welcome back. almost one year ago, amelia -- went viral with her rendition of let it go that she sang in a ukrainian bomb shelter. she and her family fled kyiv and made it safely to poland where she still performs. listen to this. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we hope she will be able to return to her home country sometime soon and continue to share her talents with the world. that wraps it up for me. i am yasmin vossoughian and i will be back next saturday and sunday at 2 pm eastern. i will also be in for hallie jackson at 5 pm, streaming on news now. simone starts right now.

>> greetings everyone. you are watching symone. this week marks one year since russia launched its brutal assault on ukraine. no end in sight. we are digging into the future of america's support of ukraine. biden prepares to travel to the region and now u.s. officials say china might be considering lethal support of russia's war effort. nikki haley has joined the former president trump and the republican primary for president in 2024. it is shaping up to be crowded, where her former boss is the man who beat. does nikki haley have a chance? we are asking one of her former staffers. plus, in our living black history series, my conversation with brian stevenson, a true champion for justice. he has helped free more than 130 wrongly convicted people from death row and he has not done yet. i am symone sanders johnson and i have something to say.

nearly one year ago vladimir putin was saying if russia were to invade ukraine, his troops would take kyiv in 48 hours. of course, putin did invade and things did not go as planned. february 24th will mark the one year anniversary of the war that has caused death, a humanitarian crisis, and the threat of war spreading to other countries. in spite of ukraine's remarkable defense of their sovereignty, what vladimir putin has done continues to offend democracy as we have known it since world war ii. the toll that the war has taken in the past year is in fact staggering. more than 7000 ukrainian civilians have been killed. at least 400 of them are children. 13,000 ukrainian troops have died in battle. 8 million refugees have fled ukraine. and despite intelligence from

the united kingdom saying about 60,000 russian troops have been killed, vladimir putin continues to send more. during the munich security conference this past week, vice president harris accused russia of committing crimes against humanity and promise that russia would be held accountable for its actions. she also said the united states is concerned about china becoming more involved in russia's war effort. and with secretary of state anthony blinken at the munich conference -- he drew a line in the sand. here is what he told chuck todd on meet the press this morning. >> we are very concerned that china is considering providing lethal support to russia in its aggression against ukraine and i made clear that that would have serious consequences in our relationship. >> i want to bring an admiral james -- former supreme allied commander at nato and an msnbc chief international analyst. and also, i want to bring in -- he is the editor in chief of

foreign policy. he joins from munich where the conference took place. thank you both for being here. admiral, i will start with you, because what kind of major consequences are we talking about if china gives lethal aid to russia? >> i think it would be a significant break in the relationship and xi jinping knows that. i think he will edge up close to that. he will try to extract some concessions and leverage. but at the end of the day, that would be a true deterrent in our relationship. so, could the united states do? we could step up our sanctions against the civic sectors of the chinese economy. particularly, microchips. we could enact further freedom of navigation patrols in the south china sea. we could put pressure across the spectrum in the world of cyber. we have a lot of options.

believe me. we do not want to go there. we want china to recognize they behavior of putin is fundamentally wrong. i think they will. but i am glad that our secretary of state is talking directly and consequentially to the foreign minister of china and i wanted to simply draw a line under your former boss, symone matt, i thought her speech was quite powerful and well received at munich. >> along those lines, we have had a lot coming out of the munich conference. we played vice president harris's remarks. they were remarks from president zelenskyy of ukraine, clips of lindsey graham. what was a black room meeting like -- what was the chatter on the side of the conference? >> the biggest backroom meeting was secretary -- meeting wang yi. everyone was glad of that. the secretary had to cancel his

meeting to china. no one in the world wants to see these two, the world's largest to autonomy is, the at loggerheads. everyone wants that relationship to ease. in a sense, that was the biggest back room meeting that everybody had an eye on. but much else emerged as well. the statements and support for ukraine. discussion amongst european leaders. most of them were here, if not them themselves, then their defense ministers, foreign ministers, to see if they could increase military spending. the aim is to deter russia from going beyond, from escalating beyond where they are right now. but also to ensure that other countries in the region can firm up their defenses to make it much less likely that putin would want to escalate. but the china question i think hung over this conference in a big way. even olaf scholz, the translator of germany. when he was speaking, he mentioned that he was worried

that the rest of the world is also looking at the war in ukraine and wondering what its role is. you can only imagine that in a u.s. china sort of era of competition, the rest of the world is even more worried if you consider the global south. >> it strikes me that we are again coming on the one year anniversary, why should this matter to americans? i ask that because y'all are my foreign policy military coups and i am not one, i just play one on television and used to do the talking points, but for people watching, why is what vladimir putin is doing to the people of ukraine, why should that matter to them, admiral? >> i will give you three things that i think anybody can grasp. first is, look at the horrific war crimes, we are talking about rape, torture chambers, attacking civilians, destroying critical infrastructure in the middle of winter.

certainly this is an unprovoked attack and the war crimes are significant. you heard vice president harris talk about that directly. number two, we do not want a world order in which big nations are allowed to simply cross borders and annex territory. down that path dot madness live for the entire global system. look back at world war ii in the aftermath of hitler's conquest. the japanese empire conquest -- and all that ensued. third and finally, i think we can all grasp in history, and also in our personal lives, you need to stand up to a bully and that is fundamentally what is happening here. >> absolutely. vladimir putin is one of the ultimate police. tomorrow, president biden is heading to poland, john kirby, from the national security council told my colleague this morning that the president will

speak in warsaw, encouraging allies to continue support of ukraine for many of the reasons that the admiral just laid out. what else do you believe that the president wants to accomplish on this trip? what are you hearing? >> well, it's a very symbolic visit. i think the fact that president biden is going back to poland will be seen as a shot in the arm for ukrainians, for the entire region. the fact that he is there, his speech will be symbolic, will be a declaration of u.s. support for europe. he's also going to meet the leaders of the so-called -- other leaders in the region. they will, all i think, want to make declarations of increasing their defense spending. making it harder and harder for putin to go any further than he has so far, to impose further cost on russia for what it has done so far. and to ensure it does not go any further. i think that symbol of unity will be very important. remember, this week, putin himself will be giving a speech

on the anniversary of the war. we will hear myths and disinformation directly from him, from the kremlin. in a sense, i think biden being able to be in warsaw and make a very clear declaration of intent, but also to debunk what the world will hear from putin will be very important. >> president biden giving a fact check. all right. i will be watching as we all are for his comments. admiral james -- thank you. and thank you -- appreciate your time today. >> you bet. >> coming up, y'all, on the domestic front, without emerging battle over the 2024 republican nomination, and the race for the white house. nikki haley has announced her candidacy. but will she really take on donald trump? we will ask two republican insiders. and before we get there, we need to go to our bestie! richard, tell us what you've got for today others top news stories. >> always great to see you. some of the stories that we are watching for this hour.

a few moments ago, president biden tweeting a message to jimmy carter and his wife rosalynn and their families saying, he and jill are with him in prayer and some i love. he is now in hospice care at his home in georgia and will continue to bring you updates as we get them on the former president. and then to turkey, most search and rescue efforts have halted today after that 7.8 magnitude earthquake that struck on february 6th. the death toll in turkey and syria stands at more than 44,000 and is expected to continue to climb their. and michigan state university announced this afternoon it will cover funeral expenses for those killed and hospital bills for -- the interim president also laid out plans for mental health resources and stronger campus security. classes will resume tomorrow as previously scheduled. more symone right after this break. r this break. including take-out. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or the tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack.

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for president. and it's a choice that puts her on a collision course with her old boss, former president donald trump. but nikki haley seems prepared to -- what exactly does this shakeup indicate about a primary cycle that's just getting started? joining me now to discuss is gavin smith, a former staffer to both donald trump and nikki haley, and dug -- a former communications director -- all right. you know, i believe in talking to the experts. let me give you -- y'all heard haley's remarks in 2016. but the cycle, she has been sidestepping candidate -- here is her response to that question today on fox news. >> i don't focus on president trump and it's amazing that the media wants to talk about that so much. >> but you will have to focus on him and governor desantis or

anybody else who gets into get the presidential -- you will need to get through that field. >> my announcement was to a few thousand people in south carolina. i just had packed rooms in new hampshire. not one person asked me about president trump. everybody wanted to talk about biden. everybody wanted to talk about the problems facing american families. i am focused on joe biden. >> now, doug, you have done comms for a couple republican folks and candidates as i have. is this -- what is her strategy here? and do you think this is a sustainable one. >> muhammad ali versus george foreman in africa. you don't engage donald trump directly because donald trump is that is most effective when he has an opponent, when he has someone that he can go on the attack on. you see trump trying to pick fights right now with desantis. desantis is doing the same thing, not taking the bait. he can't do that forever, but short term, that is the smart thing to do. you know every candidate wants to talk about what they want to talk about, not what their opponents want them to talk

about. so she will do this for as long as she can. >> so, we are a long way from a debate stage. gavin, do you think that -- earlier in the week, the governor was saying, or the you and ambassador, was saying she does not kick sideways, she kicks forward. that was until mike pompeo kicked her and she bumped him in the nose with a comment on twitter. it is it that she is trying to walk the rope line as doug noted. are there some people she is willing to kick back at, depending on who they are? >> yeah. i think doug's right. why kick donald trump? i mean, i think grassroots coordination for donald trump in 2016 -- it is so interesting to me because i'm still talking to many of those people today. and one supporter from 2016 and even 2020 put it to me like this. we like 90% of donald trump's policies, but we hated 90% of what he said.

so, donald trump is his worst enemy. if i were advising nikki haley, which i am not, i would say don't even engage him. because donald trump's his own worst enemy and he will inevitably put the final nail in his own coffin. let him do himself in. >> well, let's talk about a recent poll and the poll looked at declared and potential primary republican candidates. it found that donald trump and ron desantis were way ahead of the pack. but we are still 11 months out from the first caucus. doug, is it misguided for the media apparatus to treat this as a two person race already? i personally think that ron desantis -- >> this is a chicken and egg situation. the press has made this and all trump is trying to make this a conversation or a fight between the two. so, is that conversation because that is where the polling is or is the polling there because that's where the conversation is? there might be a bit of both. clearly, this campaign is going to go on for a long time and it is still remarkably early.

as nikki haley has gotten in, other candidates are looking and saying, okay, will trump attack her? and if so, when? he has not done it immediately, but he might. they don't need to be in a hurry to get in. long way to go. >> i am reminded in a democratic primary in 2020, and early 2019, the now president, then candidate, biden, did not get into the field until april. the field will get more crowded. okay? that is just a fact. they will maybe bide their time as doug said. we have it up on the screen. some of the same people who defended donald trump at every turn, they will be doing opposition research on him. maybe not hitting him directly, but you know, sliding into things to the people in the streets. gavin, the split screen here is going to be amazing, how will they justify attacking a man that they stood by during some of the most bizarre moments in our recent history? >> look, you know, at the end

of the day i think you could say the same thing for me. i worked for donald trump in 2016 and as we continue to show himself, i said hey, enough is enough. and i think that's what you're seeing with nikki haley and some of these other candidates. as donald trump continue to be who he is, and he continued to spout stolen election conspiracy theories, and in the aftermath of january 6th -- i say, good for nikki haley and these other candidates for saying, enough is enough, i think i'm a better voice and i think that that will play out in the primary process. ultimately, i don't think that donald trump has the hold on the republican party that he thinks he does. >> well, we will have to wait and see. i am waiting for nikki haley to say that she's better than donald trump. we have not heard that one yet. gavin smith, thank you. and doug, you are not going anywhere because we have a little bit more to discuss. stay with us. the resident of east palestine, ohio, are looking for assistance and answers after

the train derailment. up next, i'll be joined by a woman who had to evacuate her home as well as a state representative from east palestine who is calling for safety changes. we will be right back. l be right back. it's not too late for another treatment option. to learn more visit treatted.com that's treatt-e-d.com. when cold symptoms keep you up, try vicks nyquil severe. just one dose starts to relieve 9 of your worst cold and flu symptoms, to help take you from 9 to none. for max-strength nighttime relief, nyquil severe. [♪♪] for max-strength nighttime relief, if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®.

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ground in east palestine, ohio. 16 days after a train derailed they're sending toxic chemicals into the air and the water. now, federal workers are assessing recovery needs. coordinating aid.

residents in and around east palestine, they are still questioning the safety of the surroundings. medical clinics are now being set up to check people complaining of headaches and sore throats after breathing potential cancer causing toxins that hovered around their homes. ashley mccallum is a resident of east palestine who was forced to evacuate. ashley, thank you very, very much for being here. where were you when the derailment happened? how did you first learn of how dangerous it was? >> to begin, thank you for having me on. i was at home with my son, just a normal evening. we heard fire trucks go by. we heard another set of fire trucks go by. it was alarming in our town. it is not common. i ran to the door and saw flames engulfing almost the entire back of my house. it looked like it was closer than it was. we were in panic.

>> how close are you? how close is your home to the train tracks? >> 0.02 miles away. >> so, you see the flames. did you leave your home immediately? did you -- did you evacuate days later? where exactly did you go? >> we weren't aware of what's going on. i had animals and children. i looked at my house for the last time thinking this might be the last time that i see it. from there, i kind of felt like i would never see it again. >> you are back in your home? >> no, i am not. that's the same instance now just because i still feel like that home is unreachable in the conditions that are in, they are unlivable. irritation, sore throats, your teeth feel sensitive when you are in the house for more than ten minutes. >> ashley, i spoke to epa

administrator michael begin yesterday. i want to play for you what he told me about east palestine. listen to this. >> we deployed high tech assets. we have an aerial monitoring that we deployed and we have a mobile monitor that we deployed. we have stationary air monitors. we have been inside of nearly 500 homes monitoring the air quality. none of those results have come back at levels of concern. what we said is the drinking water in the homes that have been tested by the state have met the satisfactory greenlight you have access to the drinking water. if your home has not been tested. i think the governor has said it best. if your home has not been tested, remain on bottled water. >> when you see that, actually,

after hearing what you just told me about the headaches and the sore throats, do you feel your town is safe? >> i don't feel like we are safe. just because we haven't seen the results and the air monitors that whatever the beginning are now in bags, they haven't been reading since the town hall of february 15th, we haven't actually seen any reads from any of those houses. the chemicals they've measured, i know i had a personal tests done in my home. even at that level, we can't read the chemicals that are actually present in the house. it's not a normal thing. mold and mildew, those kinds of things are normal in readings. we don't have the chemical plants around us or the technology to check the chemicals present that they had listed and released. >> ashley mccallum, i am praying for you and all the people in east palestine who have been affected, your families and i, i know i speak

for a lot of folks in the media right now saying we want to help folks get answers. it's devastating what is happening to your community. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> right now i also want to bring an ohio state representative lauren mcnally. she is a democrat who represents district 59, right near east palestine. representative, thank you for being here. you heard what actually had to say. she talked about the headaches, the sore throat, she has not been back home to her house in 16 days. is this similar to concerns that you are hearing from other constituents and your neighbors right now? >> absolutely, that's been the theme of the last two weeks. it's really been around the unknown. the unknown when it comes to communication, not being concise and consistent and constant and just not understanding what is happening

on a daily basis here. we are very much still in the emergency phrase. things are changing daily. we need to make sure as officials that we are providing information at a much better pace and rate than we are in it. >> when you say that the communication has not been what it should, you are speaking about the government's communication. >> correct, and that's what ultimately the people living and east palestine, they are looking for answers. they are looking at the government ransomers, rightfully so. we need to make sure we are giving them that peace of mind, the quality information. that we are giving it to them constantly. we are just not doing that right now. >> in recent days, there's been a lot of conversation about regulations on transporting hazardous materials by rail. adequately notifying, adequately protecting communities, the trains travel through. it is the state legislature

thinking of taking this up? do you think that current regulations are appropriate? >> they're absolutely appropriate. now is the time for us to roll up our sleeves and work. that is what the people of east palestine deserve. that is what they need right now. so, we have put forth bipartisan legislation in our transportation budget just this past week. the democrats panda letter to our finance chair to include six changes to the transportation budget that directly related to this issue. myself and representative rob blasdell who represents east palestine also put together a lateral to the federal government urging congress to change their laws so states like ohio and neighborhoods and towns like east palestine are notified when hazardous materials are coming through. they are coming through our neighborhoods. they are coming through the areas where we live, eat, raise

our families, they are so close to everything we do on a daily basis. we need to know what's going on so we can properly respond when things happen if things happen. >> yes, ohio state representative lauren mcnally, thank you very much. we will be following up on the legislation stewart goes. >> next, folks, you heard me say it, the culture wars have been the playbook for the republican party apparatus for sometime now. there have been some dangerous developments on the right expanding on that. i will explain when we come back.

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>> it was all this talk about the florida bell, the don't say gay bill. basically, when it said was, you shouldn't be able to talk about gender before third grade. i'm sorry, i don't think that goes far enough. >> after desantis said that advanced placement of african american studies were illegal under florida law, we have at least four more states that have said they will examine our investigative the curriculum as well. not to mention this is already been going on across the country before this whole debacle. our political panels going to weigh in, eugene daniels is a white house reporter and an msnbc political contributor. i'm each across as a democratic strategist. our republican friend right over here. eugene, let me start with you. you cover the white house, you cover a lot of campaigns. it seems to me that the culture wars issue, they do not have

legs in a national election. it is something that is good for primary. it has now voted so well for my republican friends in the general election. what, i don't understand what's going on here. feel back the layers. >> they have to get the nomination. they're going to continue to fight the culture wars. it is at the heart of the republican party. it is not at the heart of the democratic party. it is not at the heart of independents. when you talk to democrats and independents, they aren't talking about these things in the same way that the republican candidates want them to. when you watch someone like ron desantis, something that he's able to do that others cannot, he has been differentiating himself from them by actually using the tools of the state to fight culture wars, like nikki haley, all those other folks are talking about it. he's actually use the tools of the state to do that. >> okay, doug, look, state retaliation, -- let limiting free expression. i mean, i have a whole list here. if this is not the type of big government that republicans

oppose -- >> okay, look. that's on fire, republicans have been spending so much money under donald trump. we've embraced some big killer meant conservative him. [laughter] what desantis does that's interesting is he picks and chooses his battles very specifically. for instance where a lot of governors or candidates are outspoken on abortion, you don't hear a lot from desantis on this. meanwhile, when he is identifying himself with republican voters as a culture warrior, when the hurricane hit florida, he was there with president biden. he worked with fema. he basically demonstrated to voters i can also be adult and run a government. that's important, that's how he will separate himself from the rest of the pack. at least, potentially. >> well, we will be watching the rare republican primary as it unfolds. i can't wait to get more in. i want to turn to wisconsin. voters in wisconsin are heading back to the ballot box in a supreme court race. this is a primary election. this could really make the difference in wisconsin for

what democrats are able to do and get done. i know you know chicago really well, it's down the street from wisconsin. i was just there. what could the national interpretations before democrats as it relates to this race? and i think wisconsin is ground zero for some of these issues of democracy we often talk about. >> one of them specifically as abortion rights. we know that the supreme court level, at the state level, that is one that many states have decided they are going to push towards eradication. making sure they -- women don't have the right to choose. for the midwest, sadly, not all states look like illinois. you have an instance where this could be something that could really be thrown up between that and making sure that education funding happens. we're seeing multiple states where the courts are making those decisions. as much as some of the state supreme courts acts or said that they're not political in nature, what we see is a stark push toward the right in eradication of rights that many people have been fighting for across this country for

generations. >> the candid is for the supreme court race are running as democrats or republicans. it's quite clear on the state level. wisconsin, though, eugene, can be unpredictable. the past midterm election, evers was reelected. the state also sent ron johnson, a republican backed united states senate. it's hard to tell what could go down. >> i think with the supreme court issue, the state supreme court issue, voters, democratic voters for the first time actually caring about the state supreme courts. they care about the courts in a way they have it before. >> this is an important points. they did not run any candidates. there was -- this was not the first. the seat was open before. the democrats did put a candidate up. >> now what you see is after dobbs came down, roe v. wade goes away. there is a shifting. the strategist or realizing that we can also fight on the courts. republicans are very good at a lot of things. one thing being the long.

game that's what you're seeing. the reason why he's governor, again, is because of abortion. that's a state in which people talk about as ground zero. it really is. >> it really, really. is >> congress, a lot of people like to be up on congress. myself included, honey. very sad for all the staffers. look, one of the most bipartisan effort as she, is if not the most be patterson issue is, the issue of china. when we talk about china, it also extends to tiktok, right? we are seeing bipartisan support for crackdown on tiktok. folks in okay to talk is owned by the chinese company bytedance. proposals have ranged from enhanced purity to outright ban of tiktok. first of, all of you on tiktok? >> i am not. [laughter] >> i am on tiktok. i didn't get on tiktok until i got out of government and

campaign life. it was something we are advise not to be on. what do you think of this bipartisan assault on tiktok? >> it's not just capitol hill. what we're seeing as governors, democratic and republican, they're able to control what they're able to control. which means you are a government device. if you are state employee, and certain states, governors are saying you can't put this on. there we know that there is no way that any candidate republican or democrat can be two anti china. so, it's a very safe place for them to go. they can talk about doing bipartisan things even if they're not doing those on other issues. there are a whole lot of opportunities for republicans and democrats to work together on a lot of issues that may not be making the front page these days. young folks are watching the show, honey. they watch it on peacock as well. there are about 80 million people who have a tiktok account. my former anchor pa associate producer learns a lot of things

from tiktok. can you put the genie back in the bottle, ameshia cross? >> there needs to be security precautions. we know of the engagement there. as much as we pay attention to the chinese spy balloon i don't think there's enough attention being paid to the fact that we're giving our information via tiktok. right now, to your, point symone, there are millions of people who look to tiktok for their everyday news. for their understanding of politics and policy. for culture. i am not sure he can rededicate that. >> my sister in law, i asked for recommendations for my girlfriends bachelorette party, she said you want me to send you tiktok links? oh my goodness. it's everywhere. it's everywhere. so, what is the solution? anything from the white house? >> i mean, when you asked the white house about this, we have a possible campaign. coming is president biden going to be using tiktok the dnc's is tiktok. so, they don't have a great answer at this point on that. they're trying to figure that out. they know that they need to use it. it's something they talk about reaching people, finding aim,

you know. this going to where the people. are >> the people are on tiktok. tiktok today, it lives to fight another day. thank you all very much for such a spirited conversation. after the break, i have my conversation with a phenomenal founder of the equal justice initiative. i'm talking about brian stevenson. it's just amazing. he has a deeply moving book, it was turned into a major motion picture. the conversation is great. stay with us. don't miss it. don't miss it. luckily they've all got chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. avoiding triggers but can't keep migraines away? qulipta® can help prevent migraines. you can't always prevent what's going on outside... that's why qulipta® helps what's going on inside. qulipta® gets right to work. in a 3-month study, qulipta® significantly reduced monthly migraine days and the majority of people reduced them by 50 to 100%. qulipta® blocks cgrp

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are highlighting people who are making history right now. we are celebrating the pioneers in our community with our series living black history. today, a man who has dedicated his life to ending judicial inequality, america's insidious connection between race and poverty. i'm talking about brian stevenson. he is the founder and executive director of the equal justice initiative. the e.v.a.'s mission is to change america's problems with

over incarceration and stop inequality in the justice system. his best selling book just mercy was turned into a movie starring michael b. jordan and jamie foxx. it tells a story of stephenson's life and work, including the effort to free an alabama man sentenced to death for a murder he did not commit. let me just give you a small sample of why stephenson's work is so important. according to equal justice initiative, the u.s. only makes up 5% of the world's population. but it has nearly 25% of the world's incarcerated population. in 1970, to america ahead 200,000 people in prison and now we have 2.2 million people incarcerated. the number of women who are incarcerated is skyrocketing from 1980 to 2017 the number grew by 750%. the research center found very little evidence that severe prison sentences lower crime. there is plenty of evidence that it raises poverty rates. right now in america, our

criminal justice system to two better is if you are rich and guilty then if you report an innocent. i was very thrilled to be able to talk to brian stevenson. the man who is making great strides toward, you know, ending that inequality. i started by asking him what made him choose this as his life's work. take a listen. >> i'm a product of brown versus board of education i grew up in a community where black children cannot attend public schools. there were no high schools for black kids when my kid was a teenager. most of the adults hadn't gone to high school because of racial discrimination. these lawyers had the power to force that community to do something that opened up those doors. because of, that i got to go to high school and college and law school. when i came out of law school, it was clear to me that the community that was most vulnerable, most marginalized in this country where those hundreds of thousands of people you detailed that were being put into jails and prisons. the politics of fear and anger

or swallowing up whole communities. people were being demonized who are drug addicted and drug dependent. we were calling them criminals and saying it was a crime problem, when we should've been saying it was a health problem. at the top of that list where the people on death row who were literally dying for legal assistance. so, i just felt -- the lawyers came into my community when i was in a little boy to open up the public schools felt called to respond to this injustice. to respond to this inequality. it has been challenging, it's been a great privilege to stand with the condemned and the incarcerated, the wrongly convicted and the unfairly sentenced in this country. for every eight people we have executed and the united states, we've now identified one in the same person on death row he's been exonerated. it's a shameful error rate that we wouldn't tolerate and most areas, if one out of eight to apples had a toxin on it that would cause you to die, we would stop selling apples. we continue to tolerate a death penalty, a system of capital

punishment, that makes all of these tragic mistakes. yet still continues to kill people. it's one of the many reasons why i feel so called to stand with the condemned, to fight against the states that continue to engage in this misguided logic that killing people is the way you show that killing is wrong. i don't believe in that. >> it strikes, me, sir that we are having this conversation at a time where there are attacks all over this country on teaching the history. >> we cannot move forward as a nation if we are unwilling to be honest about who we are. it's like an health care. you may not want a diagnosis that you have diabetes or high blood pressure or some cancer diagnosis. if you act like it, if you ban people from saying the words, you're not going to get well. you are going to get sick. you are going to die. we have to have the courage to face the truth. the truth is, we are, a lot of things are great about this country. a lot of things that are tragic. we are a post genocide society that has not acknowledged how when europeans came to this

continent millions of indigenous people were killed with famine and more and disease. we have a legacy of slavery in america that we have to understand. the great evil of slavery wasn't the involuntary servitude and the brutality of the violence, that was horrific. the real was the narrative to create -- whitens labours didn't want to feel immoral, so many of them made up this false narrative that black people aren't as good as white people. black people aren't for the human, aren't fully evolved. >> there are people that wonder, is it possible to create a more just society? >> i think it is. just society we have overcome that kind of chattel slavery that doomed many of our for parents. my great-grandfather learn to read in virginia as an enslaved person when it was against the law for black person to be taught to read. so, we have seen that. we lived through this horrific era of terror violence were mobs are pulling black people out of jails and prisons and lynching them on courthouse lawns. i grew up in an era where you

could see the iconography of segregation, the signs that said white and color, courageous people fought against that. the signs have come down. we are still burdened with this presumption of dangerousness and guilt. there are still these pollutants in the air that have been created by this history. and that's why we have to understand the history and reckon with it. and i am inspired by what i've seen in other places in the world. if you go to berlin, germany, the holocaust memorial sits into the center of that city. cabdrivers and hotel operators encourage everyone to go to that space. it's been transformed. there are no adolf hitler statues and berlin. there are no monuments to the perpetrators of the holocaust in germany. if you said in germany, oh we can't teach our child about the holocaust, it might cause and feel uncomfortable or ashamed. that's -- society as made progress as a result of their willingness to engage in truth telling. all we are trying to do is facilitate the truth telling. i really do that believe that

truth is what makes you free. truth is what empowers. you truth as what strengthens. you >> thank you, bryan stevenson for your work. you are modern-day freedom fighter. we appreciate you. >> for more my conversation with brian stephens, and makes you tune into my show on peacock on monday tomorrow. we will have the full interview. thank, you everyone out there for being with us on simone this sunday. i'm symone sanders-townsend, you can catch me here on msnbc weekends at 4 pm. i told you about peacock. for more of the show including some behind the scenes videos, you won't see anywhere else, you can find us on instagram, twitter, and tiktok. tomorrow, night you can find me keeping stephanie roast tear warm on the 11th hour. politics nation will start right after this break. r this break

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