seriously, not unless china makes it clear they're not considering these weapons, including we're told attack helicopters now. there is a report, attack helicopters -- excuse me, attack drones that will be gone as soon as they're able. >> so much to talk about, and a wide ranging interview, thank you for bringing it on. we appreciate it. somber scenes across ukraine today as survivors remember the dead and take stock of how a year of war has changed their lives and the world. in buka just outside of kyiv, grieving families laying flowers, commemorating lost loved ones, at least 20,000 ukrainians have been killed in the war, including 7,000 civilians. 400 of those victims are children. support for ukraine also on display in major cities around the world. in london, people turned out for a vigil. big crowd there. in paris, the eiffel tower lit

up in blue and yellow, of course the colors of the ukrainian flag, so was the empire state building in new york city. and we've got a lot to cover in our second hour of "chris jansing reports." let's get right to it. >> at this hour, turbulence on wall street. why stocks are tumbling right now, and what it means for your wallet. plus, the u.s. moving to seize $75 million worth of luxury real estate in miami beach, the hamptons, and new york city. the owner, a russian oligarch. we've got the new details on that. also what happened in the first court hearing connected to the deadly shooting on the "rust" movie set. and court action set to resume shortly. our nbc news reporters are here with all the latest developments, and we begin in south carolina where alec murdaugh is due back on the

stand any minute now. nbc's catie beck is outside the courthouse. we were watching together that withering cross-examination from the prosecution today, accusing murdaugh of manufacturing an alibi among other things, so when prosecutors picked back up in just a few minutes, what are we expecting? >> reporter: i think they're going to go right back to the critical time line, the way they have been doing this morning. we were wondering when they were going to get to the meat of the case, the meat of the argument. they spent a good deal on cross-examination dealing with financial crimes but he's not on trial for those, and frankly, he's admitted to stealing money, admitted to lying, he's admitted to a lot of the things they brought up yesterday already. the defense on direct covering a lot of ground right out of the gate, having him say he didn't shoot his wife, he didn't shoot his son, but he did lie to investigators. he was at the kennels just before the murders and sort of

rewriting this narrative. ninlly this morning, the prosecution getting to the fact that this time line had a lot of details, a lot of changes, and asking him to explain difficult things. one of the things that stands out is the number of steps that was tracked in that critical time. this is right around the time that the murder would have happened or just aftered -- after the murder would have happened, he's tracking 70 steps a minute, which is way more than his average steps in any time interval of any time of day. prosecutors were asking him what were you doing during that time, were you on a treadmill, you know, were you doing steps and jumping jacks, like what was going on, and there was no really good answer that alec murdaugh could provide for that. there were several questions in that same line that kind of created those moments, so he is certainly seeming unsteady up there, getting what we expected which is a brutal

cross-examination on the facts surrounding the murders this morning, rather than the other crimes. >> catie beck, thank you for that. >> and right now, wall street rattled once again. this time by new inflation data. seema mody is with us. >> the federal reserve's preserved gauge of inflation. the price index rising 5.4% in january from a year ago. it just asks this growing evidence that inflation has not peaked giving the two reads we received last week on consumer price indexes and producer prices which showed that prices are back on the rise. now, the question markets are trying to apps is whether january is an outlier or the start of the resurgence of prices going higher. it fuels the narrative of higher interest rates. wall street will look to the

unemployment data to see if the unemployment rate is starting to tick up and from that report, what wall street strategists will extrapolate the average earnings, but clearly markets responding, the dow now negative for the year. >> see ma, thank you so much for that. meantime, the justice department today seizing $75 million worth of properties, belonging to a russian national. it's part of their operation to punish russia for its invasion of ukraine. nbc's tom winter joins me now. what more can you tell us about this oligarch who owns these properties, supposedly, and why him? >> right. so victoris the oligarch we're talking about. there's not a lot of ties between him and russian organized crime, and there's some debate about whether he's really a part of putin's inner circle but anybody that's accumulated the wealth that he has is somebody that's undoubtedly close to putin in some way, believed to be

financial according to u.s. intelligence and law enforcement experts that we've spoken to. as far as the properties, two in the miami beach area, another in new york city on 5th avenue, and in addition to that, a property in the hamptons, south hampton, new york, among the $75 million that they're looking to seize today in connection with somebody who worked for him. he ended up in moscow, russia. the u.s. has indicted him. that's where that stands. all told, $165 million worth of assets has been seized from vexelberg. that included his $90 million, 255 foot yacht seized by spanish authorities at the request of the united states. he came on to the scene when he made payments, u.s. officials believer, through his cousin to michael cohen. there was a subject of the

special council back in 2018. recently involvement, has been charged with no crimes in payment to george santos in his campaign. that's something we'll continue to keep an eye on. all told, over $500 million seized or sought to be seized by the justice department since the invasion of russia into ukraine a year ago. >> operation clep toe capture, tom winter always on top of this. thank you so much. now to the first court hearing connected to the "rust" movie set shooting. maura barrett is covering it from los angeles. what did we learn from the hearing, and who was there, by the way? >> reporter: not alec baldwin. we expected to see him for the first time appearing virtually, but yesterday midday he waived the right to his appearance, said he accepted his rights and pled not guilty. the court is allowing him to continue working, filming on the set of rust, which is set to pick up filming again this spring in montana with a few

conditions in that he's not allowed to have access to firearms, he's not allowed to consume alcohol, and he's only allowed to interact with other witnesses on the "rust" set, they're not supposed to discuss the case at all. we did see hannah gutierrez-reed also involved in the case, very briefly. it was an incredibly quick hearing. she was read her rights as well. her defense attorney asking for her to be able to keep a firearm within her home because she had been receiving some threats after personal information had been shared about where she lives and she has a restraining order against one individual. the judge did allow her to have access to a firearm within her home, and now in terms of next steps, they did set a status hearing for later this march, and they will have that probable cause hearing, the judge will determine if there's enough evidence to go to trial as it is, later this spring. as a reminder, alex baldwin and gutierrez reid are facing charges of involuntary

manslaughter, that carries a conviction of 18 months, a possible $5,000 fine. earlier this week, those gun enhancement charges that would have carried an additional five years were dropped, and so right now, they're just facing those involuntary manslaughter charges. >> maura barrett, thank you for that. for one year now, our correspondents have been on the ground in ukraine, bringing news stories of war and heroism and survival, stories of ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances. lives transformed by the russian invasion of their country. we want to share some of the indelible impressions they made on two of our correspondents who have witnessed this war up close. nbc's erin mclaughlin is on assignment in kyiv right now, and ellison barber is here on set having just returned from ukraine. so erin, i remember this vividly, you were in ukraine a year ago, in kyiv, while ukrainians were getting ready for war, those men and women, young and old, learning to shoot, learning how to provide medical aid. i want to play some sound from

one woman you met just one day before the invasion. >> reporter: are you scared for your family? >> we all are going to die someday, and the thing you can do is you can live your life in dignity. or not. >> it was just so moving. you can live your life in dignity. now you have spoken to her just last week. what did she tell you? >> reporter: well, so much has changed for alina in the last year. she's lost her home. she's lost her job. at one point she ran from the russians, fled west to the city of lviv, now she's back in kyiv, but her son is now living in france. her family is broken, and after all of that, after everything she's been through in the last year, i put that question to her again, are you afraid for your family? and this is what she had to say.

>> i'm scared for them, like every moment and every second, but i learned that life is not evil to us. and even most like weird and dangerous situations, they can play for good or you can learn something from them, if you survive. and you become stronger. >> reporter: and alina's story is echoed throughout this country. at first glance you see that ukrainian resilience, but scratched beneath the surface and there's real deep trauma there that now millions are having to come to terms with, chris. >> wow, you can learn something if you survive. ellison, you were there. you spent a lot of time with people who were fleeing the country. i remember vividly those pictures of trains, and you

know, children going with mothers knowing they're leaving behind their fathers and husbands, not knowing if they're going to survive. you spent a lot of time with the folks who were crossing the border, trying to figure out what do we do next. here's one brave little girl you met last march. >> you're very brave. >> yes, i am. >> reporter: what do you want other kids who are watching this to know? >> i want them not to be afraid, and not to worry. i want them to listen to their parents. >> we all fell in love with her. how is she doing? >> we have been able to stay in touch with her, and at the time when i met her, her name is angelina, she was 8 years old, talked about having to leave behind her brother and father, and she and her mom weren't sure

where they were going next. they ended up in germany, and she just turned 9. she had a birthday celebration there. her mom shared photos of it with us. they say they're doing well. they were able to find an apartment. her mom was able to find a job. >> they didn't speak german, obviously. >> that's one of the big things, she's speaking german now because she's in school. the two boys, who are 7 at the time, he's still fluent in poland. the dad is in ukraine. the families are split up. it was a huge situation, you had children going and leaving one parent, if it was a male parent behind because of martial law. they are building new lives, learning new languages in foreign countries because they had to by necessity, but at some point when you're a kid when you've restructured your life, had to learn different languages, it becomes harder to go back the further you're away, and your identity changes and different layers as well. we talked so much at the

beginning of this about the amount of refugees we were seeing. i remember people saying, i wish we talked about syria, venezuela, and we should always be talking about that. you look at the numbers, and i said this a lot at the time. the amount of refugees that left ukraine in such a short period of time, about a million in a 7-day period, that is unprecedented in modern history, and the figuring out where to go was really hard for a lot of people. her mom told us she had a difficult time finding a job to start. even though you had all of these countriesing saying you can come. you need the structures set up rebuilding life in a different country and culture. >> her dad and her brother. >> stayed behind because they were not able. >> they're okay? >> as far as we know. and the other family that i know that i have stayed in touch with, that was the first thing they said. the boys are doing well, loving school in poland. they miss their dad because he's still in kharkiv. >> erin, you met a pizza shop owner, giving pizza to anybody

who had a gun and was willing to fight the russians. i understand you caught up with him recently. what is life like for him now? >> reporter: one of those rare voices at the time i interviewed him, the ukrainian government was down playing the threat of a possible invasion. he was not only saying the invasion was going to happen. it was a matter of when, if not if. he was giving away free pizzas to anyone who had bought a gun to become a defender. a year later he is on the front lines, in bakhmut right now. and i asked him where does he think this war is going, and he told me he believes this war could last some time. take a listen.

>> i don't think we have his sound. he was telling me had how he thinks this could become a way of life for him now. he expects to be on the battlefield for years, in stark contrast to what we're hearing from ukrainian leadership, what ukrainian leaders are saying right now, and what they're saying right now is if they get enough ammunition, enough weapons, they can see the war at a potential turning point in six months to a year, really pressing on the west to deliver that ammunition supplies, to deliver those weapons to the front lines as soon as possible. chris. >> one of the questions i get a lot, and it makes me emotional is people ask me, are you worried about your colleagues. and the answer is yes. and i want to play some video, ellison, that your team had last july when missiles were raining down in dnipro.

>> they're coming in. let's get to the shelter, guys. >> ellison, what was going through your mind at the time? can i ask, are your friends and family like enough already? >> i think probably a little bit. in that instance, and i'm sure you recognized the voice you're hearing, dan gallo, that's who i was with who you work with as well. we were scared, quickly got to the shelter. the big take away, watching that back now and in that moment, it reminded me of what life is like every day for ukrainians. we hear people talk about at the time people were saying, you see people in lviv and kyiv at restaurants, why are we sending this money, these resources, the risk is never at the front

lines, everywhere across the country, the risk is in the air at all times. we got to the shelter, we were locked down for a while, and then at some point, we all looked at each other, we were like, should we get dinner, we haven't eaten and we saw other people going out to get to do as well. why would that be the reaction after this terrible thing happened, and i realized the answer is what else do you do. when i talked to our local producer, she talked about it also being an act of defiance for them, that they want to stay. they want to be there. they want to live a normal life as best they can in the midst of all that because that's how they say we're not going to let you win. when i talk to young people there, what i hear them say often, they feel like this is a fight that has been building for a long time, and if they don't finish it now, it's something their children will have to deal with. you have this young, resilience group of young people, especially the ones back in 2014 that just refused to walk away from this because they think so

much is at stake, and that's one of the amazing things, to see the way they process, they have all of this trauma. people that don't leave their house without their paperwork, they're afraid they have to flee at a moment's notice. you forever have this threat looming over you, but you have these people who refuse to leave even if they have the option to go, they think they're part of something bigger, they want better for themselves, their country and their children. >> you know, you always meet people who don't want to talk on camera. is what you said what you take away or what are your thoughts about the people you couldn't bring to us. >> the things i think about the most, the children i met, who can speak calmly and eloquently. we look at kids and say they're playing in these terrible situations, they're resilient. i don't think they're just resilient, they're so aware of what's going on. i realize they play and laugh and do different things because it's their way of coping. i think we always are like kids are good. that's something i think about

every time i leave. >> so proud of you and grateful for the work you do. thank you for sharing your stories. the prosecution is set to continue in alec murdaugh's cross-examination. there's a big switch for you. how will the prosecution and defense strategy in this high profile case impact the verdict? a prosecutor and defense attorney are here to weigh in with the specifics next. you're watching "chris jansing reports." only on msnbc. re watching "chrig reports. only omsn nbc. (woman 1) i just switched to verizon business unlimited. it's just right for my little business. unlimited premium data. unlimited hotspot data. (woman 2) you know it's from the most reliable 5g network in america? (vo) when it comes to your business, not all bars are created equal. so switch to verizon business unlimited today. struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults.

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we're going to jump back into the courtroom at the murdaugh trial. i want to go to my criminal defense attorney, danny cevallos, not mine personally. and prosecutor, let's say briefly what's important to see this afternoon? >> well, does murdaugh continue to try to control the narrative by not answering yes or no but instead answering in long winded

explanations providing tons of detail about things that are completely inconsequential, who cares how you get a chicken out of a dog's mouth, when it comes to the important points, his memory is somehow, i'm not sure, i can't seem to recall. to me that's a red flag of someone being deceptive. anyone out there who knows liar will recognize this as a red flag. >> i'm watching the prosecutor too because he's got a hard job. we were trained when you're cross examining, someone who you would think did something awful, you have to maintain a certain level of disgust. he has to show the jury at every moment he thinks he's talking to somebody who brutally murdered his wife and son. he has to do that without annoying the jury and irritating the jury, and the longer this goes on, the more i sort of feel for him, and whether he's going to be able to maintain that posture. >> they're talking about emotion now, so we have a little more time, and whenever it goes into

a weekend, one of the things we always talk about is what do you want to send the jury home with because they're not supposed to watch any coverage, right? they're not supposed to discuss with the other jurors or with anybody else, but you know they're going to be thinking about it all weekend, so put on your prosecutor's hat. danny, put on your defense hat. if you're the defense attorney, danny, what do you want to leave them with? what do you hope they're thinking about over the weekend? >> you may not have control over that because the prosecution controls cross-examination right now. and don't think for a minute they're not thinking about stalling as they need to to run this to the very end of the day, and let the jury just marinate in what they want them to think about over the weekend. >> has a seed of doubt been planted at all. >> throughout the entire trial? >> oh, yeah. >> it's a tough call. the prosecution has a good case here. the reason you know that is that the defense may have hinted at a third-party liability case.

some other dude did it theory. they never developed it. they gave us a hint. the shooter was 5'2", maybe people were after paul-paul, who knows. it wasn't the defense team's plan to call murdaugh, it was murdaugh himself who has the constitutional right to take the stand and possibly bury himself. whether or not he does so here today, probably the most critical day is a matter for debate. i think most people are leaning towards bad idea to get up there. >> let's just say, talk about things the prosecution didn't do. they didn't provide a weapon, and they didn't provide for a lot of people what seems like a strong or plausible motive, a provable motive. but what do they have that people think is a big strength, jurors might marinade. >> i was surprised that danny described it as such a strong

case. i don't think it's a great case. the theory of motive doesn't really land with me that he wanted his wife and son to be dead so that he would be more sympathetic. it's not the same as saying i don't think he could be guilty of this crime. i think there were better motives. family violence is a really common thing, actually, people who are angry with themselves and the world do kill their wives and their sons. i think they could have described the motive differently. i think there are a couple of questions that are hard to understand. why were there two different guns if one person did it. maybe it's because he wanted it to seem more confusing than it is, but i think in the end, they have developed with him on the stand, their best evidence, which is he was there at the site of the crime. like ten minutes before these two were murdered, and he lied about that. and if i were them, i would make sure that that fact is front and center in the minds of the jurors as they go home.

>> so you only need one. right? you only need one juror to say i have a reasonable doubt. you only have to have one juror who will say, well, you know, given everything i know about pau-pau, and he was involved in a boating accident and a lot of people were very angry with him because a young girl, teenage girl died during that, even that little seed often turns on, tell me if you think i'm wrong, do you like the person who's on the stand. we've got like five seconds. is he likable? >> probably not. he's already told you he's a liar. he's lied about everything, including lying to law enforcement agents, not just about financial crimes, but about this particular crime. law enforcement agents if you had told the truth could have gone out there and looked for what he says is the real bad guy. we haven't heard about that real bad guy if he exists. >> let's hear now, danny.

thank you, let's listen in. >> like when i came back here? i mean, i pulled up and i could see them, and you know, i knew something was bad. i ran out. i knew it was really bad. my boy over there, i could see it was -- and i could see his brain on the -- and i ran over to maggie, and i actually i

think i tried to turn paul over first. you know, i tried to turn him over, and i don't know, i figured it out. cell phone popped out of his pocket. i started to try to do something with it thinking maybe, but then i put it back down really quickly. then i went do my wife, and, i mean, i could see. >> did you touch maggie at all? >> i mean i tried to do it as limited as possible. i tried to take their pulse on both of them. and, you know, i called 911

pretty much right away, and she was very good. i talked to her. i told her i was going to get on phone to some family members. i did that. and. >> what family members did you call? >> i called my brother randy, and i called my brother john. and i tried to call a real good friend right around the corner, but i didn't get him. >> what all was around paul when you walked up? >> blood. >> anything else? >> i mean, there was some body things, yes, sir. >> i mean, like any other

evidence? i know you said the phone fell out of the pocket, but did you see anything else that didn't belong or shouldn't belong or that wasn't part of paul? >> no, sir, no. no, sir. >> how about maggie? >> no, sir. >> you didn't see anything around them? >> what made you come out here tonight? >> my mom's late stage alzheimer's patient, my dad's in the hospital. my mom gets anxious. i went to check on them and maggie, maggie's a dog lover and she fools with the dogs, and i knew she'd gone to the kennel. i was at the house. >> just to be clear, you say you hadn't made the conscious decision to start lying about your wife and son's murder right there, correct? >> i don't believe so.

>> let's continue on. mr. waters i can't tell you exactly when that decision occurred. >> you can't describe to the jury the moment you decided to lie about your wife and son's murder? >> i can't tell you exactly when that moment occurred. >> you did say earlier when they asked you about your relationships that was a trigger point, correct? >> well, that was certainly one of the things that contributed or made me paranoid. >> okay. >> now, you know, there were already things that had gone on that -- that occurred as i said that put me in that mind set. >> yeah. >> but exactly when i decided to lie about that, i can't tell you. >> so the things, again, you

talked about your dope paranoia, the fact you had taken gsr, and you talked about the advice of your law partners and sheriff hill and greg alexander and then you talked about your distrust of sled, somehow from the circumstances and demeanor of this injury right here. >> my distrust from sled didn't arise from this interview. my distrust for sled arose from a couple of things, really several things. it arose from the way they had been involved, sled had been involved in the investigation into paul's criminal charges, and they had been involved in -- there was an issue that had gone on with some rumors about buster and paul, they had been involved

in that where, you know, buster nor paul had anything to do with what i'm talking about. and sled never said that. you know, they told their lawyer that, they never say that. and there had been another incident where sled had charged greg alexander, my friend in this case, they charged him and in fact, i thought the agent that was involved in that was david owen. the charges against greg alexander were so -- they were so wrong that my dad and i made a conscious decision, even though he was a career prosecutor, made a decision to go to the courthouse and sit with greg alexander while his trial went on because -- >> it was a while back.

you don't know if dave owen was at sled ten years ago. >> i checked on that because that night, the officer who was involved in that case and bringing, clearly manufactured charges against greg alexander. >> you're saying the night before you sat down for this interview, you were asking somebody about whether or not greg alexander ten years ago in the wake of what had occurred? >> no, i didn't ask anybody. >> that wasn't what you were discussing when you were sitting in this car? >> i wasn't discussing that. i'm telling you, i thought david owen was the agent that was involved in that case. now, i learned later because i checked on it, i learned later that it was a different david sled agent, first name david with a different last name. i learned that later. i'm just saying, that was all part of that process going on in my mind. >> you're saying you're sitting here right now this dave owen, and circumstances and demeanor of this interview you're thinking that guy had been involved in the prosecution or investigation of your friend ten years ago.

>> i did. >> here's a new one you just mentioned to us, correct? >> that's not a new one. >> the circumstances are new. that's fairly specific, don't you think? >> no, sir. >> i mean, the story keeps evolving, keep going. >> you asked about me this, mr. owen. mr. waters. part of this whole process involved my distrust for sled. that was a big part of my distrust for sled. >> we can see it on your face in this interview, can't we? >> i don't know. >> all right. but you said when what you just said a little bit ago, that wasn't a conscious decision yet. >> i'm saying i don't believe it was. i don't know exactly when i made the decision to lie about that. >> if you see it, let me know. >> just a little while, texted

her, no response. >> when i got back to the house, the house obviously nobody was in there. think they're up there fooling around. paul was going to be getting set up to plant sun flowers, the seeds got sprayed and died, and he was refiguring to plant the sunflower seeds. so i came back up here and drove up and saw. >> had maggie and paul been arguing or anything? >> no. >> what was their relationship like? >> wonderful. >> wonderful. how about yours and maggie's? >> wonderful. i'm sure we had little things here and there, but we had a

wonderful marriage, wonderful relationship. and yours and paul's relationship? >> as good as it could be. >> how old was paul? >> 22. >> right here, that line of questioning, just asking some very general questions about your relationship, you mentioned that before, mr. murdaugh, is that the moment right there, is that the look on your face when you decided to lie about an important fact in your wife and son's murder? >> i don't know, as i said, mr. waters, i don't know the exact point that i made that decision. >> you specifically earlier mentioned that exchange was somehow triggering you to lie about the last time you saw them alive. >> now, i'm not saying that that's what made me lie. i'm saying this whole set of circumstances caused me to be in a state where i had paranoid

thoughts. >> okay. >> that normally, mr. waters, i could take a deep breath and make go away in a second, or two seconds, or three seconds at the most. and on this night, i wasn't able to do that. but all of those things i mentioned i believe contributed to that. >> anymore you want to add now since you keep adding them? . >> i'm glad to answer any question you have. >> i'm asking, the factors have gone from yesterday to today and now even after lunch we got some new ones. anything else you want to add right now as to factors? >> i don't believe that i've added any new factors, i believe

that's what i said yesterday. >> all right. >> i've explained some of those factors because of your questions, but i don't believe i've added anything. >> okay. >> let me move this forward just a little bit. >> most of this was stuff from, you know -- >> you talked about yesterday in great detail about the bookcase, which you brought up on the 911 call and to daniel green, then of course in this first interview, correct? >> i did mention the boat wreck. >> all right. and you described that. do you remember what you said in the interview about specifically

the other people involved in the boat wreck, you don't remember specifically? do you remember specifically? i guess you said no. >> i remember talking about the boat wreck, and i know that i talked about the boat wreck. >> i'm going to play now from 17:14. >> any direct threats from people on the boat specifically, but i do think there's been a small amount of yip yap between a couple of them but not recently. >> okay. >> what was the term you used for that, a small amount of yip yap? >> and just to be clear, mr. waters, there was never ever a point in time where i thought that the people that were involved in the boat wreck did this to pau-pau and maggie? i've never thought that. >> all right. >> never thought that, but it's literally one of the first things that you said out of the 911 call. >> that's not what i said. i never ever ever under any

point in time believed that those kids that were riding in that boat or their parents or their families, i didn't believe that any of the families, the people that were involved in the boat wreck had anything to do with hurting maggie and paul, but i can tell you that at that time and as i sit here today that i believe that boat wreck is the reason why pau-pau and maggie were killed, and i believe that. >> random vigilantes. >> no, what i believe, mr. waters, i believe that when paul was charged criminally, there were so many leaks, half truths, half reports, half statements, partial information,

misrepresentations of paul that ended up in the media all the time. and when i tell you the social media response that came from that was vile, the things that were said about what they would do to pau-pau, they were so over the top that nobody would believe anybody would get on social media and do that. but i believed then, and i believe today that the wrong person -- the wrong person saw and read that. >> okay. >> because i can tell you for a fact that the person or people who did what i saw on june the 7th, they hated paul murdaugh

and they had anger in their heart, and that is the only -- the only reason that somebody could be mad at pau-pau like that and hate him like that. >> got you. all right. so we've got now -- but that's why i did then believe it's the boat wreck, and i believe now that the boat wreck had something to do with it. >> all right. so we've got random vigilantes because of the boat wreck. >> i don't know that they're random vigilantes. >> you just said it wasn't the kids or the family of the other kids in the boat, right, so you're saying it's somebody off social media, you don't have any evidence, you're telling the jury as you try to explain the lie you told for the first time yesterday. >> no, sir, that's not right. >> let me ask you a question, what you're telling the jury is it's a random vigilante. >> that's your term. >> that happened to know paul

and maggie were boat at moselle on june 7th, knew they would be at the kennels, knew you would not be there between the times of 8:49 and 9:02, they show up without a weapon, assuming they're going to find weapons and ammunition there, commit this crime during the short time window and travel the same exact route that you do around the same time to alameda? that's what you're trying to tell this jury? >> you got a lot of factors in there, mr. waters. all of which i do not agree with, but some of which i do. >> all right.

>> you testified earlier that after this happened, let me back up for just a minute, when you were going to and from alameda, why were you rolling 78 miles per hour down that dark, beat up road. >> i wasn't in such a hurry. >> you weren't? >> no, sir. sir

i'll show you what's been marked as state's 573, see if you recognize this. >> i do. >> tell the jury what that is. >> it's my car. >> what's it in front of? >> the house at moselle. >> and what's between the house and the mercedes? >> the golf cart. >> is that where it was on june the 8th, to your recollection? >> no, sir. >> where was it? >> it was near there, but that's not exactly where it was, no, sir. >> okay. where was it? >> where we would normally park it would be a little bit closer to the shed. i mean, a little bit closer to the house, to the bushes. >> okay. >> your honor, this -- >> when was that photograph taken? >> do you recognize when it was taken? >> no, i don't recognize, no,

sir. >> you wouldn't dispute that it was around the time in the after math of the murders, would you? >> after math being when? >> i'm asking you, a day, a week, an hour. >> i wasn't there, mr. murdaugh, do you recognize this. >> i recognize the car, the house and the golf cart, but that is not -- that's not exactly how it would have been that night. >> all right. >> can you describe to me, then, where it would be different? >> well, it would be more in line with -- first things first is when we drove the golf cart or when i drove it for sure, and i believe when the others drove it, you would come in and you would go across the little brick walkway that's in front of this, so i would have come in and gone this way or i would have come in and gone this way. this is not a place that any of

my family would have normally parked it. and so what i'm assuming is this obviously is taken at daytime and what i'm assuming is it was taken when sled came. the earliest it was taken is when sled came to the house the next day, which i believe the testimony is in the afternoon. and at this point in time, that golf cart, i would assume would have been moved several times. that's not how it was. >> where did you leave the golf cart when you got out of it around 8:49? >> in the manner in which i just talked about. >> okay. help me out again, so i understand. you would have come around this way or that way. where would it end up? >> in this picture, facing to the right. >> i got you. >> the night that i drove it, i believe i parked it facing to the left. >> i understand. >> would be customarily how i did it. and i believe i did it that way

that night. >> okay. all right. >> and that is how i would have gotten into it? >> that's very specific memory, thank you. >> all right. >> just stating how it is. >> state's 573 into evidence. >> no objection. >> admitted without objection. >> you see, mr. waters, you can see in the picture now that you bring this up on the screen, if you look to the right, you can see the actual steps, and just to the left of that would be where the little brick patio stops. so where i would normally park it, you would roll across the bricks and into the golf cart would be just past those. we all normally parked it that way because the way you charged this golf cart is if you see that backseat that's sitting, you can see the edge. this is a three-seat golf cart, and you can see the backseat,

and a lot of golf carts have the charger, sits on the floor or something. this golf cart has the charger that's plugged in and a part of the golf cart. you flip that seat up and it plugs in, and the outlets are right up there by the door. >> okay. anything else you want to say about that? >> i'm going to answer any questions you have, mr. waters. >> i appreciate all of that information. >> objection. >> sustained. >> all right. it's just never parked that way. by the family.

>> mr. murdaugh, i'm going to put up the second interview. this would have been june the 10th. not going to play the whole thing but i want to go through a couple of things with you. >> anything you want to do, mr. waters. >> i apologize, got ahead of

myself, i want to do one last thing on the first thing. firstg for the record, i'm going to start it at 23:55. this is the first interview. >> she's been having trouble with her stomach, it was sort of a routine visit, and i can't remember.

she told me the name of it, and i want to say gordonine, is who i think she was. >> was she home around supper time, 6:00, 7:00? >> i don't think she got back quite that early, i think she got back a little bit later than that. >> and what did you do, were you in the office or? >> i was home, i came home, paul and i messed around. i laid down, took a nap on the couch probably, i don't know, 25, 30 minutes. i got up, i called maggie, didn't get an answer, and i left

to go to my mom's. she said she might ride with me, but she normally doesn't when i go over repeated the lie that you decided? >> was that the moment that i decided? >> was that the moment you decided to lie to mean old dave owen? >> i don't know, as i told you, the exact moment i decided to lie. but at that point in time -- >> you did lie there, obviously. >> i did. >> and she's very good about answering the phone, so that was odd, or calling me back. that was odd but it wasn't that big of a deal.

>> we go to the second interview, previously admitted. >> let me ask this before we started. you say that earlier during your direct testimony that after these crimes happened you were around family, family was around you. your law partners were around you, pretty much every minute after that, correct? every waking minute? didn't you say that yesterday? >> yes, they were for a long time. >> and this second interview was three days later, is that right?

>> that's correct. >> and at no time was any of your close friends and law partners and family do you confess the truth, do you? >> no, i do not. >> do you say, hey, man, i think i messed up, what should i do about this? >> no, i didn't. >> you're not telling that lie to anyone, are you? until yesterday. >> excuse me? >> you're not telling that lie to anyone until yesterday, are you? >> not telling what lie? not telling somebody that i was lying? >> all right.

>> i'm going to move this to approximately 24:56. correction, 12:28. >> he doesn't like to go to doctors, making him get his blood pressure checked. you know, it was a big huge deal. >> what's that? >> you know, we hung around the house