route. and here is what is going to happen. and you do not want to go there, which is kind of what the biden administration did in the lead up to ukraine. so, making those threats, but making them -- not just threats, but promises, privately, rather than just public bluster. >> it will be interesting to see how this plays out. we are, of course, approaching the one year anniversary of the war, and certainly people in ukraine are bracing for what they thought would be an increase in attacks from ukraine but now after two days of being on the world stage, joe biden, we are wondering what that response is going to look like -- we appreciate the time from both of you tonight. joe cirincione and julia ioffe, thank you very much. that's all in for this tuesday night. i'm ali velshi, live from kyiv, ukraine. alex wagner tonight starts right now. wagner tonight starts right now. i'm ali velshi mum from kyiv, ukraine. >> thanks, ali, and especially for that great work you're doing overseas. and thanks to all of you at home for being here tonight. we're starting in the state of

georgia. fulton county district attorney faunae willis has yet to say whether or not she'll seek indictments in her spalling criminal investigation into donald trump and his allies efforts to subvert the 2020 election. but today one of the grand jurors t in that, she's speakin out. nbc's blayne alexander sat down with herxa this afternoon for h first television interview, and she dropped a whole lot of hints. >> did the grand jury recommend indictments of multiple people? >> yes. i will tell you it's not a short list. i mean we saw 75 people, and there are six pages of the report cut out. >> so we're talking about more than a dozen people? >> i would say that, yes. >> are these recognizable names,

names that people would know? >> there are certainly names that you would recognize, yes. there definitely are some names that you'd expect. >> the grand jury forewoman telling nbc news today that a dozen people recommended indicted, a dozen's a lot. and did the grj recommend an indictment against the former president? take a listen. >> did the grand jury recommend an indictment of former president trump? >> i'm not f going to speak on that indictment. >> would we be surprised? are there bombshells? >> i don't think there are any giant -- that's not the way i expected this to go at all.

i don't think that's in store forth anyone. >> so nothing a surprise for people who would be following this. >> probably not.e i wouldn't want to characterize anyone's reaction, of course. but probably not. it probably wouldn't shock you. i would not expect you to be too shocked, no. >> and that includes the former president, potentially. >> potentially, it might. >> it's hard to parse that one out. again, on the subject of a potential trump indictment she was asked today about trump's claim the grand jury's report totally exonerated him. in response khors rolled her eyes and burst out laughing. did he really say that, she asked. oh, that's fantastic. i love it.

we also learned that trump's former chief of staff mark meadows did in fact testify to the special grand jury for an hour and a half. this is information we did not know previously. khors further revealed many witnesses who came to testify before the grand jury did so already having beendi granted immunity. >> how many people came into the room toop testify with immunity deals already in place? >> maybe a dozen. >> in a series of interviews today khors also told the atlanta journal trump made more phone calls. this is what khors said about those calls. we heard at lot of recordings president trump on the phone, dedeclining to give specific. it is amazing how many hours of footage you can find of that mao on the phone. some of these that were privately record by people were recorded by a staffer.

now, this is a person who volunteered to be the forewoman of the special grand jury but did not vote in 2016, and did not vote in 2020. in fact she told the atlanta journal she'd never voted period, and she'd never heard the infamous calls between donald trump and brad raffensperger before the grand jury. or what might be a giant plot twist inia this person's mind o what might not be is all very complicated. in addition to all the things i just capped, she also said things like this. >> my coolest moment was shaking rudy giuliani's hand. that was really cool for me. i made a stop of stopping him and being like, wait, before you go back to this, can i shake

your hand because it's an honor to meetbe the guy, really neat r me. >> okay, what we have in these interviews is a window into the thought process of the special grand jury that heard evidence in perhaps the most legally perilous investigation of a former president in american history, aer special grand jury led by someone who has never beforeho participated in our democracy vosh voting, someone in our proceedings drew skrechs of witnesses like lindsey graham and mark short, and who swore in at least one witness, i'm not kidding here holding a teenage mutant ninja turtles popsicle stick. this wasn't just a jury, this wasn't just a grand jury. this was a special grand jury to give fulton county the necessary

explosives to go forward. joining me now, gentlemen, thank you for being here to understand what is happening. you know, i want to start -- michael, if i could start with you just because you have an understanding of the way -- you have a granular understanding of the way things play out in the state of georgia. what do you make of emily khors coming out and saying what she had to a say. >>he i'm glad to be with both o you andla the thing that strucke is that's your jury and these are the people sitting on a jury deciding whether or not to issue a conviction in the case. i was taken back a little bit b some of the comments that were

made, and i think it's dangerous that you do that and you talk about thingsth that went on in e grand jury room. that's why the grand jury process is secret. i realize here it's an advisory panel, it's not the same as a criminal grand jury, but it troubles me to hear the th prosecutor's evidence out in the public like that before we know which people may be indicted and on what charges. i think it ought to be troubling to anybody. but, again, that's your jury. people just like her are going to sit on that jury and make a decision about whether or not to convict somebody, and that's troubling. look, she didn't reveal anything we didn't know. i mean, for crying out loud i don't think there's any secret. there's nothing new in what she told neus, but, you know, it's you hear it first-hand. to hear things like i was taken to shake someone's hand, or i

trusted somebody to do this, you know, that's -- it's unusual. and remember we don't use special purpose grand juries in georgia very much. we just have criminal grand juries that jmeet. you can use them, but this may be a reason that the prosecutors should have gone forward with a very clean case, a very focused case and not turned this into something of a yearlong expedition where we now have this type of information out there. it's not going to effect -- there's no real motion the defendants may file in the case, but sure gives them a lot of fodder talking about it in the pres to try to undermine the public's confidence in the prosecution's decision to move forward. >> and do want to talk about that, now, michael moore is sanguine about the fact maybe a dozen people may be getting indicted in all this and playing armchair psychologist demanded

frequently in the trump years but on this count particularly trying to gethi in the head of this forewoman saying there's no bombshells, here, and i'm trying to understand is the bombshell indicting trump or not indicting trump? >> i think all of us watching this know where this is headed because we saw the evidence in the january 6ncth hearings. we heard the raffensperger tape way back in january of 2021. this is all roads lead to donald trump, and we know about the fake electors. it's hard to imagine that he's not getting indicted and that a lot of people areg getting indicted. and that was the inference most people drew from the six missing pages in the nine-page grand jury report. so in that sense i agree with michael, we didn't learn that page, but l there are still som tidbits in there that she probably should not have let slip out. and, you know, she was a little

cute when it came to the question of trump, right? and mean particularly with i guess the ajc, the newspapers and laughing -- >> yes, rolling her eyes. >>ro rolling her eyes. you know, can't blame her. >> well, it is the enormity of the task at hand for someone who's someone sort of a political neophite, if you will. >> she was enjoying herself a little too much. >> but inli terms of legal peri faunae willis has been very reluctant to talk about this at all.is she's sat for interviews but she hasn't divulged much, and this jury is important for her optically it seems. there are crucial parts of public confidence if she goes forward with indictments. i wonder if not enterms of the law, in terms of the politics of all this, whether that's been

compromised by the information we have today in terms of faunae willis' path forward. >> i don't think she needed the grand jury for cover for any legalan reason.le she had basically a confession from the former president when he made the call to raffensperger. her problem is political when she's spent the time in fulton county to do this. part of the reason there's been a spike in crime in fulton county and voters are going to be questioning should we be catching the robbers and the car jackers versus, you know, tending to all these issues before the special purpose grand jury for the last year? could we have used our resources somewhere else? so that's the question for her. she reallye needed the politic cover here because she had a case, but she use this i think to sort of weave a bigger net. and she's used to get into the things we've heard about rico and are we going to indict on a

conspiracy. and we've heard all these things over the last year when she, in fact, i think the had a very clean case, but it is to say that, you know, this was not what i think she would want people to think about the work of a special purpose grand jury. and this -- i think she's upset by doing some media purposes early on by talking about the case and i think it would serve her well and serve the grand jury well. you speak only on things that might give the public just some information about a status. but to talk specifically about evidence and this kind of stuff is not what she wanted. i've not spoken to her about it, but i can imagine she would have wanted this to be sort of the

face of the work of the special purpose grand jury. >> trump has tried to preempt any bad news by saying he's totally exonerated in all of this. it sounds like he may not be totally exonerated in this. >> he didn't specifically say trump had been indicted so he might take the similar position she didn't say i was indicted so therefore i'm exonerated. trumpian logic. >> do you expect him -- the fact she said she was enamored of rudy giuliani and that was an amazing moment for her, he's someone weaponized very small things in the past. what isth your expectation here? >> he'll weaponize whatever you can and say inconsistent things, he'll say whatever comes to his mind at any given moment, and at the end ofy the day i think th is a one-day story. i think they may make a big deal out of this at some point in some papers, but at the end of

the day there's going to be a grand juryin as michael points out, one that actually indicts these people whether a dozen of them or not, and at the day they have to put on a case. the fulton county d.a.'s office has to put on a case, and if there are these other tapes, yes, if there are these other tapes and we know there's this whole fake elector scheme, there is a multifaceted conspiracy here. and just asti the january 6th committee pointed out, there was just a multifaceted effort to overturn the election and some of those facets manifested themselves in georgia. and at the end of the day that evidence that goes in is going to decide this case. >> michael, when we talk about what sort of bore fruit in this impanelled grand jury the fact george mentions there were tapes

we don't know about, many of them apparently -- tell us more forewoman, khors. that was really interesting. mark meadow, the fact he had testified before this grand jury. we did not fte know many people least k a dozen were given immunitywe to testify and were more forthcoming in that or testimony. what stood out to you as most interesting in the bread crumbs that were dropped? >> well, i wasn't surprised at all to hear about the immunity forab folks, and that is that we've talked about the special electors and the schemepe and ts type of thing, the false slate of electors. and there was some litigation about that, who could and could not testify, who could have lawyers, the same lawyer and this type of thing here in the state. so i really wasn't surprised about that. it was the additional tape i think caught my attention or tapes she said and recordings, and what she was willing to say about searching and finding other things in phone calls

online and this type of thing. that to me is going to be interesting. again, there's nothing that she did or nothing that she said i think will be a very successful tactical attack s on any future case should there be one, and i have told you i think there will be, but she basically gave information and gave pieces of evidence and gave sort of an idea about the prosecution's strategy early on that wouldn't be out at this point. and she gave a lot of fodder for things in court filings, motions whether their meritorious or not. and certainly she basically put some extra batteries in the megaphones for people who are likely to be defendants and given some things to complain about and talk about and to diminish the investigation itself and the validity of it, and the seriousness of the investigation and the grand jury proceedings through this. if you think about the special

purpose grand jury everyone is -- it's like getting a sticky note and handing it to the prosecutors. she has complete discretion who she wants to indict, what she wants to indict. she doesn't have to do a thing with this report. she can put it in her file cabinet and never look at it again, but this is what the public'sis hearing now. as a prosecutor you want the public especially in a case like this to have confidence in your decisions as you're moving forward and confidence in your ability to bring a case that can ultimately c sustain a convicti and appeal if it goes that far. again, she -- she i think probably undermined some of the seriousness of where we are, but nonetheless here we are, and i'm sure you're going to have defendants nowg or potential defendants or o future defendan wanting to hear all these extra wanting to know what other information is outkn ther wanting to know what jennifer

said to who and use that in the grand jury room and use that to attack the case the prosecution puts forward. >> is lindsey graham sweating it outright now? who do you think is in the most greatest peril knowing about what whoil said what publicly and -- >>li i think donald trump. all roadsnk go back to him. he's the one who was pushing, pushing raffensperger on that call, asking for a precise number of votes plus one, ignoring basically everything that raffensperger was saying about how there waser a lack of fraud. i mean, he was the driving force behind this, and he was involved as wewa saw in the january 6th hearings, he was involved in the fake elector schemes and various things. and all roads lead to him. he's the epicenter of the conspiracy. >> okay, so that is not a plot twist ort maybe it is -- >> it's not a plot twist. >> you think it's happening. michael moore, george conway,

thank you both for joining me this evening. >> pleasure to be with you. thank you. it is a busy news night with a historicgh election for a vacan congressional seat in the state ofse virginia. while wisconsin voters went to the polls today to cast their ballots in a race crucial for the future of democracy in their state. plus senator bernie sanders will be live in the studio with me. we have quite a bit to talk about. he'll be here live coming up next. alk about. he'll be here live coming up next

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we believe in science. >> we don't mind proving to you. >> okay. >> that was president biden's epa administrator michael regan and ohio's republican governor mike dewine drinking the water in east palestine, ohio, today where a train derailment three weeks ago dumped untold amounts of hazardous chemicals into that small ohio community. many residents are reportedly still experiencing symptoms like rashes and burning sensations that are consistent with exposure to dangerous chemicals, and they are skeptical about government's ability to both ensure their safety and hold the rail company responsible for this crash. that skepticism is not unwarranted. during the obama administration rail companies lobbied to narrow new safety rules governing the transportation of dangerous chemicals. one of the companies behind that lobbying campaign was norfolk southern, the company whose

train was carrying the toxic chemicals dumped in east palestine. and during the trump administration they rolled back those safety rules. rail companies successfully lobbied congress to quash that strike threat without addressing worker safety concerns even as rail companies lined shareholder pockets with more than $10 billion in stock buy backs. the residents of east palestine are feeling the results of a decades long battle between corporate powers and a democratically elected government. one of the elected officials who has spent his career focused on that very struggle is vermont senator bernie sanders. this week he's out with a new book "it's okay to be angry about capitalism." he writes the ruling class get

their lobbyists to work on assuring that when policies and regulations are written thal agree to their advantages. by the time americans are catching on the rules have already been rigged so that the rich get richer and everyone else gets left behind. when the oligarchs and corporate world are raging a class war against working class americans, the working class needs a party that will fight back and win. joining us now is vermont senator bernie sanders. thank you for joining me. congrats on the book. i'm sorry we still have to be writing about some same problems entrenched in american society for quite some time. i want to talk to you about before we get to the substance of the book although this has much to do with that, what's happening in ohio? it seems the nexus of three problem you detail in the book. the first is corporate lobbying, the strength of it in terms of shaping public policy, worker rights and health care for the most vulnerable communities in this country.

what should democrats be doing at this moment as national news coverage is focused on this issue that dove tails so many of the fundamental american problems. >> it's interesting this derailment and accident took place just at the moment some of us had been taken on the rail industry, as you indicated record breaking profits. what we should add to what you said is that in the last six years based on what wall street wanted to increase profits, they have down sized their workforce by 30% in six years. so you talk to the workers and say we're asked to do more work with fewer people, and that causes safety concerns. that's what the workers have told us. and then on top of all of that these rail executives that make zillions of dollars a year couldn't find it in their hearts to provide one day of paid sick leave for their workers. and i think we've had some impact. the railroads are beginning to do that as a result of public

pressure. but as you indicated this is just another example of incredible wall street corporate power at the expense of workers, at the expense of a community and ohio now and the general community. >> i mean the governor of pennsylvania looks like he's looking at criminal indictments for this. i mean, what is -- what is the punitive measure that should be sought out at this point? >> we have allowed these guys and corporate america in general, that's what this whole book is about to get away with murder. and it's not just the railroads. it's the pharmaceutical industry that charges us the highest prices in the world. they raise their prices, and you know what, people die. and they could do anything they want, and the government, well, they have 1,700 paid in the pharmaceutical industry in washington, d.c. , it's health care. you tell me, alex, how the

richest country on earth is only the only country not to guarantee health care to people but good news they make billions of dollars in profit. it's what's going on in america. and the bottom line is middle class continues to shrink. we have more income and welt inequality in america today than we've ever had. >> you write at the beginning of the book it's considered by some to -- to question the american power structure, to question the way the country is run is un-american, and it harkens so much back to the 1960s where there's this notion of anybody who asks tough question of those in power, who challenge the status quo, oh, you're a flaming liberal, you can't be taken seriously, the true patriots, the true americans abide the law, they wear the tie. >> they don't abide the law, they make the law. and you can't have any criminal problems with these guys because

they have made the law. >> exactly. and they refuse to ask questions about systemic injustice whether they're economic, racial, what have you. it somehow is anti-american. and it feels like we're back -- we're back having the same debate we had in the civil rights era. >> i'll tell you something. somebody has had the opportunity to go all over this country, what makes me feel confident, i've been there. i have been to iowa and i've been to california and all over the state of vermont. and you know what? ordinary people do not agree with the ruling class of this country that the status quo is acceptable. go out and ask them whether they think the ruling class is protecting and people say, no, we want real change. now, the problem is how do you take on this big money when billionaires can buy elections? you want to run for office i can put $100 million in the

super-pack supporting you or opposing you. is that democracy? i don't think so. we have more concentration of ownership in this country in sector after sector whether it's wall street, transportation, whether the pharmaceutical, it's media. we talk about corporate ownership of media much? >> well, listen, i standby what we put on the air here, and we ask tough questions. i would ask you in return i know you have embraced social media, you write it in the book as a way you got your campaign message across. and i would say do you take issue with facebook, do you take issue with twitter? >> you're absolutely right, and that's a discussion we have to have. from our perspective we utilize what we could, but i think as a nation you're not going to be a vibrant democracy unless you have a vibrant media. and my view on media it's not donald trump and fake news, you've got serious reporters trying to do their job, but i

think if you ask people are we really discussing the struck structural crises facing america and questions like that, we really don't have that kind of discussion. >> look, i think there is a limitation what is discussed broadly in the media and that has to do with a lot of different factors of ownership and the structure of the way media is funded, but i also think, you know, people have gotten disenchanted with government, and you in your book there is a note -- there are continuous notes of optimism, but there's also the word angry is in red on the cover and i ask you how do you calibrate, you know, the sort of tonal dissonance between being at once really hopeful about the possibilities and really angry about the reality? i mean how do you kwens people not just to be angry but also

hopeful things can change? >> that's a great question. i wish i had a brilliant answer to it. look, i can tell you two things. that ordinary people by the millions -- and this is one of the reasons why trump became president. they don't believe what goes on in washington anymore. they see people and we talk and talk and they say you know what, i can't afford health care, i don't have any paid family medical leave. what are you doing? why should i believe in democracy when life exec execancy in my community is going down and billionaires become richer and donald trump comes along. to my mind if we're really serious and we just talked about it, if they're serious about preserving american democracy, gump has to deliver for people. and in order for government to deliver for working people, you're going to have to have the

guts to take on the ruling class of this country which today has enormous political power, economic power. and the democratic party has to say you know what workers, we're standing with you, we're taking on the drug companies, you are going to be able to send your kids to college tuition-free. we're not going to have a child care system in disarray, and if you're pregnant and have a baby you can take eight or nine months in leave. >> can i take those months. >> they exist in scandinavia. >> senator sanders, you know you are an inspiration to people who very much care about these issues and understand their importance. you are all business all the time, which is one of the most lovely, charming, impenetrable things about you. i don't know if you know but you're seriousness has been

captured on tiktok. i think it's from today. do we have the video? there's some tiktoker walking down the street and there you are in the background totally annoyed. it's like perfection. you just got places to go. you don't have time for a tiktok video and yet you're the best part of it. senator, thank you for your time. congratulations on keeping us awake and doing the work. >> thank you for the great job you're doing. >> thank you. and good luck with book sales. much more to come tonight. president biden is taking on vladimir putin as the invasion of ukraine nears its first anniversary. what does winning look like at this point? we'll get perspective from someone who witnessed putin's rise to power in russia. plus but this election on your radar. it is a little one with massive consequences. we'll tell you all about it. that's next. es we'll tell you all about it. that's next.

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earlier this hour polls closed in the primary for wisconsin's supreme court. voters are choosing between four different candidates to replace soon to be retired conservative justice. now, conservatives on the court have a 4-3 majority right now. they've controlled the state supreme court for the past 14 years. and because of the near constant deadlock between democratic

governor tony overs and the legislature where republicans hold the super majority justice on that bench has essentially become the arbiters on issues on absentee voting to public health emergencies to upholding the 2020 presidential election results. and tonight the balance of that bench hangs, well, in the balance. to understand the gravity of even the possibility of changing the political leanings of the state high court take a look at this map. this is considered one of the most gerrymandered maps in the country. let's take a look at two assembly districts in particular on their map. on the left are the old versions of these districts, before they were redrawn by the assembly in 2021.

on the right are their redrawn versions. republicans won both districts in 2022, won narrowly and the other in a landslide. skewed maps like these have suppressed the number of state competitive seats in every election cycle. because of rigged maps like these wisconsin republicans have had almost a monopoly on the legislature. they've pushed democrats into a smaller number of solidly democratic blue districts and thereby ensuring republicans will always maintain a majority of seats. here's case in point, in the ten closest state assembly races republicans won in 2022 the margin was 7.5 points. the ten closest points democrats won the margin was 15.2 points. now, we know the fate of wisconsin is deeply, sharply divided along partisan lines. four of the last six presidential elections were decided by less than a percentage point. but the fact that year after year elections keep resulting in

a staunchly republican legislature, that is a pretty good sign that something is off with the district maps. and wisconsin voters could take a step towards solving that problem tonight. after their votes are counted the top two vote getters will advance to the april 4th election. as long as at least one liberal advances there's a good chance that person might win in april flipping the court to a liberal majority. if that happens, experts all but guarantee that democrats will bring cases challenging those apparently fishy redrawn legislative maps. and by the way the court also expects to weigh in on wisconsin's zombie abortion ban that makes it a felony to perform an abortion except to save the life of the mother. despite being dormant for the past 49 years that ban wept into effect last summer after the supreme courts overturned roe v. wade. that zombie ban has been tied up in the courts ever since.

tonight is the first night we might catch a glimpse where it's all headed. ing to coming up it's democracy versus autocracy. stay with us. that's next. y versus autocracy stay with us that's next. detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is for some adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment or replacing their current hiv-1 regimen. detect this: no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. research shows people who take hiv treatment as prescribed

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even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. one year into this war putin no longer doubts the strength of our coalition, but he still doubts our conviction.

he doubts our power, doubts our continued support for ukraine, doubts whether nato can remain unified, but there should be no doubt. our support for ukraine will not waver. nato will not be divided and we will not tire. >> there was president biden today in poland making it very clear he views the war in ukraine as the decision of one man, russian president vladimir putin. biden used the speech affirming american commitment to ukraine to create a sort of split screen for the history books because also today president putin gave what is saemgs the russian version of the "state of the union" and in that speech putin telegraphed that he is also planning to be in this war for the long haul. putin announced that going forward russian troops will be allowed two-week break from their military service every six months and announced russia will be suspending the last nuclear

arms accord between moscow and washington. joining us now is peter baker. he was "the washington post" chief during the rise of putin. i want to read you this analysis published in politico today about the way in which putin is selling this war to the people of russia. basically these days in russia if the president is hard to explain appeal to the past. and it seems like this is putin's strategy here to recall the ghosts of world war ii, to talk about the aggression from outside russia. i mean is that -- how is he selling this to russians at this point? >> that's exactly right. what he's trying to do is create the idea russia is under threat. that's why you hear him use the term nazis all the time, right, to invoke that world war ii sense of invasion in 1941.

he said the west started the war in ukraine as opposed to, of course, russia sending forces unprovoked a year ago this friday. he talks about sort of a bastardization of nato and nazism. so i think what he's trying to do here of course what he's done and give an excuse to the russian people why they should be sending their boys, their sons, their brothers, their husbands into battle in a country that did them no harm, and i think that's the situation here because this has not gone the way he expected it to go, that there's going to be a president in kyiv this week, he thought it was going to be him, not president biden. >> for sure. it feels like biden and putin understand the sort of larger existential threats that are on the table here, right, and that's why the u.s. sort of calibration over what weapon we were sending over to ukraine has been so careful.

i wonder, though, if you think the rest of europe understands the sort of existential threats in the same way putin and biden do. i mean it seems like they've had to sacrifice the most other than ukrainians and those russian soldiers that did not want to fight the war. but the germans, for example, those countries not yet in nato that are in danger of increased russian aggression, are they in it for the long haul, do you think? >> why did biden choose to go to poland? poland and the other former soviet bloc countries like the baltics, like the czech republic, these are the countries that saw what it was like to be under moscow during the old days. that's why they're most fervent about helping ukraine defeat the russian invaders more than the germans who are further away.

the question is whether or not the western europeans have in fact endured a whole lot more than americans have in terms of the cost of the war will stick with it for the long run. they've had energy issues, obviously. they get a lot of their energy from russia. it's been a relatively mild winter and hasn't been the crisis a lot of people thought it would be, but it has affected their economies, their trade, and they also understand i think they understand this is the east west versus kind of struggle and something on the table other than the independence of ukraine. >> what are the partisan numbers on the support for the involvement, the funding to ukraine are stark. democrats overwhelmingly support it. is the white house going to try to change that dynamic at all in

the coming months? >> i think that's one of the reasons why president biden is there this week. he goes to warsaw and not just to putin and not just ukraine versus another but because of that reason you talked about, to tell it why it matters in his view why the united states is so invested in the ukraine wherein war. there is a fatigue factor going down. in may last year i saw a number that said 60% of americans supported military aid to ukrainians and now it's down to about 48%. you're right, it's softening more on the republican side than the democratic side. you see donald trump saying biden, you know, cares more about ukraine than he does about the united states and even ron desantis saying something similar. so you have this isolationist wing of the republican party starting speak out a bit more and kevin mccarthy is playing to

them last fall when he said there shouldn't be a blank check in terms of future aid to ukraine. then you have the establishment republicans which at the most i think is still the majority in congress and still favor standing up to russia. it harkens from a historical position of the republican party during the cold war that the party that took on the russian menace as they saw it at the time, and i think that's trying to play itself out is going to be a really important one during this primary season. >> yeah, and it's not just a theoretical battle it has real repercussions. peter baker, thanks for your time. we'll be right back. baker, thanr time we'll be right back. that's been saving people money for nearly 60 years. for a great low rate, and nearly 60 years of quality coverage- go with the general.

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