>> yes, sir, i would agree with that. >> you would agree with e moving on to page 19 both maggie and paul's phone logged for the final time around 8:49? >> that's what the data shows. >> after that, you would agree that maggie's phone around 8:53 shows steps being taken? >> that's what the data shows, yes, sir. >> that's what it shows, is that correct? >> that is correct. >> then you would agree with me that from 9:02 to 9:06, your phone finally comes to life and starts showing a lot of steps? >> i do agree with that. >> what were you doing? >> i was getting ready to go to

my mom's house. >> you took a shower. you were laying on the couch. what do you need to do? >> it wasn't anything to get ready in that aspect. i was getting ready to go. i was preparing to leave. >> doing what? >> i don't know if i got up, went to the bathroom. i don't know. i can't tell you exactly what i was doing. >> that's more steps in a shorter time period than any time prior as you have seen from the testimony in this case. what were you so busy doing? going to the bathroom? >> i don't think -- >> did you get on a treadmill? >> no, i didn't get on a treadmill. >> jog in place. >> i didn't jog in place. i did not do jumping jacks. >> what were you doing, mr. murdaugh? >> preparing to leave for my mom's house. >> what does that mean? you were on that couch where you say you laid down. the suburban is outside. what all are you doing? >> i don't know if i went to my room, to the gun room, back in the -- >> doing what?

you have been so clear in your new story about everything. what were you doing during these four minutes? >> i disagree with your assertion about every detail. i don't recall. i know that i was getting up and i was leaving. i was going to check on my mom. specifically what i was doing, i don't -- i don't know. i know what i wasn't doing. what i wasn't doing is doing anything as i believe you have implied that i was cleaning off or washing off or washing off guns or putting guns in a raincoat. i can promise you that i wasn't doing any of that. >> okay. also during this four minutes where you got 283 steps, not only are you moving around a lot but you are making a ton of phone calls. you see this red line right

here? over that four-minute period all those steps were taken, that's also when you are making all these phone calls. isn't it? >> i made -- >> walking in place and making phone calls? >> let him be aware to answer before he steps on him with another question. please. thank you. >> you were making phone calls while you were talking steps. would you concede that? you don't remember what you were doing. >> i was making phone calls that's shown here. 9:05, i called my dad. i don't know that i was taking steps like you are saying i'm taking steps. i heard the same testimony you heard. steps can be recorded any number of ways. i don't have a specific recollection of walking around. i don't know if i was hitting my phone like the guy slowed or

doing whatever that makes steps. >> you were hitting your phone while you were making all these phone calls. >> hang on. what i'm saying, i don't know. i'm giving you an example. you are saying that i'm running around taking these steps and while i'm doing that i'm making telephone calls. what i will agree with is that this data shows that there was 283 steps recorded on my phone. sometime during that period i made certain phone calls. >> okay. >> not only for whatever it is is recording steps, but you are also making a ton of phone calls, including missed calls to maggie, who is 1,100 feet away. >> you are using the term a ton of phone calls. what i agree is i made phone calls listed on these call data records, which are very normal

phone calls for me. >> do you know why so many phone calls were missing from the log around this relevant time period when law enforcement downloaded your phone on june 10th? >> from my phone? >> yeah. >> i don't. >> did you delete them, mr. murdaugh? >> not intentionally. >> just around the time of june 7th, all these calls are missing. you had nothing to do with that between june 7th and june 10th? >> no, sir, i did not. i did not delete phone calls. one of the most important things in this whole thing for me has been getting this data that i believe would exist, phone calls and phone records would be part of that. i've been in enough civil cases and used phone records enough times to know that you delete a phone call from your phone, it doesn't disappear.

i can tell you, this jury and everybody who is listening that i did not intentionally delete phone calls from my phone. >> because you started talking about you are a former prosecutor, correct, and former lawyer doing civil cases? we went through that yesterday. boy, you are a busy bee on that phone right out of the gate at 9:02, right? >> the comments. >> objection is overruled. >> i am using my telephone -- 9:05 i call my dad. i agree i made other phone calls. >> one of the first things you start talking about with law enforcement is these calls that you made to maggie, correct? do you recall that from your first statement to law enforcement? >> one of the first things that i said to law enforcement? >> that's one of the things you talk about. with your interview with special

agent dave owen. >> i don't remember that being the first thing we talked about. >> one of the first things. >> if mr. owen asked me about it -- >> you brought it up, didn't you? >> i did? >> you don't recall? >> no, i don't recall. >> would you dispute me if i said you brought it up? >> that i brought up -- brought up what? >> your phone, mr. murdaugh. >> phone calls to maggie? >> yes. >> that i brought up phone calls to maggie to david owen? >> i'm asking you, is that one of the things that you talked about in your first interview with dave owen? you pulled out your phone and started looking at it, that you brought that up? do you recall that? >> that's not what you asked me. you asked if that's the first thing. i don't dispute mr. owen and i talked about phone calls. but that's not what you said. to be clear. >> the real reason, mr.

murdaugh, is that you as a lawyer and prosecutor are up at 9:02, having your phone in your hand, moving around and making all these phone calls to manufacture an alibialibi. >> that's incorrect. >> that's just another circumstance and coincidence in this particular case? right around the time that you lied to law enforcement about maybe one of the most important facts in the case? >> objection. >> it is a fact that i am notal say. >> how do you remember so much detail about everything else but you don't remember what you were doing to generate 283 steps while you are making these phone calls in the same four-minute period? >> i remember without any doubt with as clear a mind as i could

have at any time that i never manufactured any alibi in any way, shape or form because i did not and would not hurt my wife and my child. so i know for a fact that i never, ever, ever created an alibi. >> why don't you remember what you were doing when you were so busy for this four-minute critical period? >> i do remember what i was doing. >> other than i was getting ready to go? >> because that's what i was doing. >> okay. let's keep going.

you made those calls to maggie in that four-minute period. you had just seen them a few minutes ago when you say you went down there and came right back. why didn't you just take that quick little left 1,100 yards away and stop by? see why they didn't answer the call. you are wanting to get in touch with them. why didn't you go down to the kennels that were so close by? >> there was no reason to. i mean, mag -- >> multiple missed calls to maggie and she's so close and there's a driveway right there. why do you not go down there and say, i'm heading over there? >> it wasn't important to do that. me making those calls is me letting -- i believe i called maggie and i believe i called paul.

that's simply me just letting them know that i'm leaving for a minute. i will be back. the fact that they don't answer is not unusual at all. now, it is odd -- it is unusual that they never called me back. but at that moment, the fact that there's a missed call when i know they're on the property, i mean, that doesn't even register at all. that's perfectly normal to try to call somebody who is on the property and not be able to get them. as far as not going down there, there was no sense of urgency. maggie was with paul. she should be as safe as she could be. >> she should.

did you talk with maggie about going to almeda when you were at the kennels? >> i don't believe i did. >> did you talk with maggie about going to almeda during supper? >> i know that we had talked about it. i don't believe we talked about it at supper. but we may have. i know that i had talked about that i was going to go over there. then i decided that i wasn't going to go over there. >> what was your conversation at supper? tell me, if you could. about going to almeda. >> i can't tell you that we specifically talked about it. the only thing that i can tell you we specifically talked about at supper was paul. >> what was the conversation?

>> maggie was just concerned paul had been having -- for a young person, paul had been having high blood pressure. he is very resistant to go to the doctor. this had been going on for a little while. lately, paul's feet had swollen. for a 22-year-old to have swollen feet concerned both of us. it particularly concerned maggie. we talked about that. >> did you talk about mr. randolph at all? >> i'm sure we did. >> do you remember that group text coming in about whether or not anybody was going to go see mr. randolph at the hospital the next day? >> do i remember it coming in? i don't remember it coming in. i have seen the data. >> did you ever text the group and say you were going to almeda at all?

>> no. >> did maggie ever -- did you and maggie specifically discuss her going along with you to almeda? >> i don't believe that we did. i know that there was a point in time where i said maggie might go. it's highly unusual for maggie to go and visit just my mom. that whole situation, it just made maggie sad. she didn't like to go. i don't believe that we did. but i do acknowledge that at some point i said she might go for some reason. >> you told law enforcement on multiple occasions that -- first of all, maggie was playing to stay the night of june 7th? >> i did say that. >> you said that you came to find out that she came home of her own accord, correct? you told that to law enforcement, is that true? >> she did come home of her own

accord. >> she was worried about you. isn't that what you said? >> i did say that. i believe that to be the case. >> since we have -- despite what you told law enforcement, we have seen the text that you actually called her and asked her to come home on the night of june 7th? >> no, sir. >> that's not correct? >> no, sir. that's absolutely not correct. >> you heard your sister-in-law testify of that fact of a conversation she had with maggie. you are saying that's not true? >> i don't believe that's what marion said. >> your defense put in this exhibit 107 where maggie texted and said, alex wants me to come home. >> i have seen that. i agree with that. >> is that on -- i have the wrong input. i will just hold it up. you have seen this text? >> i have seen that. the only dispute i have with what you are saying is you are

saying i called maggie and wanted her to come home. i always wanted maggie to come home. i would have talked to maggie about coming home before she left to go to charleston. i can tell you this. i didn't realize this at the time, but i realize it now, that maggie was already undecided about -- i didn't know this. but maggie was undecided about staying. i can promise you that. bubba and grady were in their kennels as y'all well know, that night. that day. if maggie was certain that she was spending the night, at a minimum, bubba would have been with her and probably both dogs would have been with her. it's very unusual for her to

spend the night anywhere without one of us or those dogs. that tells me that when she left that morning, she was already seriously thinking about coming back. >> you are saying that you never called her and had a conversation that day asking her to come home specifically on the night of june 7, 2021? >> maggie and i had a couple of phone conversations that day. what i'm telling you -- i don't believe we had a phone call about that. we may have discussed it during the phone call. but i didn't make a phone call to her to ask her to come home. i had already told her i wanted her to come home. i always wanted her to come home. you heard marion say that, too. that i always wanted maggie with me. >> you thought enough of it to talk about it with marion, didn't you? >> the fact that i wanted her to come home? >> correct. >> well, sure. that's what marion said.

>> you are denying you called maggie and specifically asked her to come home that night? >> i didn't make a phone call to maggie to ask her to come home that night. i asked maggie to come home long before she ever left. i probably asked her again each time i talked to her. but i didn't make the phone call specifically for that, as you are saying. to be clear, i'm certain that if maggie was certain that she was spending the night, bubba would have been with her and probably grady. >> why did you tell law enforcement you found out after the fact that maggie wanted to

come home because she was concerned about you? why did you phrase it that way if what you are saying now is accurate? why would you phrase it that way? >> i believe that to be the case. >> you found out afterwards. now you are saying you knew. >> i'm saying i found out afterwards why she came home. she came home because she was worried about me. i want to be clear about that. i did not learn that until i think the day after she got killed. >> you are saying that you found out that after the fact, but you are telling this jury that you knew the things that you just said about her wanting to come home and you were unaware of what marion would say. >> i'm saying at that time i had not thought about bubba and grady. since that time, i have thought about that. i'm certain of that. at the time, i thought maggie was staying.

she was going to meet the people to do the work. maggie loved to stay there. there's no doubt about that. it would not be unusual at all for her to stay. just like every other time, i had already asked her, please come back. come back. always wanted her to stay with me. always. but i did not learn about -- maggie even texted me, i will see you in a few hours. but i did not know why she decided to come back until later. that's what i'm saying. and i learned it from blanca.

blanca actually showed me the text that she sent her talking about being worried about me. >> you would agree with me that you sent a text to maggie at 9:08:58 while in motion in the suburban as reflected by the data? >> i do. which was because i couldn't reach them by the telephone. and i wanted them to know where i was. which is what we do. >> you got to almeda around 9:22? >> i believe that's correct. i don't have any reason to dispute that.

>> made some more phone calls along the way? >> i did make more phone calls along the way while i was riding. >> call chris wilson? >> i did call chris wilson. >> had a short conversation with him? is that right? >> i did have a conversation for however long the records show. >> about 131 seconds, that sound about right? >> if that's what the records show. >> called your brother, john marvin, for about 106 seconds,

including connection time? does that sound about right? >> that does sound about right. >> arrived at 9:22, does that sound about right? >> it does. >> and then at 9:24, you call -- that's the landline, is that correct? >> that is correct. >> you went inside, is that right? >> yeah, that's right. i called the house phone to get shelly to let me in. >> when you were asked by law enforcement how long you were at your mother's house, you said 45 minutes to an hour, isn't that correct? >> i think i said a couple of

different things. i think at one time i did say that. you know, routinely through this thing, i kept saying, you know, when you get this data, you will see exactly. when you look at my phone, you will see exactly. you know? me giving the times was always given with the thought that, okay, there's onstar out there, there's whatever. >> when you had a conversation with miss shelly after the fact, you asked her to say that you were there longer than 20 minutes. >> you know, i heard shelly's testimony. i believe shelly to be a good person. i wasn't trying to influence shelly on any particular length of time because at the beginning of this, i believed that data

would show what data would show. for me to tell her to say something when my onstar will show something different doesn't make any sense. i can't answer that. what my recollection is is that i told shelly that law enforcement would be talking to her. we may have discussed how long i was there. at that point in time if i thought i was there 45 minutes, i may have said i was here 45 minutes. i can't tell you. >> is that the same thing that blanca testified to, that you closed to her about the clothes that you were wearing that made her uncomfortable, correct? >> ask that question again. >> it's similar to your conversation with blanca that she testified about when you talked to her about the clothes that you were supposedly wearing

and made her feel uncomfortable? >> what's similar? >> you are talking about their testimony in a manner inconsistent with what they know? >> no. i don't think your assertion is accurate. you have to understand this. on august 11th, when i went to meet with david owen and in that david owen asked me about -- he showed me that snapchat and asked me about clothes that i had on. shortly after that, the next time i was with blanca, i asked blanca about those clothes because david owen had asked me about them and was making -- made an issue about it. so i checked with blanca to see -- what i specifically asked

blanca, it wasn't an issue to me. i said, i need you to sit down and talk with me about this. this is important. do you remember my clothes when you came to moselle that day? she remembered exactly what she testified to. she remembered my pants were there. she wasn't sure if the shird was there. at that time, i think she actually thought the shirt was there. but she was clear she wasn't sure about that. no, no, she didn't remember. assumed that it was. so that was the conversation and why i was asking blanca. >> very specific about your memory of that conversation, is that correct? >> you are dang right i'm consistent about that. a very short time before that, david owen is asking me questions. and telling me i'm a suspect in

the murder of my wife and my child and asking me about my clothes. you are dang right it was important. >> it was important. >> you are dang right i remember what -- why i went to her and for what reason. >> the only thing you are concerned about is yourself? you are not concerned about giving accurate information to law enforcement, correct? what's the reason for that, mr. daughter? why do you want to talk to these women who both are employed by you or your family and try to influence what they are going to say? >> i did want to give law enforcement accurate information. i told a lie about being down there. i got myself wed to that. i wanted to give them as much -- i knew that i hadn't done this. i wanted to give them as much accurate information as i could.

but the reason i went to blanca is specifically because david owen was talking to me on august 11th. >> 9:42, heading back? 9:42 to 9:43? >> i do.

turned into moselle about 10:01? >> turned into moselle at 10:01? >> yeah. sorry. >> it looks like i turned into moselle at 10:00. >> on the dot? >> yes, sir. >> at the house at 10:05? >> yes, sir. >> that's when you went back to the kennels after you came back from almeda, correct? >> i went to the kennels after i went to the house. i went from almeda to the house to the kennels.

>> when you got to the scene, you got out of the car, according to what you told law enforcement repeatedly, and went and checked the bodies, correct? before you called 911, is that correct? >> no, sir, that's not correct. >> you are saying you didn't say that to law enforcement? >> i don't know what i said to law enforcement. i can tell you this. i pulled up and i saw maggie and paul. i jumped out of that car. i went back to my car and i called 911 as quickly as i could. that point in time when i got on the phone, then is when i went to them and did the things that i did.

what you are saying is not accurate. >> you are not saying you said to law enforcement that you went to them prior to calling 911? >> when? >> after you got out of the car, you told law enforcement repeatedly that you went over and checked the bodies before you called 911. >> if i did say that, i don't believe that's accurate. that i checked maggie and paul before i called 911? >> yes. >> no, sir. that's not accurate. at least that's not what i remember. >> that's not what you remember saying or that's not what you say now happened? >> that's not what i believe happened. >> you don't deny that's what you said? >> that i said that i checked maggie and paul before i called 911? >> correct. >> i don't believe that's what i

said. i know i checked them. but i don't believe i checked them before i called 911. i could pretty well remember vividly when i checked paul, i was on the phone with 911. >> looking at this data -- the

vehicle parking at 10:05:55? >> yes, sir. >> 10:05:57, the suburban arrives at the kennels. do you agree with that? >> say that again. >> at 10:05:57, it shows the suburban arriving at the kennels? >> okay. okay. >> the 911 call was at 10:06:14? >> okay. >> just about 20 seconds later? do you agree with that? >> i think that sounds right, yes, sir.

i mean, that makes sense. that goes back to what i'm saying. i pulled up. i saw them. and i know i jumped out of my car. but i believe that before i checked them -- in fact, i'm almost certain then i went back and i got -- that's when i went and got my phone and i called 911. >> okay. >> and then i called 911 -- i mean it was a little while when -- i don't think there was anything going on.

i believe that that is the time period that i went and checked on them. >> i don't want to belabor this point, that's not how you expressed it to law enforcement, is that correct? >> i disagree. i totally disagree with that. point to what you are talking about.

>> mr. murdaugh, state your full name for me, please. >> richard alexander murdaugh. spell your last name. >> m, u, r, d, a, u, g, h. >> you go by alex? >> yes, sir. >> your birthday. >> may 27, 1968. 803-942-1227.

>> what is your name? >> ian. >> as i stated, i hate to have to do this. >> i understand. you don't have any problem with it. >> start at the top. take your time. >> when i came back here? i pulled up and i could see them. i knew something was bad. i ran out and i knew it was really bad. my boy, over there i could see it was -- i could see his brain.

and i ran over to maggie. actually, i think i tried to turn paul over first. you know, i tried to turn him over. i don't know. i figured it out. his cell phone popped out of his pocket. i started to try to do something with it thinking maybe, but then i put it back down really quickly. then i went to my wife.

i mean, i could see -- >> did you touch maggie at all? >> i did. i touched them both. i tried to do it as limited as possible. but i tried to take their pulse on both of them. you know, i called 911 pretty much right away. she was very good. i talked to her. i told her i was going to get off the phone to call some family members. i did that. >> who else did you call?

>> i called my brother randy and i called my brother john. and i tried to call a real good friend around the corner from here, but i didn't get him. >> going back to your question, i mean -- that's the way i remember it, what i said right there. you know, your question about did i do these things before i called 911. that's not what i said then. that's not what i remember now. >> you are saying now that you went out and checked and came back, got your phone and that's when you called 911? >> i'm not saying that now -- i

am saying that now, but to me that's what i said then. i told her, i called 911 right away. there was no time to do the things i'm talking about doing in the time between getting there and calling 911. >> you talked about calling rogan. you said he lived right around the corner, correct? >> that's correct. >> rogan wasn't staying there at the time. that's the reason cash was at your kennel, right? >> rogan was staying in buford a lot. but he was home a lot. i didn't know where rogan was on a daily basis. >> he talked to you about keeping his dog at the kennel when he was staying with his girlfriend and working in buford? >> yes. he asked me that. that had been sometime before. i didn't know -- you are making

a big deal about this. but that particular night, i didn't have a clue where rogan was staying or not staying. i was trying to find somebody to come out there with me. i called randy. i called john. rogan was the next best alternative. rogan is so close. i mean, rogan -- all these kitds kids you heard, rogan -- he is truly like a son to maggie and i. he was such a good friend to buster. he was such a good friend to paul. you have been through everything i have. you will see that two weeks or three weeks prior to this, i ran out of gas when bus and paul weren't home. rogan is the person i called to bring me gas. >> nobody is disputing that

rogan would have helped you. i'm going to keep playing this. >> blood. >> anything else? >> i mean, there was body, yes, sir. >> any other evidence? i know you said the phone fell out of the pocket. did you see anything else that didn't belong or shouldn't belong or that wasn't part of paul? >> no, sir. no. no, sir. >> how about maggie? >> nothing. >> you didn't see anything around them? what made you come out here tonight? >> i went to -- my mom is in late stage alzheimer's. my dad is in the hospital. my mom gets anxious. i went to check on them.

maggie is a dog lover. she fools with the dogs. i knew she had gone to the kennel. i was at the house. >> you just testified that in the wake of this you didn't know what you said to law enforcement? that's what you just said? >> i know -- i know a lot of what i said to law enforcement. but there's a lot of things in looking back at this video, for one, the 911 call, for one -- i mean, there's a lot of things that i didn't remember. >> okay. right then and there, just not long into this interview, you made a conscious decision to lie

right there. >> play that again. >> i said, i was at the house. >> i knew she had gone to the kennel. i was at the house. i left -- >> you want me to back it up some more? we can keep listening to it. >> what made you come out here tonight? >> i went to -- my mom is a late stage alzheimer's patient. my dad is in the hospital. my mom gets anxious. i went to check on them. maggie is a dog lover. she fools with the dogs. i knew she had gone to the kennel. i was at the house. >> you want to hear it again? >> no, sir. >> you made a conscious decision to lie this early into the

interview? >> i don't believe so. >> you didn't make a conscious decision to lie? >> i don't believe that was lying at that point. >> tell me why not. >> because maggie had gone tole kennels and i was at the house. >> you think you wering -- that was not a lie at that point? >> i don't believe so. >> at what point did you decide to lie? >> i'm not sure. it was in that -- >> this interview? >> i believe that it was. >> this interview in the front seat? >> correct. >> you are not custody? >> not in custody. >> treating you politely? >> they were treating me very politely. >> what was it that clicked? this interview it clicked that i'm going to lie about the most important fact that i know? >> i'm not sure exactly when that i lied -- decided to lie. i believe it was during this interview. i believe all those things i

talked about, you know, those things that had gone on, things that people had said to me about don't talk to anybody without a lawyer, partners told me that, a lot of my partners told me that, my dear friend chief alexander was one who said that, i overheard i believe it was sheriff hill, i'm not positive, i overheard him say, don't let him talk to anybody without a lawyer. what i believe is that based on my distrust of s.l.e.d. and getting in that interview -- i'm not positive, but i believe when he asked me about my relationship with my wife and my son, i believe that's when i decided to lie. i'm not positive. >> you had the gsr, too. >> that contributes.

>> your dope paranoia? >> those things are what triggered the paranoia that started as my addiction evolved. >> you are an experienced lawyer and you have been -- you read that as i should lie? >> no. that's not accurate. >> that's not what that means, is it? >> you are not -- that's not an accurate statement what you just said. >> i just repeated what you just said. you said it was one of the factors was your law blaming sheriff hill and greg alexander told you that you needed a lawyer before you talked to police and you took that somehow as meaning i need to lie as a lawyer and a prosecutor? >> no, that's what you said, mr.

waters. >> how am i mischaracterizing it from your perspective, mr. murdaugh? isn't that what you heard? isn't that what you just said, excuse me. >> no, sir, that's not what i said. >> all right. say it again. >> i believe those guys were trying to help me. i believe they care about me. i believe they thought i was in a condition such that i shouldn't talk to anybody. i mean, those guys had to prop me up, help me get myself together just to be able to go talk to david owens. they were trying to help me, but before that, that was just one of the many things that i believe led to that situation sitting in there where those paranoid thoughts came to me, them talking about not talking to anybody without a lawyer, checking my hands, the fact that

i got a pocket full of pills in my pocket. i was the person who found maggie and paul, my distrust for s.l.e.d., all of those factors combined and made me -- i also know him asking me about maggie and pau-pau contributed to that paranoia. all i'm saying is i'm not dispuing that i lied. i'm just saying at this point you're saying i made a conscious decision to lie here, and i'm saying i don't think i made a conscious decision right there. >> okay. later? >> i believe so. >> had you already had your gsr done at this point? >> yes, sir, i had. >> okay. you already talked to your law partners and heard sheriff hill, and now you're blaming them and blaming chief alexander now as well for your lies?

>> no, sir, mr. waters. >> you didn't say that yesterday. you just added that one. >> please give him an opportunity to answer the question. >> objection. >> you can finish your last answer. >> mr. waters, i'm not blaming anybody. i accept full responsibility for what i did. what i'm saying is what i believe contributed to me doing that and the reason why i did that. i think those folks were trying to help me so i don't blame them. i think they were worried about me. >> okay. i don't dispute that, but you're saying you took that advice as i need to lie. >> no, what you're doing is you're isolating one single thing. >> i'm not isolating anything. i mentioned all the factors. you've added some new ones. i mentioned all the factors.

>> that's not what you did. you asked me -- you said i took my partners telling me not to talk to somebody without a lawyer as a reason to lie, ask that's an inaccurate statement. that was one of the factors that went into a series -- >> a lie. >> -- hang on, mr. waters. a series of events that caused me to have paranoid thinking, all right? and then i lied. >> all right. but at some point it happened during this interview that you crossed over. you're saying that you came into this interview intending to be fully disclosing to everything, and something happened in this interview since you're over the edge, and you said, hey, let me lie about the last time i saw wife and child alive supposedly. >> i certainly didn't go into that interview i believe intending to lie. mr. waters, i wasn't capable at

that point in time of planning anything or thinking through anything. >> so somehow during this interview, all of a sudden your senses came to you to plan and do that? >> when i got to thinking in that paranoid way that normally as i said, i mean, i could take a deep breath and make it go away. i never had a situation where it lasted more than a matter of seconds. that night after all those things had happened it didn't go away in a matter of seconds. and i decided to lie. >> those are the clothes you ultimately gave to david owen, is that right? >> those are the clothes i gave to david owen. >> at what point were you able

to chuck the pills you say were in your pocket? when did you do that? >> when i was in my bedroom. >> when you were in your bedroom? >> yes, sir where did you put them? >> i'm not sure where i put them. ultimately they would have gone in my suitcase. >> do you have a specific recollection of that? >> no, i don't. i just know i took them out of my pocket. >> if we watch the whole thing, do you think you could say that's the moment where my senses came to me and i decided i'm going to tell this major lie. >> i don't know that it happened like that. i may be able to tell you some things that contributed to it if we watch the whole thing. >> we've heard that.

>> i just want to be clear, though, at least on this one, at some point during this interview when you were able to plan your lie about this event and you made that decision. but it wasn't what we just played. it wasn't yet. it was some point after that. >> i don't think that's a lie right there is the reason why i don't think that it's occurred before this because what i'm saying there i believe to be truthful, and i know this. i know for a fact that when david owens asked me about my relationship with my wife and my child, i know that that played a role in that and i believe that, and i may be wrong, but i believe that this was before that. >> you ever heard the expression not telling the whole truth is

the same as telling a lie? >> sure, i have. >> is that something you understood as a lawyer and a prosecutor? >> yes. >> mr. murdaugh, state your full name for me, please. >> richard alexander murdaugh. >> and spell your last name. >> m-u-r-d-a-u-g-h. >> all right. and you go by alec?

>> yes, sir. >> and date of birth. >> may 27th, 1968. >> and a good phone number. >> 803-942-1227. >> and sir, what was your name? >> yeah, danny henderson. >> okay. all right. as i stated, i'm david owen, and i'm with s.l.e.d. -- >> i understand, i totally understand. you don't have any problem with it.

you hadn't decided to lie right there, correct? >> i don't believe so. >> you told david owen that you understood that he had to ask questions and you did what you need to do, correct? >> that is what i told him. >> your honor, this might be a good time for a break. >> ladies and gentlemen, addressing the jury, we'll break until 2:15. you will go to the jury room, please do not discuss the case. >> and so we're going into a lunch break, good day, i'm chris jansing at msnbc headquarters in new york city, and at this hour, if you've been watching, you know more high drama at the