really top secret classified. you don't want that in the public domain as a record. you don't want it going before the grand jury. there's a lot of elements, but the special counsel is moving fast. >> terrific reporting as always from political investigations reporter for "the guardian," hugo lowell. we'll speak again soon. thank you for getting up early with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. but your train exploded and who do we blame? who do we blame? we blame buttigieg. pete buttigieg. this was his responsibility, unfortunately. he was too busy being a nerd and being gay to have dealt with the very much more important issue of should trains have big poison. and, i have to tell you, i call him pete butt. i call him pete butt.

there's no way around it, that's just the best one. believe me, i've tried it every which way, and it really doesn't get better than pete butt. but this would have never happened under my administration. people are saying i made the trains less safe. not true, okay? not true. i did a lot for trains. i made them bigger, faster, less safe perhaps, but -- >> yeah, perhaps you did. >> perhaps. >> "saturday night live's" take on donald trump's recent trip to east palestine, ohio. meanwhile, president joe biden says he doesn't have plans to visit the town devastated by the train disaster, and we'll have his comments on why. plus, the first lady seems to have given away the president's plans for 2024. we'll play for you what she said. also ahead, a weekend of deadly russian strikes in ukraine brings more attention to the debate over supplying ukrainian forces with fighter jets. and a new report from the department of energy on the

origins of covid. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, february 27th. with us, we have the most of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. the host of politics nation, action network, rev al sharpton. former press secretary, msnbc host now, jen psaki. her show debuts on sunday, march 19th. >> i can't wait for that. >> i can't wait. >> i'm celebrating it along with jen today. you'll notice, jonathan lemire, we are in our celtic green. ready to celebrate this. speaking of boston sports, jonathan lemire, the pitch clock, it's a good thing. games that weren't were 3 hours and 30 minutes, 2 hours and 30 minutes. >> yeah, first of all, i should have gotten the memo of the celtic green, being the biggest

celtics fan here on the panel. they had a great win saturday night in philadelphia with a buzzer beater. i'm with you, joe. this is a game changer in major league baseball. we only had a couple days of spring training, but the pitch clock is here and it is a good thing. the games were clocking in at 2 hours and 30 minutes, 2 hours and 45 minutes. barely any broke the 3-hour mark, and that is a refreshing change from what we've seen in recent years, where the games would extend 3, 3 1/2, 4 hours long. shorter games is good for attention spans and kids who can see more of it. over the weekend, we had our first bit of controversy, though, with the clock, involving our red sox. you've heard of a walk-off. this was a clock-off. >> this was a -- >> what? >> -- clock-off where they did walk-off. look at this. talk about anti-climatic. took him more than 8 seconds to give him the batter's box.

strike three with bases loaded, game tied. >> game over. >> you're out. sit down, baby. sit down. you know, the thing is, though, you know, there's some people whining out there. the rules are the rules are the rules. but you thought the end of the super bowl was anti-climatic. wah-wah-wah. how about this for a segue, reverend al. she killed hamlet in the first act. he's running. >> she said, ready to run. >> he's ready to run. i mean, yeah, not a lot of question left on that one. >> yeah, the irony of her saying that is, it was not too long ago, president biden was saying he was going to consult with his family. he was going to see what everyone thought. he had to get ready. now, she's saying he is ready,

which clearly signals that she's fine with it. so we're all left with no suspense here. we're just waiting for the formality of him to make the announcement. i don't think many people that work closely with him and those of us who have access to him doubted he was up for the run. it was just a matter of the final decision. the first lady has announced, in many ways, what the decision is. it's sort of like what i want to know, what we're doing on "morning joe," i call mika. >> exactly. >> well, you're right. >> she tells ya. >> that is asst -- astute. >> what are we doing? >> you're a little close. there is a line here. don't cross it. can we get to the first lady? here's dr. jill biden on her husband and whether or not he might run.

>> well, he says he's not done. he's not finished what he started, and that's what is important. i think look at all that joe has done, has accomplished. i mean, he brought us out of the chaos, and he did that. he was elected because people wanted steady leadership. i think they saw that in joe. they saw his character. >> so is all that's left at this point is just to figure out a time and place for the announcement? >> pretty much. >> okay. >> okay. >> we'll leave that right there because nobody said it better. let's get to the top story this morning. president biden says he doesn't have plans to visit the site of that train derailment and toxic chemical spill in ohio. he made the comments to reporters on friday while defending his administration's handling of the situation in east palestine.

>> you know, we were there two hours after the train went down, two hours. i've spoken with every single major figure in both pennsylvania and in ohio. so the idea that we're not engaged is just simply not there. initially, there was not a request for me to go out, even before i was heading over to kyiv. so i'm keeping very close tabs on it. we're doing all we can. >> again, as he said, jen, he was asked two -- or they checked in two hours afterwards. the administration has been on the ground pretty much ever since. so when you have the house oversight committee launching an investigation into pete buttigieg and his response, this is once again the republicans just stepping into a mess that they've made for themselves because, of course, every

democrat and every newspaper and every fair-minded person, they're going to look at the train derailments during the trump administration where people died, and trump didn't even think about going out there. >> exactly. i mean, we're here because of all the deregulation of the train industry during the trump administration and because the train industry and the train lobbyists spent almost $500 million over the course of a decade trying to prevent regulation that would make trains safer, right, and make this type of accident we saw last week, prevent this type of accident from happening. but a couple things i think are true. i mean, one, i saw -- so we saw from there, i think, the president is a little bit defensive, right? i'm sure his team in the white house is like, ah, there is no reason to be defensive. we've done a lot of stuff here, right? that's because he's clearly frustrated about the critique. there's some good reason for

that, because of the deregulation, but there is also this thing hanging out there of why he hasn't gone yet, right? while he said he wasn't going to go, i'm a little -- you know, they evaluate that type of thing in a white house day by day. >> exactly. >> i suspect there is a reason he hasn't gone, but i wouldn't rule out him never going. if it is still a problem at the end of the week, they'll have to assess that. >> absolutely. >> again, it is important to underline the fact, let's underline the fact and say it very slowly so our friends in trump's orbit can understand it, it was donald trump who actually took off some of the safety rules, some of those safety regulations that actually made this sort of train transport more dangerous. >> right. >> they deregulated it. this is on them. again, when trains derailed

during the trump administration, when trains derailed and people died during the trump administration, donald trump never went there. he hardly mentioned it. again, so it's just the height of hypocrisy and it's just, again, you don't say this to try to defend anybody in the biden administration. i once again find myself pushing the rock up the hill, trying to help my former republican brothers and sisters from looking stupid. and stepping into a fight that only hurts you in the end. that's all you do. and this is yet another example of it. it is your deregulation that helped cause this, and it is donald trump, the very president claiming joe biden should have been there. they wouldn't even go to train derailments when people died. the hypocrisy is just there for everybody to see. >> i agree. i also think, whether biden shows up there or not, given the

fact they've been on the ground since two hours after it happened, is such a distraction from the real questions. number one, the questions of the company, obviously. secondly, the governors that made decisions on how to deal with it and local politicians who we have to look at exactly what happened here, decisions that were made, whether to burn it, what to do. those decisions had a direct impact on what is happening for people on the ground and whether or not it is impacting their death. i mean, look at that. there are a lot of questions. whether joe biden takes a flight there today, tomorrow, yesterday is really not the most important one. it is going to be how to fix that, and whether or not that has a permanent impact on the health of the people of east palestine. >> again, the only time it matters is for donald trump visiting, there was a branding exercise. actually, joe biden is sending people that can actually get things done. >> there were decisions made in the hours after that that we

have to look at. joining us now from east palestine, ohio, nbc news correspondent george solis. what is the latest on the cleanup, and what do we know about toxins in the water and air? >> reporter: yeah, good morning, mika and joe. residents here really concerned. they say they're all for the attention that their town has gotten. they wonder if the publicity has been good for them or bad for them, but they do want accountability. a lot of people here, this has been a boots on the ground operation. you have people within this community, people from outside this community bringing things like food, bottled water. the big headline that we know today, the epa announcing yesterday that they're going to allow the train operator, norfolk southern, to begin and resume disposal of the hazardous material. mind you, this is going to other states outside of ohio, and that was alarming to officials. in michigan and texas. officials were blindsided this

was coming into their states unbeknownst to them. epa said they'd find sites in the state. they did. two of them epa approved that this material will be heading to. yesterday, we did ask the head of the epa for the region, what about the stuff already sent to those states? what will happen to that material? i'll have you listen as i pressed her on the issue. you mentioned cleanup operations will resume tomorrow. what about the locations in michigan and texas where some of this hazardous material was already skipped? will that continue in any capacity? is that material being vetted? >> so that material was already vetted, and it is at those facilities. they are not currently accepting any more. we are exploring to see whether they have capacity, and we're

continuing to make sure that any facility has off-site approval. >> reporter: yeah, residents still understandably skeptical about how all of this has been handled thus far. we know federal agencies have been going door to door. they've been doing air quality, water quality tests. to this point, they say everything looks good. now, we know at the derailment site today, the ohio epa says they're going to begin putting in water monitoring wells to make sure the ground water is not contaminated. we also know at the derailment site, all the cars are gone except 11, which are being held as part of the ntsb investigation. residents here say, look, we know that, right now, things may look good, but we really are worried about the long-term effects that this contamination is going to have on our community. we really want to see norfolk southern be held accountable. to be fair, the company says they're going to stick by this community. they're going to keep their

centers open here to offer checks and do more water and air quality testing. but people here really want to see more accountability. guys, mika? >> nbc's george solis, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. we will turn to politics but will be following that story. former vice president mike pence told nbc news on friday that he expects to decide by the spring whether he will run for president. also in that interview with ali vitali, pence said florida governor ron desantis is wrong when, last week, he downplayed russia's strength. >> there's one person to blame for the unfolding tragedy of russian aggression in ukraine. that's vladimir putin. while some in my party have taken a somewhat different view, let me be clear, there can be no room in the leadership of the

republican party for apologists for putin. there can only be room for champions of freedom. russian tanks are in georgia. russian military has taken over in crimea. now, russian aggression one year in the making has cost 300,000 lives and displaced millions. more injured and wounded. the right approach to this moment in history with renewed russian aggression in eastern europe is strength. american strength and calling on our allies to continue to meet their obligations for our common defense. >> would you say ron desantis is wrong? >> i would say anyone that thinks vladimir putin will stop at ukraine is wrong. >> that's saying that ron desantis is definitely wrong. >> compare pence's clear-eyed comments about putin with what we keep hearing from former

president trump. a group put together a collage of his remarks, where he sided with vladimir putin over allegations of russian interference in the 2016 election. >> you know, these idiots back there, he's very close to putin. remember when they hit me with a question, who do you trust? >> president putin denied having anything to do with the election interference in 2016. every u.s. intelligence agency concluded russia did. who do you believe? >> i said, that can be the toughest question i've ever been asked as a politician. they wanted me -- and then when i really didn't give them a very good answer in terms of exactness -- i will tell you president putin is extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. i have president putin. he just said it is not russia. i will say this, i don't see any

reason why it would be. oh, all hell broke look. >> siding with putin. >> most serious mistake of his presidency. >> "wall street journal" calling it a personal and national embarrassment. >> it'll be tough to walk back. >> in a key sentence in my remarks, i said the word "would" instead of "wouldn't." the sentence should have been, "i don't see any reason why i wouldn't or why it wouldn't be russia." your intelligence people, comey, mccave, turned out i was right about that, too. these people, what they have done to our country with the fake russia, russia, russia scam. you know, it's just incredible. >> jonathan lemire, you were the one that asked the question, how fascinating and how unpatriotic that donald trump sides with vladimir putin in 2018. he comes back, he backs off of it after being criticized, and now he's back to siding with vladimir putin over intel

agencies and openly mocking intel agencies. when he said what might be the toughest question i was ever asked, he got a laugh from the crowd. that tells you exactly where the base is. they think it's funny. they think it's funny that we americans, that we god-loving, patriot-loving americans would trust our own professionals that are trying to keep us safe more than the next kgb agent. donald trump thinks that's funny. the people in the audience thought that was funny. and at the end of the day, donald trump is where he was when you asked the question in 2018. he trusts vladimir putin, he says, more than he trusts the professionals at america's intelligence agencies. people who risk their lives every day to stop the next terrorist attack against

america. >> i suppose it is a badge of honor to have asked him the toughest question he ever faced, but the answer should have been easy and opposite to the one he gave. and it is so striking, joe, the timing here. we are coming up on five years since that moment in helsinki when he first chose putin over the u.s. intelligence agencies. suddenly, he is all over the place, doubling, tripling down on his stance. these remarks that you just played right there also in a truth social post recently. he keeps saying that he was right. he is doing this at a moment when the world just stopped to honor the one year mark of a war that vladimir putin and vladimir putin alone caused. we have seen the atrocities committed in ukraine in putin's name. let's talk about what it means for the republican party. yes, we heard the laughs in the room that joe pointed out. mike pence taking a different stance, saying, no, putin is responsible here. criticizing not just implicitly trump but also governor desantis

and his stance. how do we think this issue is going to help shape the republican field? we should note, a few of the likely presidential candidates are those who played a role in trump's foreign policy. nikki haley is already in. mike pompeo likely to join him. >> it could be a defining part of the republican primary process on who is going to take on the clear threat of what putin wants to do, depending on his lack of success or success in ukraine. and on those that would be soft on putin and more on the trump side, it would be very defining. i think that it is -- it's almost like twisting a twisted pretzel. on the one hand, they want to attack the democrats as being too far to the left, too socialist, sort of like leaning towards socialism, communism. on the other hand, they want to be soft on it, some of them, on

the global level. i don't see how you have it both ways. clearly, i think, you know, if the democrats are to proceed, in my opinion, in trying to politically expose the continue contradiction, they ought to keep raising it, what side are you on on the putin question? ukraine is a place they can go to. >> jen psaki, this is not complicated. republicans, not too many years ago before trump, would call him a traitor. call him a traitor. would call anybody that supported him a traitor. this is just straight out, straightforward, i mean, think about this. this is a guy that says he trusts vladimir putin, a man who called the collapse of the soviet union the worst tragedy of the 20th century. >> yeah. >> says he trusts him more than he trusts our own intelligence

community, who is trying to keep us safe and stop the next terrorist attack against america. >> mm-hmm. >> then think about, since we just went past the one-year mark, if we want to strip this down and talk about how unpatriotic and dangerous the man is, here are his quotes about the ukraine invasion. this is genius. >> yeah. >> said he was watching the tv. said, "oh, that's wonderful." calls him savvy, calls him a strategic genius. praises the invasion while ukrainians are getting slaughtered in the street. "this is genius," said donald trump of vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine. "oh, that's wonderful," says donald trump of vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine. "oh, that's savvy," says donald trump on vladimir putin's

invasion of ukraine. you know, again, republicans themselves five years ago, and actually now, should call it what it is, un-american. >> yeah. i mean, trump has long admired putin. i think it is fair to say. long admired how strong he is, to quote trump. his role as an autocrat essentially. that's what trump think hs is the model. the model of cracking down with information sharing with the public, sharing truthful information, is how trump ran for president. now, what is difficult for him, let's hope, is that since he ran for president successfully, a lot has happened. a lot of what you just outlined, joe, right? not only did he intervene in the election, but he is guilty, in all likelihood, or from our eyes, of war crimes. trump echoing what he said five

years ago when jonathan lemire asked that question is more mind-boggling because of all that happened and who putin exposed himself to actually be. which many of us knew but now the world has seen it. trump is still, like, "that's my guy." >> again, even after the invasion that donald trump called genius, that he called wonderful, that he called savvy, even after that, even after the war crimes, donald trump is saying -- >>atrocities. >> everything. >> he's saying he trusts vladimir putin more than he trusts americans who were fighting every day, who were on the tip of the spear every day around the world, trying to keep us safe here at home. that's not un-american. if that's not? i don't know that is. still ahead on "morning joe," as the russian invasion of ukraine enters a second year, we're going to take a look at where the fighting stands right now. plus, the united states

issues a new warning to china about helping moscow. what president biden's top national security adviser is saying about that. also this morning, rnc chairwoman ronna mcdaniel predicts donald trump will pledge to support the 2024 gop nominee. >> yeah, no. >> we'll see you how the former president's campaign is responding to that. and the case for a primary challenge to joe biden. markibovich joins us. and the abu dhabi summit is kicking off next week. we're going to mark international women's day with an all-star panel of guest speakers, including hillary clinton, gloria steinem, jessica alba, ayesha curry, catherine o'hara, misty copeland, billie jean king, and the first lady of ukraine, olena zelenska.

it is part of the mission to gather generations of women from the "forbes" 30 under 30 and the 50 over 50 lists to forge new bonds, collaborate and innovate as leaders. go to knowyourvalue.com for more information. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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i'll be here if it's not trump. >> even in wisconsin? >> even in wisconsin. >> former -- >> look at that. >> -- republican house speaker paul ryan says he won't attend the 2024 gop convention if donald trump is the party's nominee, no matter what. joe, can i just say, it looks so easy. i mean, it doesn't seem hard. he was able to just say, new york city -- you know, what he doesn't think is good for the party. it just came out of his mouth. >> let's continue talking about it. jen psaki, let's say it. if you get behind donald trump, and i know a lot of republicans, establishment republicans who hate donald trump, but they say, if he is the party nominee, i'm going to get behind him. well, you would be saying that about mussolini? i don't know. if the guy said, "i'm the new hitler"? like, donald trump already said that he trusts an ex-kgb agent

who is a war criminal, who sees the united states as his sworn enemy more than he trusts men and women in the intelligence community who risk their lives every day to keep us safe. he's already called the worst invasion in europe since world war ii genius. this is genius. >> paul ryan is simply doing the right thing by saying that. >> "oh, that's wonderful." >> yeah. >> he calls this invasion where hundreds of thousands of ukrainians are slaughtered, he says it is genius, wonderful, savvy, and says he trusts vladimir putin, the man who is committing all these war crimes, more than he trusts our intel community. so, yes, what paul ryan saluted, all the respectable republicans who are like, i don't like him, but i'll get behind him if he is the nominee.

what does that even mean? you have a guy that is more sympathetic toward vladimir putin than a rank and file fbi agent who is risking her day every day, every night. >> joe, even if that doesn't move you, which it should if you are a sane person who loves the country, loves the country we live in and is patriotic, but it hasn't moved them the last few years, let's remember. his agenda lost in november. his election-denying agenda lost. the notion of blindly following him or blindly saying you're going to support him doesn't make sense politically. it's fear of the base. it's very much fear of the base that we're seeing here. it reminds me a lot, actually, of the nra and how the nra still has this huge powerlected offic washington, despite the fact that gun reform legislation is supported by 70%, 80%, 90% of the public.

it is this fear of the base. yes, paul ryan, good for him. he has no more you-know-whats to give, and maybe he will be a person who helps lead some to say the same thing. we will see. >> when you even talk about the nra -- >> really good parallel. >> -- legislation, sometimes 60%, 70% of nra members support legislation that the republican party kills. mika, it is insanity. it's not even worrying about the base because 60% of republicans don't want donald trump to run. it's just fearing your own shadow. >> you have to wonder what's going on. now to this. newspapers across the country dropped the comic strip days after the creator made comments that are said to be discriminatory and racist. the cartoonist described people who are black as members of a

hate group from which white people should get away. those comments came in response to a report surveying 53% of black respondents agreeing with the statement, "it's okay to the white," while 26% disagreed. various media publishers nationwide denounced the comments as racist, hateful and discriminatory. andrews mcneil universal, which distributes "dilbert," announced it'd sever all ties with the cartoonist. the anti-defamation league has noted that phrase, "it's okay to the white," emerged on the infamous message board 4chan in 2017 as a trolling campaign and has a long history in the white supremacist movement. adams defended his remarks on twitter, saying he was only, quote, advising people to avoid hate. and suggested the cancellation of his cartoon signals that free

speech in america is under assault. >> well, you know, rev -- >> he has since deleted the tweet. >> i've seen people who have spoken out against cancel culture repeatedly. you and i have, actually, as well, many occasions, spoken out against the wokeness of this cancel culture. but, i mean, even some people who are really intensely fighting cancel culture are saying, this ain't cancel culture. this is just racism being called out. people don't want to be associated with a guy that says, "i'm going to stay away from black people." >> this is not a question of being taken out of context. this is not a question of saying something that you want to take back. this guy absolutely, unequivocally, advocated, "stay away from black people." let's remember, adams said it while he knew he was a

cartoonist in these major publications. he would, if not penalized, have been normalizing that it is all right for these publications to do business and put forward the work and cartoons of a guy that says "stay away from black people." i think they did what they should have done. i think it would have been offensive and really signaling some kind of subtle agreement to continue to do business with him. he has the right to say it. they have the right to say these do not reach our standards. >> yes. >> for elon musk and others to come to his defense makes us really question where their stand is. when do they consider something bigoted and racist? do you have to use the n-word outright? even then, they may find a way to justify it. >> certainly the right decision for the business groups. for adams, not the first time he has said things that are racist or inflammatory. let's remember, "dilbert" was a

phenomenon, but he's slipped in recent years during the pandemic, in particular, embracing full-on conspiracies. dangerous covid conspiracy theories about government tracking, about vaccines being fatal, embracing qanon-esque approaches toward donald trump and the government. this is a long downward slide and full-on racism with these remarks. >> again, anybody that would defend him, they're defending this line right here. my best advice that i would give to white people is to get the hell away from black people. that's what he said in a video that he put up. he said, and, again, for those who are defending him right now, what you're defending is this line. "the best advice i would give to white people is to get the hell away from black people." rev, that's just, again, that's

just straight out racism. i'm going to be really curious to see how many people at other networks tonight decide that they're going to try to cast this as another example of cancel culture. it's just flat out racism. this is not, you know, so much with woke culture and cancel culture has to do with evolving standards, right? like, oh, okay, well, we're not the same as we were ten years ago. we've become more sensitive in this topic and that topic. cancel culture, you often hear people getting caught in these between two eras. this would have been racist in 1955, if somebody had gone on the "steve allen" show and said, "my best advice would be to stay away from black people." that person in 1955 would have got been trouble.

>> absolutely. i don't think steve allen would have let them finish the line. >> right. >> clearly, we're dealing with somebody that blatantly says, he's not even hedging it, well, whites should stay away from some blacks if they do abc or have a certain view. no, whites stay away from blacks. you can't get clearer, more bigoted and racist than that. the fact it is even up for discussion, whether legitimate businesses in the media world that has a standard would even debate whether or not they're going to do business with this guy who publicly says this. this is not a guy, now, that was at some cocktail party saying something off color. he put it up. he put the statement out there. >> he posted it. >> he had no problem with it. he advertised it. if you're going to take a position, then you should stand by your position and suffer the consequences.

>> yeah. democrats have full control of the michigan legislature for the first time in 40 years and in the wake of the mass shooting at michigan state university. they are calling for new gun safety measures. state senator mallory mcmorrow will join us to discuss the proposals in her state. plus, the must-read opinion pages, including the piece from "the wall street journal" editorial borden titled "a bad start for the gop in 2023." >> yeah. >> "morning joe" -- >> that's an understatement, isn't it? >> -- will be right back.

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beautiful shot of the capitol on this monday morning at 46 past the hour.

"the wall street journal" editorial board has a recent piece entitled "a bad start for the gop in 2023," and in it, the board writes in part, quote, being the opposition party can have its political advantages, but if republicans are hoping for victory next year, they might want to look around. montana senator jon tester said that he'll run for re-election in 2024, meaning no open rights there to boost the gop's chances of taking the state and the senate majority. the point is that the country is closely divided with political control decided by inches. if republicans want to win independents, they have slightly more than a year to settle on a better message than they have been offering and to recruit quality candidates. yet, the warning of last november's washout does not seem to have reached all precincts. the republican parties in arizona and michigan, two swing states that could be be decisive in 2024, are a mess of division

and disarray. none of this bodes well for the party nominating a presidential winner in 2024 or winning either house in congress. >> yeah, you know, again -- >> this is the thing. >> -- i'm tired. >> you're going to do it again, aren't you? >> i'm going to try to push the rock to the top. >> no matter how many times you say it, it is going to lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose. >> it'll slide back down. >> lose. >> say that because they know they lost in 2017. they know they lost in 2018. they know they lost in 2019. >> i just did it for you shortened. >> they lost in 2020. they know they lost in 2021. they know they lost in 2022. they know they lost in 2023. >> they don't see it. >> yet, jen psaki, who of the most important states, michigan and arizona, what do they do? they appoint people to run their parties that are what i was calling -- >> what in the world? -- a lot of these republicans candidates in 2022 when i said

democrats could win because they're insurrectionists, weirdos and freaks. that's who they appointed. they're actually finding people who are bigger insurrectionists, bigger weirdos, bigger freaks to run their parties. and they have mtg, is that her initials? >> i don't know. >> they have this woman with three initials from north georgia who is talking about civil war. >> secession. >> do they -- i know they think, oh, this is going to be great on the podcast today. they're going to love me. >> whip people up. >> they're going to love me on, like, freak tv. this destroys them every day. i've been warning my former party every day for years. this is hurting you. they keep losing. they're going to lose in 2024. where are the grown-ups in that

party? >> they're not winning elections within the primaries, and they're not winning elections to run the parties in their states. i mean, michigan is such a cray -- they're having fundraising challenges, the michigan republican party. they have lost donors. they have put somebody in charge of the republican party in the state there who is even far more extreme, as you just said, than the people who lost in the november election in many states. it's like pursuing something that is a losing strategy, and they know it is a losing strategy, to satisfy an element of twitter and an element of the right wing. that's the only thing i can make sense of it. and, you know, if you are the democratic parties in michigan and arizona, states that, by the way, will always be swing states in all likelihood because there is a divide. you know, there are many republicans, many independents, democrats. there are states that will always be that way. they are thinking, wow, we're

going to fundraise and nominate normal candidates who represent our state. on the other side, we don't have a competitor running the party as we've had in the past. it is good for the democratic parties in the states. i don't understand, can't explain the strategy for why they are putting some of these people in charge. it's crazy. >> it's crazy. let's bring in majority whip from michigan state senate, mallory mcmorrow. mallory, why don't we just let everybody in on a little secret? that the michigan gop has selected as their leader, after getting crushed in michigan on all levels, a woman who lost her own campaign in 2022 by 14 points. 14 points, right? >> that's right. she hasn't even conceded yet. >> that's like an atlanta falcon spread, all right? losers. and she's still claiming she won that race. she is still claiming that trump won the race.

like, insurrectionists, weirdos and freaks cost them michigan in 2022 and in arizona. they're back at it again. >> it is crazy. i was just listening to local reporters on the radio who said a week after the convention, the michigan gop still hasn't even updated their website. they're in debt. they don't have enough money to do the basics. kristina karamo, not only an election denier, this is somebody who has said that beyonce is satan, that the lgbtq community goes against god's design, and her ex-husband accused her of attempting to drive their kids off the road. i mean, it's just terrifying. but michigan democrats, i mean, we've learned from 2016, we don't take anything for granted. we're looking at this moment not that we can rest, but we have to get back to work. keep fundraising and prove normalcy is going to win again. >> let's talk about the work being done. i know there is a package that

democrats have been working on, new gun legislation which took renewed urgency after the shooting at michigan state. what exactly are you proposing? >> so this was devastating. the michigan capital is 4 miles away from michigan state. when this shooting happened, this impacted absolutely every single person who works at the capitol. there are kids at michigan state who survived the oxford shooting 14 months ago only to be in a shooting again. the legislation we've introduced we've been working on for ten years now. it includes red flag laws, universal background checks and safe storage. there was a poll of republican primary voters who own a firearm. of that group, 93% of voters support universal background checks. these are -- >> say that again for me. >> this is important. >> say this again.

we've been talking about this for years. >> yes. >> people go, oh, well, you hate guns, joe, even though i own guns. oh, you hate the nra. no, i don't. i don't hate second amendment rights. i've been a supporter of second amendment rights. but when we talk about universal background checks, the majority of nra owners support universal background checks. give our audience that stat again because it is so important. >> it is so important. responsible gun owners, polled were primary republican voters who were gun owners. 93% of them want universal background checks. you can't get 93% of people to agree on anything. this is the issue we've got to move on. >> so this is made possible, of course, because democrats have control of the entirety of the state government there in michigan. you recently announced you are going to be focusing on that, maintaining that control and passing on a run for the u.s.

senate, the now soon to be empty seat in michigan. walk us through your decision, why you came to that conclusion, and also how you see that now 2024 race playing out. >> absolutely. so our senator announced she's not going to be running for re-election, and supporters reached out and asked me to consider it. but we never focus nearly enough on state legislatures. this is something that i have been talking about for the past year. we lost 1,000 state legislature seats starting in 2009. we lost control of two-thirds after state legislatures. in michigan, we finally have control for the first time in 40 years. we are going to pass responsible gun safety reform. we are going to end water shut-offs. we are going to expand opportunity for people to invest in education. this is what i've worked so hard for. when i look at where i could make the biggest impact, it is staying in the state legislature, expanding in our majority, and, frankly, in this moment where nothing will get done in washington, michigan

should be the beacon of hope for the rest of the country. there is another way forward. there is an anti-florida. anti-hate. we're doing it in michigan. >> state senator mcmorrow, based on what you just said, would you say that michigan, given where it plays in the national political spectrum, now under control with the democratic party, that, really, it could show the democrats the formula toward dealing with gun control and power outages and criminal justice, and that many that live in michigan, as you know i have a chapter of the national action network there, which says if we can't do it now, when can we do it? does that also add a lot of pressure, especially on the state legislature, now that it is democratically controlled, that we have to deliver in these areas, otherwise, how do we go back to our base and say, keep us in power? >> of course. we have a lot to prove. on day one in both the statehouse and the state senate,

we introduced six bills that are a good indicator of priorities. we expanded the tax credit. repealed the retirement tax for seniors on a fixed income. we also announced we will repeal right to work, restore prevailing wage, repeal our 1931 abortion ban and expand our state's civil rights act to include lgbtq michiganen. >> it is setting up a state where every single person in michigan is welcome and will be protected, not discriminated against because of who you are. >> majority whip of the michigan state senate, mallory mcmorrow. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> we appreciate it. still ahead, a look at the stories making front page headlines in newspapers across the country. including a book tour that could double as the soft launch of a presidential campaign. plus, we'll look at the new report from the energy department on the origins of covid. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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uh-oh. >> now what? >> he's out. >> they have called strike three! wow! this is mayhem! oh, automatic strike three called with the bases loaded. a tie game in the bottom of the

ninth. this is baseball in 2023. >> baseball is back, baby. >> it is. >> oh, how would you like to be the ump making that call? thank god, you know, it is the beginning of spring training. here's the deal, the rules are the rules are the rules. >> they're the rules. >> learn 'em. >> yeah. >> learn 'em and play by 'em so we can watch games in 2 1/2 hours instead of 4 1/2 hours. let me just say, mike barnicle, who is with us right now, it is important to me that when you go out to fenway all the time, that you can be in your car, driving it back to get to your garage by 9:30. you can be leaving the lot at 9:30. >> no. >> it's a horrible boston accent. >> yeah. >> still, it is the difference, really, between fans getting out of a game at 9:30 and 11:00. >> yeah, welcome to major league baseball 2022. >> 2023, mike.

>> '23, actually. it is about time. you're right, joe, i mean, red sox/yankees games traditionally at fenway have run a little over 4 hours, but close to 4 hours. this game, when played expeditiously and excellently, you should be out of that ballpark in 2 1/2 hours. which you will be with the pitch clock. the pitch clock is wonderful for major league baseball. it is wonderful for the fans of major league baseball. the only thing, i think, we have to take a look at, that is going to be really interesting, is who does it have more of an impact on, the pitcher or the batter? i think the batter at first. i think it'll all get ironed out during the course of the year, but i think the batter. the first couple months of major league baseball, april and may, it'll be interesting to watch that dynamic. >> when we were talking yesterday, i originally thought this would be to the batter's advantage because it's a pitcher who is rushing. then, as you were asking me the question, it struck me, wait a

second, the pitcher knows what he is going to throw. it's the batter who has to get back in the box, get set, doesn't have as much time to figure it out. a pitcher that's moving and keeping the pace up can keep him off balance. jonathan lemire, rich eisen asked me if i would have the same energy, if i'd be as excited, how the game ended if it was the ninth inning of a yankees/red sox game and it was a red sox that got called out. i said, and i mean it, considering, first of all, those are the rules, and, secondly, that every red sox/yankees game lasts over 4 hours, i'd give the ump a standing ovation and boo the batter who didn't know the rules three months into the game. >> yeah, i do think pitchers and hitters both, they'll adjust. i think we won't see that happen too often during the regular season. but this is a good thing. i was actually at cooperstown over the weekend. i took my boys to the baseball hall of fame for the very first time. it was spectacular. those who have not gone, cannot encourage you more highly to do

so. but you see how the game changes. the game evolves. it's done that before. it's doing that now. a pitch clock, it worked in the minor leagues. it's going to work in major league baseball. the game needed to trim down for not just to avoid the 4-hour games that are tough for early morning tv hosts like us, joe, but also for the next generation of fans. for kids who can stay up later and see more of the game, who can go to the ballpark and see the whole game and not thinking about whether or not i have to leave early because it is a school night. this is a good and overdue thing. we're excited about it, my boys are, too. >> donny deutsch, i mean, you're a genius in branding. just think about where we are right now. it's not the 1950s or '60s when kids would go out and watch while the pitchers were sitting around, kicking the dirt, trying to figure out what to do. i'm not being facetious here. like, they can see three tiktok videos in the time that it takes a pitcher to kick the mound, throw down the bag, walk around

a couple times, stare at the baseball, get existential about his career. here, it's pitch the ball, get the ball. pitch the ball, get the ball. i would think that for 2023 fans, this is a must. this is a must for major league baseball. >> they've done research with young people, and baseball has really been fallen out of favor. one of the reasons is the pace of the game. another reason is they've not created as much of a star system as football and basketball has. when you see the success of football in terms of ratings and fan passion, and basketball, baseball has been falling behind. this is a very, very, very, very good step, particularly with young people, as you said. we live in a tiktok culture, less is more. 2 1/2 beats 3 1/2 every time. >> donny, let me ask you also, i want to follow up on a conversation we had last hour. you and i were talking, sort of stumbled halfway through the term '21/'22, going into the '22

elections. what should republicans say? what should democrats say? the end of the day, there was so much craziness coming from the republican party, we sort of settled on weirdos, freaks and insurrectionists. that really was a great summation, seriously, of their policies, of their temperament, of the way they carried themselves. they were freaks, weirdos and insurrectionists. they lost again for the sixth year in a row. now, we were just talking with a michigan senator last hour, talking about how two of the most important states for republicans, michigan and arizona, two states that they lost in a big way, that they really needed to win in 2022, they now have people running their parties that are even bigger insurrectionists, bigger

weirdos, bigger freaks. one woman who is now running the michigan gop, a party that just got wiped out last time, she lost her race in 2022 by 14 points. still hasn't conceded. she still is an election denier on donald trump's 2020 race. again, i just wonder, i just wonder, are these people spies? are they double agents sent by the ghost of ted kennedy to undermine the republican party? >> look, the problem, joe, you and i have talked about this a lot. we both said, you know, you know what will happen, they'll keep losing and that'll be the wake-up call. obviously, they've been putting on the snooze button and it hasn't been the wake-up call. the problem is the freaks, the insurrection insurrectionists, the marjorie taylor greenes of the world, they're raising the money. individual needs are being met, but the party suffers.

contrast it with the blocking and tackling that the democrats are doing, starting with our president. whether you look at jobs, whether you look at unemployment, whether you look at a climate bill, build back better, inflation reduction act, climate act, you've got one party that's the lug nut, nutjob party, and the other party is the party of confidence. before the democrats had this great run the last couple years, i said, the ticket for the democrats is paint the crazy. they've got a double barrel shotgun. paint the crazy and the attack on competency. the contrast is stunning. >> let's be clear so we don't speak in generalities. reverend al, in the senate, you have republicans that are standing side by side with joe biden in the fight against vladimir putin in the senate. you have other republicans that are siding with joe biden and

democratic senators and passing gun legislation reform, passing infrastructure bills. so you do have some republicans in the senate that are keeping their head down, quietly doing their job, acting like main street republicans used to act. unfortunately for this party, this people that want to be the next president, the people who are likely to be the next president, are calling vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine genius. "this is genius. oh, that's wonderful." calling putin savvy. the clip we played last hour, vladimir putin is doubling down on siding with vladimir putin over members of our own intelligence community. then you have marjorie taylor greene calling to secede from the union. perhaps the most important person in the house of representatives when it comes to keeping kevin mccarthy speaker

of the house. kevin mccarthy said, i will do anything for this woman. so we're not just talking generalities about back benchers. we're talking about the people who are likely going to lead the republican party. with ron desantis, you have a guy who says vladimir putin doesn't pose a threat to his neighbors. even mike pence is out going, what is he talking about? >> the real issue that i see is exactly that. it's that the leadership and the face of the party actually represents the things that many people fear or detest. when you talk about weirdos, freaks or insurrectionists, the problem is some of the leaders are all three. i mean, you don't have to choose between which one they fit into. you actually have the potential head of the republican party, the last candidate who also is running again, the last

president, sitting president of the party, that is embracing the head of russia. i mean, in a real-life threat, a global threat to where this can go if he were to be successful. then you have those that want to run against him that won't denounce him. you have a major leader of the republican party in the congress, not only trying to act like the insurrection that happened on january 6th didn't happen, but is calling for the succession of red states from the union, which is really talking about a legal insurrection now. nobody is acting like this is strange in the republican party. i think, yes, the democrats have to deliver. yes, i think that what biden has done has been important in many areas. but i think that self-destruction is something that should be the theme song for the republican party. >> yeah. >> so in an interview with cnn

yesterday, ronna mcdaniel was asked about the 2024 race and whether candidates would have to commit to supporting the eventual nominee of the party. take a look. >> will candidates be required to sign a pledge saying that they will support whomever becomes the nominee in order to get on that debate stage? >> we haven't put the criteria out, but i expect a pledge will be part of it. it was part of 2016. i think it is a no-brainer, right? if you are on the republican national committee debate stage asking voters to support you, you should say, i'm going to support the voters and who they choose as the nominee. as rnc chair, if i said i wouldn't support the republican nominee, i would be removed from office. i would. i would be rightly removed. it'd be part of the bylaws, and i would be kicked out as the rnc chair. anybody getting on the republican national committee debate stage should be able to say, i will support the will of the voters and the eventual nominee of our party. >> i want you to listen to what former president donald trump

said a couple weeks ago in an interview with conservative radio host hugh hewitt on this topic. >> if you're not the nominee, will you support whoever the nominee is? >> it would depend. i'd give you the same answer i gave in 2016 during the debate. it would have to depend on who the nominee was. >> so are you prepared to block the former president -- >> well, he signed it in 2016. he did. everybody signed it in 2016. >> but this is about the here and the now. he didn't commit to it. >> i think they're all going to sign it. i really do. >> he's not going to live by it, though. he'll sign it, but he'll say the same thing he said there, trump campaign spokesperson, by the way, later responded to mcdaniels' comments saying, quote, president trump will be supporting the nominee because it'll be him. there we have it, jen psaki. >> oh, my god. >> this guy, it's like donald trump signing that document doesn't mean a darn thing. >> no. >> just like he kept telling us he'd release his taxes after the audit was over.

no audit. no taxes ever released. donald trump said it himself, and his spokesperson said it, they'll support the nominee only if it is donald trump. >> i mean, either this is a hurdle to having republican debates, which it certainly could be, or they're all going to sign it, as she said, and they don't really care. ronna mcdaniel and the republican national committee don't really -- i mean, they're not a powerful force. nobody is waiting for them to tell them who to support or what to do. it's a challenge. that's why it is in such complete and crazy disarray at this point, joe. i'm not sure it matters whether or not they sign it, to your point. >> yeah, really doesn't. mike barnicle, you know, actually, the real threat that republicans have is there is a very real possibility that if somebody did run against donald trump, if for some ron desantis ran against donald trump and figured out a way to win, i have no doubt donald trump would run an as independent if he could

and split the party. >> you know, i think the debate over who is going to sign what and whether they mean it, truth and accurate, i think it is meaningless. the larger question is, each of these candidates, the republican candidates, they should be asked the question, and it is a neutral question, do you believe that joseph r. bide season the legitimately elected president of the united states? that gives you a foundation of what they believe in. >> yes. >> the direction they're going to take. >> yup. >> this election really is about something the republicans failed to do each and every time. that is govern. they clearly don't know how to govern. they are still -- look, obamacare passed 10, 12 years ago. they still oppose obamacare. they still over all those years have not proposed an alternative to obamacare. they can't govern. until they can figure out how to convince the american public

that they know how to govern, that they're interested in governing, they're nothing. >> i might add that those republican candidates should face the question as to who is the legitimate president, is it joseph r. biden, and also pose the question we talked about earlier this hour, are you siding with vladimir putin or not in the war in ukraine? >> right. >> these could be important markers for a gop electorate, joe and mika. it goes to show how trump, though weakened, is still shadowing over the republican party and defining the debate there. we're talking about this because it is trump who likely will not commit to backing the republican nominee. i also think in that scenario you just painted there, joe, if, let's say, a desantis or someone else were to take on trump in a gop primary and defeat him, donald trump is not going to concede. donald trump is not going to acknowledge defeat. >> no. >> donald trump going to do the same thing he did after the 2020 election and do it within the republican party, burn the whole thing down. >> i mean, unless he runs into some sort of legal situation that stops him in his tracks.

>> i don't think -- i think he'll use that if he has a legal situation. >> yup. >> to do what republicans have started doing all the time. that is, you know, claiming victimhood. jonathan lemire, i ask you and open it to the entire table, has ron desantis ever said joe biden was the legitimately elected president of the united states? i know privately at times, he's done things that have actually promoted election deniers behind the scenes. but he's stayed quiet on the issue himself, if i'm not mistaken. >> i believe he has. we're going to look it up right now, joe, while we are talking here. we did hear from nikki haley, the other announced republican candidate a few days ago. she said president biden is rightly in office. but this is going to be a litmus test. you know, donny, that trump is going to make this an issue. he is -- his whole candidacy to this point is backward looking.

he's offered nothing for the future. he is relitigaing helsinki and continuing with the 2020 election, suggesting it was stolen from him. some in the party want to move forward. the question will be, do enough? >> you know, mike said an interesting thing, they don't know how to govern. you can't govern if you don't stand for anything. their new, young buck, desantis, what does he stand for, other than anti-woke? i'm anti-woke, and i want to keep the tampa bay rays from building a facility here because they came out and supported uvalde. we can go on a list of his little -- once again, it's the party of grievances, it's the party of stunts. they don't stand for anybody. the other problem when you look at desantis and the field, he still refuses to take a shot at trump. joe, you've talked about this a lot. none of these people are going to step forward until they punch him in the face. none of them seem to have the guts to do that. i say that, obviously, figuratively. >> he's done everything possible

to get canceled. go ahead, mike. >> you know these right track, wrong track polls that are often taken away the american public? the republicans clearly, culturally and politically, are on the wrong track. they would prefer to talk about transgender kids playing basketball in high school or whatever than they would prefer to talk about keeping a factory open or returning a factory job to places like ohio, indiana, michigan, anywhere in the country. that's where they're focused on. they think they can win a disturbing -- in disturbing people over culture, rather than the economics of daily life in america. >> governor desantis acted as if president biden -- he's referred to biden as the president. he's been there to florida for national diseases. he still to this day dodges the

question, whether he felt the 2020 election was conducted fairly. >> again, mika, going back to the republicans, mike's right. i mean, they talk about dr. seuss. >> yeah. >> they talk about gas stoves. >> books. >> they talk about four trans athletes in the state of utah. they wonder why they lost in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and why they're going to lose in 2023 and 2024. again, elections, i found this when i ran, i was young, nobody cared about my resume. not one person asked me about my resume. i was young. i really didn't have the resume that my opponents had. they all asked, what are you going to do when you go to washington? what are you going to support?

that's what i learned. they care about the future. >> yeah. >> donald trump does not talk about the future. the republican party doesn't talk about the future. if you think that, like, somebody that's losing their job in wisconsin is going to sit and vote for a party that obsesses over dr. seuss and gas stoves and four trans athletes in utah, you just have so disconnected from the country. you should start a podcast and make a lot of money. >> many have. >> but you're never going to win a national election. donny, thank you. we'll see you in our fourth hour of "morning joe" with brand up and brand down. >> i think he has something to say. >> everyone is talking about it. >> to give a perspective of time, i'll be back in the fourth hour. between then, i'll workout, take a drive to lancaster,

pennsylvania, catch a yankee spring training game, then i'll come back and you'll still be here. >> still be talking. >> wonderful. that's a great idea. >> thanks for depressing us. >> when you stop in lancaster, check out the shirt factory. you have time. you can drive there and back. the united states issues a new warning to china amid a report beijing is considering sending drones and ammunition to moscow. shouldn't do that. not good for you, china. plus, ukraine is asking for f-16 fighter jets to combat russian aggression. we'll talk to a member of congress who argues ukraine needs those jets now. also ahead, in iran, a growing number of women and girls are protesting the country's hijab law, which mandates they cover their hair. what that widespread resistance means for the country and women's rights. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. biden was in ukraine, republicans criticized his delayed response to the ohio

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ask your asthma specialist about tezspire™ today. there's always a fresh deal on the subway app. like this one! 50% off?! that deal's so good we don't even need an eight-time all-star to tell you about it. wait what? get it before it's gone on the subway app! pretty look at ft. lauderdale, florida, for you this morning. it is 27 past the hour. time now for a look at the morning papers. there is a feature on south carolina democrats renewing a push to enact a hate crime law

in the state. the legislation was first brought up in 2015 following a mass shooting at an african methodist church, and it is gaining momentum again. south carolina and wyoming are the only two states without a hate crime statute. "the st. lucie tribune" says desantis' book launch could also be the start to his presidential campaign. the republican is releasing his book tomorrow with an event in sarasota county. invitations to the event read, quote, no leader has accomplished more for his state than governor desantis. he is now sharing this winning blueprint with the country. desantis has not announced a bid for the white house, but there is speculation he will run. in michigan, "the detroit free press" has a front page feature

on a supreme court justice's close ties to student debt. the high court is set to hear arguments about the biden administration's decision to wipe out some federal loans tomorrow. according to the paper, justice clarence thomas didn't finish paying off his yale law school debt where he graduated in 1974 until his third year on the supreme court bench, 20 years later. while his personal connection to the issue is not likely to make him rule in favor of the biden administration, experts suggest it could be relevant in how the case is approached. and in new jersey, "the courier post" says residents have signed up for health care through the affordable care act. data shows 342,000 residents signed up for obamacare this year. that is about 18,000 more people than last year, which also set a record at the time.

nationwide, enrollments through the aca are up 13% from last year. the data also shows a steady decline in the number of uninsured people in new jersey. let's turn back to politics now. a new chapter for our next guest. >> heaven forbid we pass something that's going to help the damn workers in the united states of america! heaven forbid we tilt the balance that has been going in the wrong direction for 50 years. we talk about pensions. you complain. we talk about the minimum wage increase. you complain. we talk about giving them the right to organize. you complain. but if we were passing the tax cut here, you'd be all getting in line to vote yes for it. now stop talking about dr. seuss and start working with us on behalf of the american workers. >> amen. during his 20 years representing ohio in washington, former congressman tim ryan focused on helping america's blue collar

workers. now, as a private citizen, he is using his experience to bring working class voters back to the democratic party with his newly announced partnership with the thinktank third way. former congressman ryan joins us now. it is great to see you. loved that speech when it happened, and it ages quite well. so i'm curious, let's get right to the news. especially given the train derailment in east palestine, the toxic chemical spill, do you worry that blue collar americans feel still very much left out, even by democrats in washington, and exactly this is something republicans will use to further that narrative? >> yeah, thanks, mika. great to be back. i see we have the whole band back together with mike barnicle, donny and the whole crew. great to be back with you guys. what happened in east palatine is an example, one of kind of the issues facing corporate

america and having a good regulatory regime to keep people safe. but this is an area of the country that has been largely forgotten and ignored. throw this on top of it, which is a heartbreaking situation that those families are going through. we do have a lot of work to do. i don't, quite frankly, think that either party has done a great job messaging wise of really getting into these communities, so they default into the culture wars. that's why i've always said, we have to continue to have this robust economic agenda, talking about blue collar workers. if we don't, we will not have a strong, robust national party. yes, did we win elections? we did. look who we were running against. we barely beat fascists and extremists who supported an insurrection and don't believe the election was legitimate. we have to build a robust

national majority for the american people. >> i'm curious, tim. there seems to be a parallel thing going on here. first of all, yes, i think you're right, blue collar americans still don't feel like white house or democrats might be representing them, but where is it coming from? if you look at the record of this presidency, you would say that, perhaps, he accomplished more than any other modern american president. you could make that argument from the inflation reduction act to the chips act. i could go on for the next two minutes, listing the points on the board. so what's the issue? >> well, i think this focus on blue collar workers that you mentioned with third way and some of these other issues that i'm trying to address now kind of post congress is really how do we put those workers front and center? i think you're absolutely right. you look at what's happened in the last year and policies coming from the inflation reduction act, the chips act.

president biden is going to have a lot to run on. we just got to make sure that message makes its way down to the east palestines of ohio. to the blue collar folks in ohio. they just quite haven't seen it yet. that is going to be the campaign over the next year. that's why i think sherrod brown will win his seat in ohio. the chips act is coming online. we'll have thousands of jobs. average wage will be $135,000 a year. most you won't need a college degree for. look at the battery plant up in my old congressional district, almost a couple thousand workers. they just unionized. these are the things that you've got to go like a laser beam focus on this. the bridge, you've been talking about that your whole career, my whole career. that's actually going to get done in ohio. union construction workers. we've got the platform to run

on. we have a focus like a laser beam. campaign on these issues. you're right. republicans are sitting around talking about dr. seuss or all these other crazy issues, so there is an opening that is wide for us. we've got to take it. >> congressman, this is jen psaki. how are you? >> hi, jen. >> you mentioned in east palestine they need progress. this is one of the things that democrats need to do better at, i can even say, which is making people who are invisible feel seen. what do you think when the cameras fade away, when people aren't talking about this every day, what needs to happen from the federal government or from democrats on messaging for the people of east palestine and other forgotten communities in ohio? >> well, you know, showing up is 90%, i think, being there. i think the fact that secretary buttigieg was there the other day was a good sign. i would encourage the president to be there and not forget.

you're right, this is going to be a long haul here. there have been train accidents before. there was one in the lehigh valley in the '70s. they're just getting around to cleaning this up. this is a heartbreaking situation. what are these families going to do? i think having a strong presence, not going away, being there consistently, informing the community there about what is going on, but making sure the federal government is on their side, not just politicians showing up but the bureaucrats and people doing the work, making sure they have a presence there. this is going to be for decades. i mean, you have to monitor the water cables, make sure there's nothing in the drinking water. i don't live far from there, and we are concerned about drinking water up here, 30 miles away. be there, show you care. people don't care what you know. they want to know you care, like joe was saying earlier. >> tim, what do we do about

getting blue collar workers who have been laid off from a plant and are looking for jobs and have been looking for jobs for the past 2, 3, maybe 5 years or so. what do we do about the language of convincing them that the chip factory you mentioned, that the battery plant that you mentioned, that those are real jobs? i mean, you can say that the average income is $130,000, no college degree required, but they don't believe you because they're lost in this, what is the greening of america mean to me as a guy who worked with my hands? >> right. >> for 15 or 20 years. what's it mean to me? what do you do about them? >> you know, it has to be this slow, steady drum beat, i think. there are 800 workers at the battery plant that voted for a union. they're drinking beer at the bar with their buddies. i'm in the union. i have a good job building batteries. i think making this a big vision

for the united states of america, and let those workers feel like they're contributing to their kids' future. they're building the batteries that are going to bend the curve on climate change. whether they believed it or not, believe it or not, their kids believe climate change is a real issue. what could make a dad or mom more proud than saying, i'm helping to build a good future for my kids? i think having infrastructure in place, not the physical infrastructure but the workforce development infrastructure, i do a lot of work in that, trying to displace coal, which is a huge contributor to global climate change. how do we build that pipeline into the natural gas community? through, you know, inner city schools, through hbcus, rural communities? build that pipeline so kids know they're going to go into an industry that's going to bend the curve over the next 30 or 40 years, not tomorrow, but over the next 30, 40 years, and

communicating that robustly is going to be important. but the key, mike, big vision. america is going to solve this problem. those working class people, the same people that built the industrial age for america, they'll build the green age for america. >> former ohio congressman tim ryan, now a senior visiting fellow for third way, thank you very much for being on this morning. it is great to see you. come back. >> i will. in person, i want to see you guys. >> yay. all right. also this, democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan launched a new bid for the seat that will be vacant in 2024. she's out with a new ad this morning. >> this is why i'm running for the united states senate. we need a new generation of leaders that thinks differently, works harder, and never forgets that we are public servants. look, our country is going the get through this. it's hard work, but that's what

michiganders do. we need engaged citizens and principled leaders, because, together, there is no problem we cannot solve. >> jonathan lemire, your thoughts on her candidacy? she's got a pretty impressive background. >> that she does. a compelling message so far. she's a veteran and worked in the intelligence agencies. so far, though, it is interesting, this is an open seat, as we were talking about with the state senator a short time ago. so far, more potential candidates are opting against a bid than jumping in, potentially helping congresswoman slotkins' efforts. gov november whitmer is not going to chase this. congressman james as well as the lieutenant governor passing on bids at this moment. there will be others for the open seat vacated by the long-time senator in michigan. a state that, as we have been talking about, has gone bluer, more democratic in recent years.

certainly, it'll remain a key battleground next november. >> for sure. coming up, an update on the historic storm system that is making its way across the country after dropping snow in southern california. also ahead, the comments from former cia director on the growing doubts about chinese president xi jinping's unification plan. that is all ahead on "morning joe." every day, millions of things need to get to where they're going. and at chevron, we're working to help reduce the carbon intensity of the fuels that keep things moving. today, we're producing renewable diesel that can be used in existing diesel tanks. and we're committed to increasing our renewable fuels production. because as we work toward a lower carbon future, it's only human to keep moving forward.

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defiance seen every day by the women of iran. "the new york times" reports that women there are showing off their hair, openly rebelling against the country's law. one mother of a daughter who does not wear a hijabquoted saying, i respect my daughter's choice. so should you. it is nobody's business. joining us is kareem who focuses on iran and u.s. foreign policy toward the middle east. i guess my first question to you would be, where does this sort of rebellion/modernization, however you want to look at it, stand right now? there were so many reports of arrests and torture and people being abused for protesting, and, yet, there's also stories of sort of quietly protesting, just not wearing the hijab and going through the day.

making a stand about it. >> mika, one of the great scholars of revolutions, jack goldstone, once compared revolutions to earthquakes. he said, you know, we can never predict exactly when earthquakes are going to happen, but we know when countries have a lot of fault lines. iran is one of the most politically seismic countries in the world. we can't predict when this eruption is going to happen, but it is clear that this is a regime which is not only politically and economically authoritarian but also socially authoritarian. as you mentioned from the outset, one of the very first things this regime did when it took power in 1979 was to subjugate iranian women. the hijab is one of the three pillars of this revolution now. the other is death to america and death to israel. as we see the granddaughters of the 1979 revolution are more educated than their male counterparts and are going to continue to fight.

>> so while it might be sort of settling down at this moment, you say the next eruption could be bigger, is still yet to come. this isn't over. >> it's not over because, as i said, this is a regime which hasn't budged an inch. they believe that if you actually give in to pressure, it's not going to alleviate the pressure against you, it is going to embolden people more. so they haven't ceded an inch to their population, and they're now overseeing one of the world's worst economies, rampant inflation. as i said, a total lack of politicalfreedoms and lack of social freedoms. i expect as we see the weather pick up, the weather become warmer in iran, i expect we'll start to see the protests pick up, as well. >> karim, even as we've watched women rip off their head

scarves, that story was incredibly inspiring, they are still providing support to russia in their war against ukraine, and they are still working towards acquiring a nuclear weapon. so as somebody who studied the regime for so many years, what should we make of that? it feels like a contradiction. >> it is a great question, jen. i think these protests in iran are one of those uncommon instances in which american values and american interests overlap in the middle east. it's not often that that happens. for the reasons you mentioned, jen. so if you're looking at the world from the eyes of the white house, iran poses at least five, six daily challenges. obviously, their nuclear ambitions, their ambitions in the middle east, on any given day they're trying to assassinate former senior trump administration officials like mike pompeo and john bolton. iran has taken more american hostages than any country in the world, and they're providing drones and missiles to vladimir putin in ukraine.

and so, on one hand, we do have to obviously contend with all of those threats and challenges. at the same time, if we were to see political change inside iran, it actually could resolve all, if not most, of those challenges, because you have a population in iran which is not anti-american. they want to have a better relationship with the united states. so supporting the cause of change in iran is not just something nice to do, it would be a huge win, geopolitical win for the united states, to see political transformation inside iran. >> senior fellow at endowment for international peace, thank you for coming on the show this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," the ranking member of the house foreign affairs committee representative jason crow joins us. "morning joe" will be right back.

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all right. you're looking live. >> beautiful shot of washington, d.c. >> the nation's capital. home of d.c. united. >> what? >> let's bring in roger bennett. we will have a little understanding today. you and me. you understand understandings. ready? >> okay. >> take it away. >> i'm not sure why you are drinking your tea from a leads cup but whatever. >> is it tea? >> today we speak of no mercy side club whether the kids are red or blue. like voldemort. they are the clubs we shall not mention. >> deal. deal. but let's talk about english football's first trophy of the season. are you ready for this?

take america into the caribou cup? named after thailand's second most popular energy drink and the game pitched new castle united. proud team from mining country way up north. resurrected from enormous funding. a mix of romance sports. manchester united scored first by the squarest man in football. six minutes later slipped through. wicked deflection. that was that. manchester united -- oh, lift the first trophy in six long years. >> wow. >> lasers. tampa bay buccaneers own team. like the knicks waking from a

self inflicted slumber. they are back. back in the premier league. chelsea owned by the dodgers owner. burly splashed $600 million to the team. spurs -- look at this. apex predator. out of its mind. all of this. look what he does here. you don't need to see the movie. english captain would add a second. i like to believe in earlier lyes he would have mounted a spit fire. chelsea lose the 7th in 13. burly overseen what musk has done to twitter. finally, your league leading arsenal football club. top of the table. they saw leicester with this

goal. that was ruled offside. who cares? it was majestic. they are two points ahead. watching this team, joe, chase the first tight until 19 long year. as good for the soul as seeing an elephant take wings. breathing a little bit and calling it a life. >> for the life of me -- i love klopp and the club. the club that shall not be mentioned that wears red kits from mercyside. we wept to see chelsea play south hampton last week. i have seen a lot of football

matches and i was shocked by how lost, how directionless, how formless chelsea was. i don't think i have -- i don't think i have ever seen a team look as lost, a top flight team look as lost as chelsea and poured the money in there. what are the experts saying? what is going on at chelsea? >> americans are buying the teams because mika is telling them. she is bullish. todd burly own it is dodgers. the smart american owners. put together a great starting rotation for dodgers. like wandering into a "star wars" canteen. it is wonderful to watch in a way. isn't it, joe? >> i guess. >> now the cup is different.

>> no, it is not. >> it is different. >> show us the cup. >> look at this. it's got two sides. >> oh! >> and that's magic. >> what's in it? >> what is magic. >> what do you think's in it? have a guess. i am american now but a little bit is english. tea with milk. godspeed, america. >> i do agree with you. not an arsenal fan. it is nice to see them at the top of the table again playing well. i just wish it were liverpool fighting them for the championship instead of city. >> good things can happen to good people. that is living proof. before you insult me i will pop off. >> wise. top of the hour now.

there is a new report on the origins of covid. according to two sources with direct knowledge the energy department said they have low confidence that the covid have originated from a lab leak in wuhan, china, but not the result of a man-made bio weapon. "the wall street journal" was the first to report this classified intelligence report given to the white house and key members of the congress yesterday. national security adviser sullivan was asked about this development. >> did the coronavirus pandemic start in a lab? is that what you believe now? >> dana, there is variety of views in the intelligence community. some elements reached conclusions. a number of them said they don't have the information to be sure. president biden has directed

repeatedly every element of the intelligence community to put effort and resources behind getting to the bottom of the question and a thing in the "the wall street journal report" which i can't confirm or deny but the reference to energy department, president biden requested that the national labs part of the department of energy be brought in to the assessment to put every tool at use to be able to figure out what happened here and if we gain any further insight or information we'll share the with congress and the american people. there is not an answer from the intelligence community on this question. >> a source tells nbc news the report is quote not being viewed as hugely significant among the intelligence community due to interagency disagreements about covid's origins. in a statement sent to nbc the department of energy said it

continues to support the thorough, careful and objective work of the intelligence professionals in investigating the origins of covid-19s as the president directed. china denied that covid originated from a lab leak. meanwhile house republicans have kicked off their investigations into the origins of the pandemic. a spokesperson said the committee is reviewing the classified information provided. >> you know, this has been an ongoing debate for sometime. there was -- the energy department said they have low confidence and may be a lab leak. jen, you have other agencies -- four intel agencies think it spread naturally. fbi thinks lab leak with moderate confidence. none think it was part of a

chinese bio weapon program. he is saying the dni will release what information it can soon. we have said it here. tom cotton was attacked by a newspaper for talking about a lab leak. we said we don't know. maybe it was. maybe it wasn't. the problem is that the chinese -- talk to matt pottinger about this. the chinese haven't been cooperating since december of 2019. >> right. that's exactly the problem. there's a report back in 2021 where the same intelligence agencies had similar conclusions. what is new as you just noted is the department of energy because they have the national labs and president biden asked them to use the resources to look into it did conclude with low confidence. but the fbi has -- was -- had

moderate confidence in 2021 and still has that today. not a ton changed. the reason as you just alluded to is because the chinese are not providing data and originated there and the w.h.o., the world health organization asked them to do that. the biden administration. countless european countries. until they do that and i doubt they ever will it will be very difficult even for the intelligence agencies in the united states or any other country to have a real conclusion. not insignificant the department of energy but we don't really know. >> right. highlights the divide between u.s. government agencies as to what happened here. there are some who believe they have low or moderate confidence that it was man-made or still from nature. from animal to human transmission. perhaps connected to wuhan wet

market. but certainly what this does do is muddy the waters on the origins of covid which is a topic of the republicans in the house said to zero in on and adds tension to the ongoing relationship between washington and beijing. >> right. the thing is, mika, not cooperating since december of 2019. donald trump said he had a great relationship with xi and xi cooperating completely aen the people of the u.s. could count on china to cooperate. they haven't since december of to -- 2019 and goes before that. matt pottinger and others warning of what was coming. we don't know.

i just do want to ask this simple question which is, if it originated in a wet market why wouldn't the chinese tell us? seems they have more to worry about if it originated in a lab. if it originated just in a wet market you would think the chinese would be the first to come forward with that. they are not talking. >> the whole thing is a little -- we'll continue to fol throw this. the u.s. warning china of serious consequences if it provides lethal military aid to russia to use against ukraine. nbc news correspondent erin mclaughlin is in kyiv with the latest. >> reporter: russia targeting ukraine with new drone strikes as fighting rages on in the east. heavy shelling killing multiple people over the weekend as russian forces push into

bakhmut. new intelligence suggests china's considering supplying russia with artillery and ammunition. according to three u.s. officials familiar with the matter. the white house warning china. >> the weapons would be used for the slaughter of people in ukraine. >> reporter: just last week beijing put forward a 12-point peace plan with few details but calling on both ukraine and russia to de-escalate the war. in an interview with abc president biden was skeptical. >> i've seen nothing in the plan that would indicate that there is something that would be beneficial to anyone other than russia. >> reporter: vladimir putin lashing out at the west in an interview that aired sunday telling russian state tv the west has one goal. to disband the former soviet union adding that russia needs

to take into account nato's nuclear capabilities. president zelenskyy saying that putin will be killed by his own inner circle saying the predators will devour a predator. on sunday zelenskyy vowed to liberate crimea and return the ukrainian flag to every corner of ukraine. is it realistic for ukraine to take back crimea? >> translator: it is realistic in a year russia would lose dozens of thousands of its troops. that's when i'm asked if something is realistic i say undoubtedly. >> a couple things here i think are fascinating. the psychological ops saying that zelenskyy will be killed

from the inside. this is what they have been doing from the beginning of the war outplaying a kgb agent from the very beginning on information warfare, psy-ops. mike, vladimir putin said that the west's goal is to disband the soviet union. that happened when i was in law school. i graduated law school and the soviet union was disbanded so i'm not sure what world vladimir putin has been living in over the past 30 years but it is really something. let's get to china for a second. we tried to warn, we americans and those in the west tried to warn russia. don't invade ukraine. this is going to end very, very badly for you. putin did not listen. is xi going to make yet another

colossal miscalculation like he has over the past three, four years. wreck the economy and help the former soviet union, as putin would say help russia and hurt the economy more and straining ties in europe and throughout the west? japan with the top economies on the planet. >> joe, last week in the special you talked to the virtually the american war cabinet and i think if you talked to the american war cabinet or the american intelligence culture in washington, d.c. you would get an answer that the wuhan lab and contributing weapons to russia in the war against ukraine are kind of floating in the same lane. this is an autocratic culture in china.

president xi is not surrounded by people that say but on the other hand. you have a country sort of immersed in their own power and in love with their own power. delivering weapons or covering up what happened in the wuhan lab. the question to ask ourselves, if indeed they provide a lethal weaponry to russia, to wage war against ukraine more skillfully, if the wuhan lab is responsible for basically killing more than a million americans through the release of covid, what is our answer? do we declare war on them? certainly not. what do we do against china to give weapons to russia or the cover-up of what may have happened in the wuhan lab?

what do we do? i don't know that anybody has the answer to that. >> yeah. >> as for western coalition help for ukraine president volodymyr zelenskyy is renewing the call for fighter jets but in an interview on friday president biden ruled out providing f-16s quote for now. >> a very important caveat. >> joining us is representative jason crow of colorado. he served into deployments and called for jets to be provided to ukraine. so let's start there. you say the jets need to go now. why? >> well, we know that ukraine has to retake seized territory for them to win. they need the momentum and go on the offensive. the rurp military is decimated.

to do that they need to fight the type of warfare we fight and training them to fight right now in the training grounds of europe. combine warfare and what that requires is to synchronize long range military fire with units and establish an air cap. right now they don't have air superiority and the fighter platforms to establish that. we need to provide them the equipment, us or nato allies, with the equipment necessary to fight the warfare we train them to fight. >> congressman, you signed a bipartisan letter. i love to underline the fact that republicans and democrats have been working about. we talk about that in the senate where mitch mcconnell stood shoulder to shoulder with president biden. there's outliers. in the house there's remarks.

it was heartening at least for me a former reagan guy who believes that we should always push back as a country against russian aggression. it was good to see republicans follow joe biden to kyiv the next day and say what you're saying which is not only do we support you, mr. president, we think you should get the jets. talk about how there are some republicans in the house that you have been able to work with who agree with you that we can't allow russian aggression to ever win. >> joe, it is not just some republicans in the house. it is the majority of mr. ins. i took a trip to brussels an ento munich for the nato security conference and the parliamentary assembly and a trip mainly with my republican colleagues. the vast, vast majority of

members of the house know what's going on and understand foreign policy, national security. friends of mine. on the intelligence committee with. and sober and clear eyed about it. there's a couple dozen members of the house that don't know what they talk about that want to get as many retweets as possible. say inflammatory things and not worth to focusing own them. so i can tell you with full confidence that with the people i hang out and the people engaged on this issue politics does end at the water's edge. we represent this country. we understand what we need to do to help ukraine fight and win. >> good morning. jonathan lemire. want your take on china perhaps helping russia in its war effort. some analysts, some suggest

maybe this is china to give -- prop up putin enough to maintain the status quo. others suggest that if china is all in it could change the war. what do you think china's up to and why now? >> china and more specifically president xi wants to see the united states and nato lose. they want to see ukraine lose. so they're willing to do what's necessary to do that although staying on the sidelines. they are thinking about weighing in. we know that. that's public now. they are putting the pieces in place to make that move. that's why releasing this information and putting the diplomatic pressure on china that the administration and congress is putting on china is essential. they have to understand there's

substantial costs. they want to weaken nato and the united states and show a strong military and a large country with take by force a smaller country. that's what president xi wants to do with taiwan. this is a proxy to accomplish in the south china sea. >> congressman jason crow, thank you as always for coming on the show this morning. the war in ukraine is a topic of disagreement between republican candidates. this is what florida governor desantis said last week about the potential threat from russia followed by what former vice president mike pence said in response. >> the fear of kind of russia going into nato countries and

steamrolling, that is not close to happening. i think they are a third rate military power. i think they suffered tremendous, tremendous losses. i got to think that the people in russia are probably disapproving of what's going on and can't speak up about it. so i think russia has been really, really wounded here and i don't think that they are the same threat to our country even though they're hostile, i don't think they're on the same level as china. >> russian tanks are in georgia. russian military has taken over crimea. now russian aggression one year in the making launched a war that displaced millions and cost 300,000 lives. many more thousands wounded and injured. the right approach to this moment in history with renewed russian aggression in eastern european is strength. american strength and calling on the allies to continue to meet

the obligations. >> do you think ron desantis's characteristic is wrong? >> anyone that thinks that vladimir putin will stop at ukraine is wrong. >> okay. first your thoughts, joe? >> i have got to say, this is the mistake that so republicans are making that want to run for president. they play small ball. ron desantis is going for the most extreme small part of the republican party. just call vladimir putin what he is. a war criminal. he is a threat not only to ukraine. he is a threat to all of europe one way or the other. that's where most of the republican party is. that's where republicans in the senate are. that's where we heard from jason crow where the republicans in the house are. he doesn't have to chase donald trump down every rabbit hole that leads him to the land of stupid. all right?

he just doesn't have to do it. he can stay away because mike pence's position while it won't be popular with insurrectionists, weirdos and freaks. >> they wanted to kill him. i don't think they get along well. ali vital i joins us now. she's got new reporting on how governor desantis is ramping up preparation for a potential presidential run. >> reporter: that's right. we will be hearing and seeing more of governor ron desantis in the coming days and weeks because this shadow campaign period is hitting the next stride. for desantis he is starting to have a physically present posture. he is going to new york and chicago and philadelphia. that's going to continue to ramp upstarting to visit various

republican state parties in texas, alabama and then california in the coming weeks. it is part of technically a book tour that comes out tomorrow but we know what that kind of a book tour often signals which is the potential for the presidential run. talking about this unofficial part of the republican campaign what's clear is a lot of people view this as a two-man race with other names at the bottom. it looks like it's trump and desantis but the problem as a front-runner especially as desantis untested nationally is you have of the prove it. in addition to the book tour and the stops, this weekend a donor con fab in palm beach talking to donors who have been in his corp.er in the past and what

advisers say desantis is trying to do is to focus on the florida legislative session as a blueprint what he could donationally and that june is an unofficially time for him. >> all right. >> fascinating. >> thank you so much for your reporting this morning. >> by the way, great reporting. >> oh yeah. >> jonathan lemire, did you notice something else? >> wearing green. >> more celtics green. >> first place celtics green. >> what are you doing? you wear -- >> i know. >> tarheel blue. >> a mess. >> celtics. great win. bruins this weekend. even the goalie scored a goal. but one quick note on desantis. also deliberate choice this week. that donor con fab instead of

c-pac. it's this week in washington. trump and nikki haley will be there. this is the strategy to avoid the gatherings. make others come to him. the alternative to trump. >> it's gotten crazier. they pick in the past ron paul for years and then rand paul for the candidate of choice. if you are ron desantis you are the only person that won big in 2022. you won a land slide. you are in a political solar system. you don't need to go where trump is and scratch and claw with everybody else. talk to the big money donors. it is a smart move. i think the bigger question is,

is his best play acting like he is going to run in '24? raising the money? finishing out the term and running in '28 or is this his time? barack obama knew 2008 was his time. if you wait four year it is window closes. jfk said when you see blue sky fly to it. and that's exactly why jfk ran in 1960. maybe desantis thinks there's blue sky now. and it won't be around four years from now. >> as for president biden he may not have announced the re-election run yet but first lady dr. jill biden said he is ready to run. >> he says he's not done. he's not finished what he started and that's what's

important. look at all that joe has done. he brought us out of the chaos and he did that. he was elected because people wanted steady leadership and i think they saw that in joe and they saw his character. >> is all that's left at this point is to figure out a time and place for the announcement. >> pretty much. >> pretty much. >> i love it. let's bring in mark libovitz. >> he is known as mr. steady. >> yes. steady as he goes. also with it is jonathan martin with new reporting on private concerns from lingering from senior democrats about biden's age and, mark, you argue this in the new piece.

quote, there has to be one good challenger x out there from the party's supposed deep bench. right? someone when's compelling, formidable and younger than 65, someone who would be unfailingly gracious to biden and his career even while trying to end it. challenger x could earn goodwill by campaigning with class and gratitude to biden. she could simply nod and shrug in response to the various admonitions emphasized her own credentials and the grave threat posed by trump, ron desantis or any other republican. to help and support the president if primary voters nominated him again. a she? >> he or she could do that. >> she. >> but the argument that i

usually hear from democrats are he beat trump. if the other people run against trump, trump would have beat them in michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. so there's -- is there not a stronger argument in the democratic primary than i beat trump? what beats that argument? >> well, what i think that sort of voters get to divide that. he beat trump in 2020. the crowning achievement of joe biden's career. what i'm arguing is that he was running as a bridge in 2020. at what point in the 80s does this become a bridge too far? and the she that you are mentioning before, i was mentioning gretchen whitmer.

that explains the pronoun. i don't favor anyone here. democrats have a unique situation. there's a tradition over the last 30 year that is presidential incumbents don't get primaried. it is harmful to the incumbent. but ultimately democrats with biden have a unique situation with an incredible disconnect between the gratitude that democrats have for biden, the career and how many don't want him to run. this is over 50, some 60%. >> unbelievable. >> it is the age question and uncomfortable to talk about but a huge issue for most democrats. >> i don't know if it should be. age is what it is and we keep telling people what it is when we shouldn't be. there are some people at their best in their 80s.

my mom was using a chain saw and doing the best work in her 80s. >> nancy pelosi doing a good job. >> different type. >> without a chain saw. jonathan martin, what i find fascinating about biden is most underestimated guy i have seen in my life. he loses iowa and new hampshire. mocked and ridiculed. on twitter. >> going to do this again? >> going to get destroyed. wins the presidency. they worry about the debates. wins the debates. they worry about 2020. wins 2020. >> right. >> worry about legislation. trying to deal with the republicans. ole man. from a different era. then we heard it about 2022. and then -- i hear it every three days. democrats whine after the

historic midterm. shows up in kyiv. >> looking for problems. >> you hear this all the time. >> it's extraordinary. why he has a chip on the shoulder is because he feels like 2019 he's been underestimate ds. primary, midterms. the whole chronology speaks for itself. yeah. he has an obvious motivation to defy the critics. i think if it wasn't for that midterm performance there would be a public chorus of democrats calling biden not to run again. because of the wins on capitol hill most of the concerns are now in the shadows of back room quotes and off the record conversations over drinks but

people look to 2026 and saying can we have a president in the 80s to serve a full term? how do we know in a respectful, cautious way? it is not easy in part because if you don't nominate biden who do you nominate? then the questions about the vp and others to run. it is a minefield for the party. >> mark, the last time a sitting democratic president had a challenge was 1968. lyndon johnson. a significant issue that his challenges raised called the war in vietnam. what issue would they raise against joe biden? >> very diplomatically talk around the age issue. i think -- look. there are two larger thematic things that a democrat could run on.

one is freedom and the other is choice. democrats deserve a choice to have the freedom to vote for a president that most of them don't want to see running again. that is what we talk about here. not talking about someone out to destroy joe biden. we are out looking for someone, i think democrats are looking for someone to give aal attorneytive. i completely get why a primary challenge is to be resisted if you are joe biden or in the white house or whatever. however, i think that -- sorry. i also think that this is a time for fresh thinking. the age issue makes for an exten waiting circumstance that the democrats have been ignoring and should deal with. >> jonathan, talk about the

concerns about joe biden. regarding him surviving the term intact. people saying not that it maybe -- he doesn't pass away but spend the last year or two like woodrow wilson. we hear the concerns and about kamala harris not being a popular vice president and that republicans are going to use that against biden in the 2024 race. >> right. no. that's exactly right. you can sort of see the talking points being devised right now by the republicans which is to say that the choice is not going to be biden or gop candidate "x" but folks, voting for the vp kamala harris because the president is not able to serve a full four-year term. the talking points are coming and why democrats are certainly

alarmed right now. i think that biden is brushing this often. i'm skeptical there's a serious democratic challenger. what do democrats do if by this fall it is clear that trump is not the republican nominee? that's the only scenario i see that democrats have about biden. if trump is so damaged and it is not trump, do democrats wonder, hey, should we moderate any 2-year-old for the party or open it up for a primary? how will they know that trump is damaged? at what point does that conversation take place? could be too late in the cycle. >> yeah. it is going to be fascinating. last week we showed polls that

showed more democrats want joe biden to run for president than republicans who want donald trump. >> there you go. questions about there. i don't think there's a challenger to biden/harris. they will be the ticket. if trump gets out of the race which i don't see him doing right now maybe that changes things but if not i think we have got a re-run of the 2020 matchup. >> thank you both for coming on. >> steady as he goes. still ahead on "morning joe," what president biden is saying about not visiting the site of the toxic train derailment in ohio as republicans ramp up criticism of his administration. more layoffs at twitter. and major league baseball has new rules in place this season.

what it means for spring training and potentially the regular season. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back.

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we were there two hours after the train went down. two hours. i've spoken with every major figure in both pennsylvania and in ohio. and so the idea that we're not engaged is just simply not there. and initially there was not a request for me to go out even before i was heading over to kyiv so i'm keeping very close tabs on it. we are doing all we can. >> president biden explaining why for now he won't be visiting a town where a norfolk southern train derailed spilling toxic chemicals three weeks ago.

nbc correspondent george solis is there with the latest. >> reporter: this morning the environmental protection agency is allowing norfolk southern to renew train shipments. >> we know it is far better to have it safely stored in a monitored disposal facility than remain here any longer than necessary. >> reporter: a new facility receiving the waste is east liverpool, ohio. >> you can see it from my backyard. it's definitely a concern. >> reporter: the announcement days after officials in texas and michigan said they were not warned. >> not knowing that they're coming, which they way they are coming, how safe the trucks are that are coming is something

that has got us all very, very irritated. >> in east palestine, concerns remain ram pant after dangerous fumes spread across the community and beyond. now federal teams are on the ground to interview residents about the symptoms and concerns. >> eyes burning, sneezing. >> reporter: some residents have been diagnosed with bronchitis and other conditions that they suspect are linked to chemical exposure. the commune is crocking up on air filters and free bottled water. what does that tell you? >> people need help. >> it is needed. >> reporter: the disaster having a ripple effect on many local businesses. >> businesses that were shut down. lost days of income. just so it's not the health

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"wall street journal" editorial board has a recent piece entitled "a bad start for the gop in 2023" and in it the board writes in part, being the opposition party can have its political advantages but if republicans are hoping for victory next year they might want to look around. montana senator jon tester said that he'll run for re-election in 2024. no open race there to take the

state and the senate majority. the point is that the country is closely divided be political control decided by inches. if republicans want to win independents, they have slightly more than a year to settle on a better message and corecruit quality candidates yet the warning of the washout of november does not seem to have reached all presiblgts. parties in arizona and michigan that could be decisive in 2024 are a mess of division and disarray. none of this bodes well for the party nominating a presidential winner in 2024 or winning either house in congress. >> you know, again -- >> this is the -- >> i'm tired. >> you will do it again. >> i will try to push the rock. >> i don't think you -- >> to the top. >> no matter how many times you say it.

lose, lose, lose, lose, lose. and lose. >> so say that because they know they lost in 2017, 2018, 2019 -- >> i just did it for you in shorthand. >> lost in 2021, 2022. they know they lost in 2023. >> they don't see it. >> jen psaki, michigan and arizona, what do they do? appoint people to run the parties that are what i was calling -- >> what in the world? >> i said democrats could win because democrats could win, because they're insurrectionists, weirdos and freaks. they're actually finding people who were bigger insurrectionists, bigger weirdos, bigger freaks to run their parties and they have mtg. they have this woman with three

initials from north georgia who's talking about civil war. >> like succession. >> i know they think, oh, this is going to be great on the podcast today. they're going to love me on freak tv. this destroys them every day. i've been warning my former party every day for years. this is hurting you. they keep losing. they're going to lose in 2024. where are the grownups in that party? >> they're not winning elections within the primaries and they're not winning elections to run the parties in their states. they are having fund-raising challenges, the michigan republican party. they have lost donors. they have put somebody in charge of the republican party in the state there who is even far more

extreme than the people who lost in the november elections. it's pursuing a losing strategy and they know it's a losing strategy to satisfy an element of twitter and an element of the right wing. if you're the democratic parties in michigan and arizona, states that, by the way, will always be swing states, because there are many republicans, independents democrats. they are states that will always be that way. they're thinking, wow, we're going to fund raise and nominate normal candidates who represent the interest of our state, and on the other side we don't have a competitor like in the past. i don't understand. i can't explain the strategy for why they are putting some of these people in charge. it's crazy. coming up, the latest inflation numbers came up hot on friday and wall street ended with its worst week of the year. d with its worst week of the year.

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donald trump visited east palestine, the site of the recent train derailment, because trump usually tries to make himself look better by standing next to a train wreck. the train that derailed was carrying highly toxic vinyl chloride, which is something i think trump recommended as a cure for covid. and while visiting the disaster site, trump also gave out bottles of trump brand water. said residents, thanks, but we'd rather drink the toxic train water. >> welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. we have a lot to get to this hour, including new concerns that china will be supplying russia with artillery and ammunition to continue the

fighting in ukraine. but is russia's underwhelming war effort? twitter laid off 10% of its workforce over the weekend. andrew ross sorkin will join us in a moment with the latest. and what do men under 30, connecticut, cheese and barney the dinosaur have in common? they're all part of the latest installment of brand up, brand down with donny deutsch. do you remember barney? >> did you not like barney? >> no, i did not like barney. >> did you let your kids watch barney? >> no.

it drove me crazy. does that song not drive you crazy? >> you know i have it on a loop. that's how i go to bed at night. >> lemire, do you even know the barney song? >> i'm not going to sing it, but yes. my kids missed the barney window. mike barnicle, though, dresses in purple most days in tribute. >> monday, wednesday, friday. >> i found it triggering not just the song, but the whatever it is. is he a dinosaur? awful. just awful. >> okay. we get it. >> just terrible. our kids are cute, but they don't need to be tortured with that terrible purple monstrosity. >> okay. so lemire, what do your kids

watch? i have 87 kids. i've been through everything. there are a couple of constants through time. like, all my boys love "star wars." >> we're talking little, little kids, joe. >> i know. >> remember the wiggles? >> yeah. we had the wiggles. >> that was troubling as well. >> different generation had teletu teletubbies. reverend jerry falwell said it promoted a gay lifestyle, i think it was. we had little einstein. the wiggles were awesome. i think i got one of them following me on twitter. >> that's big.

>> kate would be humiliated. they all watched the wiggles. it was all very cool, i guess. lemire, what do your kids, what's been the big thing over the past decade? >> sesame street remains big. >> that's awesome. >> i could do a reasonable cookie monster impersonation. paw patrol is a big one my kids were really into. that's a newer thing. octonauts is another. those are the shows they grew up with. truthfully, a lot of sports. >> i like this. sesame street, the muppets treat people like human beings, while barney and the wiggles treat children like imbeciles.

>> you're the wrong person to talk about this, because your parents, not only did you not get to see cartoons, but you had to watch dr. zhivago. >> we did world issues. >> since we're talking about this, i've got a problem with a show that i've been watching. so mika and i -- i'm a massive fan of harrison ford. we're watching "1923" and helen mirren, my god. we love "1923." amazing stuff. >> what's your problem? with harrison ford, none, you

have none. >> none. i love harrison ford. we loved 1883. loved it even though it was grim and gruesome and everybody died at the end. >> spoiler. >> and then 1923 is awesome but we're waiting all season for spencer to get home, all season. >> bingo. >> all season. by the way, let me tell you something, that spencer not only never gets home, he's like 15 miles like from where he was shooting at the beginning. i said, wait, you made me go through an entire season to watch my favorite character not get any closer to wyoming and start kicking ass against the bad guys. >> watch your language. >> that's why we're watching the

show. we want him to get back and avenge all the duttons. they don't even let him off the continent! >> joe you are me on this. i feel exactly the same way. last night was outrageous. i was so angry that spencer's on the boat, a second boat, a third boat and he gets arrested on the boat and gets separated from his wife on the boat. come on, stop the soap opera stuff. get him to montana and let him kill these guys. >> i know a lot of people who haven't started 1923 are going to be very angry. we're saving you a lot of pain. it's an awesome series. >> i'm getting a lot of texts about this. >> i cannot say enough about how great harrison ford is. >> helen mirren.

it's an incredible series, mike, but i'm with you. like, what's going on? these are these two characters that you're so invested in. it would be one thing if they get halfway across the atlantic, at least. >> they haven't even gotten them to london yet. i mean, come on. i want them in butte, montana, avenging what's happening to his family. >> all right. >> by the way, did we tell you, the fact we're talking about 1923 this much means we love 1923. >> can you validate i told you they would never get home? >> you warned me early on. she said, they're never going to let spencer get home. >> another letter being written to spencer. >> they never get home. >> you have no idea how it gets there, it makes no sense. i'm sorry, they need to stop

with that. >> we should have just watched seinfeld episodes together for like a couple of months. >> i love seinfeld. back to the dinosaur, what was the show we were talking about in the beginning? >> barney. >> back to barney. >> no, no, no. you've done enough on barney. >> i don't know if i have. it's really a serious issue if you think about a whole generation of children listening to that song over and over again. children are not being treated like imbeciles. they're doing something. no, no. make it stop. >> i love it. >> i'm going to have to leave. >> sing it. >> i love it.

1923 is great. i've got to tell you the surprise. have you been watching "shrinking"? >> yes. harrison ford, by the way, he's 80 years of age. he's fantastic. >> still. >> indiana jones 5 is coming up. >> i've got to say "shrinking" i've been all in on harrison ford since the beginning from 1977. he's so awesome. i will say his acting in "shrinking" as good as i've seen. there's a subtlety. there's just an absolute beauty to -- >> i think he's in his prime. >> i actually do think this is harrison ford at his best. >> most beautiful acting ever. >> i guess it's 11 after. should we talk baseball or get

to the news? the pitch count is amazing. we'll get to this later, but the pitch count clock is perfect. >> okay. it's awesome. it's pitch perfect. how long do i have to wait, though, for the next season of 1923? >> you have to wait a long time. he won't get home. >> he's amazing. i didn't know this. wait, lemire hasn't watched 1923. did you know spencer's wife in the show was actually in "the politician." i was like, who is this great actress? then she's in "the politician." >> is she? >> she was. she was the lead character's girlfriend. >> we get to the news now. >> here we are.

it's 9:12. here's mika with the news. >> sometimes the fourth hour goes off the rails, but we get back on track now. the fighting in ukraine continues. >> but when it does go off the rails, we give you trump water. >> no thank you. >> russia hit lines in the ukraine's east and south. the city of bakhmut continues to see some of the war's most brutal fighting. on saturday, russia's wagner group claimed it captured a nearby village, only to have that challenged by ukrainian forces. there have been 14 separate clashes in bakhmut alone as russian forces attempt to surround the area.

the white house is now warning china about the potential consequences of providing military aid to russia to use against ukraine. u.s. intelligence suggests that china is considering sending artillery and ammunition to russia. those concerns were compounded last week when china's top diplomat traveled to moscow for a face-to-face meeting with russian president vladimir putin. here is what national security advisor jake sullivan had to say yesterday. >> i don't think it is in china's interest to do this. i think it would alienate them and put them four square into the center of responsibility for the kinds of war crimes and bombardments of civilians and atrocities that the russians are committing in ukraine.

>> is china really this stupid? i don't think they are. as stupid as they've been over the past four or five years, i just can't help but think that maybe they're just positioning russia. we're going to save face here for you. we're going to help you out here, putin. you've humiliated yourself. we're going to help out. we're going to start pushing a peace deal. we're going to say that we're standing shoulder to shoulder with you when, in fact, we're going to force you to settle this thing behind the scenes to try to save face for you. the consequences of them starting to send weapons does two things. first of all, it damages china economically. it damages their relationship with europe, damages their relationship with the united states, it damages their relationship with japan, australia, a lot of first world nations. their economy is not doing that well. the second thing it does is, it allows us to say if china is

sending weapons, we're going to send f-16s. if china is sending russia more weapons, we're going to send more artillery and advanced weapons systems. if china is in this thing, we're going to go all in. >> if china were to go all in, it would be a significant escalation on both sides. but i think there is a sense this is, to your point, at least a possibility that china is doing this to allow putin to save face, to prop him up just enough that he's able to end this conflict while holding onto power, which allows the status quo to continue in the region. it's not in china's interest if russia were to go down in flames entirely here and destabilize the entire eurasia area.

if china were to step in, that would allow them to really make russia subservient to beijing and make them a junior partner in that part of the world and allow putin to stay in power, but be subject to xi jinping's wishes. the head of the cia says russia's struggles in ukraine are causing china to second guess its own possible plans for a different invasion. in an interview with cbs news yesterday cia director william burns spoke about how the u.s. is responding to chinese president xi jinping's often talked about goal of reunifying mainland china and the neighboring island of taiwan. >> we need to take very seriously xi's ambitions with regard to ultimately controlling taiwan. that doesn't, however, in our view, mean that a military conflict is inevitable.

we do know, as has been made public, that president has instructed the pla, the chinese military leadership, to be ready by 2027 to invade taiwan. our judgment is that xi has doubts today over whether they could accomplish that invasion. i think as they've looked at putin's experience in ukraine, it's probably reenforced some of those doubts as well. >> one of the fascinating things i learned while interviewing what mike allen called the war cabinet, was the calculated decision made by joe biden and his administration to leak information early on, intel they would have never leaked in past wars, leak intel about russia to tell putin we know what you're doing. then you've seen with zelenskyy

this brilliant use of psyops. zelenskyy saying, yes, we all know vladimir putin is going to end up being assassinated by somebody in his inner circle, again, getting in their head. here we have a cia chief basically feeding out intel they have in china. it's a brilliant maneuver. i've got to say they've played it pitch perfect. >> they continue to play it pitch perfect, especially with the leaks,but injecting even more paranoia into putin than he already lives with each and every day. but the leaks that have now begun about china and china's immediate future linked more to russia. is russia more important to

china than the vast european economic market? those two things causing the chinese no matter how autocratic and isolated they are, president xi, no matter how isolated they are, they're going to be thinking about what do the americans really know about our economic future with regard to the european markets. >> president zelenskyy predicted putin will be killed by his own inner circle, making that blunt statement in a recently released ukrainian documentary, saying, quote, the predators will devour a predator. joining us now, democratic congressman jake audiocassette clos of massachusetts. he just returned from taiwan where he met with the taiwanese president. let's start with the concern about china aiding russia. what do you make of those recent

concerns? >> good morning. thanks for having me on. china would be aiding and abetting war crimes were they to provide weapons to russia. i think the biden administration is doing the right thing by selectively leaking intelligence proactively and using that to warn china there will be accountability should they do so. i think we also need to emphasize that india is not blameless either. india has increased by several orders of magnitude its importation of russian oil over the last year, putting hard currency directly into the kremlin's coffers. >> let's hear a little more about your trip to taiwan and the concerns they have about potential china aggression, whether in the near or long term. >> with china's increased aggression, it's important that

we send a message that the united states is going to stand with democracy the world over. on the security front, the taiwanese are prepared. they are pragmatic and they are not panicked. they do need us to expedite our arms sales to taiwan. we also need to work with them on energy security. right now we've got a strategy with taiwan called the porcupine strategy where we arm them to the teeth with asymmetric weapons to allow them to fight off an invasion from a bigger power. i asked if he bought into the strategy, he said yes, but remember, a porcupine can't be beaten, it can be starved. we've got to work with them on energy independence for the island. the second is on semiconductors.

the plans for implementing the chips act was pitch perfect. >> the discussion about china recently even today revolves around what's china going to do with regard to providing weapons systems to russia. what are china's vulnerabilities, economically, demographically and politically? >> the most important vulnerability china has right now is it's going to get old before it gets rich. the order of events over the last century and a half for developing nations has been that they increase their per capita income and then their deoh my god fee starts to gray. china is getting gray, getting older before it's achieved higher per capita incomes.

that is a massive liability for the chinese communist party. >> thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. good to have you on. now to this. in a new round of layoffs, 200 twitter employees were reportedly forced out of their positions over the weekend. the layoffs come after the company made it difficult for its employees to communicate with each other last week due to their internal messaging service being taken offline. the social media platform now has a workforce of less than 2,000 people. that's down from 7500 when elon musk took over in october. this comes as the majority of u.s. companies are going in the opposite direction. they are improving and increasing hiring, saying the demand for employees is higher than ever. >> let's bring in andrew ross

sorkin. we will not ask him about shrinking or 1923. >> henry winkler is on your side. >> what does he say about barney? >> he didn't say anything about barney. but he did say so agree with you on the subject of spencer. it's great that we're talking about it, because if we're talking about it, it means it's a great tv show. 1923 is a great tv show even though i wanted to bang my head against the wall when the season ended last night. andrew, instead of talking about twitter cuts, because wall street is most likely going to look at this positively. this guy is making twitter smaller, leaner, meaner, and if it doesn't melt down, he'll ultimately be rewarded by it. i was thrown off by elon musk this morning siding with the dill bert guy, whose exact quote was, white people should stay

away from black people. the dill bert guy just went out of his way to make racially not insensitive, racially offensive remarks. this would have been racist in 1955. this would have gotten you in trouble on tv any time over the past 50-60 years if you had said these comments. but elon musk is siding with him? it's a scratch here, it's a nick there. all of this adds up against elon musk, doesn't it? >> i think that elon musk has tried to create this sort of anti- -- i agree with you about this being about as racist as anything you could say, but there has been this woke

backlash/anti-woke thing. i think that is what elon musk has sort of hung his hat on and, at least over the last year, moved towards in terms of building a reputation. >> i get that, andrew. we understand. this is a silicon valley thing. i totally get it that there are some of the most creative, inventive people in silicon valley. >> i think it's indefensible, joe. i don't understand it. >> what i'm saying is that they're anti-woke. i completely get it. they're really libertarian. a lot of the leaders in silicon valley are. but, like you said, for elon musk, this isn't a close call. this isn't about wokism. this is just about old fashioned racism. i just don't get it. >> not only do i not get it from a moral perspective because it makes no sense to defend the

position of the dilbert creator in any way, but when you think about elon musk, the owner of twitter, a business that is dependent largely on advertising, and we've seen so many advertisers leave the platform. it just seems like another example of a situation where, if you're an advertiser, you look at who's owning twitter and the comments they're making and the comments and other things happening at twitter, i think you have to scratch your head and say do you want to support it financially. >> right. as far as protecting the flag goes, let's talk about the brand of tesla. again, this is part of a bigger question that i keep having, which i'm not saying it like he's not provoking me. i could just unplug twitter. it's still the best news feed i've ever seen. i get my news feed there. the thing is, andrew, i think

i've told you this before, i'm not a car guy, but i have people coming up to me -- >> i know where you're going. >> you got to get a tesla. joe, you need a tesla. you're going to love this car. it's so innovative. that's completely stopped. by the way, i don't have republicans, i don't have democrats, i don't have anybody saying you need to buy a tesla anymore. >> you're spot on. the question that i ask is, you're a public shareholder of tesla, it's a publicly traded company, you see what he says on twitter,whether he owns twitter or not, what he says on twitter. there was a period of time when him being on twitter was the ultimate advertisement for a tesla. as he has moved both politically and made comments that, as we just talked about, are pretty straight-up racist, i would say you have people who are now

saying do i want to own one of these cars? when you also think, by the way, about the political sides of all this, there was a sort of liberal group of people who believed in climate change who were very supportive of tesla. that has shifted. but part of the calculus, i think, going on in elon musk's mind is they're oversold to begin with. they can't even keep up with production half the time. maybe he thinks he can say these things and it doesn't hurt? i don't know. >> we were just talking about china, an aging china, a china that seems to keep making one mistake after another. they're sending two messages out right now. one is, europe, we want to reengage with you. we don't agree with what russia is doing, let's reengage, we can move beyond this. that's what they're saying behind closed doors. we're going to bring up a peace plan. then they're hanging out in

moscow telling putin, hey, we may deliver weapons. what is china going to do to get this economy kick started again? >> i think there's a combination of things they're trying to do. the question is whether the west is going to allow them. i'd also say this news over the weekend, the lab leak theory about covid and who's responsible for it creates another conundrum, which is to say not that u.s. businesses want to do business in china and i think china is going to try to open up in certain ways, but does the u.s. and the west allow it? if there is a pushback, is the west hurting itself at the same time? you could push only so much without hurting yourself, so trying to find that balance, i think, is actually going to be a

real conundrum. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," baseball is nearly back. this season brings new rules designed to speed up the pace of play. rules designed to speed up the pace of play

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the baseball season is about one month away. this year there's brand new rules designed to improve the pace of play. let's bring in sam brock, live from roger dean stadium, the

spring training home of the marlins and the cardinals. sam, bring us up to date. some crazy stuff this weekend with the pitch clock. everybody i talked to loves it. >> reporter: it's an overhaul when it comes to the rules. major league baseball was looking at this situation saying our average game was 3 hours and 4 minutes last year and the league-wide batting average was .243, the lowest it's been in a half century. we've got to do something. there's a pitch clock over my shoulder on either side of home plate. already this has been a major topic of conversation. the start of spring training is

usually reserved for tweaking swings and perfecting pickoffs. this year has already featured quite the curve ball. >> strike three! >> reporter: the red sox ended when a braves hitter wasn't considered ready on the pitch clock. >> the pitch clock, a lot of people early on talked about it affecting the pitcher. what you're seeing now is it affecting the hitter quite a bit. >> i feel like it's going to happen because it's the determination of the umpire. he doesn't really know when you're engaged unless he sees you looking at the pitcher. >> reporter: it's 30 seconds between batters and 15 seconds between pitchers. of all these new rule changes, which ones are coming up the most in conversation? >> the clock.

>> reporter: their whole routines are thrown off completely? >> yeah. >> reporter: enforcement is no walk in the park. fans reacting to the new rules. >> it will create more offense, more action. >> i like baseball. i like going out and making an all day thing. >> reporter: also, those giant bases designed to promote more steals. you led the major league in stolen bases. you're looking at this tag right now. >> it's nice and big. >> reporter: so you like this? >> yeah. hopefully it encourages more old school type baseball, more athleticism, more base stealing.

>> reporter: home plate will stay the same. it's worth noting there's a high degree of subjectivity when it comes to the pitch clock. the question is, did the pitcher start his motion or not. all he has to do is given the motion to not have a violation. you might have disagreements as to when that starts. hitters have to be engaged in the box and looking at the pitcher. when exactly does that moment occur? that is going to be up to the umpire. however you apply these rules, please do so consistently. when it's not applied consistently that's when you get really upset fans and teams. >> mike barnicle, that's the key. i know a lot of people were bragging about the whole thing

at the end of the super bowl. it was sort of a downer that a great super bowl ended that way. but if you're going to call that holding in the first preseason game, call it the last play of the super bowl, it's the same thing here. like, if this is how the world series ends, if this is the rule, well, it's the rule. you're always in on all of these conversations. you're always hearing about it as they're talking about these rule changes. what are some of the concerns that you heard as this was making its way through major league baseball and the owners? >> there were two. one is a pitcher and the clock and the start of his windup. if it occurred at 2 seconds left in the clock, does that mean he's violated the rule? the other is the 8-second batter ready rule. if you watch veterans, they will

look like they're just lolly gagging in the box. then they get ready. so does the umpire call it? we turn to politics now. we reported last week that the michigan republican party secretary of state is an election denier. she beat out a 10-candidate field, including a former attorney general endorsed by former president trump after

three rounds of contentious voting. she doubled down on her election denial claims during her acceptance speech. listen. >> we have to fight to secure our elections. it's the reason i did not concede after the 2024 election. why would i concede to a fraudulent process? >> she lost by 14 points. these republicans are all snowflakes. these election-denying republicans are all snowflakes. it's so fascinating that in 2020 we saw all those flags that said blank your feelings, vote trump, right? and then trump loses and people are like, you know what, his feelings are really bruised

right now, let's worry about his feelings for a little bit, he'll come around to it eventually. no. his feelings were hurt because he lost. these other republicans think that their feelings matter. no. it's the vote count that matters. that's why they keep losing elections. and how they could put in michigan, where by the way there was a total republican meltdown in 2022 electorally and they doubled down on their losing ways. it's incredible. >> you want to go through all the losses? >> i haven't said this before, but they lost in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022. she lost by 14 points in 2022. she's denying that loss. she's denying trump's loss. trump knew he lost. we've got the receipts now that

trump knew he lost. yet, they're doubling down on their losing ways. >> joining us now tom rogers, his latest piece authored with colorado senator tim worth warns that the threat of election denial is still real and very dangerous. >> tell us about it, tom. why is it so dangerous? >> well, first, we have made progress combatting election denialism, there's no doubt about it. the electoral count act was reformed. the federal and state courts have proved to be a real bulwark against election denialism. obviously in the major races, election denialism was defeated. at the local level, it is alive and well. 140 congressional districts voted for house members sent to congress in 2022 who are election deniers. as you mentioned, the gop

chairmanship is now being targeted by election deniers. it goes beyond michigan. it's arizona, kansas, idaho. all these failed secretary of state candidates who are election deniers are coming back in that kind of post. why does that matter? the state chairs have a lot to do with who is appointed to county election posts. at the local level is where we're seeing the problem. colorado, you have an election denier who is a county election official indicted on seven felony charges for election manipulation who is now the leading candidate for the colorado gop state chairmanship. so you have an awful lot of local issues that could wreak havoc. the secretary of state of colorado has indicated she believes 1 out of every 3

election official, honest people have been run out of office because of how rampant election denialism is at the local level. >> we know these politicians talking about election denialism claim there's voter fraud. we know there wasn't. we know 2022 was safe and fair. they prey on the trust of an electorate. both parties are less sure they can trust the results of an election. how do we get that back? >> that's exactly the problem. the issue is not that they can outright steal an election. we've seen a lot of safeguards. their role here is not a winning election strategy. this is ridiculous as a winning election strategy. this is about creating uncertainty, creating doubt, creating the notion that no one

should trust election results in hopes that by not certifying election results at the county level, by delaying the count, maybe they can hand this off to state legislatures in republican hands in swing states that could make decisions that could ultimately overturn elections. the only way to really combat that are organizations that senator worth, former majority leader again hart, former senator gary hart and a number of republicans as well are involved with at the local level getting local influencers to talk about this now, not after the 2024 elections, but to inoculate local communities against this kind of thing. >> tom rogers, thank you so much. mika, i continue to ask why do they keep doing things that are going to make them lose, right?

i guess the more troubling conclusion may be that they know they're going to lose. the party that has lost 7 of the last 8 presidential elections in the popular vote know that they're a shrinking minority. so maybe they know that and say we're going to lose anyway, so let's try to just rig the process from the ground up. >> that's really disturbing. coming up, donny deutsch back with a new edition of brand up, brand down. h a new edition d up, brand down ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah.

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this is one of my favorites. oh, boy. ♪ i exercise ♪ >> i can't. i can't. guys, look at that. that's not okay, okay? i'm just saying. there's a whole generation impacted by that. time for "brand up brand down" with donny deutsch. done any, please tell me that that is brand down. >> yes. we didn't plan this. i had barney as my first brand down. not necessarily my innate hatred for him that you have. he was on the year from 1999 to 2010. he's coming back. here is the disappointing thing. there used to be a guy, maybe a woman, dressed up in there. now it's cgi. if you're going to do it, be authentic. we don't want to see an animated version. >> we don't want to see either. >> we don't want to see either.

a bad day for barney on "morning joe." >> we've also got a brand down. good news for mike barnicle, brand down meant under 30. >> it's a little sobering. basically men under 30 seem to be very disengaged when it comes to intimacy, marriage. 65% of men under 30 are not married versus 34%, and 30% of men under 30 say they have not had sex, have not had intimacy in the last year. a lot of scientists think the reason is that men between the ages of 18-29, 78% say they use pornography on a consistent basis. it's a problem. it really is. >> this is a serious conversation about our young people in general, not just young men, but i think the impact of the onset over our lifetime of the internet and

then social media. but back up from social media to the internet, and everything being available to young kids, everything, that is a huge problem. >> people disengage. >> -- completely avoided and missed as a generation and society. so you see everything too early. you don't understand it. you become completely screen obsessed. you become turned in and you don't want to connect. add to that the pandemic. our young people are facing a crisis and that's not good news that you're reporting right there. >> no. yes, ma'am. let's go to our next brand up, and i agree with this one. selena gomez. >> selena gomez has the most followers than any woman on the planet on instagram, passed kiley generaler, 582 million people. she's only behind messi and

rinaldo, the two soccer stars. mike, i know number one for you is sell liam nah gomez. >> always has been. the next one is dieting. how can it be brand down when everybody wants to lose weight they gained over the holidays. >> nine out of ten people have been on diets. 40% of those people put on pounds. dieting is not working. for every diet, there's keto, this diet, this diet. >> we've got a brand up here for afternoon exercise which is good because all the mornings are spoken for. >> everybody usually exercises in the morning or the evening. what they're showing is if you exercise between 11:00 and 5:00, that there's a higher propensity to fight off heart disease. the middle of the day is the best time to exercise. don't ask me why. >> i know you're a huge cheese

guy. >> cheese for breakfast, lunch and dinner. cheese is up? >> actually, connecticut is up for cheese. if i said to you what state has the best cheese, wisconsin. in the u.s. cheese championship rehind the nathan's hot dog eating championship, a farm in connecticut won the best cheese. so it's no longer wisconsin. when you go to new canaan, to darien, think cheese. >> tell us what sleep cereal is. >> post is coming up with sleep cereal, cereal designed to eat at night. it's got minerals in it that pro pole melatonin creation, midnight blue berry -- a lot of people eat cereal at night. >> i do. >> smart marketing. let's position and go right at it. >> you can eat it with your teeth out. >> yes, i can. >> ooh. okay. speaking of, m&m's --

>> i want to say i'm learning a lot today. i like the fact that you're bringing information to the table. >> news you can use. that's all we do here. a woman named mary -- i can't remember her last name -- initials were m.m. she had a custom casket made -- you're kidding me. we're not showing it. >> it's a custom casket. >> everybody came dressed as m&ms. is the casket there? >> why not? >> what about peanut m&ms. >> there's the casket right there. that's what i call -- i don't know what i call that. a woman is buried -- >> we're not showing her. she is in the casket. >> there's a woman in there? >> i think it's a trend. you want to get married in a tom brady casket, whatever it is. >> stop him. wrap it

donnie, i complemented you way too soon. >> that was awful. that was awful. >> i tried. i do try. i never disappoint. >> jonathan lemire, try very hard to tell me what you're going to be looking at today, and we're going to try to forget that just happened. >> we'll put it back to you mika, debating whether your dislike for barney is more or less than dislike for the miami international airport. >> ooh, thanks, ron desantis. i have to think about this. i'm going to go with barney. >> wow. >> you guys, we should talk about this some day. i'm just going to close the show early. i think that donny has taken us to such a low level, it's just cheese ball central. do better maybe "brand up brand down" next time. that does it for us this

morning. lindsey reiser picks up the coverage right now. good to be you this monday morning. i'm lindsey reiser at msnbc headquarters in new york. tens of millions of americans from coast to coast are waking up to some kind of weather alert after know, wind, even tornadoes. overnight at least nine tornados touched down in oklahoma and kansas, flipping cars, damaging houses and tearing down power lines. some of the wind gusts topped 100 miles an hour. meanwhile, a turbo charged cold front dropped unheard of amounts of snow on southern california in the last few days. mt. balding near downtown los angeles recorded a whopping 3 feet. >> never seen this much snow come down this