everybody, good afternoon, i'm

yasmin vossoughian. tensions between the u.s. and china reaching a dangerous point. after meeting between both of the country's top diplomats over this buying balloon controversy. >> i can tell you know, there was no policy, but, what i can also tell you if this was an opportunity to speak very clearly, and very directly, about the fact that china sent a surveillance balloon over our territory. violating our sovereignty, violating international law. and i told them quite simply, that was unacceptable. and can never happen again. >> on the ground in ohio, lawsuits now starting to be filed by residents worry that government is not telling them the truth. about the danger for that massive train derailment. former president jimmy carter at home and getting hospice

care as his family is gathering around him. plus what comes next for mike pence? as the former vice president refuses to testify to the special counsel investigating his former boss. all of that, plus speci first anniversary of the start of the war in ukraine. we start though with that meeting between secretary of state antony blinken and these chinese counterpart described as quote unquote tense. it came in the wake of this by balloon controversy, and as msnbc news reported china may be providing non lethal aid to russia, in its war with ukraine. nbc's reporter on, this in front of the white. monica it's always good to talk to you. what more do we know this hour, about this meeting, yesterday evening, it seems, just breaking on the air. as i was speaking with courtney kube, she was in munich at the time, breaking the story for us. about china's aid to moscow.

>> exactly, yasmin, and all of these stories are really pretty connected if you look at this. the fact that secretary blinken was meeting with his chinese counterpart, that was high stakes in terms of the face to face nature given all of the tension over the tight -- chinese by balloon. in fact, secretary blinken was going to be traveling to china and had to postpone the trip because of the incident. and then there was all this mounting pressure to seek when the u.s. and china were going to come together and talk about. it through the course of this meeting, we understand it lasted about an hour. there was another important topic on the agenda. this was something that the u.s. has now continued to call china out for. which, is they say they were not being very forthcoming, with their true position on russia's invasion of ukraine. saying, one thing publicly, which is that they're trying to work on a way to achieve peace and end the conflict, but privately, as you just mentioned, u.s. officials are very worried about the nonlethal aid that china is already giving to russia, in

their war against ukraine, and now we're hearing from secretary blinken that we believe the u.s. has assessed it's possible to go even further with that, in terms of china supporting russia in this battle. so take a listen to how the u.s. is framing the stakes this season. >> china is having it both ways. publicly, they present themselves as a country striving for peace in ukraine but privately, as i said, we've seen already, over these past months the provision of nonlethal assistance that does go directly to aiding and abetting russia's war efforts. and, some further information that we are sharing today, and that i think will be out there soon, that indicates that they are strongly considering providing lethal assistance to russia. >> and when secretary blinken makes that distinction about the nonlethal versus lethal, he is talking about possible

ammunition and artillery that would go again to russia in this fight against ukraine, coming from china. we heard a little bit more from the u.n. ambassador to the united states, thomas-greenfield earlier this morning, on the sunday show as well. she was very clear that when the chinese do decide to go in that direction, she said there would be severe consequences. and that is something that she indicated, that secretary blinken made very clear in his meeting last night in munich. >> monica alba flores, thank, you also, secretary blinken made an official visit to southeastern turkey today, to tour the earthquake damage, and discuss how the u.s. can further aid the country. blinken did announce an additional $100 million and help for both turkey and syria, on top of the $85 million just announced last week. the death toll there now announcing -- topping 44,000 from the devastating earthquake, more than two weeks ago. blinken is scheduled to hold further bilateral talks on monday. let's talk ohio, if we can, for

a moment. concern as residents are continuing demand answers, up to two weeks after that hazard -- 50 car train derailment in east palestine, ohio. it's coming as norfolk southern was on the weekend, telling the community he was terribly sorry for what happened. nbc's george solace is in east palestine with more on this. >> the story and east palestine is still the concerns over the air and the water. now we know fema is now on the ground there, they're embedded with members of local and state teams here already helping the residents. they want to be a presence here providing any resource they can for the impacted residents. , now yesterday, ceo alex draw was also here in town. meeting with community members. meeting with residents. conducting interviews with local affiliates, local media,

telling them he was reaffirming his commitment to help with the cleanup, community they are not going anywhere. they are still going to be offering those payments through the residents of this community. the company says they have shelled out some 2 million or so, to residents of that number, expected to grow. also we know that in the coming, days the health clinic will be set up in town, to address those residents health concerns. it's still tbd as far as a location but they know they'll be offering health and mental health services. a lot of people in this community are raising concerns about their pets, their livestock, we have warning from officials here that people should take any pets, or any types of ailments, to the veterinarian for a checkup. we know there is extensive cleanup happening at the derailment site a number of rows throughout town are closed. things are starting to sort of wake up here in town, we know a

number of elected leaders and politicians will be visiting the town in the coming days. we also received word that the former president donald trump will also plan to visit east palestine this week. he's palestine, excuse me. there's going to be a lot of momentum in town, these coming days as far as safety goes questions about what can be done, people here in this community simply wants some transparency about the type of cargo that is moving through their town. back to you. >> george solis for us, thank you. well wishes. pouring in after the announcement that former president jimmy carter has begun hospice care at his home in georgia, following a series of recent hospitals days. his foundation saying, 39th president of the united states wants to spend his remaining time at home with his family. at 98 years old, carter is the longest living president in u.s. history. joining me now, msnbc's --

own carter's hometown of planes, georgia. if you'll take us there. i understand you're hearing from the, churches will former president used to teach sunday school. >> yeah, that's right, yasmin, he taught sunday school here at the stretch for more than 40 years, and we were there, as they held a service today. this is a very small, close knit, church only around a couple dozen people were in attendance today and we heard the pastor there deliver a prayer, we lifting the family of president carter up, today,, and specifically, rosalynn carter with everything that is going on here. and then we had an opportunity to speak to some of those churchgoers, as they were leaving the service today. many of them with a heavy heart as they referred to the man who they call mr. jimmy. and talked about how much they loved him. i want to play some of those conversations. >> if you were his friend, you were so blessed.

and if he was your friend, it was a greater blessing. there is nothing bad about the man that i could ever say. >> he kind of had become like a second father to me, when my father passed away. you know, he probably does anything because of that. but when he had his 90th birthday, he >> we all met, and i told him happy birthday, he gave me the most genuine hog eye verhalen. and i remember that hug to this day. and i will never forget it. >> and we are hearing those stories not just from the people who knew or who no president carter so well, but also just across the town. he speaks to business owners here, one of them told me that president carter and his wife for the first people to visit him when he opened up shop here

more than 25 years ago. and i also met i woman who was driving through on a road trip on her way to tallahassee florida, and when she heard the news that the former president had gone under hospice care,, she felt the need to make a detour and to be here to visit his hometown and this was a black family that i was speaking to. i asked her why it was important for her to be here, and she said because of all the president carter has stood for, i said what do you mean by that? she, said he was the president and a politician for all people. so so much love for him and his families, they are going through this as he prepares -- remaining days here in a place where he was born. >> suddenly, the former president, and his wife, rosalynn, are an integral fabric of that community. thompson for, us thank you. still ahead this hour, everybody -- >> i'm not going anywhere. i'm not going anywhere, i'm going to protect this, and i'm

going to train myself and to be able to do it the best way i can. >> ukrainian parliament member, kyra riddick, exactly one year ago, since then, ukrainians from all walks of life of stalled, what it was expected to be an easy win for vladimir putin. how is that now affecting his grip on power domestically? retired lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, former ambassador bill taylor on how they see the war playing out here. special coverage, ukraine. warm one year later, we'll be right back. b right back on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack. switch to a king suite- or book a silent retreat. silent retreat? hold up - yeeerp? i can't talk right now, i'm at a silent retreat. cashback on everything you buy with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback?

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until 2024 financing. this very hour the world was waiting for the inevitable already. >> we have reason to believe the russian forces are intending to attack ukraine in the coming week in the coming days. >> days later we did just that. russia was invading ukraine in the defiance of the national community but they got a lot more than they bargained for. >> we are going to protect the country, with or without the supporters in our path. >> a defined ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, transforming into the wartime president going toward a toe with vladimir putin.

and what was thought to be an overwhelming military force. ukraine not only survived, they thrived and began to win key victories against the russian army, bogging down their military designs, and even re-capturing cities. it is not without an incredibly tragic toll. >> a relentless bombing campaign, turning into ukrainian cities into kill zones. the situations leading to a humanitarian crisis, refugees looking for safe havens. facing difficult choices about where to go. just survive. >> i saw a picture of a dead girl, on the internet, and she was the same age. like my father. and i saw, it could be my kid

to. >> coming, up we introduce you to a mother who risked it all to come to the west with her mother and the family that took them. and that is ahead, on our special coverage on yasmin vossoughian reports. the ukraine war, one year later. i want to bring in nbc's news live for us chief correspondent in the a tourist ukraine. richard, it's always good to talk to you. as we look back over the last, year richard, you've covered this from the beginning until now. could you have imagined we will be where we are today? >> yes. >> richard you got me? >> i did, i'm sorry, i couldn't hear what you were saying before, i have to be dropped. i did not hear your question. but i hear you. now it's good to talk to you.

>> good to talk to as, well richard, you've been covering this war from beginning to end. and many wars not unlike. it as you kind of take a look back, right, as you -- what ukraine has experienced over this last year, could you have imagined we would be where we are today? >> i actually haven't covered many wars like, this i've covered many conflicts, but this war is very different. it's much more of a classic war, more akin to world war ii, then the wars in the middle east, and the warrants of our generation. which have been much more along religious lines, or ethnic, lens tribal lines, this is, this was a naked aggression. you had a country, under vladimir putin, that decided it was going to take over its neighbors. and a year ago, about 190,000 russian troops were assembled on the border, not all of them

crossed, in but the vast majority did. and there was a rush to kyiv. russian troops attacked from three, sides driving from the east where i am right now. driving from belarus in the north and driving up from crimea, to try to take over the country, and conquer it. so this was a war that putin launched to wipe out ukraine. he said that ukraine doesn't exist, it shouldn't exist, it's a historic anomaly. that this is really part of. russia and it must be brought to heel. its government must be overthrown. the government which he accused of being run by fascists and not. these ludicrous allegations. but as you were just, so swell laying out, it didn't go as planned. russian troops arrived at the gates of kyiv and were driven. back who would've expected that? military analysts, military intelligence officials, that i was speaking to, did not

expect. that the united states government, or it, large did not expect that. so much so that the u.s. had other countries, offering president zelenskyy safe passage out of the country, so that he could set up a government in exile and try and fight his way back into the country, back into power one day, perhaps. charles de gaulle seil. but this was not a conflict that i think a lot of people were prepared for. they didn't expect the reversal that the russians offer, they didn't expect that the russians would have such terrible logistics that the columns of tanks that they sent to topple kyiv would run out of gas. some of them being towed away by ukrainian tractors. so there have been. this has been a, i want to, say a steady surprise. but a steady learning experience, as we are now generationally going back, into a much earlier time. warm in the middle east, yasmin, you and i have talked about it

for years now on the air, a combatants generally don't wear uniform. you're talking about rebel groups, fighting against other rebel groups, for a variety of different reasons. here you have a militarized population. where the women and children were either sent to shelters or sent out of the country. the men were called to national service, in a state of emergency, martial law being in effect here, since the beginning of the conflict, and are sent out to trenches along the front lines. so, now i have not covered a war just like. this is not anything close to it. >> richard, as you call, it this naked aggression, which is such a brilliant way to put it from russian president vladimir putin, and his war on ukraine, and then this overestimation from the international community of russian military capabilities, which many admit now, it was the will and the determination of the ukrainian people that have kept the

russians really at bay, in so many areas throughout their country. do you see this well and determination now, at all dissipating? when -- one year in and it seems like the russian president will not stop? >> absolutely not, if anything, ukrainians are more determined than ever. they have no, choice if they, lose they lose everything. we have seen, and the world has seen, what has happened to parts of ukraine that fell under russian occupation. they were -- there were mass graves discovered. bodies were found with their hands found behind their backs, on the streets. this is a very brutal campaign, and ukrainians know that if they do this their country will be erased. the idea of ukrainian nationalism will go away. and in areas that were occupied,

you just talk about areas that were liberated, with the ukrainians able to push the russians out, i have a special coming, up this friday, where i spent quite a bit of time on a -- in a city that was under russian occupation for eight months. and we got to see what living under barack -- russian occupation was like. and what russia had in mind for the rest of the country. and it was eliminating everything that was ukraine. it was to dominate the people and to dominate the, place and to turn it into a new russian province. so that was what was at stake for the ukrainian people here, they don't have the option to lose face, and to lose faith. >> richard engel, always, my, friend please stay safe, and as richard just mentioned, i want to remind folks as well, you must tune into on assignment ukraine secret assistance with richard engel, friday tempe i'm eastern, right here on msnbc, and streaming on peacock. as well.

i want to bring in now two guests who have been with msnbc throughout our coverage of the war, from u.s. ambassador to ukraine bill taylor, and retired army commander alexander vindman who served as director for european affairs for the national security council, welcome to you both gentlemen. thank you for joining us on this. >> you just kind of heard t ambassador orchards take on the war in ukraine, throughout the last year. there were so many fascinating things that he pointed out. to me, it really, in the short term that we spoke. of course,, one describing the way in which vladimir putin invaded ukraine as this kind of naked aggression. and the ultimate goal is really eliminating everything that is ukraine, something that he has been unable to do. up until this point. what is it going to take for the russian president to stop? >> he has, and he's going to have to be convinced that he

cannot win. he is going to have to be convinced that his military is unable to overcome the ukrainian military. he has to lose on the battlefield. and he's been losing on the battlefield. he's been losing one after another. of the cities that he's taken, and then lost. because ukrainians have pushed them, out just as richard described. so when that is clear to, him that he cannot win, then this will. and until, then he will fight, but richard is exactly right. the ukrainians will never stop fighting. >> it's interesting you say, that ambassador, but i want to play for the both of, you know what you both said, as this war began. just a year ago. and then we will talk on the other side. >> frankly, it is not too early to assess the early states -- away the son folding, when russia achieves its day on objectives. and i would say the russians have underperformed. and the ukrainians have

overperformed. >> it's not a fair fight. ukrainians have been on those battle fronts for eight years. they're hardened, but the russian army is clearly superior. it is enormous. it's going to be brutal. it has been brutal so far. >> much of what the both of you said has remained accurate throughout the last year. i think, though many people, have gone on the record and saying, that they certainly overestimated the power or the organization skills, really of the russian army throughout the last year. and underestimated the abilities of ukrainian forces, on the ground, in their dedication to winning. alexander, if you can respond to what the ambassador just said, i find it interesting that it's going to take the russian president to understand that he cannot win in order to back off. i think some would assess that right now, he cannot win. that assessment is made, and yet he continues to push forward, despite the intense

amount of losses his own military has faced. >> sure, i think that the issue here is that the putin has steeped into world war ii history, and from his narrative, he believes that a long war suit. tim in reality, that is a false narrative. it is the side that conduct a surprise attack that gains momentum in the early stages that achieves its political aims mediately, that. winds in this case, russia failed to do that. and throughout the rest of this past year, russia has faced major setbacks. major reversals. he thinks that over the course of several years, if this continues that long, he will be able to break the resolve of the west to support ukraine, he will break the will of the ukrainian people, that is a false premise. and what is going to end up happening here, over the course of the next several months, is that russia is going to conduct another offensive. and it's going to burn through its effective combat power, and eventually run out of the military keep, ability to try

to advance. at which, point the ukrainians are going to take the initiative, they're actually maintaining the initiative right now. but they will switch the offense and liberate territory. when russia starts to lose ignorant territory, we will see, that probably in the, summer or by the summer, maybe as late as the fall. that is when he is going to be convinced that he has to negotiate to preserve whatever gate he, has mainly crimea. , but maybe too late to negotiate at that point. crimea may not be able to negotiate in the advantage, and liberate all the territory. >> so ambassador that is interesting, now we have, once he feels as if he has lost and once it seems as if he is losing territory, he will have to be brought to the negotiating table. so much of the analysis i feel as if we are hearing is based upon the fact that we are dealing with a logical individual. we all know that vladimir putin is not a logical individual. and he wants to win really, at all costs. i want to read for you analysis from the washington post. i want you to react to it if you can.

right in the u.s. needs to ramp up military support, but, quote -- futility of military -- only when -- kremlin grabs that victories impossible, then it cannot hold sovereign ukrainian territory, sees a legally, while negotiations be possible? i just keep asking myself when he actually has these converse, how self aware's volodymyr putin? that he has these conversations with themself to understand the futility of it all? >> i have not met president putin. and i don't know. him but i've talked to a lot of people who have studied him. no one says that they know him. no one knows what's on his head. or in his head, as you just asked. but he's not crazy. he's not suicidal. he makes decisions based on his own logic, which is clearly different from our. logic but you're right. and alex is right. and richard is right.

he wants to eliminate ukraine. that is an obsession with him, that's what seems to be going on in his head. so he won't stop until he is persuaded. he has shown, and he is convinced, that he cannot win. that's why we need to continue to support the ukrainian. so they can continue to fight. ukraine's don't want our soldiers, they want our weapons. they want our tools. they want our tanks. they want our aircraft. they don't want our pilots, they don't want to soldiers, the winner takes an aircraft. if we can give them that, they can convince vladimir putin, that he cannot win. >> the u.s. has committed to continued aid, alex, along with the international community as, well that we just heard of the meeting security conference. vice president harris had a pretty damning speech there as well, saying that russia has committed war, crimes and those responsible will be held to account. how does that happen? >> so one of the things that we started this conversation with

is this notion of surprises. what surprised me is how slow u.s. support has been to ukraine. not recognizing the long term risks. i think there's multiple points in this past year, that putin kept absorbing, blows his military kept losing territory, quickly, high margins arrived early here. planes arrived and we were given to ukraine. we can see him already kind of negotiation phase of this war. he not yet there. eventually, he's going to lose enough ground, enough personnel, that he gets. there is going to take quite some, time and he could get accustomed to this idea of losing territory. losing personnel. and feeding in this country of 140 million people. additional resources. that is what concerns, me the longer this, goes the harder it is going to be, to convince them to accept that it has lost, in order to preserve the regime, and seem skin withdraw from

ukraine, and live to fight in their day in his mind. i think that we are moving in that direction, but it is frankly a twos lull, and the rhetoric -- doesn't necessarily match the. actions were getting, there but it's taking too long. >> we have much more on this conversation ahead, all 11 mnn thank you, taylor, thank you. more, on the body, i, mentioned on the coverage from ukrainian history, in the next hour. up, next doj special counsel ukrainian -- former president trump, subpoenas up to mike pence, and chief of staff, mark meadows. we will be right back. we will be right back. (woman 1) i just switched to verizon business unlimited. it's just right for my little business. unlimited premium data. unlimited hotspot data. (woman 2) you know it's from the most reliable

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operation. powers >> my fight is against a doj subpoena. simply on defending the prerogatives as president of the senate. to preside over the joint session of congress on january six. for me, this is a moment where we had to decide. where do stand. and i stand on the constitution of the united states. >> all, right i want to bring in msnbc legal, analyst and former attorney joyce vance to talk more about this. so, let me read for, you joyce, this tweet, from jay michael luttig, he's a former federal judge, who advised pence ahead of january 6th, that he could not in fact overturn the results of the election, he tweeted, this if there are privileges and protections enjoyed by the vice president when he or she serves as the president of the senate during the joint session counting the electoral votes, those privileges and protections would yield to the demands of the criminal process so talk more about that choice. >> right judge luttig is joined

by a progressive conservative or progressive constitutional scholar laurence tribe in this view. in this judge luttig is conservative and professor is on the liberal end of the spectrum, and yet they agree there is no speech or doubly debate clause that would afford mike pence the ability to avoid testifying here. when you think about, it every time i hear that sound you play, yasmin, it makes me laugh and in sort of a dark, sardonic way. here is why. that's the vice president of the united states, claiming to stand on principle, knowing executive privilege will not prevent him from having to testify, and grasping for straws, hoping he can claim that he established the president of the senate will keep him from telling the truth. all of that suggests to me that there's a lot of mike pence doesn't have to be questioned about when he's under oath. >> i wonder how much of that it's actually a political play, knowing he wants to run for

president, of the united states i believe he is third in the polls right now. kind of around nikki haley, if in fact he wants to possibly retain the support of the trump base. he doesn't necessarily want the support of his former boss, but maybe it's more of a political play. who knows. all that being said, as we're watching the special counsel, watching jack smith, the move that he is, making the moves i should say that he is, making if you are subpoenaing the former vice president of the united states, anderson being -- subpoenaing the former chief of staff of the u.s. so it is that tell you about the direction of this investigation? >> some folks have characterized this as aggressive moves by the special counsel. but i disagree with that. these are moves you have to make, as a prosecutor these are two essential witnesses. closest to the former president, what he said when he was out of the spotlight you have to move out access to the testimony and

pin them down under earth. we have to know where they stand, and were the partial queue shun is -- ultimately fraud. >> i would love to hear the derek sardonic laugh, sardonic, how do you say? it sardonic? i would love to hear. it i've got to say. it sounds intriguing. >> i'll keep it off the air. >> all right thank you joyce, good to talk to. you mourn the first anniversary of the war in ukraine. n ukraine. >> simon-sounding in the capital city of kyiv last february with russia hoping to take hold of the capital city, a day that has not come one year later. failing to dominate this war, what would it take for the

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>> those are just a couple of vladimir putin's words of defiance and intimidation throughout this last year. since first sending his troops across ukrainian lines and initiating the largest war in europe in over 80 years, well over 800,000 russian troops have lost their lives. major personnel shakeups have happened within the kremlin. the russian economy have suffered from the heaviest sanctions anywhere in the world. putin may be keeping up a tough front but questions about what's really going on in the kremlin are mounting. -- molly, it's always great to talk to you about stuff like this. we try to dig into this a little bit at the top of the hour to try to get inside the mindset of the russian president amidst the major losses that he has seen militarily over the last year. i can't help but think about how oftentimes these analyses are made as if we are dealing

with an individual, that is something i said to ambassador bill taylor earlier. if he recognizes the loss of territory, he will acquiesce instead, sit at the negotiating table and come to an agreement and pulls out of ukraine. do you see a scenario like that playing out, considering who we are dealing with right now? >> based on the calculations i think you are considering, no. i don't think he makes those calculations the same way. i think you're right. through the lens of our logic, heavy losses, tightening economic sanctions, other internal factors, other external factors that the kremlin is having to deal with right now it seems like a no win and game is possible but, basically, for putin's it's a matter of consumable resources. they have aimless -- endless cannon fighter to throughout ukraine, and endless supply soviet-era armaments the throw at ukraine, they have information control to keep support for the war in the

country. for him, it's to wait us out. he is convinced ukrainian will and western support will break before his does. and thus, there is still a point in this really ridiculous pointless war that he's fighting. >> it seems as though from what we are hearing, the west has committed to continue to provide aid to ukraine on a unified front. they see what he's putting out there. it's also interesting the way in which he continues to justify this war. we played some of which he said 20 days ago or so. he glorifies the russian victory of stalingrad as the financial times reports, he's become somewhat obsessed with military history. saying, putin has tried to convince his own populace with apparent success that his actions are not only essential but justified historically.

what does that say about his continued mindset and dedication to this war and remaining in it? >> certainly, as you talked about on your show of alaska full of years, putin spent a lot of time building the narrative framework for the justification of what he's now doing in ukraine. he's written multiple long, long essays, sort of rewriting world war ii history in 2020 and 2021. he's given speeches since 2007, sort of slowly building this narrative toward a rewriting of the understanding of european security architecture and russia's place in that security architecture. all of that is coming to a head now in how he's addressing his own people and how he is addressing the west and the world about the reasons for the war, why he must keep fighting the war, this sort of turn about you hear from him where it's not the german tanks are

fighting us in ukraine again, as if he did not invade ukraine and require armaments to be sent to ukraine. he's built this information net within which his decisions are being made within which he is presenting his war to his own people. he's quite comfortable. it's been built over a number of years, and a quite detailed fashion. >> what do you make of this idea that putin is losing his grip on his inner circle, his grip of power on this inner circle? we learned of just this week a senior military official fell to her death in moscow. earlier this year, we know, of course, a complete overhaul of his military leadership as well. what do you make of that? how much strain does that put on the russian president? >> there's a couple different things happening. yes, certainly, if you are a senior russian official right now, just don't go off the first floor or near any windows is a pretty good rule. there is been a lot of micro analysis of who's, up who's

down, who's left, who's right, all these internal reshuffling. i don't think it indicates as much as we would like to see instability. i do think there's a lot of questioning of putin, of his mindset, how he is making decisions. but there isn't really a weakening of the power structures that he put in place. within different institutions, the institutions that maintain the circle around putin's military, security services, foreign service, all these other things, the lines of control are very structured and maintained within those. i think this hope that there is going to be a different rush on the horizon is just not coming anytime soon. >> great to talk to you. i hope you come back before the second a year anniversary, hopefully it will stop before then. we will have a lot more to talk about, you and i. coming up everybody in the next hour, roughly 8 million ukrainians fled their home country since the war started 12 months ago. we will dive into the evolution

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