she did it. she dropped into oblivion after that. so, i'm so glad she is getting more attention now, and the work she has written is almost prophetic. a lot of her news clippings. >> yeah. marsha, thank you for being with us. thanks for being a member of the book club and the team of people we interview and adding to the corpus. i marsha it skrypuch see author of numerous books, including today's banned book club feature, winterkill. that's it for. me catch it back tomorrow morning, as our coverage ukraine continues our new time slot, 10 pm eastern. also join me at 8 pm eastern monday night, i'll be sitting with chris hayes on all in. alex witt reports is up next. as we go, i leave you with the beautiful, beautiful sight of st. michaels golden domed, right next to me here in kyiv, ukraine, as the bell tolls. the bell tolls

>> at the top of the hour i bid you all a very good day from msnbc headquarters here in new york. welcome everyone to alex witt reports, we have a panel of reporters and analysts joining us to go over today's major developments for you. we're gonna get to those, but we do have some breaking news to share as just moments ago, vice president kamala harris leaving munich after giving a keynote address to the annual security conference. now, as a war on ukraine's year nearing one year, the vice president reiterate the united states commitment to ukraine, while standing a strong new message against russian aggression. >> the united states has formally determined. that russia has committed crimes against humanity. and i say, to all those who have perpetrated these crimes, and to their superiors who are

complicit in these crimes, you will be held to account. >> meanwhile, the u.s. is ending the search for debris from two objects shot down by the u.s. over alaska airspace and lake huron. they were among three identified, or unidentified objects down by the u.s. last weekend, which came a week after the chinese spy balloon was brought down off the carolina coast. a meeting could take place this weekend in munich between secretary of state antony blinken and china's top diplomat, and that would be the highest level contact between the two countries since the balloon incident. a bit earlier today, democratic ranking member of the house intelligence committee, jim hines, stressed the importance of repairing the relationship with china. >> we can't let this balloon episode interfere with our larger strategic objectives, which is of course you get the chinese to be part of our team

eventually. we have very, very big fish to fry with the chinese, and i would suggest that as brazen as a balloon episode, was it can't be allowed to interfere with the pursue took interest that we have with the chinese. >> all, right let's get to nbc's andrea mitchell, she spoke with vice president kamala harris yesterday, there in munich, and she is joining me as well from munich. andrea, it's an honor to speak with you, but let's talk to you. why has the u.s. taken so long to state formally that russia had committed crimes against humanity? what is the significance of doing so now? and how can the world hold russia to account? >> such good questions alex, good to be with you. well first of all, they want to help ukraine, and they are helping ukraine gather evidence, gather evidence and preserve the evidence, and prepare for future trials, in effort to hold the russia accountable for things they've done in mariupol

and places like that. she gave the speech today, she gave the speech on the world stage at the munich security council a year ago this very week. she was here giving a speech, president zelenskyy fluid, it was four or five days before the invasion. frankly, the rest of the world did not believe the american intelligence that had been declassified. zelenskyy did not fully believe, it certainly his country did not, that russia was going to invade, not until the last moment. the u.s. was warning zelenskyy to not even calm, that he could be shot down in the airspace, the u.s. gave him a plane, and ask, what helped him get here and back into his country safely. you know the rest of the story. she referred to the fact that just a year ago here in munich, people did not believe this would happen, now they see the evidence, now the u.s. feels it's at this stage where they've gathered enough evidence, attorney general merrick garland was in ukraine last summer. he was helping them, training the ukrainians on how to preserve evidence, and now they are prepared to go forward, and

take this very important legal step they say. she says a former prosecutor, that they know the evidence of, it they've seen the pregnant woman taken out of the maternity ward after it was bombed, dying on a stretcher, seeing the bombing of the theater in mariupol, they see people slayed in the streets. you've seen it all. colleagues, brave colleagues have been covering it day in and day out. and that is the evidence that they want to hold against russia, now afterwards i talked to her, after the speech we had a short interview. but we talked about it and i said, how we'll ever hold these perpetrators accountable? will you ever put vladimir putin on trial? and she repeated that they would hold everyone who they can prove is complicit. and that means everyone. indicating that is everyone from the soldiers on the field, up to the generals, and vladimir putin, if you hear protesters behind me -- i doubt that you couldn't hear them. they are from the iranian advocacy groups, iranian human

rights group, it ran for the first time is invited to this conference. excuse me, these protesters, these advocates were invited to the conference, but the iranian regime was, not it's very significant, and russia was not invited to this conference. so russia's being ostracized on the world stage, as is a ron, the government, and these are iranian protesters trying to advocate for the women and others who have been murdered in pursuit of human rights in iran. thinking as i've spoken to some of them upstairs inside, who are delegates, and have credentials here, they want people to see what they have been going through, and not let the world forget. >> indeed we can hear that my friend, not missing a beat. let me ask you, how much talk if any is there at the munich security conference about any potential end to the war in ukraine andrea? are any avenues, any prospect being at least raised in some forms? are there concerns of a broader war breaking out?

>> the position of the u.s. is very clear, secretary blinken was here all day and yesterday, and when asked about any and, any diplomacy, he said that's up to ukraine. they are not gonna put pressure on ukraine to negotiate, since u.s. feels, and the rest of the allies feel the uk, france, germany, nato, at large, putin is not serious about negotiating. there is another very big player here today, and that is the top diplomat from china, he accused the u.s. in his speech of hysteria over the chinese balloons, saying that it was an unmanned civilian airship. again denying that it was a spy ship, and also say that there should be some diplomatic solution, indicating that they believe in sovereignty which they've said before. but that, to them, also means that they're in control of taiwan. which is potentially another hostility down the road.

and what kamala harris told me when i asked her about that is that they are increasingly concerned, something she mentioned in her speech, about china's growing connection and embrace of russia. she warned in her speech that china should not supply weapons to russia. that that would be underscoring and embracing the russian aggression. >> but andrea when you speech about -- let me ask you, wang lee being there, saying oh, no we don't want to cold war, yes he's calling the american shootdown of these spy balloons hysterical, sure, but the fact that he will not take a conversation doesn't take a phone call, the military doesn't take phone calls. how much are you concerned that we could be at least going towards being on the brink of a cold war? >> i don't think so i think there's a real determination,

certainly in washington, we heard that from the president, he expects a conversation with president xi. -- and with secretary blinken, here it would be an opportunity for them to actually talk and set up the terms of a phone call between their leaders, you don't have one leader pulling the other without one knowing what the outcome will be. that was a, thought this could be happening right now as we speak. secretary blinken has gone back to his hotel we know that he is going to report an interview for the press tomorrow morning, or sometime tonight, we don't know yet whether there's actually in place a plan for him to talk or meet with wang yi. the most serious concern on that front is that the military to military phone calls are not being taken. that china is not taking phone calls from our defense secretary, or our counterpart, the chairman of our joint chiefs. even during the cold war, which i covered alex, there were

conversations on the hot line between washington and moscow. they never lost communication. so that is concerning, because the head of national intelligence said in a speech yesterday in new york, when you don't have those kind of communications, you can of accidents. >> andrea, real quickly. do you think back channel communications are going on though? >> i think low level diplomatic conversations -- but i can tell u.s. officials were not happy at all with wang yi speech today. so there had been a plan to have a meeting that could've been delayed, or setback. or they might have to renegotiate the terms. the last thing they want is to meet with wang yi and have him stiff them. >> right. >> and reject a phone call. the feeling has been, according to u.s. officials, that president xi may not have known about the spy balloon, or the timing of the spy balloon. surely he knew about this military program it's planned once a year, it's budgeted, it's part of their defense

budget. but you know, the army, excuse me the pla and china obviously doesn't has this -- we have spy balloons, they house by balloons, but the fact that they came into our airspace was what was so aggressive. they were not of your stating, it's not overreacting. they're trying to i think give president xi a way out. they're saying we know you did know about, this we know this isn't, oh let's guessing back on track. >> okay, andrea missile, thank you so much for expertise as always. in minutes everyone, we're gonna speak with congressman adam smith, the ranking member of the armed services committee, he is at the munich conference as well. we're gonna ask him about any prospect for an end of the war, and a new report on balloon sightings during the trump administration. let's go now to some new developments today on that train relman in ohio. president biden has deployed a team of medical personnel in top psychologist from the department of health and human services, as well as the cdc, to examine that situation in

east palestine. this is after dozens of people reported feeling sick. that is where we find him, this is george soliz, george, we know fema is also on the ground right now. what kind of assistance are they offering? >> i kyle governor mike dewine says he initially didn't affect fema to come to east palestine, but says the agency will now be on the ground to add assistance. adding in the coming, days more federal aid will be available to residents in the area. >> residents in and around east palestine, far from breathing a sigh of relief, despite statements from officials, the air is safe to breathe, and water is safe to drink. >> i don't really think the people should be back in their houses. >> two weeks after the fiery train derailment led to volatile chemical spilling many, in the committee are fearful their future may be floating in the either. >> is this gonna be a big cancer cluster? in 5 to 10 years, will i walk my daughter down the aisle? will i see her get married? >> ohio governor mike dewine announcing that fema will be

deploy resources to the region after saying hours the agency will be a no-show. >> their most typically devolved in disasters where there's tremendous home or property damage. that's why we do not expect that fema will come to east palestine. >> the governor, not turning his >> -- >> it's time now for u.s. congress to take a look at rail safety in this country. >> lawmakers on capitol hill responding, a senate committee spearheaded by u.s. senator marie cantwell initiating an inquiry into railroad's handling of hazardous materials. the committee sending a letter to seven of the largest railroad company ceos, requesting details and documents about safety practices. on that list, nor forks other, trade operation of this latest derailment. >> they have to clean up their mess, they made the mess, they need to clean it up. the company promising to stay in pay through the cleanup, say they have paid out more than 2 million to residents. >> i can't say it's fixing, it but it's at least the start. i think they have a long road

ahead of them. >> in an exclusive loon interview with nbc, -- looking at a mechanical problem with an actual as a possible cause of the crash. officials close to looking at this video of sparks on the train 20 miles before the derailment. >> every accident we investigate is always 100% preventable. >> now the ntsb has not given a concise timeline of when their investigation might be complete, but again, federal aid is expected to ramp up in the coming days. a new health clinic will be opening up in east palestine to address residents health concerns, this is as water in air testing continues. back to you. >> all right, thank you so much for that george, coming up in the next hour gonna hear from erin brockovich, who's been writing about this crisis. she is a consumer advocate, and environmental activists, we're gonna get her take on whether that controlled burn of vinyl chloride was indeed the right decision. also happening right now, family and friends are saying final thoughts farewells to two of those three students shot

and killed this week at michigan state university. on friday, at the state capital, community members rallied for stronger gun laws, and called for an end of gun violence here in the united states. nbc's jesse -- is in east lansing for us, right near that campus. jesse, first of all, how is the community cope inning with the deaths of the students? >> yes alex, it's fair to say that people here are still very much mourning the loss of these three students. we have to also remember that there are five students still in the hospital. including one who has been upgraded to stable condition, that's positive new, but the other four remained in critical condition. so obviously, a lot on this communities mine. as you see behind me, this is a spartan statue, this is obviously the mascot of this university, the michigan state spartans. this is an iconic spot on campus, and right now, it has become a memorial, and a growing memorial, because there's actually several people who've been coming through and

continue to be bringing by flowers, and taking a moment to take in the scene here. you mentioned there are two funerals going on right now, for brian brian fraser as well as for alexandria verner. tonight there will be a vigil for arielle anderson, the third student who was shot and killed. i spoke with a professor who says he was teaching a class in berkeley hall on monday night, that had seven students get shot, including both alexandria verner and arielle anderson who lost their lives. this assistant professor says he wants people to hear what he has to say, he wants people to know what happens as a call to action to have changes made to gun laws in this country. and also to have a renewed focus on mental health, here's part of our conversation. >> i'm haunted because i didn't know what to do. i didn't know what to do with their bodies. there was so much blood if the senate, the senators that have been opposing gun control saw what i saw, instead of o three more dead, 15 more dead, if one

of their kids, one of their nephews experienced, that they would be making a change. they are just -- a making delaying making necessary changes. >> again right now, these students being memorialized right here behind us on the campus, there is some sense of normalcy returning here this afternoon, although it's hard to use that word alex. we have the women's basketball team hosting a game in just a few hours, and then tonight, the men's basketball team will play at the university of michigan for people who are not familiar, these schools are instate rivals. those games can be tense at times, we can imagine this is not going to be that kind of game, at least at first. back to you. >> yeah, absolutely. i'm sure the tenure of these games will be subdued. more so than usual. okay, jesse kirsch, thank you very much. it's all like they came out of nowhere, but they did a.

new reporting about those flying objects and how they date back to the former administration. ad and get ready to taste greatness. oops, i already ate it. c'mon man. try it today! get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a new tool in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside and the other goals along the way wealth plan can help get you there. j.p. morgan wealth management. my asthma felt anything but normal. a blood test helped show my asthma is driven by eosinophils, which nucala helps reduce. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems.

allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. (woman 1) i just switched to verizon business unlimited. it's just right for my little business. back pain, and fatigue. unlimited premium data. unlimited hotspot data. (woman 2) you know it's from the most reliable 5g network in america? (vo) when it comes to your business, not all bars are created equal. so switch to verizon business unlimited today. >> when democracy is under

attack, as journalist, it's our duty to china light on what's happening. >> well the american public eventually find out what these three unidentified objects are? including watch companies they belong to? which specific purposes they had? >> we would like nothing letter, but i can't promise you will get to that level of detail. a lot of that will depend on the ability to cover these three objects. >> so we know that we may never know exactly what objects the u.s. shot down last weekend, because the u.s. is calling off the search for those unidentified objects downed over both alaska and lake huron. that is two of four object shot down altogether by the u.s. military. which included the first one that chinese spy balloon. joining me now is washington congressman, adam smith, democratic ranking member of

the house armed services committee. good to see you sir, particularly wrong long distance. thank you for joining me from munich. but as the search has ended on two of the three mystery object shot down last weekend, the president says they were likely tied to private companies. but does this race any further questions about what else could be out there? because he also told his team, come back to me with some sharper rules on how to deal with these objects in the future. what do you think those rules should look like? and why would he all of a sudden pick up all of these objects? >> it obviously raises a question, i think the answer that question is why we're all of a sudden picking it up. that chinese balloon was floating in the cross, we pick that up, and as a result, we changed the way our radars word, and what we're looking for. and we start to look a lot more closely. by and large, nor, add our air defenses, are looking for missiles and jets. that's what they're supposed to be looking at to better protect

us. with the advent of the chinese balloon coming across, we start to look more closely. then we found a lot more objects. as we're all learning, now there are a ton of organizations out, they're obvious, individuals, companies, yes, meteorologist who are watching a variety of different objects up in the sky. we don't have a very good idea what all of those are. yes, we definitely need a clear set of rules to say, you know, what are we gonna look for first of all? and finally, what are we gonna do about? it we can't be shooting down these things every week. we need to get a clear set of rules about what is up there, and how to identify. >> it's one thing to have hobbyist, to have weather related balloons out there, but how worried are you that there are spy intelligence compromising entities up there? that we just haven't seen it? >> no, absolutely worried about it. because of hobbyists and meteorologist, so can the russians and the chinese.

it seems fairly obvious when you look at the extensive nature of the chinese balloon, not just in the u.s., but across the world, that china felt like they found a weak spot. away a place we were looking. so yes, there is clear intelligence implications in all of this as well. >> let's get to some new reporting from the wall street journal, it says trump era officials were aware of suspected balloons in u.s. airspace. in fact a small smirk circle of intelligence officials at the pentagon at during trump administration monitored a series of mysterious objects now suspected to be balloons. but the incidents were never reported to the white house because it wasn't clear what they were. what is your reaction to this reporting? doesn't make sense that the pentagon would keep something from the white house? or would the penthouse have been potentially intentionally keeping it from donald trump out of concern for his reaction? >> it's hard to get into that level of speculation with any detail or accuracy. it's quite conceivable that

someone in the intel community of the pentagon's on objects like this and just didn't think it was serious. as we've discussed, there's a lot out there. i didn't even mention all the drones of various sizes. so it's quite possible that they looked and said, this is a serious to take to the white house. so going back to your other question, we need to figure this out get some clear rules set. >> take a listen to something else that nsc spokesperson john kirby said about what we're learning from that first tylee needs by balloon. here's that. >> we are going to exploit this material as best we can. we've learned a lot already from the balloon, by surveilling it while it was flying over the country. we're gonna learn even more we believe by getting a look at the guts inside it, and seeing how it worked, and what it was capable of. >> should this quiet all the criticism over letting the balloon fly over the u.s. for as long as it did? is intelligence in a better position to understand what

china is doing, because it was able to study the balloon before blowing it out of the sky? >> it should. i don't think it will. look, the criticism of the biden administration is completely off base. they handled this exactly the way they should. they discovered, it first of, all they let the white house know, they let everyone know, and then they tracked it and they carefully well made well thought out decisions on how best to counter the threat, and gather intelligence. so hopefully, as it'll quiet criticism, the white house and president biden handled this exactly the way it should've. >> okay, let's talk about what you're doing there in munich, as you've attended the security conference while the war in ukraine has certainly been a big focus at the conference. what have you sir been hearing about any possible avenues towards an end to this war? and how does the prospect of ukrainian forces attempting to retake crimea factor into all of that? >> there is a pretty strong consensus here that right now,

what we need to do is give ukraine the greatest capability possible to retake territory, to stop russian offensive that's currently going on in the east. basically a series of human tasks, we've heard the staggering statistics on casualties, russians racking up 1000 killed and wounded in a day, just willing to send their own troops into a meat grinder to try and advance an inch at a time. ukrainians have to stop that, and then the tanks in the fighting vehicles, and other weapons that are given, they're designed to retake territory. the number one biggest consensus here is the only way this horse stops, is if putin is stopped. that's if he is convinced that his maximalist goal of getting ukraine into russia cannot be achieved, and he is forced to the bargaining table. so that is the number one consensus here, arm the ukrainians to stop this invasion. >> what about going after the russians from the sky? nbc news has obtained a letter,

your house colleagues sent to the president, urging him to provide ukraine with f-16 fighter jets so that ukraine can protect its airspace against russian missiles, and end the drone attacks. where do you stand on this? >> we're developing that capability. the main way that ukraine is protecting their airspace right now is with their surface air missiles, with their air defense, that we have supply to them and a variety of different systems. they've been incredibly effective. obviously, russia has a vastly superior fighter attack air force, but they haven't been able to use it hardly at all because of those air defenses. that is what is been affected. -- f-16s in particular are fourth generation fighter, whereas the russians have fifth generation fighters, they wouldn't be terribly effective. the f-16 could conceivably be used to shoot down incoming missiles, that's a possibility that's being developed.

i'm in favor of giving the ukrainians whatever will help them. and the f-16, or other fighter jets are possible, and something that is under serious consideration right now. >> okay, congressman adam smith, always a pleasure to speak with you. safe travels my friend. nikki haley's new move against florida governor ron desantis is about his don't say gay law, so guess what she says is wrong with that, next. next. (woman 1) i just switched to verizon business unlimited. it's just right for my little business. unlimited premium data. unlimited hotspot data. (woman 2) you know it's from the most reliable 5g network in america? (vo) when it comes to your business, not all bars are created equal. so switch to verizon business unlimited today. >> the republican presidential

crisis is heating up this week, and nikki haley throwing her red-hot in the ring, becoming trump's first official 2024 challenger. now she also appears to be taking on another potential candidate, florida governor ron desantis. >> it was all this talk about the florida bill, the don't say gay bill, basically what it says is you should be able to talk about gender before third grade. i'm sorry, i don't think that goes far enough.

>> joining me now is -- senior adviser for the lincoln project, resident scholar at -- and former gop congressional communication director. also kurt bardella, democratic strategist and former gop spokesperson for the house oversight committee, who looks like he's on the road somewhere. but anyway, guys, welcome to you both. tara, we'll go first to you, what is your reaction to what we just heard from nikki haley? do you think the republican party is gonna end up being a battle of extremist ideas? >> clearly the primary. >> yes, yes the primary. because the primary battle is really where it all comes down to at this point. because this messaging does not message resonate with the general public. nikki haley talked out of both sides of her mouth when it's politically expedient for her. will the real nikki haley please stand up? it's one thing for one audience, one thing for another, depending on which race she is running. you can believe anything she says out of her mouth so now this is someone at her

announcement speech this week, had pasture hagy, a christian nationalist extremist, massage earnest, conspiracy theorists. he introduced her, and she said oh pastor, i still want to be you when i grow up. this is a guy who said that, compared women to terrorists and dogs. so which is it nikki haley? you think this is something that this cultural war messaging will appeal to a broader audience besides next extremist republican primary voters? no. anyone who thinks that she represents generational change, or if she's different from the mega agenda, they're wrong. she is just doing it with a different, a lighter spin on it. she's mega light. but she's dishonest, and i think this is something that is dangerous territory for republicans overall but this is who they are now. as i said, marjorie taylor greene has a better chance of being the republican nominee, as nikki haley does, especially when she's doing things like, this so duplicitous.

>> speaking of marjorie taylor greene, this question to you, here's what she tweeted, kurt. nikki haley is just another george or jeff bush, she goes on to say if we wanted a bush in heels, republicans would vote for liz cheney. so does it help or hurt nikki haley that extremists like marjorie taylor greene are rooting against her? >> while marjorie taylor greene is worried exactly about what tara is talking about, that she is going to lose her spot to nikki haley. nikki haley is a threat to marjorie taylor greene's ambitions to keep climbing the ladder of power. and so that is why she's going after her, i don't think anybody is really looking to marjorie taylor greene for political advice one way or the other. i think nikki haley is gonna do what nikki haley's gonna do. i think she does have a problem as tear alluded to, as trying to be all things to all people all the time. it just doesn't work, people are gonna catch on to, that you can pretend to be not trump one minute, but then surround

yourself with the type of extremist, dangerous extremists, that are all full monika. you have to pick a lane, i think that's the biggest hurdle that nikki haley is gonna have. which is why at the end of the day, when you try to be all things to all people, you end up nowhere. >> so here's one lane tara, there's a new nbc called the says nikki haley's campaign opened with an appeal to race. some indian americans are saying it won't work. the executive director of aapi victory alliance told nbc i think people can see through her much better now than ever before. so she can try to talk about her immigrant background, i think it's gonna fall fluent. >> do you agree with that? if so, why won't that work for her? >> well, i mean, i can't speak on behalf of the indian american community because i'm not part of that. but i can see where the comparisons would be to where oftentimes, republicans will try to use immigrants, or minorities as tokens to try to deflect away from policies and positions that are actually exclusive of those communities. and nikki haley is no different

than a lot of the rest of, them it's the same thing with the ben carson's of the world, or the herschel walker,'s where they think of they put a black candidate up their, they'll say there's no more racism, white people go yes see, we're not racist anymore, because a black guy said there's no more racism. it's just, it's really incredulous, and quite transparent. and when nikki haley says that, osha grew up on the other side of the tracks, and how the tracks divided the community. who the [bleep] does she think put the tracks there? i guess the tracks just showed up through immaculate construction. is it asinine position, and very transparent. so i think people will see right through, it because she's actually not very good at this. >> interesting. there are certainly a number of questions about these headlines, kurt, and the questioned haley's role in the race. among them, you have a media night call him saying that it faces glaring problems. first, her time the trump administration, which means it's incumbent on her to

portray her tenure there, and by extension, trump, as a success. and two, she's given the period so far that she has no interest in criticizing, or differentiating herself from trump. do you see these as problems for her, kurt? >> yes, because again, it is a classic example, if you want to have your cake and eat it too. you want the credit for serving under donald trump and his administration, voluntarily, but you don't want to get the baggage associated with donald trump. so you're trying to walk this fine line, it's a same problem that mike pence has. when you ride shotgun to someone who is wreaked so much havoc, harm, destruction, carnage on our country, your culpable. you are in accomplice -- a coconspirator. >> let me ask you this, about nikki haley, she left the administration as the u.n. ambassador, not mike pence, at the end of 2018. so she had the last two years, when all the election denialism and all that stuff was going down really intently, and all that went down those two years, she is not part of that. can she effectively focus on

those two years, and say i wasn't part of that, and here's where it went wrong. do you think he'll do that? >> she may try, but again silence is complicit. she could've at anytime availed herself to the plethora of microphones that are available to her as the former u and pastor, as a former trump appointee, and spoken out forcefully, deliberately, she could've done exactly what liz cheney did, exactly what adam kinzinger did. but she did, and she stayed silent because you wanted to protect her political prospects, but again when people say silent and no better, that's worse to me almost in the actual perpetrators who are doing what they're doing. you know all it takes is one video for people to stay silent for evil to triumph, that's true for nikki haley. >> let me give you lost were tear on, this relative what mitt romney says, the more crowded on the gop size, the more it gives it to donald trump i splintering it. what do you think? >> he's absolutely right. at the lincoln project we've made this point repeatedly. and the idea that donald trump

is no longer a threat, or that, oh it's all about ron desantis, and trump is an afterthought, that's bs. because more people who are in this, they split the primary vote. republicans have an all or nothing winner takes all primary system. it's not like the democrats, so if they have all of these vanity candidates, like nikki haley and others that are in this race. they will split the vote of people who don't want trump, and it will be a repeat of 2016 all over again. so yes, mitt romney is absolutely right, in the nikki haley's who are trying to be lukewarm here, who is their constituency? i don't know who those people are. until she says forcefully that you know, joe biden is the legally elected president of the united states, there was no voter fraud, that he is turning away from any of the republican parties anti-democratic illiberal policies and attempts to undermine our constitutional order, she has no credibility whatsoever. none. >> okay.

one's word in response to that, yikes. all right tara setmayer and kurt kurt bardella, great to see you, thank you very much. new information on the balloons crossing the u.s. border, we're gonna continue with reporting -- dating back to the trump administration. who knew about it? and who did it? that's next. that's next. i've been married to my high school sweetheart for 35 years. i'm a mother of four-- always busy. i was starting to feel a little foggy. just didn't feel like things were as sharp as i knew they once were. i heard about prevagen and then i started taking it about two years now. started noticing things a little sharper, a little clearer. i feel like it's kept me on my game. i'm able to remember things. i'd say give it a try. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. (male announcer) important information for viewers age 50 to 85. have you thoughtit a try. about getting life insurance to help your family with funeral expenses, but worried it would cost too much or that you wouldn't qualify? at colonial penn,

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that trump era officials were indeed aware of aerial objects floating around in the u.s. airspace. according to the wall street journal, a small circle of intelligence officials at the pentagon we're monitoring a series of mysterious objects now suspected to be balloons. let's bring in tracey walter, former cia officer, it's fbi special agent, and elena kashima, national security reporter for the washington post. ladies, welcome to you both. tracey, we believe that president trump was not briefed on these objects. and in the last week, in fact several high lake ranking members of congress have expressed frustration that they have not been briefed on the china balloon until it was spotted by civilians in montana. so as a former cia agent with the experience in how is shared, is this unusual or not? so, the answer to that question is really it depends. really, the way that the president is going to get a lot of his personal intelligence information is through the presidential daily brief.

that's where he gets almost every day, that comes from the cia, and that information that is deemed important. >> hang on one second. how inclusive is that? and i'm gonna ask this specific relative to donald trump, because we heard rather infamously, that he wanted things won -- the word trump. put there as often as possible. normally, when our president said, okay this could be six or seven pages, i'm gonna go through in detail. does that explain why donald trump might not have been briefed? >> that's exactly what i was getting to. >> oh i'm sorry. >> now let's find. when i worked with the agency, it was under bush. and so his was typically 5 to 7 pages, he received it every day, we never had any issues. but, as you said, trump was very much either not willing to get the presidential daily brief, or if he did, he wanted it shrunken down. the reality is is if the pentagon, if the folks that were following these into our airspace didn't necessarily

completely know whether or not china was actively spying with them, they may not have included it in an effort to keep those pages brief. >> i'm actually kind of excited, i'm thinking like a former cia officer with that one. >> anyway allen, let's get to your new article in which you write the u.s. was tracking the original spy, rather the china spy balloon from this launch. tell me what the government knew about this balloon before we found out about, it and why you described its path as unusual. >> yes, it turns out that the intelligence and military agencies were actually trapped the balloon from its launch off of hainan island, just off the southeast coast of china. roughly a week before it turned up over alaskan airspace. it appears it one analyst said they're strongly suspecting

that the balloon was never intended to it was headed toward guam perhaps, hawaii, to conduct that sort of surveillance in that area, but got blown off course by stronger than usual winds, high altitude winds, air currents, and excuse me, strong unusual weather patterns. and it sent the balloon north, and then dipping south into the continental u.s.. now whether or not this was intentional, it was certainly unprecedented, unusual, and china, they did take advantage of it. to deploy the surveillance equipment on the balloon, i try to gather intelligence over sensitive sites, such as the

airbase in montana. so that much is unclear, what we don't know for sure yet is whether that deviation was a mistake, as it appears to be or what. >> yeah. so it's interesting, because you take from that the ability for the balloon to govern itself, you know, and the efficacy of what it's entailed. that said, with tracey, when you look at what happened between february 4th and 12th, you had four different objects spotted in and around u.s. airspace. then shot down, then you have the next week, absolutely nothing. can you explain what happened that week that did not happen before or since? >> that's an excellent question. the short answer to that is nor at a justice there sensors, they made the more sensitive, we have what is called a domain gap, the pentagon admitted that in terms of being able to find these objects. so right now, i fully believe that the spy balloon was absolutely conducting reconnaissance on us, the other

objects that were shot down, they very much could be amateur, as well as private companies. you know there's private companies that launch satellites, they also take imagery of the u.s. and other places. it's actually not unusual for that to be up in our airspace, there's lots of things that are up in our airspace, it's just whether or not we determine that they're there for intelligence gathering purposes, or for private companies and their own research purposes. but that's why we detected more. >> allen, the administration is kept a pretty controlled light on the details of the chinese spy balloon, certainly as well as the other three objects, that happened until this week when the president spoke about the situation several times, here's a bit about what he said about. it >> we don't know exactly what these three objects were, but nothing suggest that they were related to china's bible and programs, or if they were surveillance vehicles from other, any other country. clear message, the violation of our sovereignty is unacceptable. as i've said since the

administration, we've seen competition, not conflict with china. so i make no apologies for taking down that balloon. >> that was on thursday, you think the president was pressured to address americans about this before knowing precisely what those last targets are, or were? did you clear up confusion, or two serious questions still remain? >> after what, two and a half weeks of this balloon, ufo business, i think it's time to step back and take stock a little bit. what we know is that what's new here is we learned that the public learned for the first time, that china has this aerial surveillance balloon program. and they, the u.s. outed that program, china is now desperately seeking to shift the narrative. >> it's not it's backfoot, it's trying to turn the narrative towards one of, oh the united states is overreacting, it's

overreach, it's absurd, hysterical response to the balloon. that's because it did not expect such an outcry, it didn't want it, it didn't expect its balloon program to be discovered. but the fact of the matter is, this surveillance program has been discovered, now many countries are aware of it. they're tracking it, they're looking at -- what is needed to defeat its collection. and i should also add, it is not the most you know, sophisticated shocking surveillance program out there. i think that's one reason the u.s. hasn't maybe in the prior administration, it wasn't as focused on. it minded sanding on it is that they really didn't, the u.s. government didn't understand or conclusively assess that this was a surveillance program until this administration. i think they may well have been analysts in the prior

administration that saw some signs of it, but they didn't completely determine what it was. >> all, right tracey allen, thank you for your insights. meanwhile the clock is ticking in georgia, there's all about one kasean, that is next. and in our next hour, the tale of the tax. the big developments this week in the defamation lawsuit against fox news. x news are we getting a dog? a great dane? two great danes?! i know. giant uncle dane and his giant beard. maybe a dragon? no, dragons are boring. twin sisters! and one is a robot and one is a knight. and i'll be on the side of... the octopus. rawr!!! the volkswagen atlas. more room for possibilities.

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indictment of former president trump may be intimate after the release of part of the georgia special grand jury report showed that no election fraud took place in 2020. suggesting that trump could be headed for charges in that state. joining me now, msnbc lisa rubin. let's get into this my friend. the county da has said that she will soon decide whether there's gonna be charges against trump. if willis indites trump, the two likely path she might take

will focus on the fake electors and then trump's call to brad raffensperger. one is in your case that would take weeks to try. the other, much broader, it would take months. what steps do you see willis taking? what are the possibilities of success for each case? >> i think it is possible that she will be both. that is not an either or. but if i'm willis, i'm trying to secure testimony right now and bring people before the regular grand jury. that means twice a week. preparing to indict. i do think alex, there will be indictments based on the statement she made to the fulton county judge who is overseeing that gradually. not releasing that report in full is because of the prejudice of the potential defendants. >> okay. we learned this week that trump's chief of staff got that subpoena in january from the special counsel jack smith to testify under oath to a grand jury. as his chief of staff, that's as close as you can get to don

trump in this investigation, what do you think we are likely to see now? what was the another tempt by meadows to testify like he did with the january house committee on some kind of executive privilege which i must remind viewers, marc short, vice president mike pence's chief of staff tried to do that and the judge said no, you've got to testify. how does this go down? is there a difference between the presidential chief of staff and the vice presidential chief of staff. >> if there is anybody who falls within the wheelhouse and squarely within executive privilege. it would be, as you know, the president chief of staff. marc short is the only person for whom executive privilege has been overcome. it has been overcome for greg jacob. after two white house lawyers, pat cipollone and pat philbin. that is our expectation because we can't see what is going on in the courtroom during these grand jury to gushes. we can only see, basically, who is there and what people are telling our reporter friends

for publications anonymously. there is expectation that privilege has been overcome for each of those people. out expect the same to be true of mark meadows. if there is any flicker of recognition of executive privilege, it should apply to him. >> okay, weijia reuben, we shall see with your help. thank you very much. the security conference and whether there's any talk there about an off ramp for the ukraine war, plus consumer advocate erin brockovich on the next steps that need to be taken at the site of the toxic train derailment in ohio. train derailment in ohio. train derailment in ohio. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. (woman 1) i just switched to verizon business unlimited.

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