it's hard to believe. - he wanted more. it's addictive. and so the desire to continue it, the desire to be in the limelight is something many people can't give up. - after 9/11, rudy didn't only have a refurbished name and a reputation, but he had a brand. - almost the moment it was over, you turned around and create this consulting firm where you're literally selling your 9/11 bona fides for money. marjorie taylor greene is calling for a national voyage between red and blue states. i will explain why that is a very

dangerous recipe for violence and mike pence wants you to see him as the 2024 alternative to trump, but news flash mike, you are still doing trump's bidding if he refused to testify about january the 6th. plus, florida republican education has been so big, so much bigger than banning critical race theory. i thought rhonda sentence was for freedom? we need to talk about divorce. specifically, marjorie taylor greene and divorce. not her divorce, i don't care about her private life, in fact i wish you were a private citizen so i didn't have to talk about her at all. the problem, if she is a very public figure. a bombastic member of congress, an influential gop member of the house, who this week called for a quote, unquote national divorce. a literal dissolution of the union, severing the

country and get to frankenstein patch's of so-called red states and blue states. we are done with the united states of america, she said. we are done. she did not muse about the notion, she didn't play rhetorical footsie with the idea, she explicitly stated that america should be torn. she once more decided to offer details about how her fever dream system would work. >> so congresswoman greene, i want to make sure i understand you correctly, were you saying that we should have it cooling off period to say that people should not be able to vote for a couple of years if they move from a blue state to a red state? >> it would be something i would highly recommend. with the mass exodus of states like california and new york where people who have lived in these democrat states all their lives, and really just don't know any other way, and then when they move somewhere like florida, or georgia, or texas, or another red state and they just really, they always love it, and they are just praising how wonderful it is, but yet election time they turn around and vote democrat like they always have.

well, they really are like newcomers ruining our beautiful red state. >> i have no words. actually, yes i do. what a spectacularly stupendous lead dumb idea. you want to deny the right to vote to millions of americans because they moved house? how can this be real? they are not hiding their anti-democratic views, are they? also, how would any of this even work? how would you split up the states. sure, i guess alabama is red, and hawaii is blue, but what about georgia? yes, marjorie taylor greene's home state, democrat joe biden secured it in the 2020 election. he won georgia! it has not won, but two democratic senators. but republicans to hold the governor's mansion there and the state house. so georgia, is the peach state red,

or blue? will we cut it in half, congresswoman? and we are getting ahead of ourselves because sure, some states are more obviously ruby red, or navy blue, take california. but marjorie taylor greene must realize that there are still millions and millions of republicans happily residing in california. so issue proposing a forced mass migration, will it bff, kevin mccarthy need to sell his home in california? i recognize that the congresswoman has a grasp of u. s. history so there is next to no chance that she is aware of other countries histories, but other countries have pursued proposals like this before. consider my own parents home country, india, where the 1947 partition of the sub continent by the british into the independent nations of hindu majority india and muslim majority pakistan. that effort involved one of the largest mass migrations in human history and it was marred by unspeakable, horrific violence. millions dead and displaced. the scars of which haunt geopolitics to this day. look, we know that none of this is going to happen in america, at

least anytime soon, thankfully. there is no national divorce on the horizon, right now. so the real question here is what is the point of this ridiculous rhetoric? well, i would argue the point is to rile up a very particular, very ugly undercurrent in american politics and an undercurrent that is no longer an undercurrent. the goal is to get people, mainly white people, mainly conservative people, mainly people living in quote, unquote real america, red america, dangerously angry. to radicalize their racial grievances. to indulge their sense of victimhood. to turn them against their neighbors. but especially against washington d. c., and the two coasts. and understand this -- marjorie taylor greene has been doing this for a long time. >> we are all targets now, though. for daring to push back against the regime and it doesn't stop at a weaponized legal system. i am not going to win, mince words with you all.

democrats want republicans instead, and they already started the killings. >> they have already started the killings. you are maybe thinking that it's bonkers, but republican green has been saying inflammatory and interest things for decades and that is true. but those previous kooks, and previous decades did not have a quote, ironclad bombed with the speaker of the house as greene does. those previous kooks were called out by so-called moderates in their own republican party when they proposed things as crazy as a national divorce. that sadly is just not the case anymore. >> when i asked you last month about serving on the homeland security committee, you said that you think she has matured and is trying to become a team player, do you still think that when you hear something like that? >> i don't speak for her, the great thing about this country is that we can have political dialogue, discourse. we are a democracy, we have differences

on opinions. >> a difference of opinion. i guess you have to respect the intellectual diversity of the modern republican party. some members think that america should exist, others feel we should play king solomon with the statue of liberty. again, just going back to how this mad idea would work. how would you connect state in these two new countries? and what all of these newly divorced and independent red states even form a new country with one another? what would they call it? it confederacy, perhaps? it is worth noting here that in 1860 and 1861, ultimately 11 states, including notably georgia opted to leave the union in order to maintain their practice of slavery. they were then defeated on the battlefield and rightly so. fast forward, the entire civil war, and 200 american years, we moved on from that dangerous craziness. yet, lo and behold here is another georgian who in the name of hate, bigotry, and extremism wants to break up our

great nation. joining me now is barbara walter, author of how civil wars start, and how to stop them. and catherine stewart, author of the power worshippers inside the dangerous rise of religious nationalism. thank you both for joining me tonight. catherine, let me start with you. no rational person thinks marjorie taylor greene thinks national divorce is about to come about anytime soon, at least. but they still must be a reason why she is talking about it, what do you believe the political incentives here? who is she targeting with her message? >> well, we have to recognize that her comments are not going to diminish her standing in the republican party. she is speaking to a base of supporters that have been in these kinds of lies, and extremism. and the big question here is where is the republican leadership? are they really okay with members of their own

party calling for splitting of the country, and spreading these extremist conspiracies? democrats have not moved all that much, and now there is a center right. but there is a far-right, green is on it, and it has gone way out there and jumped off the diving board and republican leadership really seems to be fine with that. she was given a position, marjorie taylor greene, on the house committee, on homeland security. how is threatening to break up our country and turn americans against fellow americans remotely beneficial for our security? >> yes, catherine, where is the republican leadership -- where's waldo. you have written a book on civil wars, you studied how civil wars come about and you think that we may actually be perilously close to another u. s. civil war, don't you? that this might not just be idle rhetoric. >> it is really interesting to look back into the 18 50s here in the united states. you see parallels. one of the things,

to answer your first question, or to go further with it, one of the interesting things about marjorie taylor greene is that i actually think that she would like a national divorce. i do not think that she is making this up or playing to a base. this would be her ideal outcome. she truly believes that america should continue to be run by white americans, by christian americans, and the republican party can't get that at the national level. so the only way that she can get her ultimate goal is if in fact the red states separate. if you look back into the 1850s, you had this group of landowners, the slave holders, the plantation holders. and they just really wanted to hold on to their slaves. and they knew that they were being challenged by the growing north and by the growing wave of abolitionists.

their challenge was that the average southerner, who tended to be white, working class southerners did not necessarily want to separate. they had no gain, they had no incentive to want to fight a war. and they would be the ones on the battlefield, losing their lives. and so, the plantation owners spent years and years and years trying to convince the white working class in the south that this was absolutely necessary, and they did it through fearmongering, they did it through arguing that freed slaves were going to wrap their wives and their children. and it was a very effective strategy. it took years of that narrative to bring them around. i think that this is a form of that, it is a strategy. >> it is a long game that they are playing, sadly. catherine, to return to your gop leadership point, what does it tell you that mitt romney, as ever, is really the only top republican to call this stuff out? he told reporters at the salt lake tribune, quote, i think that abraham lincoln dealt with that kind of insanity, we are not going to

divide the country we unite a least an undivided, we fall. to go back to other incentives, other republicans have no incentive for this. we played a clip of michael mccaul. because they know that a lot of people in their base, like this kind of rhetoric. >> it is true, a big question in american politics today is whether the republican party will continue with this march towards irrational-ism and authoritarianism, whether instead it will moderate. if you look at some of the front runners for the republican nomination, were contenders for the public republican nomination, i think that the answer is pretty clear. in a healthy two party system, both parties have to compromise or agree to disagree on certain issues. but if one party says if you don't agree with me give me every single thing i want, i will bring down the house, and break up the union, or tolerates that type of language and spreads conspiracies, really a two party system becomes un-workable. marjorie

taylor greene represents the part of the gop that would frankly destroy democracy itself. >> i wonder whether they would even do it in a democratic way. would you have a referendum in each state to see whether they want to join a blue side or a red side? what do they do have georgia picks the blue side? how widespread a civil war rhetoric on the right? how much do we risk it becoming a self fulfilling prophecy? >> there has not been any hard data collected yet. i can tell you anecdotally, it is certainly seeming to be on the rise. two years ago no one was talking about a civil war. people are talking about it now. i actually think that that it's a good thing because most people are surprised about political violence, breaking out, it is usually because they are going about their daily business and this gives extremists the chance to organize and take them by surprise. but the thing about

marjorie taylor greene, that i want to emphasize is that she is presenting this as if it would be relatively innocent, and in fact it might be a good thing for everybody. and not simply wrong. the reality is, you pointed out earlier that there are a lot of republicans living in blue states, and a lot of democrats living in red states. separation is not going to be as easy as it was in the first civil war. and the other point is, if you look across all countries, separatist movements tend to be the most violent, the longest of wars. it is the issue over which governments simply will not negotiate. so this notion that red states are going to say, we are going to leave the union, and the u. s. federal government is going to do nothing, has almost no historical presidents.

>> then again, marjorie taylor greene is unaware of any historical precedence. thank you both for your analysis, i appreciate it. coming up, donald trump is hoping the surprise media top by the georgia special grand jury person, complete with giggles will help his legal case. if he really going to get off because of it? i will ask former prosecutor, barbara mcquade what she thinks, next. ext. she found it. the feeling of finding the psoriasis treatment she's been looking for.

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donald j trump from prosecution in georgia? >> there are indictments recommended, of course. is it more than 12 people, is it more than 20 people? >> i think if you look at the page numbers of the report there is about six pages in the middle that got cut out. allow for spacing, it is not a short list. >> not a short list. >> [laughter] >> that was emily coles, the 4% of the special grand jury

tasked with investigating trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. this week, her bizarre media towards the legal world reeling, trump's lawyers claiming that -- of fulton county da fani willis's entire investigation. others argue that wall the interviews were not helpful, because she didn't have any material effect on willis's case, however even if tough on trump was able to escape accountability in georgia he still has counsel jack smith to deal with. this week, smith asked a federal judge to compel former vice president mike pence to testify before a federal grand jury about trump's plot to hold on to power. here to discuss is barbara mcquade, she's a professor at the university of michigan law school and a former u. s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. she's also an msnbc legal analyst. thank you for coming on the show tonight. in a recent piece he did for msnbc. com, you wrote that as an

american citizen you are gratified to hear that the georgia special grand jury had recommended indictments against more than a dozen people. but as a former prosecutor you are quote, mortified that a grand jury was talking about it publicly. in your professional history, have you ever seen conduct like this from the grandeur? >> not at all. the rules in georgia are a bit different from the rules i am accustomed to in any matter of grand jury's secret. so grand jurors do not talk about the witnesses, they don't talk about charges, they don't talk about who got -- the reason for that is to protect the integrity of the investigation as well as the reputation of the accused. the situation is a bit different, it has been a very high profile investigation. no surprise who has been there testifying. also, the rules in georgia prohibit a grand jury solely from saying, disclosing the deliberations of the grand jury. i think that she was careful to follow those. and disclosing that they

were socializing with members of the da's office, she talked about scoring in a witness while holding a ninja turtle popsicle she had obtained at an ice cream party thrown by the da's office. that makes the hair stand on my neck. >> for many reasons. as the member of a special grand jury, you said that she is allowed to give these interviews. but did anything she reveal aside from the ninja turtle stuff crossed the line, could this media towards somehow lead to a dismissal making it, my view, donald trump the luckiest man on earth? >> probably not. i do think that demonstrating that the grand jury was socializing with the prosecutors office could be problematic because it tends to undermine the independence of the grand jury. because of the unusual situation in georgia, where they first had the special grand jury that recommends charges, and then they have another grand jury which actually issues the charges, i

think that there is any thing that could be cured by the second grand jury which is a second bite of the apple, so to speak. i think in the end it is probably not going to be a legal problem but i think that it is a political problem. i think that it is creating an issue for appeal, and it would create issues -- and it gives part of the talking points to donald trump, which he doesn't need any more of those. >> indeed, he doesn't. let's switch gears to special counsel jack smith's investigation. if he succeeds and compelling former vp, mike pence, to testify, what questions should he ask as a prosecutor if pence were in front of you right now tonight? what would you like to know? >> i would most want to know about conversations with donald trump when they were the only two people around. we heard from some of mike pence's aides about some of their conversations but i would want to hear about things that only mike pence can testify about. and just as important as finding out anything new, -- so that he can't change the story later. and what you don't want is a year from now in this case goes [inaudible] testifying for

the defense, and saying things that are helpful for donald trump, and then when asked why didn't you say this earlier, he would be able to say nobody asked me. but he said all kinds of exonerating things at the time. so i think that just asking him about everything up to january 6th, and even after that, to just launch him into what are the facts that he knows? whatever they are, we just need to know them. >> what about if he claims executive privilege, i can't private conversations with the president of the united states? >> i think executive privilege is not going to block testimony. you go back to the u. s. versus nixon case that says that it is a qualified privilege and that it is appealed when there is a more important consideration for the united states for the country. and in that case, a grand jury investigation did outweigh the interest of executive privilege. i don't think that he will be able to hide behind that. >> let's see what he can hide from. if i had mike pence in

front of me i would only have two questions. number one, why do you want to be nominee of the hang mike pence party, and number two, where is your spine? those are my two questions. i don't think i would ever get to asking those to questions. barbara mcquade, thank you so much for posing more important questions for mike pence, i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming, up a disturbing update on ron desantis's ongoing autocratic war against our education system. e teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated custom scans help you find new trading opportunities while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market

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just stop. go for a run. go for ten runs. run a marathon. instead, start small with nicorette, which will lead to something big. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> nowhere have conservatives stripped the word freedom of all meaning more than in florida. >> number one in education freedom, number one in parental

involvement in education. we are also number one in education freedom and i think we will bolster that ranking significantly after this legislative session. we were the nations citadel of freedom. we, in florida, are the lights. freedom will reign supreme with florida leading the way. >> republican governor ron desantis goes on and on about freedom. but does that mean he supports freedom? freedom for women? no. freedom to vote? no, not that either. he has brought on restrictions on both. he's become infamous for trying to restrict what students can learn through his stop will act. something even worse is brewing in the sunshine state. this week, a republican florida state representative introduced h b 999, a bill that would ban all gender studies and critical race theory minors and majors at florida state universities, and all funding for -- the rewriting of university

mission statements. -- the board of trustees will be able to review every faculty member's tenure status at any time. it's a full-on attack on higher education in the state. jeremy young, senior manager of free expression and expression at pan america says, quote, it would virtually and academic freedom and institutional autonomy at all public colleges and universities in florida. jeremy joins me now. thank you so much for coming on tonight. and do you believe this is the most dangerous and censorious higher education bill in america? if, so why exactly? how bad is it? >> this is unquestionably the worst bill we've seen in years and decades, perhaps forever. it's not even close to some of the other bills that we've seen in other places. this bill would go beyond recent attempts to restrict classroom teaching and speech in higher education, classrooms

and readings. it would restrict instead entire universities. among other provisions, it would require that general education classes include only material that promotes, quote, the values necessary to preserve the constitutional republic and traditional historically accurate course work and ban general education courses based on, quote, unproven theoretical or exploratory content. this is a bill that would really and academic freedom in higher education. not just certain course areas, but at all times, and all campuses everywhere. it really is a bill that would make florida the place where public higher education goes to die. >> and that is definitely serious, definitely worrying, definitely dangerous. i'm not surprised, honestly, by the bills battle on critical race theory. i have -- why ban gender studies? what are they so afraid of there? >> it's the same old song, really. it's this idea that any topic in the humanities or interdisciplinary fields that includes jargon or language

that is not immediately obvious to the reader without study is somehow a poison pill for marxism or some kind of extreme ideology. it's really a conspiracy theory that leads to the banning of these topics, regarding race, lgbtq identity, regarding gender. it is -- the most important thing to empathize about this bill and bills like it is that they are using ideas like gender studies, critical race theory, diversity, equity, inclusion as wedge issues in order to really facilitate the takeover of public higher education by one man. >> talking of one man, someone comparing desantis to hungarian prime minister viktor orban, who has also attacked and hijacked his country's education system. the government there banned gender studies, prevented teacher -- what do you make of that comparison? is desantis taking a page from the orban autocratic playbook? >> this is an orban-style bill, there is no question about it.

this is a bill that wreaks of authoritarianism. it's a bill that would take power away from all constituents at a university, including university presidents, deans, administrators, as well as faculty, staff, and students, and would centralize it in the hands of politicians. that is exactly what we have seen in places like hungary and poland, russia and china. it's absolutely a bill that is reminiscent of those kinds of international authoritarian regimes. no question. >> that is deeply depressing, but i'm glad you are sounding the alarm. jeremy young of p.e.n. america, think you for your time. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up, when it comes to politics, we live in two americas. how does the rest of the world see our one actual america and our leaders? i will ask a british author and journalist who has a fascinating new book out on the american presidency through history. plus, don't forget, you can listen to the mehdi hassan show anytime free wherever you get your podcasts.

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>> first lady jill biden says it's not a matter of if her husband will run for reelection, but when he makes it official. on friday, she told the associated press, quote, he's not done. he's not finished what he started. former president trump already announced his presidential bid back in november. the question we need to ask is, do voters want a biden trump rematch in 2024? a recent washington post abc news poll found 15% of democrats would rather nominate a different candidate instead of joe biden for 2024. that same poll found 49% of republicans preferring someone other than trump to be there 2024 nominee. that got me thinking. how does the u.s. look to the rest of the world as we prepare to nominate to candidates who voters are at best lukewarm on for president next year? who better to ask then lbc radio host in the uk, evendale.

he's out with a new book called the presidents, 250 years of american political leadership which takes a detailed look at all 46 presidents and he joins me now from washington d. c. where he is on a book tour in -- pleasure to have you on the show. congratulations on a fascinating book. let's start asking the question on a lot of people's minds, what do you think people around the world, especially in the uk, where you are based, think about the idea of a biden trump rematch in 2024? do you think we are bonkers for entertaining the idea, especially trump running again, after everything that happened on january the 6th? >> in short, yeah. it doesn't really matter whether you are on the right or left of politics. we scratch our heads and think, is it really the best america can do to dredge up the same candidates from last time, both of whom are actually, say,

getting on in life. i'm not being a just. if you are stretching credulity to think that it is a good idea to have a president in his early 80s. trump would also be in his early 80s by the time of a second term, if he won. there must be better people out there. that's what most people seem to think. >> it's interesting, the polling trend even democrats, little democrats think perhaps for the reasons you outlined it might be better to go with someone else. although, joe biden showed a lot of energy and vigor on his secret multi our journey to ukraine. he pushed back critics with that walk around with zelenskyy. your book opens with the writing about how trump's rise is often seen as unprecedented. but when you compare him to andrew jackson and andrew johnson, you say trump isn't actually sui generis. tell us more about that. in my own view, the world has never seen anyone like donald inject yourself with disinfectant -- trump. >> you are right. when you look back at the presidents in the 1950s, which

i have to say before i started a book i knew very little about. one of the things i wanted to do the book, to bring some of these characters from the early presidencies to life, not just for the world audience, but also american audiences. andrew jackson was in the trump of his day. he was seen as a populist, an extremist in some ways. he was the ultimate disruptor. i think that's how trump came into politics. i remember interviewing donald trump back in 2012. it was a perfectly normal interview. he had not got into the race, obviously, at that point, but he was thinking about it. it was just an interview, and interviewer interviewing a presidential aspirant. he was funny, humorous, he was engaging company. i don't know what happened in the four years between 2012 to 2016 when he became this weird character. but we constantly underestimate donald trump. i think a lot of people on the left of american politics tend to underestimate those on the right. they did it with george w. bush v. they characterized as stupid. he was not stupid. in his words, they misunderstood mated him.

they did with nixon back in the 60s as. well they did it with ronald reagan, he turned out to be one of america's greatest presidents. >> we will have to disagree on that. that's a conversation for another day. george bush, interesting, we agree with you in the sense that he was not stupid in the kind of -- well, he didn't have much knowledge of the world, clearly, but he's on a rehabilitation tour of his own, swapping golf clubs with michelle obama. i plan to do a very deep dive on my show in the coming weeks as we mark the 20th anniversary of the iran war -- with tony blair. let's talk about other presidents. the last chapter talks about how americans, american historians, political scientists have been obsessed with ranking the 46 presidents. i've got to ask the question, forgive me, who are your top three picks and why? >> i'm not sure they are necessarily the best presidents, but i would pick ronald reagan as one of them because i think,

the carter presidency is undergoing a bit of ridge revision-ism at the moment. -- about how the right should see carter's presidency as foreshadowing donald, or predicting the rise of donald trump in some ways, it stretches credulity a little bit to do that. obviously, the president cannot -- we know that he is about to leave us. there will be a lot of concentration on that. if you think what america was like back in 1980, it was a pretty depressing place to be in many ways. like britain in the late 1970s as well. the economy was tanking, you had the iran hostage crisis. and then ronald reagan comes in and transforms the political landscape. we would disagree on the ultimate success of that, but i think -- >> he was certainly transformative. >> he gave america hope again -- without reagan, i don't think the cold war would have ended as soon as it did.

it might have done but we will never know. i think he was absolutely, with margaret thatcher, totally behind that. i think he's certainly one of them. lyndon johnson is a character that fascinates a lot of british politicians, particularly -- >> i'm going to jump in and cut you off because you said margaret thatcher. . but on margaret thatcher, i've got to ask -- you host a very popular nightly radio show in london. explain to our american viewers, if american politics is crazy, why is british politics saying, hold my beer? how many british prime ministers will we get through the next 12 months? >> one. i can confidently predict that. look, british politics has been quite balmy over the past three or four years, a lot of reasons for that. we've undergone almost a sort of national nervous breakdown in some ways politically. i think calm has been restored

and i think rishi sunak, the new prime minister, is bringing a sense of calm to the office. the northern ireland protocol difficulties we've had in brexit seems to be about to be resolved. i think that can harold at the start of hopefully a calmer era for the whole country around politics. >> for american viewers, i will have to say, at least rishi sunak has outlasted a lettuce. thank you so much for your time tonight, iain dale. the presidents, 250 years of american political leadership is the name of the book. it is out now. coming up at the top of the our with eamonn mullah dean come congresswoman barbara lee on her new bid for the senate in california and what is at stake if a trump appointed judge blocks access to medication abortion nationwide. you've got to watch that interview that amen has done with barbara. that is coming up shortly. but before that, amen and i are going to chat onset together for the first time about a woman from georgia who wants to take our country away from us. don't go away.

go away.

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we'll be right back here next sunday 8 pm eastern. you can find the show on the msnbc hub on peacock and you episodes of the many hassan show on peacock land there. i am moving in back next week, i won't be back here, per se. i will be back in washington d. c.. this week, i am in new york city at 30 rock. my good friend ayman from far

away. >> in the flesh. >> we still have our -- -- >> and the ideas of what we can talk about? >> i don't know if you saw the start of my show. i talked -- >> you are from georgia? you went to high school in georgia? >> i was just there. >> let's talk about georgia, marjorie taylor greene, who wants to split up the country. she wants a national divorce. i should not be using the word divorce. she wants a national divorce. split the country up. i know we've play this game before, you and i, the two brown, muslim folks on msnbc. i'm going to play it again tonight. imagine it -- said let's tear america down, let's tear it apart, let's destroy it, the united states of america. would the reaction be on the right? would they be smiling this week and agree with marjorie taylor greene? >> i think you would have a meltdown of epic proportions on the republican side. you would have both members of congress, or anyone who suggests it's perhaps -- they would rightfully recommend that that member of congress

should be expelled, certainly stripped of her committees, not ignored, and not have people like kevin mccarthy ignore her comments. but this is where we are. as you pointed out in your show, the idea is so dumb. how do you even explain to marjorie taylor greene that you have a state like georgia that has, for now two rounds, elected to democratic senators, went to joe biden for a pretty convincing -- and at the same time has multiple democratic representatives. what color would she consider that state? >> where would she end up in this new country? it also goes to the heart of something i feel strongly about and i know you do as well. you say where is kevin mccarthy? the next question, where are the democrats on? this why are the democrats and not running ads on this? why are they not calling her on the floor?

for years, the republican body have used anti-american as a cudgel against that left. you are not real america. you want to destroy america. you want to literally tear down the united states of america. is there anything more anti-american than suggesting america should not exist? surely that should -- millions of americans who moved to red states, quote unquote, should not be allowed to vote, it's an open goal, democrats, take it. >> this is a party that likes departed self on being -- >> the flag. 50 states? >> all about patriotism. to your point, we have people like donald trump telling members of congress to go back to their countries. so beyond the hypocrisy and the silence of it, to your point, the democrats just don't do politics the same way. i don't think people still take marjorie taylor greene serious. but here is the scary thing, to your point, a couple years ago we looked at an outlier within the republican party, no one will take her seriously. look at her now. she is a major powerbroker in the republican party. jimmy gomez was a macho yesterday, congressman jimmy gomez, he was saying she is the neck to the mccarthy had.

mccarthy may be the face. he may be in the face of the republican party. she is the one that is turning it. she gets away with these comments. >> she gets away with it. you are right to say the danger. on my show, i've talked about how it's easy to laugh at her. but she's dangerous. >> ignore her at your own peril. >> this country ignores her at their own peril. i think about my kids growing up in america with a republican party pushing this kind of rhetoric, this kind of division, this kind of separation, what kind of america and we want to live in going forward? an america where everyone is at each other's next, states are being pitched against each other? i, mean i don't see -- >> democrats, the party of divisiveness when they have a sitting member of congress calling for a complete dissolution of the united states. mehdi, great to see you, my friend. >> great to see you too. >> i am excited talk to you about the book next week. we will save that for the end of the week. >> come back to that. thanks, amy. >> great to see you here in new york. coming up on ayman, great news for president biden's 2024 prospects. i will discuss the developments with congresswoman barbara lee of california and ask about her new bid for the u.s. senate. plus, election deniers are still finding ways to exert influence, even after losing their midterm races. colorado secretary of state

griswold on the long fight ahead. internal divisions, the gop doesn't know what to do about ukraine and the opposing sides are coming out swinging at each other. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. so the 2024 presidential races taking shape, yes you heard me correctly, i am talking about 2024. first lady, jill biden, just give one of the clear signs yet that president biden will run for reelection giving the associated press, there's pretty much nothing less to do but figure at the time in place for the announcement. and for the president there actually maybe no better time than the president, a new and pr poll has biden with his highest travel rating it almost a year. 49% among registered voters. many have donald trump who is not tearing as well, according to the same poll. the majority of republicans, and right-leaning independents prefer someone other than trump at the