good wednesday morning, i'm lindsey reiser at msnbc headquarters in new york. right now escalating tensions between the u.s. and russia with ukraine front and center. in the last hour, president biden led a show of unity with leaders of the so-called bucharest nine, our eastern european nato allies and he had this blunt message about the future. >> today as we approach the one-year anniversary of russia's invasion, it's either more important that we continue to stand together. because what's literally at stake is not just ukraine, it's freedom. >> looming over it all the spector of nuclear weapons with new comments from a top putin ally this morning saying russia has the right to defend itself with, quote, any weapon including the nuclear kind. this as we also learn russia told the u.s. it was going to test an intercontinental ballistic missile before president biden's trip to ukraine. and another wrinkle during a meeting with china's top

diplomat earlier, russian president vladimir putin says he expects a visit by china's president xi jinping in the future. the new questions that's raising about china's potential role in the conflict going forward. here at home, the national weather service warnings a historic storm is on the move. tens of millions of americans are under weather alerts coast to coast. minnesota is facing the worst of it. >> we are preparing for what will likely be an historic snow event. >> while on the flip side, get this, record heat is bubbling up across the south. we're tracking all of this wild where. plus, pennsylvania's governor is vowing a criminal referral over the train derailment just across the border in eastern ohio as the epa turns up the heat on the train company. >> we are making it very clear that norfolk southern will clean up the soil, will clean up the water. >> reporter: ahead, the polarizing visitor dropping in

on the community later today. we are going to start our correspondents overseas covering the diplomatic and military jockeying around ukraine. nbc's josh lederman is overseas following president biden in poland. erin mclaughlin is in ukraine's capital of kyiv, and nbc's keir simmons is in moscow where president putin just met with a top chinese diplomat today. tell us more about president biden's meeting with these critical nato allies as we're learning russia tested an intercontinental missile ahead of president biden's trip to kyiv. >> reporter: white house officials have been trying to down play some of the concerns about that icbm test by russia just ahead of president biden's trip to kyiv. they are saying that it was a failed test, but not really out of the ordinary, something that russia tests from time to time. u.s. officials saying they don't view it as an escalation that russia did inform the u.s. in advance of that test.

we're getting that reaction as president biden has been meeting here in poland with those nato members from the bucharest nine. those group of allies that are right on russia's doorstep who came together after russia's initial invasion in 2014 of ukraine. president biden once again pledging staunch and ongoing support for those allies as well as for ukraine. he was also asked as he was arriving for that meeting about russia's decision to suspend its participation in the last remaining and nuclear arms agreement between moscow and washington. president biden saying that was a big mistake. but we're also hearing the white house now responding to those comments you mentioned dmeet ri medvedev, the number two in russia's security council and a close ally of president putin, suggesting that russia would be justified in using nuclear weapons to defend itself against threats to its own sovereignty.

the white house saying those comments are unwarranted and irresponsible. >> talk to us about what russian officials are saying about that missile test. and china's top diplomat met with president putin who says he's looking forward to a visit by xi jinping. what more are we learning about that? >> reporter: it was interesting to see the readout from the kremlin of those comments between president putin and wang ye, china's top diplomat. it's interesting to see how determined president putin is to see that president xi comes to moscow. at the same time, we're hearing these noises that the chinese would like to see themselves playing the role in some cooped of peace deal. you've got to be a fly on the wall in those conversations, private conversations between the russian and chinese to see what the chinese are really saying, and what they're saying they would like, where they might be telling the russians they would like things to be before president xi might come to moscow. that is a fascinating thing. i think it's also interesting to

hear that chinese diplomat say something i think quite insightful, say in that readout that opportunities come from crisis. tells you something about the way the chinese view this as a crisis but what can we get from it, which of course is not going to help washington feel any trust. and then on the nuclear question and what russian officials are saying, i think this frankly is the same playbook we've seen for some time. you can be sure that the kremlin does not want to see -- to state the obvious -- a nuclear war with the u.s., but they do want to try to use it to get leverage, and i think that's what you're still seeing right there. >> so as nbc news reports, despite missile attacks and fierce fighting on the eastern front lines this winter, there is a sense that this is sort of the calm before the storm and both russia and ukraine are planning fresh campaigns to seize territory. what are you hearing and seeing ahead of this one-year mark?

>> reporter: here in kyiv, there is a sense of optimism about the current trajectory of this war. the ukrainians believe with u.s., with western support they have the upper hand at this point. at the same time, civilians are dying. yesterday there was a rocket attack on the southern city of kherson, a city that was once occupied by russian forces. that rocket attack killing at least five civilians and injuring 12. i was speaking to one kherson resident earlier today. he said that the strike happened while president putin was speaking. he said it happened meters away from where he was sitting on his couch at home, and he told me he thought he was going to die. take a listen. >> we are listening to mr. putin right during his speech we heard the shots and then -- we heard the shells falling into the town. it was very close to my place

around 400 meters. it's a horror. for the first seconds you never know what to do. all of your face squeezes. you just feel -- you look through your life, everyone is scared, even the military. >> now, ukraine's military intelligence chief gave an interview to some local media. it was published today. in that interview, he said that he believes that russian offensive has already begun. he said there seems to be evidence that the russians may be running out of missiles, may be running out of ammunition. and he believes that potentially by the end of the spring, there could be a turning point in this war. yet another ukrainian official that we're hearing from that is expressing some optimism again about the current trajectory. >> josh lederman, erin mclaughlin, keir simmons, thank you. let's bring in retired lieutenant jeff stef twitty.

how are we to read these latest moves from russia here, these latest comments from a top russian official saying russia has the right to use any weapon, including the nuclear kind. the white house calling it unwarranted and irresponsible. we just heard keir say russia doesn't want nuclear war with the u.s. what kind of leverage would they be looking for, and how should we look at this situation through the lens of russia pausing their participation in new start? >> yeah, lindsey, as you know, the s.t.a.r.t. treaty has been together since 1891 when gorbachev and president bush signed it together. it is a shame that the russians have backed out because that created transparency between the two countries, and so what i will tell you is the way we have to look at this now, there are other means in which we could look at the russians, and they

can look at us through intelligence, signal, you name it. and so from a s.t.a.r.t. perspective we'll still be able to monitor. i agree, i don't think russia wants a nuclear war. and we don't want a nuclear war. the key to this, although there's been a bunch of tension between both countries, we must keep the tie log open, and you can see that the dialogue is open somewhat because, you know, the president said that he was coming into ukraine, and informed the russians and there have been some other instances of dialogue, and so we must keep that open. >> general, the commonality between president biden and putin's dueling speeches yesterday was this point, the conflict is nowhere near an end. that means more weapons, it means more aid and it means a lot more money. how do we hold our allies together in the long run, and how does china potentially make

that harder? >> well, there's two pieces to that question. number one, the only way this war is going to stop or end, is that we either have to have negotiations that ends it, or we have to have a clear winner in this fight in order for this wa r to end. in this case here, at this juncture neither seem to be going on, and so we have to get the ukrainians the weapons that they need, the fire power that they need in order to tip the scales here and put it in a favorable advantage for them. in terms of china coming in for negotiations, i would actually welcome that. i would welcome anyone to start negotiations because somehow, some way we got to get this war to end, and maybe they can bring something to the table. >> general, on tuesday five house republicans visited kyiv just one day after president biden's historic visit there,

and this coalition was led by congressman michael mccaul of texas. he's the chair of the house foreign affairs committee, and he told reporters in kyiv that the momentum in washington was shifting towards sending long-range missies and sending those fighter jets. how has that changed things and why not do it right now? >> well, it would change things in a significant way. you've seen this grind on the ground for over a year now or coming up on a year no what the ukrainians need are those long range fires to be able to strike deep at logistical systems, communication systems, to destroy the russian artillery. it could tip the scales by providing f-16s. those things are going to fire deep in order to get into the russian's communications, logistics, artillery, those

types of things. so i welcome additional fire power for the ukrainians because that's what they need. they have the tenacity. they have the will power, but they lack the things that tip the scale. >> lieutenant general steph twitty, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you, good to be with you. right now a wild weather scenario is playing out from coast to coast. about 40 million americans, most across the northern half of the country are facing some sort of winter weather alert. as a major storm is set to break records in cities from california to maine. meanwhile, much of the south could be in for record breaking high temperatures. nbc's gabe gutierrez is in minneapolis, and also joining me is nbc meteorologist angie lassman. gabe, the twin cities, they're used to snow. they could get as much as 21 inches, one of the most in the state's history. how prepared are they? >> hi there, lindsey, good morning, so yes, this could potentially be one of the top five snow storms in minneapolis,

the region, of course, as you said they're used to wicked weather, but this is quite significant according to the national weather service, which is warning of potentially impossible travel conditions later today. so lindsey, i want to give you an idea. i mean, we went through the first wave of snow overnight, about 3 to 5 inches here, but the much more intense wave of snow is expected later on today. in just a few hours, we could see wind gusts of 45 miles per hour hear and a significant snowfall well into tomorrow. overnight, we also saw powerful winter weather and high winds in california, which knocked out power to hundreds of thousands of people. and travel has been treacherous in many parts of the country, montana, north dakota already seeing icy conditions. we've already had significant travel impacts. a thousand flights have been canceled today.

here in the twin cities, the governor has issued emergency executive orders to put the national guard on standby. again, we're expecting that second wave of snow to start in just a few hours, and that could make travel nearly impossible in many parts of this state. >> gabe gutierrez, thanks so much to you and your crew. angie, walk us through this. this is crazy to see these incredible extremes here. we have almost summer-like temperatures in the south. >> yeah, so we have a couple of different things that we're dealing with here, lindsey. we have plenty of winter weather that is going to be quite impactful over the coming days, and almost every state in the union is dealing with some sort of impactful weather here over the short-term. we have the 69 million people under those winter alerts. this is the storm system. it's very complex, very dynamic. in the northern tier of this system is the snow. that's where we'll see the heaviest of the snow. we have a bit of icing that we're going to deal with with freezing rain as well, and not to mention, we also have an active pattern that could develop here as we get into the later afternoon hours for severe

storms that include hail, damaging wind gusts and even some tornados. let's talk about those snow totals though. you can see in northern parts of michigan up to a foot of snow. higher amounts a little farther north in the upper peninsula of michigan, green bay up to a foot, about a foot and a half possible for sioux falls, and of course minneapolis, 14 to 22 inches, those are the estimates that we're going with as of right now. how does that tally up to what we've already seen in places like minneapolis in history? well, if we break 17 inches which is very possible, we could enter that top five spot. not quite as likely for us to take the top spot. but it's going to be impact nonetheless. blowing snow is going to make for travel to be even more difficult. we have the ice accumulation that we're going to see, power outages, again, difficult travel. the bull's-eye for some of that is going to be parts of southern michigan. you could see up to a quarter inch or a half inch of this ice

accumulating over the next day or so. and there's that severe weather. it does have impacts in places like st. louis, tulsa, all of these locations could have the potential to see strong to even severe storms. >> angie lassman, appreciate it. up next, a busy morning at the supreme court where we could get some major decisions this hour. and more arguments on whether social media companies are responsible for the content users post. plus, the floor woman of the georgia grand jury investigating election interference says they recommended charges against more than a dozen people including, quote, names that you would recognize. those details ahead. and new demands for the train company at the center of the ohio derailment to take responsibility and pay for the cleanup. >> it is my view that norfolk southern wasn't going to do this out of the goodness of their own heart. they needed to be compelled to act. needed to be compelled to act. little marzipan! [ laughs ]

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new consequences this morning for the embattled rail company at the center of that fiery train derailment on the ohio, pennsylvania border. the epa has now ordered norfolk southern to clean out the derailment site in east palestine, ohio, and cover all the costs. just yesterday during a news conference, pennsylvania governor josh shapiro announced his office has made a criminal referral in response to the disaster. >> we will hold accountable norfolk southern, the company that made this vigilance necessary. >> and now former president trump is getting involved in the situation. he's expected to visit communities impacted by the catastrophe later today. nbc's jesse kirsch is live in east palestine with more on what to expect. a lot of developments here. let's start with that rush of announcements from governor shapiro's office and the epa. what are the specifics?

>> reporter: the potential legal battles here are intensifying. pennsylvania's governor says his office has made a criminal referral in this matter. meanwhile, the epa saying it will literally make norfolk southern pay for the damage it has done. the epa says it has put out a legally binding order, which will mandate that norfolk southern identify and clean contaminated soil and water, pay any epa costs incurred, and participate in public meetings and post information online. for its part, norfolk southern saying in a statement we recognize that we have a responsibility and we have committed to doing what's right for the residents of east palestine. we are going to learn from this terrible accident and work with regulators and elected officials to improve railroad safety. in a rare interview yesterday with cnbc, we heard from the norfolk southern ceo. here's part of what he said.

>> since this occurred every single day i've asked myself what could we have done better? what could we have done to prevent this? and you know, morgan, it's pretty clear that our safety culture and our investments in safety didn't prevent this accident. >> reporter: all this as the transportation department says that it is making a renewed push for reforms on rail safety. we now know new information, the ntsb says that its preliminary report on this derailment will be coming out tomorrow. we are expecting that announcement tomorrow morning. so that's something we're going to be watching for very closely. that's something the ceo of norfolk southern had said that he is watching for as well. obviously a lot of questions, a lot of concerns in this community as residents continue

searching for answers. former president donald trump will be making a visit to this community. that's expected later today. lindsey. >> jesse kirsch, that you think. thank you. it's a busy day at the supreme court, a few minutes ago the justices released a pair of decisions. not the hotly anticipated ones we're awaiting, including voting right, affirmative action, lgbtq discrimination and elections. the question at the center of it is whether twitter can be sued for aiding and abetting the spread of isis ideology. this case concerns the death of a jordanian citizen killed in a terror attack in istanbul. his family asserts that the group's message would not have spread so quickly without the active assistance of twitter. nbc's julia ainsley is following all of this for us. this is the second big tech-related case before the are supreme court in two days.

it was so interesting yesterday when justice kagan said it's not like we're the nine greatest experts in the internet. what more do we hear about that and whether any of what they said yesterday could give us an inkling of what's going to happen today. >> it's something we should think about going into today, that basically, justices gorsuch and kagan actually agree that it probably isn't the supreme court's job to be weighing in here between these two extreme sides. yesterday you had the argument that these social media platforms, whether that be youtube or twitter shouldn't be responsible for content that outside users post on their platform. you have people arguing like the family of this one who was killed by isis that, look, they use algorithms, the twitter case similar to the you talk about case. in youtube they're using algorithms that would key useers

to look at the same violent content. they are not the experts on the internet, and justice gorsuch or rather justice kavanaugh said yesterday, look, whatever we do here could have big impacts on commerce. think about how much the internet and what you see and ads you see online are driven by your activity online already, so this could have a big impact on how commerce on the internet and how so many companies make their money through advertising online are impacted by that decision that they would make on the case yesterday as well as this case today. they're pretty similar and related. we could expect the justices to be asking similar questions today, really asking if it's their place to be weighing in on this, and kavanaugh saying, really, this is the job of congress. >> julia ainsley, thank you so much. we're going to talk to you later in the hour. up next, quote, it's not a short list. that's what the forewoman for the georgia grand jury investigating election interference said about how many people they recommended should

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to see homes in your budget. you're staying in school, jacob! realtor.com. to each their home. this morning we're learning new details about the georgia grand jury's probe. the forewoman for the grand jury is speaking publicly about the case confirming to nbc news the jury recommended indicting more than a dozen people. that's after a grand jury report last week revealed that the panel has interviewed 75 witnesses. nbc's blayne alexander spoke with the forewoman and joins me now. also with us is msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. what revelations did you learn from the forewoman, and why is she talking about this? >> reporter: well, lindsey, good to sea you. this was a very fascinating and kind of wide ranging interview. this was her first time speaking on air. this was her first television interview on this. we talked for about 45 minutes,

and you could tell that she was really trying to walk a fine line here. she obviously wanted to give information, wanted to answer questions, but at the same time was being very strong about wanting to comply with the judge's ruling saying that deliberations have to remain under wraps. that's why you kind of saw her in a number of questions i asked kind of walk up to the line but not necessarily step over it in her telling of this. here's one where i kind of asked her several times just what more we could glean from the recommendations of indictments that were made by the grand jury. here's what she had to say. >> there definitely are some names that you expect. >> did the grand jury recommend an indictment of former president trump? >> i'm not going to speak on exact indictments. i would not expect you to be too shocked, no. >> and that includes of the former presiden potentially? >> potentially it might. >> reporter: and just to kind of

tick through a couple of other things we learned from that interview. we do know that some people were granted immunity deals before they walked in, she says about a dozen or so. they were all names you wouldn't necessarily recognize, and we're not talking about high level witnesses. she says one person was given an immunity deal right there in the room to compel them to be more free with their testimony. as for the big question as to why she's speaking out about this. a couple of different things. i could tell it was very clear she felt a sense of duty about this. she was very kind of proud of the fact that she and fellow citizens played a role in what she deems to be an important process. she also said that she believes that information is going to get out there anyway, that this information's going to get out, and so she wanted to play some sort of role in kind of shaping how it's released. now, i certainly asked her if she thought that she was going to get any sort of blowback or threats from this. she said that what she wants people to know is that they were just kind of looking into something. these are people who were investigating something, looking into something. she believes that's important. she also said that she is not

concerned about any sort of blowback from speaking out about this, lindsey. >> okay, so lisa, we heard blayne say she walked up to the line, wouldn't cross the line, wouldn't talk about deliberations hear. the judge ordered the names of the 75 witnesses that the grand jury interviewed to be kept under wraps for the time being. kould the fact that she is talking at all hurt the probe in in way? >> i don't think so. it certainly will give rise to some motions, but that doesn't mean that those motions are going to succeed. look, for lawyers like me, emily cors is like an olympic gymnast on the balance beam. bun false step and she goes tumbling down, and we are all holding our breath to make sure she doesn't take that tumble. that having been said, she didn't reveal deliberations, and the amount of new information we got from her for as much talking as she did yesterday was fairly limited. i watched all of blayne's spectacular interview, and she tried every which way but sunday to get her to reveal more

information, but aside from confirming that certain people testified or dimensioning in numbers how many people the special grand jury recommended indictments for, she didn't cross that line. her bid for 15 minutes of fame shouldn't prevent anyone from getting a term of years if indict odd convicted. >> she also said i don't think there are any giant plot twists coming. what do you read into that, knowing what we know so far about the case, what potential charges do you think are applicable here for any of the more than a dozen recommended for indictments? >> there are a number of charges that the grand jury was asked to look into, and notwithstanding the fact, number six, i think what we'll see is the grand jury not necessarily detailing in narrative form what they learned happened, but just simply providing a lengthy list of potential charges and who they recommend indictments for. and it could be everything from election-related crimes to, for

example, recommendations of specific perjury charges or even rico charges. perjury is what we call a predicate crime in the racketeering statute. it's one of the underlying crimes that could be a part a of a pattern of this enterprise that was brought together informally to orchestrate this crime. i think it's really anyone's guess what these crimes are. certainly there are folks like with the brookings institution and elsewhere that have gone through the litany of potential crimes here. i don't think emily cors gave that away. >> what happens next? we wait to see what the d.a. does? >> the d.a. has a grand jury that meets twice a week. it is a regular grand jury. she does not have to wait for a new grand jury to begin presenting evidence in service of an indictment, and she doesn't have to start all over again. the report and the evidence collected during the special grand jury's investigation can be sort of summed up for a regular grand jury here.

i think fani willis told the paper last week that her indictments are imminent. having a lot of people in the press sort of scratch their heads. i would estimate that we'll probably know more in the next month or so or maybe even potentially sooner, lindsey. >> blaine alexander, lisa rubin, thank you both. the defense continues to build its case in the double murder trial of alex murdaugh. they hope to wrap up their case by the end of this week. this comes a day after murdaugh's surviving son buster took the stand. catie beck is in walterboro, south carolina, with more on what's happening inside the courtroom. talk to me about the mood if there was any shift with what buster said and also what new we've learned since then. >> reporter: e yeah, buster took the stand, this is the first time he has spoken about the death of his mother and younger brother publicly. i think generally there was an expectation that it would be more emotional, that there would

be sort of an outpouring of defensive love and support for his dad. we certainly did not see that on the stand yesterday. buster did talk about the fact that his father was devastated and heartbroken in the wake of these murders. he also talked to defense attorneys that it was not uncommon that his father would have changed clothes in between the videos we see of him on the property that night and when police investigators arrived. he said, look, it was june. he was working on that property. it was hot, it was not uncommon for him to shower and change his clothes. he also talked about some of the habits on that working property, which included leaving guns about. he said they didn't always make their way back to the gun room, back to the closet. sort of poking some holes in things that prosecutors had highlighted as important evidence. but overall pretty stoic on the stand. didn't cry, didn't express a ton of emotion, which i think was the larger expectation. the other witness yesterday, a forensic engineer was going into great detail about his theories

on the trajectory of the bullets, the height of the shooter. i think the big moment on his testimony saying that he did not think someone as tall as alex murdaugh could have fired those shots from that angle. the cross examination of that witness was a little tough. prosecutors certainly attacking his credibility. here's some of what he said on the stand about those bullets and how they were fired. >> 3 feet 5.5 inches, is that right? >> that is correct. >> you're saying that two 5'2", which we can all guess approximates what size of individual or age of individuals, that's your best guess that night? >> it could be one person moving slightly there. but that is not a guess. that is my opinion. >> reporter: now, this morning so far we are hearing witness

testimony from a partner in alex murdaugh's law firm who showed up on the night of the murders and describes a great deal of people walking through the crime scene, a lot of steps missed in collecting bullets, in allowing things to be put away and cleaned up before any investigating had been done. so we are hearing from that witness now. we expect more of that as we go throughout the afternoon. >> catie beck, thank you. coming up, is another republican about to jump into presidential race? we're live from des moines with more on senator tim scott's iowa swing. plus, more than 100 kids illegally employed across eight states by one of the largest food sanitation companies in the country. the details from a federal investigation ahead. a federal investigation ahead. an arch. and homemade barbeque sauce. they're called 'small businesses.' but to the people who build them there's nothing 'small' about them. that's why at t-mobile for business... you'll save more than $1,000 versus verizon.

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launching a 2024 run for the presidency. this visit comes as nikki haley, donald trump, mike pence, and ron desantis have already or will be visiting the midwest in the coming days as the 2024 election season kicks off. joining me now from des moines is nbc news washington correspondent yamiche alcindor. what are voters in iowa saying about this growing gop field? >> reporter: well, as you said, i'm starting my morning here at a diner in des moines, iowa. this is an all important state for republicans. it is the state that's going to be voting first in the republican presidential nomination. we should remind folks there are a number of people who have already swinged by here. we've seen likely contenders, nikki haley has been here. we've also seen former vice president mike pence come through here. we have not seen former president donald trump, who was the first republican to jump into this race. we're going to be following today tim scott who's speaking

at drake university and then speaking at an annual republican dinner. going back to donald trump, it's interesting. they say at least one voter told me that they're worried possibly that if donald trump is at the top of this ticket and he's in the general election that it could hurt the gop. we also talked to some voters who say they want to see maybe a more moderate candidate, maybe someone like respirator governor, former republican governor larry hogan who right now has not yet officially said he's going to run for president. take a listen to what voters have been telling us. >> he's done a good job with the country, but people don't like him for his arrogance. i think if he runs, i think it will hurt the party. >> the governor of maryland, hogan, is someone that appears to be a very reasonable person, so that would be one that i would seriously consider. >> reporter: so there you heard it, at least one voter telling us that they think former

president donald trump might hurt the party in the general election. but my producer here julia jester and i have been talking to folks, and they say while they may be a little uncomfortable with donald trump, they haven't really come up with another name that they feel is strong enough to be the person who could beat him. we're here following tim scott who has not officially said he's running for president. it tells you that this electorate whale they're wavering on the trump name has not moved on completely. i also think we have to think about the dynamics of this race. it's about race and the legacy of slavery being taught in schools, transgender rights. you also hear some republicans talking about the economy and open borders. it will be interesting how tim scott talks to these voters and how these likely contenders talk to voters. >> yamiche alcindor, thank you. history was made in virginia's special election, democrat jennifer mcclellan won the race for the state's fourth congressional district, making her the first black woman elected to represent virginia in

congress. mcclellan defeated leon benjamin winning 74% of the vote and will fill the seat of late congressman don mceachin. last night president biden called from overseas to congratulate her on her win. coming up, a major sanitation company accused of illegally employing more than 100 children. what one former manager at a nebraska meat packing plant tells nbc news next. >> did you ever see kids, people who looked like kids working inside these plants? >> yeah. >> how young do you think they were? >> probably as young as 12.

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conditions in slaughterhouses. nbc's julia ainsley joins me now for more on this investigation. julia, you spoke with a former employee of one of these facilities, what did they say? >> that's right. we spoke to several former employees and one sat down with us, but asked to conceal their identity. this employee said that for years there were incidents and sometimes very widely known incidents where children were hired. we also reviewed a document that definitely substantiated that claim. we also traveled to grand island, nebraska, that was the site of the first labor department warrant that was served in this case that led to more than 100 children being found cleaning slaughterhouses and meatpacking plants across the country. here's what we learned. >> reporter: alarming accusations about what happened inside this nebraska meatpacking plant. migrant children like this boy, who federal investigators say was put to work in a job that can be incredibly dangerous.

can anybody mistake these children for adults? >> i don't think there's any mistaking these children for adults. >> reporter: investigators say the child workers arrived for their shift at night, many of them from central america. they were employed by cleaning company packer sanitation services, inc. to sanitize equipment inside the plant. pssi has 17,000 workers. of those, investigators say the company employed more than 100 children aged 13 to 17 in 13 plants across 8 states. last october, labor investigators say they found nearly two dozen children, some as young as 13, working here inside this massive slaughterhouse, cleaning up blood and animal parts in the overnight shift. nebraska immigrant advocate audrey lutz has been helping some of the child workers from guatemala, who she says are scared to talk to us. >> i think these youth are afraid because they don't know the systems in this country that were meant to protect them,

because those systems failed. >> reporter: we spoke to a former pssi manager, who asked that we conceal their identity. did you ever see kids, people who looked like kids, working inside these plants? >> yeah. >> how young do you think they were? >> probably as young as 12. >> how did that strike you when you saw someone that young working a job like this? >> it kind of makes you sick. you walk through the plant, you can't walk through it without getting animal parts on you or blood all over you. >> reporter: the company disciplined an employee in 2021 according to an internal pssi report reviewed by nbc news. the employee who handled hiring for multiple plants was found to have hired the same known minor two separate times in the span of six months under two different names. the punishment according to the document, a demotion and a hiring policy review. were managers ever worried that they'd be disciplined for hiring children? >> no. >> reporter: the former manager

says the more common outcome was to hold the frontline worker accountable. >> you would just terminate the child, terminate the undocumented worker. >> reporter: in december, the company signed a consent decree saying they would abide by child labor laws. pssi telling nbc news, our company has a strong corporate commitment to our zero-tolerance policy against employing anyone under the age of 18 and fully shares the labor department's objective of ensuring full compliance at all locations, and says they are taking steps to prevent individuals at the local level from circumventing our wide-ranging procedures. shannon rebolledo was the lead investigator for the labor department. how is this investigation different from what you've seen before? >> i've never seen child labor violations to this extent. just the sheer number of kids that were working, i've never had an employer or their representative impede my investigation like this just so brazenly.

>> so pssi says it was fully cooperative with the labor department's investigation, but meanwhile, we learned from dhs officials that they are still conducting an investigation to figure out how these children ended up in these meatpacking plants and in these towns in the first place. as we said, there are many of them, most of them are migrant children, so they're investigating for possible human trafficking. though it is clear that the company is not a target of that investigation. >> julia ainsley, thank you for staying on top of that reporting. that does it for me this busy hour. i'll be back at 10:00 a.m. eastern tomorrow. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage next. diaz-balart pick coverage next.

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