one little city of bakhmut, and they've gained some territory, but a year an, they're fighting for inches, losing thousands of troops. ukraine, on the other hand, has been consistently underestimated. they can apply a combined, arm artillery, infantry, armor together. they can't come down offensive operations. all sorts of different criticisms, and you think that after a year, would probably calibrated better our analysis of both russian capabilities, and ukrainian capabilities, but thus far, we haven't. that's just one of, you know, probably a couple of a handful of critical shortfalls we've had. the other one is that our rhetoric often doesn't match it out -- the kind of support we offer. we have flowery rhetoric indicating that this is a geopolitical crisis that is essential for the u.s. to help ukraine win. but the same time, we are deeply reluctant to provide ukraine support. the biden administration gets a lot of credit for the things it does. but frankly, i'd like to focus on the things that has fallen

short on. matching its rhetoric, with the kind of support ukrainians to win this war, not just for ukraine, but for the u.s. and u.s. national security. >> we're gonna watch then very closely, president biden arrives in the region on monday. he will be delivering an important speech on tuesday. we'll see if any of that changes. colonel, may we not be talking about this and a year, or at least be talking about it as history, retired lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, is the former director of european foreign affairs at the national security council. he's the author of the important book, here right matters. an american story. should, ahead more on the war in ukraine as we approach the one year anniversary another hour of velshi, live from kyiv, begins right now. begins right now >> good morning to you, it is saturday, february the 18th, welcome to our new home. a 10 am and 11 am eastern, our show is celebrating three years

on the air this weekend. we thank you for watching us, this and every weekend. i'm ali velshi, and as you can see i'm not in new york, i'm in kyiv, the capital of ukraine. where it is now at 6 pm, and it is dark. it has been nearly one year since russia's unprovoked invasion of this country. i was in ukraine last spring, in lviv, in the west of the country, i'm back now to see what's changed, what stay the same, and what's next for this war, for this country, and for the global fight for democracy that ukrainians want the world to understand, that this war is a critical part of. one thing that remains the same since last year, is the fact that at the skies continue to be a difficult place. russia continues to rain terror from the skies in the form of missiles, rockets, airstrikes, and drones, both near the battlefield in the east, and far from the front in places like lviv, and right here, and the capital city, kyiv. something that is very evident, a raid sirens that have become a part of everyday life here. there are multiple air raid sirens each day, and while most ukrainians have come to live with those sirens, they hear them, they acknowledge them,

and then they largely continue on with their the day. for my team and me, if an arid sirens go off during the show, we will need to leave this location to go to a more secure place. so if that does happen, my friend and colleague, alex witt, has been standing by for the last hour in new york to pick up coverage until i'm all said and saved to rejoin you. she still continues to do that, and i thank you for that, alex. something else that's evident, no matter who you talk to here in ukraine is while much of the west views of this as nearing the one year anniversary of russia's invasion, on friday, ukrainians consider this to be almost at the ninth year. in february of 2014, russia invaded crimea, illegally annexing the peninsula, and then in april of that year, russia invaded don bask, in eastern ukraine, where world war i style trenches and warfare has been technically going on ever since then. and right now, that fighting is focused along the front in the east, not far from where it was, back in 2014. presently centered around the town of bakhmut, which vigilance kate mention during

his address to congress, and now ruin a city which has been a bloody fighting for the past several months. despite the tremendous losses from both sites in the battle for bakhmut, particularly for russia, which has been trying, and failing to capture that city for months, only slight military significance when it hold great political importance, especially for vladimir putin. because taking bakhmut, would be the first significant gain of any kind for russia since last summer. and now, despite ongoing reports that russia is on the verge of capturing the city of bakhmut, the head of the russian align wagner mercenary group says that's not the case. telling russia lawyers that he did not expect the city to fall before march or april. that's a tiny little town that the russians have been trying to take, and the ukrainian has been fighting. off the wagner group, by the way, which is doing most of the fighting in bakhmut, is essentially a private militia force for hire under russian

control. prigozhin is a prominent pro putin figure. but prigozhin has been outspoken of his criticism of the kremlin, and russia's military performance in ukraine, while taking up any minimal gains, or talking up any minimal gains that his once wanted wagner forces make. these schism's have begun to form between wagner and the kremlin, according to u.s. officials. wagner forces have been doing much of the fighting for russia in and around bakhmut, employing a brutal strategy of sending more, and more men to die. mainly untrained and newly recruited russian convicts, in order to make minute gains. the british ministry of defense estimates that wagner's casualty rate is as high as 50%, which is what happens when you send poorly trained troops to fight a war that they don't care about, or bill even, against the people who are fighting for their land and their democracy. and while the white house said late friday that wagner has

suffered 30,000 casualties, including about 9000 deaths, out of the roughly 50,000 troops under their command, overall, russia has suffered catastrophically for this invasion. with the chair of the u.s. chief of staff general mark milley revealing at the end of january that the u.s. estimates that russia has suffered quote, significantly over well 100,000 casualties in this war. on friday, the british defense ministry said that russia has quote, likely suffered up to 200,000 casualties, including as many as 60,000 deaths. and the british defense secretary said on bbc this week, that nearly two thirds of russia's tanks have been destroyed, or broken. like these tanks you see behind me. russia's combat effectiveness has been potentially depleted by at least 40%, and fully 97% of the entire russian army is in ukraine. ukraine, also continues to suffer serious losses, both soldiers and civilians.

norway's defense chief revealing at the end of january, estimates that ukraine has suffered at least 100,000 casualties, and 30,000 civilian deaths. 30,000 civilian deaths for a country that didn't want this war, but will fight it to the brutal end. and while russia continues to suffer tremendously while trying to capture bakhmut and other areas along the front, ukraine is using a significant amount of ammunition and other military assets in order to keep russian forces at bay, and then flip those losses on the russian military. this comes as the u.s. is expected to announce another large military aid package for ukraine. a current senior u.s. official, and a former u.s. official tell nbc news that in addition to potentially ten billion dollars in aid to help the ukrainian government function, there will be more military. be more military

>> we'll have this announcement to coincide with president biden's trip to pull in this week, to commemorate the one year, or nine year, anniversary of this war. but something not expected to be included in that new aid package or in any immediate future aid package is ukraine's long desired fighter jets. they want the f-16's. as i mentioned at the top, unable to make any gains of significance on the ground, russia continues to employ a brutal and barbaric strategy of attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure, like power plants from the skies above us, trying to destroy the ukrainian peoples will and resolve using those attacks to invoke terror. it's another russian strategy that continues to fail in its attempt to break the will of the ukrainian people. however, it is succeeding in causing death and destruction. and that threat is why ukraine continues to request help in keeping its skies safe. joining me now is an apple bottom. she was a pulitzer prize -winning history, i'm a staff writer for the atlantic. a senior fellow with the johns hopkins school of advanced international studies, and the

argora and city. what is the author of so many important books, including twilight of democracy, the seductive lore of authoritarianism, red famine, someone's war on ukraine, and iron curtain, the crushing of eastern europe, 1944. to 1956. there may be no one was greater specialty in what is happening here. and, thank you for being with us this morning, this evening in ukraine. i have to ask you know, a year in, what you see happening as we look at the situation in ukraine. >> so, i'm at the munich security conference, which is an annual event. there are ukrainians, americans, members of all the nato alliance here, there is an extraordinary show of solidarity. one that was not all predicted a rico. i was here exactly on the stay a year ago. it was three days before the war started. there was doubt. nobody believes ukraine would survive. nobody believes zelenskyy would still be president by now.

but here we are. it's a very, you know, it's a very difficult war to assess, because on the one hand, what's been achieved to some extraordinary and unexpected, and yet, there's still so much further to go. i mean, this war will end when russia has understood it was a mistake. that means we need to get to that point, and that means ukraine needs to take back its territory, and needs to convince russia it can't win. we aren't quite there yet. >> i'm curious about that. when you say we aren't quite there yet, because one of the things vladimir putin said a year ago was that one of his stated goals was to stop the expansion of nato, particularly of ukraine, becoming a nato country. since then, to other countries that didn't have an interest in joining nato have announced they'd like to, and that might actually happen. the likelihood of vladimir putin invading a nato country, or even sending a missile into

a nato country, seems lower now that they've got most of their military in ukraine right now. you are saying that that message hasn't gotten through. why is that? why does vladimir putin not look at this and say, this is an abject failure for russia? >> so, this was never about nato. that was a lie he told to fuel our security community and to convince us not to help ukraine. this was always about him. it was about his vision of a reconstructed soviet union, of a new russian empire, and it was also always about his desire to destroying the forces of democracy and liberalism and open society that he saw develop in ukraine. which he perceived as a threat to him, personally. he is somebody who has a lot of nostalgia for the soviet union, for that period. he is somebody who sees democratic language, democratic activism, and of course, the kinds of democratic revolution they had in ukraine as a threat

to him. so, this has always been about crushing ukraine and crushing that movement. he hasn't achieved that. he has attached a lot of his prestigious to that. there is a lot of doubt about it, around him. we know the russian business community and the security community are not 100% behind this war. he personally believes has power is connected to winning it. so, he has not yet been convinced that he won't win. there are bacterial conversations, and we know he is not that stage yet. >> so, that is why i was going to ask you. what is the thing, then, that convinces him, in other words, because the world is looking for what is the next step? what is the off ramp? is there an off ramp? is there an exit for vladimir putin, and what does that look like, short of taking the territories that he invaded ukraine to take? >> so, we are now in a realm of black swan events. we don't know what will happen,

what is really happening inside the russian military. you mentioned already the extraordinary casualties. way out of scale, way beyond what russia suffered in the afghan war, which was so devastating. beyond what anybody can imagine. we're talking 200,000 casualties, dead and wounded. so, he needs to get beyond that. he needs to begin to think about what will change the situation. >> -- >> sorry, there's a lot of noise behind me. >> you are at the munich security conference, and important conference, i wish the vice president of the united states has set now you can't -- russia has committed crimes against humanity in ukraine, something you have made an important point of discussing. thank you for your time this morning, as always. for us, afternoon and evening, and applebaum it's a staff writer at the atlantic. she's the author of many important books. many were written some years ago, and are important to breathe again. the one i will point you to ease the twilight of democracy,

the select stuck to floor of authoritarianism. a remarkably important book right now. and, thank you for joining us. still ahead, especially -- a special edition of the bubble she banned book club, winter killed by volusia -- and a celebration of my cranium identity, but i will turn right now by a member of ukrainian parliament who has been in the thick of the conflict in the very start. enough was in the midst of helping citizens evacuate when she stopped talk to us by the side of the road here ago. >> it took us two hours just to -- we were standing in line, and couldn't buy gas for the car. and just now, when we moved out of the gas station, we or the airport of the city of -- which was bombarded by air by russian aviation. >> we've talked to inna sovsun many times to the past year. she spot for her country and navigated her own life as a public servant and the mother of a young child. she will join me in person just a few minutes to talk about how she is doing. what's coming next. hhh...

with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonase. all good. get ready to say those five little words. we're talking about... rooty tooty fresh 'n fruity yep, it's back. for a limited time. the six dollar rooty tooty fresh 'n fruity combo. 2 eggs, 2 bacon strips, and 2 fruit topped pancakes. only from ihop. ♪♪ whenever heartburn strikes, get fast relief with tums. its time to love food back. ♪tum, tum tum tum, tums♪ a man, his family, and his tractor, penny. these are the upshaws. and this is their playground. there's a story in every piece of land, run with us on a john deere tractor and start telling yours. in one second, sara yes! will get a job offer somewhere sunnier.

relocating in weeks. weeks? yeah, weeks. gotta sell the house. don't worry, sell to opendoor, and move on your schedule. yes! request a cash offer at opendoor.com #1 isn't a status earned overnight. it's earned in every wash, and re-earned every day. tide. america's #1 detergent.

there are some things that go better...together. like your workplace benefits... and retirement savings. with voya, considering all your financial choices together... can help you be better prepared for unexpected events. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. the eagle has landed. voya. well planned. that's one small step for man...

hey, what's up? uh... houston... we have a situation. how did you get here? you're characters in our video game! video game? yeah, it's what we do with xfinity 10g. it's like, you know, the best network imaginable. what the heck is that? those are the bad guys. are they friendly? the 10g network, only from xfinity. >> joining me right here, alive one giant leap for mankind. and cave, is we're having a little reunion here is my old friend and colleague erin mclaughlin. we have known each other for years, we haven't seen each other in real life for a long time. but you and i were on tv together the night this war broke out. and in fact, i don't have my

control room has it but can we just go back to that night on what was february 24th here, osterburg 23rd for us in new york. just show a little bit of what aaron was doing on air that night. >> trying to keep people, trying to keep people from panicking in what is -- >> i just heard the first siren has just gone off and i've been told by city officials that that indicates that this is the city under attack, that again is the first time we have heard sirens in at the capital of kyiv. >> of course, moments later you were in your protective gear because things had changed in the city was being targeted. in that tonight, when we heard those sirens together for the first time, a lot has changed. you hear the sirens now sometimes, several times a day in the city. there are people sort of climbing on these captured russian tanks behind us. what's change in the last year? >> moving about the city in the last few days, what is striking

is the amount of traffic in the street, the mom of businesses open, the amount of people going about their normal everyday lives despite missile and drone strikes that hit the capital, this is by the power outages. people are persisting. we hear about that ukrainian resistance. at the same time though, people here are absolutely traumatized. this morning, i was speaking to a woman that i met in the days prior to the invasion. she had went out to a training site to learn how to fire a weapon, basic first aid, given all of those dire western warnings that were coming from washington. they were not falling on deaf ears here in kyiv, they are preparing for the worst. she was there with her teenage boys, i asked her, are you scared for your boys? and she looked at me and she said, you know, we're all gonna die, the importance is do you die with dignity or not. a year later, sitting down with her this morning, having a cup of coffee, i asked her the same

question. and she said yes, i'm scared. she's lost her job, she's lost her home, one of her sons is now in france, her world has completely changed. she's scared to unpack her things because she doesn't know what's going to happen next. that look of fear is evident across her face and it was truly workable. >> it's a lot of things, when the world sort of forgets about us sometimes or doesn't think about it, but this range of emotion going on, it is channeled to these soldiers on the front line, people who are not part of a military, people of civil defense, or people who are talking, about regular people who've gone military or first aid training. have you noticed a difference in the degree of resolve to see this through to the end? there are no ukrainians are spoken to in the last five days who were talking about giving up land, or figuring out some surrender or negotiating way out of this. >> yeah, that's right. their world may have completely changed, their country may have completely changed, but there is that resolve to continue fighting. i think an opinion poll just

came out saying that 80% want to fight, and fight for crimea, not just ukraine, but also crimea. that sentiment is certainly echoed in the conversations that i've been having with people that i've come to know over the last year. >> thanks for reporting all different, it's good to see you. we'll be together for the week and stay safe. >> thank you for having me. >> erin maclachlan mild friend in ukraine. we're gonna fulton county, georgia, where there's been a major update in what if trump investigations. you're watching velshi in a brand-new site, we'll be right back. back you work to protect it. the subaru solterra electric suv. subaru's first all-electric, zero-emissions suv. (man) we've got some catching up to do. (woman) sure do. (vo) built to help you protect the environment as you explore it. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru.

when you shop wayfair, you get big deals for your home - every day. so big, we'll have you saying... am i a big deal? yeah you are, because it's a big deal, when you get a big deal. wayfair deals so big that you might get a big head. because with savings so real... you can get your dream sofa for half the price. wayfair. it's always a big deal. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ >> welcome back to velshi, live,

from kyiv, ukraine. we're gonna talk more about what's going on here on the ground, shortly. i want to turn our attention though, to a moment, back to the united states. to fulton county, georgia, specifically. there's big movement this week in the investigation that is widely considered to be the most illegally perilous to

donald trump. special grand jury was convened to investigate efforts by donald trump and his allies to overturn his 2020 election loss in georgia. and this week, a judge ordered the release of part of that special grand jury's report. according to the report, the grand jury found evidence of possible perjury or, by at least one witness. but no evidence supporting donald trump's claims of widespread voter flocked. the report indicated that date grandeur egypt make recommendations about indictment, but no identifying information was released publicly. so we don't know who they thought may have lied to the grand jury, and who they think might be indicted. still, there was a new york times op-ed, written by three experts on the fulton county investigation, on the january six committee's investigation, and georgia state law, who see real danger for donald trump, and the country. they wrote, quote, we need to prepare for a first and our 246 year history as a nation. the possible criminal prosecution of a former president.

if mr. trump is charged, it will be difficult and at times even perilous, for american democracy. but it is necessary to deter him and others from future attempted coups, and quote. crucially, donald trump is not just a former president, he's running, an act of reelection campaign. trump got into the race early, perhaps hoping to hold off any challengers, but he got his first official challenger this week, when the former south carolina governor and trump's own former yuan and bassett are officially entered the race. nikki haley falls into a likely week and frankly, embarrassing category of republican. those who did not support donald trump in the 2016 primary, but then one ahead and join his administration anyway, and will now even try to wrestle the republican party away from trump. she's trying to do so without offending him too much. which sounds a lot like another likely trump challenger, his vice president, mike pence who is widely expected to jump into the race as well. and who is so desperate to avoid testifying about what happened on january six, worked

on trump literally sent a violent mob against him that he has vowed this week to fight a subpoena from the special counsel investigating the january 6th attack, even if he has to take that fight all the way to the supreme court of the united states. what a story! can't even believe the words of just that too. joining me now is longtime republican political strategist, stuart stevens, he's now a senior visor for the lincoln project. but he served as a chief shadow just for mitt romney's 2012 presidential campaign. he literally wrote the book on the strength of donald trump's falsehoods titled it was all a lie. how the republican party became donald trump. stuart, good morning to you, thank you for being with us. help me make sense of this. of how you be a republican in today's republican party. how, nikki haley, or mike pence, or mike pompeo, or larry hogan, or home ever run for office while trying to keep donald trump at arms length, and still

talk about the fact that the parties got to get away from donald trump. >> yeah, i mean i wouldn't put all those in the same category. i think larry hogan, who never endorsed trump's an outset with full disclosure, a former client of mine. it isn't a different category. i think, really, the issue is they're not trying to take the republican party, the rest of the, is in a different direction than donald trump. they want to replace donald trump, and that's different. they're not out there saying our party have gone in the wrong direction, they think, what are the arguments it gives trump? that he's become an electoral liability? that were not winning with him anymore? they think that someone like nikki haley, i think she finds him a sort of tacky, that it's in a static absorption. but there is no one out there saying, except for larry hogan, that they will not support donald trump if he is a nominee.

so here's someone who attempted to overthrow the government of the united states, we know without a doubt, that he was supported by russia, and we have consequences of that that are playing out exactly where you're standing now. the second most important person in the house of representatives, marjorie taylor greene, would not be an office, not be in this position, we're not for donald trump, and she's a pro putin ally. she wants to cut off funding for ukraine. so, no one is saying that in the republican party is saying that we've made this terrible mistake. the republican party is what the republican party wants to be. arty wants t be >> let me ask. you make an interesting point. i'm glad you pointed out. larry hogan is in a separate compartment of republican. does a guy like larry hogan have any footing in a race like this? that's a guy like that get any traction, a republican who was never on his side, with donald trump? and hasn't needed to distance himself from donald trump?

are there enough who says hey, let's represent old-school republican values? >> it's basically hard to say no. really, there is not a sizeable anti trump movement in the republican party. there are some, independents, primarily, who voted republican who voted for joe biden last time. i think will vote for joe biden again. we should wrap our minds around the reality of this, because right now, donald trump is likely to be the republican nominee. pretty much every poll i've seen shows him beating joe biden. so, we have to start thinking, what does it mean to have someone who has attempted to overthrow the government before in power? if he's not held responsible? when i read the op-ed, which i thought was excellent, by far the greatest danger is not prosecuting trump.

if you allow all of this obvious election tampering to go unpunished, what sort of precedent heavyset? i think that there are things you do because they are right, not because what it would be the political consequences. the greatest danger for me, i, think is not recognizing the greatest danger. the republican party has become an autocratic movement? >> and as a state and stand in the country where they are fighting and autocratic nation trying to take over their democracy, it is poignant we remember that fact. stuart, thank you for being with us. stuart stevens is a senior adviser of the lincoln project, the author of it was all a lie, how the republican party became donald trump. i'll be on the ground here in ukraine all this coming weekend next weekend as well as we continue our special coverage. among the many important conversations we are planning for next weekend's, the former ukrainian president, petra for a shank though, and the current deputy prime minister, -- will join us.

will join us (cecily) what's up, einstein? (einstein) my network has gone kaput! (cecily) oh, you tried to save a buck on it? (einstein) i got what i paid for. not so smart. (cecily) well, there is a smarter way to save. (einstein) oh?! (cecily) switch to verizon. you'll get a new 5g phone, on them. (vo) yup, get the new samsung galaxy s23+, a watch and a tablet, on us. that's a value of up to $1900 (einstein) oh, i love that math! i'm switching! (vo) switch to verizon and get the new samsung galaxy s23+, watch and tablet all on us the network you deserve. the savings you want. verizon

research shows people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. did you know that liberty mutual custo— ♪ liberty mutual. ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ ♪ custom home insurance created for you all. ♪ ♪ now the song is done ♪ ♪ back to living in your wall. ♪ they're just gonna live in there? ♪ yes. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

i work hard, and i want my money to work hard too. so, i use my freedom unlimited card. earning on my favorite soup. aaaaaah. got it. earning on that éclair. don't touch it, don't touch it yet. let me get the big one. nope. - this one? - nope. - this one? - yes. - no. - what? - the big one. - they're all the same size. wait! lemme get 'em all. i'm gonna get 'em all! earn big with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. >> welcome back to this special

edition of velshi, live from ukraine. our brand-new permanent timeslot, during my time cover the russian invasion of the last year, x folk dozens of ukrainians about the situation on the ground, including, as you've noticed, several members of parliament who have stayed behind to fight for their country's freedom. one of those heroic individuals is enough -- a frequent guest on this show since the war began. i want to show you a video from last march, where she stopped along the side of the road to talk to us, to help the world they are witnessed and fully understand the atrocities that were taking place throughout ukraine. here she was, in the middle of helping ukrainian civilians flee westward to safety. i also then spoke with her again in early april. that time, it was in person, in the western city of lviv. literally hours after the world's first learned of the

horrors that russian forces had committed in the kyiv suburb of bucha. more than 300 ukrainians were massacred in that town, which was briefly under russian control. clear evidence of war crimes, showing rachel was targeting civilians. here is what inna had to say when i asked her about the horrific news we woke up to that morning. >> those are just sick people. i'm sorry to say, they are just sick. they need to be prosecuted, and justice needs to be done to the victims, one way or another. what has happened there is, i don't think we imagined that. that was actually taking place. we knew it was bad, but it was so much worse than we expected to see, and it was so painful. i think after what we have seen, the world cannot keep quiet. we cannot pretend this didn't happen. we cannot pretend that missiles will do the job. we have to ask for russia to be kicked out of the u.n., totally. it has no way to stay in the security council after this has happened. it needs to be full embargo, we

cannot continue funding this. >> it's been nearly a year since that conversation, but inna sovsun joins me once again. as she said, she is a member of ukraine's parliament. she is the vice chair of the whole opposition party. she is the former deputation -- deputy education minister of ukraine. and our special friend, martin. we met one year ago. it's nice to see you again, martin. >> hello. >> that was a difficult day that we met, but there was one happy parts. you had been reunited with your son. >> yeah. >> who had been separated for you for a while. >> for a while, over the springtime. he was in with a family in the west of ukraine, and that is where we drove to see you, in lviv. he has been here in kyiv since july. he is now back to school in kyiv. >> you are doing all your homework? >> yes, we do our homework at school, actually. not that. home >> at school, not at home. your mother was very concerned

that maybe when you wear it with her, you weren't doing all your maps. i think you are. >> yes, i am. >> good. well, thank you for being with us today. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for coming. >> the vice president of the united states, kamala harris, at the munich security conference, just said that russia has committed war crimes. in ukraine. this is something you and i talked about a year ago. crimes against humanity is the actual word that she used. these are sentiments, but there also needs to be legal implications for that. >> first of all, i think symbolic importance is still very big. as we approach this anniversary, if that's the wrong word to use, i think the importance, to recognize what we have been living through for the last year has been a crime, something that should have never happened, is something that is important for us to hear. truly, this has been big news over here in ukraine. everybody is talking about that. but also yes, we have been expecting for some legal

ramifications of that. we are calling for international tribunal to be established, to discuss these crimes, and also to have some verdicts. we want people to punish, to be punished for what they have done over here in ukraine and what they continue to be doing here every day. >> what do you think ends this war? how does it and right now? you have your boyfriend involved in this war. your father is involved in this war. as you pointed out to me, everybody in this country, in one way or another, is involved in this war. >> it did. my son has to go to the bomb shelter every time there is an air raid. so, we all are part of this big efforts to fight back. i wish i could say that there is a way to negotiate peace. trust me, i so much wished for him not to go to the bomb shelter every single day of his school year. but i don't see a way for that. what i'm afraid, with that, we cannot make a deal with putin, right? show me a single person on earth who could say okay, you make peace with him, you make a deal, and he will do what he

promises to do. as long as you cannot guarantee that putin will hold his end of the deal, any peace talks are useless, because they will just break whatever deal they will make. recently, president putin took over, said they were drafted minsk around greenland's, they were drafting them of the specific goal of never making them work. so, i think that is the whole thing to remember. unfortunately, for all of us, there is no peace talks to this war. it's a military and through this war, unfortunately. >> martin, you and your mother and i, we get to speak a lot. you and i don't get to speak. so, see that camera over there? >> yes. >> everybody can see you. tell us about what your date looks like when you go to school. what do you do at school? >> so, the reason that i go to school, my lesson starts at 9:00.

and while we wait for our lessons to start, we play in our gym, which is used for p.e. >> what do you do when there is an air raid? >> go to the bomb shelter. different classes have different bomb shelters. like, we have the changing room, where we change for outside p.e., extra lessons, like football or something like that. >> martin, thank you for being here. it's nice to see you again. maybe next year, we will see each other again, and there will be no air red sirens and then we're bomb shelters. >> i hope so. >> i hope so, my friend. thank you for being here. thank you for being with us. against you and i will continue to talk until this is over. >> yes, i hope. so. >> inna sovsun, a member of

parliament, and her young son and my friends, martin. today, we've got our meeting of the banned book club. we will be joined by marsha skrypuch, the author of winterkill, set right here in ukraine. decades ago, 1930's ukraine. it is a different dictator, but the same and the goal. ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good. something's happening at ihop. something... huge. ant-man and the wasp have arrived. spend $30 on your next visit to ihop and get a fandango movie ticket to see marvel studios: ant-man and the wasp: quantumania. nicorette knows quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like... just stop. go for a run. go for ten runs. run a marathon. instead, start small with nicorette, which will lead to something big.

sometimes, the lows of bipolar depression feel darkest before dawn. with caplyta, there's a chance to let in the lyte. caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. caplyta can help you let in the lyte. ask your doctor about caplyta. find savings and support at caplyta.com.

at bombas, we make the comfiest socks, underwear, and t-shirts that feel good, and most of all, do good. because when you purchase one, we donate one to those in need. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first purchase. bombas. (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is different than other money managers. and get 20% off your first purchase. (other money manager) different how? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our client's portfolios for their long-term goals. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right? (fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. >> kharkiv is a city in the northeast of ukraine. it's a country's second largest

city, after kyiv, where i am now. it's got a population of about one and a half million people. it's been under constant attack since the beginning of this war. kharkiv has had its share of troubles throughout recent ukrainian history. i want to take you back exactly 93 years, to february of 1930. a few kilometers outside of kharkiv, ukraine, near the russian border, there's a little farming village were a happy family lives. neil, the eldest child, is 12 years old. he has a chocolate brown horse, a crucifix hand carved by his great grandfather, and his mother's dish of rightly covered piece of the, or ukrainian easter eggs decorated with intricate beeswax designs. he sings. he tends to the fields with his siblings. you fits it and that ankle right across the road. one day, they welcome some relatives from canada. young alice and her father. they believe holy in the soviet dictator, joseph stalin's vision, and have come from overseas to make it a reality in any way they can.

but things just get worse from there. stolen and his cronies sees the families crops and their land, destroyed their town church, and eventually, kill neil's parents and his uncle. and many, many others. this is the plot of marsha skrypuch's novel, winterkill. it's the focus for velshi banned book club. well it's a historical fiction written for middle school aged children the holodomor, the brutal genocide, is inescapable fact. explains why ukrainians are as resilient as they are today. let me tell you a bit about the holodomor. in the early 19 twenties, the soviet dictator, stalin, conceived a plan to initiate rapid industrialization of the ussr, at any cost. the plan included forced agricultural collective is a shun, giving the soviet state control of all of ukraine's a bunted farms and lucrative grain exports. this is not a happy accident. ukraine had a history of

resistance to soviet rule, so it posed a threat to the regime. unsurprisingly, ukrainian farmers, called kulaks, they tried to resist. they were forced to surrender the land, forced to work on collective government farms and murdered. then came the hunger. the very people who provided threat to the ussr, to europe, to the entire world, starved to death. their own food was held back from them as the primary weapon in their own genocide. it's estimated that 30,000 ukrainian civilians have died in the last year because of this war. according to a study by the university of minnesota, during the holodomor, an average of 28,000 ukrainians died per day. the most detailed studies estimate the total number of people who died in the holodomor was roughly 3.9 million people. it's important to recognize that the holodomor was not an unfortunate byproduct of stalin's in tireless pursuits,

it was the calculated extermination of the ukrainian people. winterkill makes the intentional nature of that genocide clear. utilizing language that is appropriate for kids and frank imagery. the book is unflinching and relentless. the reader, like it's characters, cannot escape starvation or stolen's iron rule. quote, what would it take for stalin to realize it was his policies, not his so-called kulaks, who were the enemy of the people? end quote. between the stark descriptions of children looking from hunger and dark, assembly lines in kharkiv, it's a story of people who are not just set on survival, but set on maintaining their beloved culture. they collect traditional songs. they quietly could duck traditional funerals. they briefly face rushes shock workers to keep family air looms and smuggle outflows of the carnage. there is a clear -- in writing this book for children from a child's perspective, because the children of this country are

literally the future. it is incumbent upon them to tell the story. marsha skrypuch was wrapping a final edits for winter kill last year, as russia stormed ukraine once again. decades after the holodomor, with a new dictator, but with the same goal. prophetic, almost. it didn't take long for russia to ban the book altogether, right after the break, marsha skrypuch will join me to discuss this book. do not miss the special edition of the velshi banned book club, live from ukraine. fo rmula repairs hair. as well as the leading luxury bonding treatment. for softness and resilience, without the price tag. if you know... you know it's pantene.

age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv everything's changing so quickly.

now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. before the xfinity 10g network, we didn't have internet that let us play all at once. every device? in every room? why are you up here? when i was your age, we couldn't stream a movie when the power went out. you're only a year older than me. you have no idea how good you've got it. huh? what a time to be alive. introducing the next generation 10g network. i am thrilled to be joined by only from xfinity. the future starts now.

marcia script, author of numerous books, including today's velshi banned book club feature, winterkill. marsha, think you, thank you so much for being with us. i want to start with the premise for winterkill, you say that your book was inspired by your grandfather. tell me a bit about that, please. >> my grandfather was a member of the communist party in canada, and he had lost track of his mother and sister. he came before the first world war, so he joined the communist party to be able to go back to the soviet ukraine, to try to find his family. so, one of the main characters is alice, whose father it's a communist member and did go back to ukraine to help stalin with his plan, which a lot of communists of the time, who were canadian and american, thought sounded really good. because communism, honestly, it

sounds pretty darn good. he was denied, so he didn't go. but i just had to think, that was the inspiration for the book. what if he had gone over, and what if he had been caught in this hold machinery, and ended up being one of the people who helped implement stalin's plan to kill his own people, basically? >> one of the moments in the book that stayed with me was when one of the shock workers discovers a collection of traditional ukrainian songs. i just want to read a part of that, quote, the younger shock workers came out of the house, holding a stack of bound papers in his fist. what's this, he asked. just some notes, i said. it was much more than that, but i hoped he wouldn't figure it out. uncle illya and anti-polina have been compiling our compilations of cold folks songs. we had been looking for it. he struck a match and live the corner to make sure the whole thing burned. the other shock worker came out to watch.

quote, it's good to get rid of this backward ukrainian garbage, he said. you should stick to soviet songs. they are much better. the reason i wanted to read that is because preserving culture is a main theme, not just in winterkill, it's a main theme in this war, in ukraine right now. >> yes, it is. museums are being destroyed. books are being piled up and burned. it is just so devastating. that is what stalin did in the 1930s as well. he wasn't just wanting to destroy every single child, woman, and man who was ukrainian. he wanted to destroy the culture, and everything about it. he wanted to erase it, as if it never happened. as if there is no such thing as ukrainian. >> right now, the united states are grappling with what can and cannot be taught in schools. i want to read a passage that you wrote about, in winterkill, about soviet education. quote, comrade picture of not looked as tired as i felt as

she went up and down the aisles to give us back our essays. we were all supposed to write about one aspect of stalin's five year plan, and how remarks were based on our enthusiasm for the ideology. in other words, we'd be rewarded for how well we lied. end quote. considering the uptick in book banning and curriculum infringement, there's a lot of ties between what you wrote about what's going on today. >> there certainly is. nothing is, kids need to be exposed to all kinds of literature. if they are not, they won't be able to think for themselves. you have to be able to read things you agree with, that you disagree with, that's people don't want you to read, and the truth of it is good children's literature, by definition, is sober sieve. what i mean by that is anything that sticks with you for a long, long period of time, the things you remember reading as a kid, is because they upended the ideas that were being forced

upon kids from above. it never works that way. kids need to think. that is actually why i write for young people. they are much more open minded than adults. >> the dedication to winterkill reads, quote, to the memory of rhea climate, who was fierce in her pursuit of the truth. she makes a cameo in winter kill. why -- who is she and why did you dedicate your book to her? >> she was a real journalist at the time of the holodomor. there were many journalists, including walter guarantee of the new york times, who were paid by stalin to lie about what they were seeing. so, they would actually step over dead bodies as they were eating ice cream or something, and then write that the peasants, the ukrainian presence, or happy and fat and dancing in the street. but rhea clyman, a canadian journalist of polish jewish

heritage, who was completely different to that. she came to ukraine. she was able to actually travel all the way through ukraine and wrote the truth. it got her kicked out of the soviet union, but she also met a young girl in kharkiv when she was at a hotel in kharkiv named alice, and one of my main characters is alice. i based that character on the real alice that rhea met. it was this young canadian girl who had traveled to kharkiv with her father to help stalin's plan. that is the whole thing. why i wrote this book is because of rhea, but i have such deep admiration for her, because in the midst of everybody taking bribes and everybody going by what the mainstream was saying, she had the bravery, just the audacity and the fierceness to stand out and to just say things. that didn't matter what that risk to her own life was, but

the risk to her own career was, she did it. she dropped into oblivion after that. so, i'm so glad she is getting more attention now, and the work she has written is almost prophetic. a lot of her news clippings. >> yeah. marsha, thank you for being with us. thanks for being a member of the book club and the team of people we interview and adding to the corpus. i marsha it skrypuch see author of numerous books, including today's banned book club feature, winterkill. that's it for. me catch it back tomorrow morning, as our coverage ukraine continues our new time slot, 10 pm eastern. also join me at 8 pm eastern monday night, i'll be sitting with chris hayes on all in. alex witt reports is up next. as we go, i leave you with the beautiful, beautiful sight of st. michaels golden domed, right next to me here in kyiv, ukraine, as the bell tolls. the bell tolls