war, and certainly people in ukraine are bracing for what they thought would be an increase in attacks from ukraine but now after two days of being on the world stage, joe biden, we are wondering what that response is going to look like -- we appreciate the time from both of you tonight. joe cirincione and julia ioffe, thank you very much. that's all in for this tuesday night. i'm ali velshi, live from kyiv, ukraine. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> thanks, ali velshi. and thanks especially for that work you are doing overseas -- thanks to you at home for being here tonight. we are starting in the state of georgia. fulton county district attorney fani willis has yet to say whether or not she will seek indictments in her sprawling criminal investigation into former president donald trump and his allies efforts to -- the 2020 election. but today, one of the grand jurors in that, emily core, the juries for woman, she is speaking out. nbc news blaine alexander sat

down with corps for her first television interview. and she draft dropped a whole lot of hints. >> did the grand jury recommend indictments of multiple people? >> yes. i will tell you, it is not a short list. we saw 75 people. and there are six pages of the report cut out. >> so, we are talking about more than a dozen people? >> i would say that, yes. >> are these recognizable names? names that people would know? >> there are certainly names that you would recognize, yes. there definitely are something that you would expect. >> the grand jury forewoman telling nbc today that the grand jury panel recommended that over a dozen people be indicted. doesn't is a lot. and on the one question that we are all wondering about -- did the special grand jury

recommended an indictment against the former president? take a listen. >> did the grand jury recommend an indictment of former president trump? >> i am not going to speak on exact indictments. >> would we be surprised? are there bombshells of who is -- >> i don't think that there are any giant plot twists coming. i don't think that there are giant -- that's not the way i expected this to go at all! i don't think that that is in store for anyone. >> so, nothing that would surprise people who have been following this -- >> probably not. i would not want to characterize anyone else's reaction, of course. sorry, that was something else we heard a lot in testimony. but probably not. it would probably not shock

you. i would not expect you to be too shocked, no. >> and that includes the former president, potentially? >> potentially. it might. >> it's hard to parse that went out. again, on the subject of a potential trump indictment, kohrs was asked today, this time by the atlanta journal-constitution, about trump's claim that the grand jury's report totally exonerated him. in response, kohrs rolled her eyes and burst out laughing. did he really say that, she asked? oh, that's fantastic. that's phenomenal. i love it. so, make of that what you will. we also learned in kohrs's nbc news interview that trump's former chief of staff, mark meadows, did in fact testify to the grand jury for an hour and a half. this is information we did not know previously. kohrs further reveal that many witnesses who came to testify before the grand jury did so having already been granted immunity. >> how many people came into

the room to testify with immunity deals already in place? >> maybe a dozen? >> in a series of interview today, kohrs also told the atlanta journal-constitution that the panel heard more recordings of trump phone calls. that, is in addition to his infamous call to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger, asking him to, find 11,000 votes. this is what kohrs said about those calls. we heard a lot of recordings of president trump on the phone, declining to give specifics. it is amazing how many hours of footage you can find that mine man on the phone. some of these that were privately recorded by people or recorded by a staffer -- now, this is a person who volunteered to be the four women of the special grand jury but did not vote in 2016. she did not vote in 2020. in fact, she told the atlanta journal-constitution that she has never voted before, period. and until the grand jury proceedings, i've kohrs never heard the infamous call between

donald trump and brad raffensperger. so, getting inside her head to try to understand what she means by things like, i would not expect you to be too shocked when it comes to the indictments, or, what might be a giant plot twist twist in this person's mind -- or what might not be that is all very complicated. because, in addition to all the things i just recast, emily kohrs also said things like this. >> my coolest moment was shaking rudy giuliani's hand. that was really cool for me. i made a point of stopping in being, like, wait. before we go back to this, can i shake your hand? -- it was really neat for me. >> okay. what we have in these interviews as a window into the thought process of the special ranger that heard evidence in perhaps the most legally perilous investigation of a former president in american history. a special grand jury led by someone who has never before participated in the most basic part of our democracy, voting.

it's someone who, during proceedings, two sketches of witnesses like senator lindsey graham and former trump aide marc short, and who swore in at least witness -- i am not kidding here -- holding teenage mutant ninja turtles popsicle stick. it is worth mentioning that this was not just a jury. this was not just a grand jury. this was a special grand jury that was convened, in large part, to give the district attorney down in fulton county, the sort of political cover necessary to go forward with potentially one of the most explosive indictments in american history. and here we are. joining us now is michael moore, former u.s. attorney for the middle district attorney, and george conway, attorney and contributing columnist for the washington post. gentlemen, thank you for being here to understand what is happening. i want to start -- michael, if i could start just with you because you have an understanding of --

you have a granular understanding of the way things play out in the state of georgia. and what do you make of emily kohrs, the four woman forewoman of the special grand jury, and speaking to many news outlets, doing a on camera interview with nbc news, and saying what she had to say? >> i am glad to be with both of you. the thing that struck me is that, that is your jury. and this these are the type of people that are going to be sitting on that jury, and decide whether not to issue a conviction in the case. i was taken aback a little bit by some of the comments that were made. i think it's dangerous when you do that. you talk about things that went on in the grand jury room. that is why the grand jury process is secret. i realize here that it is an advisory pool. it's not the same as a criminal grand jury. but trouble has made it here in the prosecutors evidence made it out like that before we know which people might be indicted on what charges --

so, i think it ought to be troubling to anybody. but again, that is your jury. those are people just like her that are going to sit on that jury and make a decision about whether or not to convict someone. and that is troubling. look, she did not reveal anything we did not know. for crying out loud, i think if there's any secret, anybody look looking at it that -- that they are going to be indictments in this case. there is nothing new in what she told us. but you heard it firsthand. to hear things like, i was taken to shake somebody's hand, or i trusted somebody to do this, or -- you know, that is unusual. and remember, we don't use special purpose grand juries in georgia very much. we don't have investigative team and juries. we just have criminal grand jury that mean. you can use them. but again, this may be a reason that the prosecutor should have gone forward with a very clean case, a very focused case, and not turn this into something of

a yearlong exhibition, where we now have this type of information out. there are no effects. there is no real motion that defendants may file in the case. but it sure gives them a lot of father. -- they talk about in the press to try to undermine the -- confidence in the prosecution's decision to make move forward. >> and i do want to talk about that. but i do don't want to lose sight of the fact -- michael moore is pretty -- at least a dozen people may be getting indicted in all this. and then the sort of strange psychological playing an armchair psychologist, which is demanded of us frequently in the trump years -- but on this count particularly, it's trying to get inside the head of this forewoman, who is saying, there are no bombshells here. and what i'm trying to understand -- and i would love your thoughts on this, george -- is, is the bombshell indicting from? for not indicting trump? >> i think all of us watching this know where this is heading. because we saw the evidence in

january six hearings. we heard the raffensperger tape way back in january of 2021. this is -- all roads lead to donald trump. we know about the fake electors. it is hard to imagine that he is not getting indicted and that a lot of people are not getting indicted. and that was the inference that most people drew from the six missing pages in the nine-page grand jury report. in that sense, i agree with michael, we did not learn that much. but there are still some tidbits in there that you probably should not have let slip out. she was a little cute when it came to the question of trump. it's particularly with the aj sea, the newspapers -- >> yes -- >> rolling horizon -- >> yes, rolling her eyes -- i can't blame, her right? >> it's the enormity of the task at hand for someone who is a sort of political neophyte, if you will.

i'm not trying to be insulting. but no one has really done it -- >> no, she was enjoying herself a little too much, i think. >> i guess in terms of legal peril, michael, fani willis, the fulton county da, has been very reluctant to talk about this case at all. she has had four interviews. but she has really not divulged much. and this jury is important for her optically, it seems, right? she needs to -- their they are a crucial part of public confidence if he goes forward with explicit public indictments. i just wonder if you think, if not in terms of the law, in terms of the sort of politics of this, whether that has been compromised by the information we have today, in terms of fani willis's path forward? >> i don't think she needed the grand jury for cover, for any legal reason. she had, basically, of recorded confession from the former president, when he made the call from raffensperger. her problem is political. if she had spent the time in treasure in the state of georgia and in fulton county specifically to do this investigation --

and so she needed this to be a serious endeavor. she needed it to come forward. part of the reason is that there has been a spike in crime in fulton county. and voters are going to be questioning, should we be catching the robbers and the carjackers versus tending to all these issues before the special purpose grand jury for this year? could we have use our resources somewhere else? that is the question for her. she really need the political cover here. because, she had a case. but she used this, i think, to sort of we've a bigger net. and she has used this to try to get into things we have heard about rico. and we have heard about we are going to indict on the conspiracy -- we have heard all these things over the last year, when she, in fact, i think, had a very clean case, if you wanted to proceed that way -- it's not to second guess are and it's not too armchair quarterback the proceedings over the last year. but it is to say that, no, this was not, what i think she would want people to think about the work of the special purpose grand jury.

and this -- with the help -- and i think she is -- there do some media appearances early on that she is not doing it in talking about the case and i think that will probably serve her well and it would have served with a grand jury will. you keep your head down. you do your case. you let the evidence and the facts take you where you go. and you speak only on things that the public -- just some information about the status. but to talk specifically about evidence or getting this and this type of thing, i think, is not what she wanted, i'm sure. i say that -- i mean, obviously, i have not spoken to her about it. but i can't imagine that she would have wanted this to be sort of the face of the work of the special purpose grand jury. >> george, trump himself has sort of try to preempt any bad news by saying he has been totally exonerated. it sort of sounds like he might not be totally exonerated in all of this. >> although, she did not specifically trey say trump had been indicted. so, he might take a similar

position of -- she did not say i have been indicted, so she did -- trumpian logic. >> do you expect him -- i mean, the fact, that she said she was an armored of rudy giuliani and that was an amazing moment for -- >> i don't think -- >> he is someone that has weaponize very small things in the fast past. what is your expectation here? >> he will weaponize whatever he can. and he will say inconsistent things. he will say whatever comes to his mind in any given moment. at the end of the day, i think this is a one day story. i think they may make a big dale deal out of this in some point, at some papers. but at the end of the day, there's gonna be another grand jury, as michael points out, the one that actually indites these people. >> -- reminder -- >> all dozen of them or know. at the end of the day, they have to put on a case, and the fulton county grand jury in the fulton county da's office has to put on the case. and if there are other tapes, that's a nice little --

>> yes -- -- >> if there are these other tapes, we know there this whole fake electors -- scheme there is a multifaceted conspiracy here just as the january six committee pointed out. it was just a multi faceted effort to overturn the election. and some of those facets manifested themselves in georgia. and at the end of the, day of that evidence that goes into the -- jury, not the grand jury, is going to decide this case. >> michael, when we talked about what sort of bore fruit in this empaneled grand jury, the fact that george mentions there were tapes that we don't know about, and many of them, apparently -- >> tell us more -- >> tell us more, forewoman kohrs. that was really interesting. mark meadows -- we did not know that he had testified before this grand jury. we did not know that many people, at least, i think, i dozen, were given immunity to testify and were more forthcoming in that testimony.

west it out to you as most interesting in the bread crumbs that were dropped? >> i was not surprised at all to hear about the immunity from folks. and that is, that we have talked about the special electors in the scheme in this type of thing, and the false slate of electors. there were some litigation about that, about who could and could not testify and who could have lawyers, the same lawyer, and this type of thing here in this state. so, i really was not surprised by that. it was additional tape, i think, that caught my attention, or tapes, as she said -- and recordings -- and then what she was willing to say about searching and finding other things and phone calls online and this type of thing -- that, to me, is going to be interesting. again, there is nothing that she did and nothing that she said that, i think, will be a very successful tactical attack on any future case, should there be one. and i have told you, i think there will be. but she basically gave information and gave pieces of

evidence and gave sort of an idea about the prosecution's strategy early on that would not be out at this point. and she gave a lot of fodder for things in court filings, and motions, whether they are meritorious are not. and certainly, she put some extra batteries in the megaphones for the people who are likely to be defendants. and she has given some things to complain about and talk about and to diminish the investigation itself and the validity of it and the seriousness of the investigation and the grand jury proceedings through this. if you think about the special purpose grand jury, everybody is just writing a recommendation. it's like getting a sticky note with some names on it and headed to the prosecutor has about that much importance in her decision. she has complete discretion. who she wants to indict, what she wants to indict them for, she does not have to do a thing, and for this report, she can put it in her file cabinet and never look at it again. but this is what the public is hearing. and so, as a prosecutor, you

want the public, especially in a case like this, to have confidence in your decisions, as you are moving forward. and confidence in your ability to bring a case that can ultimately sustain a conviction and an appeal if it goes that far. so, again, she, i think, probably undermined some of the seriousness of where we are, but nonetheless, here we are. and i am sure you are going to have defendants now -- potential defendants and future defendants -- wanting to hear all these extra tapes, wanting to know what other information was out there, wanting to know exactly what jokes were said to who and what they were laughing about in the grand jury room and help use that as a way to attack the credibility of the case that the provocation prosecution puts forward -- >> george, is lindsey graham sweating it out right now? who do you think is most in the greatest peril, knowing what you know about what we all know about who said what publicly? >> i think donald john trump's. >> you go back to --

>> all roads go back to him. he's the one who is pushing, pushing raffensperger on that call, asking for the precise number of votes plus one, ignoring, basically, everything that raffensperger was saying about how there was a lack of fraud. he was the driving force behind this. he was involved, as we saw in the january 6th hearings, if he was involved in the fake elector schemes in various states -- and all roads lead to him. he is the center. he is the epicenter of the conspiracy. >> okay. so, that is not a plot twist, or maybe it is. >> it's not a plot twist. >> you think it's happening. michael moore, george conway, think you both for joining me this evening. >> thank you for having us. >> pleasure to be with you. >> thank you. it's a busy news night with a historic election for a vacant commissioner seat in the state of virginia. while wisconsin voters went to the polls today to cast their ballots in a race that's crucial for the future of democracy in their state -- plus, senator bernie sanders will be here live in the studio

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epa administrator, michael regan, and ohio's republican governor mike dewine drinking the water in east palestine, ohio today, we're trained real meant three weeks ago dumped untold amounts of hazardous chemicals into that small ohio community. many residents are still experiencing symptoms like rashes and burning sensations that are consistent with exposure to dangerous chemicals. and they are skeptical about governments ability to both ensure their safety and hold the rail company responsible for this crash. that skepticism is not unwarranted. during the obama administration, both companies lobbied to narrow you safety rules governing the transportation of dangerous chemicals. one of the companies behind that lobbying campaign was norfolk southern, the company whose train was carrying the toxic materials that were dumped in east palestine. and during the trump administration, the white house rollback those safety rules. just last year, rail workers across the country threatened to strike in part over safety

conditions. but rail company successfully lobbied congress to squash that strike threat without addressing worker safety concerns, even as rail companies lined shareholder pockets with more than ten billion dollars in stock buybacks. the residents of east palestine are feeling the result of a decades long battle between corporate powers and it democratically elected governments. one of the elected officials who has spent his career focused on that very struggle is vermont senator bernie sanders. this week, he is out with a new book. it's okay to be angry about capitalism, in which senator bernie sanders details the struggle against corporate influence in government in both major political parties and outlines his vision to fix it. he writes, the ruling class get their lobbyists to work on assuring that, when policies and regulations are written, congress and the state legislatures will agree to those that consolidate their advantages. by the time the average american catches on, the rules have already been rid so that the rich get richer and everyone else gets left behind.

when the oligarchs and the corporate world are waging class war against working class americans, the working class needs a party that will fight back and when. joining us now is vermont senator bernie sanders. senator, thank you so much for joining me. congrats on the book. >> thank you very much. >> i'm sorry that we still have to be writing about some of the same problems that have been entrenched, it seems, in american society for quite some time. i want to talk to you about -- just before we get to the substance of the book, though this has to do very much with that, what is happening in ohio? it seems like it is the nexus of three problems that you detail in the book. the first is corporate lobbying, the strength of it, in terms of shaping federal policy, workers rights, which are consistently subsumed in the name of corporate profit. and it's health care for the most vulnerable communities in this state, in this country. what should democrats be doing at this moment, as national news coverage is focused on so many -- fundamental problems in american society? >> it's interesting that this terrible derailment an accident

took place just at the moment that some of us have been taking on the rail industry. as you indicated, there is record-breaking profits. what we should add to what you said is that, in the last six years, based on what wall street wanted, to increase profits, they have downsized their workforce by 30% in six years. so, you talk to the workers and say, we are asked to do more work with fewer people. and that causes safety concerns. that is what the workers have told us. and then, on top of all of that, these rail executives, who make zillion's of dollars a year, could not find it in their hearts to provide one day of paid sick leave for their workers. i think we have had some impact. the railroads are beginning to do that as a result of public pressure. but, as you indicated, this is just another example of incredible wall street corporate power at the expense of workers, at the expense of a

community in ohio now, and the general community. >> the governor of pennsylvania looks like he is looking at criminal indictments for this. what is the punitive measure that should be sought out at this point? >> we have allow these guys -- and corporate american general, that's with his whole book is about -- to get away with murder. year after -- and it's not just the railroads. it's the pharmaceutical industry that charges us the highest prices in the world. they raised their prices. and you know why? people die. and they could do anything they want. and the government, well, they have 1700 -- obviously, pharmaceutical industry, in washington d.c.. it's health care. you tell me, alex wagner, how in the richest country on earth, we are the only major country not to guarantee health care to all people? but good news. insurance companies make billions of dollars a year in profit. >> yeah. >> so, what this book is about is, it's taking a look at not just the rail industry, it's

what's going on in america. and the bottom line is, the middle class continues to shrink. we have more income and wealth inequality in america today than we have ever had. and we've got to re-trust. as institutions you know you're a at the beginning of the book that it's considered by some to question the american power structure, the question the way the country is riven ruled an american. it harkens back to the 1960s when anybody last talk tough questions of those in power who challenge the status quo. oh you're a flaming liberal, you can't be taken seriously. the true patriots the true americans abide the law and they go about their way. >> they don't abide the law, they make the law. >> they make the. law >> you can't have any criminal problems with these guys can save made the law. >> exactly and they refused to ask questions about systemic injustice is whether there are racial or whatever. it's somehow anti-american.

and it feels like we are back having the same debate that we had in the civil rights era. >> for somebody was had the opportunity to go all over this country what makes me feel confident. i have been there, i've been iowa, i've been in california and i've been all over the state of vermont and you know what? ordinary people do not agree with the ruling class of this country that the status quo is acceptable. go out and ask them. whether they think the ruling class is protecting their interests and people say no, we want real change. now the problem is how do you take on this big money? how do you take it on politically when billionaires can buy elections? you want to run for office? i can put 100 million dollars into a super pac supporting you or opposing you. is that democracy? i don't think so. we have more concentration of ownership in this country in sector after sector, whether it's wall street, transportation, whether it's pharmaceutical industry, a

handful of large corporations. it's media. we talk about corporate ownership of media much? >> listen, i stand by what we put on the air here, and we ask tough questions, but what i would ask you in return, i know that you have embraced social media. you write about it in your book is a way of getting your campaign message across. do you take issue with facebook and twitter. their owners are not exactly -- >> you're exactly right and that's a discussion we have to have. from our perspective, we utilized what we could. but i think as a nation, you are not going to be a vibrant democracy unless you have a vibrant media. and my view a media, it's not donald trump's view i, don't believe that for a second. there are serious reporters trying to do the job. but if you ask people are we really discussing the structural crises facing america, why do we not have health care for one? what about three people will --

only half of american society. and questions like that, we really don't have that kind of discussion. >> i think there is a limitation on what is discussed broadly in the media that has a lot to do with a lot of different factors. not just ownership but the structure of how media is funded, but i also think that people have been disenchanted >> that's right. >> in your book, there is our continuous notes of optimism. the word angry is in red on the cover. i ask you, how do you calibrate the sort of total dissonance between being at once, really hopeful about the possibilities and really angry about the realities. how do you convince people not just to be angry but to be hopeful about that things can change. >> that is a great question, i wish i could give you a brilliant answer to that i, can't. but it's a great question. i can tell you two things. that ordinary people by the millions and this is one of the

reasons why trump became president, they don't believe what goes on in washington anymore. you see people, we, talk and we talk, and i say you know what i can't afford health care. i can't afford to send my kids to hospital. i don't have any paid medically. cost of housing is going up, schools -- you keep talking. what are you doing? why should i believe in democracy? when life expectancy in my community is actually going down while billionaires are getting richer. you guys talk, you don't do a damn thing. and then donald trump comes along okay? so to my mind, if you are really serious, you just talked about a five minutes ago, if you are serious about preserving american democracy, government has to deliver for people. and in order for government to deliver for working people, you know what? you have to have the guts to take on the ruling class of this country, which today has enormous economic power, political power and media power. you've got to do that. and the democratic party has got to say, we are standing with you.

we are gonna guarantee you health care, we're taking on the drug companies. you're gonna be able to send your kids to college tuition free. you know what? we're not gonna have a child care system in disarray, and if you're pregnant he won't have a baby, can have it for months nine months paid leave. >> can i have those months retroactively? >> just like in scandinavia. this is what we have to bring our people together, black, white and latino to stand up to justice and have the courage to take on big money interests. >> senator sanders, you are an inspiration to people who very much care about these issues and understand their importance. you are all business, all the time, which is one of the most lovely, charming impenetrable things about you. i don't know if you know that your seriousness has been captured on tiktok. i think it's from today. do we have the video? can we just show it to the viewing public? you're walking through the street and there you are in the background, totally annoyed.

it's like perfection! >> yeah that looks like. me >> you got places to go. you don't have time for a tiktok video, yet you're the best part of it. senator thank you for your time. congratulations on keeping us awake in doing the work. >> thank you for the great job you're doing. >> thank you and good luck with book sales. much more to come tonight. president biden is taking on vladimir putin as the invasion of ukraine nears its first anniversary. what does winning look like at this point? we'll get perspective from some of the supplements rise to power in russia. plus, but this election on your radar. it is a little one with massive consequences. we'll tell you all about it. that's next. that's next. hey, man. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance. so you only pay for what you need! whoo! we gotta go again. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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in the primary for wisconsin supreme court. voters are choosing between four different candidates to replace soon to be retired conservative justice. now conservatives on the court have a 43 majority right now. they have control of the state supreme court for the last 14 years and because of the near constant deadlock between democratic governor tony evers and the legislature where the republicans hold a supermajority, justices on that bench have essentially become the arbiters on issues like

absentee voting, to public health issues, to upholding the 2020 election results. and tonight the ballots hangs in the balance. to understand the gravity of even the possibility of challenging the political leanings of the court, take a look at this. this is considered one of the most gerrymandered naps in the country. it is wisconsin state legislative district map. this is the virgin drawn by the state assembly in 2021. in march of 2022, the supreme court decided wisconsin could not use government near ever's preferred map, so this was the approved version, the one drawn by the state assembly. let's take a closer look at two assembly districts in particular on that map. on the left, are the old versions of these districts before they were redrawn by the reassembly in 2021. on the right are the redrawn versions. republicans won both districts in 2022, one narrowly and the other in a landslide. skewed maps like these have

suppressed the number of competitive state assembly seats in every election cycle. because of rigged maps like these, wisconsin republicans have had almost a monopoly on the legislature. if pushed democrats into a smaller number of solidly democratic blue districts, thereby ensuring that republicans will always maintain majority of seats. case in point, in the ten closest assembly state races that republicans won in 2022, the margin was 7.5 points. the ten closest races the democrats what, the margin was 15.2 points. now we know that the state of wisconsin is deeply, sharply divided along partisan lines. for the last six presidential elections were decided by less than a percentage point. but the fact that year after year elections keep resulting in a staunchly republican legislature, that is a pretty good sign that something is off with the district maps. and is wisconsin voters could take a step towards solving that problem tonight.

after the votes are counted, the top two vote getters will advance to the april 4th general election. there are two liberals into conservatives on the ticket today. as long as liberal advances, there's a good chance of that person might win in april, flipping the court to a liberal majority. if that happens, experts all but guaranteed it democrats or bring cases challenging those apparently fishy redrawn legislative maps. and by the way the, courts also expect to weigh in on wisconsin zombie abortion ban that makes it a felony to perform an abortion except to save the life of the mother. and despite being dormant for the last 49 years, that ban went into effect last summer after the supreme courts overturning of roe v. wade. the zombie ban has been tied up in the courts ever since. a liberal wisconsin supreme court can ensure the people seeking abortions in that state are not totally barred from access. so a lot hinges on the balance of would get wisconsin's court, and tonight's the first night

that we make a catch a glimpse of where it is all headed. coming up. it's democracy versus a top russi. stay with us that's next. us that's next not part of it but the whole upstairs the whole downstairs the whole fridge and the whole secret nap room because is it really a vacation home if you have to share a house with a host? ♪ only with vrbo known as a passionate artist. known for loving the outdoors. known for getting everyone together. no one wants to be known for cancer,

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>> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? safelite makes it easy. >> tech vo: you can schedule in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust. >> man: looks great. >> tech: that's service on your time. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ , one year into this war, putin no longer doubts the strength of this coalition, but he still doubts our conviction. he gets our staying power, he doubts our continuing support for ukraine. he doubts whether nato can

remain unified. but there should be no doubt. our support for ukraine will not waver. nato will not be divided and we will not tire. [applause] >> that was president biden today in poland making it very clear that he views the war in ukraine is the decision of one man, russian president vladimir putin. biden is the speech affirming american commitment to ukraine as a split screen for the history books because. because also today president putin gave today what is the russian version of the state of the union. and in that speech, he telegraphed that he plans to be in this war for the long haul. putin announced that going forward, russian troops will be allowed to week breaks from the military service every six months and, he announced that russia will be suspending the last nuclear arms accord between moscow and washington. so what do we take away from this political theater? joining us now is peter baker, he was a washington post bureau

chief during initial rise of putin and he's now chief white house correspondent for the new york times. peter, thank you for being with me tonight. i want to read you this analysis that was published in politico earlier today in which the way which putin's share selling this war in russia. in short, these days in russia, it's hard to explain the presidents appeal to the past. this is putin's strategy, to recall the ghost of world war ii, to talk about the aggression from outside russia. how is he selling this to russians at this point? >> that's exactly right. what he's trying to do is create the idea that russian is under threat. you hear him use the term not sees all the time. he invoked that world war ii sense of a nation by out of it or 1941. he's trying to reproduce that. he says the west started the war in ukraine, as opposed to russian sending forces unprovoked justice friday.

he talks of nato-ism, which is a masters-ism of nato and not see, equating the west with a not seize the historic lows of russia. what he's trying to do here is justify what he has done and given excused to the russian people for why they should be sitting and sending their boys, their sons, their brothers, their husbands into battle in a country that did them no harm. i think that's a situation there because is it is not gone the way he expected it to go. if there was gonna be a president in kyiv this week, you thought it was gonna be him, not president biden. >> for sure, and it feels like biden and putin understand the type of larger existential threats that are on the table here. that's why the u.s. calibration of what type of weaponry we are sending over to ukraine's been so careful. i wonder though if you think the rest of europe understands the sort of existential threats in the same way that apparently

putin and biden do? it seems they have had to sacrifice the most, other than the ukrainians and those russian soldiers that did not want to fight the war, but the germans for example, those countries that are not yet in nato, that are in danger of a russian increased russian aggression. are they in it for the long haul do you think? >> that's a good question and it depends on the country. why did biden choose to go to poland? because poland's and the other soviet bloc countries like the baltics, like the czech republic, these are countries that saw what it was like to be under the yoke of moscow in the old days. that's why they are the most fervent and helping ukraine defeat the russian endeavors, more fervent than perhaps the french and the germans, who are further away, less threatened in a way that the polls and the law feels in the checks are. that's one thing. the question is whether or not the western europeans who have in fact had to enroll a whole lot more than the americans have in terms of the cost of

war will stick with it for the duration. they've had energy issues obviously, they get a lot of their energy from russia. fortunately it's been a relatively mild winter, it has been a crisis that a lot of people thought it would be. it has affected their economies, their trade, their energy situations, and they paid a bigger price in that sense in the united states. but they also understand, that if you speak to the french and the germans in the brits, they understand that it's an important ethical moment in the east west versus each other kind of struggle, and that there's something bigger on the table than just the independents of ukraine. >> the partisan numbers on u.s. support for this involvement to ukraine are stark. democrats overwhelmingly supported, republicans do not. is the white house gonna try to change that dynamic at all in the coming months do you think? >> i think that's one of the reasons president biden is there this week to do the. he goes to kyiv, it goes to warsaw in order to speak not

just putin which is obviously what audits and to a crane is which is another, but to his own audience in the eye united states. for the very reason you just talked about, to tell them why it matters in his view that the united states is so invested in the ukrainian war. there is a fatigue factor. these numbers have gone down. in may a sauce a number 60% of american supported military aid to the ukrainians, now is down about 48%. you're right, and softening more on the republican side in the democratic side. you see that playing out even in the margin republican primary in the republican side. you see donald trump saying biden cares more about ukraine than he does the united states. even ron desantis saying saying things similar saying you have this isolationist ring of the republican party starting to speak out a little more. kevin mccarthy was playing to them last fall when he said it should be a black check in terms of future aid to ukraine. but then you have the more established republicans, the mitch mcconnells of the party,

who i think is still the majority in congress, who still favors standing up to russia, which harkens from the historical position republican party and the cold war, the party that took on the russian menace as they sought at the time. so i think that battle is starting to play out so fast, it's gonna be a real important during this primary season. >> it's not just a theoretical battle, has real repercussions turns of the global stage. peter baker, always great to see you. thank you for your time. we will be right back. we will be right back. ♪ when pain says, “i'm here,” ♪ i say, “so are they.” just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. aleve who do you take it for?

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we'll see you again tomorrow. and now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening lawrence. wgood evening lawrence and we now have a most famous grand jury in the history of jurisprudence emily course gave