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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  February 17, 2023 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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it was really trump using giuliani like his roy cohn. i could see the way giuliani was being so aggressive with the ukrainian officials. >> that was lev parnas recently out of prison telling ari he truly believes trump and giuliani committed crimes. for more insight into the giuliani story, msnbc has you covered this weekend. check out the four-part series, when truth isn't the truth. the rudy giuliani story, starting this sunday, 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc, and it will also be streaming on peacock. that does it for me, myself, and i tonight. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next.
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tonight on "the reidout" -- >> companies call dominion voting. several days ago, dominion came under heavy fire after allegations their machines caused thousands of votes in one michigan county were switched from donald trump to joe biden. >> we talked about the dominion software. there were voting irregiarities. >> that's to put it mildly. >> that's what they were saying on the air. when the cameras were off, those same fox hosts were calling election fraud claims bs, because on fox, it is all a performance. they knew trump lost but continued to lie to their audience to keep their maga viewers happy. >> also tonight, the real giuliani. although some called him america's mayor, there were disturbing signs long before he became trump's lawyer that he was willing to do or say anything to get rich and grab another moment in the spotlight.
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plus, senator john fetterman's battle with clinical depression and how things have changed since another senator caused a firestorm with his own revelation a half century earlier. >> we begin tonight with some tough love for fox news viewers. you might want to record this and send it to your maga hat wearing parents or uncles because frankly, they deserve to know. okay. ready? here it is. you need to know that most of what you hear on fox news, especially about the 2020 election, is a lie. the hosts that you love and whose every word you hang on likely don't believe a single thing they're saying to you. in fact, according to the legal brief released by dominion, the voting machine company that is suing fox news for $1.6 billion for lying about them, every major fox news talk show host is only pretending to support
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donald trump. and faking that they believe the 2020 election was stolen from him. and they are lying to you for the most obvious reason of all. which dominion calls out on page 35 of their blockbuster filing. in which they quote an email from ron mitchell, the vice president of primetime programming and analytics at fox, who emailed his bosses, the president of fox news and the ceo, nearly two weeks after the election on november 18th, 2020 saying, quote, viewers are watching less. and he suggested a solution. quote, do not ever give viewers a reason to turn us off. why were viewers turning them off? here was fox news on election night. >> the fox news decision desk is calling arizona for joe biden. that is a big get. >> fox news was the first network to call arizona. a key battleground state for joe
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biden. behind the scenes, the entirely accurate call triggered a collective freak out at the trump white house and throughout fox news. according to dominion's filing, the senior vice president and manager editor of fox's washington bureau, bill salmon, received an angry text from a member of trump's team claiming it was way too soon to be calling arizona. minutes later, salmon received a similarly angry phone call from white house chief of staff mark meadows. fox was so concerned that senior executives discussed the backlash the following morning during their daily editorial meeting. the trifecta of professional trump apologists, tucker carlson, sean hannity, and laura ingraham, were equally livid. carlson wrote his producer on november 5th. we worked really hard to build what we have. those fers are destroying our credibility. it enrages me.
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he added, what trump's good at is destroying things. he's the undisputed world champion of that. he could easily destroy us if we play it wrong. in another text to his producer, he added, do the executives understand how much credibility and trust we have lost with our audience? we're playing with fire for real. an alternative like newsmax could be devastating to us. you see that? tucker didn't care about the facts. what he cared about were things like the company stock price and keeping trump's fan base tuning in. and frankly, he wasn't wrong to be concerned. >> actually chanting fox news sucks. fox news sucks. the reason why they're chanting that is because fox news called arizona for biden yesterday. and a lot of people are angry about that. >> and here is what newsmax, which carlson specifically called out as a threat to fox's
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dominance with conservative viewers, here's what they were saying at around the same time. >> you do have to keep in mind as you said, tom, we're not calling it here at newsmax. >> i'm highly skeptical and you should be too. their allegations of dead people voting. >> president-elect joe biden. i don't think so. i just don't think so. it doesn't look right. it doesn't sound right. it doesn't feel right. and it's not right. >> just doesn't feel right. now, back in new york, fox made a decision to stop telling the truth and start indulging the lies. according to media matters, in a two-week period after the election, fox questioned the results or pushed conspiracy theories nearly 800 times and here's what that looked like. >> the dominion software system has been tagged as one allegedly capable of flipping votes. >> don't forget, still serious questions about the integrity of dominion. all i know is democrats, the media, and republicans prior to
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this election agreed. >> dominion is calling all of the allegations that you have made absurd. your response? >> it's almost laughable. they have closed up their offices and moved elsewhere. >> now, of course, none of that was true and every significant person at fox news knew it. and now here's the part where i let you in on the behind the scenes of this job. whether you're doing a show like this one or the fox news primetime shows that have more of an editorial voice or a straight news show. a big part of this job is breaking bad news to your viewers. uncomfortable news, and there are definitely potential costs that. but that actually is our job. what you just heard were anchors at fox choosing to promote the big lie because they're afraid if they don't, their audience will leave them for an outlet that is even further to the right. these hosts and their bosses frankly do not have enough respect for their viewers to
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simply just tell them the truth about the results of an election and trust they're mature enough to handle it. even though privately in their emails and in hannity, ingraham, and tucker's group chat, they were more than eager to share the truth about how ridiculous they knew the stolen election claims and the people pushing them were. in private, tucker carlson called the claims ludicrous and totally off the rails. sean hannity called rudy giuliani and sydney powell f'ing lunatics. dana perino called it nuts. a producer lou dobbs who was fired, by the way, called it complete bs. maria bartiromo called one of powell's emails kooky, and rupert murdoch called rudy giuliani's claims really crazy stuff and damaging. at one point, tucker told laura ingraham in their group chat, sidney powell is lying, by the way, i caught her. it's insane.
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she responded, she's a complete nut. no one will work with her. ditto with rudy. another time, fox executive bill salmon commented on fox coverage of supposed election fraud to one of the people who made fox's accurate election night call for arizona and then lost his job because of it. in that email, salmon wrote, quote, it's remarkable how weak ratings make good journalists do bad things. and yet they kept airing these false claims. and hosting these kooks day after day, even as dominion sent fox literally 3,682 emails in real time asking, pleading, demanding that fox stop spreading lies about their company. fox's corporate representative confirmed that those emails were widely circulated within the company, and yet, they persists and the culmination of those lies was the violent assault on our nation's capitol by people who believed that fox news is the news. hours after the assault, tucker
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carlson called donald trump, he called him a demonic force, a destroyer. the disrespect for fox viewers is so thorough that those lies continue to this day, just look at what tucker was doing just last night. hours, just hours after he and his employer were exposed. >> there are so many unanswered questions. some of them lingering. how, for example, did senile hermit joe biden get 15 million more votes than his former boss, rock star crowd surfer barack obama? results like that would seem it defy the laws of known physics and qualify as a miracle. was the 2020 election a miracle? honestly, we don't know and don't expect to get an answer tonight. >> joining me now is charles blow, "new york times" columnist, and charlie sykes, editor at large of the bulwark and an msnbc contributor. maybe the reason tucker carlson hat that credulous look on his face all the time is because he really doesn't believe it. this is a guy who called for the
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firing of a reporter at fox, a straight news reporter who correctly fact checked a tweet, i think it was by lou dobbs, that mentioned dominion. he texts sean hannity, please get her fired. seriously, what the f, the stock price is down. not a joke. maybe that's why he has that look. the idea they need to respect the audience by lying to them. >> obviously, he despises the audience. he's willing it lie to the audience for ratings. look, i mean, this filing is an arsenal full of smoking guns. but i'm really glad you highlighted that particular moment because, you know, that is such a tell that you had a reporter that tried to do a fact check and tucker carlson, who knew that it was all lies and had been lying to his audience and afraid to tell the audience the truth, tries to get her fired. look, this threat is an -- this lawsuit is an existential threat
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to fox news and it ought to be. it certainly exposes what we thought we knew, but as i wrote this morning, it is unpeeling an onion of hypocrisy and bad journalistic practice and i think they're going to pay big for this. >> do you think they're going to pay big for it? the thing is, charles, there's a thing where -- >> in money. >> i think so, right, but with the audience, right, they're like the parent that lets you eat cookies for dinner. their audience likes it because they're telling them what they want to hear. the hard job in news is to say, your guy lost. you know, even if you don't like that fact, that's the job. and they are literally saying, we can't do that, they'll watch newsmax instead of us. >> that's exactly right. you have it exactly right there. this is audience capture, they're afraid of their audience and they despise their audience. i'm sorry to interrupt. we're both charles. >> okay, charles. >> i think one of the things we have to delineate here is the
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thing that fox likes to mix up. which is there's no such thing as fake news. if something is gnaw true, it's not news. the same could be said for journalists, right? if you're not performing journalism and performing propaganda, you're not in fact a journalist, but they like to mix that up. not everything on fox news is false. and that becomes the trojan horse for the things that are false. because if you mix in a few shows that are straight news that kind of try to tell it down the middle, it actually disguises the things that are in fact false. they're in fact conspiracy theories and people look at it and say the inverse of what they say in courtrooms. i hear one line in the courtroom, now everything the person said is called into question. in news it works the opposite way, which is they hear some things that are true and say, well, some of these other things must also be true because that other thing they said was true. so they are very clever about mixing in some things that may be true in an avalanche of
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things that are suspect or may be false, and it gets their viewers who want to believe the things that support their biases to believe in those things. so what you're seeing in those text messages are exactly that. massive effort at manipulation, unethical in every possible way, but they know it works. and their viewers want to believe it. >> and the thing is, i think about, charlie, sort of how rush limbaugh kind of changed the entire game in terms of the way the right receives information and news. everything he said he presented it as this is not only news but the news that the fake news is not telling you. fox does it somewhat differently. tucker carlson looks quizzical and says i'm just asking questions and puts it that way, but he's channeling things that he's ridiculing in emails. i was fascinated by the group chat that he and laura ingraham and hannity have. in these conversations one of the things that was talked about
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was sidney powell had a source, she had a source for her supposed, you know, knowledge that the election was stolen that is a person that said that they get this information, there it is, before her appearance, she cited evidence provided by a person that described herself as internally decapitated, capable of time travel in a semiconscious state, and who speaks to the wind. they're mocking this woman behind the scenes, and then putting her on their shows and saying, we're just asking questions. >> yes, because she was useful to them because they wanted to create a safe space for their audience. i think this is the point that needs to keep coming back to. this is what the audience wanted. this is what the audience demanded. this was part of the culture that rush limbaugh created, to create an alternative reality that would always reaffirm your priors, and would insulate you from anything that was uncomfortable. so after the election, people
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like tucker carlson and the other executives of fox realized if they told people the truth about the election, they would lose listeners, they would lose ratings, they would lose stock price. they would be at a competitive disadvantage to the newsmaxes and oans of the world so they decided to put people like sidney powell on to spread the lie. and what's interesting is how it has all laid out in the court filings in just spectacular granular detail. >> it is a fascinating read, if you have the time. it's worth reading it. it's about 120 pages. charles, the thing is, by the time january 6th happened, if you trained your audience to believe the news has told you the election was stolen, because that's important. this platform is powerful. if you allow someone to lie on your platform or you just make up things and say you're saying it with the news voice. and so they do that, they get all the way to january 6th, then
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they're frantically texting trump's family saying please make him stand down, and won't put him on the air. trump tries to call into lou dobbs who is one of the people who started this, and they won't put him on the air. and so they're mad at people like neil cavuto who is in the background and bret baier, and his colleagues are getting mad amthem, but they themselves wouldn't put trump on the air because they saw physically on the tv what they had done. >> exactly, and they knew how dangerous it was. but, there's a lot of collateral damage in fox's wake here in the service of profit. not just the company in the main but also each one of those anchors is making a ridiculous amount of money doing precisely what they are doing. and that has blinded everyone to any sort of journalism ethics. every news organization has some sort of ethical handbook.
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it varies slightly, but they overlap a tremendous amount. people like me who went to journalist school, you have to take classes. this violations every single piece of that all for the sake of making money. and also, i will add this one last thing. i love how you keep calling her laura ingraham. it must be shade. >> ain't that her name? that's how it's spelled. i will say one last thing as well. the idea that not just the boss of fox news, the president of fox news, but that the guy who owns news corp. is weighing in on the editorial and that they're making a collective decision what the voice of the whole network will be, that's terrifying for anyone who has ever worked in the news business. that does not happen. i have worked at more than one news operation. that ain't how that's supposed to work. they're not supposed to thel them what to put on the air. if you're watching fox, maybe you want to be fooled and you enjoy it. understand, what they're doing, they don't even believe it.
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thank you very much. and thank you for hate watching laura ingraham if you're out there. >> coming up, there is still more to talk about, about the dominion lawsuit, including the potential legal ramifications for fox news. charlie sykes affirmed that. we'll discuss when "the reidout" continues after this. satisfied with their bed? maybe it's because you can adjust your comfort and firmness on either side. your sleep number setting. to help relieve pressure points and keep you both comfortable all night. and now, save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. ends monday.
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now is to the time to take our city back from the violent criminals in the streets and the white collar criminals in the office suites. if you're a trump voter and you suspect this election was stolen, was rigged, you're on to
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something. and if the tech companies above all that did it. >> the dominion software system has been tagged as one allegedly capable of flipping votes. >> the dominion software, i know that there were voting irregularities. tell me about that. >> that's to put it mildly. >> it should come as no surprise to you that the overwhelming support for the big lie and the 2020 election conspiracy theories coming from fox news hosts has been nothing but a performance for their audience, bs to keep them from going somewhere else to get their fix. was it defamation? the nearly 200-page brief released by dominion voting systems shows fox not only repeatedly promoted these false claims but they did so knowing it was all a lie. and while such admissions probably won't cost them any viewers because let's face it, they're getting the lies they want to hear, the defamation lawsuit filed by dominion is asking for an eye-popping $1.6 billion in damages. in an amended counterclaim,
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attorneys for fox news claim this is nothing more than an assault on the first amendment. they write, quote, fox news network did what any responsible media outlet would do, report on the biggest story of the day and present news making interviews with the new makers themselves. to our knowledge, they did not include a winking smiley face emoji. joining me is jessica levenson. thank you. welcome to the show. the first amendment reply, what do you make of it? >> i'm so glad you led with that because i actually teach the first amendment, and one of the things we talk about is one of the purposes of the first amendment is to have a market place of ideas where you have this robust exchange of a variety of ideas, people disagree, people fight about it. and then the truth rises to the top. and part of how that can happen is actually to get the disinformation, the lies, out of the marketplace, to prove why they're wrong.
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one of the tools we have to do that is defamation law. when people say, defamation law threatens the first amendment, actually, i would say it supports one of the reasons behind the first amendment. let's think about the other reasons behind the first amendment. one is self-governance. if we're to truly be an informed electorate, we need real information to hold our representatives accountable. this idea that we're chilling speech, i would say no, it's the opposite of that. allowing us to have an ecosystem where we flourish in disinformation, that's not supporting our key purposes behind the first amendment. >> so in the lawsuit, dominion is asking for summary judgment which i'm going to ask you to explain in a moment. but they're also saying based on falsity, actual proven falsity about these major claims. number one, that they had a software installed in their machines to flip votes. number two, that they were technically owned by a company smalled smartmatic, when they're
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not owned by, and they were founded by a venezuelan company to help steal the election for hugo chavez who is dead, and number three, they were giving bribes essentially to politicians who would allow them to steal the election. all of these things were provably false and they sent 3600 plus emails telling fox news and all the various shows doing these various segments about these things on the shows that they were lies. is it enough to have been told by the company that you're talking about that these aren't true for that to be defamation? or is all of the internal snarking about how crazy these claims were enough to prove that they were defamatory, they knew it was wrong and said it anyway? >> so, that's the key. and you just really actually stated the legal standard here, which is when we're talking about public figures or public groups and there's a claim of defamation, you don't just need to show that something is false, that you uttered something false that could harm somebody's reputation. but what you also need to show
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is that it was made with the requisite state of meantime. you know it's false or you recklessly disregard the falsity. frankly that's why i think this is one of those really rare but strong first amendment cases. because you have a lot of information and you just brought some of it up, some of it came out in the filings, that indicates in fact they did know about the falsity of the statement. there was an awareness, and they went forward with it anyway. i know they're trying to claim this was just a newsworthy matter and we're just informing the public. there is some limited protection when it comes to newsworthiness, but you can't wrap yourself in the first amendment if you know that you're publishing false statements. and it could harm somebody's reputation. >> i mean, the reality is nothing would be more newsworthy than if a voting machine company had the ability to take votes and flip them. i remember there was chatter about this in 2000. you know, from democrats who were worried that was happening
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in florida. there was no news organization saying yeah, that happened. there was mostly debunking of that so that people understood that the things that went wrong in florida had nothing to do with that. this is unprecedented for an entire news organization from the owner of the company that owns them, from rupert murdoch on down, to assert something they could have googles and knew it was false. thank you very much. this case is fascinating. >> still ahead, a new documentary series takes us inside rudy giuliani's rise to power in new york city, and his stunning fall from grace, as trump's number one legal lackey. satisfied with their bed? maybe it's because you can adjust your comfort and firmness on either side. your sleep number setting. to help relieve pressure points and keep you both comfortable all night. and now, save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. ends monday.
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than insurance offered? call the barnes firm now to find out. yoyou ght t beurprpris on a bright winter day, home of prosecutor rudy giuliani was inaugurated at the 107th mayor of new york. his son andrew by his side, he exhorted new yorkers to help him make dramatic changes. >> the airue of fear has had a long enough reign. the period of doubt has run its course. >> that was a clip from the msnbc films documentary when the truth isn't truth, the rudy giuliani story. which apparently includes clips of me talking about the former new york mayor. the film details how giuliani was elected after taking part in direct unabashed racism. in case you don't remember, the 1992 riots in new york were some of the biggest in history with as many as 10,000 demonstrators
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blocking traffic, destroying private property, and assaulting reporters and bystanders, according to the cato institute. the most demonstrators weren't just any new yorkers. they were nearly all white, off-duty new york city police officers. demonstrating against new york's first black mayor, david dinkins, who had called for a civilian complaint review board to oversee the police in response to police brutality claims. not only was the crowd violent, but it was virulently racist with officers chanting the n-word, and where was rudy? in the center of the mayhem egging on the crowd. >> rudy seems to have made the decision to embrace the sort of racism that a lot of his party believed in. >> the reason the morale of the police department of the city of new york is so low is one reason and one reason alone. david dinkins.
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>> so in case anyone was surprised by the giuliani that appeared during the trump era, you shouldn't have been. he was never america's mayor. he was always the mayor of the 1992 police riots. as the document points out, it's really not hard to see a difference between the mostly white police officers storming new york city hall and the ones who stormed the capitol. this has always been who rudy is. joining me is reverend al sharpton, president of the national action network. i find ways to hang out with you every day. but let's talk about rudy because that's the rudy giuliani i knew. and the rudy giuliani that emerged on 9/11 was to be the opposite of the one that i as a young new yorker was used to. the rudy giuliani leading that essentially police race riot, how did that, which was the one that most black new yorkers understood, how did that one never become a nationally known thing? >> well, not only did rudy
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giuliani lead the '92 riot, race riot of police off duty that stormed city hall, with the first black mayor and blaming him for all kinds of things and really in many ways using white fear, he was the mayor for eight years. he was the mayor that amadou diallo shot at 41 times and hit 19, was killed. wouldn't even meet with black leadership, wouldn't talk about it. the riot you talked about was around civilians with the right to complain about back policing. if you look at rudy giuliani, it was really the playbook that donald trump took national. white fear, birtherism, obama's not really one of us, race tinged hysteria. that's who rudy giuliani was. i think that when 9/11 happened and he rose to the occasion
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because there was no one standing there, he ended up back to the rudy he was, which we saw with steroids under the trump era. he's the rudy that we see now as the rudy he always was. he just had power in new york for eight years to really do some of the worst damage to our police accountability and racial kind of coming together that we had when david dinkins tried to govern with the gorgeous musaying we could try to make the city work. >> and what's interesting, when i think of rudy giuliani, i think of patrick doors mon, when he said he's no alter boy, he was literally an alter boy. the amadou diallo situation, the situation where he wouldn't visit a man in the hospital after he was beaten and sodomized by police, it turned out they never said it's giuliani time, but giuliani time became a thing we talked about. on 9/11, you said this on "morning joe" and it's important
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so i would love for you to talk about it again. what giuliani did on 9/11, first, he was just doing his job as mayor, but he also seemed to see in it an opportunity for himself to shine shortly thereafter and he used it to try to run for president. >> he used 9/11 for rudy. it was never a cause of restoring anything for anyone other than rudy. it was narcissism at its best. and that's why when he got the glory, he became who he was. it was only giving cleg lights to the character of who he was. he used that to propel himself in national politics, ran for president, and failed miserably. and in many ways, he became the forerunner of donald trump. donald trump was educated in how to deal with racial politics by rudy giuliani. who had also questioned the race for mayor when he ran the first time and lost against dave
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dinkins. same tactics we saw in trump, including january 6th, as you properly put, was really a replay of the police riot. this was rudy's playbook and that's why i think this documentary is important. >> yeah, i think he had one electoral vote when he ran for president. in the modern era, the one thing that did surprise me as well as he knew donald trump is that he never got paid. he never thought i need to get paid by this guy up front. he knew exactly who donald trump was and then he humiliated himself. this is a former prosecutor. he was a federal prosecutor and then he just became a complete joke. were you surprised at what a weak lawyer he turned out to be? >> i was surprised he had no shame, i mean, to have a press conference saying he was going to be at the four seasons and it's a landscape place. have you no shame? it showed how low he would go to try to just raise his profile and remain relevant.
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it's really tragic unless you understand and then you understand that there was no shame in him. >> yeah. i agree with you on that. reverend al sharpton, thank you very much. >> when truth isn't truth, the rudy giuliani story, begins this sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc and streaming on peacock. >> still ahead, how senator john fetterman's candidness about his clinical depression is helping normalize conversations about mental health. we'll be right back.
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thousands of children are waiting. senator john fetterman's battle with clinical depression, some of us are reminded disclosing one's mental health issues used to be a career ending. that was the case for thomas eagleman, a vice presidential nominee in 1972. he's the one you see on the left with george mcgovern celebrating their candidacy for vp and president at the democrat, national convention. eagleton, the public would later learn, had been hospitalized three times for depression and underwent electroshock therapy during two of this stays. here he is addressing the public about the backlash. >> i read the headlines in the morning papers so i know it is of significance, the far greater significance than i originally thought. as i view myself, being a
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healthy person, i thought it was satisfactory to be a healthy person to run on that ticket. >> eagleton left the race 18 days after the revelations about his mental health. joining me now is former u.s. senator barbara boxer who along with dianne feinstein was elected to the u.s. senate from california in 1992, and rick wilson, former republican strategist and cofounder of the lincoln project. senator boxer, i want to start with you because the history of this is mr. eagleton wasn't the first person that had mental health issues. he was just the first to disclose it. he was forced out because it was going to come out before. but there was this kind of idea in politics back in those days when there weren't a lot of women in politics but the men in politics had to be a certain kind of macho. you had ed muskie, who had snow on his face, snowflake tears and he was driven out of politics as if he was a horrible candidate
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for allegedly crying. what do you make of the fact now, currently, fetterman is going through is really evoking empathy, at least from people who aren't on fox news. >> yes. well, it's a big change. and it's really interesting because 1972 was the year that mcgovern turned on him and threw him off the ticket after saying he would be behind him 1,000 percent. i remember because i was running for my first race ever in local government. i lost that one, it was the only one. and i think this thing had a lot to do with it. it was just god awful. i was just so shocked when eagleton was kicked off the ticket, particularly after mcgovern said what he did. just bringing it to -- and i'll be quick on this, but i think it's important. we had two members of the senate, a republican and a democrat, had family members with severe mental issues. they teamed up and we passed the
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mental health parity act, which forced the insurance companies to cover mental health just as they did physical health. and now john fetterman just being open about this, it's amazing. frankly. it's good. >> absolutely. and rick, the thing about fetterman that i like, i will admit i like him as a candidate because he's such an everyman. what percentage of men over 50 have a fib, a lot? he leaned into it and said i'm going to be honest about it. he had a stroke, he's recovering. he's honest uthis recovery, about his dress code. he's just a regular guy. do you think this winds up falling into that bucket, or can he withstand or will he end up getting attacked as somebody who has been maybe too honest about his health issues and now this mental health piece or does that actually build a brand that i think is pretty strong about being relatable in terms of his
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challenges? >> yeah, i think this is a story that millions of americans relate to and understand. i think it's a story that hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pennsylvanians relate to and understand. he had a stroke. he's now suffering from the consequences of that, and working through the physical challenges and the depression that often follows, according to a lot of medical experts in this case. and look, we don't have many people in our public lives today who are willing to say, this is what i really am. they want you to see a carefully curated image. this is a guy who works in all. he's a guy who wears shorts in the snow. i don't love it, but he's got his own style. but his bravery, i'm a florida guy. that thought
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even if we have personal tragedies in our life or political tragedies like she oversaw the assassination of a very popular mayor in san francisco. she worked hard to get the assault weapons ban done for ten years. she deserves to have a few years to relax. and i have told her for years now, diane, it's wonderful afterwards. people want to hear your story. you can still be out there. so that's how i feel about it. so i think that's the right thing for her. in terms of the food fight, it will be a food fight. and i have to tell you, i had a tough one as well. and it's okay. you know, as long as everybody doesn't turn on the other person from the same party, that i don't abide by. i told them all, they all called
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me. keep it straightforward, on the issues why you're the best. so i'm excited for california. it's been a long time since we had that. >> absolutely. we have very little time left, but i'm going to give this to you, rick wilson. kamala harris in europe representing the u.s. representing the u.s.. do you feel the administration has used her enough? i feel like she is an asset they could be used more. >> i think whatever the weird chemistry is between the vp's office and the rest of the white house, she is an underutilized asset and a lot of the hesitation about her, like, why is she doing more -- it's like a self reinforcing product. if you are doing, more they'd be using her for more. it's a tough spot. >> it's a tough job. i would like to see more of her this year. let's see if that happens. barbara rick are sticking around because it's almost time to play our favorite game. who won the week. that is next. that is next head to help relieve snoring. so, you can both stay comfortable all night.
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to play our favorite game. >> there is the. music who won the week back with me are former senator -- and rick wilson. i'm gonna start with you, who won the week? >> i think the fetterman family won the week. john and gisele had to destroy a lot of courage to do this. and to -- i think they were a good moral example for the week. >> amen. senator -- who won the week? >> reverend sharpton in florida. who stood up to a power hungry
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governor in a state were truth goes to die. i was in year -- i saw an elderly black woman have to walk to the back of the bus. we cannot wipe out history. good for you, as sharp, in for continuing to be that voice of interest. >> i actually -- we are alike on this one, senator. my choices for the. i often criticize my former state that i used to live in. but florida fought back this week. i am so proud of you, florida, for standing up to your governor in his attempt to wipe out history. former senator, barbara boxer, and rick wilson, thank you. that's tonight's reidout. keep fighting, florida, all in with chris hayes starts now. fighting, florida, all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight, on all in. >> nobody like the -- voting systems. nobody. >> fox pushing election lies while privately expressing doubt. whole thing guess they themself carl, nuts, to maintain the ratings. and punishing their own journalist for telling the

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