raised over $270,000 from over 8000 donors for mr. james. that is great stuff. so, you ask and i shall deliver. my boys have been in here for the last two hours and they've been great about it. come on, guys. thank you for joining me everybody. that wraps it up for. me i'm yasmin vossoughian. this is our nor, coming our. guys coming as. come on camera. guys, we've got a wrap up. come on, he's a little shy. come up here. we will see you next weekend, saturday and sunday 2 to 4. pm >> symone starts right. now sorry simone. by. same bag as. >> greetings everyone, if you are watching symone. any minute now we are expecting an update from federal and local officials and recovery efforts out of ohio, for a top supreme derailment three weeks ago has residents demanding answers about their health and safety. i asked pete to the judge about

his visit to palestine. and his response to criticism about the way that he has handled this derailment. plus, a member of ukrainian parliament joins us to talk about a year of war that is devastating her country. we will ask her about president biden's surprise trip to kyiv and what ukraine needs to defeat russia. i am simone sanders johnson, and i have something to say. ♪ ♪ ♪ fear, worry, and anxiety. that is what east palestine residents have been feeling since the norfolk southern chain went on the tracks, causing one of the most environmental disasters that we have seen an a while. right now we are waiting for a briefing from federal state and local leaders and east palestine and it is set to

begin any moment. we will bring you any updates we learn from it as they have been. today, residents in east palestine, some of their concerns about the long term safety of the air they are breathing might be valid. daughters right, researchers at texas a&m took a closer look at epa findings and east palestine and say that there are nine different pollutants in the air, at high enough levels to post long term respiratory problems. the epa says that the toxic pollutants will go away on their own, likely, but as the ohio department of natural resources announced 45,000 aquatic animals have already been killed by toxins in the water, many residents who live near the derailment say that they are not happy with what they are hearing or seeing from the epa. >> we are three weeks in, they should have had their testing immediately. and they should have been telling all of these families how to clean their houses, or stay away. why didn't fema come in and set

up houses for all of these families? >> house republicans have launched an investigation of their own, but not into how the derailment happened or what the railroad is doing to clean it up but into trump protection secretary pete buttigieg. and a letter to secretary buttigieg, they wrote despite the department of transportation's responsibility to ensure safe and reliable transport in the united states, you ignored the catastrophe for over a week. which folks, we know is not true based on the timeline provided by white house officials, multiple federal teams were actually on the ground within hours of the derailment. now the committee's letter also asked the department of transportation to hand over documents related to the national transportation safety board investigation. but to be clear, they are an independent federal agency meaning that they are entirely separate from the department of transportation. you are going to hear my interview with secretary buttigieg in just a minute but he responded to the letter on

twitter. he said i am alarmed to learn that the chair of the house oversight committee thinks that they are part of our department. it is an independent and with good reason. still we will review this and respond appropriately. meanwhile, the national transportation safety board, or ntsb, that is in fact responsible for, as its name indicates, national transportation safety, released an initial report on what is found out about the derailment. there are a lot of questions that remain but one thing it's clear from the preliminary report. the incident was preventable. i had the chance to talk to transportation secretary, pete buttigieg about the derailment after his visit to east palestine i started by asking him what he told president biden when he briefed him after returning, take a listen. >> the president is taking a personal interest in this situation from early on. i wanted to make sure that he knew about what i saw on the ground. both in terms of the administration response and that is something that it has

been really well coordinated in terms of how the d.o.t. personnel, and national transportation safety board, epa and others, many of whom were on the ground for the first hours of the situation have all been coordinating both with each other and with state and local authorities. i also wanted him to know about what i saw in the residence of east palestine. people whose lives have been upended through no fault of their own. who have just shown remarkable resilience, and are asking to make sure that they will be taken care of. there has been so much information, and frankly so much misinformation thrown at this community, and thrown at this situation that a lot of them are asking who they can even trust, and it is so important to continue to make sure that they can get good, accurate information about the things that they care about most, which isn't national politics, or who looks good, or who looks bad. it is continuing to know that

their air, water, and soil are going to be safe, that their homes are going to be safe. that is what anyone would want to know in the situation. you can feel a sense of fatigue with all of the kind of politics swirling around their community. they just want to know they will be taken care of, which is exactly what the president of the administration is working to make sure of. >> oftentimes, i have been in a number of these meetings with the president. he will direct individuals with whom he is meeting with to do something after they have briefed him. the president, would he direct you all to take any further action? >> yes. he is looking for us to make sure that we are doing everything in our power to support these residents to communicate with these residents, and that means different things across different agencies. epa is focusing on making sure that the cleanup and that they get the test results, and the support that they need. public health officials have their role, and transportation policy making sure with so much

focus of what happened with this derailment, both the norfolk southern accountable, we have been working since the day that they arrived on safety regulations. because it got watered down quite a bit under the previous administration. also calling on congress to make steps, constant steps like increasing the cap on the finds that we can use to hold railroads accountable for any safety violations. making sure that we have eight freer hand for imposing the right kind of safety promoting rules on things like braking systems on the way that hazardous materials or have spinning. >> i want you to know that the ntsb, she indicated that one of the roles mandating faster brakes on some trans would actually not have prevented this particular derailment. i think that that goes back to 2017. has enough cause been and

determined for you to consider policy changes? do you know enough now and if so, what are some of this policy changes? >> this is a very important distinction. i want to make sure that i emphasize this. ntsb it's still doing its analysis on what caused this particular derailment. we are going to learn more. they did their fact-finding release, that thursday that i was in town, but maybe a year or more before the final analysis is in. but what i am seeing is that even as we wait to see the final analysis, we know that some of these policies are a good idea. the old 2015 version of the braking rule would not have applied to this type of train. but it is still a good rule, i think that we still need to find ways to strengthen rules around breaking. we do not know yet whether some of the other regulations, or safety procedures that got watered down before would have applied in this particular scenario, but we already know that they are the right thing

to do. of course, when that ntsb report is released on a year, or however long it takes some, i am sure that there will be more lessons that we could apply in a very specific and technical way. >> what can congress do to ensure that railroad corporations are not able to skirt safety regulations just because it costs more, is there a specific bill? >> the railroad companies have been very effective and pushing back and getting their way in congress. but i think that right now as a congress could step up, and some of the very same people who have been quick to get on twitter or on tv could be quick to get on a bill that would make a difference. let me mention some specific things that congress could do. i already mentioned raising the cap on the finds, that would make a very big difference. another thing i think would help would be to accelerate the adoption of stronger tank cars. again, i am careful to say that i am not making any statement that has to come from ntsb about what applied in the situation, what we know is that there is a stronger standard of tank car for many hazardous materials under the obama

administration, a rule said that it would be fully adopted by 2025. that got water down, pushed back to 2029. i think we could move that timeline back up but we will need help from congress in order to do it. >> do you think that ntsb and the department of transportation should be working more closely together? >> just to be clear, i think that ntsb it's doing a fantastic job in the system in terms of our folks on the ground supporting v ntsb while doing our own work, i think that it has worked well. they have had great cooperation in this case. what i am rethinking is whether there are ways to still be more engaged, and on the scene while supporting their independent, and still being able to show support for residents. >> transportation secretary, pete buttigieg, thank you very much. >> thank you, good to be with you. >> my next two guests who live near the crash site and had to evacuate their homes, one of them took these pictures that you are seeing on your screen. i will get the reactions to

what we just heard from the transportation secretary, pete buttigieg. but i have my colleague here for today's other top news series, hi richard! >> some of the stories we are watching, warmer temperatures expected to come back after days of extreme weather nationwide. half 1 million homes and businesses in southern michigan were without power after an a storm pounded that region. meanwhile, millions in california are facing everything from flooding to blizzards. overnight [inaudible] a record low temperature of 39 degrees, disgraced attorney alex murdaugh, reportedly faces charges, citing jail record. now murdaugh spent an emotional second day on the witness stand yesterday in his double murder trial. he is charged with killing his wife and son. the prosecution tried to question his credibility while he suggested somebody else killed his family members. and first lady, dr. jill biden, says that joe biden is ready to run again. she made the comments during an

interview in nairobi. the second and final stop of her five-day trip through africa. it is the strongest sign yet that president biden will indeed run for reelection. more simone, stick around right after this break. this break (vo) with verizon, you can now get a private 5g network. so you can do more than connect your business, you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on. you want a loan to build a factory in america? you can't do that. this is what we were up against. nobody builds factories in the us anymore. you can't do that. experts claimed you couldn't do what we did. you want to hire workers here in the states? you can't do that. weathertech has been proving them wrong, for over 33 years.

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with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to 60% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. >> greetings everyone, we are comcast business. powering possibilities. still monitoring that press conference from east palestine from local, state, and federal officials. we will bring you everything from that press conference

during this hour. this weekend, teams from fema and the center for disease control, cdc, at the are going door to door in ohio and they are doing that to offer support to residents offered by the train derailment. the people who live near the site are worried about what lies ahead for them, and rightfully so. more than 1000 east palestine residents attended the town hall last night, hoping to get advice from environmental activist, erin brockovich. her advice, in a nutshell, was question everything and demand answers. i want to hear from residents myself about their concerns, so please welcome ben rattner and melissa sniff. both live near the side of the derailment. thank you both for being here with us today. you both heard my conversation with the transportation secretary, pete buttigieg. melissa, what is your reaction to what he said? >> i know that the community is

pretty upset, because they felt like pete should have adjusted a little quicker. i understand at the federal and of it, they were communicating early on. but there was a little delay and communicating that and i am glad to see that he is at least here and trying to accomplish all of the things that need to be done. i think we definitely need congress to be on board with whatever we need for the changes to move forward with the railroad, with safety issues. i think when he is speaking about that that is a very important issue for any community moving forward that house a railroad running through it. >> melissa, have you seen any fema or cdc teams in your neighborhood given that they said that they would be going door to door and canvassing the community this weekend? >> i live on a farm, a little over three quarters of a mile

south of the derailment. we live pretty isolated, so we have not had anyone come to our door as of yet that i know of. so someone else may be better suited to give you that answer. but i do know that they are here, and i have had many organizations from the state visiting my business, checking in on our needs, seeing what best would suit us to help us, and i found that very comforting to know that people are coming, and stepping up, and have addressed that and said they would be here for us. >> we have neighbors pitching in and doing what they are supposed to do. ben, what about you, your thoughts about what you heard from secretary buttigieg and you live less than a mile from the derailment site. you are actually back in your house, i would like to hear what made you decide it was safe to go back. >> i will start with the second

question if that is okay. we really made the decision after the initial evacuation order was lifted, we didn't go home for about three days just to kind of waited out and see how things were going to end up. they told us early on that levels we're okay, you could go home, and we have four kids, and we are trying to keep their life as normal as possible, especially after covid. now it seems like they didn't have all of the information, excuse me, it seems like they didn't have all of the information. i think this issue as far as the timing of everything, it really starts with the state first taking it more seriously than they did. i am not sure if it was just too much, like you said, the experts were given, the ones from norfolk southern, the person at fault, the company at fault generally concerns the narrative. they are the experts and what they were carrying. and they really held off as much information early on as

they could. and our state epa, it is rand by an ex lawyer, not anybody with any environmental background. i don't mean to call somebody out but we deserve to have experienced people in these positions. that is something that needs to be looked at. who is actually regulating in holding these counties companies accountable? >> i know i asked you about secretary buttigieg, but are you saying that if you know than what you know now, you might have made a different decision about going back home? >> yes. the big focus early on was on the chemicals and i think that was very important, but they are focusing on the veto sea levels because the equipment used to test for that was not as effective as air sampling materials. it does not tell you the actual kinds of chemicals. now we see this report coming out that there's actually nine

chemical still in the air that had not been picked up going back to testing weeks ago, and on top of that there is all of the soil that was contaminated with thousands and thousands of gallons of oil. so i think that as much as the finger could be pointed at everybody in this circumstance because of the systemic issues we have with government, i really think that had our state stepped in sooner it would have got the mayor to step in -- sorry, the secretary. >> that is okay. you talk about the soil, melissa, we have pictures from your farm, actually. i will put it up on the screen. this is from the night of the derailment. these pictures are absolutely terrifying. are you worried about what this has done to your farm animals, or game in the area? ben talks about the soil, we now have this new information about the pollutants in the air. >> sure, we have major concerns

with it, obviously. we are currently waiting on water testing for our well and our spring and a pond, one of our three ponds. and we are currently also waiting on some soil testing from what i know, dioxins are a concern and those are things that we need to have answers to to see where we go forward from here. we do realize that there is probably going to be plant tissue testing as welcome spring. and as ben had said, the chloride dissipates very easily with i believe when it comes into contact with the air. so the systems that they are using with the creeks, aerating that and creating air bubbles and whatever to dissipate that, those things are working but there are other chemicals like -- and other things that we have concerns with, so yeah, the

contaminated soil under the tracks, that is obviously a huge concern for all of us because we may be getting some good test results now where are we going to be years from now? those are huge concerns for us. >> there are long term implications here. they are telling me that we have to go, you all. we are going to stay on this story, and i think that i can confidently say i will be speaking to you to again. we will bring you back because this is absolutely critical. melissa, for you to say that your well water has not been tested yet? just, i don't even have the words. >> hundreds of wells need to get tested. >> melissa ben, thank you for your time. >> thank you for having us. >> we will turn to the war in ukraine when we come back. it is now into its second year and there is really no end in sight. next, i will talk with a member of ukraine's parliament about the days ahead and what new

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sadness and outrage as we mark one year since russia invaded ukraine. right now in washington d.c., protesters are demanding more action be taken against russia president, vladimir putin, for his ongoing assault on the ukrainian people and the rising death toll that he is causing. and the demonstration is one of

many around the globe among the shows of support both building in miami, and the sydney opera house returning into virtual versions of the ukrainian flag. some of the protesters in europe, were rick rainy and refugees whose lives are on hold, where their homeland is ravaged by war. >> i want to show people, as much people as i can that we want to survive. we want a normal life. we want our lives back. i have no home now, i have no future now, but i want it back. >> white house national security adviser, dan sullivan, says that support to ukraine will continue despite a fight in congress. but the u.s. has unveiled new sanctions against russia, and it is squeezing them out financially. but for when the war will actually come to an end? u.n. ambassador told our andrea mitchell that that is entirely up to vladimir putin. >> it is in his hands to pull

his troops out of ukraine. if he does it today, the war is -- ukrainians are fighting for their lives. so they can't stop fighting as long as they are being attacked by russia. but russia can stop today, and the war is over. >> the ukrainian parliament was in session yesterday, despite the sounds of sirens across the country. i am so pleased to be joined by ukrainian parliament member, lisa yasko. a year ago, did you think that ukraine would still be in the position it isn't today? >> a year ago was a completely different time. a year ago, we were not sure that we would survive. we were only thinking about tomorrow. and still a year after, we don't have plans, we don't have certainty. but something that we know for sure that we are fighting for

freedom, not only for ukraine, but also for the world. we are very happy when we see so much solidarity coming to ukraine. i am currently in -- i see so many solidarity with ukraine and it is so incredibly important to me as a ukrainian, and a politician. i know that it happens all over the world, which means that the world is changing. the world thinks not only about ukraine, but also about such values as how to not only have peace, but how to end war, and to have freedom. >> i think there are folks here in america wondering, with this past year, what it has been like for people who still live in ukraine. how has it been for you personally, for your loved ones? >> for me it is very hard, because i had a lot of tragic moments in my personal situation. i know that my life is incredibly connected to someone's, to destroy ukraine,

and the ukrainian [inaudible] and of course, that was completely different, but this is how it is. i also don't have a choice, because [inaudible] i don't want to have my children in the war. i know my generation, together with other generations of ukrainians, we are doing what we are supposed to do for the past generations that didn't achieve that, and also for the future generations. >> you are doing what you are supposed to do. i find that so profound. i know you were actually able to attend the recently when security conference, and you met with president emmanuel macron. what was the conversation you had? >> not only with macron, but

also with many congressmen. the conversation was that we are very warm and this is something that has changed during this year, because a year ago everyone was telling me and my colleagues, don't go back to ukraine, for may parliament in exile, run away from ukraine. now it is all about okay, what can we do to make sure that we have a new international order that actually works, and we are going to protect it. i am very happy to hear from such people as emmanuel macron, who admit that he had his own mistakes. he believed putin when actually, it was a mistake, and it was a lie coming from putin. and i am very happy when the leaders from france, from germany are saying it so open. it means that they have reached incredible [inaudible] in politics as well. >> before i go, i have to ask

about president biden's visit to ukraine. what were your thoughts that the american president was there earlier this week? >> i don't know any ukrainian person who would talk about president joe biden, how they are grateful that he came to ukraine, and it was such a secret visit, and how he managed to do it in such a special way. also his speech not only in ukraine, but also in poland, for us it is incredibly sign of solidarity, the symbolism that the world made a choice, it civilized world, that we are going to protect the future of freedom and the imperialism of russia, or any other possible country will be over. and this is why it is our mutual fight, where we help each other. for us, it is a question of weapons, and military support that you received from our partners. and we are very grateful that the u.s. is taking such an

important lead. this will allow us, not only to have a future, but to also save the ukrainian people, of course. >> lisa yasko, thank you for your time. i am definitely praying for the people of ukraine. i appreciate you. >> thank you. >> coming up, folks, we turn to the fight for the january 6th tapes. that is actually a thing. how house speaker mccarthy released thousands of hours of incarceration footage. my political panel will join me to talk about the security concerns, not to mention the potential for disinformation how other media are pushing back.

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just wrapped up a news conference where they tried to clear up confusion about cleanup of toxic waste. they now say that waste disposal has been halted until federal authorities can confirm disposal methods are in fact safe. but they were not able to answer a question about what data was used for ohio governor, mike dewine, to declare the water safe to drink. this is very important, because it is unclear whether that proclamation was made based on just norfolk southern testing, or the epa testing. this is something we will be following for you because you deserve answers. we turn to our political panel after more than a year of accusing the january 6th committee of what was partisan, and petty politics, house speaker kevin mccarthy apparently turned over tens of thousands of hours of unrelated capital and released capitol video from the january 6th insurrection. speaker mccarthy has only given the tapes to far-right news

host, tucker carlson. that is right, a man who devoted an entire mini series to suggest that the insurrection was a false flag. a coalition of news organizations, that includes nbc news, msnbc, and telemundo wrote to speaker mccarthy urging him to release the tapes to other news outlets. our panel joins me now to discuss, sabrina siddiqui is a white house reporter for the wall street journal. this is me, sometimes at work, sometimes it does, and we also have former democratic congresswoman donna edwards, she is an msnbc political analyst. ashley pratte oates she made her talk some tweets today, i saw that on twitter. congresswoman, as the former woman of congress, i want to start with you. many times, the chair of the january six committee said in a statement that when the select committee had access to u.s. capitol police video footage, the access was limited to members and a small handful of

investigators and senior staff, and the public use of any footage was coordinated in advance with capitol police. it was hard to overstate the potential security risk, if this material were to be used and responsibly. do you share the concerns? >> i absolutely do. we already know that there have been a real security challenges already on capitol hill, that members of the select committee, the former select committee as well as members of congress face threats and i think that it was responsible, the leader, the speaker, to release this information. it is very dangerous. then to do it so selectively so that you only have one news organization that can pick and choose what it wants to show? but look, the fact is that the american people saw with our own eyes what happened on january 6th and we have overwhelmingly concluded, as of january 6th committee has concluded, that there was an

insurrection and that people were responsible. they were beating up capitol police officers and other law enforcement and they put in danger members of congress, and they jeopardize for constitutional governance. that is a conclusion that the american people are ready to make. and kevin mccarthy really needs to step up and release all the information so that all of us can hear and see the same thing at the same time. >> i am struck by the chairman thompson's statement about the security and the coordination with capitol police. also the fact that speaker mccarthy has repeatedly claimed that he is trying to get to the truth about what happened on january 6th. i think i agree with congresswoman edwards that the truth we all saw, we saw it play out, the question really is can he really claim that that is what he wants to do if he does not respond to other news outlets requesting to make the takes widely available? >> it is again, more for outrage from republicans here

over something that they would like to say that they are transparent. but they in fact or not, they want to talk about truth but they are still peddling the big lie and doubling down on ways in which to perpetuate the big lie. this is exactly why this is so dangerous because it does pose a security threat. to not only our capital, but to our lawmakers, and we have seen the threat play out in january 6th. so by releasing the footage to only fox news, and not making it publicly available to everyone, that means every single news outlet, that does significant damage not only to public trust but to, again, the safety of our lawmakers in our nation's capital. and again, when it comes to truth we have just seen republicans continuously pedal a narrative that is false, still three years later believing that biden didn't win the election when he is the president of the united states. >> he's very obviously the president, it is too much, like the big lie, they just keep going. we are going to continue to stay on this because i think

that everyone here would like to see the tapes, and tucker carlson should not be the only person having them. i am very concerned about that. i want to talk about this train derailment disaster and east palestine, ohio, because this week former president donald trump made a visit to east palestine where he and republican senator, j.d. vance actually accuse the biden administration with indifference. now sabrina, i think that it is fair to say that we know this is not the truth. that the white house had released a tiktok and president biden quickly offered assistance to the ohio governor. i really think that the conversation here should be about how should, it is one question about how the biden administration should be pushing back about the misinformation of what they have done, but how should the media apparatus handle claims that we know very clearly to be false? >> well, i think that there are a few different elements here and one is, as you point out,

the administration's response. they have been very clear that the administration has been on the ground, that the transportation secretary, buttigieg, has been on the ground and providing resources from the federal level. at the same time, one of the questions you have to get at when you talk about republicans and their presence on the ground is how this derailment came to be. you have seen some of the white house and some democrats trying to push back against these attacks that they are indifferent by noting that it was actually the trump administration that overturned some of the obama era regulations, environmental protections and regulations around safety. that is something that has been lost in the coverage around this issue. then there is the separate question of if and when president biden will make a visit there himself. but a lot of it i think will center on how did this happen and how it can be prevented from happening again. >> absolutely, i would like to know that i think that president biden should make a visit. i know he said he wasn't

planning on going right now and i think it is an interesting choice from the white house. i am out of time, but before we go, i have to ask you about president biden's trip to ukraine. you accompanied him on that trip, you are the amazing reporter and this visit was about assuring ukraine that america stands with its people. but it was also about bolstering american support for continuing our involvement. how do you see these efforts play out during the presidents visit? >> this was definitely a day for the history books. the timing is key, it came ahead of the one year anniversary of russia's invasion of ukraine. and it really was never by president biden to show the u.s. continues to stand by ukraine at a time when you have seen some polling show that support for providing continued assistance to ukraine here in the u.s. is dissipating. as an effort to try to make the case that both the u.s. and its western allies have invested interest, and at least remain involved in the conflict by

offering military and humanitarian assistance. there is really no stronger way to get the message across than to stand there in the capital of kyiv one year after russian tanks are closing in on the city and to show that kyiv's distending and to be shoulder to shoulder with president zelenskyy. i think that is the image everyone wants to remember from that day. >> we will have to leave it there, former congresswoman donna edwards, thank you very much. now, the fulton county georgia probe of election interference took an unexpected turn this week. all because just one person. >> i don't think there are any giant plot twists coming. >> how that grand jury foreperson might have just put eight months of grinding legal work into question. with one a very bizarre media tour. medi tour boost your team's productivity with samsung's fastest processor yet. switch and save up to $1000 on the new galaxy s23 ultra. now that's epic.

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this cough. [sfx: coughs] this'll help. vicks vaporub? vicks vaporub's ...medicated vapors go straight to the source of your cough... ...so you can relieve your cough to breathe easier. vicks vaporub. fast-acting cough relief. >> eight months, 75 witnesses, hundreds of pages of testimony and now some experts fear it could all come crashing down. last week the fulton county special grand jury's findings about efforts to interfere with the 2020 election in georgia were partially released, just a bit. it is important to note that the special grand jury didn't have the power to issue indictments but the majority of the jury believes one or more witnesses may have committed perjury and that they unanimously affirmed that there was no widespread voter fraud and the 2020 election. the rest of the report is strictly for fulton county district attorney it's only.

she will then decide whether to pursue indictments. but now the jury is foreperson, emily corps, has embarked on a very polarizing media tour. here is what she had to say to nbc news is plain alexander in the first television interview about the jury's indictment recommendations. >> there definitely are names that you would expect. >> did the grand jury recommend an indictment of former president trump? >> i am not going to speak on exact indictments. i would not expect you to be too shocked, no. >> that includes of the former president, potentially? >> potentially, it might. >> here to discuss is former assistant watergate special prosecutor, jill wine-banks. i am so happy you are here. i did mention some legal experts worry about the interview, but you are not part of some, why? >> i am not.

i admit that there is an argument about what lying she may or may not have crossed. let's put it in context, this is a special process granary, it is not a regular grand jury. as you pointed out, simone, they do not indict. secondly, they operate under the rules and laws and ethics of the georgia courts and the georgia judge said you may talk about your experience on the grand jury, you just can't talk about the exact deliberations and the outcome. i think she skirted that line, but she stayed on the right side of that. she didn't say who got indicted, she talked about her experience like, oh, i love swearing in rudy giuliani, i got to shake his hand. i personally was only thinking about where his hand had been, but other than, that she talked about people's character, whether they were funny or not,

whether they answered questions or not. >> it was kind of like she was like a political fan, if you will. just being in the middle of the process. >> yes, that is what we expect our jurors to be. they are citizens, who in this case are exposed to national figures. it is not surprising that she would be excited about this. it is concerning that georgia allows this, but she did not say anything that could potentially hurt, and although trump's lawyers, and other potential defendants lawyers are saying we are going to sue to stop any indictments because this is political, it is and! she didn't say anything that would hurt them. there's nothing that would hurt them. it is up to a completely separate graduate to decide. >> i want to play what how many witnesses had immunity deals already in place before testifying, take a listen to this part.

>> maybe a dozen? maybe? at the most? >> where they high-level people? >> i don't think that he would recognize any of the names. >> any of the members of the former presidents inner circle? >> like i said, i don't think that you would recognize any of the names. >> she also said, to the best of her recollection, one person was offered immunity in the room. you are talking about the legal maneuvers donald trump and his team might try, what does all of this signal to you about the strength of the testimony before the special grand jury? >> i think the testimony is exactly what we are expecting, that it will be strong, that it will support the district attorney charges, which i am going to guess starts a new grand jury, and because of another audit rule in georgia, which limits the time in which to go to trial, after the end of the grand jury that indites,

that she did not want to indict in the grand jury that ends on february 28th, which would have been too soon, that she was waiting for the march grand jury. when she said eminent, i am thinking imminent after the march grand jury starts. that is what i am hoping. and anything that emily corps, the person disclosed, would be made in two ways. in the indictment, and in the report which would eventually be released publicly. it just won't be until indictments are out there so that no one who might get indicted would be hurt by being named in advance. they will be named in the indictment. there is no harm in what she did, and i think imminent is soon. >> all right, eminent is soon. thank you, jill wine-banks throwing cold water on the press this week. thank you so much for your time. and thank you for watching

symone on this saturday. i am simone sanders thompson and you can catch me right here at 4 pm eastern anytime, where i have new episodes on the msnbc hub every monday. if you all want more of the show, including behind the scenes videos, you will find us on instagram, twitter, and the tiktok. politics nation with the great reverend al sharpton starts right after this break. is break ya know, if you were cashbacking you could earn on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack. switch to a king suite- or book a silent retreat. silent retreat? hold up - yeeerp? i can't talk right now, i'm at a silent retreat. cashback on everything you buy with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. (psst psst)

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politicsnation. tonight's lead, facts versus fiction. right now, the war in ukraine is entering its second year and invasion vladimir puti