing we know something about those segments we didn't know before -- before they happened they knew all that was as bill barr would say bull bleep. thanks to the legal filing by dominion systems, we know at fox it was an entirely different story and nobody was arguing these things were true. quote, when rupert murdoch

watched rudy giuliani and sydney powell quote, terrible stuff. by november 18th tucker carlson told laura ingram, quote sydney powell is lying, by the way, i caught her, it's insane. laura ingraham explains, quote, sydney is a complete nut, no one will work with her. carlson reply, quote, it's unbelievably offensive to me. our viewers are good people and they believe it. on that narrow assessment he was right. the lies that found a megaphone, a massive megaphone, the most watched cable network in the country were not just broadcast, amplified, knowingly disseminated by anchors who knew they were b.s., they were believed by the audience and it's what led to the deadly insurrection. those lies are still doing damage to our democracy. a pew research poll from this past december, just a few months

ago, found that 58% of republicans remain not too confident or not at all confident that mail-in ballots in the mid-term elections were counted as voters intended them to be. a stunning inside look at backers of the big lie is where we begin the hour with u.s. capitol police officer harry dunn. he's author of the book "standing my ground the capitol police officer's fight for accountability and good trouble." you know we're so happy to have you here, and it happened to be a day which you called for, which is not a right, left proposition but simple accountability has been thrust into the spotlight with an inside look inside a very influential network in terms of the ex-president and his supporters. what are your thoughts as you look through that? >> well, thanks for having me on. and i think first thing's first, i have to acknowledge senator fetterman and i want to wish him well in his recovery. it takes a big person literally

and figuratively with him to admit he needs help and seek it. so my thoughts are with him and his family. >> harry, let's talk about that for a second. >> sure. >> you know, i think there was a remarkable cacophony of voices, a new york congressman tweeted and sort of acinformationed his own personal struggles with mental health. you know how i feel about how you use your meg aphone to ask people if they're okay, to talk about not being okay which many of us are at one point or another. talk about the man and what he's going through and how vulnerable you feel when this is public? >> well, i don't know if you've seen it but i saw a lot of people online criticizing the senator talking about what does he have to be depressed about, and there were a lot of attacks on him and his character for

admitting he was depressed and admitted he needed help, which is kind of why the stigma still exists about mental health or why a lot of individuals fight that battle in silence and they suffer in silence because look at what the backlash the senator is getting for literary just asking for help. who would have ever thought that asking help would lead to people attacking you for a weakness and a vulnerability that you're sharing with the world. i think he's a brave man, and i wish him well. and we need to continue to have this conversation and make the people that are criticizing the individuals he helped, we need to make them feel uncomfortable because they're in the wrong here. they're not the people that are seeking help. >> well, senator fetterman is so interesting because tragically he also suffered a stroke. when he suffered a stroke no one criticized him for seeking the

appropriate health care and remedies for a stroke. mental health is still whether we like it or not still stigmatized. >> but also mental health is health. like you said when he had a stroke he selected the appropriate physical medical attention. your brain is a part of your body, and when you're feeling depressed it has a lot to do with your brain. i'm not an adequate doctor or a psychologist at all, but i do understand the feelings and feelings you have in your body, depression and anxiety, that is all a part of health and needs to be addressed by a medical professional, not some therapist on facebook or on twitter or fox news people criticizing and not wishing the senator well. >> you know, we got to talk yesterday. i was thinking about mental health, and you know i spent a lot of time -- i did five hours

on it over on pea caulk. and i talked to you about getting you and prince harry together. he talks a lot about mental health and destigmatizing. i watched silver linings play book last night. and what that film does is goes inside how your family grapples with it. your kid, the person you love most in the world has this disease, and even families struggle to understand how these pieces fit together, taking care of your body and exercise, medication, therapy, space and time and relationships. and i wonder how we do a better job having that conversation as a country. >> it's good you mention the family part. people can have strong families and a lot of people around them, but it is the individual illness. it is an individual illness. the fact you have family there and friends and loved ones and a support system, that's beneficial and it helps you get through it. i mean, me suffering with ptsd.

yeah, a lot of people support me and let me know they're there with me, my family, my friends, my support system. while people have their families with them, but it is an individual illness that you fight alone. and it's in your mind you do, but knowing you have support around you i guess makes it a little easier. for me it does but everybody's different. like i said as far as how we change it, we just need to make the people that are talking down about people seeking help -- seeking help, they're the ones that need to feel uncomfortable not the ones that are seeking help. i've said this many times there's no new phrase, no new slogan, no new mission statement about mental health. everything's been said that needed to be said. people just need to start accepting it and living by it.

>> you just said something so important, that it is above everything else. even when you're loved, even when you're supported, it is incredibly isolating and isolated experience, especially ptsd, which is really a complicated syndrome, complicated from a medical standpoint and a therapeutic standpoint. and i'll ask in a minute if the news cycle retraumatizes you every time these things break through. but i wonder what you get when you travel the country for talking about it and putting it out there? does that lessen the isolation of it? >> it's therapeutic for me talking about it. you know, some people -- i've heard techniques where some people just write their thoughts down on the paper, continue to write about it and burn the paper. or i've seen things where people focus on the positive in their life, gratitude, what are they grateful for in their life and

consume their thoughts with things that make them happy. and acknowledging the things that make you sad and hurt and depressed and isolated, acknowledging those things exist, but also acknowledging you have so much more in your life to be thankful for than the opposite. so, you know, for me like i said, sure, it's triggering or when you see these things it re-traumatizes you, but kind of when i see it it's kind of like i'm getting a test. i've studied for my test. i've prepared, and then i see this stuff. i'm like, wow, okay, i've studied enough and i'm able to pass this test with flying colors. and some tests that i come across that, you know, i didn't prepare good enough for this and i need to take this test again. so i continue to speak out and just it's therapeutic for me to keep on speaking out, realizing you're beating a dead horse, but that's fine, you can turn the

cannel. i'll keep talking and spreading my truth and healing as i see fit. >> nobody turns the channel when you're talking. people listen. i want to ask you about how accountability fits into this because you have been so clear -- like your clarity, and that was the very first public hearing of the january 6th select committee. before they went prime time in hollywood you testified before the january 6th select committee with simple times. we as a country haven't done that yet. how does that land with you? >> i -- i kind of botched it a little bit. everyone knew what i meant, but i missed the words around, but everyone knew what i meant by that analogy.

but, you know, one of the things when i first testified -- when we first testified with the other three officers, we didn't know what we didn't know. and we see how deep this -- the attempt to overthrow the government on january 6th went. we see how deep that it went even looking back and now with the revelations with dominion voting machines and the lawsuits against fox news, you had -- like i said you had the text thread of the three prominent anchors there privately acknowledging, you know, everything's a lie and how crazy people are. like they're attacking sydney powell in text messages privately, but publicly they're attacking me, the sergeant and mike funone, they attacked us on things they knew were a lie. but yet things they knew were

true they privately attacked sydney powell and rudy giuliani. that's a little disheartening. they did that privately but they knew it was a lie. they knew it was true and we found out in january 6th one of the hearings when they got the text messages from fox news, they knew how bad it was, and yet they attacked us and things they knew were true and we were telling the truth about it. not even disheartening, it makes you angry and more dismissive of them and they don't have any credibility at all. actually if you remember -- i don't who had remember yet. you have to watch it to remember, but the day we testified, that night laura ingram presented all four of us with superlative awards like we were -- >> crisis actors. >> crisis actors. the biggest exaggeration went to i think it was michael fanone, and, you know, the political award went to me.

they were criticizing us just for their viewership as we've seen in these text messages. and i don't know understand how people like that sleep at night. i guess they're rich, but whatever. i need a clear conscience, and it just sucks they don't have any sense of conscience. >> you know, i don't know two of those three but i used to know shaun hannity and i believe he saw himself at one time as an advocate for law enforcement. can you just to be clear explain what the lies he pedalled meant for law enforcement that day, what you're going through and still going through? >> one of the things i talked about when earlier in this segment on the show you talked about how the fox news executive thought it was too dangerous or irresponsible to have donald trump on that night. why? because think about it real quick, the people on january 6th

felt emboldened. they thought they were right that day. and even if you look at the latest filings he said that just happened with the proud boys, they're calling donald trump because the most powerful person on planet earth, you know, depending on what continent or country is asking the question, but here in america the most powerful person is the president. and if he's giving the orders to do something, of course you're going to feel emboldened to do it. that's why i felt it was dangerous for him to be on for an anchor to -- excuse me, for an executive to say we can't have him on because they knew how dangerous it was. i don't get into people who say they use these blanket statements to support the police, defund the police, whatever, i don't get into all of that. people use it as talking points and that's all they do. they use these phrases and

slogans as talking points only when it's convenient for them. that's why it comes back to bite them in the butt when people say defund the police or they're out there clapping for the police or they're saying back the blue and then thore they're not backing the blue. it's just talking points. when you use that just be consistent all the time and you don't have to worry about having pie on your face and having to defend what you say or even just doubling down on some of the b.s. that you've said in the past. >> harry, that piece that i read from about trump actually calls in and they refuse to put him through. i think it becomes the fodder for an "snl" skit, but it's not in the january 6th select committee transcripts. we didn't know it before. but when you have fox news believing that it's too dangerous to put trump on the air because he's sitting as commander in chief on top of the militias that day, not the u.s.

military. i mean when you have the proud boys making the same argument, you know, i want him on the stand because i was there serving the chain of command with him at the top and you don't have the doj charging him for over two years for leading an insurrection against the u.s. government, how do you explain doj not seeing what fox news and the proud boys see so clearly? >> see, that -- that is so interesting that you say that. like, i've never tried a case -- i can't even imagine what it would be like to -- >> i can't either. >> right, but you see what you see and i don't know. i do have confidence in the justice department and the doj. i have confidence in it. i'm anxious and i'm eagerly awaiting the day that the announcement comes, but i'll just leave it as i have confidence in them, and i think they're going to do their jobs

and do the right thing and hold the right people accountable, which from day one is all that i've ever wanted. >> are you optimistic as we sit here today talking about the pace of accountability and the vastness of the conspiracy to peddle lies and the brazenness and unapologetic nature eked out against you and your colleagues, are you optimistic things are getting better as we're now at the midway point between the last election and the next one? >> i don't know it's becoming better. i think it's becoming a distant memory. and when things aren't happening and things aren't in your face you forget about them. call it revisionist history. and then when things show up you're like, oh, yeah, remember that time? so i don't necessarily know it's, you know, getting better, but it -- it's not front and center anymore. but that's why here i am, and i'm not going to -- as long as i

can i'm going to use my voice in whatever platform i have to -- i'll use my last dying breath to seek accountability. but i'd be a liar if i said i thought i think it's getting better. i just think people feel bad about it. >> yeah, i'd be a letter if i said i didn't agree with you. but how about this, i'll spend my last dying breath doing the same thing. we may end up shouting on the corner at the end of our lives. i'll do the same with you. that's the deal. thank you so much for starting us off this hour. it's always a pleasure to get to talk to you. thank you so much, my friend. >> always, always. >> thank you. all right, when we come back our panel will join us to talk about what we just heard from officer harry dunn and the pedaling of lies by fox news and the very real possibility that an ex-president might actually be indicted for something.

plus another example that vote fraud this isn't a thing, this doesn't happen at least not in the way of republicaness who continue to push voter restrictions and voter suppression laws make it out to be, but it does serve as another incentive for pro-democracy democrats to fight back aggressively. what they're doing on that front later in the hour. and ukraine's president zelenskyy pleading with western allies to send more military aid, why ukraine's citizens continue to need more humanitarian aid as the war nears the one-year mark. our dear friend dr. redliner is back from ukraine and tell us what he saw and what they need. "deadline white house" is back after a quick break. don't go anywhere. s back after a quick break. don't go anywhere. [ tires squeal, crash ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream. now, where were we? [ cheering ]

if you still have symptoms of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. stand up to your symptoms with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop further irreversible joint damage. and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal;

cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save.

yesterday's release of sections of the special grand jury report in the fulton county, georgia, investigation forced us to contemplate what would it look like if donald trump does get indicted. well, it won't be pretty and it won't be quick, but it may be necessary. that's according to legal experts who write in "the new york times" today in an op-ed that says this, quote, if trump is charged it'll be difficult and at times even perilous for american democracy, but it is necessary to deter him and others from future attempted coups. whether it's simple or broad if the case is open one thing is nearly certain, it's going to take a while, probably the better part of the next two years and perhaps longer. still the debate is worth having and the risks are worth taking. joining our conversation axios political reporter and msnbc contributor alexi mccammen, also

joining us miles taylor, former chief of staff at the department of homeland security, also the co-founder of the mr. political party forward. miles, your thoughts on this moment. >> i think it's not just a significant moment for right now in american politics, i think in the entire history of the american public, the american republic, we've not seen anything like this. if a former president is indicted for trying to overturn a free and fair democratic election, then it probably is the most significant judicial act to have happened in this country's history. it really would be a watershed moment for this to happen. bullet to your point, nicolle, it's also crucial for accountability. because the fact that a lot of these people in and around trump's orbit have not yet been held accountable has sent the opposite message to people in the american political system. and more specifically it sent a message within the republican party that promoting election

conspiracy theories and lies and endorsing political intimidation and violence is not just acceptable, it's a winning strategy. and it's why right now we see a u.s. house of representatives that is dominated by people that share that view, that is run by the maga movement where people like marjorie taylor greene are no longer on the outskirts, they're at the center of the legal party structure. so if the judicial system can't send a message of accountability for people who try to overturn our democratic institutions, then we can expect more donald trumps and savvier successors to arise in our political system and really threaten those foundations of our republic. it is no less than a national security issue, and that's why accountability is so important. even if it causes in the short-term more political heartburn, additional division, we know that will happen. but what normizen and others were saying in that article is it's still the right thing to do and we have to do it anyway. >> miles, let me just say the

reason that article appeared is because nothing has happened, right? we're talking about it now because fulton county, georgia, may go first. it is no longer an item to debate whether or not merrick garland did what harry dunn and other officers who paid with their body and a life of ptsd said happened. they engaged in, quote, medieval combat with trump's supporters. and as liz cheney argued in an investigation that started was conducted and wrapped before there was any evidence doj was subpoenaing people deep inside the trump circle. donald trump lit the match, he stoked the match, while it was going he did nothing, and afterward he's still pedaling the lies that inspired the whole thing. what do we do about the other side of the coin, not just that trump is still doing it, but even our country's federal department of justice didn't seem to want to catch the hot potato? >> you know, i honestly think, nicolle, this goes to a broader

issue we've been talking about for a long time, which is people are really afraid to stand up and do the right thing, and i just have to take a second to note about that last segment with harry, just the fact harry dunn and people like john fetterman are being so vulnerable and so candid about issues like mental health, that's the type of courage we need in our political system. i was completely leveled by that "a" segment, by the way, and hearing how honest harry was about that. that's the kind of courage that generally is lacking in this town. that building behind me in the u.s. capitol is filled now with spinelessness, and it's what put us in this predicament, and that goes to the department of justice, too. there are well mean, good people in the department of justice that i believe are scared to bring some of these charges. even though they know they're right, they're worried about the political firestorm and frankly in some cases their families being chased down by these

people. we've seen far right supporters hunt down and try to assassinate sitting members of congress. it is a volatile political climate. but my friend alex vinman puts it simply. he said to me, miles, intimidation works. and the only way to counter it is to show that you won't be intimidated. and the more people who do that, the easier it becomes for people to stand up. there's strength in numbers, and that applies just as much as it does for the crazies on the extreme violence side as it does for the people willing to be courageous and stand up and do the right thing. so i think we all feel the justice department has been acting sluggishly. i do have hope merrick garland and team will do the right thing, they're trying to build the case the right way. it is indeed shocking we may see action at the state and local level before we see the u.s. department of justice take the action that so clearly they need to take based on the publicly

available evidence. >> let me be clear the republican party is the threat to our democracy. the january 6th insurrection was described by christopher wray and ted cruz until he went on tucker carlson's show until he went on as domestic terrorism. i'm not criticizing merrick garland because he's not doing as much as the republicans. we don't have a functioning republican party when it comes to stand up to domestic violence extremism. they've opted out for reasons they'll have to explain to the country if they lose another mid-term cycle as badly as the senate candidates lost the last one. that said, i wonder if you could check any newfound willingness for the senate democrats to hold accountable all of the conduct that is becoming public either through the reporting in "the new york times" that the durham probe and two of durham's top lieutenants left it and quit,

that a criminal investigation was certainly opened by mr. durham as some people in the media suspected and reported it had been. but it hadn't been into the investigators, it had been been into donald trump. do you sense any appetite for accountability among democratic senators? >> i mean, absolutely. and i think it's coming from president biden himself, too. you see the way in which he's willing to go further than just calling out the maga republicans but singling out folks trying to lie about their positions on different things and trying to lie to the american people about where they stand and where the republican party stands today. i mean you kind of alluded to this, the republican party is so closely associated with conspiracy theories, the marjorie taylor greenes and other folks who are pushing these things that it's difficult for democrats to look the other way. and every time they do something different, democrats are figuring out a way to respond. but accountability is something democrats are looking for. it's something we hear voters

are looking for, and they don't want to see anyone who thinks they're above the law. even folks who voted for donald trump in the past don't want to see that, so democrats are going to keep trying to hold them accountable, and they're figuring that out certainly ahead of '24 where biden is going to have to carry that message from the top down and everywhere he goes. >> i heard from the caucus leader hakeem jeffreys is putting the right people in the right places to push back even though they're in the minority. what are you picking up on that front, alexi? >> there's been a crop of these really kind of dynamic freshman members, freshman democrats led by hakeem jeffries who as you know is a great order, knows how to message well for the party, always breaks things into threes. but you see people like congressman robert garcia, for example, or max frost, these folks willing to call out republicans. they say b.s., and they say it

exactly like that. they're ready it go toe to toe with these folks they've seen playing political games, believing in conspiracy theories that lead to things like political violence and january 6 kt. and now they have the opportunity to sit on these committees and talk to these folks and talk to the american people they're trying to be as real as republicans are posturing to be. >> alexi mccamened and miles taylor thank you for spending time with us today. and thanks for your comments about harry. he's something inasmuch. when we come back the courts continue to find it you guessed it zero evidence of voter fraud. but that is not stopping republicans from continuing to push new voter suppression laws. top democratic voting rights attorney mark elias has a deal for them. he'll tell you about it after a quick break. about it after a quick break.

postmenopausal women with hr+ her2- metastatic breast cancer are living longer with kisqali. so, long live family time. long live dreams. and long live you. kisqali is a pill proven to help women live longer when taken with an aromatase inhibitor. and kisqali helps preserve quality of life. so you're not just living, you're living well. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes,

dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. long live hugs and kisses. ask about kisqali. and long live life. my husband and i have never been more active. ask about kisqali. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site,

muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today.

she was such an unserious candidate for arizona governor that "snl" found her campaign sketch worthy and yet somehow some way 101 days after losing kari lake has managed to turn herself into a perch line, a caricature of election denialism, refusing to admit she lost when everyone except the pillow guy is trying to convince her otherwise. but now includes arizona's court of appeals which yesterday rejected her evidence-free election challenge by

reaffirming an earlier court ruling that insisted she did indeed lose by about 17,000 votes in november. it might be enough to make you laugh if only it weren't the case that republicans are right now taking advantage of such election doubts to systematically reshape the electorate. just this week the arizona senate proposed a proposal and the frightening part this phenomenon isn't unique or limited to arizona. republicans across the country are actively trying to make it harder to vote despite the fact there is no fraud. so what should the rest of us do especially democrats in charge of state legislatures right now? to answer that question mark elias, voting rights attorney, founder of the site emergency docket. first tell about your offer to republicans and whether you had any takers.

>> i offered them if they stopped passing laws that suppress the right to vote i'll stop suing them for passing laws that suppress the right to vote. and so far no takers. but i'm still open. my phone is available if any of the republican governors want to call me and say, look, stop suing us, we'll stop passing voter suppression laws p. i'm all ears. >> so i always like to get into the weeds and drill down on the legal and policy fronts, but i need to start on the big story that fox news knowingly helped cultivate and create a climate in which millions and millions of their viewers believe this fever dream of election fraud. how do we put the toothpaste back in that tube? >> so that's the great problem, right? the problem of a great democracy so many of it depends on responsible organizations and actors acting responsibly and people acting in accordance with political norms that are not necessarily written down. and one of those is the

important role the media plays in the peaceful transfer ow power. i am sure, nicolle, you didn't relish on election night in 2016 at msnbc and elsewhere that donald trump was the winner. i was with secretary clinton where she was awaiting the results, but part of the peaceful transfer of power is recognizing that, you know, you win elections, you lose elections. and the media reports on it as they see it. and what's really shocking and disturbing about what we see that has come out of fox news in the last couple of days is that they knew that what they were pedaling was not true. and they knew it from top to bottom. they knew it at the tammant level using that word loosely, you know, and the whole network seems to have made a decision they were going to allow themselves to be used to peddle lies because they were afraid otherwise they would alienate

their viewers. >> and so fast forward to what's happening in arizona, we promised we'd get to all of the states. tell us what's happening there. >> yeah, so we're now onto state three. we've covered michigan. we've covered new york in past gatherings. arizona has a chance now with a new secretary of state, great secretary of state, great governor katy hobbs to make real progress on their voting laws. and they can start by repealing some of the really terrible laws that republicans have put in place and also making enforcement decisions. you know, we recently saw a poor woman in st. louis, arizona, was put in jail for 40 days for collecting four ballots. there's no allegation those ballots were illegally cast. she was simply helping her neighbor get those to the post office or get it in.

you should know there's a highway that goes down that prevents 13,000 voters from being able to walk to the post office. and there's no at the house mail delivery there. so let's start by saying we're not going to enforce that law which is terrible law in arizona and then we're going to try to repeal it. that's one thing. second, we know arizona has had a problem with certification. reforming their certification process, we saw coaches county, arizona, refuse to certify the elections and have to be sued. arizona should clarify its laws to make clear abundantly, unmistakably clear that certification election results is not discretionary on the part of county election officials. and if they don't certify it can be automatically certified by the secretary of state. so those are two quick things they could do, repeal some of those bad laws, allow ballot

collection and repeal their certification laws. but i have others if you have time. >> what's amazing, too, we're having this very sort of rooted in fact and policy law conversation about arizona. it's where you have the craziest election deniers the country over still using the courts to peddle her false claims. and if you read the discovery documents of the dominion case the break with their viewers happens when fox accurately as everyone else in the media did calls arizona for biden. why is arizona such a touchstone? >> so i think it's a place where you had intraparty warfare between the moderate republicans represented by john mccain and people like kari lake. often times it brings us the most extreme elements when the nonmoderate faction wins, and then you have a closely divided state and a lack of political courage among republicans in

that state. the fact is governor ducey could have done more to stand up against the crazies. you could have seen the business community do more against the crazies. but the republican party sort of let the crazies be crazy in a way there that just snowballed. and now arizonians are paying the price for that and it's really unfortunate. >> mark elias so we've done three. there's 17. we have 14 to go. we'll see you next week with our next batch. >> i'm ready. >> so are we. we can't wait. when we come back with a week to go before the one-year mark of russia's brutal invasion and war in ukraine a first-hand view how ukrainian's citizens and children are doing right now today and what they so desperately need right now to survive. desperately need right now to survive.

if your moderate to severe crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms are stopping you in your tracks... choose stelara® from the start... and move toward relief after the first dose... with injections every two months. stelara® may increase your risk of infections, some serious, and cancer. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, sores, new skin growths, have had cancer, or if you need a vaccine. pres, a rare, potentially fatal brain condition, may be possible. some serious allergic reactions and lung inflammation can occur. feel unstoppable. ask your doctor how lasting remission can start with stelara®.

janssen can help you explore cost support options. living with metastatic breast cancer means i cherish my memories. but i don't just look back on them, i look forward to the chance to make new ones every day with verzenio. verzenio is proven to help you live significantly longer when taken with fulvestrant. verzenio + fulvestrant is for hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer that has progressed after hormone therapy. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at the first sign, call your doctor, start an antidiarrheal, and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about any new ning tuble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain and rapid breathing or heart rate or if you are nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. i'm making future memories every day with verzenio.

ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. i think i changed my mind about these glasses. ask your doctor yeah, it happens. that's why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. it's simple. anything else i can help you with? like what? visionworks. see the difference. i'm managing my high blood pressure, but i'm still a target for chronic kidney disease. and my type 2 diabetes means i'm also a target. we are targets too. millions have chronic kidney disease and 90% don't know they have it. so ask for your kidney numbers and farxiga. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ if you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away

if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. and don't take it if you are on dialysis. take aim at chronic kidney disease-- ask your doctor for your kidney numbers and ask for farxiga. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ i wanted to hear from the world, ukraine, we will be with you. unfortunately, i heard it only after russia missiles struck our land. that is why we need to hurry-up. we need the speed, the speed of our agreements, the speed of our delivery to strengthen, speed of decisions to limit russian potential. there is no alternative to speed because it is the speed that the

life depends on. >> that was ukrainian president zelenskyy who continues to plead at this point with his allies in the west for more and quicker support as his country continues its brutal war against russia. one zelenskyy compared to the story of david and goliath. in just one week it'll be one year since the start of this war. and while the fight for freedom continues on the front lines of the ukrainian people, the country's leaders are looking to the future on how to rebuild their country amid one of the largest humanitarian crises since world war ii. according to the united nations more than 6 million people have been displaced since the war began. many of them are women and children. joining us now msnbc public health analyst dr. irwin redlener, professor of pediatrics. he is the co-founder of the ukraine children's action project, an initiative to provide urgent mental health and

educational support to displaced ukrainian children. thank you for being here. you're just back from ukraine. tell us how this trip went and how it compared to your others? >> just back, right, a couple days ago and the situation is very intense now. there's air-raid sirens very frequently. >> all over the country, oigt? >> all over the country including the western part that had been considered the safe zone, it's not that safe anymore. there's a lot of bombs, missiles being fired, drones. and ukraine is shooting most of them but not a lot of them down. we had a lot of meetings in shelters including with the mayor of lviv in the basement shelter city hall in lviv. and i'll tell you the people are amazingly resilient. zelenskyy is totally inspiring but what people don't realize are so are the actual citizens, the people, the families of ukraine are very resilient.

even those still remaining in the east. it's pretty -- it's pretty extraordinary. >> and are most kids going to school going to school in shelters at this point? >> no, on the western side they're going to school in schools buzz there's no schools allowed to be open unless they have an actual functional shelter in the school -- >> that fits all the kids. >> that fits all the kids and they can continue their lessons. the problem is that the electricity goes out for a long time during the day, and we along with the american federation of teachers just provided 48 big generators to virtually all of the lower elementary grades in lviv. on the other hand, richard engel the other day reported from the east where there were children going to classes in the basements of bombed out buildings. and, you know, so there's all different situations around the country, but it really gets brutal, and the psychological

stress on kids is as intense as you can imagine. >> and kids don't have any escape from it because their parents are living through this brutal war as well. what is it we can do to support the ukrainian sort of family unit? >> well, there's a couple things. first of all, the big thing is we should not forget about this. you know, the other sort of hidden threat to ukraine's future is going to be an erosion of -- of the psychological health and education of children. war obviously is the big priority and we really have to help ukrainians as much as we possibly can. at the same time we have to pay attention to what the children are experiencing in terms of their educational opportunities, and it's very limited especially for the refugee kids. >> and where are they? are they mostly in the west now? are they displaced ukrainians moved to the west of ukraine. >> there's about 2 million children now that have move

mostly their moms because their dads are off fighting on the fronts, and there's another 2 million outside the country. and a lot of those children outside the country -- for example, two thirds of the refugee kids in poland are actually not going to school. and they're in limbo, and this has to be really addressed. and what people can do is don't forget about the domestic and the humanitarian needs of the children and families. and second of all there's organizations that people can contribute to really help make a dent in these challenges. >> we'll try to come back to this regular, but certainly in the lead up to the one-year, can't imagine that before the war started i remember being on the air before it started but going about their lives like any one of us. and now they live with war for a year. >> people are as resilient its citizens as zelenskyy is, and it's pretty inspiring.

>> thank you so much for coming to see us. to be continued. if you'd like to help the children and families in ukraine you might want to make a donation to the ukraine children's action program. the website is ukrainecap.org. it's up on your screen right now. we'll tweet it out later. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. later a quick break for us we'll be right back. whoa. okay. easy does it. we switched to liberty mutual and saved $652. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe!

saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it! it's actually... whooooa! ok, show-off! help! oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com. a lot of new dry eye patients in my office tell me about their frequent dry eyes, which may point to dry eye disease. millions of americans were estimated to have it. they also tell me they've tried artificial tears again and again, but the relief is temporary. xiidra can provide

lasting relief. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied and unusual taste sensation. why wait? ask your eye doctor about a 90-day prescription for xiidra today. business can happen anytime, anywhere. so help yours thrive and stay connected with the why wait? ask your eye doctor comcast business complete connectivity solution. it's the largest, fastest, reliable network. advanced gig speed wifi. and cyberthreat protection. starting at just $49.99 a month. plus, you can save up to 60% a year when you add comcast business mobile. or, ask how to get up to a $750 prepaid card. complete connectivity. one solution, for wherever business takes you. comcast business. powering possibilities.

thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows. we're so grateful. "the beat" starts right now. >> thank you so much, nicolle. welcome