bit. in particular, selling things like the infrastructure bill, the inflation reduction act. voters will see the aftereffects, the ramifications of those bills in the ones ahead, even as this current congress won't give much with republicans in charge of the house. white house reporter for "politico," thank you for being up with us. thank you for getting up with us "way too early." "morning joe" starts right now. did the grand jury recommend an indictment of former president trump? >> i'm not going to speak on exact indictments. >> nothing that would surprise people who have been following this? >> probably not. >> i had no idea a 12-year-old amish girl could even serve. i guess she did. >> oh, my goodness. >> wow. >> as the woman on the jury goes

rogue, we'll explain how it may complicate things for the d.a. what a nightmare. >> come on. >> literally. >> wow. president joe biden is back at the white house this morning following his momentous, three-day trip to eastern europe. before he left, the president took time once again to reassure allies that america will not tolerate russian aggression into nato territory. we'll also play for you president biden's comments on vladimir putin's decision to pull out of a nuclear arms treaty with the u.s., and we'll show you how former president trump turned his trip to east palestine, ohio, into a branding operative. >> well -- >> he didn't throw paper towels, did he? >> not paper towels. he brought trump-branded water bottles. >> did he throw it? >> i don't know.

pallets of trump-branded water. >> it's just tap water, guys. so fascinating week. i've got to say, historic. people are going to remember, an american president going into a war zone, risking his life to show support for the people of kyiv and for democracy in the west. >> absolutely. the visit through kyiv, through the streets of kyiv just less than a year after the war began, a year after vladimir putin thought he'd be walking through the streets of kyiv. then that speech will be remembered, as well. it's standing in front of that castle in warsaw with flags from the united states waving in the middle of eastern europe at this moment in history. truly extraordinary speech. frankly, a lot of republicans have said the same about the president's visit. the usual suspects have been criticizing him, of course, but if you are an american, and a lot of republicans are saying this -- this isn't just me saying it -- it was a proud moment for democracy.

it was a proud moment for freedom. >> and we're hearing, mika, from some areas that are usually critical of joe biden, just that response. including some people at fox news questioning why any republicans would be attacking the president of the united states. the american president, by the way. the american president fighting for freedom, defending western democracy. defending the values that, oh, my gosh, so many were criticizing him now used to claim to support. >> absolutely. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, of course. and former white house press secretary, now an msnbc host, jen psaki. her new show, "inside with jen psaki" debuts sunday, march 19th. very excited for that. >> great. >> jen, so awesome. >> that is. >> thank you. >> as president biden returns home from europe, there is new

polling that is showing support for his possible re-election bid. the numbers are changing a little bit, joe. >> they're changing a lot. the latest survey, half of democrats and democrats-leaning independents say their party has a better chance of winning the white house in 2024 with biden at the top of the ticket. 45% say they should give another candidate a chance. they'll get a better chance. look at november, willie, those numbers, it jumped up from 38% to 50%. again, this poll right now is just a snapshot. it doesn't mean a whole lot. if joe biden decides he wants to run for re-election, he's going to run for re-election. democrats would be stupid to run against him, unless something changes dramatically. again, joe biden is a guy who is constantly underestimated throughout his entire political career. constantly underestimated during the political campaign in 2020. mocked, ridiculed and abused by the right and the progressive

left. constantly underestimated even over the past two years. we keep hearing -- you know, we quietly hear whispers, "oh, somebody has to run instead of biden." then the midterms come. oh, okay, well, we agree. then it's like, a week later, you know, he is too old. somebody has to run instead of biden. he won't be up to it. then he does the state of the union. okay, we're fine. two nights later, the bedwetting begins again from people in the democratic party. oh, we can't. suddenly, the guy is showing up on a secret trip to kyiv after taking a ten-hour train ride in, where he could have very easily been killed by enemy troops as he went through the war zone. now, people are like, well, you know, maybe. >> walking the streets of kyiv. >> maybe this guy that did 20 hours of train rides that i will

guarantee you donald trump would have never had the you-know of what to do, and all the guys criticizing joe biden on the far right in their suspenders would never have the never to do what he did. he did it. he went to kyiv. he sent a strong message, not only to ukraine, but to the entire world about what america, not what democrats, not what joe biden, but what america thinks of democracy and how we're behind ukraine. it's a strong message. i think you're going to start seeing it in the polls more, especially among democrats. they're like, yeah, okay, yeah, this guy that went into a war zone in a way that no other president did since abraham lincoln in the civil war, yeah, maybe he's up to running for re-election. >> yeah. here's something interesting, joe. that poll was taken before the events of the last four days. that doesn't even factor in for democrats thinking about whether joe biden should run again, the

trip into the war zone. the speech on tuesday. the meeting yesterday. he's back home now. jen psaki, i think if you look at the timeline of the leap from november until now, november was a time of great concern. i mean, there was nashing of teeth and everything else. you'll lose the senate. house was going to go by a huge margin, losing the country, basically, to republicans. it didn't go that way. the specter of donald trump getting into the race becomes more and more real, and democrats go, oh, that's right, joe biden is the guy who has already beaten him. maybe he is the right guy the run again. >> that's right, willie. when you're in a white house, and months like this, back to november, where you're kind of bracing for impact and waiting for this terrible outcome in november, i mean, even they, i think, were surprised in some ways by how well the democrats did, given what the expectations were in november. but for months, they have been waiting inside the white house for something to break in the polls their way, right?

i mean, there were great bills passed, historic bills on climate change, rebuilding roads. nothing seemed to move. there was, obviously, an election that went better than expected. nothing seemed to move. the good thing for them, and really for joe biden as he looks to likely run in the next years, is that he was born with a good, healthy chip on his shoulder, because he's always been underestimated. and because of that, it means he always feels like he has something to prove. that's what you kind of need. i mean, that's what motivates him to give, frankly, a state of the union address that would have made me tired because it was almost an hour and a half. and to do sit on a train for ten hours. i think some of it is also that, that intangible. like, this guy actually does have energy. oh, also, he has experience. we'll see how that plays out in the polls in the weeks ahead. but they've been waiting for something to break, i know, for a couple months now. it looks like something finally is. >> well, you know -- >> it has. >> -- jonathan lemire, i'm glad

that jen brought up being underestimated. reminds me of another president, there are parallels here. the man who talked about being misunderestimated. i'm talking about george w. bush, 43. democrats can't believe they lost to him two times. can't believe it. yet, he's a guy that they underestimated. we've talked about reagan. newt gingrich writing after the midterms that biden is another reagan. he is another ike. people don't remember, but, you know, democrats made fun of ike as being this sort of simple, dumb soldier who, you know, golfed all day. ike was always underestimated while he was quietly, you know, the guy who helped us win world war ii. it sounds crazy, but that's what some people thought about him. the guy was figuring out how to run government to his advantage. you've seen this from the beginning. you've seen biden underestimated from the beginning.

you've seen for a year, year and a half, even progressives saying, why are you trying to work with the republicans? you're never going to pass bipartisan legislation. you're being naive. it is not 1974, old man. you can't work with the republicans. we get to the end of this session, and joe biden has more bipartisan legislation passed than anybody, my god, maybe you have to go back to fdr or back to lbj. it is extraordinary. then you do have to go back to fdr if you want to look at the things he accomplished in the midterm. for a president in his first midterm election, he'd done things no president had done since fdr. >> white house aides point to the record and say, it speaks for itself. this is a president who took office just two weeks after an insurrection at the citadel of democracy. it was at the height of the pandemic with economic turmoil. he's steaied the ship not just on those fronts, he's passed the

most legislation since lbj in his first two years. he's also held together a global alliance backing ukraine in its trying to repel an invasion from its much larger neighbor. and, yeah, they understand there's going to be speculation about president biden. he is 80 years old. he has not yet announced that he is running for president again. there are some democrats who are taking steps to create a plan b, just in case. most believe he will. he will go into this next race in a far stronger position than most would have anticipated, particularly coming off of last november's successful midterms for the democrats. they think they like the contrast between this and the republican field. joe, we should also note, the same polling that suggests democrats are warming to the idea of another biden run, there are far fewer republicans who want another trump run, who think that trump would be -- >> wait, wait. >> -- the best chance to win in

'24. >> more democrats want joe biden to run for president than republicans want donald trump to run for president. >> that is what the new poll suggests. >> fascinating. >> more democrats and democrat-leaning independents back biden than republicans and republican-leaning independents. >> thanks, ron desantis. >> i think he is responsible for this. can't get the miami airport done, but he is responsible here. >> don't do that. >> yeah. >> let's not even start. >> you started me up, now i'm going to keep going with it. >> no, no, no. >> okay. before president biden traveled back to the white house, he concluded his historic european trip meeting with lead ers from the eastern flank of nato, countries who formed an alliance after russia annexed crimea in 2014. president biden said the united states would defend any nato ally if putin pressed his

military campaign beyond ukraine. >> as nato's eastern flank, you're the front lines of our collective defense. you know better than anyone what's at stake in this conflict. not just for ukraine but for the freedom of democracies throughout europe and around the world. article five is a sacred commitment the united states has made. we will defend literally every inch of nato. every inch of nato. >> you know, jen, we just have to stop right there for a second. >> okay. >> you actually had ron desantis coming out the other day going, oh, vladimir putin doesn't pose any risk at all. >> oh, hmm. >> to any nato countries. those nine countries have lived in mortal fear of vladimir putin doing to them the same, exact thing that he did to ukraine. i wouldn't -- we don't have to even ask what the leaders of

estonia, of latvia, of lithuania, of poland, of those other countries on the border of russia or close to russia, we don't have to ask the fear that they literally live in every day. the leader of estonia, by the way, her family was hauled off. her mother was hauled off to prison camps in russia, relocated, i think when her mom was like 6 years old. so the idea that some guy, some ivy league boy who goes to ivy league schools can sit, like, in the sunshine state and go, "oh, vladimir putin doesn't pose any risk to the -- to estonia or latvia," that has to be just dumbfounding to people who have lived in the shadow of vladimir putin's imperialistic designs

for decades. >> yeah. >> no doubt. i mean, joe, hearing that, those comments from governor desantis, i was thinking, wow, what if he answered five more questions on this, what would he exactly say? i mean, the thing that -- as much as a lot of -- many republicans think he is their next great hope, and maybe he is in some ways, it wasn't a particularly sophisticated answer. and it was not -- it was very out of whack with what we've just seen happen over the last year. what's true, i mean, the b-9 mika was referencing, a year and a half ago, we had a weekly meeting with the national security team and press team. jake sullivan said, i talked to the president about doing a call with the b-9. others would say, who is the b-9? he'd say, these are the countries on the front lines. it is poland, of course, but it is estonia, latvia, all these countries literally near the border of russia. they are pivotal in our

diplomatic engagement. >> absolutely. >> president biden, you know, he has been working on these issues, national security issues, for decades. he knew early then that it wasn't just having conversations with france. very important. and the united kingdom. it was also about making sure these b-9 countries, these countries on the front lines, were a pivotal part of that. that's what a sophisticated, experienced approach to this looks like. >> 100%. >> ron desantis, every one of those countries have people inside those countries who lived under russian tyranny, who live with russian troops dominating their every day, who lived with kgb agents going through their country, who live with the fear of that happening again, again in their lifetime. 1989 wasn't that long ago. >> no. >> it was just a really ignorant statement. i hope people that want him to win take him to the side and

actually prepare him better for answering foreign policy questions. >> well -- >> that was just an ignorant answer. >> unfortunately, understanding these issues takes years. it is not something you can be read in on. i think it's safe to say that i don't think enough people understand the importance of having somebody with decades of experience on foreign policy issues at the front of something like this. >> yeah. you know, it is very easy to attack mickey mouse. it is very easy to try to take -- >> books out of schools. >> -- books out of schools or -- >> talking about the future and safety of the world. >> -- take money from baseball teams. you've got to be -- it's not quite so easy figuring out how to deal with russian aggression. so, again, needs to be careful before he speaks out. >> president biden also commented on russia suspending its involvement in a nuclear arms control treaty with the united states. here's what he said in an interview with abc news

yesterday. >> big mistake to do that. not very responsible. i think we're less safe when we walk away from arms control agreements that are very much in both party's interest and the world's interest. but i have not seen, we have not seen anything where there is a change in his posture, what they're doing, the idea that, somehow, this means they're thinking of using nuclear weapons, international continental ballistic missiles. there's no evidence of that. >> joining us from moscow, chief international correspondent keir simmons. keir, let's put this week in total. when you look at the president's visit to kyiv, you look at his speech in warsaw, you look at the meeting with the bucharest 9 yesterday with the president of the united states, president putin's speech a couple days ago, how is it all landing in the capital where you're standing today? >> reporter: well, willie, you did have another stunning split-screen yesterday, didn't you, with president biden standing with the bucharest 9 at

the same time as president putin here in moscow was standing on a stage at another rally with russian fans, you could call them, supporters anyway, waving russian flags. telling them that if we are united, we have no equal. certainly, it has been a week of incredible images. we really got into sharp focus, i think, this battle, frankly, between two men, president biden and president putin. what we have had this morning, willie, is president putin, after that announcement that he would suspend russia's involvement in the new s.t.a.r.t. treaty, saying we will pay increased attention to strengthening our nuclear capabilities on land, sea and air. more nuclear saber rattling. i will say about that, i think when it comes to that nuclear announcement by president putin, if you look back to last year,

president putin argued that the inspections couldn't work because of u.s. sanctions. russians couldn't inspect in the u.s. because of u.s. sanctions. i think that gives you a glimmer of what the russians think they're trying to do here, what president putinthinks he is trying to do. i think he is trying to set up an argument to say, well, we'll come back to your nuclear agreement if you drop sanctions. now, frankly, it's unlikely to work, plainly, and we're talking about sometime in the future. but what it does tell you is that despite all of the rhetoric and the fears of escalation, which are real, there is still this part of president putin who is trying to figure out how to get from a to b now. how to negotiate at some point in the future. again, and i've said it this week, willie, i do think that we've stopped talking about an off-ramp, for good reason, and president biden is being very

clear that this is an idealogical battle that has to be won, in his view, and that the ukrainians have to decide that. but, at some point, there is going to need to be a conversation again about where do we go from here? can there be a cease-fire? would it only be an armithis, or can they win? >> keir simmons in moscow, thanks so much. we appreciate it. mika, russia will be conducting joint military exercises tomorrow on the one-year anniversary of the war with china in south africa. china's top diplomat was in moscow yesterday, as well. >> wow. a lot going on. we have a programming note for you. tonight at 8:00 p.m., joe hosts a special primetime hour -- >> not usually up at 8:00 p.m. >> i know but this is important. special primetime hour marking the one-year date since the

russian invasion of ukraine. the special hour features joe's sit-down interviews with secretary of state antony blinken, defense secretary lloyd austin, joint chiefs chairman mark milley and national security adviser jake sullivan. plus, front line reporting from richard engel and clint watts at the maps, at the big board, and analysis from top foreign policy experts. the special hour premieres tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. that'll be an important hour for everyone to get completely updated on the state of the war, the state of the world. still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump visits the site of the ohio train derailment and criticizes president biden for not doing the same. but he did get fact-checked by a surprising source. we'll show you that. plus, ivanka trump and jared kushner get subpoenaed by the special counsel investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election. what that new development could mean for the former president.

also ahead, israel has launched air strikes on gaza after a deadly raid sparked a series of rocket attacks. we'll get a live report on the escalating violence. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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lomita feed is 101 years old this year and counting. i'm bill lockwood, current caretaker and owner. when covid hit, we had some challenges like a lot of businesses did. i heard about the payroll tax refund, it allowed us to keep the amount of people that we needed and the people that have been here taking care of us. see if your business may qualify. go to getrefunds.com. a developing story out of the middle east. jets are conducting air strikes at targets in gaza in response to six rockets fired into israel overnight. joining us from tel-aviv is raf sanchez. raf, this happened after an israeli raid in the west bank

yesterday that left 11 palestinians dead. >> reporter: that's right, willie. israeli forces storming into the center of the city of nablis in the occupied west bank yesterday. an unusual raid happening in broad daylight. you saw the israeli special forces confronted by angry crowds hauling rocks and they say they surrounded terrorists in a house. when they refused to surrender, israeli forces used a rocket to destroy the building. as you said, 11 palestinians killed in total, militants and civilians. hundreds, more than 100, rather, wounded according to the palestinian health ministry. among the dead, three elderly civilian men. willie, there is just a heartbreaking video making the rounds on palestinian social

media this morning, showing a nurse in one of the hospitas who just pronounced one of the elderly men dead, and then he realizes the body lying on the operating table in front of him is his own father. now, the biden administration is calling for calm. willie, when you speak to u.s. officials, there is no real plan here to fundamentally try to shift the status quo, to try to restart peace talks that have been going nowhere for years now. instead, there is a hope that things can just quiet down. but the major fear among the biden administration is, at this point, there really are no cooler heads who can prevail on either side. you are seeing the palestinian authority which has absolutely lost credibility with the palestinian people, now really losing security control in the northern west bank, in the cities like naplis. they're unable or unwilling to stop these palestinian militant

attacks on israel. on the israeli side, you have this new government led by prime minister benjamin netanyahu, the most right wing in israel's history, and they are showing absolutely no interest in de-escalation. quite the opposite. just the last week or so, they have retroactively approved a number of israeli settlements in the occupied west bank that were considered illegal even under israel's own law. that is in open defiance of the biden administration and the u.s. joining a number of other countries at the u.n. to condemn that settlement expansion. >> if history is any guide, it only escalates from here. raf sanchez in tel-aviv, thanks so much. coming up next, congresswoman marjorie taylor greene made headlines this week for pushing what she called a national divorce of red and blue states. we'll explain why her proposal would be a terrible deal for those deep red states. steve rattner has charts on that. later, we will dig into another report that gives a candid assessment of why

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we're bringing thousands of bottled water, trump water, actually, most of it. some of it we had to go to a much lesser quality water. you want to get those trump bottles, i think, more than anybody else. we're bringing a lot of water, thousands of bottles. we have some on trucks. we brought some on my plane today. to thatpleased to announce we helped coordinate the delivery of the water and bottled water as well as the tractor trailers full of water.

i think you'll have plenty of water for a long time maybe. >> the guy is so gross. he really is. talking about trump water, branded trump water. by the way, he's such a hypocrite, too, talking about attacking joe biden while joe biden is going, you know, risking his life fighting for western democracy, something he doesn't give a damn about. the guy who talks about suspending the constitution. it's just absolutely insane. >> that was -- >> by the way, where was that guy when there were disasters, when there were train disasters when he was president of the united states. >> exactly. >> i never saw him out. >> no. >> i never saw him out. where was he? why did he decide to go here? >> he did throw paper towels at people at one point. former president donald trump bringing trump water with him on a visit to east palestine, ohio, yesterday. that's where the norfolk southern train derailed and spilled toxic chemicals. trump spent his time criticizing

president biden's handling of the crisis and said he had a stronger working relationship with fema when he was in power. trump also claimed, without evidence, that the biden administration only directed more resources to east palestine because trump announced that he's -- >> just a lie. >> -- visiting the area. >> just a liar. >> fema said, specifically, this doesn't meet the criteria, and that's horrible. somebody has to do something for those people. i said back, when i announced that i was coming, they changed their tune. it was an amazing phenomenon. >> hmm, transportation secretary pete butigieg is set to visit east palestine today, his first trip since the derailment happened three weeks ago. buttigieg has received a lot of criticism for his handling of the disaster. his spokesperson says he wanted to visit -- he waited to visit

so it would not detract from emergency response efforts. while trump was criticizing president biden and transportation secretary pete buttigieg for not visiting east palestine yet, fox news had this fact check last night. take a look. >> there is this political moment, and there's been a lot of criticism of the transportation secretary. "politico" pointing out that buttigieg, secretary buttigieg will visit there, ohio crash, tomorrow. quote, he's also expected to meet with d.o.t. officials who arrived on the ground within hours of the derailment. they point out, it is exceedingly rare for a transportation secretary to visit the site of a train derailment, especially one that resulted in no fatalities. the reason they're pointing that out, it's fair, that's accurate. there were train derailments in the trump administration that actually had fatalities that didn't have a visit by transportation secretary. >> the key thing always is, what, if anything, is the administration obliged to do when something like this

happens? visits by officials are nice, but they are political gestures. i don't think the administration's policy and actions toured east palestine would be any different if more officials had gone there. the president is overseas. i completely reject the parallel that has been drawn between his going to ukraine and not going, so far at least, to east palestine. let's remember this about these issues. the federal government preeminently has a responsibility for our national defense. now, he may ultimately go to east palestine, and pete buttigieg probably would have done himself some good by going out there, might have made people feel better. substantively, it doesn't make much difference. >> you know, it's a very good point. willie, the president of the united states, the commander in chief, his preeminent responsibility constitutionally, you know, is to protect this

country. protect the country as commander in chief. you can do two things at once. as brett also said, just because officials show up to get their pictures taken doesn't really mean anything. the question is, what policies are being put in place? now, listen, could pete buttigieg and other officials in the biden administration gone there sooner? yeah, even pete buttigieg says he could have gone there sooner. should have gone there sooner. a lot of them should have gone there sooner. it is just idiocy to be attacking a president of the united states for risking his life, going into a war zone to send a strong message, pushing back against russian tyranny. i just -- i mean, hell, do we go back and look at every time ronald reagan was going across the world to push back against communism, to see what disaster was going on in america and

criticize him? i didn't hear republicans do that. >> this is where reactionary partisanship lands you. whatever the president is doing, i have to find some way to criticize it, even if i know it is an objectively good thing for the president to have shown his face inside of kyiv and to make that speech this week. i've got to find some way to criticize him. i guess it shouldn't come as a surprise that donald trump and some of the members of the republican party are conducting themselves this way. but brett understands the importance of biden's visit, jen psaki, to eastern europe and ukraine, and i suspect, and you'd understand the inner workings more than anyone on the panel, the president may make a visit, in a case like this, to east palestine, he'd send a cabinet official first. perhaps buttigieg should have been there sooner. but the president will go to ohio, as well. >> typically there is an order

of events. it may have been too early for him to go before the trip. cabinets should have gone earlier. would have been better optically if buttigieg went earlier. i believe the epa operator has been there and fema. it was a little bit of a case study yesterday of what the white house will do and how they'll handle it when trump attacks biden. they don't want to elevate trump. they don't even know for sure he'll be the nominee, though i bet at this point he will be. what they did yesterday was kind of interesting. they didn't just ignore it. they punched back substantively, which that may not make a difference in the ohio coverage of trump's visit, but they basically made the case that the trump administration, they pushed for deregulation that made it so that faster breaks were not in place. the republicans in the house supported defunding cleanup. so it is a substantive argument,

which is sometimes harder to break through, but it was interesting to see they didn't just sit back and let it happen. they punched back. we'll see how that plays out as trump does this more in the months ahead. >> obviously, willie, there's a lot of work to do in east palestine. i think trump's gesturing with his branding and his water aside, the transportation secretary pete buttigieg did make it clear he should have gone there sooner. let's put a pin on that. he should have gone there sooner, and the white house should have done a better job, even though they are in a major transatlantic moment, dealing with the future of the safety of the world. the people of east palestine need to feel seen and heard, and i think that pete buttigieg is taking it on board that he needs to go there and do that. these are people who, right now, are very uncertain about their health and the future of their town. it is definitely a little bit of a bump for the white house to

not make sure they shined a big light on what was happening there and, hopefully, in the days and weeks to come, they'll be able to do that. because it is frightening for those people to see dead fish in the rivers and to not be able to run water. >> yeah. >> i mean, whether the epa testing is coming back clean or not, i mean, i covered 9/11. i covered the air after 9/11 and all the different things that happened down the road because of the air coming out of the pit. you don't really know what is happening in east palestine. you don't really understand what's happening, and you won't for a long time. >> we won't for some time. >> no, i mean, there's no question about it. these assurances, i probably feel a little hollow to the people who live there and send children back to the houses and play in those yards and drink all that water. jonathan lemire, jen is right, the epa has been there. the epa administrator has been there several days on the ground. but it sends a signal of the importance of it if you send

someone like secretary buttigieg, perhaps the president down the road, that, yes, we are focused on this and will be here for the long haul. >> buttigieg going today now at last. as noted, they acknowledge he should have been there sooner. no presidential trip scheduled yet to ohio. that certainly could change, whether the president or vice president go in a week or two is certainly possible. i think that white house aides signalled to me yesterday they recognize, this is the story line that's not going away. there will be, to mika's point, ill health effects in the months and weeks ahead and maybe the year as and weeks ahead and maybe the year ahead. the white house needs to show they'll set up mechanisms and safety to show that people in ohio and across the border in pennsylvania receive the monitoring they need in the years ahead. >> we'll get back to this later on in the show. marjorie taylor greene made headlines earlier this week,

calling for republican states to succeed from the union. her proposal was on twitter, writing, the u.s. should be separated by red and blue states because of, quote, woke issues. steve rattner is here with charts showing why a national divorce would not work out so well for the deep red states. steve, good morning. what do you have for us? >> good morning. first of all, marjorie taylor greene is not alone. there have been a enough of polls. there was one in 2021, that two-thirds of southern republicans wanted to secede from the rest of the country. it won't work out well. if you look how the balance of spending versus taxes goes across the country, you can see on the left side are states carried by joe biden. the green are states in which the state paid more to washington in taxes than it got back in other benefits. the orange colors, and they're shaded depending upon the degree of disparity, are the states where the states got back more from washington than they sent. you can see on the left, a lot

of green on the biden states, nine all together, as a matter of fact. on the right, the trump states, virtually every single state except for utah, don't ask me why utah, got back more from washington than it paid. so it would not really work very well to their advantage to leave. in fact, the top states for getting a better deal from washington are kentucky, mississippi and west virginia. >> yeah. if you look at poverty rates, as well, steve, higher poverty rates correlate, by and large, with some of these red states. >> yeah. you can say, why is this happening? poverty rates plays the major role. first, let's look at what the poverty rates are. the chart on the left graphs the amount -- extent to which a state is a republican state. further to the right is more republican. as you go up the scale, more poverty. you can see with your eye that the red states tend to be above the national average in poverty. the blue states tend to be below the national average in poverty. another way to look at it is

if -- this is by counies but you get to the same place, on the right, how much of the gdp is produced in these places. red counties, 29%. blue counties, 71%. they're suffering more economically, and that does lead to the question of, how does that result in more money going to these states? >> i mean, steve, that's incredible. 71% of america's gdp comes from counties that voted for joe biden. 71%. so, again, this just underlines the fact that it would be devastating for there to be a divide, for those areas that voted for donald trump to want a, quote, you know, separation, a divorce from the united states. i mean, yeah, what do you

think -- well, what other chart -- do you have any other charts we can move along to here? >> yeah, i have one that breaks it town and shows you how that works and why it happens that way. so this chart takes the united states in the center, then the two states on the left that get the best deal, the two states on the right with the worst deal. what you can see is the main driver of that are tax revenues. if a state is poorer, it'll pay less in federal taxes. you can see on the left, kentucky and mississippi, which on average pay 6600 and $5700 a year in taxes. on the right, you can see massachusetts and connecticut which pay far more, almost $15,000 in taxes to washington. they pay a lot more in taxes. then you look at the top of the chart, what do they get back? let's start with the green because it's the most interesting. the green is federal money that they get back for projects, infrastructure projects, military, so forth.

you can see, kentucky all the way on the left. why is it on the left? mitch mcconnell is the republican leader, has been for a long time. you may remember, for example, joe biden going down to the kentucky-ohio border with mitch mcconnell to break a bottle of champagne, whatever they did over the new $1 billion bridge that is being paid for by washington. ft. knox is in kentucky. there's stuff all over kentucky that mitch mcconnell haas has delivered to kentucky. it's an unusual situation. for most of the other states that do better, mississippi, the poorest state in the country, that light blue are programs like medicaid. the dark blue includes programs like food stamps. because they are poor -- pay less -- i shouldn't say it quite that way -- because they pay less and have lower income residents, they get back more in federal benefits toward those programs. >> steve, you've laid out the numbers here. if this hypothetical were to

happen, marjorie taylor greene gets her wish and the states secede, what are the real-world impacts it'd have on those states? >> they'd have huge economic deficits. they wouldn't have money for their projects. they wouldn't have new bridges. they wouldn't have federal installations in their districts. they wouldn't have food stamps. they wouldn't have medicaid to help cushion their residents against extreme poverty. it would be a really tough and stupid economic decision. again, the whole irony of this is you've got republicans who oppose kind of almost every kind of federal spending, who are the biggest beneficiaries of the federal spending that they oppose. >> in summary, a terrible idea for everyone involved. >> and hypocritical. >> let's knock it off. >> terrible idea for everybody in the red states. >> all right. >> steve rattner with the charts, thanks so much. good to see you. coming up, some of the stories making front page papers across the country, including a rare tornado that blew through central new jersey. plus, new calls in congress

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a few minutes before the top of the hour, look at that beautiful shot of washington, d.c., for you this morning. let's take a quick look at the morning papers. the "arkansas democratic gazette" leads with lawmakers advancing a bill that would punish librarians who knowingly allow kids to check out controversial books. the republican-backed legislation passed the senate yesterday. it bars minors from accessing books that depict or describe nudity and sexual conduct.

librarians accused of allowing that to happen risk being taken to court. the legislation now goes to the statehouse. excuse me, curious there in arkansas, what about the internet? anyhow, in pennsylvania, "the republican harold" has a feature on the governor potentially violating his own gift ban order. a non-profit that's received millions of dollars in state money paid for shapiro and his top staff to go to the super bowl. shapiro signed an executive order in january banning his administration from accepting gifts from groups that have a financial relationship with the state. a spokesperson for the governor says the super bowl tickets were not a violation because the organization has a, quote, decades long history with the state and is completely incomparable to a private actor. in new jersey, "the times" leads with a rare february tornado that struck the central part of the state. the national weather service confirms an ef-2 tornado blew

through parts of mercer county tuesday afternoon, winds as powerful as 155 miles per hour. it damaged at least ten homes. no injuries were reported. coming up, one of our next guests serves on the new committee focused on u.s. competition with china. congresswoman mikie sherrill, just back from the munich conference, weighs in on that and more, ahead on "morning joe." joe.

nato's eastern flank, you're on the front lines of our collective defense. you know better than anyone what's at stake in this conflict. not just for ukraine but for the freedom of democracies throughout europe and around the world. article 5 is a sacred commitment the united states has made. we will defend literally every inch of nato, every inch of

nato. >> president joe biden making a closing statement to nato allies in eastern europe as he wrapped up an historic trip that included a visit to kyiv. it comes as there's a bipartisan push to supply ukraine with u.s. fighter jets, a move president biden appeared to reject just a few weeks ago. in a moment, we'll be joined by the u.s. ambassador to ukraine, bridget brink. welcome back co to "morning joe." it is thursday, february 23rd. jonathan lemire and jen psaki are still with us. joining the conversation, msnbc contributor mike barnicle with us. >> yes. >> mike. >> here we go. while president biden finished his trip in europe, china's top diplomat continued his tour of moscow. wang yi met with vladimir putin yesterday. >> what is he doing? this is like going to vegas right now and saying, "hey, you know what? can i bet on the red sox winning the world series? i want to put my money on the

red sox winning the world series." it's in the going to happen. >> one day after putin delivered his national address. >> what is china during? >> during the public portion of the meeting, weapons were not discussed. officials warned china could seek to support russia with weapons in its war on ukraine. instead, putin highlighted their economic partnership. >> because, i mean, really, seriously, you look at russia. a country that had a smaller gdp than texas before the war started. i mean, if he keeps going, it is going to be mississippi. >> yeah. particularly -- >> lowest gdp in america. >> china and russia's trade volume could reach $2 billion this year, up to $185 billion last year. they expressed once again that their relationship is trong, with putin adding that he looks forward to welcoming his friend, chinese president xi jinping to the kremlin soon. >> you know, the thing is,

willie, i can only guess. the chinese, even though they've been acting short-sighted over the past several years, been doing things that have hurt themselves internally and across the world, i can only guess that this is a public, an outward-facing show of support. because they know it's in their best interest for this war to end, for them to be able -- we talked about them trying to cobble back together their relationships with european powers and move beyond this war. make no mistake of it, for a country who is struggling right now as china is, this war makes absolutely no sense to them. >> china may be the key, eventually, to ending this war. but, you're right, what strange timing. on the one-year anniversary of the failed military invasion that has gutted russia economically, brought on sanctions in the world, the condemnation of the west, all these countries where that same guy, wang yi, was in europe, trying to assure european

capitals that china was with them and keep their business relationships alive. on the one-year anniversary, to be in moscow and for china to be conducting military exercises with russia, sending the signal, we stand with russia in this failed war in which war crimes are being conducted. jonathan lemire, when the white house looks at this puzzle, where does china fit into it? >> yeah, it is seemingly a perplexing move. but on the eve of russia's invasion, and every escalation since, u.s. was very forward, very public, out there, about what we know, trying to warn off putin from carrying out his intentions. they're doing so now with china. the rhetoric from secretary of state blinken and others very much has picked up in recent days about, first, they do believe that china has already begun to increase its assistance to moscow in terms of non-lethal support. and they believe that beijing may be on the verge of sending

lethal support, weapons, military equipment to moscow, despite the fact that the war has gone so poorly for russia. as it was put to me, obviously, it depends on whether that happens or how much is sent, but if china were suddenly to go all in here, that would be one of the things that could change the trajectory of this war somewhat. that is why the white house is sounding red alarms, putting a lot of pressure, threatening sanctions. we'll hear from secretary of state blinken at the united nations in the coming days saying explicitly to beijing, don't do this. >> china making a big show this week of saying, we stand with russia. yesterday, we highlighted a small delegation of republican lawmakers who traveled to kyiv this week. congressman mccall of texas, the chair of the house foreign affairs committee, led the group that met with ukrainian president zelenskyy. while there, he told reporters the momentum in washington is shifting towards sending the long-range missiles and fighter jets ukraine has been asking for. the united states ambassador to ukraine, bridget brink, was in the meeting and helped

coordinate other talks between the united states lawmakers and their ukrainian counterparts. ambassador brink joins us now from kyiv. madame ambassador, thank you for joining us today. i want to ask about that meeting. also, to go back to the president's visit to kyiv on monday, walking the streets in these extraordinary images with president zelenskyy, to the extent you can now disclose some of it, how long that's been in the works, how it came together, and what it meant to the people of ukraine. >> thanks so much for having me. it's really great to be here. i can say that just one year ago, russia tried to invade ukraine, subjugate another country. the ukrainian people resisted. under u.s. leadership, we rallied the world in support of ukraine's fight for freedom. i'm so proud of what we have done. having the president visit on monday was a historic chance for our president to be able to show, literally, the people of

ukraine our support in his presence. he had a terrific set of meetings with president zelenskyy and his government and also had a chance to meet with my team here on the ground. we were really proud to be a part of that visit. it was in the planning for quite some time, but a very, very small group of people knew. because, obviously, there were serious security concerns. >> ambassador brink, one year in is where we are with the war with russia. can you indicate to us the feelings in the ukraine, after such massive losses of life, damage to properties, families separated, volunteers -- i don't know how many volunteers you have left to fight this war against russia. can you give us a sense of the feel on the ground, the emotion on the ground going forward into the second year of this dreadful war? >> yeah. well, thank you for that question and for the very accurate description of the

situation here. i can tell you, perhaps from the perspective of a teenage boy who is a survivor of the occupation in kherson in the south. so i had the chance to meet with survivors and hear from them firsthand what they have experienced. this young boy was asked the question, how do you feel one year into this war? how do you feel as a teenage boy in ukraine? he said two things. he said, one, it's been a year of terror, a year of fear and a year that i would like to delete from my life. but he also said it's also a year of pride in ukraine and also in the united states and the world, in supporting ukraine's fright for freedom. i think that sums up the sentiment here. >> madame ambassador, to go further on that very point, we know that, particularly in recent months, the russian offensive has been targeted at civilians. trying to take out the electoral grid, trying to rain missiles

down on apartment buildings that have no military value whatsoever. give us an update on the ground there in terms of things like heat, light, power. in terms of across the country, also the morale there of the ukrainian people. >> well, since october 10th, russia has launched over 20 massive attacks with missiles and drones against ukraine's energy infrastructure, in addition to daily attacks in other parts of the country. those massive attacks have also affected the capital and have put incredible strain on the electrical grid. but thanks a lot to the amazingly creative workers on the grid, as well as to ukraine's air defenders, as well as to our support, they have been able to survive, to keep the grid operating. most of the country, most of this very cold winter, has survived on literally hours of power a day. hours of heat a day.

that is true in kyiv and it's true across the country. it is a remarkably resilient people. they are determined to fight, determined to fight for their freedom. we're going to support them. >> we mentioned chairman mccall leading the delegation to kyiv this week after the president was there, saying, yes, more fighter jets and the weapons that zelenskyy has been asking for should be on the way. there are some voices in the republican party who are saying we need to pull back from ukraine and stop spending money there, but that is a minority position, even in the republican party. mitch mcconnell signalled again and again his support for aid to ukraine. what more is coming to ukraine in your eyes? will there be the jets? will there be the long-range weapons? >> well, i can say that we have provided $30 billion under this administration. with congressional support in security assistance alone to

ukraine. that's provided an unprecedented amount of capabilities to help ukraine on the battlefield. we are continuing to be in very close coordinate with them as to what they need in the next weeks and months ahead. we have increased and changed our provision of assistance to meet that need. i believe we will continue to do that. >> does that include fighter jets? >> all these things are under discussion in terms of capability. also, in terms of actual military objective. so we are committed to supporting ukraine in its fight to defend its borders, and we will continue to do that. >> u.s. ambassador to ukraine, bridget brink, nearing tend of an extraordinary week there. thank you for your time. we appreciate it. >> thank you so much for having me. >> mika. >> thank you, madame ambassador. >> you know, it is very interesting. the question is coming up, mike barnicle, about the f-16s. you hear sort of an increased

momentum inside congress for that. it's also something you're starting to hear, not from the top leaders, but you're starting to hear a lot more talk around the pentagon about the need for f-16s. there's a real momentum behind that. i think you look at what's happened with certain weapon sis systems. it took a while to move. tanks and now f-16s. i've got to say, if china decides to start sending military equipment into this war zone, vladimir putin isn't going to know what hit him coming from the west. >> i don't think there's any doubt about that, joe. the problem with the f-16s is they could get there tomorrow and it'd be a minimum of six or seven months training for the potential pilots from the ukraine to fly those planes. i mean, the war, i think, is about to change. we'll find out more about that. you probably know more about it, and it'll be on your special

after interviewing general milley and secretary of defense. it'll be a mobile war coming up. as the ground clears and tanks start to move in the south. i think one of the things that is still underrated in terms of the way this war is being waged was what occurred with the president of the united states. i mean, he's 80 years old. he knows how old he is, and, yet, it is written so often here in america in a negative sense. this man left the white house at 4:00 in the morning, flew to germany, then to poland, then, as you eluded to earlier today, took that ten-hour historic train trip. a train trip out of history to kyiv, where he walked the streets of a city and a country still in a battle zone. each and every day, each hour of every day. and he did it bringing together nato foreign ministers later in a meeting. he did it with his personality,

his humility, his sense of who he is. he is a welcoming individual, and that had an enormous impact over there. it has an enormous impact on the future conduct of this war because he is the president of the united states, and he arrived with all the power and the prestige of the united states and brought it right down to sidewalk level in kyiv. >> incredible. >> critically important message to send to ukraine, to russia, to the nato alliance and to the world, about a president who is willing to risk his life in the cause of freedom. again, as we've said, a trip that's unlike any trip that any president has made to a war zone since abraham lincoln in the civil war. also, underlining what willie said, mika, let's salute chairman mccall and those other republicans who did the same thing the next day. >> yes. >> and went in there saying, we

think you need more weapons. >> yeah. >> that is, again, a great message from the republican leader in the house. there are hostile voices saying we get out of ukraine and stop helping. >> this was a demonstration of bipartisan unity, on how important this is. >> it was. >> editor in chief of "the economist" joins us. the cover story of the new issue is on the future of ukraine. you say the issue lays out why we need to move beyond simply ukraine must win. explain what you mean. you have four articles, and they go over how ukraine is becoming westernized, in a way. also, there is a struggle in the west to forge a new arsenal of democracy. explain. >> first of all, i agree with the symbolism of the president

of the united states going there yesterday. it was an incredibly powerful gesture. what we were arguing in this special section to mark the one-year anniversary, the western electorates and western politicians need to be prepared for what it means to really support ukraine. this is not a war that is going to be over in any meaningful sense any time soon. it is clear, if you listen to vladimir putin again when he gave the rambling speech just the over day, he sees this as an existential struggle against the west. for as long as he is in the kremlin, or, indeed, anyone who might succeed him, for as long as russia has these imperialist ambitions, it needs to be stopped. so what that means is, first of all, ukraine needs the weaponry and support to push back the russians. ideally, of course, to the 1991 borders, to reclaim all its territory. secondly, it needs to have the military capability to defend itself thereafter. that means weapons for a long time. it means a security guarantee, a meaningful security guarantee.

now, there are some people who say -- many politicians, actually. i was at the munich security conference, and leaders were saying it means nato membership. if it's not, it is a bilateral guarantee that is a real one. it has to be like a porcupine. it is so sharp, it deters another invasion, to repeat it again. >> putin was there in 2014, took crimea, bided his time, had little battles in the east, and came back again. he'll continue to do it. it needs to not just be pushing back the russians now, but having a ukraine secure enough to defend itself in the future. that also means building up western munitions. this is particularly important for the europeans. as you've discussed on your show, the scale of weapons used right now, the scale of munitions used on both sides in this war is completely unsustainable. it is much higher than the production capacity we have right now.

probably the pace of the hot war will slow, but nonetheless, to build these kind of defensive capabilities, we're going to have to increase military spending. particularly, europeans have to increase military spending. lots of european countries not near the 2% gdp nato target. in europe, there are too many people who hide behind the broad sense of, yes, ukraine must win, but don't grapple with what that really means in terms of more military spending, sustained support. ukraine probably in nato, at least a security guarantee, and then in the european union. that's what we're arguing for. we're arguing for realism about what this all means. >> that is so important. because i know you've heard it, i certainly have heard it from european leaders, some skepticism behind closed doors. they're all for ukraine. you go behind closed doors and talk to them, suddenly, they go, oh, ukraine right now, i just don't see eu membership being a possible. they have a lot of years to untangle, the corruption going on there. then you talk about nato membership, oh, we're not really

sure about nato membership either. we still have the -- so you start talking to european leaders behind closed doors and say, wait a second, if not the eu, if not nato, what exactly are you talking about? i couldn't agree with you more. if ukraine is to get to a negotiating table and negotiate any peace, regardless of what territory is being given up or what territory is being gained, there has to be security arrangement. if you don't call it nato, it needs to be nato by another name. >> exactly. there was a senior ukrainian official, said it was de facto nato membership. i completely agree with you. i'd go further. there are some in europe -- everyone now says ukraine must win. we'll support ukraine. behind that, quietly, they almost wish as though you could go back to the world of february 23rd, 2022. when the fighting stops, the world before will come back. it won't.

it's a very different world, particularly in europe. we face a very evidently imperialist, aggressive russia in its current incarnation. that'll be here for years. you talked earlier about what china might be doing. that makes it more complicated. you can't wish this stuff away. this is the world we're in. i think it is important for politicians to prepare their electorates for what that means. >> so in america, as you know, we have red state populism. i was shocked when i saw boris johnson's last election and saw all his labor strongholds in the north that hadn't gone for a conservative in 100 years fall. i said, oh, my god, that's wisconsin. that's -- so we share so many of the same sort of post-industrial challenges. i'm curious, you heard us talking before we came on about republicans who are standing shoulder to shoulder with the president. there is an undercurrent, though, in congress that talks about us needing to take more of a populist, isolationist role.

i don't think those voices are going to have the day for quite some time here. i'm curious though, what the situation is in britain and the rest of europe. >> in britain, support is still very strong, and i think has been, you know, strong throughout. there is a great deal of populist support, notwithstanding the substantial cost of living crisis because of higher gas prices. i worry about other parts of europe. interestingly, italy, which has been much closer to russia, maloney, the otherwise populist, fairy far right prime minister of italy has been very tough. very tough against what russia is doing and pro-nato. interesting politics in europe. the underlying point is, i think there are quite a lot of people who see this as somewhat of a -- it's a war between ukraine and russia. it is little. it is east of europe. it is not all about us. because they haven't had laid out to them in detail what the con consequences of this are, i

don't think they're necessarily ready to deal with those. germany is one i worry about. a couple days after the invasion, the german chancellor said, this is a change. germany has to fundamentally change. it has changed, actually, in it energy use, but the military hasn't changed at all. virtually nothing has happened. the german military is extremely weak still. i think there's a putting into practice of these grand statements. you're right, it's not -- we can't take for granted that european electorates are going to go along with this. they're certainly not going along with it unless the stakes are laid out. >> editor in chief at "the economist," incredible, thank you for being on this morning. we appreciate it. let's go to willie. i understand you've got some breaking news from "the wall street journal," willie. >> even as we've been having this conversation, and a few minutes ago we were talking about china's behavior this week and its role in the war in

ukraine, some news from "the wall street journal" just crossing, that the united states will more than quadruple the number of forces it has in taiwan to bolster military training of the taiwanese, weapons trainings, maneuvers. it is long planned. officials in this piece say it is not a response to the spy balloon. it is not a response to china's behaior this week. but quadrupling. in raw numbers, it's not a lot of troops. there are only 30 american troops now in taiwan. it'll be about 100 to 200 now. an escalation, certainly. put that with a new base in guam, increased presence in the philippines, this administration is sending signals to china. >> they really are. look at the agreement we had with australia regarding nuclear subs. you look at, like you said, the new commitment that the philippines has to working with

the united states. you look at japan, also talking about what germany is talking about. japan is actually, i think, going to move ahead and do it more quickly, the same there. jen psaki, you see troops being moved there. people may ask, why do we only have 30 troops there? why are we now moving up to 100 troops? this is, again, not so long ago, taiwan was a word that most presidents didn't even want to mention. >> yeah. >> because we just lived -- >> they were nervous. >> yeah. well, and we lived this creative fiction. the understanding was with china, you don't touch taiwan. we don't mention taiwan. it worked for a very long time. but it's getting harder and harder to predict what xi is going to do. i predict 30 becomes 100. if china continues to help russia, 100 becomes 1,000. 1,000 becomes 10,000. it's just -- it's not -- i just -- i don't want to help our

adversaries, but it's just not a smart move. it's another self-own by xi if they step in this war for russia. >> well, i think it is important to remember, as we're seeing all this china news, that, you know, this has been kind of an iceberg under the surface for years. certainly back to the beginning of the biden administration. i mean, our relationship, the united states' relationship with china someone of the trickiest andprecarious. it hasn't been front and center in the news. xi made himself basically leader of the country as long as he wants to be, right? they've been manipulating the market economy. they've been abusing uighurs. they have been, and even as it relates to the war in ukraine, yes, the white house has been very outspoken in the last week, but they've been walking a tight rope, china, over the last year. it has been unclear what kind of support they've been providing russia. they have been providing them economic support. they have been, obviously, been contemplating providing additional support. so this is all an indication

that this relationship has been precarious for a while, but it may take up a lot more of the oxygen in the situation room and of president biden and the national security team's time. because there's so many different layers of challenge here. >> let's recall, of course, this comes just weeks after increased warnings from the pentagon, later walked back, about how a conflict with china over taiwan might be inevitable. we should mention that xi jinping, when he secured another term in office just a few months ago, big part of the party platform is this reunification. he wants taiwan and believes it should be part of china and will act upon it at some point. officials say this move today was long in the works, not directly related to the events this week and the support beijing may be offering moscow, joe and mika. i point to the timing of the leak. the story comes out this week. >> yeah. >> that's noteworthy. >> yeah. i agree. jen psaki, thank you so much. still ahead, congresswoman

mikie sherrill sits on a key committee on china. we'll get her reaction on this news crossing about troop presence in taiwan increasing. also, the seditious conspiracy trial for members of the proud boys. what one former member told the court about trying to, quote, save the country in the days leading up to january 6th. also ahead, democrats pulled off significant victories across the midwest last november, but the party faces serious challenges in the region ahead of 2024. we're digging into a new report about the party's standing in america's factory towns. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. why are 93% of sleep number sleepers very satisfied with their bed?

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and killed a local tv reporter, a 9-year-old girl and a woman in her 20s. nbc news correspondent guad venegas reports from orlando. >> reporter: twice in one day, the same neighborhood, the scene of murder and mayhem. >> be advised we have a gunshot wound. >> reporter: authorities say a gunman opened fire at the same location just hours apart, killing at least three people, leaving two others in critical condition. authorities arrested 19-year-old keith melvin moses, a teen they say had a troubled past. >> he has a lengthy criminal history, to include gun charges, aggravated battery and assault with a deadly weapon, burglary and grand theft charges. >> reporter: among those killed, dylan lyons, a 24-year-old journalist for spectrum news 13 in orlando. in a gofundme page, his sister writing, he have a happy soul and wonderful person. adding, he loved his fiance and was a devoted son to his mother and father.

our orlando nbc station's coverage emotional. >> there are people here who knew that reporter. his fiance and i were just embracing. this is every reporter's absolutely worst nightmare. >> reporter: the reporter and photographer were in pine hills covering a deadly shooting that happened earlier that day involving a 20-year-old woman who was shot and killed in a vehicle. >> he was an acquaintance of the woman. >> reporter: just hours later, investigators say the suspect returned to the crime scene and opened fire at the news crew, killing one and critically injuring the other, jesse wall walldon, who has spoken with investigators and colleagues according to greg angel. other members of the media jumping in to provide first aid on at least one victim before emergency crews arrived. deputies say the suspect then went into a nearby home, killing a 9-year-old girl and shooting her mother. >> no connection to the

reporters, no connection to the mother and the 9-year-old. >> reporter: spectrum news releaing a statement reading in part, our thoughts are with our employee's family, friends and coworkers during this very difficult time. >> we send ours, as well. that's nbc's guad venegas reporting. if you listen to the sheriff, a particular face over the years, he said they were saying an unmarked car. civilian automobile. it wasn't a news van, so it is not clear this man targeted a journalist, per se. looked like some of this was at random, walking into a house, killing a 9-year-old. journalist on the job, it is devastating to all of us in the business. >> certainly is. we send our very best. hard to imagine a 9-year-old is in her house, would be randomly shot down. this is the risk that journalists take. i mean, mike, you and i, i was at the "new york daily news" covering crime. you did it in boston so long. every time you walk up to a scene like this, there is a

chance something horrible could happen. this is just beyond tragic for this poor man of florida. >> you're right about that, about the circumstances. it could happen to anyone at any time. to willie's point, the shooter's day began with shooting and killing a 9-year-old. it's always the gun. the gun is always present in these things. >> we will stay on top of this story. again, sending our condolences to all the families there. we turn back to politics now. despite a better than expected performance in last year's midterm elections, the democratic party facing big challenges in largely white working class states that will likely play into the outcome. the party's vulnerabilities and opportunities in communities hit hard by deindustrialization. quote, pretty damaged in plag p like iowa, michigan, pennsylvania, ohio and wisconsin.

joining us is the author of the new piece, national political reporter ktie glick. also, co-author of "the playbook," eugene daniels, a "morning joe" senior contributor. good morning to you both. katie, i'll start with you. what is the problem, and how hard are democrats working at this? obviously, joe biden brands himself as a working class guy. he's been doing events at union halls and places like wisconsin and michigan. what is their hope of pulling back some of those voters in '24? >> the problem is really significant for the democratic party. of course, as we all know, a lot of these white working class counties, sort of ancestrial democratic, but then shifted with donald trump. president biden was able to reduce his margins of loss in 2020, and that helped him win in key places like pennsylvania and michigan. certainly, we saw a number of prominent democratic leaders

make some real gains in a number of these places during the midterms. gretchen whitmer, josh shapiro, fetterman. there are still significant challenges with the brand. voters don't know democrats have made some efforts on economic investments, right, with some of the major legislation. they don't trust that the party is looking out for their interests. >> joe, we've talked a lot about ohio in that midterm election. democrats ran a great candidate in tim ryan, who could appear to working class voters, a native son of the state. yet, he still lost by a comfortable margin to jd vance. >> he really did. katie, it's the question democrats always ask, why do voters vote against their own economic self-interest? because, obviously, republican economic issues are varied and don't focus on the problems with working class voters. also, i guess, the other

question is, what's changed since 2008 when barack obama did very well in a lot of these communities, and swept through wisconsin, swept through michigan, swept through pennsylvania, won ohio? i mean, wasn't even close in a lot of these states for barack obama. >> certainly, and that has been a problem that the democratic party has been grappling with to varying degrees over the last number of years, as donald trump drove home just how much there is a disconnect between where a lot of the voters were, at least in 2016 in some of these communities and where the party had moved. to your first point about the economic question, one thing that was really troubling for democrats in the report is over the last year, voters in a lot of these communities are increasingly buying into republican narratives around what's driving economic

challenges. they are increasingly buying into concerns about taxing, government taxes, government spending, et cetera, opposed to the democratic message, that, you know, this is a product of corporate greed, of the republicans being too close to ceos. >>eugene, something katie highlights is both paries have a branding problem. many voters studies in the factory towns are deeply, profoundly cynical about both political parties, the report found, with swing voters holding the impression that both democrats and republicans are too the sharpest argument against republicans, the polling found, is they are on the side of corporations and ceos and work for the wealthy. democrats, meantime, are seen as weak and ineffective, especially when it comes to economics. inside the report, the data found democrats struggled with the perception that a democratic economic plan does not exist or doesn't help regular people's own working families. a claim that resonated with base democratic and independent voters. kind of bipartisan cynicism

here, eugene. >> exactly. democrats and republicans have known that. katie's article pointed to democratic strategists, and they saw it and agreed with it. they said, these are things we know. they also have struggled to deal with it. how do you change that perception? because at the same time, this is a party that considers itself a big ten party. valuing the interests of different constituency groups that are sometimes large and loud, they have to figure that out. on the economic message, it is interesting that joe biden and democrats last year and the year before, they struggled with talking about the economic message because of repetition. i talked to a lot of democratic strategists and folks in the white house. they acknowledged that democrats don't repeat enough when they are talking about how -- what they're going to do for the economy, the kinds of things they have done for the economy. republicans don't have that issue. they repeat over and over and over again.

you also see an issue where republicans with typically get on the same page up and down the media bubble in their party. it doesn't happen on the left. i talked about the balance democrats have to strike between black voters and white working class voters, urban voters, those kinds of things. when you looked at the report, how did that come up? what'd they say about how they continue to struggle with that balance? >> well, to take a step back, joe biden, of course, won the 2020 democratic primary with a multi-racial coalition of working class voters. he, of course, as we all know, roots in sscranton. he's spent his career fashioning himself as a champion for working class voters, white voters, black voters across the broad diversity of voters, certainty. this particularly report focused on what is happening in some of these counties that are

predominantly white working class, which, you know, are many counties in these critical industrial midwestern battleground states. certainly, democratic party is hoping to have a broad coalition. there's always kinds of tensions within the coalition. i think this report laid bare a number of them. >> eugene, decade ago, 10, 15 years ago when democrats ran for office, they were identified specifically as democrats. now, the word "progressive" has been influenced a lot in campaigns, especially its usage by formerly called democrats. they now call themselves progressives. what impact do you think it's had on the democrat chances of winning blue collar voters, in terms of progressive word being mixed with the culture wars? >> i think, first of all, voters don't like change. that's one, right? changing and trying to rebrand where it is kind of all over the police, it's created these factions within the democratic

party, both up here in washington, d.c., and around the country, as you're talking about people calling themselves progressives. at times, folks i'm talking to saying, i'm a progressive. i just run under the democratic banner. there is no progressive party in this country. they have to figure out what it looks like. as i said, this is a party that wants to be a big ten party. when you're trying to deal with what black voters want, what white working class voters want, what black working class voters want, what folks in these -- you know, the cities want, what folks in the south need, it is going to be extremely difficult. it is becoming more difficult because of the populism within the republican party. they know they have a branding problem. how they fix it, these democrats, is really difficult. i will say, you know, some of the strategists i talked with yesterday about katie's story, what they said is, this is one of the reasons why many of them feel like joe biden is probably their best bet. because they haven't figured out this balance and haven't figured

out how to change some of these things and their kind of pr in the center of the country with these white working class voters. he has. >> katie, eugene, thank you, both. >> thank you, both. >> john, this is something the white house, joe biden, clearly understands and are working on. if you look at his recent events in the midwest even. >> if there is any candidate who can win back the white working class voters, it is scranton joe biden. the first event after the state of the union was a union hall in wisconsin. i was told my senior aides, get used to it. this year will look like industrial events and union events targeting white working class voters. coming up, we're looking at the possible fallout from a bizarre media tour by a georgia grand jury.

i joined kelly clarkson on her show yesterday to preview the 30/50 summit in abu dhabi, less than two weeks ago. we talked about international women's day. also, know your values mission to help women showcase their successes later in life and pay it forward. that's exactly what we did, with two of kelly's guests. >> i would love to invite you both. i will give you tickets to be my guests at the 30/50 summit in abu dhabi, so you can come with me to network, to make connections, to share ideas, and to help lift women up from around the world. will you come with me? [ applause ] >> thank you, mika! >> so cool. >> thank you! >> that's -- everybody just needs opportunity. that's incredible, mika. one, you are in the position to be able to do that for people and that you do so, and then, also, it is incredible to have that opportunity, like, come at you. i can tell tracy and nancy are

excited, okay? >> all right. >> amazing. >> we have a lot more information for you about the 30/50 summit in abu dhabi. just go to knowyourvalue.com for that. the lineup is absolutely remarkable. hillary clinton, billie jean king, gloria steinem, misty copeland, ayesha curry, joining us at the crossroads of the world. this is an incredible opportunity for women around the world. also, i think it is going to be newsmaking with the addition of ukraine's first lady, olena zelenska to the lineup. it'll be a remarkable event. again -- >> really. we've heard randall at "forbes" said it is the greatest collection of women. >> yeah. >> at one of these events. >> ever. >> in history. and you look at hillary clinton, gloria steinem, you look at billie jean king. >> malala. >> look at these women who were

on the forefront for a very long time. and were real leaders. >> also changemakers of the future. >> it's incredible. >> it is mentoring. it is cross-cultural, cross-generational mentoring and building of relationships. it is going to be remarkable. >> you always talk about that long runway, and that's what you've been talking about. women once they get over 50, they have a long runway for success. you look at the most powerful women in the world, they prove it every day. the women who signs our dollar bills. >> yes. >> nancy pelosi, of course, and the power she's had for so long. christine lagarde in europe. you could go around the world. it is women over 50 who are running so much, especially key institutions. >> having impact, success, and also you can reach your greatness happiness, as well, all well after the age of 50. we'll be right back.

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i mean, that's some talking going on right there. didn't get specific. >> what? >> walked up to the line if you watch your full conversation and stopped before disclosing too much. is there a sense that the judge is watching the interview and print interviews saying wait a second? >> we talk about her walking up to the line. did she cross the line. did she insinuate answers that she shouldn't be and what's the consequence of those? >> those were our questions yesterday about the interviews given by the foreperson of the grand jury that looked into former president trump. emily kohrs essentially did a

media tour. now many investigators are looking to use statements by her to quash any potential indictments by the district attorney. they argue her comments could taint the investigation. to be clear, the special grand jury can only recommend charges. the district attorney would have to bring indictments before a grand jury. >> let's bring in harry litman and dave aaronburg. dave, what do you think of the statements? will they stop donald trump and others from being indicted in georgia? >> good morning. it will not stop an indictment against the former president. it is a feature of the grand jury system, not a bug, for a 30-year-old unemployed individual who doesn't vote in

elections to decide whether a former president will be indicted. it is not a feature for a grand juror to blab about the excellent adventure and how funny rudy giuliani was. it does show that she is not a partisan. no democrat i know would be laughing with rudy giuliani. and you can expect future court challenges because of the media tour but if trump is indicted it will not affect matters because this is a special purpose grand jury. this is not the grand jury to do the indictments but advised the district attorney there on whether to seek indictments. she didn't give away the store. she did conceal what's redacted in the grand jury report. although it is a bad look, it is not going to make a difference

in the end. >> that's the point, harry, you have been making. it is not great. this jury foreperson is clearly enjoying the media tour aid time in the spotlight. gave donald trump ammunition but does this actually impact the possibility that there might be indictments in the case? >> oh, the possibility of indictments i can't see it's implicating. fani willis will make a judgment. this is like an exercise that goes to her and then the real indictments happen. of course anything at all unorthodox and this is will be the basis for motions but there's no taint here. she is not going anything against the law. they are discharged and the tour

is imprudent but no basis for challenging any indictment that comes out. >> there's a detail buried where she talked about interview the late georgia house speaker while holding a ninja turtle pop cycle she was given. take that detail out. that's amusing. why was there a party? >> totally sharp on your part to zero in on that. that's one thing that shouldn't be happening. again, it is a separate exercise. i don't think t tynk it's quite given day the 23 or maybe even prosecutor and brought the equivalent of donuts and the way she put it. on the other hand, by the way, i

think she plainly crossed the line many times but shortsighted because people don't look at the legal implication but it's making us neglect the headline. she as much told us they recommend the first ever indictment of the former president of the united states and probably well-known names. you can guess as well as i can. rudy giuliani, meadows, et cetera. defense will try to do whatever they can with this. there's no basis to challenge. >> this is one area of legal peril former president trump is facing. we had news on subpoenas or kushner and ivanka trump. both senior white house advisers. what does that tell you. these are inner circle as it

gets in the trump white house. what does that tell you for january 6 and 2020 election fraud? >> first, jack smith is not messing around. to the heart. sort of thing that smirt's view is everybody shower in the grand jury but often in the doj you handle this with kid gloves. huh-uh. i want to hear kushner and ivanka with real things to say and tells me where he is going and been in the sense that this is an end game move. not to say indictments next week but pence and these two you do toward the end and going to enrage the former president. anything going after ivanka. she is legally obligated. she will squirm but certain i think events and pieces of testimony she has to give up.

she can try to claim executive privilege. >> you know, david, the problem for donald trump is everybody that worked for him, around him on january 6 including ivanka begging him to do something. stop the rioting. he just didn't do it. so again, whoever they call that were around donald trump on january 6 going to have incriminating ed, incriminating testimony against the former president, aren't they? >> endeed, joe. ivanka is in his inner circle and an insurance policy against mike pence trying to fight the subpoena. if she was there in the room when donald trump called mike pence and called him names and intimidated him and she was there. they will have her testimony.

she better not lie. as harry could tell you, lie before a grand jury you wear steel bracelets. she shouldn't do that. this is a self inflicted wound by donald trump because this is jack smith being the pit bull that he is annual the only reason he was appointed is because donald trump made this early announcement for president. had he not done that it would be in the hands of merrick garland. why has it taken two years to subpoena trump's inner circle? it took too long but it is happening now. >> one thing about ivanka and jared, they distanced themselves a bit from donald trump and actually ivanka at least gave some testimony to the january 6 committee not helpful to her

father and i think the last thing they do is risk perjury. wherever jack smith goes it is not good news for donald trump. harry, before we go, do you think we're going to see charges against donald trump for january the 6th? i understand the dock ms case, the georgia cases, if there is anybody else but donald trump the indictments would be handed down. i'm curious why people drag their feet in georgia. he should have been indicted for that phone call. if i were a congressman and made that phone call i would have been indicted and in jail. any other member of the congress would be in jail i knew people sent to jail for hell of a lot less than that. on january 6 people in sitting jail now part of a conspiracy.

a seditious conspiracy. yet donald trump still sitting in a country club. while the other people are sitting in jail. do you think he's ever going to see justice? >> so, well, justice yes. the conventional wisdom is that's sprawling, difficult, complicated. but the news that smith is making today, what is pence? pence is only good for january 6. ivanka, try iing to tell him to beg off. everybody telling heifer. she is at the center and can testify to those things. he is clearly developing it. rapidly and toward an end game. to me if he starts with mar-a-lago, things begin to look different but i don't think that's a near state of immaturity of before.

i think it is coming to a head within the department. >> by the way, if mike pence thinks he will weasel out of testimony with this supreme court he's not paying attention to the roberts court handing down over the past three, four, five months. >> dave and harry, thank you both very much for being on this morning. in a moment we'll speak with a congresswoman of new jersey a member of the committee of competition between the u.s. and china. china's top diplomat met yesterday with vladimir putin highlighting the economic partnership. and we are following a developing story from "wall street journal" which reports the u.s. military is expanding its troop presence in taiwan. the pentagon is reportedly focused on tactics and weapon systems to make the island

harder assault as president joe biden is back at the white house this morning following a his toefric trip to eastern europe. yesterday the president met with a group of the bucharest nine. they formed an alliance in 2014. president biden reiterated america's commitment to article v meaning the united states defends any nato ally if vladimir putin pushed the military campaign beyond ukraine. >> as nato's eastern flank, you are the front lines of the collective defense and know better than anyone what's at stake. not just for ukraine but the freedom of democracies throughout europe and the world. article v is a sacred commitment the united states made. we'll defend every inch of nato.

>> that is such a extraordinary statement to make ainge a and a change from the last member who wanted to dismember nato piece by piece. i got to say the next guy that wants to be the next republican nominee went on tv a couple days ago and said, hey, don't worry about vladimir putin going in to neighboring countries. extraordinarily ignorant thing to say. i don't know where he's been over the past 45, 50 years. >> desantis? >> yeah. a harvard and yale boy. i thought they taught history at those high faluting schools. i thought they understand that estonia, latvia, lithuania,

those balkan states, people in poland, the bucharest nine that joe biden spoke to yesterday, they were under russian domination. in 1989. not so long ago. maybe he was running under harvard or yale. i don't know. but again, i'm not sure what they taught up there. but i know this. that if you go to estonia you got a leader whose family deported from estonia by the soviets. if you go to latvia, lithuania, poland you have people who are alive today whose families suffered extraordinary pain and hardship under russian tyranny and fear for their lives every

day. some ivy league boy saying that they got nothing to worry about with vladimir putin, that's somebody who's ignorant of history and i would like to call the history departments and some of those other schools and ask what the hell they have been teaching for 50 years. i don't get it. >> you were never registered at alabama. sneaking into classes. >> i had an old suitcase. i was like the forrest gump and let me walk in. >> no record of you in tuscaloosa and yet you were there for four years. joining us no new york, congresswoman mikey cheryl of

new jersey. also a navy officer. good morning, congresswoman. good to have you here. >> thank you. >> a lot to talk to you about especially the news from taiwan. >> sure. >> the united states sending more troops to taiwan but let's talk about the president's visit and the importance of the message with president zelenskyy but the speech in warsaw in defense of the west and democracy and freedom. how significant in your eyes was this week for the president and the world? >> this last year has been incredibly significant. friday marks a year since russia invaded ukraine. those of us in national security for a while have been very concerned about the encroachment of authoritarianism across the

world through russia and china. now we see the nato alliance as strong as ever. the president's speech i think was the right tone and tenor. we have set up a rules based order that has led to the greatest era of peace and prosperity that the globe has ever known. there are problems throughout the world but when you look at china and india and how they benefited, we haven't seen the global wars igniting from europe for many years now, this has been such a marked era of democratic leadership led by the united states and are ready to lead again. >> what's the level of resolve in congress of supporting

ukraine? a small group of republicans gets the attention but michael mccall led a delegation to kyiv. they said we need to send more and faster. do you believe the united states congress is behind this effort? >> i do. i believe the majority of united states congress and the american people understand the great benefit that democracy has brought to the world but particularly the great benefit that our democratic values have here at home and prospered as a country in this era because of our leadership and so important to promote this in the wake of authoritarian regimes growing in power. >> congresswoman, there's been a lot of talk about a summit between president xi and putin in moscow. my question to you is a simple one. what is most important to the

chinese? is it a relationship with putin and moscow going forward or a relationship with the huge economic engine that is europe? >> i think that's a really great question because as we look across the world we often gauge how leaders fare on what would happen in the united states and people forget that xi and putin control the media and communications and thought and have a population not used to democracy, not used to independence or autonomy over their individual few chu you ares so i think what xi is concerned about is control over the population and balancing that with making sure that the economic markets function as best as possible to control the population. >> so let's talk about taiwan as willie mentioned earlier. news to quadruple the presence

there in taiwan. we know the rhetoric picked up dramatically in recent months and house speaker kevin mccarthy is planning a trip there. give us a sense where things stand there and do you see a link between beijing and moscow and we couldn't help but notice it was leaked today. >> i think you are seeing the united states, our commitment and resolve to help them help themselves. in the wake of global events and more important than ever to ensure that they have the tools to protect and defend themselves and what you see with this exercise and the training right now. >> how fearful are you that a

conflict is inevitable? >> we can doing everything we can now to deter that conflict with taking place and part of the way is ensure the ukrainians winning this war against russia. china is watching. if russia is able to invade and overtake the territorial integrity of ukraine and overstate the democratic state then that says something to china. we heard from the former minister of korea that north korea is watching. i don't think the need for ukraine to prevail in this fight can be overstated. >> all that show of western strength and unity is so important. thank you and give our best to montclair. >> i will. >> absolutely. let's bring in executive editor of defense one kevin

barren. thank you so much for being with us. you were at the munich security conference all three days. fascinating insight about the vice president, western leaders saying the right thing. people applauding and in the halls there's a growing siran -- concern about a divide. talk about the divide, especially on the escalation worry that france, britain, the united states worry about so much that the baltic states, poland and others, just have no concern at all? >> i don't know if it's the beer and pretzels in munich but you see harris' speech and macron and schulz and everybody saying

the right thing. there's unity among the allies. an extraordinary moment. nato has come together but it is not enough. i heard time and time again from those who are academics, staffers, military officials, everybody nodding along saying that is not enough. so you had a conference celebrating one year later that russia hasn't won and so frustrated that neither has ukraine. pledges keep coming but you get everyone trapped in the debate over the next best piece of hardware. what about the jets when there's so much more to be done. >> right. >> a lot of voices, the bucharest nine, there's the globe set happening back in may and since then there's already

night and day messaging from the border countries in europe saying russia cannot win not one inch of territory. even president biden. seems to say all the right things but folks just want more and now. they are tired of what they have heard and think putin is bluffing and time to call it. >> nobody can imagine more than the ukrainians what it is like on the front lines and the suffers in ukraine and the pledges are important. the commitments are important. but each comes with a delay of execution. and the training to come with it. >> again -- >> frustrating. >> yeah. >> we talk about the east-west

split, kevin, between the united states and europe. and then the russians. i almost said the soviets and china. but there's an east-west split within europe when it comes to how aggressively we go after russia. you talk to leaders and they will tell you not an inch. every russian has to be pushed out of ukrainian territory. that is just not what leaders are saying in france, britain or the united states. >> yeah. almost -- the west doesn't buy it or has the luxury of not having to. right? they are not the border countries but the ones with the nuclear weapons that would be involved in an escalated war if

it happened. you had a guest on earlier from "the economist" mod rating a panel with foreign ministers of the eastern countries with the calls and david patreus on the panel and didn't end as people thought they would. and laid out three different levels of weaponry that needs to get there. what's needed there now and june and afterward and pointed to air pour will be needed and also a much larger nonmilitary push for a change of heart in russia. something has to be done to convince putin it is not worth russia to pull out. and on the panel another said that it has to be the same reason that the french wanted to pull out of algeria. has to be a moment where putin

or somebody in his place realizes this isn't worth it anymore and then there's a rebuilding of europe and a restart in russia. to a lot of people at that conference that's the end of the war. not a peace treaty and a negotiating table and tanks and jets. there's cross talk going on. >> so glad you brought up ann applebaum. that's somebody who when she was very young worked in a small way to -- against the soviet union. if you talk to ann applebaum, talk to her husband, talk again to other people in poland, across the baltic states, not one inch. they don't want the ukrainians to cede one inch of territory to

russia. they believe anything less than that encourages vladimir putin to just come back later on after he -- >> absolutely. on that one point everybody is united. kevin, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. tonight at 8:00 p.m., joe hosts a special prime time hour marking one year since the russian invasion of ukraine featuring joe's sitdown interviews with blinken, austin, milley and sullivan. plus front line reporting from richard engel and clint watt and analysis from top foreign policy experts. the packed special hour tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here

on msnbc. other stories, a key government witness in the proud boys seditious conspiracy trial says lead everies of the group plotted to prevent joe biden from taking office because they were quote trying to say the cub. jeremy made the statements yesterday in the trial. the former proud boy member said he believed quote an all-out revolution was brewing in the days before the mob of donald trump supporters attacked on january 6, 2021. but he said he thinks the revolution ultimately failed because law enforcement officers quickly quelled the riot allowing the senate to certify president biden's victory. the 43-year-old is the onl who

seditious conspiracy. he agreed to cooperate with prosecutors and hasn't been sentenced yet. he is expected to continue testifying today when the trial resumes. also tracking severe weather across the country. angie lassman has the latest. >> busy across the country. you can see how snowy it is in duluth and the plains. advisories in a lot of places through the weekend. look at the radar. we will start to see improvements for places dealing with the snow for past 24 hours and seeing some snow exit in the northeast. seeing improvement. through the day today we could pick up 4 to 6 inches like the upper peninsula of michigan and

maine. dealing with ice accumulation. in places like hartford, boston, bulling on the. that will improve as the system moves out. dealing with records lows in a lot of places. still 10 million people in parts of the plains and out west dealing with the frigd temperatures. 33 below it feels like in rapid city. the southeast with record highs and for days, dozens of cities could see the record setting temperatures this afternoon. knox new york city 81. that would beat the most recent record in the 1800s. we gear up for a storm system. rain, snow. we have a blizzard warning set up for parts of los angeles county. that's rare. >> my goodness.

thank you very much for that report. still ahead on "morning joe," florida governor ron desantis down played the threat from russia. we'll compare his comments to what leaders of the bucharest nine are facing. new polling shows president biden with the highest support of a re-election bid in almost a year. here is a live look at transportation secretary pete buttigieg in east palestine, ohio, touring the site of that train derailment in ohio. we'll be right back.

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as president biden returns home from europe there is new polling that is showing support for his possible re-election bid. the numbers are changing a little bit. >> a lot. the latest marist. 45% said they should give another candidate a chance. a better chance. you look at november. those numbers. jumped from 38% to 50%. this poll is just a snapshot. really doesn't mean a not. if joe biden divides to run for re-election, he will run for re-election. democrats would be stupid to run against him. again, joe biden is a guy who is constantly underestimated. his political career and the campaign in 2020, mocked,

ridiculed by the right and the progressive left. underestimated over the last two years. we hear the whispers and then the midterms come. okay. and then it is like, a week later, too old. not going to be up to it. and then he does the state of the union. okay. we're fine. don't worry. two nights later the bed wetting begins again. we can't -- the guy showing up on a secret trip to kyiv after taking a 10-hour train ride in and could have been killed by enemy troops in the war zone. now -- >> walking the streets of kyiv. >> maybe this guy is like -- did

20 hours of train rides that i guarantee you donald trump would have never had the you know what to do, the guts to do. >> would be too uncomfortable for him. >> the pink boys criticizing joe biden on the far right in the suspenders would never do what he did. he did it. he kent to kyiv. he sent a strong message not only to ukraine but the world about what america -- not democrats or joe biden -- what america thinks of democracy and we have behind ukraine. it is a strong message. i think you will see it in the polls more, especially among democrats that, yeah, this guy that went into a war zone in a way that no other president did since lincoln in the civil war, maybe he is up to running for re-election. that poll was taken before the

events of the four days and thinking about whether joe biden should run again. the speech on tuesday. the meeting. he is back home now. if you look at the timeline of the leak from november to now this is a time of great concern why there was gnashing of teeth and everything else. you will lose the senate and the country effectively thought democrats to republicans. didn't turn out that way. and then donald trump gets into the race and joe biden is the guy that has beaten him. maybe he is the right man to run again. >> that's right. when you sit in a white house and months like this as you said back to november kind of braszing for impact, even they i think were surprised by how well the democrats did given what the

expectations were in november but for months waiting inside the white house for something to break in the polls their way. right? historic bills passed. nothing seemed to move. there was an election that went better than expected. nothing seemed to move. good thing as he looks to likely run in two years is he was born with a good, healthy chip on his shoulder and because of that he always feels like he has something to prove and what you need. that motivates him to give a state of the union that would have made me tired and so sit on a train for ten hours. he does have energy and experience and see how that plays out in the polls in the weeks ahead. they have been waiting for

something to break for manies. coming up, a live report from eastern europe as the world marks a year since the russian invasion. richard engel is there and joins us on "morning joe."

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same threat to our country on the same level as a china. >> nato's eastern flank, you are the front lines of the collective defense. and you know what's at stake, not just for ukraine but democracies in europe and the world. article v is a sacred commitment the united states made. we will defend every inch of nato. every inch of nato. >> you know, jen, we just have to stop right there for a second. you had ron desantis coming out the other day going, oh, vladimir putin doesn't pose any risk at all. any nato countries. those nine countries have lived in mortal fear of vladimir putin doing to them the same exact thing that he did to ukraine.

i wouldn't -- we don't have to ask what the leaders of e stone gentleman, latvia, lithuania, of poland and the other countries on the border of russia or close to russia, the fear they live in every day. the leader of estonia, her family was hauled off. her mother hauled off to prison camps in russia, relocated i think when her mom was like 6 years old. the idea that some guy, an ivy league boy can sit in the sunshine state and go, oh, vladimir putin doesn't pose any risk to the -- you know, to estonia, to latvia. has to be dumbfounding to people who have lived in the shadow of

vladimir putin's imperialistic designs for decades. >> no doubt. hears those comments from governor desantis i was thinking what if he answers five more questions on this. as many republicans think he is the next great hope and maybe he is in some ways it wasn't a particularly sophisticated answer and out of whack with what we have seen in the last year. the b-9, we used to have a weekly meeting with the national security team and scheduling team and jake sullivan and others would say i talked to the president about doing a call with the b-9. these are the countrys that are on the front lines. it is poland, of course,

estonia, latvia, the countries near the border of russia. they are pivotality. >> absolutely. >> president biden is working on the national security issues for decades and knew early then not just having conversation with france and the united kingdom but that the b-9 countries were pivotal part of that. that's what experience in this approach looks like. >> ron desantis said every one of those countries have people in the countries that lived under tyranny of russia and the russian troops dominated them. who lived with kgb agents going through the country and the fear of that happening again. again, in their lifetime. 1989 wasn't that long ago. just a really ignorant

statement. i hope people that want him to win take him to the side and actually prepare him better to answer foreign policy questions. >> understanding the issues takes years. not something you can be read in on and it's safe to say i don't think enough people understand the importance of having somebody with decades of experience at the front of something like this. >> it is easy to attack mickey mouse. very easy to try to take -- >> books out of schools. >> or to -- >> the future and safety of the world. >> it is not quite so easy figuring out how to deal with russian aggression. house republicans are set to hold a hearing today at the southern border to press the white house on immigration.

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welcome back. president biden commented on russia suspending the papgs with the nuclear pact. >> big mistake to do that. not very responsible. i think we're less safe when we walk away from arms control agreements that are very much in the countries' interests and the world's interest. we haven't seen anything to be worthy a change in posture. the idea they are thinking of using 'nique clear weapon why is there's no evidence of that. >> joining us from moscow nbc

news chief international correspondent keir simmons. let's putt the week in total looking at the president's visit to kyiv, the speech in warsaw, the meeting with the bucharest nine, yesterday with the speech of president putin. how is it landing in the capital where you are standing today? >> reporter: willie, you did have another stunning split screen with president biden with the bucharest nine and president putin in moscow standing on a stage at another rally with russian fans you could call them supporters waving russian flags telling them if we are united we have no equal. so certainly it has been a week of incredible images and we really got into sharp focus this battle between president biden

and president putin. what we have had this morning is president putin after that announcement that he would su spend the participation in s.t.a.r.t. treaty we the treaty, land, sea and air, so more nuclear saber rattling. i will say about that, i think when it comes to that nuclear announcement by president putin, if you look back to last year, president putin argued that the inspections couldn't work because of u.s. sanctions. i think that gives you a glimmer of what president putin thinks he's trying to do. i think what he's trying to do is set up an argument to say, well, we'll come back to your nuclear agreement if you drop sanctions.

frankly, it's unlikely to work, and we're talking about some time in the future. what it does tell you is that despite all of the rhetoric and the fears of escalation, which are real, there is still this part of president putin who is trying to figure out how to get from a to b now, how to negotiate at some point in the future. again, and i've said it this week, i do think that we've stopped talking about an off ramp for good reason. president biden is being very clear that this is an idealogical battle that has to be won, in his view, and that the ukrainians have to decide that. but at some point, there is going to need to be a conversation again about whereby do we go from here, can there be a cease fire, will it only be an armistice or can they win? again, that will be decided on the battlefield by the ukrainians.

>> keir, thank you so much. mika, we should point out that russia will be conducting joint military exercises with china in south africa. china's top diplomat was in south africa yesterday as well. we have a programming note for you. tonight at 8:00 p.m. joe hosts a special prime time hour marking the one-year date since the russian invasion of ukraine. the special hour features joe's sitdown interviews with secretary of state antony blinken, defense secretary lloyd austin, joint chiefs chairman mark milley and national security advisor jake sullivan, plus reporting from richard engel and clint watts at the maps, at the big board and analysis from top foreign policy expects. the packed special hour premiers tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc.

that will be an important hour for everyone to get completely updated on the state of the war, the state of the world. still ahead, we'll have a live report from east palestine, ohio. transportation secretary pete buttigieg is expected to visit the area today. plus, reaction to former president trump's visit. , reactr president trump's visit.

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wow. snowy day in the great city of duluth, minnesota. 7:57 in the morning there. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe" on this thursday, february 23rd. jonathan lemire, mike barnicle still with us. ahead, a live report from east palestine, ohio. transportation secretary pete buttigieg is there this morning. there he is touring the site and meeting with families and local officials. we will speak with erin brockovich. she's extending her crusade to residents of east palestine. we begin with president biden's historic trip to eastern europe. he's home now.

before leaving the continent, he reaffirmed the commitment to nato and the group of countries known as the bucharest nine. mark bre zin ski. >> poles have come to america and why americans have gone to poland. for over 200 years, there is a real history of sacrifice between our two nations, sacrifice for the cause of american freedom and sacrifice for the cause of polish freedom. and for the first time in

history, today americans and poles share the same freedom after two centuries of struggle. and now our collective agenda is being renewed as both of our countries support ukraine. >> ambassador brzezinski joins us now. talk about how important the president's trip was for the people of poland, for the nato alliance and for all those interested in promoting freedom across europe and the globe. >> in terms of its importance for the people of poland, i will simply quote what polish leaders are saying to the polish people today. they're saying, president biden -- [ speaking non-english ]

president biden cares about you in poland and he cares about your security. what a reenforcement of the president's message that leaders around poland are giving to their people. and to the nato alliance, the message was collective defense works. we've developed in 2022 and 2023 a unity purpose. despite our different self-interests, we have a shared definition of the challenge. that was the importance of president biden's risky and brave trip to kyiv and his visit to poland. >> i was over visiting you and we had a roundtable with polish leaders from the government, from the media, elsewhere.

it's remarkable the change in relations between poland and the united states, which got a bit frayed over the past several years and what those relations were when you first became ambassador and what those relations now in large part because of the war. can you explain that? because there is certainly an understanding. i spoke to the secretary of defense this week, the secretary of state, jake sullivan, national security advisor, chairman of the joint chiefs. every one of them talk about the central role that poland plays in the promotion of freedom moving forward. >> well, thank you, joe, for that question and a central role of poland is the right way of putting it. please remember that 80% of all the supplies coming into ukraine to support the ukrainian people, to help them defend themselves,

80% of all the supplies come through poland. and on the flip side, poland is posting millions of refugees, each one of them in someone's house or home here in poland. so it's an incredible story. i have to say the role poland is playing right now is absolutely critical to this alliance and its trajection of collective defense to work. and i think that the president has been magnificent to get this done. >> it's good to see you again. obviously the threat from russia remains one year in. it's not gone the way vladimir putin expected it would, but still there's widespread suffering in ukraine. can you speak to where the bucharest nine, those eastern

flank, european countries, where they are on this war, where you believe it's headed and how long they're prepared to hang in for this fight. >> sure. the message from the alliance and from president biden is we will defend every square inch of nato territory. that includes each one of the countries of the bucharest nine. here in poland, we have over 10,000 u.s. troops currently deployed all across poland, standing shoulder to shoulder with polish soldiers. i can report to you that in poland the message is clear that the country is safe, that the country is secure. that's the case with all the bucharest nine. at the same time, you know, for this part of the world this moment is 1939. this moment here in central europe is akin to the nazi invasion of poland and central

europe in 1939, except this time in 2022 and 2023 the central europeans can do something about it. so they're taking in refugees. they're flying supplies to ukraine so the ukrainians can defend themselves. and it's working. and president biden's message, his role in this part of the world could not be more embraced or more popular. i think that was seen in old town in warsaw two nights ago when we expected a crowd of about 10,000 people and we had almost 35,000 people there listening on a cold february night in warsaw, poland, to our president reassuring them. it says a lot about america's leadership in the world today. >> mr. ambassador, if you could draw on that last remark on the president's personality and the impact it had on his meetings

with the alliance and the bucharest nine, i noted that ambassador stoltenberg referred to him as joe in conversation before the alliance. president biden's personality, his impact on that stage, on the country that you represent now in poland, tell us about it. >> i think that president biden's personality is a power unto itself. here's what i mean. in the polish-american community president biden is known warmly and colloquially as president bidenski. they know he comes from a state, delaware, with a strong polish community and he was one of the spearheads to enlarge nato to include poland. so nato expansion is what

allowed the removal of the dividing lines between east and west in europe and a coherent sense of security to emerge in central eastern europe. his role in that is very well known. i would say also here in central europe, his public embrace of the refugees, his public embrace of people is magnificent. i have to share this story. we had a meet and greet at the u.s. embassy yesterday for president biden to meet the hundreds of americans who work with the american embassy here. and president biden spontaneously from the warmth of his heart invited all the children to join him on the stage as he spoke to the american embassy community. i have this memory in my mind of president biden on stage with

about 30 children, all having a moment they will remember for the rest of their lives. that's a metaphor of the love, the warmth, and most importantly in this part of the world, the empathy that president biden projects. when joe scarborough came here at the end of january to take part in the commemoration of the liberation of auschwitz, it was evident that day how empathy has to be a word that one thinks of when one thinks of the in this part of the world. this part of the world has endured a lot of suffering, the holocaust, the soviet occupation and now the crisis in ukraine. no one does empathy, no one has genuinely empathy like president biden. it is in tune with the challenges of this moment here in central europe.

>> it is something that you can see immediately stepping off the plane in warsaw, something you saw across poland, of course, something you saw at auschwitz, that history hangs heavily over the polish people. they are so grateful that the united states is there, so grateful for president biden. it's why he has an 82% approval rating right now in poland, which is remarkable in and of itself for many of the reasons you just brought up. u.s. ambassador to poland mark brzezinski, thank you so much for being with us this morning. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. >> i've got to say also, just on a personal note, dr. brzezinski, obviously this was his life. his entire adult life was spent pushing back on russian

aggression. one of the people he trusted the most to be an ally through the years was senator joe biden. the first brzezinski award that was given in his honor was given to then-vice president joe biden. so this is obviously something that i know a lot of people come up to me and talk about dr. brzezinski all the time, say how much they miss him on the show, i can just tell you from talking to him through the years how unbelievably pleased he would be with this moment, with president biden's leadership in central europe and poland, but he would not be surprised at all. let's bring in right now from the eastern part of ukraine, nbc news chief correspondent richard

engel. richard, you have just done extraordinary reporting over the past year, so much of it heartbreaking, so much of it uplifting too. i'm just curious, richard, what would you say to any americans, any europeans who might be fatigued by the story of this war one year later? >> reporter: i would say they might not appreciate the historic significance of it and they don't even know their own history. the united states is a country of immigrants. and many people have come to the united states to escape oppression. that is at play here in ukraine. it has been at play over the past year. generally we know the story of what happened here. we know that a year ago tomorrow, after having denied there was any intention to invade, russian forces invaded at the order of vladimir putin

with the intention of taking over this country, but it didn't go well. ukrainians rallied and showed tremendous strength. countries like poland and others put in a tremendous amount of support. then over this last year we've watched this counter offensive push the russian forces back to the borders. now the russians are trying once again to start a new offensive and do what they couldn't do over the course of this past year. in some of the reporting i've been doing, and i have a special coming out on it tomorrow, there's another story that i think americans can relate to directly. parts of this country, the russians have occupied. it's not just been that the ukrainians have pushed all the russians out and now the country is free. there's about 20% of this country that is occupied by

russian forces and the russian forces have forced people there to speak russian, to not fly the ukrainian flag. there's a russian occupation government in place and russian authorities will arrest and detain anyone who goes against them. we spent weeks in one of these cities, the city of kherson and focused on this underground resistance movement. if you're in a city and it's taken over by a foreign power, you have one of four choice. imagine if you're in a city and suddenly a hostile power takes over. you can either leave and many people over history have faced this choice and chosen to come to the united states. you can sit back and do nothing and hope that it passes you by. you can fight and resist or you can actively become a collaborator and join the occupying authority.

this hour focuses on the people who stood up and resisted. i think this is a kind of story that americans can relate to, because so many people had this in their own families in the united states, depending on whether they were from europe or latin america or africa. just go back far enough and you will find people in your own families who were oppressed and decided they weren't going to accept it and either left and came to the united states or stayed and fought. people who don't appreciate what's going on here don't understand the historic significance and understand how wars impact all of our lives. >> it is extraordinary to watch the will and the skill of the ukrainian people fighting back. richard's reporting featured tonight in joe's special. joe sits down with antony

blinken, lloyd austin, mark milley and jake sullivan, an incredible line-up tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc marking the war in ukraine, one year later. and tomorrow richard's special report on ukraine's secret resistance airs at 10:00 p.m. eastern msnbc, also available for streaming on peacock. with that, we head over to the big board where clint watts is looking at what may happen here in the coming months as the weather begins to get warmer in ukraine. >> as we end the first year of the war, when does the war end? it really comes down to three big scenarios defined by time. is it sooner, later or never? first, let's talk about what's going on here. we see the russians pushing in multiple locations. the offensive is already under way. we've been hearing a lot about this russian offensive.

so far it's not going well. you're seeing human waves push toward ukrainian lines, you see artillery being dropped, tanks not moving too far. this is a war one year later of defensive positions. the ukrainians are defending now, but could they launch a counteroffensive like they did here in the light blue? could they push into these russian lines? a sooner victory for the ukrainians would be if they just decapitated the russian military, if the russian military were to completely collapse, could no longer sustain these lines, similar to what we saw last fall. if you look at the later scenario, i think that's really talking about the bigger picture of this war, which is in the south. remember the ukrainians with their bold maneuvers took back this area here, pushing down toward kherson, they have taken

the northern side of this river. i think what we are looking for and what everyone is wondering is how will the ukrainians go against these dug-in defensive positions? this is a different kind of war now. you see trench lines, fall back positions, you see dragon teeth here, which are anti-tank. all of that is designed to stop any sort of armor penetration that might threaten crimea. president zelenskyy said he wanted to take back all of crimea. it's unlikely the russians would do this. in this scenario, it really comes down to who holds your alliances together? the russians now relying on iran, north korea and china for ammunition and support. and the coalition held together by nato and the eu is really strong, but will that endure over time. >> national security analyst

clint watts, thank you very much for that analysis. let's turn to politics now, i guess. house judiciary republicans are holding a meeting today near the southern border in arizona to address the immigration crisis. it comes after house speaker kevin mccarthy along with several other republican lawmakers made a visit to the border last week to sound the alarm and slam the biden administration's border policies, citing drug trafficking, national security and the humanitarian crisis as migrant encounters at the southern border remain high. joining us is ali vitale with more. >> reporter: this is one of the first field hearings we're seeing from this house judiciary committee. it's not entirely surprising they are here at the border in yuma, arizona. this is quickly becoming a very big focus of this house

republican majority, but not from a legislative perspective. instead, they are doing what democrats and republicans both have done for many years now, which is coming to the border to highlight the crisis, each side choicing issues they would like to focus on and taking it back to d.c. look no further than the fact this is a meeting of the judiciary committee where only republicans will be in attendance at this hearing. democrats say they're going to do their own trip in the coming weeks. it underscores the reality on capitol hill that even as the issue is so persistent, there is little to no agreement on what to do. in a divided congress that is not likely to change. the other reason we felt it was important to come with these

specific lawmakers, is the chairman of this committee jim jordan really represents the tip of the spear in the attempt to oust secretary mayorkas. now that republicans are in the majority and house, they are going to continue to push that narrative. i think it's important to underscore that this is an issue that regularly excites the republican base. we often talk about it here on this show about how important it is to republicans to keep their base engaged. from a legislating perspective, we're not really expecting anything out of this. >> what do you think? >> really important points she brought up. first of all, this has been a political issue for republicans for years. we always see right before elections, we see them talking on certain networks, talking

about caravans coming up and of course just the stupid comments about there's going to be a lep row si epidemic. they've been doing this, again, since 2016 and they've been losing elections every year since 2017. it's critical to understand this is not a winning issue for republicans unless you're in a district that if you're winning by 60% probably feeds the base, maybe gets some contributors out there. here's the bigger issue. right now the fact that republicans are going to the border and they're holding these hearings and they're not willing to do anything legislatively to actually have this pass just

shows it's more governing by gesture. there are a lot of issues, like health care for instance in 2010, an extraordinarily difficult issue to figure out how to negotiate that deal. that's why it took so long and barely passed. it's a really complex, complicated issue. this is not a complicated issue. republicans are stepping forward and just talking about border security. nancy mace and other republicans are saying we're not going to support a border security bill only. so republicans can't even get their own border security bill to pass in the house of representatives. the democrats haven't been as concerned about border security in the past. i think for political reasons they understand that's more important. but there is a deal that could be done that can get overwhelming support from the

american public that provides border security, daca relief, dreamer relief, that helps those that can help the high-tech industry to come in, those high-tech visas. so we make sure that jobs are not being exported. somebody comes over. they go to the best universities. i joke about these ivy league republicans. let's say they go to the best schools for tech and then they have to go home. what are they doing? they're creating jobs in new delhi instead of north carolina. it's just one of the dumber things that we do. there is a fix that republicans and democrats can put together that will be supported by the overwhelming majority of the american people. the question is will these

republicans, after they get all the gestures out, will they ever do that deal? unfortunately, i don't think they will. they would rather have the issue than making our borders more secure, helping our economy grow more and what lines up with what ronald reagan said for eight years about the importance of immigration to our growing economy. >> the most important thing you just said is they care more about the issue than the solution. they care more about running around with slogans and signs than actually doing something. they haven't won on this issue or others since 2017. it's 2023 right now. the republicans are like hot sa number of issues. this one may be harder to explain, but it is like women's health care, it's like guns.

look where the american people are and there is a bipartisan solution. they don't want it. >> you can go back to 2016 even when donald trump was running. you can go back to 2017 when he was talking about his most restrictive immigration plans. they were overwhelmingly unpopular. now we have a southern border that continues to be in crisis and that started when donald trump became president. i know republicans don't like to hear this. it's the truth. you can look at the trump administration's own numbers. illegal border crossings from mexico were at a 50-year low when barack obama left office. they started to spike when donald trump became president. they have continued to speak. it keeps getting worse. we need a solution.

i'm just hoping that republicans will step forward. i'm pretty sure you could find ten republicans in the senate that want to fix this problem. pretty darn sure you could get that bipartisan solution in the senate. i just don't know if that will ever happen in the house. sadly, i expect that as long as they think they're making political points over these gestures, they won't do it. again, this has been a losing issue for republicans in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022. maybe they try something different. maybe they actually pass a popular immigration reform plan and some of their members get rewarded for it. coming up, transportation secretary pete buttigieg is in ohio touring the site of the train derailment that spilled toxic chemicals in east palestine almost three weeks ago.

plus, three decades ago erin brockovich became an advocate. now she's using her platform to speak up for the residents of eastern palestine in the aftermath of that toxic train derailment. he aftermath of that toxic train derailment struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. proven, full-spectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may mean a life-threatening reaction,

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. just over half past the hour. transportation secretary pete buttigieg is in east palestine, ohio, this morning as the community there continues to push for transparency weeks after a train derailment exposed the town to toxic chemicals. joining us from east palestine, ohio, jessie kir sh. what is the latest there. >> reporter: we've already seen the transportation secretary at the derailment site expressing concern over current safety in the rail industry.

you can see this community is far from back to normal. we have crews working along and even in waterways that the governor of ohio says are still contaminated, all of this as we expect from within the hour an update from the ntsb, its preliminary report how this might have happened. emotions running high in east palestine. >> you burdened me. we were going to sell our house. our value went poof. it's norfolk's disaster, not a train derailment. i don't feel safe in this town now. you took it away from me. >> what i can do and what i will do is make it right. we're going to get the cleanup right. >> reporter: even with officials promising the municipal tap water and air in east palestine is safe, questions are still piling up. residents fear for their

livelihoods. >> i'm already losing business. >> reporter: the cdc says it's on the ground, looking into residents' lingering health concerns. >> officials say the air is safe. >> reporter: do you buy that? >> i don't buy it. i smell the same plastic smell. >> reporter: this small community is also quickly becoming a big political football. >> they're going to get a nice free meal. >> reporter: former president trump visiting wednesday, taking swipes at the biden administration. >> your goodness and perseverance were met with indifference and betrayal in some cases. they were intending to be absolutely nothing for you. >> reporter: the epa says it has ordered the railroad to do a cleanup and cover all expenses. the biden white house blaming mr. trump and republicans for loosening safety regulations during his time in office.

some residents here worry they could be facing adversity for generations. >> you can't dump that much stuff in soil and get away with it. >> reporter: now concerns are stretching well beyond ohio and neighboring pennsylvania. in texas, officials say they're aware that a local company in the houston area has been contracted to dispose of potentially dangerous water that is coming from the derailment site here in east palestine. officials in texas say they are aware of this and monitoring the situation closely and are in touch with experts. this is a concern for people in this community, in a neighboring state's community and across much of this country. >> absolutely. joining us now from east palestine is consumer advocate and environmental activist erin brockovich. tomorrow she'll be holding a

town hall in the city. it's great to have you on. back in 1996, you were a major part of uncovering water poisoning in hinckley, california. there was a lawsuit. ultimately your efforts led to the largest payout at that time for a toxic tort injury settlement in u.s. history. it was $333 million back in 1996. tell us what you're hearing from residents and what you hope to accomplish in east palestine. >> good morning. thank you for having me on. i've been hearing from community members since the train derailment happened starting early on the morning of the 4th and not only been monitoring what was going on from that time until this time. i have to tell you in the 30 years i've been doing this, i don't think i've ever seen anything so mishandled and such

lack of information coming to a community. i worry for them. i've been watching everything, i've been reading all of their e-mails. i hear their fear, their frustration. one thing i want to get across in our town hall, what their future holds for them. this isn't just a one moment situation and a sound bite. this is going to be decades of cleanup, decades of monitoring their health, decades of working in soil and vapor intrusion. it's frightening for them. but what i want them to know, what i've learned in community after community after dealing with these disasters for 30 years. your audio dropped out. >> i have a couple of questions. first of all, what was missed?

what was missed in terms of making sure the people of east palestine understood they were being heard? should they have been evacuated? should more have been physically done, or was it about making sure they were being communicated with and being heard effectively? >> it was immediately being communicated with, not only do i hear you, i see you, i acknowledge you. and yes, they evacuated them for a short period of time, but did they bring them home too soon? what i worry always gets missed is officials, agencies don't listen to what they are experiencing when they come back and they tell you they are still smelling things, their tongue tingles, their lips are turning blue, their children have coughs and terrible headaches and you're not listening to the very people on the ground that are being exposed and not further

looking into the situation or even saying to them we may need to evacuate again. tell them the truth, whether it hurts or they don't want to hear it. i've said this before and i want to say it again, they will handle the truth, because they can plan and be prepared for what's to come. what they can't handle is the lie and the not showing up and sounding an all-clear to protect your rear, yet they're still in jeopardy. >> i'm unsure whether the tap water in flint, michigan, is safe to drink even today and it was several years ago when that happened. and i'm not sure when the cleanup will be complete where you are standing this morning. i am sure of one thing. if this had happened in an

affluent american suburb, we wouldn't be talking about so much delay in tending to the problem by the federal government. is that your view? >> well, it certainly looks that way. i mean in most of the situations i've dealt with, i don't know if it's agency or the polluter themselves that think they might be undereducated. they might not know all the information, they think they can slide something by them. the communities will rise up. they know things. it really comes from a common sense place. i recall being back out in hinckley. and you're not a doctor, you're not a scientist, what do you know? you don't have to be anything but human to realize green water

is wrong, animals have died, fish have died and their symptoms and they're screaming from the rooftops and they still don't feel protected. that is the biggest problem. we continue to do the same thing in how we respond to these environmental emergencies over and over and over again, and they're not effective. we have to move forward in a better way and become proactive with these communities, prevent these disasters instead of being reactive when they happen. >> you obviously have a lot of experience with matters like these. what would be your advice right now to the people who live there, who live nearby in terms of short-term and long-term what they should be doing? should they be entering any sort of agreement with the railway company? how would you counsel them? >> do not, in my opinion, being

a human with them in a situation like them, don't sign anything and certainly don't sign anything from norfolk southern railroad. they're not your friend. i mean, right now they're the ones doing the testing. there should be independent testing. they're the ones running the show on their train derailment. by the way, i'm hearing a lot from the employees of the railroad. i'm hearing a lot and getting a lot of whistleblower information. look, this railroad had derailment zones on it and they knew it. this company runs a terrible corporate model. they refer to it as the precision scheduled railroading, which deeply cuts into maintenance, infrastructure and going out and finding where these spots are that they knew existed in this town and they continue to fail to do anything

about it. these are the kind of things people need to know going forward, that a bad corporate model, profit over people, not your friend, please don't sign anything. this is a situation we may take in this moment the municipal water is safe, but that's not the way it's going to be tomorrow. these chemicals are going to migrate through the system for decades. we have to talk about well water that is oftentimes unregulated. we're going to have to monitor the public health and welfare. maybe they should be having their blood drawn every six years because they're not going to show the signs of what's happened to them until into the future. we had this conversation even on 9/11. look where they are today. this is what happens in these environmental situations. you can't just say it's all safe

in the moment, because that's not what their future is going to be. >> what the people of east palestine are being told right now is extremely invalidating, just like the people who worked in the pit after 9/11, many who came down with cancer and other illnesses after being told it was just fine. when your gut, when your basic human brain told you, no, it wasn't, no, i feel like i need to wear a mask, no, i feel like i need to be wearing a gas mask. i met those people. i was down there and i saw it and i saw the disconnect between the epa and the testing and the reality that was in front of us. in closing, you're saying what everyone's feeling, absolutely. you've been through this experience of being invalidated by those who seemed smarter than you. what is your message to the

people of east palestine, especially as you get ready to hold a rally there tomorrow? >> tomorrow we're going to be there giving them so much information, again, about water, the chemicals, what the future could be. my message is be your own eyes and ears. don't let somebody from an agency or from norfolk railroad tell you what you're experiencing isn't real. it's a huge gaslight on these people. they are here. they lived it, they breathed it. they have to return to it. they're having symptomed but you completely disregard it. that is the thing that makes communities so mad. tell them the truth even if it's scary or hurtful about the future. they'll deal with that. what they can't deal with is you can't see them, you won't talk to them, you keep feeding them a

bunch of bs and they're scared. it's a horrible situation. for our agencies or anyone to be doing to our communities, they're here, they're living it, they're breathing it. pay attention to them. listen to them. they are the ones that should be controlling the narrative about what happened, not some agency or some polluter who's doing all the testing controlling the narrative. this happened to them. they need to be seen and heard. >> 100%. consumer advocate and environmental activist erin brockovich, i completely hear you. thank you for being in east palestine there representing really the people. thanks for being on this morning. thank you. coming up, help for teens struggling with mental health. it comes in response to an alarming report from the cdc that found nearly 60% of teenage girls experienced persistent

feelings of sadness or hopelessness. we're going to be joined by a yale psychology professor offering a well-being course for free next on "morning joe." a wr free next on "morning joe. lti-v, you may be missing a critical piece... preservision. preservision areds 2 contains the only clinically proven nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. preservision is backed by 20 years of clinical studies. so ask your doctor about adding preservision and fill in a missing piece of your plan. like i did with preservision. now with ocusorb better absorbing nutrients.

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there is new help this morning for those struggling with mental health issues. we've been reporting on a series of studies on the growing mental health crisis in this country, especially among teenagers. a new cdc report found teen girls across the board are experiencing unprecedented levels of hopelessness and suicidal thoughts and an increasing number of high school students overall are struggling with nearly 30% reporting challenges with mental health in the past month alone. to help combat this disturbing trend, an epidemic really, a professor of psychology at yale university is offering a free online course called the science of well-being for teens. the six-week study is designed to provide teens with a set of science-based strategies that they can use to reduce stress

and feel happier. joining us now is the creator of the course, dr. laurie santos. this is an incredible idea. i love that you've done it online so you have access to more teens and young adults and i'll tell you especially post-pandemic, i feel we are seeing an epidemic. is that too strong a word? >> no, i think when you have more than a third of teens reporting that they're feeling mentally unwell, you know, more than one in four saying that they're persistently sad and hopeless, and more than one in five saying they're seriously considering suicide, we're dealing with a national crisis in our young people today. we really need solutions that they can use to start feeling better, to reduce all this depression and anxiety and stress. >> so listen, we can look at causes. we've talked about social media. we've talked about the pandemic. but let's talk today about solutions so people have something they can take away from this segment because chances are people watching

right now know somebody who is struggling. what does your course teach about basic wellness? what are some of the key maybe tips or advice you can offer right here? >> we start with this idea that we often get happiness in what -- we're constantly going for more money, more grades, more likes on social media. we talk about a lot about what are the things that we really can do to promote well-being. we focus on changing behaviors. can you get a little bit more social connection. can you focus on getting more sleep? can you actually become a little bit more other oriented, think about doing for others rather than being so individualistic. these are simple hacks we can engage with in our behaviors to feel better. it's not just our behaviors. there's also lots of evidence that we can change our thought patterns to feel better. we spend a lot of time on strategies we can use to feel a little bit less self-critical

and how you can get out of thought spirals. what are the ways you can change your emotions to feel better? these are all practical hacks that teens can engage in at all times, and especially when they're feeling stressed or anxious? >> negative thought patterns can lead to negative behavior and habits that show the anxiety that you can see on a young person's face or see in their behavior. how do you change thought patterns, though? >> well, one of the key insights that we've had from psychological research over the last few decades, is that even though our thoughts feel like us, we can change them around. we can think about i'm having this thought pattern. do i really believe this? this is a general principle. you don't have to be in therapy to start hacking your thought patterns. you can start paying attention to when you're hearing that self-critical voice. when you tell yourself, you suck, i should have done something differently. you can notice that pattern and say hey, that's that voice again.

i can challenge that, maybe i could have done this. what's a way i can talk to myself like a kind friend so i can be problem solving but in a kind way. >> how do i talk to myself like a kind friend. so there's a teenager right now rolling their eyes going right, what does thatoolike? how do they do that? >> yeah, well the simple thing is first to start noticing. you need to start noticing those thought patterns. i think this is something a lot of teens can do well. if you're listening to this thing, i'm super self-critical. you're already at step one. you've noticed and recognized these patterns. the key is you have to engage differently. you can ask yourself the question, how would i tell my best friend about this. if my best friend was having a tough time with homework, how would i help them, i wouldn't say you suck. you're so stupid, what can we do to problem solve on this. what can we do to get curious? those are the kinds of things we can do to be a little bit more self-compassionate. >> excellent, well done. you can find the science of well being for teens at coursera.org.

you can see it on the screen. if you know someone experiencing a mental health crisis, please call the suicide and crisis lifeline. it's 988. and dr. santos, thank you very, very much for what you're doing. we really appreciate it. we just have a few moments left, jonathan lemire, what are you looking at today? >> i actually think it's important to stay on the topic of mental health. the more we talk about it the better. we obviously had a united states senator just recently reveal he's suffering from real mental health challenges and seeking e help at a hospital. here with teens post-pandemic, the influence of cell phone and social media, it is a major, major crisis moment. i think it's important to talk about it as much as possible. >> yeah, you know, i was thinking during your conversation with dr. santos that if you're a 16 or 17-year-old teenage girl or

teenage boy even, you at 12, 13, or 14 when the isolation of the pandemic was created and what you missed there was socialization. what you got there was a feeling of loneliness, and i think in too many cases, too many cases indeed, your best friend became your iphone. you began talking to it and linking yourself to an outer world and lost a little bit of reality, and i think that might be involved in sadly what we just heard from dr. santos. >> i predict we're going to have incredible, incredible data about the negative impact of the iphone coming in the years to come and how it changed a generation. that does it for us this morning, make sure you watch joe's special tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern, war in ukraine: one year later. thank you for joining us this morning. lindsey reiser picking up the coverage after a quick final break. verage after a quick final break. can help your business get a payroll tax refund, even if you got ppp

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good thursday morning, i'm lindsey reiser at msnbc headquarters in new york. right now we're keeping our eyes on a courtroom in south carolina. disbarred attorney alex murdaugh will take the stand in his double murder trial and it could happen any moment now. this was the scene outside the courthouse this morning as a long line of folks streamed in to hear his system. we're going to bring it to you as soon as it happens. also right now, shock and