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>> this is a film about storytelling, about how we tell the story of our country's past. why do we want to believe one version and not another? maybe because it makes us feel safe at night. there is one episode of america's history that is told very differently, depending on who you are and where you live. it is the story of our civil war and what came after. >> the hot winds of war blew across the land. made of it, a country divided. friend turned into foe. brother fought against brother. it was such a long and drawn

out struggle. and the feeling on both sides was so intense. >> we're all just romantics, lost in contemporary times you might say. every one of us feels like we were born 125 years too late. >> to introduce myself, my name is rachel boynton. this is nelson walker. we are independent documentary filmmakers. we're making a film about how we tell the story of the civil war. we're filming in different schools all over virginia and we're going to place this with a deep connection to this history.

>> what made you choose the civil war and reconstruction? >> well, you know, america is kind of like a big family that tore itself apart during the civil war. and in order to make peace, we told ourselves a certain story about it. and for a long time, we had trouble telling the difference between that story and the truth. >> you can ask me anything you want. >> what did you want to do when you were little? and you have a backup for that if you couldn't get that? >> when i was really little, i wanted to be superman. when i got a little bit older, i wanted to be an anthropologist. do you know what an anthropologist is? somebody who goes around the world and studies the ways other people live. >> like this? >> kind of like this.

>> people are having to come to grips with the civil war, and enslavement, which are sort of the founding bases of the country. >> our country is like a really old house that you may not want to go into that basement, but if you really don't go into that basement, it's at your own peril. whatever you're ignoring will be there to be reckoned with until you reckon with it. >> these voices were all happening on the eve of the civil war. i'm interested in what you think about it, i'm interested in who is saying this. and i'm also gonna give you the secession documents from south carolina.

>> where is he from? what's he about? who is he? >> he's a philadelphia congressman, i believe. >> no, ohio. >> i think he's from ohio. >> so he delivers this, when? when is this written, because that's one of the questions that i ask? >> december 27, 1860. >> exactly. and what does he basically say? >> he doesn't want secession because he knows if there is the secession, there will be a huge war. >> people will know this war with their own eyes. they will, you know, really experience war amongst ourselves. he sounds scary, doesn't he? >> yeah. >> i think he probably was. >> what stood out to you in the arguments? >> so our article was presented by alexander stevens in atlanta, georgia.

and not once does he talk about slavery, property, and what the war is really about, what they're really fighting for. >> other voices? >> yeah. i noticed there seems to be a common idea that the civil war was totally about slavery. i'm gonna disagree with that. the south did want to leave the union, because of slavery, but the issue of the civil war was keeping the south in the union. so slavery isn't like, the entire issue. >> pushback? comments? >> we're gonna continue tomorrow. we have class tomorrow. you are a thinker. that is for sure. the wedge is this labor issue, right? i think we're agreed on that. it's just the way of describing it. good job. go, go, go. >> you're spending a lot of time telling the story of the civil war and reconstruction, in your 8th grade class, why? >> because i think we have not adequately, you know, understood who we are as a nation. there's so much of this history that has been way too difficult for this country to look at. the reason it's important to

understand this history is because we carry it within us. these things need to be unpacked and looked at, and talked about, and we need to decide what we think about them now. it is challenging, but it's where the juice is. [laughs] >> we call it the war between the states here. we don't call it the civil war. >> why is it important to call it the war between the states? >> because that's what it was, it wasn't a civil war. >> the war of northern aggression, the north came down here and invaded us. we didn't go up there. >> my grandmother was saying they had to had the food in the chimney because of soldiers who came in would take everything they had. they take all their livestock, any food that was in the house, and it was terrible. the war took place in our backyard, for the people up

north, the war was a distant thing. >> we're both members of the local sons of confederate veterans, and we are responsible for taking care of that cemetery. >> but our generation is that, there's not gonna be anybody around to take care of it. >> or to promote the true history of the 1860 - 1865 time. >> this class that i'm filming, the teacher is teaching the cause of the war on slavery. >> oh, really? >> and so, does that offend you? i mean, can you explain to me why. >> yes, because it's not true. you're telling stories that are untrue about my ancestors, about my family, about my country, the south. >> and tell me what the untrue thing is? >> slavery. they are not telling the whole story. slavery was one of the reasons, but for that professor to say that economics had nothing to do with that war is totally false. >> i would have fought for the south, you know why?

it had nothing to do with political reason. because my home was being invaded. >> the confederacy lost this war big-time. no americans have ever lost a war quite like the confederacy lost this war. white southerners are going to need to process what the meaning of that whole collapse of their society really is. and their explanation of their defeat becomes a narrative. it becomes a memory. it becomes the lost cause tradition. and the lost cause tradition was this argument that the confederacy had really fought for noble aims. the war wasn't really entirely

about slavery. it was about defending their homelands. their families, their women, that slavery was not the great issue, that if it had left to them, they would have handled slavery overtime, and maybe even gotten rid of it themselves, they said, which is nonsense. there were alternative textbooks eventually published in the south. and it wasn't just textbooks they were trying to control, it was the stories being widely told in the public arena. and they had a tremendous influence. so, what is at stake in the memory of the american civil war, is who gets to control this narrative, the story. easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are.

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microphone. do you have any questions for me? >> i have one. forgot what it was.

do you consider yourself a radical person? >> am i a radical person? no. i'm not a radical person. i think i'm someone who questions things. i'm questioning the stories we tell. like, in your class, the story about slavery, right? they tell us something about why we are so divided. do you see us living in a divided country? >> every day.

>> i am a member of the holmes county center high school family. education first. [inaudible] >> the kids that i have here are determined to not follow in the footsteps of what was in the past. i'm hoping i can spark something in them to say, i want to know more, i want to learn more. >> in mississippi, do people talk about slavery as the cause of war? >> you don't hear the word of slavery or slaves in mississippi. that was an incidental part of it.

i guess the simple term is whitewash, as i told my class, that a lot of time, you want to see the good part of the history, especially history that you are part of, and you want to minimize the bad part about it. slavery is not an easy topic to tackle for black or for white. >> so how do you tackle the story of slavery? >> one thing is that the slaves were more powerful than we give them credit for. >> people said lincoln freed the slaves, but you say, actually, they freed themselves. >> that was a question. >> why couldn't slaves free themselves in a sense before all of this if they freed themselves? >> you didn't have the abolition movement. you didn't have those people step forward. but those people, to me, were just as brave as the 1960s, probably even more brave. think about nat turner.

>> to make a change, you have to be able to -- >> that's it, he caused people to think. he went from plantation to plantation, killing everybody. he wanted to kill the women and children. he wanted to do that. why? >> you expect for a dude to be dead, you expect a mother, three kids [inaudible] he did. he set the right tone. you want to kill wives, children. yeah. >> [inaudible] >> don't take for granted the lives that were lost. who is brave enough to try the system when it's wrong? that is what makes these guys heroic. we can't devalue what we did. a white guy whose grandfather was confederate. they can keep that memory alive, why can't we?

>> in holmes county, i noticed how we have the browns and the lees and we also have caucasian people at the same last name. i was always wondering, is there any relation between the two? then i learned that, you know, slaves got their last name from their slave owners. it's like, did this family own this family? or did they come from --? i always wondered about that. >> there is this enormous history of slavery in holmes county. do people ever talk about that? >> about? >> just the question of the history of slavery here. >> no. >> do you know if your ancestors were enslaved here? >> i don't know. >> would you want to know? >> not really. >> why? >> because i don't want to think about what all they went through for us. >> how come?

>> because they are -- because they worked for all their life, being enslaved and not being treated right. that will just bring me down because they suffered and i wish somebody could've did something for them back then to help them out. >> you don't wanna think about because it makes you sad? >> yeah. >> i don't wanna hate people. i want to hate people based on their character towards me now, not what they did hundreds of years ago, or their family did hundreds of years ago. >> i think white people are afraid it's going to make them feel ashamed. >> yeah. i think so, too.

that's why they're probably, when you're teaching -- i keep going back to the teaching. it's where it all starts because i doubt if a white man would tell his six-year-old daughter we owned slaves, or we did this to slaves. i doubt if that happens. >> i think we all should learn the real history because, as black people, we think we know but we don't. i never met my great grandmother. you know, they don't talk about slavery, the racial segregation. they don't talk about it. >> would you want to ask her about it? >> i would. but i wouldn't, i think she would say she don't know to avoid the conversation. >> and why do you think she would want to avoid the conversation? >> it might hurt her. she might feel mad about it. >> it's hard to talk about

things like that. >> yeah. >> it's personal around here. we're in a southern state. we're talking about the civil war. i'm going to have students that are pulling for the confederacy. i was that student. i pulled for the confederacy. they are southern. i'm southern, right? it's not about slavery in your mind. it's just like it's the cowboys versus the redskins and you want the cowboys to win the football game, right? it is what it is in their head. so, when you throw slavery in

there, it complicates it. it is not a football game. this was real. most history classes we teach that the winners write history. the civil war, the losers try to write history. when we look at southerners, how they try and twist the narrative what happened, i want to put us in their shoes and learn why. if you can teach empathy when it comes to history, it's such a powerful thing for the rest of your lives. >> all right, boys. in your packet, turn to new perspectives on slavery. what we have here are statistics about slavery. i want you to talk about what's jumps out at you. >> it says about 1. 1 million southern families owned no slaves. only about a little over 350,000 owned slaves. that's only a fourth or fifth. it's actually pretty crazy statistics. only a handful of people had one or five slaves. it's just probably around the household, which probably would've been treated pretty well. >> it depends.

>> of course, the southerners we're trying to -- they weren't treated like regular humans, but they took care of them because they were a way to make money. >> correct. it is an investment. that's my money. i need to take care of my money. i want that to continue producing money for me therefore i take care of it. i don't take care of it and provide. i mean, it's still a dirt floor they sleep on. you know? i'm still working them 10 to 12 hours. let's look at 210. whippings per person. in the south, where was the wealth? owning land and owning slaves. if i invested $23,000 in something, i don't want to beat it to a pulp, right? why did they do it? >> fear. >> you hit on it, that's the word. here's what american slavery is about. money and fear. they are making lots of money. they are terrified of what happens if this goes away. what happens when people talk about abolition and

emancipation? what do i start picturing in my head? >> getting lynched. >> yes. retribution. they're going to come after us. so, you can look at it and say the situation is not great, but i don't want to get lynched. i don't want people throwing rocks through my windows. so switch to verizon business unlimited today. here, is cvs health. here, we'll never be told our concerns are all in our head. here, we don't think we should pay more than men for the same thing. or pay taxes for period products. here, we can ask tough questions, day or night. and here, we're actually heard. and because of that, we can focus on getting healthier together. together. here, healthier happens together. cvs health. y'all wayfair's got just what you need for your home. do they have stylish beds at great prices?

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join tens of millions of people making the easy switch by downloading the app today. duckduckgo, privacy simplified. (upbeat music) officers pointed their guns into crowds of young people. it was shocking to me. why are we still in a war in this country over race? slavery, it lasted 200 years. you have to develop a psychology on the part of the white people who were doing this, that involves enormous acts of denial. we haven't even claimed it as the horrific system that it was. >> she says, slavery is the cause. and so, many white people that we hear say, don't talk to me about slavery. i didn't own slaves. my parents didn't own slaves. >> the cultural conditioning that began in slavery has

continued. the privileges that you see some white people have goes back to, i'm more than you, i'm better than you. >> why? why? why, teresa? why are they better? >> oh, i don't believe that. >> i know, but why do they think they're better? >> privilege. privilege has told them they're better. >> they don't even know that privilege. and i remember a book i read in seminary -- >> i don't buy that they don't know they are privileged. >> i serve a congregation of over educated white people who don't recognize their privilege. they don't see that you start that it's the norm. >> if you don't feel that you are privileged, how do you account for the differences between white people and disadvantaged black people? >> they're not comparing themselves to black people, right?

like, my white friends are mostly comparing themselves to other highly educated well-off white friends. >> but when you say, white people can't get it, i don't buy that. >> i don't know what they can't get? >> i don't buy that for a moment! >> since the 60s, i have been proving to myself, and there comes a point in life when you say, i'm done. it's on them now, because i know i am okay. so the way i look at it, is your loss. i don't intend to spend all of my life proving to white people that i'm okay. >> don't prove it, i think you need to get educated. >> no, we don't. >> what i'm saying is that -- >> they need to open their minds -- >> last night, i was at this

conversation about slavery being the source of our racial problems. the topic of white privilege came up a lot. the idea of, you know, white people have advantages in this country, or -- yeah, i mean, advantages. or you can flip it around and say, black people have disadvantages in this country, simply because of skin tone. >> i feel like it kind of goes both ways. sometimes white people have a disadvantage, i had a friend a couple of years ago. his gpa was like a 4.26, and then he got a friend that was black. they had like a 3.9, like a 3.3, and they both applied to princeton. and the black kid got it. i feel like everyone says, there's a lot of white privilege, so we have to give others like, other ethnicities advantages in this place, instead of trying to view everyone as just like an american. >> i mean, not talking about the race issue, just not bringing it up to the next

generation would keep them natural in that sense, and they would not be racists. >> i don't think that slavery and the civil war and jim crow should be forgotten. i think they should be remembered because i think they are an important lesson that america isn't perfect, and to work against that in the future. >> if you look at things like that incarceration rate for, you know, young black men in this country, and why is it so disproportional, or why you have the socioeconomic situation that you have, between white people, black people, that you can see this didn't come out of nowhere. this isn't a reflection of the tone of somebody's skin. it's based in history that goes back before your generation, before my generation, before my grandparent's generation. i mean, it goes way back. >> i think there's a balance between, like, recognizing our past, but also not over-talking

it. just over emphasizing the problem to where it's always on our minds. and it's difficult to be very equal when it's always on your mind, racism and things like that. >> yeah. >> so please welcome doctor kelly carter jackson. [applause] >> first off, i want to tell you a story about one of my students. he raised his hand and he said, who is harriet tubman? i was like, oh, my god! i tried really hard. sometimes as a professor, you have to like fix your face. before i could answer the question, he goes, oh, i remember. she's the woman who wouldn't get off the bus. and i was like, no, no, that's not her at all. but it's important because i think it highlights the fact that we only see like one great black man, and one great black woman per century. so force and freedom, my book, really tries to introduce new voices and to highlight black

abolitionists in particular. the moment the first black person is enslaved, they're pushing back. they are collecting arms as much as they possibly can to prepare for what they believe is inevitable. and that is the violent overthrow of slavery. >> there seems to be a kind of cirricular resistance to teaching this aspect of american history. look, and i think, i'm also a historian. i can understand this, and i can anticipate why. but i just wanted you to talk about, it takes your book to underscore force, as well as freedom, you know? and we all know that that's a part of this history, but it's not taught that way. >> yeah. it's not taught, i think, because we have this hypocritical, i think, hypocritical love affair with violence. we talk about violence, i think, in these really romantic ways. but that's only when we're talking about white men, right?

when the situation is reversed, it is terrifying to think of black people using force or using violence to bring about their freedom. >> is it rolling? >> so, i want to talk to you about what you've learned so far, right, in college. is there anything you've learned here about the story of the civil war, that would be hard to talk about with people back home? >> yeah, if -- my daddy is like that typical southern male. he knows everything, you don't question him. you know, i love him to death. that is the way he is. that's why people are down here. if i told him that the main cause of the civil war was slavery, he would probably, like open the bible and start preaching at me and stuff like that. i don't know. >> why would he find that offensive? >> my great-great grandfather

did fight the civil war. and he did come back, he came back like alive and it messed him up at the time. it was a bad situation for my family at the time that i would not know near enough about what were the details. but is just like remembrance of how hard times where at that time, because it was really hard for my family, because we were born and raised in --, mississippi. in, like, my grandparents house, there's and old rebel flag in one of those flag boxes. and like, we don't take it out. we don't rub it at people's noses. it's just, you know, up there above a cabinet. >> it has been called the war of brother against brother, the civil war. soldier and nation, together,

found that their fears and doubts were not so strong as their faiths, and in national tryings like gettysburg. we memorialize the soliders that gave themselves, unreservedly for what they believed to be right. remember and be proud. >> we never really had a racial reckoning. the problem started first immediately after the war. if you want north and south to get together and get along again, you don't talk about causes and consequences. you talk about the mutual valor on that battlefield. why doesn't that confederacy, which only lasted for years,

just go away? the racial reasons are paramount. it also has to do with this idea that the confederacy was a dissent. man, they went to the limit. and they deserved respect for all of that courage. they claim, after they lost, that they were only reacting to the overreach of centralized federal power. there is the kind of admiration of that still in our culture. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> james mcgill, he settled this farm almost 200 years ago. and i felt like i followed in his footsteps. my wife raised the children. all i ever did was work. of course, now, the federal government took my farm.

so, i had it financed with the federal government farmer's home administration. they wouldn't redo my loans. during the war and reconstruction, people in the south lost everything. i can empathize with them. it made me mad. i can understand why they were mad. they spent 150 years -- people are still mad in the south about it. it is wrong for the federal government to dictate to the states what they should or should not do. ever since the war, no one's property has been secure. there is a lot of talk of reparations for slaves, you know? my great-great grandfather, no one paid -- abraham lincoln, he emanicipated the slaves, he did not get paid for them. the war -- southern independence changed our country for the worse. and my opinion. >> what do you think? do you think they changed for the worst? >> i'm trying to process

everything. i do understand that parts of my father is speaking on because i feel that way. the government is too big and has too much power. it is an invasion. how long would it take them to free the slaves? how long would it have taken for them to realize that slavery is wrong? >> do you think slavery left an imprint on the minds of people in america? >> sure, it left an imprint. i'm saying the war left more of an imprint. that is my personal opinion. >> for black and white? >> yes. >> you feel like the war itself was a bigger aggression than slavery? >> yes. >> it feels like you are dismissing the experience of millions of enslaved people. it feels like you are not seeing what they experienced at the hands of the people who were enslaving them.

i mean, how is treating people as property not a greater horror? >> my feeling is that it was legal. it was a settled way of order. they had laws that they had to live up to, and were forced on them, and treat them civilly. i don't hate james mcgill. i just want universities and schools to stop teaching our children to hate our southern ancestors. they don't deserve that. mportant. your dedicated fidelity advisor can help you open those doors. by working with you on a retirement-income plan designed to balance growth and guaranteed income. because doors were meant to be opened. ya know, if you were cashbacking you could earn on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs,

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age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv ♪ ♪ ♪ >> do you know with the confederate flag looks like? >> yes, it has a cross, and it's red, white and blue, with stars going through it. >> where have you seen that

flag? >> i see it when i'm driving, when i'm traveling. i see it, i live in the countryside. and the countryside i traveled in greenwood, and it's white people back there. it's no black people. and i see a lot of confederate flags that hang up the houses, hang up the mailboxes. i seen the back on people's trucks. >> and what does it make you think? >> grow up, basically. >> in class, you said you are good public speaker? >> yes, i am. >> what makes you a good speaker? >> my projection, my performance. when i speak, i capture attention, and i know that i capture attention. i do oratoricals. i won first place in five, six oratoricals. and i've once taken place one. >> i don't notice any white kids at the school, are there any white kids at your school? >> no.

>> why is that? >> i would say, in my personal opinion, i don't know if that's why, but i would simply say, the fact that the segregation is like how we are here. like, it just socially happened. like this is the black schools. central homes is the white kids school. this is how the neighborhood, this is how the parents separated everything. >> have you ever had a white friend? >> no. i have never, i have never been around a white person. i've never had a complete conversation to even become associates. >> do you think that the civil war is relevant to your life? >> i feel that it is relevant because your past, your history, is your story. whether or not you know it or not, it is your story. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> these are 209,245. americans in the union army, it's one of the civil war. they started every branch of the army. 142 regiments. seven cavalry regiments. 13 -- they look to each other's, because if you served for three years, all you had is your comrades. >> go left, go left, go left, go left, right. go left. go left. go left. go left, right. >> so this is the african american civil war museum.

in the museum, we built a great model of history. america has a history of that whole conflict they did not include african americans, and these african american soldiers that played a great role in ending that war, to preserve the nation and enslavement here in the united states. the war started. well, once he realized he couldn't win this war without us, then the war started to change in lincoln's favor. 150, 000, they were enslaved, living in all southern states. they literally lived up with uniforms on and rifles and pockets. so if you think, i live in a world that's out of control and, there's nothing that i can do about it. well, there is something you can do about it, and you can

take lessons from these people whose stories we tell here in this museum. i think it's liberating. >> we're making this tone that how we tell the story of the civil war, and i think you guys have been -- what did you think? >> i hear like it's living in this country. it's like, oh, the civil war, you know about it. when you start to learn about it, there's so many like, intricate details of why things happened. and i think it's it's important that we learn about it. but the one thing that does like not concern me, but most people here have the same kinds of political views, which, you know, it's great to be around people who think like you. but at the same time, there is no like real conversation. there's no real dialogue and understanding. like people of different views than you, which is i think how we can move forward. i think that's important.

>> and in order for people to really get your perspective and understand where you're coming from, what's one thing they should know about you? >> right. i mean, the biggest thing for me is gender. i try to present as masculinly as i can. you know, people still sometimes stick me for a girl, and that's a big thing that's hard for me to deal with. yeah, that's probably the biggest one. >> it's like you're not getting fully seen? >> right. yeah. >> reconstruction has been the most contested question in america's historical memory. reconstruction is a period of time that begins immediately

after the war. 10 to 12 years, when america had to truly reinvent itself. 14th amendment puts equal protection of the law into the u.s. constitution. and the right to vote for black men in the 15th amendment, was a constitutional and a legal revolution. and some black spokesmen by the 1890s, at the turn of the 20th century, would often refer to 1865 as the year zero of a new calendar. a new beginning to history itself. but you have to incorporate the white south into an american union. a society that had just lost approximately 18% of its adult male population in war. how do you reunify those people at the emotional level, with

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civil law roundtable. we call ourselves a civil war roundtable named after a town. >> we sent 300 men from this town and that's how -- >> i think it was four. >> close to 400. >> 50 of them died, but bases of our meeting tonight, we called a reconstruction in what went right and what went wrong? holy macro. i want to talk about reconstruction. the physical period of time from 1865 to 1877. you know, in the schools, we

came to reconstruction and the chapter ended on the civil war. >> how are you gonna build this part of the country with malice towards, as lincoln's words, how can you do that? >> no one on the civilian side, on the confederate presidency, was ever forced to concede and repudiate what they believed. and we allowed a group of people that waged an armed insurrection against their government, to build statues, to their heroes. so that has kept it alive. we have never solved the core problem, the civil war. and that's why, reconstruction didn't have a chance, the north was fighting back and forth here in the whole reconstruct period. >> the elephant in the room, the north and south were racists, period. the black was not considered to be a human being. >> good! how are you? >> have you ever had an african american member of this group, because it struck me in the conversation about race that

everyone was white? >> we never really had. >> have you checked of the demographics of this area? >> is it all whites? >> we're in the 90s, well, which is an odd thing because we live in -- we border brockton, which is predominantly i would say minorities, which are really the majorities now. i mean, how you reach out to say that they're welcome, they're welcome? i mean, how do welcome make them to feel that they're welcome? how do you do that? i mean, yeah, that's a good question. i'll have to think about that. it's the same question as why we live right next to brockton and we don't have a larger population of blacks. >> other than kingston. and there's not that large population of blacks in the county of kingston. the civil lake region high school is the fourth or fifth lease diversified high school, with, you know, 1500 kids in it. i mean, there are a few

families, but why? yet, you go into brockton, or you go into the cities you tend to find a larger minority community. is it because those minorities feel more comfortable there? i don't know. i don't have the answers. >> facing the rising sun, of our new day begun. ♪ ♪ ♪ let us march on until victory is won. >> they say shadow beneath our hand. may it forever stand. true to our god, true to our native land. see, you guys were tricky. my native land, what does it make up?

>> our land. what does us mean to you? what was reconstruction? when was it? >> after slavery. >> after slavery, yes,. after the civil war. this is when black people tried to teach america how to have a real democracy. during reconstruction, black people who were able to vote in the south, and they got in the state legislatures and passed laws. to say things like, everybody should go to school for free. white people, yeah poor white people too. this man like here, came out of slavery in virginia. he came to d. c. as a congressman from virginia. this man was born into slavery. -- i mean, it's congressman langston now. that's why i love reconstruction. we have real heroes. are we any different than these people were? >> no.

>> no we're not. you know what's different? we just don't remember. my name is greg carr. anyone associate professor and general department of african studies here at howard university. >> and what connection do you have to the history of the civil war and reconstruction? >> well, in addition to the direct history, my ancestors have been brought here from north carolina and alabama. no civil war veterans in my direct family, but we were enslaved in alabama. so obviously, coming out of a civil war, my family, share croppers, coming in the era of jim crow, great migration moving throughout the south. you know, i'm a living part of that stream of history. and as a professor here at howard university, and particularly in africa american studies, which is the steady and area i work in, i devoted a great part of my work to understanding the implications of the civil war and reconstruction, in terms of contemporary american life. what's this right here?

deed of sale. these are reconstruction era documents. most people in the country don't know anything about that. you can all say, we start sale of the land. >> you are the only teacher i found who is focused on the free peoples point of view, when teaching reconstruction. how does teaching from that point of view make a difference for your students? >> well i hope they walk up with with a sense of human purpose that they have a stake in. there's always the threat of forgetting, in terms of national memory. when you start talking about a settler state, like the states that came out of a settler quantity colony, with many different people. there's almost a requirement from getting, a violence for getting, in order to force a type of unity of culture, unity of national identity. so the word work that needs to be done is to recognize our full history. that story will make you so proud, and also break your heart.

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i look at the mississippi archives and history. i created a website with the picture of every her snorkel marker in the state. >> have you take a picture of the human rights marker? >> i have taken a picture of that marker, i know exactly where it is, near the rebel traffic lane. >> that's right. tell me what you know? >> i think that the clinton right market is particularly important because there was a right during reconstruction in the town of clinton, and it was not in the history books that i read growing up studying the

suffolk history a public schools. reconstruction in america, not just mississippi is one of the most overlooked and underappreciated historical areas. and the people who wrote about it afterwards, north and south, wrote about it mainly from a white supremacy point of view, whether they were from ohio, michigan, alabama or mississippi. there was lots of violence throughout american reconstruction against african americans. it's a terrible time in our history from that perspective. it's a great time, again, of experimentation with providing the rights of citizenship and political equality to african americans. unfortunately, through the lens of white supremacy, that was too much for a lot of white people to take during that time. >> are there any other markers in mississippi that acknowledge white violence against african americans? >> the only marker of which i'm aware that exists, that depicts the talks about white violence

against black people during reconstruction is the clinton riot marker. >> in mississippi? >> in mississippi. >> my name is missy jones. my title is a visiting a of history at mississippi college. >> -- >> almost 15 years now, if i think back. >> what is this? >> this is johnson milling company. it's been here for ages. but right behind it is the location of the old train depot, and the thought was that we would put the marker for the clinton riot here because of the importance of the train. >> the clinton riots began on september 4th, 1875, and the direct behind me tells a virgin of those events. the original train depot is

where white paramilitary units flocked into clinton. there was a political valley, and it was one of the first times that african americans had gotten together to really listen to political candidates, and it was organized by the republican party. but there was also a group of white democrats who were sent there to disrupt things. shooting out african american families began to flee the scene, even one mother left her child in hollow of a tree just for protection. and over the course of the next several days, white liners began to flood into clinton, and then systematically, round up those, and organized the rally, and then killed them, sometimes in front of their own family members. >> so this is a group of white democrats killing the black republicans? >> correct. it was the plan of the white democrats to keep african americans from voting. the violence served as a

pretext for the return of white rule, and the end of reconstruction in mississippi. >> do you feel like people know that this marker exists? >> no, i don't. just given where it is behind this old mill, i feel like it has the potential to look hidden, and that was my fear with placing it here. i would definitely prefer it to be in a more prominent location, because this event is by far the most important event that ever took place in the city. >> the clinton riot has always been one of these contested events. for years and years and years, it's been told that it was caused by african americans, that they were gonna take back the city, at the cost of women. for essentially 140 years, the

history was told incorrectly. and the violence was blamed on the black members of the clinton community. >> my name is james robinson. i'm from here in clinton. lifetime residents, except for a few years. >> i'm debra. james is my cousin. >> this picture here, my grandmother's grandmother. when she was caught in the proximity of the clinton riot in order to save her child, they hit the child in the tree. and then after, they went back in and got the child. as the article says, old clinton history told from tales by ex slaves. this was published in the newspaper in 1961. >> as far as the black citizens in clinton, you don't hear a lot about our history.

a lot of times i like to think our elders have tended to just discuss things them amongst themselves, as opposed to bringing it to the forefront. because they can stir up a lot of emotions. >> and what's the result of stirring up emotions? >> you get a lot of good, and you get some bad. >> what's bad? >> the fact that somebody could vandalize it if you put up anything. >> i just hope that doesn't happen in clinton. there's still a lot of racist attitudes. >> there are some that, and i'm thinking about missy. when i first met missy, she said, the first word that came out of her mouth was nigger. and her parents were so proud of her. when she said that word, because that myth that you knew you were in superior to somebody else. >> you've been so dedicated so long, you've dedicated so much care in time and effort to this. why do you care about this? >> i'm gonna get emotional.

but i grew up in a family in mississippi. my dad was from new york. my mom's family was from south mississippi. 90% white, 10% black, still segregated in the ways in which people in the communities live. but i was raised in a racist family, a racist community at the time in which i grew up, and things have changed in a good bit now. but for me, i think that i don't want to repeat that. i feel responsibility with the profession that i've chosen to tell things accurately, and to not repeat generational incorrectness with my own family. i want to do something different.

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this film that i've come to say that that story was totally let's light. based on what supremacy means the guys and white roads. but it means not even recognizing that we're only telling white stories. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> during the reconstruction era, there was fear all over the place. white fear of those black majority populations was colossal. so many white southerners saw this idea of black people serving on juries. black people only land is an intolerable revolution. and it necessitated a counter revolution, even if it necessitated the use of terror, use of violence. a lost cause tradition was a response to that tremendous fear. we like to go to bed at night, believing our society is in

social order. i don't have to worry about my child tomorrow being confronted by totally unusual and repugnant ideas, or totally unusual and repugnant people. i am safe by the history i know. so, the lost cause tradition that southerners developed this story for their explanation of their defeat. it came ultimately a victory narrative. victory over reconstruction. and they crushed the very idea of slavery as the central cause, and the very idea of emancipation of 4 million slaves as the central result of the civil war. they began to see white scale, even official efforts, to crush what we might call black memory. >> if we throw away our confederate flag, we throw away

the history of south carolina and of the united states. >> we are true southerners, i guess. to me, it's a flag that everybody, black and white, represent their heritage, can understand to some degree how they would've been upset years ago. 130 years ago. [noise] [noise] [noise] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] >> wide only, no black! send them home!

>> a horrific scene in charlottesville, virginia. a white mob descended into deadly violence and chaos. >> since the city voted to remove the robert e. lee statue, there have been protests. and now, violence. >> tell me, who are you? >> i am stephanie roth, and i am an assistant professor of history at a college in jackson, mississippi. the images that we are seeing on our computers and our own phones and television, you can't divorce this from the need to return to some sort of innocent pass. >> what like the old south? >> yes. >> what is the old south? >> after the civil war, the old south myth is this mythologized place of big plantations, houses with currently and and modulus and hoopskirts, and southern gentlemen and happy slaves.

everyone is well taken care of. some people are owned by other people, but everyone is well fed, well clothes, loved and appreciated. and that is not -- this is why something like this would appeal to white northerners, because that's not the environment that they lived in. >> it's really a story about the merits of white supremacy. you know, i saw another history, and it said it was really white supremacy that helped the north and the south reunify after the war. isn't that true? >> i fully believe that when we're talking, even across the spectrum from the coming of the civil war, to the prosecution of, it and the aftermath, i think it's much more proactive approach to describe and understand white supremacy, that it is to even talk about slavery. slavery doesn't survive, but white supremacy does. the war ends, reconciliation has been achieved. what happens unexpectedly is

that in that reconciliation, the nation itself embraces the confederacy. and the memory of the confederacy. this is why by the time you get to the 1930s, people from all over the country are coming to places like mississippi, to tour homes. and the same woman in hoopskirts, and people dressed up as enslaved persons. this is a vacation for them. do you think of a cultural footprint of this today? where the south gets sort of franchised. >> great second through fifth, we go every year through the plantation. >> and what does that tour include? >> it included a tour of the plantation. they also i'd like a little show put on.

people dressed up and stuff, and saying songs. playing music. it was almost like a little party. >> are they towards an anyway engaging enslavement? >> they don't really talk about the slavery part. i used to look forward to going to the plantations. it was a big deal. >> i mean, can we even think about these plantations as spaces of violence? we think about things like confederate monuments or symbols and flax, all of these remembrances are white visions. those are renewals of white supremacy. and in my mind, keeping that confederate battle flag in the top left corner of mississippi state flag, it's a way to keep that narrative alive, and it's threatening, because if we lose it, what happens to our memory? ♪ ♪ ♪

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i served in the mississippi house of representatives for district 84, about 16,000 people in the whole county. everybody knows everybody. everybody knows, i'm not here to argue the design of the flag. that is not my intent. some universities took the flag down. in state dollars and in public universities, and you should display whatever that symbol is. >> do you think this is an issue that matters to the people in your district? >> yes, ma'am. >> why? >> i just think it's a heritage, it's a history. there's a big movement to remove confederate history.

well, it's part of history. you know, where and when is enough? >> do you feel like slavery was something that was in the past, let's move on? or do you feel like slavery still has an effect today? >> it's over. and it is part of history, it's part of the past. i don't know any person that owns a slave, or has been a slave. to this day. i think we're gonna make it a major issue, as long as we keep rubbing it in from the standpoint of the minority saying, well, we were slaves and mistreated. i understand that. what the hell you want me to do about it? i'm sorry. i wasn't there. i'm 50 years old. i wasn't there. >> and what do you say to historically black universities that say, we're not gonna fly this flag because it's a symbol of slavery? do you think about their point of view? >> it is a state flag of mississippi. >> but if they say it actually hurts us, it deeply offends us.

it represents something that gives us pain. what do you say to that? >> i don't say the pain in the symbol. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> new orleans is just the latest city to start taking down historical, but controversial monuments. many say that celebrates slavery and confederacy. [crowd chanting] >> all right. >> we here to celebrate the taking down of the jefferson davis statue here in new orleans tonight. these were all jim crow era statues, meant to emphasize that white people are in control. >> there is no value in keeping those statues.

there is value in remembering for what these statues were put up for. >> what do you say to people across this state, marching with confederate flags? >> i don't say nothing to them. they are not on my radar. they are unruly unbelievable, as far as i know. >> we pray, oh lord, for those who are attacking our heritage me for their since. we pray our lord the truth of history would triumph. >> i feel like the country never really were unified after the war, in a way that included all of its citizens, right? like maybe taking down these statues now could help us reunify. >> but don't try to take away history, because you don't agree with it. and if you really studied history, you see it was more than just slavery. there was taxation issues. >> well, then, do you put on a bulletproof vest? >> probably. >> why? >> because they were firing paintball the other night. sounds harmless, but who's to

say that they don't tryall thest of town. >> these are visitors from out of town, who are confederate supporters. and they come here to occupy a city for a couple of weeks and stand their ground. and all that good stuff. >> but isn't the goal to have more people feel represented? i mean, don't you need to listen to each other? they say that statues is a southern pride. >> fuck white pride! the source of all this tension and anger comes from the african americans history, bloodlines cost families for hundreds of years. the way they're upholding, okay? so if you can't balance that in your mind, then i can't do anything for your lack of iq or common sense, i'm sorry. >> it's not about race. this has never been about race. we feel like we're having our history stolen from us. this was our only confederate person, and he died here. >> a diverse neighborhood -- >> how is it an inanimate object this simple effect to so that that you cannot see it --

[noise] [inaudible] ♪ ♪ ♪ >> dear god, our heavenly father, we thank you for your love and grace and your mercy. and please, bless us during the coming hours, as we pay homage to our ancestors, the 15,265 souls that gave their lives to defend the great state of mississippi. for christ sake, amen our next speaker is someone that i really appreciate, and he's got backbone.

and that has got people to stand up. mr. williams shirley, would you come say a few words? give him a hand. [applause] >> the flag means a whole lot to me. you are not gonna take the damn flag down. i'm gonna do all that i can do, and i suggest that you find your legislator, make your ear known for him or her, because we all in the mississippi house are gonna get to vote on amendments again and again and again. and they don't get tired to see it. and they're gonna try to get somebody to replace people like me they just don't go along with the boss man. if you take state dollars, you fly the flag in the state of mississippi. [applause] >> thank you, all. [applause] >> -- >> political correctness is an incredibly dangerous doctrine. it's anti-intellectual.

it's anti-dissent. it demands conformity. do you believe they'll stop at the monument? do you think they'll stop with a pattern and design of the flag? they ridicule our traditions. they mocked us. they laugh at us. you feel like you're losing your country, don't you? you feel marginalized. you're scared. mississippi has to stand. we have nothing else to surrender. we are those lawyers, men and women of the soil, stubborn, courageous. we stand here on the edge of history, ready to push back one more time. help is not coming from california. it's not coming from massachusetts. it has to be you. what are you gonna do about it?

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there is the tremendous fear of a world that seems to be flowing into disorder in these teaming new cities, full of these immigrant speaking unusual languages. maybe the question should just be left to the south. we've always known how to handle the race question.

at the same time, there will be over 9 million african americans, mostly in the south, there is no longer the system that kept us all contained. white southerners need to keep this burgeoning black population on the land, as laborers, not engaging in educational advancement. they need a new system to keep them there. the solution and the south was a system of jim crow laws. everything from schooling to voting, to transportation, public accommodation, every element of life is now going to be segregated. lots of white americans, north or south, can unify around segregation as a way to keep society at social order.

the way in which this culture became within the first half century after the war, an american north south reunion without racial justice, left a deep set of legacies. we are of course, still struggling with. and every time we think we have so much of this put aside, we're suddenly reminded that we don't. >> the only way today we'll see a new, more inclusive reunion of americans, is if there is a coalition of interests that stops looking only at their own individual interests, and sees themselves in these four or five issues, and sees themselves and other people. okay. >> we just gonna connect the recording.

>> if you can change the frame to -- >> if i were gonna make a movie about you, what do you want to make sure that i include? >> i want you to show like, the great things that i'm capable of. like, yeah, if i do something -- i am a great football player, but i'm also smart in the classroom. i try to -- just trying to be great, and i hope i'm trying to make some difference in my life. i'm trying to be successful. >> to be honest with you, when i went through, there are people who just look at the good things, look at the good things. but i'd rather you see what the negativity was. so it's like counter acts, but here is the bad, and here's where i'm good now. all in the good zone, when i'm saying is more like you don't just tell half of my story. i'd rather you tell the whole

story. >> there was this one teacher that once described me as, yeah, i think it was sympathetic. i thought she called me pathetic when she said that. >> it might have been -- >> empathetic, yeah. at the end of the day she was like, we know, we all have feelings. we all have history that nobody else knows about. and yeah -- >> i was certainly not taught this way my high school. [laughs] >> neither was i. >> i got shocked when i find students of a certain age who haven't seen gone with the wind, and i point them to it. you need to watch that film. >> you watched a movie of all-time! people are eating this stuff up. like, there's a real reason why

people have weddings on plantations, right? like, you would never go to auschwitz and be like, let's get married. like, you would never do that. but we have so made a black pain and suffering like a place of our enjoyment, a place that feels good to us, a place that feels familiar to us, that we don't pay attention to the suffering. we don't pay attention to why it's problematic. >> i know you talked about the force and your presentation, but how do you define freedom for yourself? >> i have been conditioned to think about emancipation as an ending point. so i realize that freedom was not just liberation. freedom was like owning your humanity, operating on your full humanity, being recognized for your full humanity. i think that the spirit of slavery that he talked about before, that makes a color a

mark of degradation, is still very much with us. and i think for too long. racism has been put on people of color to solve, when this is not really like the people of color issue. this is white supremacist issue, or why people need to talk to other white people about how they can overcome these issues. white allies today have to take a very radical stance, and that they can't just, you know, but up the bumper sticker of black lives matter. are you gonna allow your child to be one of the few whites and all black schools? are you gonna be vested in that school, to make sure that not just your child, but every child in that community gets a fair shape? to balance like this great injustice that has taken place for hundreds of years, it requires sacrifice. i don't know when that will look like exactly for you, or for each person. it's different, i think. now, there's skyrizi. ♪things are getting clearer♪

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cemetery. this is where most african americans in the city were buried. it was in operation from 1891 through 1970. one day, i saw in the paper an article about an abandoned cemetery, i thought i can't believe that there is a place here that's so rich in history, and i did not know about it. and so, i used the map on one of the newspaper, and drove over to the cemetery. and found this beautiful place. and immediately felt the need to organize some community cleanups to bring attention to it. many african americans that were buried here were not slaves. and so, they could be buried and recognized in different ways. but there's a very interesting cemetery called beck knobs cemetery, that's located on the north side of the town. and it was a slave cemetery.

and when you look at how overgrown it is, it's almost sad that you can almost drive pass it and not even know it. >> would you take us there? >> i can take you there, but don't know how much will be able to see, because it's really overgrown. >> wow! >> i knew i wasn't crazy.

look how close this line is to that. >> what has been the most important story that you've talked about in history class, so far this year?

>> well, slavery was bad. you just don't feel guilty because it's something that happened. >> but we interviewed a kid from estonia, and he has white skin. and his family wasn't even here. should he feel guilty about it? >> we'll, if he's living in our country now, then i think he should feel a little guilt, because it's still part of his--it's still part of his history, because now he's part of our country. and he should feel a little guilt, i think. >> is guilt useful? >> yes. >> tell me why? >> because it helps us understand that what we did was wrong, and we shouldn't go back to doing it. and we should fix our ways so we can do better in the future. >> i, personally, like, slavery was, like, morally wrong, you shouldn't own other people.

it's not something that should happen. but i see the reasoning behind it. and i can understand it, and not accept it, but i see like behind it, i guess. >> i think a lot depends on whose eyes are looking through, right? like are we talking about a white point of view or a black point of view? a lot depends on who you are, i think. >> i want to know what your perspective of the whole slavery situation, how you feel like, because you know you've been raised, and like, how do you feel when people -- >> i feel like it was wrong. i feel like it was deeply wrong. but i also feel like i never learned about slavery as a white story. most people around me, we never

talked about slavery as something like people did and benefit from, you know? it was always presented as something that's always, that just happened. >> i'm want to introduce abraham kennedy. abraham you argue that the current threat of racist is more insidious now than it has been in the past. >> precisely, just as lincoln said that the nation will either become all one or the other, being slavery or anti slavery, that could see the same reason for racism and anti racism. >> if we see america's history of steady racial progress, that we have now reached the mountaintop, racism is no longer critical and important. we're also saying the cause of racial inequities today is not

racism, cause we've moved beyond racism. it's the inferiority that particular people that are not working hard enough. there is a racist idea that is still very prominent within the community of people you consider themselves liberal, even progressive, or even radical. the oppression in theory is feeding the thesis. first, it was slavery making black people into groups. right now, it's poverty. this idea about that racism itself, or discrimination, wasn't just sort of harming people, but it was literally leading to inferior behaviours.

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>> it seems to me that one of the major challenges for you as the history teacher would be teaching in a way that connects with such a diversified body. >> yes, it is. >> it's kind of like a nation in miniature. because they did start as a segregated all male institution. >> yeah, it's the oldest school in the country. it was founded in 16 35 by a portion of the population of boston, england. it was all male, it was all white. it was all people of privilege. >> you know, have really come to believe that part of the purpose of history to tell the story that makes us. but in order for that story to work, we have to see ourselves as being in the same spot we begin with. >> yeah.

>> we have to see ourselves as connected to other people. >> i really agree. >> so in your class today, how do you tell a story that helps the kids see themselves as connected to all the diverse people that surround them. >> well, it's important to talk about race and history. and i want gets to understand that where we are today has its roots in the past, but it's really hard to convey the history of this country how it plays out today. and it's really difficult to talk about race. how do you actually help kids be different than our generation, who doesn't really know how to do this very well. the only way to do that is by having them do it. >> okay, i want to know which went into place after reconstruction. look at integration in schools. they treated by juries. those are the kinds of things that how are we doing it now, we'll put the school segregation folks in that corner. we'll put the jury selection folks in the back corner.

>> the black voting rights, i found that the 15th amendment, it gave african american males the right to vote, but they kept finding loopholes to keep them from voting. and today, 13% are prohibitive, because they have served in prison. >> yeah. >> well, i guess i'll say, since we're running out of time, i just think talking about this is really not helpful. because i mean, what it does is it puts people in unproductive mindset's, because what it does is it makes white people feel guilty, and it makes black people feel like victims. >> don't go anywhere. and i want to know what people want to say back to that, because i think it's important that you have a chance to say something. some gonna go with injury on a first. >> like if you're tweeting

differently because of something you can't change, why won't you be a victim. you don't have to talk about something to feel a certain way. yes. >> i see all these hands and we have a bill. and i'm so sorry that's gonna have to stop this. but we will pick this up. look, right where you are, put your hands in the air. this is where we start tomorrow. how do you feel about the conversation in section 41? >> terrified. >> the idea i want to dismantle is that there is like a system in place, like benefits, it benefits white people and like has a negative effect on black people. >> i don't want to squash this child. he's, you know, bringing

sincere, you know, and rigorous -- i think the word he used was logic. he's thinking about it logically. and logic says that there's gotta be a reason for that. but he doesn't have an answer when i say, you know, so what might be the reason, if you think it's not systemic racism that has caused this. what is the reason? and he says, i don't know. >> you shouldn't have suffering to blame your problems on. and i don't think, i don't think that's a good thing. asian americans here, they have a hard time, but they still succeed. >> that's gonna be continued tomorrow, and i'm gonna spend my time thinking tonight, what am i gonna say that respect how hard this kid is thinking about these things, which is exactly what i want him to do, and still push back a little bit and say, you know, so, i think you're missing some of the picture here. in a really important way.

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the jim crow area which was written by michele pro alexandra, so, as you're reading through that i want to thinking, how did they recreate it class based on race after reconstruction? >> black people in prison, they auctioned off prisoners to the highest bidder. >> there was a loophole about slavery in the 13th amendment. did anyone catch that? >> yes, they outlawed slavery

but it was fit as a punishment for crime. >> but she is trying to say is that the criminal justice system, it is literally like the same thing as jim crow. which is her point. >> i think i would say it's a new iteration of it. that's what we're really trying to look at. it's the ways that is still with us. >> that's assuming that jim crow has a presence today. yes, that's your assumption. and that is not my assumption. asian americans are routinely discriminated when applying for colleges. they have to get about 400 sat points higher than black people. and, also, they're discriminated against when they're applying for jobs. your mind is so closed off to certain ideas. >> we'll continue. we will continue. >> i love that you hang in there. >> they are not willing to consider certain ideas because they've been taught that those ideas are -- >> yes, but is the certain idea that you really suggesting that asians are better than black

people. that's not what you're really saying, is it? >> i mean, i'm not saying that they are inherently better. i'm just saying that their situation is better right now. >> but, what would you attribute that to? >> higher income. higher representation in colleges and in -- >> but why do you think they have that, and why do you think black people don't? >> i don't know. i mean, asians are discriminated much more in those areas because -- >> than black people? >> yes. >> we will agree to disagree on that point. but, we will come back to it. okay? >> okay. well i hope you will look into it. >> i will look into it. good. thank you. it's a revelation to me that no matter how much information you present, sometimes people are going to hear it the way they want to hear it. and they are not going to budge, at least not yet, he's not.

>> but, that is exactly what you're in for when you open the door to having these kinds of conversations. that is what is hard to navigate. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we are celebrating confederate heroes day, it's a texas state holiday, celebrated on the 19th of january every year, which is also robert lee's birthday. >> the bill was filed by a representative from pensacola. it says that a memorial cannot be moved unless it needs to be refurbished. >> this monument, right here, outside of the old courthouse in downtown pittsboro was given to the county by the daughters of the confederacy back in the early 1900s. >> i mean, the fact that the statue states, a lot of

ancestors of mine have fallen and died. and they did not die for slavery. they had no slaves. [applause] [noise] [noise] [applause] >> the story starts with seeing the monuments. but it's also about being in this black body. what does that feel like? to have your country, your nation say that this is what we stand by. no!

we want more. we demand more. we say yes to something that looks like us. we say yes to inclusivity. we say yes to broader notions of what it means to be an american. ♪ ♪ ♪