kennel. when i got there, paw paw wasn't standing in the kennel. >> he wasn't in the kennel anymore? >> he wasn't in the kennel, like he is in the video. >> right. >> he's probably -- i don't know exactly, but i know he wasn't in the kennel. he was, like in the driveway, he was fooling with cash, he was in the driveway, but, like, close to the kennel, but not in the kennel, like he is in the video. >> so the video happened after that? according to you? >> video happened after i got -- >> when you first saw paul, you say you weren't in the kennel, when did the video happen? >> i believe that to be the case. >> after you arrived, correct? >> yes. >> and -- >> very shortly after i arrived, but after i arrived. >> and did you tell maggie at that time that you were going to go to alameda? >> i did not.

>> did you discuss it at all? according to these new facts you're testifying to? >> i don't believe so. >> did you have any conversation with her? >> oh, yeah. >> had you had a conversation -- did you have a conversation with paul about the dogs, about cash's tail prior to going down there? >> prior to going down there? i don't -- did i have a conversation with paul about cash -- >> about cash and some problem with his tail prior to going down there. did you have any knowledge of that prior to going down there? >> i'm not sure. as i sit here today, i don't recall that, but i don't -- i don't think so. >> when you first arrived in the golf cart, where did you pull up to? >> i pulled up right where maggie was. >> which is where? >> she was standing in the spot where she could see in between

the chicken coop and the storage room of the kennels. where the dogs were back up in those pines behind the kennels to the left of the chicken coop. >> and what did you do after that? >> i went back to the house. >> i mean, did you -- you pulled up, you get out of the golf cart? >> no, when i pulled up, i stayed on the golf cart. >> how long did you stay on the golf cart? >> however long i was down there. >> the entire time? >> no, i got off to take the chicken from bubba. >> how long were you down there before you took the chicken off the dog? >> very short time. >> like what? >> couple minutes. >> and what were you doing during the couple minutes before you took care of bubba?

>> i do know that maggie was very concerned about paw paw, and -- >> you remember a lot of details about all these new facts, but you don't remember what you talked about? >> i don't remember the exact details of what we talked about. i believe that at that time we may have talked about paw paw. but i'm not certain. >> were you withdrawing at this time? >> at this time, no, sir. >> you weren't withdrawing at all? >> no. i mean, i would only withdraw when i didn't have pills. >> and you're saying you had pills? >> yes. >> down there for a couple of minutes, i think you said now, before you get off the golf

cart? >> about, yes, sir. >> all right. >> and where do you go at that point? >> i take the chicken from bubba. >> okay, so you get up. >> well, i mean, bubba's -- you know, bubba's come out there with this chicken. he's showing us, hey, i caught this chicken. and i take the chicken from bubba. >> he came to the golf cart? >> he came up to maggie and i, which i was on the golf cart, he's by the golf cart. he's not coming to the golf cart, but he's coming to us. >> is this during the kennel video or after the kennel video? >> no, you hear maggie say he's got a chicken. that's what she's talking about is bubba caught the chicken. >> all right. so is the kennel video still going on before you get the chicken? you heard it, correct? you heard it in this courtroom. >> i don't know exactly. i don't know exactly, but in close timing to bubba coming out

of the woods with the chicken, i got up and took the chicken from him. >> okay. >> let me ask you this, were the dogs barking and carrying on or going out into the woods or acting like they sensed somebody was around that they didn't know? >> were the dogs acting like there was somebody they didn't know? >> yeah. like dogs do. >> no. >> no, they weren't. >> there was nobody. >> there was nobody -- >> around that the dogs didn't know. >> dogs didn't to your indication sense anything out of the ordinary. they were just chasing after the guinea? >> there was nobody else around. >> good. >> for them to sense. >> you heard the kennel video. would you agree with me it lasts for about 50 seconds? >> i agree with that. >> so, it would have ended around 8:45 and 45 seconds. would you agree with that?

>> i do agree with that. >> did you have the chicken out of bubba's mouth at the end of the kennel video or did it take longer than that? >> you know, i can't remember exactly when in the video he came up with the chicken, but i would have had to -- i would have had the chicken out of his mouth within ten, 15 seconds of maggie saying he's got a chicken. >> all right. >> and so then what did you do? >> i put the chicken up. >> how long did that take? did you get out of the golf cart to do that? >> i did. >> you walked to where it was? >> yeah, a few feet, but i did that, yes. >> so how long did that take? we're at 8:46 now. how long did that take? >> seconds. >> just seconds? all right. what did you do after that? >> got back on the golf cart. >> and what did you do after that? >> i left.

>> you left? on the golf cart and left. >> that's what i was getting ready to say. i did get on the golf cart and leave that second? probably not. did i get on the golf cart and leave very quickly after that? yeah, i did. >> you said i got out of there. >> i did. >> why did you get out of there so quick, mr. murdaugh? >> it was chaotic, it was hot and i was getting ready to do exactly what i didn't want to do. >> you were getting ready to do what you didn't want to do? >> that's correct. i was getting ready to sweat, getting ready to work, i wanted to go back to the air conditioner. >> did you say good-bye? according to your new story? >> did i say good-bye? >> yeah. did you talk to them at all or did you just get the chicken, put it on there, and take off? >> i wouldn't have just gone off. i would have said i'm leaving. >> okay. >> did i say good-bye, bye?

there would have been some -- there would have been some exchange. i'm not staying here. >> what was that exchange? you had such a photographic memory about the new stories, what happened here? >> that's not -- i can't tell you the exact words. >> you don't remember your conversation after you put that chicken up? did you talk about the chicken? >> no. i don't think we did. >> did you talk with paul about cash's tail? >> after the chicken? >> yeah. >> no. i know i didn't do that. >> did you tell maggie i'm going to go check on him? >> at that point, no, i don't -- i don't think i did. >> did you tell maggie, it is hot out here, i think i'll go back? >> i certainly would have said something to that effect. >> all right. so, unlike everything else with the new story, you just can't recall what that would have been? >> well, you know, i mean, you're making that categorization. i think there is other things about that that i can't

remember, but if the question is can i remember exactly what words i used when i gave maggie some salutation when i'm leaving, i can't tell you what those were. but it would have been something to the effect of, i'm leaving. >> all right. okay. but you would concede there was at least some conversation that you wouldn't have just put the chicken on there and jumped -- ran back to the golf cart and taken off? >> without talking to maggie, i never would have done that. >> so, well, let's say a minute? does that sound about right? >> a minute for what? >> to have just whatever interaction it took for you to then -- according to your new story drive back to -- >> no, sir. it wouldn't have taken a minute. it would have been i'm leaving. i'll see you in a minute. >> okay. so 30 seconds? >> i don't think it would have taken 30 seconds, but i mean, i'm fine with you using whatever time you want to apply. >> i'm just asking about real

life here and how people interact with one another, mr. murdaugh. i mean, so what you're telling this jury, you're fuzzy on these kind of details is that you jetted down there, you dealt with the chicken and jetted right back? >> no, sir. no, sir. i didn't jet down there and i didn't jet back. i got up after maggie asked me to leave, after maggie asked me to go with her and i did it. i got up, i went and got on the golf cart, i drove down there, i did what i did, i said i'm leaving or something to those words, and i went back. >> all right. if it is about 8:46, if the kennel video ends at 8:45:45 and it is about 8:46, will you at least concede maybe it was about a minute before you got on that golf cart and headed back, just reasonable real life? >> maybe. i mean, i don't think it was that long, but maybe, sure.

>> all right, so -- >> but i don't think it was that long. >> all right, how long -- >> exactly what i thought was going to be going on at the kennel, why i didn't want to go there to begin with, is exactly what was going on and i left. >> i get that. are these also convenient facts in your new story that have to fit with the timeline now that that evidence has been thrown in your face? >> no, sir. >> does that sound like real life to you, that you jet down there and jet back, mr. murdaugh? >> i just told you, i didn't get on my golf cart and jet down there, i didn't jet back. hang on -- >> just answer before another question is presented. >> yes, sir. >> i'm answering your question. >> are you responding to the last question? >> yes, sir. i'm responding to your question and you're using words that i'm not using. and that's your categorization.

>> i'm entitled to ask my questions to you, sir? >> absolutely. >> okay. >> and i'm going to answer them. all i'm saying is i'm taking issue with the manner in which you're changing what i'm saying and -- >> you disagree this is a new story? you disagree with that characterization? >> yes. this is the first time that this is being told openly. >> and you disagree to my characterization that you got a photographic memory about the details that have to fit now that you know the -- these facts, but you're fuzzy on the other stuff that complicates that. you disagree with that? >> i do disagree with that. i think that i -- i think that i have a good memory about a lot of things on this. >> how about this, we got the kennel video ending at 8:45:45, so just to take care of the chicken, put it up, i was going to say 8:47, but somewhere

around there, i this think you said somewhere around there, is that fair? to do whatever you need to do and get on the cart before you head back? >> the kennel video ended at 8:45. >> and 45 seconds. >> 8:46. it could have been 8:47 before i left out of there. >> okay. >> i think it was sooner than that, but it could have been. >> that's 60 seconds, 75 seconds, correct? after it ends? >> if it ends at 8:45:45, it is a minute and 15 seconds. >> you characterized it yesterday, i got out of there, right? >> that is exactly what i did. >> so if we're at 8:47, i think you said giving you the benefit of the doubt, it is two minutes to get up, back to the house, correct? >> approximately. >> and when you got back to the house, where did you park the golf cart? >> same place i had gotten it from, right where mark ball testified it was.

>> all right. and what door did you go in? >> i would have gone in the front door. >> and if you left around 8:47, and it took about two minutes to get up to the house, what time would that make it, mr. murdaugh? >> if i left at 8:47, and if it took me two minutes, that would make it 8:49. >> 8:49. and you testified you went on inside and the tv is on, right? >> i did go inside and the tv was on. >> okay. and you laid down, is that right? >> i did. >> before you said you had been napping for an hour or so, napping that entire time, but now you laid down on the couch. >> that's correct. >> all right. and maybe dozed for a second?

>> maybe. >> according to your new story? how long did you doze? >> if i dozed, extremely short time. >> extremely short time. you would agree with me at 9:02, you're up and moving. according to the data. >> i agree that according to that data my phone is recording steps at whatever time it is, 9:02 something. >> how long did it take you, if you're at the house at 8:49, how long before you went and laid on the couch? >> i would have gone straight to the couch probably. i may have gone by the sink or, you know, i may have gotten a spit cup, but -- it would have been basically straight to the couch. >> straight to the couch? >> yes, sir. >> and you're telling this jury that that's what happened, and you were back at the house at 8:49 and you laid down on the

couch and dozed for a second and then up with more steps in a shorter time period than you had done all day? >> your number is 8:49. what i'm telling this jury is that i went down there and when i took that chicken from bubba, i would have said something to mags, got back on that golf cart, and i drove back to my house. after getting back to my house, i went inside, and in short order i went to the couch. that's what i'm telling this jury. >> anywhere else in the house? >> mr. waters, i can't tell you specifically about that. i don't think so. but i may have. >> did you have that tan blackout and 12 gauge shotgun on the golf cart when you drove down there? >> no. >> you didn't? >> no. >> did you see them when you were down there? >> no. >> no.

so we got you back around 8:49 and leaving at 9:02, correct? and you didn't see any weapons down there. you just happened to be back there, you didn't hear anything at all. did you hear anything at all, mr. murdaugh, during that time period? >> no, i did not. >> you didn't? didn't you tell law enforcement that you thought you heard them pull up and, didn't you tell law enforcement that? >> i did think they pulled up. >> so that -- you did think that? >> yes. >> so now you're saying there was a car pulling up? >> no. >> you didn't testify to that yesterday, did you, in your new version of events that -- >> no, i don't -- >> mr. waters, i don't believe there was a car pulling up. >> that's what you told law enforcement, didn't you? >> no, i told law enforcement that i thought they had pulled up. >> but you're saying you couldn't hear blackout shots supposedly, but you could hear that, correct? >> i didn't say i couldn't hear blackout shots, but i'm saying i thought when i got up from taking a nap, if i took a nap,

but when i got up from laying down, as i was getting ready to go to my mom's, there was a point in time where i thought maggie and paul had come back. >> you also told them that you thought you heard a wild cat or maybe it was a person or something like that as well? >> no. that's not what i said. >> what did you say then? >> i said when i went outside, that there is a house cat that has gone wild and he hangs around, he goes from hanging around the shop, goes from hanging around the house, different times. and there will be times you don't see him. and he had been around the house. and when i went outside, i believe that cat was over there. >> and you made a point of mentioning that to law enforcement. >> i never thought it was a person. >> you made a point of mentioning that to law enforcement, correct? >> in the course of discussing

it, i did tell them that. >> you never told them all this new story that you constructed in light of this trial, correct? >> i did not tell them that i went to the kennel. i lied about that. >> and at the same time, you also looked at this jury and tried to tell them that you had been cooperative in this investigation. >> other than lying to them about going to the kennel, i was cooperative in every aspect of this investigation. >> very cooperative except for maybe the most important fact of all that you were at the murder scene with the victims just minutes before they died. right? >> i did not tell them that i went to the kennel. >> take a break at this time for about 15 minutes. talking to the jury.

please go to the jury room, please do not discuss the case. >> and as we see that there is a 15-minute break in this process in south carolina. alex murdaugh has been testifying about the night of the alleged murder of his wife and son. there is a 15-minute break. we will, of course, continue to monitor this situation. we have been listening to this double murder trial in south carolina, it grabbed national attention. just moments ago, former attorney alex murdaugh took the stand, this morning, in day two in his own defense, making him the star witness in his own trial. today murdaugh detailed his struggles with drug addiction, and admitted to stealing millions of dollars from clients in the past.

murdaugh has continued to insist that he did not kill his wife and son. and just as the trial went to a break, there was more detail on exactly where he was and what he was doing at the time of the murder. joining us now is nbc news correspondent catie beck. and nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett. so, there was so much information that is coming out, these stories, which according to the prosecution are changing now. tell us about the prosecution's strategy in the courtroom so far. >> well, i think finally the prosecution is getting to the heart of the case. they're getting to the murders. they spent a lot of time on financials. they spent a lot of time setting up the fact that he was a privileged liar and a drug user and all of these other things that have already been heard in testimony. what they needed to accomplish

in cross examination was to pick apart that new timeline that alex murdaugh came up with yesterday on the stand, and that, you know, it is whether the jury believes that or not. and what they're doing right now is finding lots of threads, details, things he said and unsaid about where he was in that timeline. so, i actually think in terms of what is difficult, tough questions for murdaugh to answer, they're happening right now on the stand. i think some people were wondering yesterday why we didn't get right to this, right away. because it certainly does sort of put some doubt out there that this story is believable, that he was at this kennel just moments before he says someone else came in and did this crime. that is tough to ration in your head. and on the stand right now, so far, he has been a little bit unsteady. yesterday was very calm, very confident as he on direct examination relayed the sort of new set of facts now being

questioned at very specific detail. we're talking in seconds, where were you at this second, how long did it take, that has been difficult for him to defend and he doesn't seem nearly as confident in relaying those facts at this point. keep in mind, the defense is going to have a rebuttal after this and we'll see what they come up with to soften the blow of what is happening now. but this is certainly the first time on cross examination that we have seen prosecutors, i think, make some real strides in terms of getting alex murdaugh off. >> there was so much of the prosecution's day yesterday and certainly through this morning of establishing that he is a pathological liar in many ways, that he himself admitted to lying to his clients, family members, as he stole millions of dollars, and then it was this last minute turn now on, well, wait, you also lied about where

you were the night, minute by minute, of those murders. laura, what is your reaction to what we heard so far? >> it is only within the last 15 minutes that we are finally at long last getting to the heart of this case. this is somebody who for the better part of 20 months had a totally different story up until yesterday and now we're finally starting to see part of that story unravel. the prosecution spent part of the morning, again, bouncing back and forth on some of the alleged financial crimes, which this defendant has all but admitted he has apologized for, he has said i know i did them wrong, he said it over and over again, trying to speed things up to no avail and the prosecution seemed dead set at trying to focus on that and trying to emphasize for this jury how many lies he told. and you can see why you would want to do that. given the bombshell of yesterday, we were all sitting around wondering when are we going to get back to that. in the last 15 minutes, that's

what you have seen this prosecutor claim waters tried to do is focus on the timeline here, since it is so key to know he was actually at the scene of the crime just minutes before everyone agrees these killings took place. one of the key pieces here that i queued in on is the idea they're in the dog kennel areas and the dogs are barking and chasing different birds and heard alex murdaugh provide a lot of details on that, but once it gets to what happens after you left, that's where things curiously get sort of murky. and the prosecutor raised the idea that if perhaps this was somebody else that the dogs weren't familiar with, they would have been agitated and he gets to admit the dogs were not agitated. they were calm. he gets him to admit when he went back to the house he didn't hear anything. if someone else had killed his family members, he would have heard something. he says things like, i think i was taking a nap. presumably you would be able to remember that, if you can remember so many details at the level of granularity like what kind of chicken the dog had in

his mouth, but you can't remember if you took a nap, it is those kinds of questions that i think you're going to see back and forth now that we're really getting into it. >> and just wondering, clearly murdaugh has a plan and he's been talking, you any, as you say, to detailed about all kinds of things. but this bombshell you talk about, laura, let's, if folks haven't been keeping a minute by minute watch on this, that bombshell, which is really essentially murdaugh changing the story about where he was and what he was doing, the exact night of the murders. >> minutes before. for 20 months, the story was i did not go down to the kennels that night, where the murders took place. and only yesterday does he now say, oh, no, actually i did go down, i went down briefly, i took a chicken out of the dog's mouth, and then i got out of there. that's his story. he now says he went back to the house, after leaving his family members there, and then he

doesn't really know what happened after that. he says he laid down, he thinks he may or may not have taken a nap, but he's very murky on the details there and that's the area where the prosecutors are going to exploit next. >> so, talk to us about the mood and what has been going on there, where you are. >> well, i think yesterday because so much of the day was spent in the emotional direct examination where he can sort of just tell his story, in his folksy way, adding in all of his details about things he did with his son and how he felt about his wife, i think the jury certainly had some moments where they looked sympathetic. we know that certain jurors were shedding tears, other jurors were pushing a tissue box toward murdaugh when he was getting upset. those are signs they're hearing what he's saying and feeling for him. i don't know that they're going to have those kinds of reactions with this testimony. these are hard hitting questions and it is hard for him to give direct answers. and i think it does show how

different these two versions of the story are. if you believe that he forgot to tell investigators he took a shower, kind of a critical detail. he forgot to -- can't remember as laura said, he said if i took a nap, those were his words on the stand, if i took a nap, i might have -- at this point it is -- in the story, like she said, if you're going to be recalling very specific details, and forgetting big ones, you know this jury at some point may be wondering exactly how much of this story they can believe. this is definitely a day where i think the defense will take every bit of that rebuttal to try and score some points with the jury back in the direction of sympathy. we can expect that on that they will definitely bring up a lot of points raised today. >> catie beck and laura jarrett, thank you so very much. we're going to try to sneak in a quick break. up next, live to kyiv to see how ukraine has changed in the years since russia's invasion.

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south carolina, alex murdaugh. there is a couple of minute break. we will bring you that back when it begins. i want to talk about today, today in ukraine, the russian invasion has entered its second year with no sign of fighting ending anytime soon. a war that has taken a huge toll on the people of ukraine. i want to talk about this with nbc news correspondent erin mclaughlin in kyiv, retired general barry mccaffrey, helene cooper, msnbc contributor, and also with us from kyiv co-founder and executive director of the anticorruption action center. how has life changed as a result of this war, one year in? >> unbelievable, but people adjusted. unfortunately people can adjust even to war. and a lot of people still want to return back home from abroad. and i just came yesterday from

poland, now i'm in kyiv. but every single ukrainian has somebody either family member or friend who is fighting. a family member or friend who was killed. every family who has kids witnessed how to study in the bomb shelter, how to study online without electricity. so, basically ukraine is not in good shape, we are fighting, but we need the will of our partners including especially in america to help us not as long as it takes until all people in ukraine will die, or will leave ukraine, but as long as it takes for us to wait. and for that i'm very now -- we need modern fighter jets, f-16, i was expecting president biden to come to ukraine, i was very happy with that, but i hope he

will tell the u.s. is committed to help ukraine win and he will announce approval of f-16 fighter jets to ukraine. unfortunately this is not happening. and i'm not sure whether we will last for more than one year. >> so, general, let's talk about that. because other than not providing jets, the united states, its allies in the west, have given ukraine much -- to the tune of billions of dollars, aid, but, general, looking back at this year, there is so much that the ukrainians have accomplished by defending their country against overwhelming odds and even overwhelming numbers. general, how important is something like planes to ukraine right now? >> well, look, first of all, let me focus on the comment just made that giving as long as it takes versus what they need to win. that's a really central point to what this discussion is all about. we have provided almost $100

billion. it is legitimate that the biden administration's concerned about escalation, about the use of tactical nuclear weapons, those are all responsibilities that the white house has to take into account. having said that, russia's lost on a strategic level. they'll never get all of ukraine. they might end up drawing nato directly into the fight at some point, but they'll never get all of ukraine. but in a tactical operational level, ukrainians cannot see their country get destroyed over time and sustain more than 100,000 casualties already, military. we need to provide them m-1 tanks or leopard 2s, who cares, f-16s, lethal drones, we need to get them a longer range deep strike artillery and it can't be -- the secretary of the army

announced this morning the m-1 tanks won't get to ukraine until possibly next year. unacceptable. we have to ramp this thing up and nato needs to shoulder its responsibility more aggressively than it is. >> and, erin, you covered that conflict now for this year. what do you see, you know, as you're back there and this country marks one year of this extraordinary defense. what do you see? >> well, in my conversations with senior ukrainian advisers to the government here in kyiv this past week, there is a real sense of confidence and conviction. they see this as a window of opportunity for them, essentially speaking to one adviser, just earlier today, what happened is both sides are running out of ammunition. and they see this as an opportunity if ukraine is able to get ammunition, more weapons

from ukraine's allies, from the united states, the united states just this week pledging to send more ammunition and more weapons, they believe there is a window of opportunity that there could be some sort of turning point reached in the coming months, perhaps by the end of spring. that being said, the mood on the front lines is very grim. ukrainian soldiers are extremely frustrated and i was speaking to one soldier in bakhmut who is with the special forces this week, and he was telling me that he's preparing for a long war. take a listen. >> i think the people in my country change and i understand that the war will be big time, yeah. i understand this is not for year or even two years and i understand that we must to find a way how to live in this new

reality. >> now, in terms of those fighter jets, senior adviser telling me they're in negotiations with the united states on potentially providing fighter jets and he believes -- he's confident that ultimately the united states will provide fighter jets to ukraine. the question in his mind is when because from the ukrainian standpoint on this battlefield, time is of the essence. >> erin mclaughlin, general mccaffrey, and helene cooper which i right now i can't get to you, but please stay with us, we have to go back be to the trial in south carolina, the murder trial, alex murdaugh is resuming his testimony. i thank you all for being with us this morning. >> i remind everyone in the courtroom that there is to be no reaction to the testimony, no

jeers, cheers, no reaction at all by anyone in the courtroom. you may bring in the jury. >> -- before the jury comes in. >> there will be an opportunity to put some -- something on the record. if it is regarding an objection, it can be done later. >> yes, sir.

>> the courtroom, as soon as they are seated, the cross examination of alex murdaugh will continue. >> the jury is present. >> thank you. you may proceed. >> thank you, your honor. >> when you pick up that

chicken, was there any blood on it? >> i don't believe so. >> did you wash your hands at all? >> at that point in time? i don't believe that i did. >> when you say you were there, you said maggie was nearby you, is that correct? >> right by me. >> was she messing with the hose at all? >> at that time, no. she was not. >> did she mess with it the entire time you were there according to your new facts today? >> well, i was there, she did not touch -- she was not fooling with the hose at all. >> all right.

i'm going to put up on the screen state's 519, the condensed timeline. if i could have the computer input, please? condensed timeline, mr. griffin. can you see that up there, mr. murdaugh? >> yes. >> all right. i'm on page five. do you see that there?

>> on my screen? >> yes. >> i do see that. >> would you agree with me that it reflects no cell tower activity on your phone from 6:52 to 9:04? >> i do agree with that. >> let me ask you this, mr. murdaugh, did you take your phone with you down to the kennels, according to the new facts that you're testifying to yesterday and today? >> i must not have. >> you must not have? >> if this is accurate, no sir. >> is that typical for you? >> sure it is. absolutely. >> okay. tell me why. >> if and when i'm going -- now, it would be unusual if i was going out for any extended period of time, if i was going -- even on the property, if i was going somewhere for an extended period of time i would usually have my phone, but for me to go, knowing i'm going to the kennel and coming right back, that's not unusual at all.

you heard the testimony about the service out there the service is table. you have to be in a particular spot. and you to find a spot. >> so the answer is you don't know whether or not you took it down there? >> i believe i didn't based on this data. >> unlike the photographic memory about other things, you don't know about whether or not you had your phone on you? >> i never claimed to have a photographic memory, but i do not specifically remember if i had my phone that night. i do not dispute it based on these -- on this data and that's not unusual for me. >> just like you don't remember according to your new story the last conversation you had with maggie. >> no, i remember -- i remember having my last conversation with maggie. >> looking at this screen, you have the map up there on page 6, and it shows you arriving back

at moselle at 6:42? you don't dispute that now, is that correct? >> no. that's what this data appears to show. >> and looking at the data, moving on to page 7, you have paul arriving about 7:04, is that correct? you don't have any reason to dispute that? >> well, that's what it says he arrives at moselle road, the address of the shop, the house is 4157. i believe that paul actually got there a little bit before that, but i think that's approximately accurate. i think paul got there a little bit closer to 7:00. >> all right. >> you would agree that's the earliest data point that

reflects his presence in moselle. >> if that's what the records show? you don't dispute that? >> i don't dispute that -- if that's the earliest data point. but, again, i believe he got there a little bit earlier. and i tried to look at his records to see if i could -- if that could be refuted, and i believe he got there a little closer to 7:00 or a little bit before 7:00. >> you looked at these records a lot before you had your testimony yesterday and today, didn't you, mr. murdaugh? >> i looked at these records other than the onstar records that just came when they were provided to me. sure i looked at them. >> right here, we have some steps on your phone, 29 steps. and then down at the bottom, we have 89 steps. is that consistent with you and paul together on the property? >> i mean, sure, we would go to different locations on the

property, sometimes we would get out, sometimes we wouldn't, we would get out and walk around, we would look at stuff, we would do things. for example, he saw me messing with the tree. there would be other things may get out and look at a feeder, other ones we look at hog signs, where hogs are rooting. it would be perfectly consistent with what paw paw and i were doing that day. >> and 8:05 to 8:09, would you agree that's the last steps recorded on your phone before 9:02 when you became a very busy beaver. >> if that's what these records show. i see i took steps, as the records show, i took steps between 8:05 and 8:09. >> would you concede then that you're at the house around 8:09?

>> i would have thought so, yes. >> okay. and you said paul was already back at that point? >> no. i said just the opposite. >> when did he get there? >> are you talking about when i left the shop and went to the house? when maggie was there? >> yes. before you ate dinner. >> as i said earlier, paul and i were at the shop, maggie got home, i left paul at the shop, and i went to the house. i think you were saying that i said i met paul at the house and that's incorrect. >> paul was still down at the shop when you were at the house, correct in. >> when i first went to the house, paul was still at the shop, i believe. >> was maggie there when you arrived at the house? >> yes, i believe she was. >> and 8:09 is the last steps you have on this phone before 9:02, correct? >> that's what the data shows.

>> looking now at page 15, i'm sorry, page 14, your steps that you say when you got to the house, 8:09 and paul was still down at the shop, but don't these records reflect that paul is pinging with gps data at the house at 8:08? >> this record appears to show paul at the house at 8:08. >> all right. >> so those records don't fit with your new story that you testified yesterday and today, is is that correct? >> no, i don't believe even right now that's right. i'm not saying -- you are taking 8:09 and saying that i'm at the house. that may or may not be right. what i'm saying is that when

maggie came through, i left. and i believe that paul stayed at the shop. did paul come right behind me? i'm not sure. when i left him, i believe that -- when i left to go to the house, i believe paul stayed at the shop for a minute. >> when you got to the house, did you put your phone down? >> i'm sure i did. >> did you put it in the car, in the suburban? >> did i put it -- >> when you got back to the house, did you put it in the suburban? was the suburban out front? >> it would have been wherever i parked it. >> which is where? >> i believe on the side. >> okay. did you put your phone in the suburban? >> at that time? >> mm-hmm. >> where did you put it? >> i'm not sure. when i went in the house, i'm not sure where i put my phone. i would think i put it down somewhere probably by the couch.

>> didn't you testify yesterday when you were being asked by your lawyer about that pause at almeda when you were leaving and you had a specific recollection of your phone had fallen down and had you to pick it up? but you don't remember what you did with your phone at this point? >> those are two different things. i'm coming in the house and i put my phone down, i don't have a routine spot i put it in on this corner or right there. i would assume that when i went in the house, i put it somewhere either on the table you go by going to the couch. i may have taken it to the bathroom. when i took a shower. it may have taken me a few minutes to go to the shower. i can't tell you exactly where i put it. >> that's a specific recollection when you need it to

try to make the new story that everyone is hearing yesterday and today with the data, correct? you are fuzzy on more important things, aren't you? >> which question? i will answer the first one first. i don't believe that's convenient. i disagree with your categorization of the description. >> but you remember the console story, but you don't remember where you put your phone, whether you took it to the kennel, whether you put it in the suburban? don't remember that but you remember that console story, correct? >> i don't remember the console story. in that suburban -- it's not the first time it happened. when that phone got down there, had you to go to great efforts to get it out. you couldn't just reach over and get it out.

you say when you got to the house maggie was there? >> yes. >> your last steps were at 8:09. >> that's what you saw when my -- this data recorded my last steps. as you heard this testimony, too, you know, that's not a precise -- that's not a precise -- you heard the testimony. you know what it is. >> how did you get back to the house? remind us. >> from the shop? >> yeah. >> i went in the white pickup truck. >> okay. when you got at the house, where did you go? >> we have discussed this. i took a shower. whether i did things for a moment before i went to the shower -- i'm sure i talked to maggie, because she had been gone. if she came through thekennel, i believe she did, we only talked briefly. i would have talked to her. i would have quickly gone to take a shower.

>> over to page 16. you agree with me that the data reflects maggie starts logging steps and her phone disconnecting from the mercedes around 8:17. correct? >> i agree at 8:17 her phone ends connection to her mercedes. >> and starts logging steps? >> i don't see that but i don't dispute it. >> you see the purple line i'm talking about, it disconnecting from the mercedes? >> yeah, i see it. 8:17 her phone starts logging steps. i agree with that. >> would you concede that appears to be when she arrived? >> no, i don't believe that's had she arrived. it was very normal for maggie when she's driving to jump out

of the car, run inside, go to the bathroom, do things and then either send me or paul or buster or go back to her car herself and unplug her phone. i agree that's when her phone is unplugged. i believe maggie got to the house before that. that's the whole reason why paul and i went to the house. >> okay. you are saying paul arrived after maggie? is that what you are saying? at the house? >> i believe so, yes, sir. that's what i recall. and paul arrived at the house after i arrived at the house, i believe. and if paul got to the house

around about that same time, he wasn't inside with maggie and i -- >> at 8:08? if paul got -- he wasn't inside with maggie and you? is that what you said? mr. murdaugh, is that what you said? >> sir? >> you said if paul got to the house prior to that, he wasn't inside with you and maggie? >> i'm saying he was not inside when i went to get in the shower. >> okay. again, looking back at this data point, 8:08, we see a blue dot in the middle of the house. >> that's what these records show. it also shows that circle that folks testified to what the range of -- >> absolutely. >> what it could be within. it clearly --

>> look at that circle. look what's in the middle of the circle. almost like somebody drew a circle around the house. don't you agree? >> i do. but also is where you would park a truck if you pulled up. i'm not saying that he wasn't in the house. at some point in time there. when i went to get in the shower, he wasn't in the house. he very easily could have been there and been parked in the yard. >> do you agree at the bottom of page 16 that about 8:30 maggie starts tracking steps again on her phone? >> yes, sir, that's what the data shows.

>> wrong button. and you would agree with me that 8:38, paul's phone shows him back up at the kennels? >> yes, sir, i agree that at 8:38 -- let me see -- it's hard for me to figure out which one -- at 8:38 it shows paul in whichever one of those rings is 56 meters away. i have no reason to believe he wasn't at the kennel. >> at 8:44:55, that's the kennel video? >> yes, sir, that's correct. >> you would agree that it lasts

about 50 seconds, correct? >> yes, sir, i would agree with that. >> you would agree with e moving on to page 19 both maggie and paul's phone logged for the final time around 8:49? >> that's what the data shows. >> after that, you would agree that maggie's phone around 8:53 shows steps being taken? >> that's what the data shows, yes, sir. >> that's what it shows, is that correct? >> that is correct. >> then you would agree with me that from 9:02 to 9:06, your phone finally comes to life and starts showing a lot of steps? >> i do agree with that. >> what were you doing? >> i was getting